USAGOLD Gold Discussion Forum Archive

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Golden LionheartFreegold#1457017/1/06; 00:09:59

@ The Invisible Hand.

I take it you do believe in "From each according to his ability and to each according to his needs" ??

USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.USAGOLD puts a world of gold at your fingertips...#1457027/1/06; 12:02:32">gold -- a global calling card
The Invisible HandTRUTH - the worst evil of socialism is that it rewards misery and punishes virtue#1457037/1/06; 14:30:30


Diogenes Laertes, "Lives of Eminent Philosophers", Pythagoras, Bk. VIII, 8

"When Leon the tyrant of Phlius asked Pythagoras who he was, he said, "a philosopher," and that he compared life to the Great Games, where some went to compete for the prize and others went with wares to sell, but the best as spectators; for similarly, in life, some grow up with servile natures, greedy for fame and gain, but the philosopher seeks for truth."


Aristotle, "Metaphysics", 980a

"All men by nature desire to know. [Pantes anthropoi tou eidenai oregontai phusei]. An indication of this is the delight we take in our senses; for even apart from their usefulness they are loved for themselves; and above "all others the sense of sight. For not only with a view to action, but even when we are not going to do anything, we prefer sight to almost everything else. The reason is that this, most of all the senses, makes us know and brings to light many differences between things. ",_to_each_according_to_his_need
In Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand described a car company that adopted this creed as its governing philosophy, and then fell into bankruptcy as the least productive workers used up the funds tending to their menial needs while the most productive workers were denied simple "luxuries" such as a phonograph player or a college education for their children.
excerpt from Ayn Rand, 1957, Atlas Shrugged, pp. 607-616

"there was something that happened at the plant where I worked for twenty years [The Twentieth Century Motor Company]. It was when the old man died and his heirs took over. […] They let us vote on it too, and everybody -- almost everybody -- voted for it […]. The plan was that everybody in the factory would work according to his ability, but would be paid according to his need. […] they made it sound like that anyone who'd oppose the plan was a child-killer at heart and less than a human being. […] Do you know how it worked, that plan, and what it did to people? Try pouring water into a tank where there is a pipe at the bottom draining it out faster than you pour it in and each bucket you bring breaks the pipe an inch wider, and the harder you work the more is demanded of you, and you stand slinging buckets forty hours a week, then forty-eight, then fifty-six -- for your neighbor's supper -- for his wife's operation -- for his child's measles -- for his mother's wheelchair -- for his uncle's shirt -- for his nephew's schooling -- for the baby next door -- for the baby to be born -- for anyone anywhere around you -- it's theirs to receive, from diapers to dentures -- and yours to work, […] with nothing to show for it but your sweat, with nothing in sight for you but their pleasure, for the whole of your life, without rest, without hope, without end […] From each according to his ability, to each according to his need […] It took just one meeting to discover that we had become beggars --rotten, whining, sniveling beggars, all of us, because no man could claim his pay as his rightful earning, he had no rights and no earnings, his work didn't belong to him, it belonged to "the family," and they owed him nothing in return, and the only claim he had on them was his "need" -- so he had to beg in public for relief from his needs, like any lousy moocher, listing all his troubles and miseries, down to his patched drawers and his wife's head colds, hoping that "the family" would throw him the alms. He had to claim miseries, because its miseries, not work, that had become the coin of the realm -- so it turned into a contest among six thousand panhandlers, each claiming that his need was worse than his brothers... what sort of men kept quiet, feeling shame, and what sort got away with the jackpot? […] What was it that they'd always told us about the vicious competition of the profit system, where men had to compete for who'd do a better job than his fellows? Vicious wasn't it? Well, they should have seen what it was like when we all had to compete with one another for who'd do the worst job possible. There is no surer way to destroy a man than to force him into a spot where he has to aim at not doing his best, where he has to struggle to do a bad job day after day. […] Amusement was the first thing they dropped. Aren't you always supposed to be ashamed to object when anybody asks you to give up anything, if it's something that gave you pleasure? […] There was a man who'd worked hard, all his life, because he'd always wanted to send his son through college. Well, the boy graduated from high school in the second year of the plan -- but "the family" wouldn't give the father any "allowance" for the college. They said his son couldn't go to college, until we had enough to send everybody's son to college -- and we first had to send everybody's children through high school, and we didn't even have enough for that. The father died the following year, in a knife fight with somebody in a saloon, a fight over nothing in particular -- such fights were beginning to happen among us all the time. Then there was an old guy, a widower with no family, who had one hobby: phonograph records -- "personal luxury", they called it. But at that same meeting, Millie Bush, somebody's daughter, a mean ugly little eight-year-old, was voted a pair of gold braces for her buck teeth -- this was "medical need," because the staff psychologist had said that the poor girl would get an inferiority complex if her teeth weren't straightened out. The old guy who loved music, turned to drink instead. […] But the shiftless and the irresponsible had a field day of it. They bred babies, they got girls into trouble, they dragged in every worthless relative they had from all over the country, every unmarried pregnant sister, for an extra disability allowance, they got more sickness than any doctor could disprove, they ruined their clothing, their furniture, their homes -- what the hell, "the family" was paying for it! They found more ways of getting in "need" than the rest of us could ever imagine -- they developed a special skill for it, which was the only ability they showed. […] Yet this was the moral law that the professors and leaders and thinkers had wanted to establish all over the earth. If this is what it did to a single town, where we all knew on another, do you care to think what it would do on a world scale? […]To work -- with no chance of an extra ration, till the Cambodians have been fed and the Patagonians have been sent to college. To work -- on a blank check held by every creature born, by men whom you'll never see, whose needs you will never know, whose ability or laziness or sloppiness or fraud you have no way to learn and no right to question -- just to work and work and work -- and leave it up to the Ivys and the Geralds of the world to decide whose stomach will consume the effort, the dreams and days of your life. And this is the moral law to accept? This -- a moral ideal? […] Our agony took four years, from our first meeting to our last, and it ended the only way it could end: in bankruptcy. Ivy Starnes made a short, nasty, snippy little speech in which she said that the plan failed because the rest of the country had not accepted it, that a single community could not succeed in the midst of a selfish, greedy world ..."
The story that the hobo tells about the Twentieth Century Motor Company is important for several reasons. First, Rand uses it to demonstrate the consequences of communism in practice. The primary question raised by a communist system is how an individual's needs can be determined. If a group permits each individual to determine his or her own needs, the group faces the daunting task of having to satisfy every person's desires. The problem is not necessarily that people are unscrupulous; the problem is that in such a case, there is no way to achieve objectivity. Does a man need a car or merely desire it? Does a woman require her house to be painted, or is a new coat of paint desirable but nonessential? Does a man need those books or musical recordings that he loves, which add so much meaning to his life? Who should answer such questions, and by what standard could they judge?
Questions of need cannot be answered objectively. Need is a vague and undefinable term in this context. At the Twentieth Century Motor Company, the group voted to decide the needs of each individual, just as the group decided the projected output of each worker based on ability. As a result, each individual was enslaved to the group; his income was determined by his ability to beg rather than by his productive effort. No worker could feel the pride that comes from earning money as a direct result of hard work.
When income is severed from production, incentive necessarily wanes and productivity declines. When the factory's output dropped, the group determined that some people were not working in accordance with their ability. The group sentenced those people to work overtime— without pay, of course, because income is based on need. Not surprisingly, the employees soon started to hate each other and to hide all signs of ability. As a logical consequence, declining production condemned the factory to bankruptcy.
Rand indicates that the worst evil of this communist ideal is that it rewards misery and punishes virtue. It ties a man's income to the number and severity of misfortunes that he and his family experience. It turns his productive ability into a curse, condemning him to ceaselessly toil for the satisfaction of his neighbor's unending desires. The more ability an individual shows, the more he is sentenced to unremitting slavery for the needy, with no gain for his effort. Rand insists that this is the antithesis of a proper moral code, which celebrates the creation of abundance and rewards it by tying income directly to production. Man's life on earth is made possible by virtue of his productivity, not his suffering. Justice and the ability to live successfully require that productive ability be the standard of determining a man's income, not his needs or pain.
The second and more important impact of the story told by Jeff Allen regards John Galt. Dagny now has reason to suspect that there may be a literal John Galt, who is responsible for stopping the motors and draining the brains of the world. If the hobo's story is true, then the destroyer Dagny fears may be this John Galt, who vowed years ago to stop the motor of the world. Dagny has an important clue in her quest to hunt down the destroyer.

The Invisible Hand:
Golden Lionheart,
I do NOT believe in "From each according to his ability and to each according to his needs"
I believe in TRUTH and its consequent JUSTICE.

The Invisible HandBombing Iran for the IOB?#1457047/1/06; 14:57:42

Not one of the Amerikan Kommentatators has heard of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) to which Iran will be admitted as a full member on July 18, 2006, i.e the day aafter the summit of G8 leaders in St Petersburg on 15-17 July.

As Vladimir Putin told the June 2002 St Petersburg meeting of the SCO
the SCO is already being spoken of as an international structure with high potential, which is capable of giving an answer to the challenge of our times. I think we should endorse the initiative of the heads of the foreign affairs agencies for organizing a mechanism of foreign policy coordination.

July 18, the greenback will be gone.
the bombing of Iran will have no more object/sense.

Let the TRUTH prevail!

Truth hurts, doesn't it? Does that explain why the Forum is so quiet this week-end? Wait four more hours for the British Sunday papers.

The Invisible HandHere's why!#1457057/1/06; 17:48:50,,1810488,00.html

Britain off the list when IMF assembles the new world order
High-level talks on global trade problems show the irrelevance of the G8 , says Heather Stewart
Sunday July 2, 2006
The Observer
Twenty years ago, formal financial pacts were the rich world's weapon for heading off violent movements in foreign exchange markets and restoring calm. After a fresh wave of globalisation, and a firm ideological turn away from government intervention in the markets, this approach is out of fashion.

J-Bulliontruth hurts??#1457067/1/06; 17:51:19

The truth always goes through the same pattern

1. denial
2. anger
3. acceptance
4. action

Just about everyone who is buying gold, etc. understands the situation, and has come to terms with the truth about the dollar and are already taking action. You are speaking to the choir. But if it helps you feel better to rant, feel free.

The Invisible HandRiver in Egypt#1457077/1/06; 18:27:54

If this Forum is not in denial,
why is then that upon the prediction of immediate (within three weeks) collapse of the dollar of the US of A,
I get accused by Madam/Sir Golden Lionheart
of being a socialist?

Because the US of A is kaput?

A/FOA/TG were fun as long we would not be forced to accept their conclusions.
Now, their conclusion come true.
Houston, we've got a problem!

Fortunately, we can always talk about the weather.
Weather Threatens Shuttle Launch
Washington Post, United States - Jun 29, 2006
Friday, June 30, 2006; Page A19
CAPE CANAVERAL, June 29 -- Space shuttle Discovery began the second day of its three-day countdown Thursday with a clean bill of engineering health, but NASA planners cautioned that afternoon thunderstorms, a regular feature of central Florida in July, pose a significant threat to Saturday's launch.

Here's how the BBC put it:
US space agency Nasa has called off the launch of space shuttle Discovery because of poor weather conditions.
1 Jul 2006

TopazTIH.#1457087/1/06; 19:08:34

I was on the Nile a coupla years ago in July ...Hot as bro!
Keep up the good work Sir Hand, I41 learn lots from your unique offertory.

spikedogTIH and socialism#1457097/1/06; 19:45:11

Irony seems to be at work here. One may argue that the USA is on the downhill slide because of its socialist policy (dollar hegemony) - from each (third world country) according to his ability to us (USA) according to our need.

How long after their empire zeniths did Rome, Britain, (or other historical favorite) take to come to grips with their respective demises? Why should the USA be any different?

Nice 'Atlas Shrugged' reference and full marks on your well-researched posits and rebuttals.

IMVHO, No harm, no foul on your part.

So, on this Independence Day weekend, I will be hoisting a pint to the founding statesmen who have created the best system of government the world has seen to date - not to the current crop of self-indulgent hacks. And I will also hoist another one (it's a long weekend) to the latest chapter in man's quest for freedom - FREEGOLD!

Wishing everyone on the forum independence and wealth.


GOLD FINGERJust wait!#1457107/1/06; 22:13:35


Looks like many are still feeling good about the high cost of petroleum. It's reported that over 40 million will be traveling this so called "independence" weekend here in the USA! Most are also reported to be driving to their destinations. Seems odd to me that with fuel outrageously high (here in the USA 3-bucks a usgal = HIGH!) that so many feel good about long-distance traveling.

Better it would be if everyone would prepare for other forecasts/disasters and not such an independence day retreat? (yoda speaks) Am I usually this pessimistic?? Maybe... But, it just seem that way when I get to expressing my self.

Why such a downer then when after all I am living the so called "American Dream" and the POG is UP? I just sense a personal uneasiness about so many issues. Almost like a big storm is brewing!! Anyone else feeling this?



Predictions of higher fuel in my opinion will continue to rise with all the demand and even possible weather interruptions and other obstacles to boot~

Until we can finally say we are free from oil dependency and the cartel that controls it we might as well prepare for the worse.

Is it wrong to get caught up in the holiday hoopla all the time?

From what I see wisdom would speak, prepare for possible challenging times:

-Get food,water and even fuel storage.
-Have an emergency fund and escape plan.
-Save your wealth and purchase GOLD!! I am moving all my extra liquid assets to Physical GOLD and land.
-Pay off all your indebtedness.
-Reduce your dependence on OIL consumption.

Free of Debit!
Free of bad habits!!

Have a thrilling summer and independence day!

Buy Buy


melda laureCold showers for Bernanke.#1457117/1/06; 23:19:11

Sir GF, I hope the freedom hasn't gone to your head? (smile). I am rather astonished, sir TIH, is the end finally at hand? The stern lecture the president just received at the hands of the supreme court may yet get its ripost from Puting on the 18th. I hear now that his holiness, Bin Laden (or whatever title he administers on his person) is now asking for donations to the war on iraqi schoolgirls. The news didn't mention whether dollars were an acceptable donation or only gold and euros. I shall have to look up an untranslated transcript to find out. Perhaps if the war on dollar hegemony is at hand, the war on terror can take a pause.

Well, we will see, yes, how long the markdowns last. Though if friday's action was any hint, the answer is "not much longer".

What does general relativity have to do with finance? Hmmm, the 10 dimensional field tensor, or is it the 16-valued einstein-cartan-evans field tensor? Is money a conserved quantity? Or do we live in an inflationary universe? And if the late chairman, Greenspan, can not tally the tale, then what hope have you, mere mortals, to see through the deceits of the enemy?

According to Sir Corrigan, Greenspan has enjoyed his baths, and it is now time to drain the tub for cleaner waters. Pray, avert thine eyes, 'tis not a fair sight.

melda laurevinyamar, tis a long way from here. Ethanol or Vodka?#1457127/1/06; 23:37:25

Independence hard won on a blood-soaked field of victory.

Let us not discuss the weather, for it is now cursed by men who abuse powers beyond their understanding. At least Jon Corzine seems to have some spine (it wont last!)

Sir Pan, Welcome! Though to be explicit, we do not owe you those millions, rather you already own them and we wont allow you to "spend" them until they are worthless. Such is the curse of the age, a kinder gentler curse than the age of feudalism: smooth as silk, sweet as honey; bitter in the end.

In these days of total disinformation, the truth is both scarce and precious. And it it also a radical act to seek it. Pray you do not pay the price of Hurin for your impertinent courage.

Aure Entuluva,
Auta Lome.

ps. How will increased ethanol production impact an already tight grains supply? Perhaps it is time to buy some physical yellow corn as well as yellow metal.

contrarianStages#1457137/2/06; 06:16:02

J-Bullion--don't forget bargaining, as the truth is never just suddenly and magically accepted. It would be interesting to apply this framework to current events. I would say we in the US are still in denial, as you can see with the push down in gold (although it has bobbed back up recently). The truth can be easy to deny, hard to accept, and gold can only tell the truth.

"In her 1969 book, On Death and Dying, Elizabeth Kubler-Ross identified five distinct phases which a dying person encounters. These stages are "denial," "anger," "bargaining," "depression," and finally, "acceptance." These are the exact same stages that are felt by those mourning the loss of a loved one as well."

GoldiloxGold price rally ‘is no flash in the pan’#1457147/2/06; 07:08:36


MONTREUX, Switzerland: Gold fever rages on despite the metal's 24% jump in a month to 26-year highs followed by an even faster retreat.

"This is a serious bull run. Those people who think it's a bubble ready to burst might be disappointed," Tony Dobra, director of global commodity derivatives at Standard Chartered Bank, said.

Analysts see gold marching towards last month's peak of $730 a troy ounce after consolidating its position in the near term and reaching the previous record high of $850 in the coming years.

And they have ample arguments to support this - a weak dollar outlook, fund diversification, geopolitical tensions, inflation worries, poor mine supplies and safe-haven buying.

"The fundamentals that brought the investors in and made it attractive have not diminished," said New York-based Paul McLeod, vice president of precious metals at Commerzbank.

"After we get through the summer, which is traditionally a quiet period for metals, we will see the re-emergence of the buying interest from investors."

Gold tumbled 26% to $543 on June 14 from its peak in mid-May as a rise in the dollar, weakness in oil prices and easing political tension in the Middle East triggered a selloff.

Prices have recovered but are still hovering below $600.

"The correction was much needed and it's just in time," Dobra said. Delegates attending a precious metals conference of the London Bullion Market Association (LBMA) in Montreux, Switzerland, has predicted that gold prices would be at $698.60 an ounce by November 2007.

The forecast, compiled electronically from the votes of about 150 delegates including bankers, analysts, producers and funds managers, is about 35% higher than gold's price at the start of the year and 60% more than a year ago.

So what makes the sentiment so bullish? "I believe the stature and reputation of the dollar as store value has been greatly diminished and undermined over the past decade," Anthony S. Fell, chairman of RBC Capital Markets, said.

"Investors forget that bear markets start when the skies are blue and bull markets start when there is despair and apathy in the air," he told the LBMA conference.

Analysts say that despite short-term spikes, the dollar was expected to fall in the long term and the Federal Reserve might reduce interest rates after raising them in the short-term.

Gold prices generally move in the opposite direction to the US currency as the metal is often considered as an alternative investment. A drop in interest rates prompts investors to shift to other assets from currencies for better returns.

Funds, which were instrumental in driving gold higher during the recent rally, have not lost confidence in the market and pension funds are considering diversification into commodities.

"Some diversification hasn't happened yet but will happen at some stage," said Michael Widmer, analyst at Macquarie Bank. "People are waiting at the moment to move back into the market."

Cyrille E Urfer, head of fund research at Lombard Odier Darier Hentsch, said pension funds would continue to increase their allocation to asset classes such as commodities that were not common in the last couple of years.

"You will see much more investment demand. They are looking at the possibility to make their portfolio more robust and they are going to be more medium- to long-term investors."

Safe-haven gold is also likely to get a boost from the situation in the Middle East and signs that North Korea might test a long-range missile.

"There are still tensions in the Middle East, you have got the issues with the American economy. It won't take much of a spark to re-ignite the gold price again," said Jeremy Charles, managing director of precious metals at HSBC Bank USA. - Reuters

GoldiloxFunny Money: A Quarter Full of Hilarity #1457157/2/06; 07:16:34


Alan Greenspan said global economic imbalance might be improved if some high-growth nations let their currencies strengthen. Alan, let it go. You had your chance. Go back to wandering the beach with a metal detector, wearing your big shorts and black socks and looking like an out of work popcorn mogul. . .

Apple will offer computers that run Windows. Hooray! My Mac and I have been dying to get these "viruses" we keep hearing about. Thanks, Steve. Can't wait until you sell me the $300 portable solution to whatever problems this'll cause. . .

Delta folded its discount carrier Song back into the main airline, which is a tough blow for the seven people who ever flew Song.

GM fired its Chief Accounting Officer, Peter Bible. So much for faith-based accounting.

Newsflash: Bush's tax cuts will be paid for by selling your phone records to Mexico.


Some financial humor for the holidays . . .

Chris PowellNo wonder they invented central banking; it's a lot easier#1457167/2/06; 11:45:30,1413,113~7244~3341450,00.html

Prospector Rescued from Yukon River

By Tim Mowry
Fairbanks (Alaska) Daily News-Miner
Saturday, July 1, 2006

A Fairbanks man and his dog were rescued Wednesday
after spending two days holed up in a cabin along the
Yukon River eating fried dough and rhubarb after his
boat sank while he was prospecting for gold.

Myron Chamblee, 42, was picked up by helicopter
Wednesday night at a National Park Service cabin on
Washington Creek, which flows into the Yukon River
about 100 miles upstream of Circle in the
Yukon-Charley Rivers National Park and Preserve.

Chamblee signaled a passing airplane from Everts Air
Service earlier in the day with aerial flares and the
pilot notified Alaska State Troopers.

"I knew I was in the flight path between Eagle and
Circle," said Chamblee, who carried six aerial flares
in a survival pack. "That was part of the plan if I
ran into any trouble."

Accompanied by his 7-year-old husky mix, Scooby-Doo,
Chamblee arrived at Washington Creek from Circle on
June 20 in a 20-foot flat-bottom riverboat to scout a
possible gold mining spot he had been told about.

After parking his boat at a Park Service cabin near
the mouth of the creek, Chamblee spent two days hiking
15 miles up the creek in a pair of hip waders to reach
his prospecting spot, which he said is located outside
park boundaries.

It started raining almost as soon as he got there but
he was able to take refuge in a well-stocked trapper's
cabin he knew about, said Chamblee, who owns a cabin
in Circle and is familiar with the section of the
Yukon River between Circle and Eagle.

It rained for the next three days and the water in the
creek came up about two feet, he said. Chamblee had
intended to spend only one day prospecting at the
cabin, but he ended up staying there for three days
waiting for the water to drop.

It took two days for him and the dog to make it back
to the boat. When they got there on Monday it was
under water. He had tied the boat off on the creek
bank but the bowline got hooked on a stump and
wouldn't allow the boat to rise with the creek,
Chamblee said.

"It didn't take much current to swamp it," he said.

The boat's 40-horsepower motor was sticking out of the
water and the bowline was showing but Chamblee's
initial attempt to retrieve the boat failed. Exhausted
and hungry, Chamblee decided to wait for the water to
go down.

Chamblee had been rationing MRE's for two days and had
eaten the last half of the last one that morning. The
only thing he could find to eat in the Park Service
cabin was flour, so he and his dog spent the next two
days eating pan bread, Chamblee said.

"I'd make a paste out of it and cook it," he said.

A patch of rhubarb growing outside the cabin
complemented the pan bread, Chamblee said. He peeled
the rhubarb and ate it raw.

"I love rhubarb," he said.

But instead of going down the next day, the water in
the creek rose again and submerged the boat, making it
impossible to move it.

On Wednesday, Chamblee decided to attempt to signal a
passing plane with one of his six flares. He had heard
the plane passing overhead each morning on its daily
flight to Eagle. Chamblee fired two flares but the
pilot didn't see them, he said.

Chamblee tried again on the plane's return flight,
firing four flares this time.

"Once I had his attention I wanted to make sure I kept
it," he said.

The pilot notified Alaska state troopers in Tok at
around 11:30 a.m. Troopers alerted the Rescue
Coordination Center in Anchorage, which plotted the
original GPS coordinates for the flares on Weshrinarin
Creek, which is about five miles downstream of
Washington Creek.

Both troopers and the Park Service sent planes to the
area but found no sign of Chamblee. It wasn't until
Park Service personnel contacted the Everts pilot
again to clarify the location that he mentioned there
was a cabin in the area. That's when rescuers figured
out Chamblee was actually on Washington Creek.

The Park Service dispatched a helicopter to the cabin
and found Chamblee and his dog hungry but in good
shape at around 9 p.m.

"I was happy to see them," said Chamblee, who
commended the Park Service for "bending over
backwards" to help him.

They were flown to Eagle, where Chamblee was treated
to a plate of spaghetti and Scooby-Doo got a bowl of
dog food.

Chamblee and his dog flew to Circle on Thursday and
drove back to Fairbanks. On Friday he was in the
process of organizing a rescue mission to go retrieve
his boat and whatever belongings he could find
floating down the river, he said.

As for gold, Chamblee said he didn't find any.

Chris PowellPennies soon may be a thing of the past -- nickels too#1457177/2/06; 12:12:10

By Jeff Donn
Associated Press
Sunday, July 2, 2006

PLYMOUTH, Massachusetts -- In this village settled by thrifty Pilgrims, you can still buy penny candy for a penny, but tourist Alan Ferguson doubts he'll be able to dig any 1-cent pieces out of his pockets.

He rarely carries pennies because "they take up a lot of room for how much value they have." Instead, like so many other Americans, he dumps his pennies into a bucket back home in Sarasota, Fla.

Pity the poor penny!

It packs so little value that merry kids chuck pennies into the fountain near the candy store, just to watch them splash and sink. Stray pennies turn up everywhere: in streets, cars, sofas, beaches, even landfills with the rest of the garbage.

A penny bought a loaf of bread in early America, but it's a loafer of a coin in an age of inflation and affluence, slowly sliding into monetary obsolescence.

For the first time, the U.S. Mint has said pennies are costing more than 1 cent to make this year, thanks to higher metal prices.

"The penny is going to disappear soon unless something changes in the economics of commodities," says Robert Hoge, an expert on North American coins at The American Numismatic Society.

That very idea of spending 1.2 cents to put 1 cent into play strikes many people as "faintly ridiculous," says Jeff Gore, of Elkton, Md., founder of a little group called Citizens for Retiring the Penny.

And yet, while its profile of Abe Lincoln marks time in the bottom of drawers and ashtrays, the penny somehow carries a reassuring symbolism that Americans hesitate to forsake.

"It's part of their past, so they want to keep it in their future," says Dave Harper, editor of Numismatic News.

Gallup polling has shown that two-thirds of Americans want to keep the penny coin. There's even a pro-penny lobby called Americans for Common Cents.

The Mint's announcement is a milestone, though, because coins have historically cost less to produce than the face value paid by receiving banks. They are moneymakers for the government.

U.S. Rep. Jim Kolbe of Arizona wants to keep it that way. But when he asked Congress to phase out the penny five years ago he failed; he intends to try again this year. If he fails again, he joked recently, he may open a business melting down pennies to resell the metal.

The idea of a penniless society began to gain currency in 1989 with a bill in Congress to round off purchases to the nearest nickel. It was dropped, but the General Accounting Office in a 1996 report unceremoniously acknowledged that some people consider the penny a "nuisance coin."

In 2002 Gallup polling found that 58 percent of Americans stash pennies in piggy banks, jars, drawers and the like, instead of spending them like other coins. Some people eventually redeem them at banks or coin-counting machines, but 2 percent admit to just plain throwing pennies out.

"Today it's a joke. It's outlived its usefulness," says Tony Terranova, a New York City coin dealer who paid $437,000 for a 1792 penny prototype in what is believed to be the denomination's highest auction price.

"Most people find them annoying when they get them in change," he adds. "I've seen people get pennies in change and actually throw them on the floor."

Not Edmond Knowles of Flomaton, Alabama.

No, he hoarded pennies for nearly four decades as a hobby. He ended up with more than 1.3 million of them -- 4.5 tons -- in several drums in his garage. His bank refused to take them all at once, but he finally found a coin-counting company, Coinstar, that wanted the publicity.

In the biggest known penny cash-in ever, they sent an armored truck last year, loaded his pennies, and then watched helplessly as it sank into the mud in his yard. They needed a tow truck to redeem it. "I still got a few ruts in the yard," says Knowles.

His years of collecting brought him about $1 a day -- $13,084.59 in all.

A penny saved was a penny earned for Knowles, but he took another lesson from the experience too: "I don't save pennies anymore. It's too big a problem getting rid of them."

Another problem: deciding what to make the penny from. Copper, bronze, and zinc have been used, even steel in 1943 when copper was desperately needed for the World War II effort. In 1982 zinc replaced most of the penny's copper to save money, but rising zinc prices are now bedeviling the penny again.

"I'm very surprised they haven't gone to plastic," muses Bill Johnson, a wheat-penny collector who owns the Plimoth Candy Co. (It uses an old spelling of Plymouth.)

Even in his shop where a penny still buys a Tootsie Roll, he leaves a few pennies scattered on top of the cash register for customers like Lindsay Taylor, of Westwood, who is buying $1.78 worth of candy.

She is carrying no pennies because her sons have taken them for their old-fashioned piggy banks, which automatically flip coins inside. Her 2-year-old, she says, "just loves pushing the button."

Others have their own reasons for valuing the humble coin, which borrowed its colloquial name from British currency. The "cent" — meaning 1 percent of a dollar — has been struck every year except 1815, when the United States ran out of British-made penny blanks in the wake of the War of 1812.

"It's part of the fabric of American culture," says David Early, a spokesman for the government's Lincoln Bicentennial Commission.

The penny took on the profile of President Lincoln, beloved as the Union's savior during the Civil War, on the centennial of his birth in 1909. The first ones carried ears of wheat on the tails side, but the Lincoln memorial has replaced those. Four new tails designs with themes from Lincoln's life are planned for 2009, with a fifth permanent one afterward to summarize his legacy.

This redesign, the first major one since 1959, has heartened penny lovers.

Those who want to keep the penny coin include small merchants who prefer cash transactions, contractors who help supply pennies, and consumer advocates who fear the rounding up of purchases.

"We think the penny is important as a hedge to inflation," says director Mark Weller of Americans for Common Cents. "Any time you have more accurate pricing, consumers benefit."

Joining with the lobby, the wireless network Virgin Mobile USA recently launched a save-the-penny campaign. Its penny truck will travel cross-country to gather pennies for charity.

Scores of charities esteem the penny, which many Americans donate without a second thought. Like shouts in a playground, pennies can multiply quickly.

"People don't like carrying them around, so we dump them into the nearest bowl," says Teddy Gross, who founded the Penny Harvest charity drive in New York City schools. "By the end of any given year most Americans have got a stash of capital that is practically useless, but it's within easy reach of a young person."

Last year his children raked in 55 million pennies, which had to be redeemed with help from the Brink's security company. They also bagged about 200,000 spare nickels.

By the way, the Mint says nickels are also costing more to produce than they're worth. Pity the poor nickel?

ArmageddonInflationary or Deflationary Depression?#1457187/2/06; 12:47:11

I just finished listening to the lastest Jim Puplava/Financial News Hour audio clip with a discussion with gold experts. All of them predicted an inflationary recession/depression if it happens. They also predicted a dollar freefall if the dollar goes below the 80 level on the dollar index (I assume it is the same one displayed on the top of this gold board forum which is around 85.XX now).

It would seem with Helicopter Ben at the Fed and a fiat dollar not tried to gold anymore an inflationary situation is much more likely than a deflationary one. Any other comments/ideas out there?

GoldiloxThe Penny as Inflationary measure#1457197/2/06; 17:51:42

@ Chris Powell


"A penny bought a loaf of bread in early America, but it's a loafer of a coin in an age of inflation and affluence, slowly sliding into monetary obsolescence."

Now that a loaf of bread (nutritional bread, not pulp) costs about $2.49, we get another great indicator of FED manufactured inflation. It's ironic that we look forward to a penny being worth much more than the paper dollar!

The only "inflation fighting" the FED does is managing the evolution of hyperbolic inflation, stretching out their legalized theft over a few more generations.

The outcome is predetermined by the mathematical function itself, as the FIAT dollar has no choice but to asymptotically approach ZERO along it's value axis.

BoilermakerBin Laden Speaks Twice#1457207/2/06; 18:34:50

I have an uneasy feeling that Bin Laden's two recent press releases (Thursday and Saturday) may be the trigger for some mischief to be visited on our (US) July 4th 230th birthday party. Hope I'm wrong. I've got a box full of fireworks to celebrate the event. Further, I continue to believe that the US will come to grips with its sad state of financial/economic affairs once the people learn what's been happening during the past century of fiat finagling.

God bless us goldgugs in our unending battle for truth in money.

MKArmageddon. . . Inflationary or Deflationary Depression#1457217/2/06; 19:18:59

Let me say that we must understand the concept of "bias" in order to proceed to a rational projection of the future. The "bias" of a gold standard economy is toward "deflation." The "bias" of a fiat money economy is toward "inflation." Therefore, the likelihood is that we will experience an inflationary depression along the lines of what the Pacific rim experienced in the late 1990s and the United States in the 1970s. Among those I have read, Ravi Batra makes the best case under the circumstances. I would direct you there.
MKChris Powell. . .#1457227/2/06; 19:33:53

The fact of the matter is that more and more of us are stacking one dollar bills in the drawer the way we used to throw change in the jar. The penny, nickel, dime and quarter are all the new "penny." That is the degree of inflation we are experiencing that the government will never admit.
melda laureWhat this country needs is a good ten cent dollar.#1457237/2/06; 20:28:43

Yes, the dollar bill is quite a nuisance. It is much too filthy and bulky to have in one's pocketses in any quantity to be useful for purchases greater than a snack. A $5 coin and a $10 coin would be handy. A new dollar coin in "dime" sizes would be the practical action. Given silver prices, we're there now.

Wont happen.- that would mean admitting failure.

melda laureAs they ditch the penny, it is time to bring back the half gallon note ($500)#1457247/2/06; 20:36:27

Another interesting social behaviour to monitor is the decreasing reluctance of merchants to accept the $100 note. It is quite useless as there is no way to hand it back to the next customer as change (customers asking for cash back on an ATM transaction usually want smaller bills). It is still enough money to be too much money to lose if the bill is fake, and yet 20$ (or $80 for that matter) of victuals is hardly a full basket anymore. And it is just a bit silly to hand over forty or more $20 notes to purchase a small appliance.
ArmageddonCollector value of Pennies, Nickels, Dimes, etc#1457257/2/06; 21:11:42

Hmm. Maybe I should start collecting rolls of pennies, nickels, dimes, etc. If hyperinflation sets in and the value of commodities skyrocket then most people would sell their pennies, and nickels for the "melt" value. However, once the hyperinflation ends perhaps the penny and nickel will be worth something to coin collectors since most would have been melted down and destroyed. Currently, I see rolls of old cents and nickels selling for way over the numerical value of the coin on websites that cater to coin collectors.

Good Idea?

GOLD FINGERDo...doodooo#1457267/2/06; 21:25:57

A friend sent me this link and I thought I would share it.
SundeckReluctance to accept US bank notes. And the fate of small change#1457277/2/06; 22:09:19

@melda laure #145724 and MK et al.,

melda laure, it is interesting that you should mention reluctance on the part of merchants to accept $100 notes.

I had this experience while visiting the US last year (Anaheim, CA)...although I think it was a $50 note, if my memory is correct. The small-time florist was very wary about me offering to pay with a brand-spanking new note...still smelling of the printing press. He got out a sellection of coloured pens and tested several on the surface of the note. Eventually he accepted it, after I had offered him several alternative forms of payment (credit cards).

I wonder just how prevalent this sort of thing is? Is counterfeiting that much of a problem, or are people just unfamiliar with the "new" notes?

In Austalia, we did away with our 1c and 2c coins several years ago. (They were created in 1966, when the currency was decimalised.) We have also done-away with $1 and $2 notes a long time ago; replacing them with coins. The 5c coin is now the smallest token in circulation, although all accounting/sales/invoicing/pricing is still down to single cent units. (What would retailers do without the infamous $29.99 price-label, instead of $30.00!!...although you would think that $29.95 would be just as effective...)

Needless to say, you can't buy a heck of a lot with a 5c coin anymore...not even useful in coin-operated machines, as most will not accept them.


GOLD FINGERGood as GOLD!#1457287/2/06; 22:46:08

In my town when I drove up to the crappy fast food restaurant to get some Taco-bell, I realized I only had 100's on me and they did not take credit like some have started. I guess taco bell still likes all the pennies and change bs. In any event when I pulled up to get my crap I showed them the 100 and said that's all I had.

The young man looked at it and then whet to the register and found plenty of 20's for me. Mostly I was wondering if he would be able to figure it ok since he did not speak English! Oh, I was wrong, money talks~!

I usually never carry bills and coins are just as messy and smelly. CHARGE IT and pay it off and get the free sky miles!!
Good as gold??

TopazArmageddon.#1457297/3/06; 01:24:36

Funny old world we live in eh?
The scenario thats always at the forefront in my mind is that where the Market discounts all and every "future" investment preferring the "present" ...Cash/Gold.
I'd imagine 'ol Buck would fare pretty well vis the other Bum-wad under such conditions.
This is your DEflationary worst nightmare and Ben etal are totally incapable of warding it off.
One has only to conceptualise what things would be like NOW if say 911 and it's concurrent twin deficits etc. hadn't fortuitously come along.
All IMHO of course.

SundeckUAE Central Bank set to enter the gold market#1457307/3/06; 04:29:46


The UAE Central Bank Governor this week gave his strongest hint yet that the emirates will shortly enter the gold market and also purchase euros as a diversification of the national currency reserves presently held in US dollars. With the US dollar ripe for devaluation this seems a timely initiative.


Many economists see US dollar devaluation now on the agenda as the US economy adjusts to accommodate its twin deficits, and that means that for the UAE holding non-dollar assets like gold and the euro will help protect the value of its foreign currency reserves.

Sundeck: Mmmm...they talk about a summer lull in gold buying...better be careful things don't hot up earlier and more than expected...


SundeckChina and Africa and Oil and Aid#1457317/3/06; 05:08:46


The purpose of his [Wen's] visit was to establish a strategic partnership with Africa. In this perspective China plans to lower tariffs on African goods, provide low-interest loans, invest in local infrastructure and help making South Africa more competitive.

Sundeck: China plans to replace 15% of its oil imports by application of South African coal-liquification technology to China's massive reserves of coal. China is also in a fine position to offer "low-interest" US dollar loans to SA using some of its massive US dollar reserves. I get the feeling that "ex-coloinal" Africa is seen by China as ripe pickings indeed...


SundeckChina seeks further cooperation with SCO in oil industry#1457327/3/06; 05:21:39


China hopes to intensify cooperation with other members of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) in the oil sector, in which its own advantages will also benefit international partners, said industry insiders attending a business forum here Thursday.


The SCO groups Kazakhstan, China, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan. In 2004, the most recent time that data is available, their combined oil output and consumption stood at 720 million tons and 452 million tons respectively.


At Thursday's business forum, China's vice minister of communications Feng Zhenglin said the six SCO members should speed up construction of three road networks that will link China, Russia and the central Asia nations with the Caspian Sea, Iran, Turkey and the European countries.

Sundeck: China and the SCO certainly appear to be on cordial terms and on the move...and they have a significant oil surplus between them.

It helps to understan' what your neighbours have to offer...


SundeckOops#1457337/3/06; 05:23:09 is the link for the story about "Stan" and his friends...
Liberty HeadWashington Post Agrees with "Another"#1457347/3/06; 10:52:24

Gold hits 4-week high, tracks oil

A senior government economist said China should take advantage of any weakness in bullion prices to build up its official gold holdings as part of a strategy for diversifying its foreign exchange reserves.

The United Arab Emirates said the central bank was sticking with plans to convert up to 10 percent of its currency reserves into euros and could convert up to 10 percent into gold.

Hmmmm, Gold tracks oil. Where have I heard that before?
Oh now I remember. I read it here 8 years ago.

Best Wishes

Flatliner@UAE entering gold market#1457357/3/06; 11:33:58

Sundeck, it is interesting to see this governor's comment with respect to entering the gold market. I'm pretty sure that everyone in this forum is well aware that if a central bank entered the gold market they would qualify as a Big Trader. Big Traders are locked out of the market that we use and follow with regards to price discovery. Delivery is simply not an option, thus going to the source is the only choice.

At the same time, is there something more interesting in the statement? I can't help but think about this statement "'I don't think it is appropriate to buy gold now - it is too expensive." To us ants, we see the price of gold as really cheap! We get to take advantage of the Strong Dollar and convert our few little bills into metal wealth with no questions asked and virtually no resistance. But, when we listen to this CB governor, his point of view is different. What would make him say that buying gold would be too costly? Could it be that they value something else higher then gold? Life maybe? Peace in their country maybe? Could it be that they do NOT by gold because they get services (by not buying) that are above and beyond what they get if they do buy?

There is also the statement "…waiting for the right moment to buy euros…" Why must they wait? To anyone else in the world, they would just make the purchase. Thus, the only thing that I can conclude from a statement like this is that there are contractual reasons why they do not buy Euros. On top of that, a statement like this comes as a warning to the other party that they are in agreement with in order to clearly announce that if the other party defaults on the agreement, the contract is null & void. Thus, if the party that they direct their comment towards values the contract, they will need to hold up their side of the bargain.

Finally, they say that they are generally investing in debt instruments in the US (probably part of the agreement) and that they expect interest rates to continue to go up. What's interesting here is that they are expecting rates to go up. Sure, that gives them a higher yield, but it reduces principle. The only time someone makes money buying debt instruments is when rates are falling so the money that is used to fulfill the contract has a higher value then the ones invested. Thus, the comment in this article is stating that they are still willing to take loses with regards to their investments in the US.

I see this statement as a political one. They have not publicly purchased gold and make it obvious that the value that it would provide them – right now – does not make sense. They also have not bought Euros, so if there was any question with regards to deals, that should not be questioned. Likewise, they are recycling into debt instruments.

My eyes continue to look for Russian news. They seem to be the one country not all tied up on the strong dollar game and they seem to be playing both sides seeing the current economic positioning. The question that I have is will Europe allow for taxation through inflation of the Ruble? Or, will gold balance trade?

Liberty HeadThe Parade Just Goes On#1457367/3/06; 12:46:07

Our nation's independence from a king named George will be celebrated once again this 4th of July. There's a bitter irony for you.

Human nature has not changed one bit since Andersen's tale of The Emperors New Suit.
Blinded by arrogance, an emperor parades his lies for all to see. Most turn out to cheer and wave their flags in support. Few challenge the emperor. After the deceit is publicly revealed, nothing changes. The parade just goes on.
We love a parade, don't we? The same parade is still going on to this day.

Human nature has a positive side as well. It is our nature to value gold highly.
I will celebrate that!!

Best Wishes

Flatliner@MK's the degree of inflation#1457377/3/06; 14:14:40

As the penny goes, so is set the path for all coins. All coins have intrinsic value. If the US government does away with the penny, you will find that a path will be set to drive everyone to plastic – for all transactions. In a gold forum, the value derived from the intrinsic value of coins is something that is well understood to give power to the holder of the asset rather then to the issuer of the fiat currency.

Some people today find it ok to pay the inflation tax in their roll to be a ‘good citizen.’ Others, like gold bugs, do not. Wealth does not exist without intrinsic value. In that environment, it's all corporate and governmental laws that drive the flow of cash that determines individual or collective power. Where intrinsic value exists in the currency system, fair and honest exchanges are made and valued.

It will be interesting as people discover that gold coins are comparable to pennies. That is, the face value of a(n old) penny is lower then it's intrinsic value. The same thing exists in the gold market where the market price of gold is much lower then its function in the marketplace under the control of the Strong Dollar policy. What is the real intrinsic value of an ounce of gold? How long until some big economy defaults on it's commitments and sets the world market's free to chase gold? It is then that we will see what the intrinsic value of gold is.

Meanwhile, we, as ants, carry home little nuggets one round at a time.

Flatliner@The Invisible Hand's Freegold schedule#1457387/3/06; 14:31:52

TIH, I am curious about the statement "once Iran is in the SCO (Shanghai Cooperation Organization), Freegold will be a fact". The more I watch and listen, the more I lean towards Freegold being dependent upon the strong dollar policy in the US. I do not see the actions of Iran changing that of the Strong Dollar policy anytime soon. In fact, what I see developing here is another fiat currency system built up around China and Russia that mirror what the US has done. These are debt based systems that generate tax through inflation and find support through oil and exports.

The only way I see Freegold is if the agreements that support the dollar fail.

ArmageddonRavi Batra#1457397/3/06; 15:13:30

@MK - Thanks for the info on Batra

I assume you were talking mainly about Batra's latest book called

"Greenspan's Fraud : How Two Decades of His Policies Have Undermined the Global Economy (Hardcover)"

referring to the likelihood of an inflationary depression.

I also remember glancing through his book on a depression in 1990 however, I don't recall if he talked about inflation in it or not. At that time globalization was just about to take off especially in China which provided America with many cheap products thus lowering the perception of inflation dramatically perhaps preventing Batra's depression from materializing?

Chris PowellGold shines on UAE's plan to switch out of dollars#1457407/3/06; 18:54:14

By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
The Telegraph, London
Tuesday, July 4, 2006

Gold has surged to a six-week high of $625 an ounce
after the United Arab Emirates revealed plans to
invest 10 percent of its foreign reserves in bullion,
suggesting a strategic shift away from dollars by the
oil-rich sheikdoms of the Gulf.

The governor of the central bank, Sultan bin Nasser
al-Suwaidi, said the UAE would switch into gold

"I don't think it is appropriate to buy gold now. It
is too expensive. The appropriate time might come very
soon. We could go up to 10 percent," he told the AME
Info financial service in Dubai.

"When there is a clear trend going up, you move into
it. If it is going down, you wait for the bottom and
buy. There is no trend at this point," he said.

The Russian central bank has a similar strategy of
raising reserves to 10 percent, buying the dips each
time gold falls back from a speculative surge -- a
policy that quickly puts a floor under each

Gold reached $730 an ounce in early May before
crashing 24 percent in the sharpest drop since the
bull market began in 2001. The metal has since shown
extraordinary resilience, regaining half the ground

The UAE's foreign reserves are a modest $23 billion,
but the federation of states also disposes of vast
investment wealth through oil trusts.

The Abu Dhabi petroleum fund is thought to be worth at
least $450 billion. The fund never discloses its
investments and moves quietly through foreign banks,
but veteran gold watchers suspect that it is also
diversifying into precious metals.

Separately, an official from China's Banking
Regulatory Commission said Beijing should raise its
gold holding from 1.3 percent to between 3 and 5
percent of the country's exploding foreign reserves,
now nearing $900 billion.

The official also stressed the need to ease in
gradually, buying when the price was right.

SundeckUAE CB Governor's statement#1457417/3/06; 19:08:41

Flatliner #145735

Yes, it is a bit of a mystery why a relatively large potential buyer would want to signal their intentions to a market beforehand. You won't find a Buffett doing fact he (Buffett) has reportedly dropped brokers who were indiscrete with his intentions...and for plenty good reason...for his own sake, as well as for the sake of the market generally!

Yet here we have a cashed-up official of some significance blabbing to all and sundry about buying gold...if only it was a bit cheaper...not really "talking down the market" is he...

But then, in recent times, he has not been alone. Russia, China, Iran and several other countries' treasury/banking officials have made similar statements. An odd behaviour indeed if they know anything at all about trading commodities.

And it is hard to believe that he really thinks gold is cheap in US-dollar terms, when he must be aware of the tightness in new mine supplies and that existing stocks are ever more tightly held as the world awaits the dollars descent.

Furthermore, one doesn't think of central banks as being short-term players, buying today and selling tomorrow on volatility. They may do this, but I would imagine that the bulk of their resserves would be relatively static assets over long periods. Why would he worry about trying to save a few bucks per ounce when they are looking to the long-term?

Maybe he is just a ninny at the game, or maybe, as you suggest, there are other agendas...just as there are for Russia and China. For sure, sitting on top of the world's oil-reserve powder keg, as the United Arab Emirates does, it is almost inconceivable that officials such as this do not send carefully crafted messages in the subtext of their announcements...


goldquestUAE Gold Buying#1457427/3/06; 19:28:16

They are buying gold NOW, dumping greenbacks. Getting the most "bang," for the buck, so to speak, before everyone else catches on!
Dump the Greenies, buy the Goldies.
Forum members and readers are already ahead of the UAE.

MKChris Powell. . .Flatliner. . .UAE gold purchases#1457447/3/06; 19:44:07

Appreciate the articles posted, Chris.

What is painfully apparent, if you happen to be short the gold market, is that there are some potent forces aligned on the bull side. It is significant in what it portends and what can be read between the lines. As the article subtley suggests, perhaps the UAE central bank governor has more on his mind than the reserves of the nation state alone. In the Gulf, oil revenues are more concentrated in what we would call private holdings than public. The $23 billion in UAE central bank reserves is overshadowed by far by what is held in the "petroleum fund" -- $450 billion dollars.

I found this paragraph particularly revealing:

"The Abu Dhabi petroleum fund is thought to be worth at
least $450 billion. The fund never discloses its
investments and moves quietly through foreign banks,
but veteran gold watchers suspect that it is also
diversifying into precious metals."

We should be careful here. Despite the fact that most "players" talk their book in the public venue (and I consider the Sultan a player), here we have a case where the power is so situated that what is being said might very well become reality. When you think about it. . . .Why not??? If the UAE central bank can drive the gold price higher by inference or direct action, guess who benefits?

UAE official sector buying could translate to huge profits on the private side of the ledger. In other words, the gold is already acquired and more is in the can. If you can truly get your mind around what is going on here, the statements by the Sultan project a great deal more for the gold market than what the words signify.

Keep in mind that what we are tossing around here are the words and actions of one small state in the Gulf. There is much more at work here than meets the eye.

The Invisible HandThe moment of impact (FGD) is nearing#1457457/3/06; 19:48:06

Western diplomats (maintained alive with stolen tax
money) are now giving Iran an ultimatum for July 12,
six days before FreeGold Day (FGD).

The repeat by the UAE that it is diversifying into
gold and euro is by the same token a political statement.

It is certainly a political statement if one considers that the messenger is naively drawing attention to the fact that the UAE wants to put its hands on CHEAP gold. But even our gentle host seems unable to understand such subtleties. Or does he? He can't get his mind about what is going on here and therefore can only guess that the statements project a great deal more for the gold market than what the words signify.
"When it's a question of money, everybody is of the same religion." - Voltaire
The size of funds under management by the US mutual funds, life insurance companies and pension funds overwhelm, as an aggregate, the total official reserves of the Asian central banks. What the Asian central banks do is important, but what the US real money accounts do is really important."


Asian CBs $-reserves --- $ 2,7 trillion ---

Put this in perspective versus the
--- $ 18,6 trillion --- which the US MONEY ACCOUNTS(funds) are managing.

But if only a small fraction of this dollar-giant
does not remain loyal to the dollar and wants to replace greenbacks with tangible Freegold, then the dollar-giant could collapse. Why? Because the dollar is nothing else than a debt bubble.

Flatliner argues however that Freegold is dependent
upon the strong dollar policy in the US of A, but the only way he see Freegold is if the agreements that support the dollar fail.

Does Flatliner mean that it is only the objectives of the US of A policy which count, but that for other debt based systems such as China and Russia, it is the actual results of the policies which matter? No, he seems to argue that if the agreements that support the dollar fail, Freegold will be a fact.

Sorry, no spell checker available in internet cafe.

ToolieUAE CB's comments#1457467/3/06; 20:38:07

Is it unlikely that the comments made by the UAE CB are intended to distract investors and speculators away from the gold market? Shake loose what may be shaken loose while they accumulate. Wouldn't every ounce help?
Sierra MadreA possible International Monetary Conference...#14574707/03/06; 21:39:56

Dear Mr. Kosares:

I am back at this Forum, moved by a wish to comment on your article of some weeks ago, in which you expressed the thought that an international conference would have to take place sooner or later, to take up the reform of the international monetary system.

My comment on the possibility of such a Conference:

It seems to me that at this time, all the Central Bankers of the world know perfectly well that a reform of the International Monetary System is urgently required. Perhaps Bernanke does not understand this, but Paulson is a very practical man and certainly, he must agree that the present monetary system is totally shot.

The problem is, that the moment such a Conference is known to be in the process of being set up - and keeping it a secret would be impossible as too many people would be involved in such an undertaking - the whole financial world will know quite clearly what that means: a re-establishment of gold at the center of such a reformed monetary system.

And seconds - not weeks, days or hours, but SECONDS - after the news of an impending Monetary Conference filtered out, the price of gold would rocket upward into the thousands, totally out of control.

All the important parties to such a conference know that that would happen. And so, no such conference can be planned or take place. No one dares propose it!

So, that leaves only one alternative: to continue down the present path until the whole shebang collapses in chaos. And when that happens, of course, gold will rocket upward into the thousands anyway.

All this, just my opinion, of course.

All the best for you and USAGOLD!

Sierra Madre

Ten BearsCall for New Bretton Woods#1457487/3/06; 22:57:21

@ Sierra Madre #: 145747

Others share your view.

FlatlinerCollapses in chaos#1457497/3/06; 23:36:04

Sierra Madre, Your posting stacks up nicely on the collection today. The only clarification that I would make on your statement is that it's not the whole system that collapses, but the system build around the US dollar. There is a subtle difference between that and the entire system going down. If confidence is lost in the US Dollar, strength will be found in gold that will strengthen the Euro and Ruble and currencies of other countries that have beefed up their reserves in gold. Thus, the whole shebang doesn't have to go down for gold to shine – just the US Dollar.

MK, I also believe there is more on his mind then reserves when the UAE bank governor speaks. I tend to be suspicious when I read articles and I couldn't help but see today's article as an official statement that the "bank" (being a political tool) is making it clear that in politics they are not buying gold or Euros. But, it may be that gold is flowing into that country in large amounts – but it is not the bank! Picture a UAE equivalent Warren Buffet moving his assets into gold. It is very private, but in the gold markets, very public. Thus, even though a state may sign a political contract with the west, it doesn't mean that they are going to be able to stop every single investor in their country from diversifying into hard assets. Or, what if there are just a lot of "Big Investors" in the region that are shipping in gold. In either case, if there are contracts that force the state to make one type of decision, yet the people in the region perform different actions, I would expect the bank to stand up to make such a claim. Or, basically say what this guy said today – they have not bought gold and they have not bought Euros and they are buying debt instruments. They are still following the letter of the law between countries to support the strong dollar.

Goldquest, I believe that you are correct, they are buying, but the hair that I'm splitting here is that it's not the CB that is buying. The CB, being a political instrument, can not buy. So yes, they – as meaning the people of the region that have lost confidence in the US Dollar – are dropping dollars for gold just like you and I are doing the same.

Sundeck, Why would a central bank buy gold? As I see it, the act of a central bank buying gold gives strength to gold as a currency. This is a conflict of interest on behalf of the bank. In reality, the bank doesn't want any gold AND it doesn't want to hold any foreign currency. What they want is the right to collect interest in the country of origin and they get this right by maintaining the people's confidence in the currency of that state. The official stand of every central bank must be that gold threatens the local currency – thus everything must be done to discredit gold and strengthen the people's confidence in the local currency.

Even when you look at the European banks, you don't see them buying gold. Rather, they are working hard to maintain confidence in the fiat currency and have used gold with a strategic purpose. They even sell gold into the markets reducing their hoard knowing that by doing so they strengthen their currency. The number one priority of a central bank is to maintain the right to print the local currency. You do that at all costs.

Today, I believe (which may change tomorrow) that the game of gold hoarding is a very strategic game. The political units all around the world give lip service to hoarding, but do not. Statement after statement comes out of China, always from some underling, that says the country should buy more gold for its reserve. But does China? Does the official state bank do this? No. They will not. They have no motivation to do so. But, by speaking so, will they encourage the private sector to by gold? Absolutely! The goal is to seed the country with gold. It doesn't matter who has the gold, it only matters that the gold exists in the country so that it can trade freely.

IMHO, all the countries that have been talking about gold in the last few years have spoken publicly words that it cannot follow through on privately. Thus, what I would expect that we will see is that every central bank will speak favorably of gold, but will not actually buy it for itself. Rather, they will encourage the private sector to gather the gold. When you really think about it, any central bank that hoard gold will be an easy target for war. Any central bank that disperses the gold through its citizenship will grow rich through dispersion.

Following this thinking, the words from the UAE governor say to the world – we are not hoarding gold and we are following the rules to support the US Currency (so don't kill us!). Meanwhile, the private citizens race to gold in any way that they can.

I challenge everyone in this forum to investigate the value of the gold hoards of the central banks and compare that to the value of the fiat currency that they print. There is NO comparison. Then look at the political games that they must play as to not be labeled a terrorist state. They are doing everything that they can to not be labeled this way. At the same time, they ALL know that if enough people (ants) buy gold the weakness of the Strong Dollar policy will be exposed. The ants will establish the next defacto reserve currency through their actions and no central bank will be blamed for the broken system. If it works, the war to support the US Dollar will be very limited. This is in the interest of all people living on this planet today.

melda laureHisenno! Into the fog.#1457507/4/06; 00:21:35

I would guess the UAE statement implies a threat to intervene in the physical markets if the price falls any further. Yes, sir Flatliner, "Too expensive" may mean the consequences are too great at present, but perhaps when freefall commences the consequences become moot and they w ill no longer stay their hand. Given the enormous paperization of the commodities exchanges, a "fall" is quite likely at some point as the buyers wise up and walk away.

Dr Feteke spoke of the "last contago" a while back, and more recently on the "disappearing basis". We now have a flat yield curve, perhaps soon, a flat AU futures? Unfortunately with all the paperization both in comex and on other lease markets, I am somewhat confused as to how one constructs POG basis without any trustworthy prices!

Thus perhaps the UAE is the only sort of clue we may get.

Yallume! It seems hard to belive we are at the threshold at last, sir TIH, but there it is: game over, clear the chessboard and lay out the pieces anew. One minor comment regarding Sir Boilermaker's concern over 9/11 Part Deux: it is likely that Mr Bin Laden will wait until the dollar markets are in freefall before any new fireworks shows- that is just a guess. The first event took place when the markets were in virtual free fall. This would seem reasonable- even if you are of the "9/11 was staged" persuasion for it is plain that synchronised disasters always make for bigger headlines.

The derivatives monster will work, until those operating it pull the levers in a new direction, sir Flatliner, it will be interesting to see what notional amount is needed to redirect a tanker to one's home port: zero supply, infinite demand.

Tanya farnuve, enough, what next year's day of independence will bring the passing days alone will reveal, it is no different now than it was on those sultry days in '76, it is the sort of weather that makes you want to check the sharpness of your blade or the condition of one's pantry. The orclings are celebrating early, although fireworks are illegal here! At least someone still ignores authority.

melda laurevinye cermie kintai#1457517/4/06; 00:55:41

View the economy from on high...
KnallgoldANOTHER threatens to buy Gold#1457527/4/06; 01:54:40

"China should take advantage of any weakness in bullion prices to build up its official gold holdings as part of a strategy for diversifying its foreign exchange reserves, a senior government economist said Monday."

KG:A possible take on the UAE Sino messages:deliver Gold or we will go the physical spot market!

GoldiloxThe US Federal Reserve Bank: Dirty Secrets of the Temple#1457537/4/06; 01:57:33


Our Founding Fathers Had Different Ideas Than the Powerful Men who Met on Jekyll Island

Throughout our history, there was disagreement over who should control the power of the nation's money supply and the right to issue it. The Founding Fathers understood that the British Parliament was forced to levy unfair taxes on its American colonies and its own citizens because the Bank of England had run up so much debt the government needed revenue to reduce it. Benjamin Franklin, in fact, believed that was the real cause of the American Revolution. Most of the Founders also understood the danger that could result from bankers' accumulating too much wealth and power. James Madison, the main drafter of our Constitution, called them "Money Changers," referring to the Bible that said Jesus twice drove the Money Changers from the Temple in Jerusalem 2,000 years ago. Madison said:

"History records that the Money Changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and its issuance."

Thomas Jefferson was just as strong in his condemnation when he said:

"I sincerely believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a money aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs."

Jefferson and Madison understood the dangers of commercial monopolies of all types and tried to assure they never would exist in the new nation. They, in fact, wanted two additional amendments added to the "Bill of Rights" in the Constitution but never got them. They believed to protect the liberty of the people the nation should have "freedom from monopolies in commerce" (what are now giant corporations including the big international banks and Wall Street investment firms) and "freedom from a permanent military," or standing armies. Try to imagine what the country would be like today if Jefferson and Madison had gotten their way - a country without giant predatory corporations exploiting everyone for profit and without a rampaging military waging war on the world, threatening to destroy it, and doing it so those corporate giants could earn even greater profits.

They never did, of course, and the people have paid dearly ever since including the great harm caused because the government relinquished its right to control the nation's money supply. It gave it away secretly with the public none the wiser, never knowing how greatly it's been harmed. It's been even worse since the 1980s because the power of the Fed grew under a friendly Republican president, and the corporate media led cheerleading for it hid the effect. For them, no public demeaning of it, its giant member banks or Wall Street allies is allowed.

Things were especially out of hand during the tenure of Alan Greenspan - a Fed chairman no one should have found much reason to cheer either before he headed the Fed when he was a presidential advisor or during the time he did. It was only after his economic consulting firm failed that he went into government service likely because he needed a new line of work. There he managed to become a larger than life seer of central banking who was elevated to near sainthood by the business pundits who thought under his tenure the skies were only blue and the few clouds in sight always had silver linings. Now Alan is retired to the greener pastures of lucrative book contracts and speaking engagements, which shows when you do your job well for the rich and powerful (at the expense of the rest of us) who gave it to you, you'll be well rewarded in the end. It's likely the new Fed chairman has taken note and will dutifully try to follow in the tradition that preceded him.

But try imagining a different sort of Fed chairman, one who knew, believed in and practiced the words and wisdom of another American president of some note - Abraham Lincoln. In 1886 Lincoln said the following: "The money powers prey upon the nation in times of peace and conspire against it in times of adversity. It is more despotic than a monarch, more insolent than autocracy and more selfish than a bureaucracy. It denounces, as public enemies, all who question its methods or throw light upon its crimes. I have two great enemies, the Southern Army in front of me and the bankers in the rear. Of the two, the one at the rear is my greatest foe."

Lincoln also appears to have said (although some dispute it): "I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country.....corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed." Imagine what Lincoln might say today.

Given Lincoln's sentiment about the bankers and money power of the country, it would seem to beg the obvious question: did it play a role in, or was it the reason for, his untimely death at the hands of John Wilkes Booth? The international bankers clearly disliked Lincoln after he managed to get the Congress to pass the Legal Tender Act in 1862 that empowered the US Treasury to issue paper money called "greenbacks." Lincoln needed this legislation after he declined to pay the bankers the usurious 24 - 36% interest rates they demanded on the loans he needed to fund his war with the South. With the new banking law, Lincoln was then able to print up the millions of dollars he needed which was debt and interest free. Clearly this was not what the greedy bankers wanted as they can only profit when they get their pound of flesh from financial transactions they control. Right after the war ended Lincoln was assassinated, and shortly thereafter the so-called Greenback law was rescinded, a new national banking act was passed, and all money became interesting-bearing again.


From a well-written synopsis of FED and CB history, not unlike "Money Masters", or "Wizards of Money" in content. Focused on the behind-the-scenes nature of CB political dabbling.

Topaz@Fekete.#1457547/4/06; 02:03:33

Hadn't seen his latest Melda, spot on imo ...tks.
Silver is toying with backwardation at present ...and if they'd update the Comex Page, I'm sure we'd see quite the flurry in the Warehouse for July Ag deliveries.

I'm not convinced Commodities will START the rout ...I KNOW they'll finish it though.

GoldiloxRealities and Myths of International Tensions#1457557/4/06; 02:21:57


There are great many misunderstandings and confusion both on the Right and Left regarding the nature of the conflicts between Latin American nationalists and US/EU states and multi-national corporations. The first point of clarification is over the nature of the nationalist measures adopted by President Chavez of Venezuela and President Morales of Bolivia. Both regimes have not abolished most of the essential elements of capitalist production, namely private profits, foreign ownership, profit repatriation, market access or supply of gas, energy or other primary goods, nor have they outlawed future foreign investments.

In fact Venezuela's huge Orinoco heavy oil fields, the richest reserves of oil in the world, are still owned by foreign capital. The controversy over President Chavez' radical economic measures revolves around a tax and royalty increase from less than 15% to 33% - a rate which is still below what is paid by oil companies in Canada, the Middle East and Africa. What produced the stream of vitriolic froth from the US and British media (Wall Street Journal, Financial Times, etc) was not a comparative analysis of contemporary tax and royalty rates, but a retrospective comparison to the virtually tax-free past. In fact Chavez and Morales are merely modernizing and updating petrol-nation state relations to present world standards; in a sense they are normalizing regulatory relations in the face of exceptional or windfall profits, resulting from corrupt agreements with complicit state executive officials. The harsh reaction of the US and EU governments and their energy MNCs is a result of having become habituated to thinking that exceptional privileges were the norm of 'capitalist development' rather than the result of venal officials. As a result they resisted the normalization of capitalist relations in Venezuela and Bolivia in which state-private joint ventures and profit sharing , common to most other countries. It is not surprising that the president of Royal Dutch Shell, Jeroen van der Veer, advised his oil colleagues that the nationalist position of oil rich countries and their redrawing of contracts is a "new reality" that international energy companies have to accept. Van der Veer, the realist, puts the nationalist reforms in perspective: "In Venezuela we were one of the first to renegotiate. Under the circumstances we are quite satisfied we can work our future there. We have harmony with the government, which is very important. In Bolivia, I assume we will come to a solution" (Financial Times, May 13, 2006 page 9). Likewise Pan Andean Resources (PAR), an Irish gas and energy company stated it could successfully operate in Bolivia following Morales "nationalization" declaration. David Horgan, President of PAR, in justifying a joint venture in gas with the Bolivians, stated, "We don't really care what precedents it (PAR's gas agreement with the Bolivian state) sets. What the majors (big oil companies) see as a problem, we see as an opportunity" (Financial Times, May 13, 2006).

In fact in Bolivia on May 29, 2006, the Morales government announced the winning bid to the world's biggest private mining companies competing to exploit state-owned Mutun with 40 billion tons of iron ore. The new terms of the Bolivian government as outlined by its principle ideologue, Vice President Linera, provides judicial and stable guarantees for all investments, in exchange for a profit sharing and joint management schemes. Clearly the big mining corporations are part of the "realist" school of reaping big profits of strategic high-prices raw materials in exchange for paying higher taxes and including Bolivian technocrats in their management team.

The major points of conflict are not capitalism's aversion to socialism, nor even private ownership versus nationalization of property, let alone social revolution leading to an egalitarian society. The major conflicts are over: 1) Increases in taxation, prices and royalty payments, 2) the conversion of firms to joint ventures, 3) representation on corporate boards of directors, 4) distribution of shareholdings between foreign appointed and state-appointed executives, 5) the legal right to revise contracts, 6) compensation payments for presumed assets and 7) management of distribution and export sales.

These proposed regulations and reforms may increase state reserves and influence but none of these points of conflict involve a revolutionary transformation of property or social relations of production. The proposed changes are reforms, which resonate with the policies undertaken by European social democratic parties between 1946 and the 1960s and by most of the world's oil producing countries in the 1970's, including Arab monarchies and Islamic and secular republics. In fact earlier political regimes in both Venezuela (1976) and Bolivia (1952 and 1968) took far more radical measures in nationalizing petroleum and other mining sectors.

Venezuela has increased royalty and tax payments of international petroleum companies because they were far below global levels. Except for a few smaller operations which refused the new rules of the game and were expropriated, none of the biggest firms were seized, nor were worker-employer relations altered in the (PVDSA) state firm or in any of the foreign companies. Their conventional vertical structures remain intact as many rank and file trade unionists complain. Over the past three years all the major US/EU petrol firms operating in Venezuela have been earning record profits exceeding their historical highs by several billion (Euros or dollars). Bolivarian revolutionary discourses notwithstanding, none of the oil majors has indicated any intention of abandoning lucrative arrangements with the Venezuelan state, despite the heated rhetorical ejaculations from Washington or Brussels.

The US and EU conflict with Venezuela is over politics and ideology as much as it is over the power and profits of their oil companies. They object that Venezuela's mixed economy, higher tax model will replace the de-regulated, low tax, privatization and denationalization model prevalent in Latin America since the 1970's and currently being promoted elsewhere (Libya, Iraq, Indonesia, Brazil and Mexico). The key problem is that President Chavez, operating from a strong national economic and political base, resulting from the added oil resources, has argued for greater regional integration - free of US/EU domination. This has angered Washington and Brussels, as they fear that greater Latin American integration may limit future market and investment penetration. In world politics Chavez' embrace and defense of self-determination of all nations, has put him in opposition to the US military intervention in Iraq, US/EU occupation of Afghanistan and their joint war threats against Iran. Chavez' position is in part due to US involvement in a failed military coup in his country in 2002.

In summary, the conflict is between democratically elected nationalist leaders supporting a mixed economy to finance social welfare against the US and EU empire building, interventionist policies intent on preserving the "Golden Age" of pillage of unregulated privatized economies and their privileged excessively low tax payments in exploiting energy resources.


It's interesting that groups demanding access to the profits of their indigenous resoucres are branded "Leftist", while those demanding feudal ownership of the assets are labeled "Free Market". My guess is that the stereotypes all originate in the allegiences of the authors, while the real battle that continues unabated is the "haves" vs. the "have-nots", be they of foreign or local origin.

GoldiloxAnt colonies on the global chess board#1457567/4/06; 02:34:32

@ Flatliner,

Your "ant colony" analogy makes for some interesting speculation, as it offers potential individual solutions to two opposing end-games.

1) the demise of globalism and feudal control
2) personal insurance during success of globalism and further demise of nationalism.

1) bishop takes queen, check
2) rook takes bishop, out of check

but in either case, invariably, "king rooks pawns".

GoldiloxOT - Senator downloads Internet#1457577/4/06; 02:59:33


A US senator who is one the ringleaders against 'net neutrality' provisions in recent US telecom laws has claimed that he had to do so because the Internet was too slow when he downloaded it.

Senator Ted Stevens who is a Republican from Alaska in a committee transcipt printed by Wired, here, complained that the Internet was sent to him by his staff at 10 o'clock in the morning on Friday, but it took days for him to get it.

He said that it was because "it got tangled up with all these things going on the internet commercially".

"We aren't earning anything by going on that internet. Now I'm not saying you have to or you want to discriminate against those people," he said cryptically.

Stevens said that the regulatory approach was wrong because it claimed that "no one can charge anyone for massively invading this world of the internet".

He said it was important that people understood his position and we agree. He claimed that those who favoured net neutrality wanted to deliver vast amounts of information over the internet. But, he said "the internet is not something you just dump something on. It's not a truck" no sir, "It's a series of tubes", he said sagely.

Just in case you did not get the metaphor he went on to comment that those tubes can be filled.

"If they are filled, when you put your message in, it gets in line and its going to be delayed by anyone that puts into that tube enormous amounts of material, enormous amounts of material," he explained.

Stevens seemed to be getting hot under the collar by this point and said some even more technological things including:

"We have a separate Department of Defense internet now, did you know that? Because they have to have theirs delivered immediately. They can't afford getting delayed by other people."

It is that level of technical expertise that gets you to be the chairman of the Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee. It also means that you get to have those nice people from the telco's lobby groups explain the issues to you nice and simply.


After suffering years of Nodoze in IEEE network and security discussions (we called the plenary sessions 'CSPAN dress rehearsals'), I think that for the "Chair" of the communications committee to be so blatantly ignorant of a major subject of his legislative focus is unconscionable. My experience with government and the Internet is that they are often too challenged by security risks and "protocol change" to even use the computers the tax-payers have procured for them - at great expense.

It's no wonder they want their corporate "sponsors" to dictate "usage rules" to them.

The Invisible HandHistory happening before our eyes#1457587/4/06; 04:37:37

The imbeciles are continuing to dematerialise,
paperise, more and more assets.
This is the ultimate perversion of gamblers on price
fluctuations without any tangible (physical)

The UAE and other Arabs, the Chinese, the Russians,
the Indians, the EU-ers and others are gradually switching into gold-mode.

This is a real transition (gold wealth reserve)
which is happening as my finger is struggling with the

Gold DISCONNECTED from money, disconnected from the
(rijks-)daalder, euhr dollar.

Gold is no longer a hedge, but wealth. Thus the
arch-enemy of the dollar wealth which is determined
by the US of A dollar regime.

Yhrough marking their gold reserves to market prices,
the Middle-East, Russia, India and Europe are
confirming that they want their wealth confirmed in
Freegold, and not destroyed by the continually
devaluing/eroding dollar unit.

Freegold means the castration of the infantilly
conceited dollar regime and its supporters.
Yes, this is painful.
For a certain powerful lobby in the US of A, it must
be even more painfail to be taught this lesson by
This must be even more painful for them than the
halving of the gold price.

Neither do the Chinese want to be told by the
neocon cowboys what to do.

The Sultan is even alluding on/to the "appropriate"
purchasing price AND timing.
He's very accommodative for/to the US of A and its
He is thereby suggesting that the bombing of the
price of gold is non nonsensical because Arabian oil money
is buying gold
Ja watte!

There's a transition happening whereby gold is no
more seen as money but as a wealth reserve.


Das Geschehen an den Finanzmaerkten ist in seiner
Bedeutung nicht auf den Finanzbereich beschraenkt.
Es hat zuallererst natuerlich erheblichen Einfluss auf
die Wirtdchaft, aber sebstverstaendlich auch auf die
Politik und damit, auf manchmal sehr verschlungenen
Wegen, auf das gesamte Gesellschaftssystem.
Kurzum: Das Geschehen an den Finanzmaerkten beeeinflusst den
Gang der Geschichte.
Roland Leuschel and Claus Vogt
Note to would-be Dolmaetchen/r: I am still in a
internet cafe and I cannot guarantee that I copied the
German correctly. My English must be even more awful
than usual. But I can't wait to arrive home. July 18
is only 14 days away. I again put my hand in fire for
that day. Which hand is for you decide.

GoldiloxGold as wealth#1457597/4/06; 10:25:51

@ TIH,

"There's a transition happening whereby gold is no
more seen as money but as a wealth reserve."

As Frank Zappa would have said, your subtle transition is "the crux of the bisquit".

This difference becomes crucial when (debt-based) money teeters on the edge of "losing credibility". Gold can be "money" and "valued barter commodity", a duality FIAT is unable to maintain in troubled times.

P.S. Don't know about your translations, as my bilingual skills pale in comparison to yours, but your English has been clear and concise. Thanks.

USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.A world of gold at your fingertips...#1457607/4/06; 11:56:04">gold -- a global calling card
melda laurethe forum is quiet, the ants are busy#1457617/4/06; 14:54:18

Begin (mamified rant=1, 0);

3) Rook and Bishop elope and set up dey own chessbo'ad. Yessum! Dat qwite de massif improovlence dawrlin' Looks like you got some low rent howsin' in a one dimensional nativity box on U own carribean island.

Done passed up de masht po-tatoes and set up U own countrey. You'll all be printin' u own dollar mess pretty soom! Now de sh-- dey doin' dowm in Washingtum, dey jus' looks out fo' numbah one. 'n numbah one aint you, why you aint even numbah two! Well ah herd dat sum sheik hav bought new jersey las' week, an you sukkahs got so much nuthin'

} ;

Ah me! That's quite enough of that! Poor Zappa, that's what you get for telling the truth. Sir TIH, at least if you are wrong perhaps it will be the invisible one that gets burned. If we get a reprieve on the 18th this little ant will celebrate and continue picking up those yellow grains.

Sir 'Lox, there isnt any misunderstanding with Morales: it is grandstanding or browbeating. The little man refuses to be a good indian and bow down to wall street, Paul Kruger would no doubt say "but its OUR COUNTRY you want!" yes? How sad. Amusing also that mr DeVeer is a "realist" as he does not have the 101'st and the 3ID to back him up. How pathetic, I've seen better behaviour on many a playground, but then again they play for bigger stakes here.

Manke tanya tuula? Let's uncork it and see if its any good.

GoldendomeThe movie Syriana is now out on DVD.#1457627/4/06; 15:09:36

A worthwhile film (IMO) if you have some relaxation time in front of the TV out of the heat, to spend this 4th.

A film filled with political intrigue...parties playing multiple sides of the mid-east oil and political scene.

I'm watching it for the second time this afternoon. Too many players, with multiple loyalties to catch all the levels of deceit and sellouts, the first time through.

Highly recommend!

melda laureGod help us, we are going to need a scapegoat.#1457637/4/06; 16:00:38

Ya auta yeste? That's right, fresh blood and lots of it. The mechica were unjustly called savages, for they knew that huzilipochtli said "both the tree of tyranny and the tree of liberty are watered with blood." Alas it proved only too true when at last wisdom failed. Yet not many years later, another nation was given the same truth, when Findecarnil said much the same though in other words.

Already the new iraqi government suspect that to kill the tree they must stop watering it, an idea not popular in growth obsessed Washington.

Which tree do we tend?

GoldiloxExcellent transcription#1457647/4/06; 17:31:44

@ melda laure,

Nice Eubonics transcripshun. You obviously "know what U is!"

It's not nice to insult da Tipper dureen de CONgreshonul testi-moneys!

"Mrs. Gore, perhaps you wouldn't need "warning labels" on your children's music if you stayed home once in a while and listened to it with them!" LOL

Sad state of affairs in Washingdumb, indeed.

GOLD FINGERPOW!#1457657/4/06; 18:26:08

I am not sure what I want to watch more....all the fire works or the POG chart showing gold's continued upward gains.

Maybe with all the independence news it will "sky rocket" past 725. After all the US did get the shuttle up and the North Korean's missed their target (??).

So who do I call to place my order when everyone is home enjoying Hot Dogs??

GoldendomeRockets red glare.#1457667/4/06; 23:24:23

North Korea assists the U.S. in celebrating the Fourth of July by test firing a number of their missiles over the Sea of Japan.
melda laureIsilenno, sir GF, to the moon.#1457677/4/06; 23:41:08

I wonder if Pyongyang mission control had "a problem" or if the russians used some of that tesla magic? We will never know.

I think it was Mogambo who said he could no longer bear to watch Bernanke, it was so much theater of the absurd. Richard Doughty refers to his rants as "an avocational exercise to heap disrespect on those who desperately deserve it." Though it is probably a bit over the top for these august proceedings, (at least while we are sober).

Zimbabwe, here we come. Whatever reputation Mugabe had is going south with the value of his paper, soon he may not even be able to buy protection.

SundeckVariations on a theme...#1457687/5/06; 00:26:29


Since then there has already been considerable criticism of the roles of IMF and the World Bank. The above mentioned problems and the ongoing trade imbalance in the world have to be addressed by a similar gathering. Sooner or later, both the United States and the rest of the world have to address the existing problems. This problem is not United States alone. We can not ignore the largest economy on earth. It is said that if United States sneezes, the world catches cold. We have to either make sure that United States doesn't catch cold or vaccinate ourselves against it.

Sundeck: More of the same from Mr Bakhtiar...I recommend a little golden vaccine...

Welcome back Sierra Madre...I don't know if gold HAS to be a part of the new monetary order, but the calls for thinking/action towards a new monetary system are becoming more persistent...

Who won the Mexican election?

My, it's quiet on the forum...hope Uncle Sam had a nice birthday...



SundeckWorst behind us?#1457697/5/06; 04:30:42

A snippit from Paul van Eeden's latest...

Last week I saw an article quoting Daniel Gros, a director of the Centre of European Policy Studies (CEPS) saying that accounting errors in America's balance of payments and net international investment position add up to a staggering $2.7 trillion. His prediction: A substantial depreciation of the US dollar.

Sundeck: "Accounting errors"??? Does anyone know anything about this? Paul is optimistic about the gold price moving to four figures as the dollar corrects against other major currencies (see link). He thinks that base-metal prices are too high. (I am not so sure...I suspect they have quite a way to run.) But DYODD...


SundeckBlack gold from coal in Illinois#1457707/5/06; 05:13:42

With high (and rising) oil prices the game changes...Illinois alone has more energy available in its coal than in all of Saudi Arabia (see link)...and foreign wars don't have to be fought to get at it...but:

"What does one do with the C O 2"??

I suspect the next few years are going to see America bite the bullet and go for local energy sources in a big way...


1. May not be able to afford to buy oil from other countries with a "dirt dollar",

2. Overwhelming domestic resentment at having its kids shot-up in foreign lands in pursuit of the "energy security phantom",

3. Weight of domestic scientific reason and technological application (Americans have been good at these tings over the years) eventually win-out over expeditionary zeal and neo-lunacy,

4. Realisation that every threat is also an economic opportunity...and America sure needs some domestic opportunities into which it can invest, rather than exporting its dollars to foreign lands for short-lived luxuries.

5. Some slave of reason will whisper into George W. Bush's ear: "Stop your corn-liquor-dreaming and give up smoking switch-grass and you may yet become immortal!"

Just one poor man's thoughts as another Independence Day recedes into the mists of time...


Topaz@Sundeck.#1457717/5/06; 06:28:23

Oil Shale, Oil Sands, "Fossil" Fuel ...just for public consumption mate.
Remember when we did all this back in the 80's ...and the Oil @ $10 or less that followed?
$70 Oil is a problem yes, but a problem of the Dollars making, not Oils IMO.
I even made myself financially familiar with a deposit in Lithgow ...Glen Davis ...only to come up disappointed...back then, sigh!
Thankfully there was a bit of Gold in them thar same hills also.
Fool me twice!

OvSThe Paulson Effect?#1457727/5/06; 10:03:08

Smash the Gold exuberance.
Contain the rising gold
price within the moderately
rising Paulson band?
That would be nothing new.
That has been the trend since
mid 1999. If you extrapolate
that trend,let's say for
another 14 years, I'll be
dead, but my kids would do
alright. :-) OvS

GoldiloxEnron founder Ken Lay dies#1457737/5/06; 11:50:09


NEW YORK ( -- Kenneth Lay, who rose from a poor preacher's son to become a millionaire before being convicted of corporate fraud, died early Wednesday in Aspen, Colo., a family spokeswoman said.

Lay, 64, was awaiting sentencing after being found guilty of conspiracy and fraud in the Enron trial in May.

In a statement, spokeswoman Kelly Kimberly said, "The Lays have a very large family with whom they need to communicate, and out of respect for the family we will release further details at a later time."

Lay "suffered a massive coronary and died," according to his pastor, Dr. Steve Wende of Houston's First United Methodist Church. "Apparently, his heart simply gave out."


No more digging in this ENRON closet.

TownCrierFlatliner quote (July 3rd, msg#: 145737)#1457747/5/06; 13:55:44

Paraphrasing... on the possibility of a necessary separation of metallic penny coins from the monetary system...

"It will be interesting as people discover that gold coins are comparable to pennies. That is, the face value of a penny [as a unit of contract] is lower then it's intrinsic [metal] value. The same thing exists in the gold market where (under the control of the Strong Dollar policy) the market price [set as a unit of contract] of gold is much lower then its function [as rare metallic property]."

[A GREAT soundbite. ...and continuing...]

"What is the real intrinsic value of an ounce of gold? How long until some big economy defaults on it's commitments and sets the world market's free to chase gold? It is then that we will see what the intrinsic value of gold is."

Of course, this is best read in conjunction with the earlier post, July 3rd msg#: 145735 -- worthy of a Master's degree in Political Economics for all who follow along.

Thanks as always.


GoldiloxFlatliner's July 3 post#1457757/5/06; 15:12:37


I nominate Flatliner's 7/3 post for HOF status.

Any seconds?

FlatlinerWhere, oh where, have the June numbers gone?#1457767/5/06; 15:15:38

Warehouse stocks never seem to change much… It's like watching water boil or the tide roll out.

Registered 5,325,040
Eligible 2,706,153

But I am most curious if these numbers mean anything to Topaz. Anything?

DruidGoldilox (7/5/06; 15:12:37MT - msg#: 145775)#1457777/5/06; 15:25:00

Druid: which one G? He easily cleared the fence with posts 145735, 145737 & 145749. Great job FL.
FlatlinerHOF?#1457787/5/06; 15:35:14

That is an honor all fear! Who wants to see their broken English and mis-spellings living any longer then one day in the eyes of all lurkers in the forum? Laugh today, and we all drink in friendship. Laugh forever, and one will drowned in sorrow.

He who can participate in the physical market today is just another ant in the larger scheme of things. Fear and rejoice in ants. They can endure great pain and still provide more then their fair contribution to the whole.

They world may not end, but ants are empowered with more fiat then they know what to do with right now. We watch as big investors find security in gold and wait for the next opportunity to arise. The further out the opportunity, the more big investors arrive at gold's gate to wait. If those that find security in gold are little, that opportunity is way out. If those that arrive are great, opportunity knocks.

GOLD FINGERHe wants ALL my gold!#1457797/5/06; 17:14:29


Thank you all for your input. It's most enlightening!!

Last night I was moving from one station to the other and trying to see some good fire works on TV and well there was plenty of conversation about Korea's failed rockets, the shuttle launch and even Mr. President G. Bush who will be 60 years old on Thursday.

To no avail I was really unable to find anything very amusing as I never watch television unless it's some world event or a good sports event. As I rolled over I begun hear an info commercial claiming they would send me a so called "GOLD PACKET" to buy ALL my unwanted gold jewelry. Now this caught my attention and the next thing I noticed was the man in the commercial waving around a hand of cash fanned out to look like it was a BUNCH OF MONEY!!

He went on how they would send the gold packet to you FREE and all you had to do was drop in your OLD GOLD and then cash would be sent to you fast. NOW this was really amusing and I bet we could all think about it more in depth. I think someone is really desperate for GOLD and I know my wish of 900 is the true lurker on the forum~

buy buy!

USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.You are invited to join the NewsGroup#1457807/5/06; 17:31:15">join the newsgroup
GoldiloxGold availability#1457817/5/06; 17:55:08

@ Gold Finger,

I talked to my dealer today (the by-appointment wholesaler for all the local coin shops), and he enlightened me to margin vs. availabilty.

He says he is sometimes able to pay or sell a point or two above or below "list" and it's all dependent on the availability and demand from his largest clients.

One day it might be four points, another five.

He also warned me to expect larger margins when the demand curve gets rolling, as supply will be tighter.

Very interesting conversation.

He likes bikes, too, so we talk scooters and precious when I drop by.

Titan@ Gold Finger & Goldilox#1457827/5/06; 18:50:56

I've seen ads like that too, GF. I'll bet they pay you a generous $500/oz. or somesuch!

Goldi -- you're fortunate to be able to cut out the middleman when you need to shop locally. How'd you happen upon that? Even if I couldn't buy direct from my coin shop's supplier, I'm still wondering how the whole system works, and how many layers there are between me and the mine!

GOLD FINGERBuying Gold#1457837/5/06; 19:08:20

I live out west and fortunate to have some world class gold dealers. I for one will stick with our HOST>>>USA GOLD! They are fair and I TRUST THEM. Most of these 2 timers I see are not that trustworthy and have a limited supply. I live close to historic areas that are well know for prospecting and hell I can take my shovel and go if I really need to. Panning for gold? Well, I would rather purchase it from USAGOLD!


TownCrierGoldilox, this is nearly amazing...#1457847/5/06; 19:17:33

"I talked to my dealer today (the by-appointment wholesaler for all the local coin shops), and he enlightened me to margin vs. availabilty."

Hmmmm... I seem to recall a recent event in which, in response to your wide misrepresentation of research and commentary by Hernando de Soto, I pointed out your certain persistant and debilitating anti-banking and anti-establishment blinders. In your over-the-top response you quickly accused me of "abuse of power" and then firmly suggested that my unstated transgressions might very much jeopardize your personal business relationship with our host, Cententennial Precious Metals.

What have you done to your integrity if these are your true colors on display?

Clearly, everyone is free to do business with whomever they choose, and I know Cententennial would greatly enjoy receiving every visitor's business a a show of their personal loyalty and appreciation for the great prices and for the educational website and services that USAGOLD-Centennial provides for their benefit; but you seem to be running fast and loose with regard to your 'relationship' with the firm. Apparently, so far as you are concerned, everyone else around here can "go pound sand" so long as you are allowed uncontested freedom to have your say in complete disregard to the actual truth or the consequences?

Without needing to point it out like this I would hope it would have occurred to you that a lot of people -- all over the world -- have worked with too much dedication to simply sit back and say nothing while being walked on without so much basic courtesy as a blunt warning, "Excuse me, get out of my way 'cause I'm Goldilox and I'm comin' through!"

Food for thought.


MKSierra Madre#1457857/5/06; 19:22:55

Thanks for the comment.

The closer to today that the monetary conference is called the better for the United States. That statement might seem innocuous at first blush, but condiser the fact that the United States is already discounting bond tranches to selective buyers, i.e., some of the Gulf States, Japan. See today's NewsGroup.

Consider for a moment: Are the world's major players best served by waiting until a collapse occurs in order to advance their interests? Or would it be better to commit to a good-faith negotiation now?

Maybe that's why someone the calibre of Paulson is on board. We'll see as the weeks and months unfold.

Welcome back, Sierra.

MKSierra. . .#1457867/5/06; 19:26:38

By the way, I agree with you. We're reduced to a couple of options. Either way, the price of gold in nominal terms is likely to soar.
TopazRandy.#1457887/5/06; 19:54:36

I must say how thrilled I am with the introduction of a 9999 US Bullion Coin and your promotion thereof.
As you may be aware, I have not yet done business with USAGold CPM, largely due to our (Australia's) restrictive GST requirements on all but 24ct Coins.
I say "largely" because it was not that long ago (last year) that I in fact fully intended to provide "nourishment" when visiting the States.
The sad upshot was we went to Las Vegas first and my "pile" was diminished to such a degree that it would have been an embarrassment walking in the front door.
We did enjoy a nice few days in Denver though and Bellagio DID cough up one of their 1oz Silver tokens for less than Spot so all wasn't too bad ...
...but I digress, rest assured TC, these new Bullion Buffaloes at 24ct will open up some real international possibilities not only with mois, but also with the hundreds who watch and learn from these pages on a regular basis.

Well done TC and USAGold.

USAGOLD Daily Market ReportPage Update!#1457897/5/06; 20:17:53">
The Daily Gold Market Report has been updated.

If you are considering investments in gold we invite you to">request our free introductory information packet detailing the products and services offered by USAGOLD ~ Centennial Precious Metals. We welcome your inquiry and look forward to working with you.

WEDNESDAY Market Excerpts

Gold at 1-mo high as rockets fly

July 5 (from MarketWatch) -- Gold futures closed Wednesday at their highest levels in a month as news that North Korea tested at least seven missiles created safe-haven demand for the precious metals.

August contracts rose $13.70, or 2.2%, to close at $629.70 on the New York Mercantile Exchange after peaking at $631.90. The contract hasn't traded or closed at levels this high since June 7.

"The rockets' red glare was more than just lyrics yesterday as the belligerent firing of missiles by North Korea spooked investors," said Kevin Kerr, editor of Global Resources Trader, a newsletter published by MarketWatch.

"The markets are going to be walking on eggshells until the response form the West is clear," he said.

Gold's safe-haven status in the wake of the missile tests only embellished the strength it's enjoyed over the last week, Kerr noted.

"Gold's more vocal detractors of late are being muted by the realization that that the yellow metal is a true 'flight to quality' instrument and that's piled on top of the recent strength we have seen in gold anyway after the FOMC announcement" last week, he said.

As Americans observed the July 4 holiday, North Korea launched at least six missiles, including a Taepodong-2 long-range ballistic missile thought to be capable of delivering a nuclear warhead as far Alaska or Hawaii, according to reports.

Japanese Foreign Minister Taro Aso said Wednesday Japan may impose economic sanctions on North Korea, potentially including a ban of financial transactions and a ban on North Korean ships from sailing to Japan's ports, according to reports. The Security Council held an emergency meeting Wednesday, but no draft resolution was introduced, according to the Associated Press.

"In the meantime, those that doubted gold's strength are getting yet another lesson of how worldwide geopolitical uncertainty can drive investors into the yellow metal in a heartbeat, and the big loser at least for now is the dollar and yen," said Kerr.

In other world news, Iran and the European Union had been scheduled to meet Wednesday in Brussels to discuss incentives aimed at halting Tehran's nuclear activities. But the meeting was suddenly postponed to Thursday, with a further meeting on tap for July 11, according to a Reuters report.

The news sent crude to a front-month, closing record of $75.19.

---(see url for full news, 24-hr newswire)---

TopazF-Liner.#1457907/5/06; 20:18:16

No Sir, I don't watch the inventory situation, Sir Aristotle had the inside running on EandR but from memory he didn't put too much emphasis on the changing numbers. (Hi Ari, wherever you are)
There seems to be a lot of "lax" reporting of late (not updating etc.) sign of the times maybe!

We finally got a deliver notice update today ...went from 29 June to 5 July and ...wouldn't you know it ...back to normal.

Randy: The one consolation I draw from paying WAY TOO MUCH for a 1 oz Bellagio Token is that ONE DAY, I might see it as a BARGAIN ;-)

NedOnly the good die young?#1457917/5/06; 20:23:49

TopazDX, Bonds etc. #1457927/5/06; 20:48:20

Just did a quick rip around the Currency planet and there's a disturbing trend developing imo which bears watching.

DX is trucking along circa 85 but quite a few of the "minor" currencies (NOT in the DX mix) are taking it in the neck.
Statements we hear from CB's re: Buying Gold if the price drops may well be warnings to the Hot-Money Market not to try these devals on the precious imo.

Chris PowellArabian Business magazine cites GATA's work#1457937/5/06; 21:22:53

11p ET Wednesday, July 5, 2006

Dear Friend of GATA and Gold:

The essay appended here was published Sunday in the
magazine Arabian Business, a regional publication
based in Dubai, and incorporated research by Adrian
Douglas, a gold market analyst and frequent
contributor to GATA Chairman Bill Murphy's
subscription Internet site,

CHRIS POWELL, Secretary/Treasurer
Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee Inc.

* * *

Where Banks Bury Their Gold

Faced with gold price increases, central banks are
accused of a grand conspiracy to manipulate global
movements of money. Stephen Corley reports.

By Stephen Corley
Arabian Business, Dubai
Sunday, July 2, 2006

Having already survived the resurgence of flares,
platform shoes, and the reincarnation of aging rock
bands, investors are now being buffeted by the return
of commodity market trends from the 1970s.

Security worries in Iran, rampant demand from emerging
market economies, and the motorist's love affair with
gas-guzzling vehicles have created a prolonged spike
in the oil price that has confounded every prediction
that it could not go any higher.

In addition, thanks to a surge in the metals markets,
the gold bugs crawled out of the woodwork, shouting
that the shiny metal will end inflation worries,
obviate currency risk in your portfolio, and, via a
strange development of autoimmunity drugs based on
precious metals, even cure your rheumatoid arthritis.

The staggering rise in the gold price over the last
year seems to have had its origin in the same worries
that provoked the oil price increase.

Of course, the bulls had another strong ally in their
pocket in the shape of the potential demise of the US
dollar and its predicted failure as a reserve

For traders, manufacturers and retailers in the Gulf
Cooperation Council, the recent unwinding of gold's
meteoric ascent back to levels as low as US$540 must
be a welcome relief.

Dubai, in its capacity as the world’s second largest
importer of the stuff, will have experienced very
serious imbalances. With prices climbing through
US$730 and higher, the risk of business collapse in
some areas was altogether real.

So a welcome and necessary pause, perhaps. After all,
no market moves in straight vertical ascent (not even
property; estate agents please note). But it would be
prudent to be aware of what happened and whether
forces other than normal supply and demand got us to
this point. Gold is unique and occupies an important
place to many because of what it signifies. Its price
increase, to the bulls at least, is a harbinger of all
manner of evils elsewhere in the financial system.

Few economists today advocate a return to the gold
standard. However, many prominent economists are
sympathetic with a hard-currency basis and argue
against fiat money. This school of thought includes
former US Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan, who
said in 2000: "The reason there is very little support
for it is the consequences of those types of market
adjustments are not considered to be appropriate in
the 20th and 21st century. I am one of the rare people
who have still some nostalgic view about the old gold
standard, as you know, but I must tell you, I am in a
very small minority among my colleagues on that

The current monetary system relies on the US dollar as
an "anchor currency" against which major transactions,
such as the price of gold itself, are measured.
Currency instabilities, inconvertibility, and credit
access restriction are a few reasons why the current
system has been criticised. A host of alternatives
have been suggested, including energy-based
currencies, market baskets of currencies, or
commodities; gold is merely one of these alternatives.
The reason these visions are not practically pursued
is much the same reason the gold standard fell apart
in the first place; a fixed rate of exchange decreed
by governments has no organic relationship between the
supply and demand of gold and the supply and demand of

So people place their trust in paper money, even
though it's possible to argue that the acceptance of a
fiat currency is nothing more than a sales job. Gold
advocates maintain that people are naïve and will
believe anything if told enough times. Perpetuation of
the myth, so it goes, needs careful management; a few
key players and mass-market psychology will do the
rest. At present some fund managers and analysts
believe that fiat currency is the greatest con in
history. The gold lobby believes it to be doomed and
that the current environment is poised to deliver the
death blow, whilst governments, in desperation, do
their utmost to fend off the inevitable. When
governments have to manipulate markets, whether stock,
bond, currency, or gold, these are signs of

The US is printing new money at an unprecedented rate,
under which circumstances the dollar would normally
depreciate because of its dilution. This is where
"management" comes into play, through its biggest
"tool" -- the price of gold. As an overprinted
currency depreciates, it would normally cause the
price of gold and silver to rise. When gold and silver
prices rise sharply, that could send a warning signal
that the currency is going south. The US government is
undoubtedly facing the inevitable demise of its
currency but is desperate to delay things. The route
it appears to have taken has been to depress the price
of precious metals by flooding the market through
central bank selling.

It goes without saying that it has been of no small
concern to the central banks that commodities had a
spectacular run in the first 4 1/2 months of the year.
This bull run has been ubiquitous and long-lasting,
with practically all commodities soaring and in many
ways reminiscent of hyperinflation. Clearly the
central banks could not let this state of affairs
continue while claiming that inflation was under
control. They realised that something had to be done
and gold took the brunt of the central banks' attack.
The price of gold is the outwardly public
manifestation of inflation. By bringing gold down, it
must have been hoped that other commodities would be
taken down as well, thus easing inflationary fears.

But therein lies the Achilles' heel of the central
banks. They are relatively impotent when it comes to
controlling the market for real things. As such, there
is little they can do to manipulate the markets for,
say, oil and copper. Oil, for example, trades to the
tune of US$6 billion per day and is too large for
central banks to have any say over. The market for
gold, on the other hand, is only 3 to 4 percent of the
size and the easiest commodity to manipulate in the
short term. Furthermore, the central banks still have
some gold in their vaults as added ammunition. So the
game plan was simple: Hammer gold and cause a selling
panic in all commodities. Although some kind of
correction may have been expected in commodities given
the magnitude of their escalation in such a short
time, the violence of it was orchestrated and in every
which way intended and cajoled by central bank action.

It's not necessary to be a conspiracy theorist to
swallow this one. If you were the head of a central
bank and felt that gold's rise was going to cause you
problems, and you thought you had the means to keep it
from doing so, might you not pull the appropriate
levers? Almost certainly.

So are the central banks manipulating gold? According
to the Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee (GATA), the
answer is very much yes.

For seven years GATA has discovered one piece of
evidence after another supporting the long-held
contention that certain central banks and their
agents, the bullion banks, manage the gold market. It
is a price-fixing case involving some very powerful
people and institutions -- a gold cartel. The US
attorney handling the Samsung conspiracy conviction
said in an interview last year that the US had
experienced an "epidemic" of price-fixing cases in the
late 1990s. All GATA has done is uncovered the
grandest of all.

The mainstream gold world says the central banks have
nearly 32,000 tonnes of gold in their vaults. GATA
says the central banks have less than half of that;
the difference being what was clandestinely fed into
the market to suppress the gold price over the last 10
years. The work of three respected GATA consultants --
Reg Howe, Frank Veneroso, and James Turk -- each using
different methodologies, supports GATA's contention of
vastly diminished central bank gold supply.

If central bank sales cannot halt gold's price rise in
the long term, what about interest rates? Many
analysts incorrectly state that rising rates
strengthen the dollar and make gold go down. This is
true in a stable and strong economy, but the US
economy is arguably a pyramid standing on its point.
Take the yield on 10-year Treasury bonds, which has
been in a well-defined descending channel for 24
years. In June, however, it closed at 5.23 percent.
Though six years ago the yield moved slightly above
the upper resistance line, there has never been a
confirmed breakout in 24 years -- until now -- and the
implications could be enormous. It's the 10-year
Treasury rate that drives the mortgage market, where
the ever-decreasing cost of borrowing has fuelled an
unprecedented boom in house purchases and refinancing.

If the new Fed chairman, Ben Bernanke, has a moment of
hesitation and opts for a pause in rate increases, the
dollar is going to tumble, which will in turn lessen
the appetite of foreigners to hold US assets,
particularly bonds. Alternatively, any rate hike
whatsoever, virtually a certainty under Bernanke, is
going to add fuel to this rate breakout, rendering it
irreversible. In the last great gold bull market, the
yield on the 10-year Treasury went from 6 percent in
1971 to 15 percent in 1981.

Trillions of dollars have been created over the last 2
1/2 decades that have not had an inflationary impact
because they have been hoarded as the world's reserve
currency or been used to purchase Treasuries, which
was the principle driver of the declining rate trend.
As these dollars are discarded, the inflationary
effects will potentially be enormous, which is
conducive to funds seeking out what the bugs believe
to be the only real money in the world: gold.

The Invisible HandHedge funds - the ultimate irony of paper money#1457947/5/06; 21:37:47

Wall Street Journal Asia, July 05, 2006, p. 2
Hong Kong looks at markets
Report recommends new rules regulating busiess competition
insert: Hong Kong is one of the few advanced economies that lacks broad antitrust laws

Financial Times Asia July 05, 2006, p.7
Hong Kong should introduce a broad ranging competition law to improve its antitrust regime and put the territory more in line with [lunatic] international practice.

Wall Street Journal Asia, July 05, 2006, p. 18
EU report urges hedge-fund freedom
The European Commissiomn is calling on national regulators to knock down barriers limiting growth in the European Union's ($325 billion) hedge-fund market.

Financial Times Asia July 05, 2006 , p. 3
EU report urges "light touch" for hedge funds

Roland Leuschel and Claus Vogt,
"Das Greenspan Dossier - Alan und seine Juenger: Bilanz einer Aera - Wie die US-Notenbank das Weltwaehrungssystem gefaehrdet - Oder: Inflation um jeden Preis"
(The Greenspan case - Alan and his children: Balance of an Era - How the Fed endangers the World Monetary System - Or: Inflation at any price")

This is from the preface to the 3rd expanded edition, 2006 (Munich,

p. 56
Hedge Funds sind legitime Kinder unseres Finanzsystem, in dessen Zentrum das staatliche Geldmomopol und die Zentralbanken stehen.
Sie wissen dieses System und seine Instrumente mit unternemischem Gespuuer fuer ihre Zwecke zu nuetzen.
Hedge funds are the legitimate children of our financial systen, in whose centre is the government monetary monopoly and the centrum banks.
The hedge funds know how to exploit the system's weaknesses to their advantage.

Is it clear now why hedge funds will remain unregulated, while bastards want to introduce antitrust law in Hong-Kong?
Gata, can you hear me?

Fortunately, we can always drive Enron to death.

Only the good die young.

Give TRUTH and anarchy a chance.

White HillsTownCrier-THIS IS NEARLY AMAZING#1457957/5/06; 21:41:58

Bravo Sir, It is what I would say if I had your way with words. I have been visiting this forum since 1998 or 1999, I forget which. During that time I have bought gold from USA Gold and have realized a 100% rise in my investment. Although I haven't purchased any gold in the last 3 or 4 years I will buy some soon. I have a little windfall coming and as soon as I get it my my hot little hands it will be on its way to you. I only regret that I didn't have it when the TPTB knocked down gold to around 540.00. It has really pained me to watch the rise knowing how much it was costing me. However I did realize the rise in price with my other yellow horde. I have never been mislead on this forum by USA Gold and I have followed the TRAIL marked by Another and FOA. Thanks to you and thanks to them. White Hills
The Invisible HandThar we go again!#1457967/5/06; 22:21:23

07/04/06 11:12 am (GMT)
LISBON (AFX) - The Bank of Portugal said it has
sold 15 tonnes of gold from its reserves in the last few months.
The bank said the sales were aimed at diversifying
its external reserves, with the proceeds to be kept in a special reserve at the central bank.
The bank said the sales were aimed at diversifying
its external reserves, with the proceeds to be kept in a special reserve at the central bank.

Portugal lost the half final to France, I think.
But even before that loss, it was DIVERSIFYING OUT OF GOLD

Hedge funds must, according to the European Union, remain in place in order to delay the death of the paper money system,
And Portugal, an EU member (and also a euro member I think), must help the EU by selling gold.

If this is not RE-DIS-TRI-BU-TION, what is it?

The snip said:
The bank said the sales were aimed at diversifying
its external reserves, with the proceeds to be kept in a special reserve at the central bank.

So again, "EXTERNAL" reserves...
to be kept in SPECIAL RESERVE"...
(to support the hedge fund industry?)

Why would Portugal prefer the dollar proceeds of the sale to the euro?
Why is 600 dollar a price high enough for Portugal to sell
And why is this same price of 600 dollar low enough for the Sultan to buy? (Right, this is how any buy/sell-contract comes into being.)

Both buyers and sellers of gold are aware of the meaning of the mark to market (MTM) gold concept which is arising. The new concept exist in potency, it is waiting for the event
(July 18, G8 St Petersburg finished, Iran allowed as full member of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization)
which will catapult it into act.
(On the Aristotelian notions of being in act and in potency - see the end of this post)).

a re-dis-tri-bu-tion among central banks of gold metal reserve becomes very useful,
the new status to be (status in potency) of gold can/must then be brought back to its correct proportions.
The theory of Potentiality and Actuality is one of the central themes of Aristotle's philosophy and metaphysics. With these two notions, Aristotle intends to provide a structure for the comprehension of reality. Potency refers, generally, to the capacity or power of a virtual reality to come to be in actuality. In broad terms, potency is a capacity, and actuality is its fulfillment.

Think about it!

SundeckResearch claims gold effectively hedges US dollar depreciation and inflation#1457977/5/06; 22:35:09


The World Gold Council today unveiled research that advises US wealth holders that exposure to gold acts as an effective hedge against future possible dollar depreciation and rising inflation. The research, conducted by Eric J. Levin of the University of Glasgow and Robert E. Wright of the University of Strathclyde, confirms the long-term measurable relationship between the price of gold and the US consumer price index, which substantiates gold's importance as a long-term hedge against inflation.


The study concludes:

"If gold is a long-run hedge against inflation, and if it is true that real dollar depreciation against other currencies is inevitable, US wealth holders should profit from holding gold during this period."


Sundeck: Well, surprise, surprise...but it is nice to know that the word is propagating across the investment world like lightning...and has even reached the halls of the WGC! Glory be!

Still, all facetiousness aside, quite a nice little article...


Flatliner@MK and Sierra Madre#1457987/5/06; 23:10:58

It is most likely that I missed some of the conversation that transpired or that it goes back to far to track, but I will inquire to see if either of you are willing to share a little more about the world's major players. So as to not lose any more context, MK wrote:

"Consider for a moment: Are the world's major players best served by waiting until a collapse occurs in order to advance their interests? Or would it be better to commit to a good-faith negotiation now?"

I am somewhat aware that some in the financial community are asking for an organized decline in the exchange rate of the dollar. It's clearly obvious that this decline is, or would be, in the best interest of the US if you view the export/import balance of trade as seen when you measure goods in the market place. In a utopian environment, balancing trade is a ‘noble’ thing to do that keeps imbalances from building up and helps local businesses plan for the future.

The thing that has me puzzled is why would anyone outside the US see giving up profits as a good thing when the daily headlines show the economy of the US as being so robust? It would be like going out for lunch and willingly paying 7 bucks for a 5 dollar meal. Sure, that extra 2 bucks ‘might’ find it's way into the debt held by the shop, but it will most likely go to buying the owner anther beer after work! The charity that is already on the table is the fact that they are willing to spend the 5 bucks in the shop in the first place rather then walking next door.

I do not see how intentionally adjusting the exchange rate of the dollar downward will help solve anything as long as commodities are exchanged in US dollars. Cutting the value of the dollar in half will most likely double the demand. More dollars will be needed to carry on all types of trade, thus twice as much money will be exported as what is currently done.

This might make the problem twice as bad! Now, twice as many dollars will be flowing into foreign lands and depreciating in those hands at a faster rate. This is really not a very good solution. Meanwhile, the international companies will know this and not hold the US Dollar until they need to bring it home. This will force an even higher money creation rate in countries that collect dollar bills.

I may have this all wrong, but lowering the exchange rate for the US Dollar on world markets doesn't seem like a bright thing to do.

It would seem to me that the plans have already been laid out in front of us all. The US will print trillions of dollars and all foreign countries will be forced to print their own dollars to maintain similar purchasing power – or exchange – in order to maintain their export advantage. While this happens, we will all watch to see who blinks first with regards to interest rate hikes. In the mad rush to devalue the world reserve currency, all countries will fight inflation expectations. Those countries that have a small amount of debt and a large gold reserve will find that they will be able to raise rates high enough to stabilize their currency in this face of world wide inflation. All other currencies will hyper-inflate. The massive amounts of currency created will drive up all commodity prices, including gold (in a big way) in all currencies.

The net affect here is that when the US currency hyper-inflates (which the other countries are going to force in a very non-blamable way) the commodities that are traded in US Dollars around the world will be set free – just like gold. There will no longer be a need through a Strong Dollar policy to control the price of gold (or any other commodity) – there will no longer be a dollar! Oil will no longer be traded in dollars for the same reason. A basket of currencies may prevail as the means of exchange – or a measured weight of gold.

Simple is usually better, gold is simple, gold is good.

So, if I'm hearing you correctly, if the world gets together and consciously lowers the exchange rate of the dollar, all will be well? Today, I believe just the opposite. The goal that the world has is to break the US Strong Dollar policy. Either ants will do it one coin at a time, or imbalances will do the same over time.

GoldiloxTransgressions?#1457997/5/06; 23:42:25


I never slammed you for disagreeing with me, but rather challenged your childish name-calling antics as unprofessional. You currently seem too emotionally affected to discern the difference between the two.

I never understood why my disagreeing with deSoto upon second reading elicited such an emotionally charged outburst, but you never elaborated beyond name-calling, so I forgot about it.

I always welcome debate, as I understand it to be a forum goal, so your accusation that I demand everyone agree with me is emotionally charged horse-hooey. I welcome adult discussion, but rather eschew epithets.

As to your accusation of transgression, I mentioned no other business by name. I merely referenced a conversation with an UNNAMED professional about margins changing with supply and demand and offered his hypothetical example. I fail to see how this differs from posting an opinion by any gold professional not associated with CPM, being careful not to post a link to any competitor. Perhaps you will enlighten me on the nature of this offense.

Nor was there ANY mention of business transacted, so your suggestion of some "fast and loose business relationship" is pure, unfounded extrapolation on your part.

Sounds like you need a vacation.

GoldiloxSierra Madre#1458007/6/06; 00:00:57

@ Flatliner,

It appears to me that the two dollar scenarios you mention are the crux of the rebalancing battle.

While there are many who would benefit from more orderly decline, there are also those who feel so abused by dollar hegemony that they promote collapse of that system.

A third position might be those who wish for "just enough" dollar collapse that their currency has an opportunity to gain control over larger market shares, a sort of currency cold war, so to speak. Russia, Islamic Dinar, or China perhaps?

The complexity of currency markets demands that those with any semblance of currency management powers do their best to maintain trade amidst the pressures from all three (and any other) of these camps.

Am I on track with what you are trying to say?

GOLD FINGERWhat should I buy...#1458017/6/06; 00:58:32

I feel like a kid in a candy shop with all the gold options. I am trying to make a new purchase and just wondering what flavor I should get. I like the new US buffalos and the Eagles are also good, but will this be good considering the gold Confiscation rule if it's ever used or will it even matter?

I want to have a nice pile of GOLD and all tucked away where I can look at it from time to time. Any helpful advise on what you have or will be getting for your gold portfolio would be of interest to me.

My vacation? Nope I am spending the funds on GOLD!

World War 3 stating in here or what??

Armageddon@Gold Finger - Gold Coins and Smiling Buffalo#1458027/6/06; 02:15:28

I think 5 ounces were allowed per person when gold was last confiscated during the depression. Coins that were of "interest to collectors of rare coins" were exempted. Generally this is used to refer to pre-1933 gold coins but I believe the proof versions of the American Eagle and Buffalo would qualify here as well. I bought the 2006 version of the American gold Eagle 1 ounce proof version and it has already sold out at the Mint. I was thinking of buying the new gold buffalo coin but haven't decided yet. The picture of the buffalo on the back seems a little weird to me because it seems the buffalo is smiling and the face is too human looking instead of animal. Also, who is the person on the other side of the coin? I have read on a website it is a composite of two different indian chiefs but does anyone know for sure?

I was all set to get this coin since I heard it had a very famous and sought after design. However, when I actually downloaded a picture of this coin I was sort of diappointed with the design. I guess perhaps I had too high of an expectation for it?

Also, I think I read on the U.S. Mint's website that they are going to soon issue some commemorative type gold coins. I think I'll pass on those since I think they will be harder to sell and I think the subject matter was Presidential wives or something like that which is not interesting to me as a collector.

Also, in terms of gold confiscation, we may not have to worry about that as much as before because there is no gold standard backing the dollar so the Fed can print as many dollars as it want to in order to fight "deflation".

SundeckSA gold price soars to all-time high#1458037/6/06; 04:16:32


The rand price of gold on Thursday climbed to an all-time high above R146 000 per kilogram, eclipsing the previous highs established in May...

Sundeck: Mmmm...another record price in a "non-reserve" currency. Others have recently included the Indian rupee and the Australian dollar...but there are others as well. The US dollar is held up because of its "reserve" role and its use as the "standard" for invoicing and settling international trade...a luxury not befalling the currencies of a lesser god...

Where will it all end?


MatthewBuying Gold#1458047/6/06; 04:19:31

In the UK gold sovereigns and britannias are classed as coin of the realm, thus exempt from capital gains tax on any profit gained when sold.
It might be worth checking if a similar situation exists in the US (I am presuming that you are based in the US).

SundeckChina's gold reserves#1458057/6/06; 04:47:07


"I think the authorities must have realized the need to raise gold reserves, but the problem is how to achieve it," he said.

China's domestic gold output was too small to allow China to add significantly to its 600 tonne holding, while purchases on the open market would be impossible to keep secret.

"I think it's appropriate to increase the proportion to 10-15 percent to match that of some European countries. But that will translate into large demand for gold, which could push bullion prices up sharply on the international market," He said.

For that reason, Wang at Bank of America said he expected China to increase its gold holdings slowly and perhaps hide its hand by buying through the State Reserve Bureau, which manages China's stocks of strategic materials, or other state companies.

"Such transactions may not be reflected on the central bank's balance sheet," he said.

Green at Standard Chartered speculated that the bank had indeed already been buying surreptitiously.

He said the markets were awash with rumors that the central bank's gold holdings were much greater than the published total, which has not changed since the end of 2002.

"It would be very strange if they weren't adding to their pot of gold in the intervening period. But the balance sheet doesn't reflect that," Green said.

"They don't disclose the breakdown of the FX reserves, so if you want to disguise what you're doing in the gold market, then you could simply classify it as an another asset, part of the FX reserves," he added.

Sundeck: Secret buyer? How much gold does the CB of China have? (Comments along the lines of someone on this forum about 6-months ago...was it miner49er???)

SundeckAhhh, yes...#1458067/6/06; 05:22:30

...this was the one I was thinking of...

miner49er (1/12/06; 01:35:57MT - msg#: 140381)
CB Gold Accumulation


KnallgoldSundeck/China#1458077/6/06; 05:24:48

"then you could simply classify it as an ANOTHER asset" ...
SundeckIndeed, Sir Knallgold...#1458087/6/06; 05:29:15

...just ANOTHER asset...


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USAGOLD Daily Market ReportPage Update!#1458107/6/06; 16:34:04">
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THURSDAY Market Excerpts

July 6 (from DowJones) -- Continued geopolitical tensions after North Korean missile tests, a softer U.S. dollar and technical factors all combined to push gold futures higher in New York Thursday, traders and analysts said.

The COMEX August gold contract settled up $6.60 to $636.30. It peaked at $637, its strongest level since June 6.

A combination of factors helped fuel the rally, including a softer U.S. dollar, reported Jim Steel, metals analyst with HSBC. As gold was closing, the euro had risen to $1.2766 from $1.2725 late Wednesday.

"There are also increased geopolitical tensions," said Steel. "The latest is that they (North Korea) might test more missiles. It strikes me that risk of all kinds is being priced back into the market."

The North Korean Foreign Ministry has maintained that the country has the right to missile tests and argued that they are necessary for defense.

Traders also have been citing ongoing concerns about Iran's nuclear program. "The market has been pretty bullish for a while," said one trader. The futures have been on an upswing since a less-hawkish-than-feared statement from the Federal Open Market Committee one week ago.

"It's all technically driven," continued the trader. "People who did not want to get in at the top were looking for a dip to get in. Sub-$600 was cheap gold. So end users, new investors and everybody is trying to get in there."

---(see url for full news, 24-hr newswire)---

TownCrierGreat golden imponderable#1458117/6/06; 16:57:14

[] -- THE last time the London Bullion Market Association (LBMA) met, in Johannesburg during mid-November, a great stir was caused by the prospect the Russian Federation was to double gold reserves.

There was even speculation that South Africa's Tito Mboweni would consider building the country's gold holdings. The view was that the official sector's changing view towards gold would trigger fresh reinvestment in the metal.

But as Kelvin Williams, former AngloGold Ashanti marketing director, pointed out at the latest LBMA function in late June, central banks moved the market far less than people think, certainly far less than the speculators.

Only after central banks announced gold sales in the late nineties did the gold price dip, never before or during their sales. Their involvement was a trigger to speculation. In the opaque world of gold investment, not all is what it seems.

And again, it was seemingly anonymous investors who drove the gold price upwards past $700/oz in May and down $100/oz in the same month.

Even jewellery, considered the bedrock of gold demand, is now thought to be just a different form of investment...

Typically there's no consensus on the gold price. Equally powerful, articulate and learned luminaries argue for and against the metal with equal powers of conviction...

Niall Ferguson, an award winning, Transatlantic writer and broadcaster on economics and history, believes it's premature to think the world could see the imposition of a new gold standard, when fiat paper money was measured against gold as an ultimate currency.

Stack Ferguson against Anthony Fell, chairman of RBC Capital Markets, a highly influential Canadian stockbroker, and a veteran of the gold industry: "Gold is in the early stages of a long-term secular market and it will go higher," he says.

"There's no point in speculating how high it will go, but it will go higher and past all previous levels."

^---(from url)---^

Why does the article's author choose to paint Ferguson's dismissal of a return to a monetary gold standard as though that stance were somehow diametrically opposed to the comments of Fell that gold will "go higher and past all previous levels" -- does the author not want you understand that these two postions are most definitely NOT mutually exclusive?

To be sure, official implementation of a monetary gold standard is the most sure means to cap the market value of gold, whereas letting it remain unpegged to the currency is the necessary freemarket means for it to have freedom to run "past all previous levels".

Tune in, clue in, and consolidate your savings with a goodly portion of the financial world's best kept secret: gold.


melda laureAn impertinent question, TC.#14581207/06/06; 17:05:38

So why couldn't they just print Rubles/Rand and just clean out their domestic refinery?

(Of course some of the SA production has to go to fill hedges.)

TownCriermelda laure, effectively, '...why not print money to get gold?'#1458137/6/06; 17:51:55

The shortest, firmest reason in answering why they don't openly use their power of emission (creation of domestic currency) in the acquisition of gold gets back to Flatliner's recent commentary regarding maintenence of the CB's primary objective. While "price stability" is the oft-cited goal, the whole truth is that price stability is really just one of the primary means to the primary objective which, bluntly, is to maintain the institutional integrity as needed in order to maintain the political authority and ability to issue the domestic currency.

Simple printing of an additional money supply, especially when done in return for hard assets in particular, is taboo. When done in the open for all to see, nothing says "irresponsible (ab)use of power" quite as quickly as this.

It is more subtle to emit new domestic currency (as a CB liability) in counterpoint to taking new foreign currency on board as a CB asset. The trick, then, at that point is to let your unprecedented build-up of foreign currency make the argument that "diversification into gold might be a prudent course of action" such that the ever-opportunistic people take the (giant) steps to do openly what you as a central banker largely cannot -- which is buy gold openly on the domestic market.

That isn't to say that various CBs aren't buying gold; they are -- largely stealthily for technical reasons, and only occasionally openly for political ones.

Bear in mind that the international reserve structure that embraces MTM use of "free(ly floating)gold" does not have any particular mandated level of official CB gold ownership as a prerequisite for use and enjoyment of that system. This is no different than the present world in which we live wherein we see around us some central banks that hold a large portion of their overall assets in the form of foreign reserves whereas there are others who are able to get by with a relatively larger proportion in the form of domestic assets (such as domestically issued bonds or repurchase agreements).

Is that close to the answer you were looking for?


Flatliner@melda laure's - just clean out their domestic refinery#1458147/6/06; 19:20:48

It was over a beer, about a year ago, when I was trying to match wits with a fellow drinker when I asked myself a very similar question. And heck, at the time I was collecting rounds and wondering if I was doing the right thing so I found myself questioning everything that I read! In the conversation, it just slipped out - what's stopping a central bank from simply printing currency and buying up all (most, a hell of a lot of) the gold in the world? I mean, if it were me (an investor at heart), I could see no better way at accumulating an asset and driving the price up at the same time! I guess I thought like a Hunt brother for a few moments.

Eventually, the beer wore off and reality set in.

Fortunately the idea didn't and it's been part of the foundation that helps me interpret what these central bankers are always saying when they babble that double speak.

It is clear by their actions that central banks will do anything to maintain the function of the fiat currency in their local economy. Some economies are greater then others, but in every case, the function of fiat always wins.

Gold is the enemy that must actually be sold, rather then bought in order to support the inflationary tactics used by the state. They want to tax through inflation. It's a tax that people are willing to pay because they just don't understand it – and – it takes … time! Thus, no one sees it coming.

Gold is not the only enemy of Fiat function. The biggest culprit is ‘speculation’. When investors get hot on the heels of something, they drive the price up into bubble territory. Thus, the central banker must step in and put out the fire. What do they do? They take a loss on the books by selling the asset if they can (look at natural gas last fall as a clear example). The idea here is that they are willing to take HUGE loses in order to maintain the function of fiat.

To me, the concept is a clear a day. They are not investors. Their function is profit through confidence that the fiat works as intended.

Knowing that the central bankers are going to do everything that they can to discredit gold, why would anyone – in their right mind – buy gold? That is usually the second question people ask after the first one sinks in.

If central banks sell too much gold (paper) the gold price will dip below mining costs and put the minors out of business. When that happens, the supply significantly dries up. When supply is reduced the day of reckoning is ever so much closer! So, they can't hold the price below the costs of mining. They must keep the mining in good standing – or at least profitable. If this is the case, then it's easy to watch the minors and see how they report on a quarterly basis. In order to keep them minors profitable, the central banks will make it a top priority to keep the minors profitable, thus, the price of gold must mirror real production inflation! Thus, the worst case over time will be that the physical gold holder will get a true inflation ride as a baseline on their holdings.

But it gets better then that. Because people really don't think about inflation, they see any growth in the price of gold as a return on investment that is not matched by the stock market. Thus, as the price goes up – simply maintaining buying power, speculators see it as a bull market and want to jump in. You and I see the fiat currency going down in value but an investor sees the price of gold in a bull market. It's all backwards and upside down and that weirdness works to the disadvantage of the central banks because now they have to take greater loses in order to match the contributions made by speculators which puts even MORE fiat currency causing more inflation that forces the bottom up on gold production which makes for a stronger bull market which brings in even more money (ops, fiat)!

There is a feedback loop in all of this that works against the central banks given time.

As long as the speculators make their investments in gold derivatives, the central banks can take loses and maintain the status quo. It's when these investors call MK and take hundreds of coins that we watch the actual squeeze on fiat. We are witnessing a squeeze and the central banks know it.

The huge payoff to a physical gold holder comes in the form of insurance against government default (fiat default). During this time, all prices are set free in the chaos of trading through the hyper-inflation that occurs. In the end, those that still have assets find their relative status better then those around them. When this happens, gold gives value to life and separates those that thought ahead from those that live for today.

In any case, it is fun to think about what the right to print fiat gives someone yet, at the same time, it's interesting to think about how they have their hands tied.

I forget (intentionally) who it was that laughed with regards to my crazy ideas many months ago and called me an ant and animatedly claimed that the ants would get squashed. As ANOTHER once said "When a thousand hungry lions fight over one scrap of food, small dogs should hide with whats in their belly". There will be a time when hiding is a good thing to do.

spikedogNew wing for the Hall of Fame#1458157/6/06; 19:54:35

Where can I send a donation for the establishment of the new "Flatliner Wing" of the Hall of Fame?

Sir Flatliner, you keep "knockin' em out of the park. Hats off and thank you for your common-speak so that simpletons like me can understand.


The Invisible HandThe Fed's two tasks#1458167/6/06; 20:40:58

I understand

that by setting the federal funds rate (I don't know what that is), the Fed's FOMC steers the economy and that this would be monetary policy

that Another task of the Fed is to print money when its steering of the economy fails, but that this is also monetary policy.

The problem is of course that both tasks are vested in the same body. At least that's how I understand Leuschel and Vogt in their book I quoted yesterrday.

On another subject
On p. 122 Leuschel and Vogt write that the ISLAMIC GOLD DINAR has been described by the Islamic Trading Organization as a test-run for a gold based CHINESE currency.

Ten BearsHenry Paulson and the Five Circles of Economic Hell #1458177/6/06; 21:17:18

by Robert Freeman.

Snippet: Paulson's job, then, is to arrange the write down of debt that must accompany the effective bankruptcy of the U.S. He will have to promise an IMF-like fiscal austerity to foreign lenders to keep the funding flowing until there is nothing left to take. This will mean draconian cuts in social spending, no tariffs, and the removal of all remaining controls on the mobility of, and returns to, capital. The dollar will be precipitously devalued with the consequence of massive inflation and stratospheric interest rates.

The Invisible HandTruth vs Comfort – Life vs Death#1458187/7/06; 01:08:05

In their book to which I referred, Leuschel and Vogt stress that the US of A is not selling gold, whereas some EU countries are selling.
Of course,… Fort Knox is empty.

But apart from that, why are our other learnt commentators formulating 1001 remarks about the policies of the central banks, but are they stubbornly refusing to mention the one gigantic change, the discontinuing of booking the gold reserves of the central banks at a fixed price and the implementing of mark-to-market booking?

Our other learnt commentators are stubbornly refusing to utter a word about this foondamental change.

On pp. 110-111 of their book, Leuschel and Vogt quote the section "Biases in Financial Forecasting" of the memoirs of Henry Kaufman "On Money and Markets"
"… most predictions fall within a rather narrow range that does not deviate from consensus views in the financial community. In large measure, this reflects an all-too-human propensity to minimize risk and avoid isolation. There is, after all , COMNFORT in running with the crowd. Doing to makes it impossible to be singled out for being wrong, and allows one to avoid to be singled out for being wrong, and allows one to avoid the envy or resentment that often inflicts those who are right more often than not."

"The worst loneliness is not to be comfortable with yourself." -- Mark Twain

"To be right, to be the owner of the TRUTH, means to be out alone in front" - The Invisible Hand quoting he doesn't who.

"Reason rejects all external conditioning and expects to "go it alone" based only on what it finds within itself."
(Alejandro Llano, "Gnoseology", Manila: Sinag-Tala Publishers, 2001 (first published in Spanish in 1983 by the Ediciones Universidad de Navarra), p.85)>
Hiding Behind Islamism
by Abid Ullah Jan
(Wednesday July 05 2006)
"It is necessary to understand the links between the present day monetary system, American dominance and fascism. Many of us do not realize the way "Islamism" is used to avoid the global depression on the pattern of the Wall Street crash in 1929. The impending depression is directly linked to the supremacy of the United States."

Titan@ Flatliner - How do we know?#1458197/7/06; 07:22:16

Yesterday Flatliner wrote:

"The huge payoff to a physical gold holder comes in the form of insurance against government default (fiat default). During this time, all prices are set free in the chaos of trading through the hyper-inflation that occurs. In the end, those that still have assets find their relative status better then those around them. When this happens, gold gives value to life and separates those that thought ahead from those that live for today."

I love the sound of that, and I own some physical with the hope that the above is true. But how do we really know that it's true?

I'm not wanting to sound pessimistic or cynical. I just want to really understand why it's true. I mean, it's not like we can look at any recent history and see a parallel to convince. I see this as theory--though a very well thought-out and logical one.

Does it (POG) really HAVE to break free at some point? Or if Hank Paulson is skillful, can he (and Bernanke and others) manage to give the dollar a soft landing, and we just see the price of our gold continue to mirror cost of production plus a little more for inflation?

I'm loving this discussion! Thanks for everyone's great contributions!!

KnallgoldTitan#1458207/7/06; 09:16:00

Hyperinflation IS the soft landing for the dollar!
Titan@ Knallgold#1458217/7/06; 09:39:08

So I guess the "hard landing" is a recession, as the referenced article from yesterday's Christian Science Monitor discusses. It doesn't talk about gold in this article, but I thought it was a good one on the topic of the declining dollar and what is trying to be done about it. Hard-core depression, a la 1929, is recession carried to the extreme?
KnallgoldTitan#1458227/7/06; 10:21:51

From what I gathered on all the writings here,its actually the deflation which is the hard landing (massive credit defaults,cascading bank failures,deep recession/depression,big jobless rate,mortgaged homeowners living under a bridge,SM crash'n'bear,defaults in all trades and exchanges...).

All the imbalances showing their naked nasty faces.

TownCrierOil AND Gold. . . Gold AND Oil. . .#1458237/7/06; 11:34:48

[] -- SOUTH Africa would cooperate with Niger, the west African country, to develop its gold and oil resources, according to the country's foreign minister.

Sapa, a newswire, said the comments were made after a two day state visit by South African president Thabo Mbeki.

^---(from url)---^

It's been ten years now, as the gold price was languishing in the depths of a 20-yr bear market, that ANOTHER and FOA arose publicly to hearten gold investors of the special relationship between oil and gold -- that the flow of the former pivots upon the conditions (and availability) of the latter. In short, a world that requires oil will rediscover a healthy respect for the use of gold -- as wealth rather than as a nominal accounting unit (in name only) in a vast sea of derivative contracts.


Titan@ Knallgold#1458247/7/06; 12:13:22

Yeah, but what'll happen to gold if/when all that happens? I think I believe it's going to go up. But with such large amounts of gold sloshing around between CB's and other secret hoarders, I can't quite understand how I can be sure that will happen. I don't want to be left with no house, no money, and no nothing--but I *do* have this little pile of yellow metal. Who's going to buy that from me so I can feed my family?

The whole picture isn't quite crystal clear for me yet. I think I'm on the right track, but still trying to learn more!

TownCrierAt the risk of appearing petty and isolated, the Truth will nonetheless have its day#1458257/7/06; 12:36:35

While part of me argues to just let this slide, the better part of me insists that I should not let unfounded allegations stand unchallenged, especially insofar as they potentially create a lingering negative impression in the minds of anyone arriving late to the discussion.

Therefore, in regard to Goldilox's recent accusation (msg#: 145799) that I have engaged in "childish name-calling antics", I will let the historical record itself speak largely on my behalf.

In the end, I think it only provides further evidence in support of my initial supposition that Goldilox's world view is disfunctionally skewed by his clearly demonstrated tendency to see the world not as it is, but rather as he WANTS to see it. Thus, in the same way that he (unknowingly?) misrepresented my comments as an emotionally-charged name-calling rant, and just as he (unknowingly?) misrepresented himself as a customer, the pattern would suggest that it is not outside of possibility that he (unknowingly?) misrepresented the research and commentary of deSoto, too, which was the original point of contention in this dialog.

I have nothing more to say on the matter because I think the record (hyperlink above) sufficiently stands on its own.

Apologies to all for this utter waste of time and space.


TownCrierHEADLINE: Seek Shelter In Commodities#1458267/7/06; 13:12:55

07.07.06 --

...With the market burdened by rising global tensions, inflations fears, Fed rate hikes and hurricane season, commodities and commodity-related issues should continue to represent a "safe haven" for investors amid the chaos.

^---(from url)---^

Ugh. How can we forget about the imminent return of hurricane season?


TownCrierGold, palladium seen bucking any metals downturn#1458277/7/06; 13:13:11

Friday, 7 July, 2006
LONDON: Gold will sprint up about 40% in 2006 and continue at a blistering pace next year on anticipated dollar weakness and even if other commodities hit a rough patch, a Reuters poll showed yesterday.

The global poll of 31 analysts and senior traders arrived at an average gold price of $625per troy ounce in 2006, up 40.4% from $445.05 last year and 19% higher from a poll in January for the current year.

Gold was seen rising even further to an average $690.50 in 2007, up 25.6% from the previous forecast in January.

Analysts predict a weakness in the dollar in the long term as the US Federal Reserve could pause its campaign of monetary tightening and some Asian and European central banks might raise interest rates, putting pressure on the dollar.

A weak US currency makes dollar-priced gold cheaper for holders of other currencies and lifts demand for it. Some investors also shift to commodities from currencies.

"While it is possible that the commodities bubble is already bursting, the fundamentals for gold point to a recovery and an outperformance against the rest of the precious metals sector," SG Corporate and Investment Banking said in a report.

^---(from url)---^

Take advantage of the cheap 'Summer Doldrums' to top off your gold savings.

Call USAGOLD-Centennial for consultation and best prices.


TownCrierOil hits record $75.78#1458287/7/06; 13:21:37

LONDON (Reuters) - Oil fell from a record high of $75.78 a barrel on Friday on signs of a decrease in tension between the West and Iran, the world's fourth largest oil exporter.

Iran's chief nuclear negotiator said he had a "positive impression" of a Western proposal for Iran to stop enriching uranium in return for a package of incentives. Oil had earlier risen due to strong demand in the United States.

"While the global economy is staying strong, demand is going to be very supportive," said Tony Dolphin of Henderson Global Investors.

"I don't see oil falling back a lot. I think it is likely to remain in a range and perhaps gradually drift higher."

Oil in New York is up 23 percent this year because of supply cuts in Nigeria, the dispute over Iran's nuclear work and a flood of investment fund money into commodities.

^---(from url)---^

Comming immediately to mind are Flatliner's comments about the taming of natural gas speculation, and John Locke's sensible comments about the eschewing of disruptive sorts of hording (modern times read, speculation) for the perfection of gold metal savings.

Think rationally, act deliberately, and choose your savings/speculations wisely.


Topazcause-effect.#1458297/7/06; 14:11:57

The Gold up-Dollar down mantra was tested and found wanting again today as DX dropped quite substantially with little or no contrary action in PoG.
There are no EASY explanations, the price of Oil didn't rise this week because Mr Kim lobbed a few missiles into the Sea of Japan EVERY media outlet on the Planet chortled in unison, in fact if you were to turn that around 180 degrees and state: Because Oil was to rise this week, Mr Kin lobbed a few missiles'd probably be closer to the truth.
Bring back the good 'ol days I say, when you knew if an 'ombre was a goodie or a baddie before he stepped off his horse, simply by the color of his Hat!

USAGOLD Daily Market ReportPage Update!#1458307/7/06; 15:12:36">
The Daily Gold Market Report has been updated.

If you are considering investments in gold we invite you to">request our free introductory information packet detailing the products and services offered by USAGOLD ~ Centennial Precious Metals. We welcome your inquiry and look forward to working with you.

FRIDAY Market Excerpts

Gold eases on day, up 3.1% on week

July 7 (from MarketWatch) -- Gold futures closed lower Friday, as traders locked in some of the metal's recent gains, shrugging off a disappointing June nonfarm payrolls report that sent the dollar sharply lower against major currencies.

COMEX August gold contracts closed down $1.50 at $634.80.

Despite the losses on Friday, gold gained 3.1% this week.

Gold and the other precious metals didn't find "significant upside traction with initial gains in both running into end-of-week profit taking," said James Moore of "Chart resistance around $635 is proving a tough nut to crack for the moment and could suggest some further base building is required before pushing higher," Moore said.

Kitco's investment-products analyst, Jon Nadler, said that today's marginal decline in gold prices might be attributed to "book-squaring" before the weekend and the "perception that there may be a unified effort on a global scale to address the North Korean missile antics."

Weak payroll data pushed gold up only temporarily in early trade. The Labor Department said American nonfarm payrolls rose by 121,000 jobs in June, which was well below the 174,000 jobs that Wall Street had expected.

The weakness of the U.S. dollar and investors' quest for capital preservation will remain the main drivers of investment demand for gold during the second half of the year, Nadler said.

---(see url for full news, 24-hr newswire)---

Topazcause-effect II.#1458317/7/06; 18:49:17

Technically the Buck flat-lined today if you nett out DX drop and Bond strength.
This gives cause for concern for PoG here as the percieved US inflation-o-meter now hovers in limbo.
I would LOVE to see our PoG get out of Bond Jail here as it has so obviously done with Buck ...and it'll need to imo as Bonds proceed to make a B-Line for 120.
This is where it gets real with Foreign CB's threatening Bullion off-take on any price pull-back.

We'll see!

TownCrierGold and silver prices continue upward rally#1458327/7/06; 22:06:07§ion=business&col=

8 July 2006

DUBAI -- Precious metals price continued to rise on geo-political concerns. Following the gains made during the earlier session, both — gold and silver prices moved up further on increased demand.

In the currency market segment US dollar weakened against major world currencies like Euro, GBP and Yen.

DGCX August maturity gold futures contract opened for trading at $626.90 — lower by $2.50 as compared to the previous session close.

It fell to a low of $624/troy oz in the early stages of the session before bouncing back strongly to scale a session-peak of $636.70/troy oz. The contract finally settled for the day at $636.20/troy oz gaining $6.80 or 1.08 per cent. The open positions at the end of the day settled at 613 contracts showing an increase of 36.

^---(from url)---^

Seven months into life and one month into currency contract trading the fledgling exchange is still in process of finding its feet and wings.

How much longer until they roll out Saturday and Sunday benchmarks?


USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.Making acquisitions during the summer doldrums usually gives cause to smile in December#1458337/8/06; 07:56:14">seasonal opportunity
KnallgoldTitan#1458347/8/06; 09:38:40

Not sure what Gold would do in the outlined deflation scenario,after an initial drop from emergency liquidation I would guess a forced break free through barter between private individuals is likely.The various (paper)Gold exchanges surely would be ignored,as would the paper currencies be abandoned, because of a total loss of confidence.As a side note,a physical-only Gold market already in place could smoothen the edges in such a nightmarish scenario,ie is a good hedge,just in case.

BUT,the main point of the writings of FOA,Aristotle, TC,Aragorn,miner49er,Jacob_Marley,Belgian etc. is'such a deflation WON'T happen because we're on a (inherently inflationary) fiat monetary regime and not on a (inherently deflationary) Goldstandard.This means all tools,instruments and means are available to counteract deflation,but since this means a lot of money printing,it will lead to hyperinflation.

Gold will do fine here,provided the authorities will guarantee free (of price suppressing derivative!) trading of it.They will,out of sheer necessity,to cover their own butt and to retain stability/confidence in the markets.The wealthy need a vehicel to save their chips through this inflationary period.Gold is simply the best thing discovered for that, since thousands of years.You see,we have a golden time ahead.A free Gold market seems a sure bet if we all have some brain left.I bet we HAVE.

Why isn't it here yet?And what will come after the hyperinflation?You can only speculate and theres a bit of a silence on these topics,particularly on the latter.

A guess on the former,I'm beginning to see a pattern here,after the big redistribution of thousands of tonnes to have all the Gold friends urgent needs covered,we now see only minor Gold sales,all seem to be under 100t.Finetuning,in my view.They are mostly done with it.Ergo,we're close for the final snap/big revaluation.

Big statement of this liliput,yes."Die Hoffnung stirbt zuletzt",hope springs eternal.But watch the Goldchart (smile)!!!

TitanKnallgold - The future!#1458357/8/06; 10:10:51

Thanks for your message, KG. I am finding this very helpful and I'm sure others are most interested as well!

That big question mark about what happens in the future, to which you refer to as the topic people are silent on--I hope we can continue to explore, speculate about, ponder.

Your point about us headed in an inflationary (and a hyper one) direction is a good one. So maybe we won't have a 1929-like situation, with dollars devalued like the German mark (or was it Austrian?). Or maybe we will? Don't dollars devalue, as we're seeing it start to happen now, in times of great inflation--as well as depression?

For someone holding gold in pieces of no less than 1 oz., if there aren't plans to completely sell at some point, but keep it for bartering, then maybe it'd be wise to convert to 1/10-oz. coins as the price starts shooting up and the barter times seem to be arriving.

My main concern was that we hit another one of those 1/21/80-like events when gold hit $850, and then it falls, never to see that level again. If that happens, I would need to have sold then because I wouldn't have time to wait for another long cycle to come around again (if it's 25+ years like it has been this time).

But I don't believe we're in times anything like we were in 1980. Conditions seem so different now, and probably no one knows what to expect this time around. But that's why it's good to have a forum like this to kick ideas around and to benefit from the informed opinions of the wise ones that know this territory so much better than relative novices like myself!

KnallgoldTitan#1458367/8/06; 11:14:08

You rightly noted this is not 1980,the world then was not ready to let Gold run.

As for 1929,I used to have a chart for the US whole sale prices (aganist the Kondratieff cycle).The prices shrank for a long time afterwards,the hallmark of deflation.Yes,the $ was devalued against Gold,but it rose against commodities.Compare this to now!

contrarianA Picture Tells a Thousand Words#1458377/8/06; 13:32:03

There is nothing like a picture to tell a thousand words, and the marvelous yearly charts below are a perfect example. I've printed out a copy for frequent reference and urge everyone else to do the same.

The yearly trends depicted are almost like clockwork. The old adage "Sell in May and go away" could find no better proponent! (But returning in August to buy, of course!). The trend is your friend!

I think the manipulators, with their increasingly limited supply of ammunition, hit gold down when they knew they could get the most bang for their buck, entering into that low summer point. But since then it's bobbed up $100. So "Blow winds and crack your cheeks"!

But now, armed with the historical perspective afforded by these charts, I have a sense of serenity and power of knowledge, and say "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me"!

Chris PowellSt. Louis paper's gold story quotes Centennial's Mike Kosares at length#1458387/8/06; 15:06:51

Thank God SOMEBODY talked back to Peter Bernstein!

* * *

Those Following Gold's Glitter
Are Wagering on Bad Times

By Eric Heisler
St. Louis Post-Dispatch
Saturday, July 8, 2006

Throughout history, investors have gobbled up gold for one primary reason: To bet on catastrophe.

Since it became legal for Americans to own in 1975, gold has served as a buffer against inflation and a protection from bank failure.

Even in earlier times, gold was always a safe haven, a fallback for those with little faith in paper money.

So what then can be made of gold's recent run-up in value, which saw in May the shiny metal reach its highest level since the 1980s?

"There's simply no reason to buy it except to bet on disaster," said Peter Bernstein, author of "The Power of Gold" and a gold historian. "It's an expensive thing to do. It pays no income and there's storage costs. … The people who buy gold are simply the people who have no faith in paper currencies."

But while the tech bust, 2001 recession and recent inflation have given some investors jitters, Bernstein wonders whether the traditional reasons for buying gold hold true this time around.

"There's something very strange about what's happening to gold right now," he said. "In this episode it's gone up lock step with other commodities. That's different form the '70s and '80s."

For millennia, human beings have seen gold as a symbol of wealth. That led to a long period of time when gold was linked to money. In theory, for example, a dollar could be exchanged for a certain amount of gold. When the link was largely broken in the 1970s, investing in gold took off.

Gold's economic importance, however, dates back more than 6,000 years.

"Gold was money before there were central banks," said Michael Kosares, president of USAGold-Centenniel Precious Metals, a gold trading company in Denver. "In the modern era, people see it as a final payment. It has a value that doesn't come out of thin air and can't be undermined, and that's not ever going to change."

As early as 4000 B.C., societies in what's now Eastern Europe were mining gold in the Transylvanian Alps and using it to create decorative objects.

Gold was first used as money about 15 centuries before the birth of Christ, when a coin called the shekel became a standard unit of measure in the Middle East.

In the United States, the dollar's tie to gold dates back to the Coinage Act of 1792, under which Americans could exchange their dollars for gold. But to prevent U.S. citizens from doing so and possibly causing a bank run, it became illegal starting in 1933 for them to own gold.

A key series of decisions that would pave the way for gold investing began in 1971. That year, President Richard M. Nixon devalued the dollar versus gold, a move he would make again two years later. Then, in 1975, it became legal again for Americans to own gold.

As a result, trading of gold futures began in New York and Chicago. For two years, a recession held gold's price in check, but uncertainty about inflation caused it to take off in the late 1970s.

"When American citizens gained the right to own gold back, they pursued it aggressively," said Dan Vought, a futures analyst at A.G. Edwards Inc. in St. Louis. "With inflation as a concern, they saw it as a safe instrument."

By 1979, the world was in a full-blown monetary crisis, writes Kosares, the author of "The ABCs of Gold Investing." Interest in gold soared, and the price peaked at $875 an ounce that year, compared to just over $100 four years earlier.

In the 1980s and '90s, interest in gold generally cooled. An exception was 1987, when a stock market crash and bank failures caused the price to spike.

The long-running bull market of the 1990s also made gold investing seem antiquated.

But in the wake of the tech bust earlier this decade, a resurgence began. The price of gold has risen consistently over the last several years and peaked in May.

Kosares thinks many investors fear burgeoning inflation and are again finding gold to be a secure place for money. He also believes a cyclical shift has occurred where gold and other commodities are falling back into favor.

"Very few people buy gold because they want to make a bunch of money on it. They buy it to protect themselves," he said. "In terms of gold, I think we're entering a bull market trend."

Chris PowellSt. Louis paper's gold story quotes Centennial's Mike Kosares at length#1458397/8/06; 15:06:51

Thank God SOMEBODY talked back to Peter Bernstein!

* * *

Those Following Gold's Glitter
Are Wagering on Bad Times

By Eric Heisler
St. Louis Post-Dispatch
Saturday, July 8, 2006

Throughout history, investors have gobbled up gold for one primary reason: To bet on catastrophe.

Since it became legal for Americans to own in 1975, gold has served as a buffer against inflation and a protection from bank failure.

Even in earlier times, gold was always a safe haven, a fallback for those with little faith in paper money.

So what then can be made of gold's recent run-up in value, which saw in May the shiny metal reach its highest level since the 1980s?

"There's simply no reason to buy it except to bet on disaster," said Peter Bernstein, author of "The Power of Gold" and a gold historian. "It's an expensive thing to do. It pays no income and there's storage costs. … The people who buy gold are simply the people who have no faith in paper currencies."

But while the tech bust, 2001 recession and recent inflation have given some investors jitters, Bernstein wonders whether the traditional reasons for buying gold hold true this time around.

"There's something very strange about what's happening to gold right now," he said. "In this episode it's gone up lock step with other commodities. That's different form the '70s and '80s."

For millennia, human beings have seen gold as a symbol of wealth. That led to a long period of time when gold was linked to money. In theory, for example, a dollar could be exchanged for a certain amount of gold. When the link was largely broken in the 1970s, investing in gold took off.

Gold's economic importance, however, dates back more than 6,000 years.

"Gold was money before there were central banks," said Michael Kosares, president of USAGold-Centenniel Precious Metals, a gold trading company in Denver. "In the modern era, people see it as a final payment. It has a value that doesn't come out of thin air and can't be undermined, and that's not ever going to change."

As early as 4000 B.C., societies in what's now Eastern Europe were mining gold in the Transylvanian Alps and using it to create decorative objects.

Gold was first used as money about 15 centuries before the birth of Christ, when a coin called the shekel became a standard unit of measure in the Middle East.

In the United States, the dollar's tie to gold dates back to the Coinage Act of 1792, under which Americans could exchange their dollars for gold. But to prevent U.S. citizens from doing so and possibly causing a bank run, it became illegal starting in 1933 for them to own gold.

A key series of decisions that would pave the way for gold investing began in 1971. That year, President Richard M. Nixon devalued the dollar versus gold, a move he would make again two years later. Then, in 1975, it became legal again for Americans to own gold.

As a result, trading of gold futures began in New York and Chicago. For two years, a recession held gold's price in check, but uncertainty about inflation caused it to take off in the late 1970s.

"When American citizens gained the right to own gold back, they pursued it aggressively," said Dan Vought, a futures analyst at A.G. Edwards Inc. in St. Louis. "With inflation as a concern, they saw it as a safe instrument."

By 1979, the world was in a full-blown monetary crisis, writes Kosares, the author of "The ABCs of Gold Investing." Interest in gold soared, and the price peaked at $875 an ounce that year, compared to just over $100 four years earlier.

In the 1980s and '90s, interest in gold generally cooled. An exception was 1987, when a stock market crash and bank failures caused the price to spike.

The long-running bull market of the 1990s also made gold investing seem antiquated.

But in the wake of the tech bust earlier this decade, a resurgence began. The price of gold has risen consistently over the last several years and peaked in May.

Kosares thinks many investors fear burgeoning inflation and are again finding gold to be a secure place for money. He also believes a cyclical shift has occurred where gold and other commodities are falling back into favor.

"Very few people buy gold because they want to make a bunch of money on it. They buy it to protect themselves," he said. "In terms of gold, I think we're entering a bull market trend."

The Invisible HandHow the transition to freegold wealth reserve will occur#1458407/8/06; 19:00:23

The Invisible Hand (7/7/06; 01:08:05MT - msg#: 145818),
I innocently snipped this:

Hiding Behind Islamism
by Abid Ullah Jan
(Wednesday July 05 2006)
"It is necessary to understand the links between the present day monetary system, American dominance and fascism. Many of us do not realize the way "Islamism" is used to avoid the global depression on the pattern of the Wall Street crash in 1929. The impending depression is directly linked to the supremacy of the United States."

The article does however give a perfect analytical answer (vision).
On the one hand, it shows the alternative euro-gold concept versus the colonising petro-dollar.
On the invisible, it shows the circumstances under which this alternative must take place.

"Islamic fundamentalism" was blown out of proportion after the withdrawal of the Soviet Union from Afghanistan. By late 1990s, this term was turning into a cliché without enough impact to generate the required amount of fear of Islam. Islamophobes, thus, invented the term "Islamism" to add new dimensions to presenting Islam as a threatening menace.
[Aftter August 15, 1971, when, without prior warning to the leaders of the other major capitalist powers, U.S. president Nixon announced in a Sunday evening televised address to the nation that the United States was removing the gold backing from the dollar], [the] dollar and U.S. economy were on a precipice resembling Germany in 1929. The United States now had to find a way for the rest of the world to believe and have faith in the paper dollar. The solution was in oil, in the petrodollar. The United States viciously bullied first Saudi Arabia and then OPEC to sell oil for dollars only—it worked, the dollar was saved. Now countries had to keep dollars to buy much needed oil. And the United States could buy oil all over the world, free of charge. What a Houdini for the United States! Oil replaced gold as the new foundation to stop the paper dollar sinking.

MKChris. . .#1458437/8/06; 19:24:59

This might be just a nuance but the headline: "Those Following Gold's Glitter
Are Wagering on Bad Times" does not reflect the true feeling of gold owners. If their true feelings were headlined it would be "Those following gold's glitter are HEDGING bad times. . ."

There's a subtle difference that most gold owners will appreciate.

Overall, Eric Heisler did a good job with this material. I think his approach was balanced in the best tradition of journalistic enterprise. Sometimes, the editors like to spin a story. My concern is that an atmosphere is inculcated by some that gold owners are speculating on the end of the world as we know it. That is not the case. . .Gold owners simply recognize that life on this planet is imperfect. . .That the politcal/economic system is flawed and act accordingly.

That is the one thing that Peter Bernstein despite his extensive research has missed. Gold owners are not some divergent aspect of the social mix as some would have us believe, but your average physician, dentist, business owner, lawyer, investment professional (etc and so on) that realizes that not everything on this planet is pre-ordained or dictated by government or central banks, but the result of a very complex set of circumstances over which none of us, including the most connected, has any control. Alan Greenspan alluded to this repeatedly as Fed chairman and it is one of his observations repeatedly ignored by the mainstream press. And one of the thought patterns to which I have been endeared -- through thick and thin.

Bernstein says he can't understand why anyone would want to own gold. Greenspan when asked after a speaking engagement if he would rather be paid in dollars or euros answered, it is reputed, that he would prefer gold coins.

That was a very politic answer, but it is also reflects the thinking of a highly educated mind -- both in terms of intellect and experience.

A response we should all keep in mind.

Chris, thanks for bringing he article to the forum's attention. We all appreciate your on-going efforts here.

Chris PowellWagering on bad times? Not ALL gold owners#1458447/8/06; 19:56:10

MK, I long have suspected Bernstein of being
deliberately ignorant. To have written a big
book about gold and completely missed the
gold price suppression scheme and its purposes
is quite an achievement -- worthy not of a
Pulitzer Prize but rather an award from
MorganChase or its subsidiary, the U.S.
Government. Maybe he already has received it.

Yes, maybe some gold owners are "wagering on
bad times" -- times wherein all their capital
gains arising from gold will have to be spent
on guns, ammunition, freeze-dried food, and
ventilation equipment. Maybe some gold owners
will even be happy if such times arrive.

But other gold owners anticipate a more just
and democratic world -- times wherein economic
values are determined in the open by free
markets and gold is the great guarantor of
liberty and equality, disregarding all
national borders.

If Bernstein ever talked with some of THOSE
gold owners, he might have to write another
book, a far better one.

Anyway, thanks for all YOU do, here and
everywhere else, which today included the St.
Louis Post-Dispatch.

melda laureSmash Grab! Orcs love explosions.#1458457/8/06; 23:28:30

Earlier Titan asked exactly what constitutes a "hard landing". And also what it is about gold that makes it the asset of choice in this case. Interestingly they are related. The basic answer is that gold is the only asset that central banks own. While they hold many assets, they do not exactly "own" them, for these are contracts, debts, that is to say, they are ideas only. It is not a thing that can be sold if it no longer a sensible thing: while sumerian bills of delivery (grain futures) have collectors value as a clay tablet, the contracts themselves are now meaningless.

But that is the very hard landing case. The difference is perhaps between a plane crash where the airframe is so compromised it is only good for scrap, but most of the passengers walk away. Contrast this with flying into a mountain side, where a few unlucky souls manage to survive when the tail section breaks free of the fireball. You see, there are various levels of hard landing. In all of them it is better not to be the plane or pilot or passenger.

Then again, people in India and elsewhere merely like the simplicity of wealth free of contractual entanglements. Like a home, it is held for many years and the daily fluctuations in its fiat price of little interest. They shrug at fireballs and hard landings and just trudge along. It is after all, the american pampered way of life that is a dead man walking. The third world and the developing world will shuffle and stumble along as before.

melda laure(No Subject)#1458467/8/06; 23:52:59

It is amusing: POG up like 25% per year. The dow sloshing all over the place (and going nowhere), money markets in the 1 to 4%. Real inflation somewhere between 8 and 28%.

Sitting here is not betting on a disaster, it is a rational choice. We all pulled the rip cord some time back and have been watching the fireworks from a safe distance. Like John Mauldin, we watch the casino burn on bloomberg and tend to our tomatoes in the garden.

Titan, the gold sovereign was a convenient size for many years, and is often cheaper. In times not so long past, 50 of them would be the annual earings of a small shopkeeper. If bartering is your goal, a half bag of silver 50c pieces is probably more practical (as they are already worth 5$ each roughly.) They are nice gifts for the young, and easily identified as silver where quarters and dimes are easily mistaken for ordinary coins. But why stop there, one might as well buy a wagon, or a hand cart.

melda laureVery good answers, sirs Flatliner and TC. Of your grace, excuse now my woolgathering.#1458477/9/06; 00:23:54

manke tanya tula? bother, the drink hath garbled mine grammar

I composed this earlier and doubted my reception, yet I want to acknowledge the excellent responses #145814 and #145813 by Sirs Flatliner and TC to my "impertinent question"... Titan, there are short investment horizons and long ones- these may be too far in the future for mere mortals.

Yes sirree, those are very good answers. You have obviously thought through them to several layers deep, and I fully agree with your reasoning and its foundations.

Yet the russian and south african central banks are not the FED nor the ECB. And while the SA bankers are almost completely tied to the premier international hegemon, the russians are not. Putin is quite capable of writing new economics laws to prevent anyone from getting in his way, suffering is a matter of national pride. Nor is it necessary for Putin to clean out every last gram out of the refinery. Perhaps the mere threat would suffice, as seems to be the case with Mr Pompadour in North Korea. In any case, it seems the Chinese have a much stronger hand, (once free of the dollar), than do the Russians- China has owned the Russ before.

Gold and oil do not go in the same direction? What has russia that Iran could want? The comments yesterday about US treasury bonds being provided at special "discount" to certain nations intrigues me. Perhaps russian gold is available to "special" nations? We have returned to barter it seems and for very high stakes.

If the sparks do not ignite on 6/12 as you suggest I will not think the less of you for I agree: the middle east adventure is a dead man walking...

Life and Death sir TIH. #145818 Excellent comments. Clear the chessboard, set out the pieces anew.

Forrest Carter once wrote "there are dead men walking". Some are walking myocardial infarction cases, others have more exotic diseases. The present age is corrupt. It is not worth saving. Truth is very valuable indeed, it can save your skin. Truth saved Noah: he built a boat. He could not save the city. He didnt bother wasting his time. We must leave the pigs to their filth, and the fools to their folly. Buying gold is a first step. Finding a defensible way of life is another more difficult step. John Mauldin has done it, and now fiddles with tomatoes when he is not watching his bloomberg screens.

They want solutions, but saving the system is immoral for it is corruption. Truth is painful, truth saves.

I went to a global warming conference. They were preaching to the choir. But there was no talk of peak oil, no talk of electrogravitics, no talk about financial derivatives, but "ethanol" was mentioned and a lot of nonsense about stewardship. Bah! We are not stewards, we are debtors, borrowing the earth from our children, and the debt is about to be called. It will be paid. It was a stupid metaphor anyways, no self respecting native american would use it- the Roman Arrogance poisons europe still. Half-truths are as bad as lies. Nothing has been done since the last oil crisis 30 years ago. 30 years, over a generation of ignorance. Nothing sufficient will be done this time, that seems plain. We are dead men walking, some more dead than others. He who hesitates is lost.

And they want to know why. Sir 'Lox might know, it is such a shameful tale. Avallonie. A myth. When Rome fell, when Babylon fell, when the waters rolled over the earth, there was a pillar of heaven. Avallonie is no myth but it is no blessing either. It is the greatest of burdens, as well perhaps a curse on the race of men. Or perhaps it is a blot on the face of heaven. Nor is there any to hear its confession as long as it is too proud.

Well enough nonsense. And I do not wish to leave on such a sour note; it sounds so cowardly, no saving the system, no attempted regrouping for a counterstrike, no fighting, americans like to fight- they dont enjoy it though (only the Irish do). In a crisis of this sort these are folly. Isildur and the faithful were neither cravens, nor were they fools. They escaped the doom of Numenore, nor was fate kind in the end for long and hard was their road.

The time for fighting may come, but now is not the time and the great age of kings and lawyers and bankers is soon to end. For now, gardeners may be held in higher esteem; if only they can find some dirt above the water-line. A great adventure lies before us, and a golden road. May it bear you to a vision of the two trees and more blessed time than this.

Yellume! Nin mellyn, na haruvallen malta.

GOLD FINGERIDEAS? #1458487/9/06; 01:08:58

Over the years I watched the POG teeter up and down. Always boring and not very exciting.I know I am not alone in this. Now, it has all changed for me in just these last few months. Why? Hmmm I wonder.....

Aside from the typical increases when the dollar was down, gold seemed to be rather stale. However, I always kept one eye open and watched it carefully. Even though, I am an armature I still have a few ideas on Gold.

Years ago When I was a young Boy I world travel with my Grandfather on expeditions to some of his mining operations. He had several interests in Gold and other metals. For me it was always fun to explore these places with him. I asked my Grandfather why it was so important to always check on these mines and inspect them. He told me that what they contained was very valuable and it could make one extremely wealthy.

This is where I gained one of my views on gold and wealth. After touring the various mines and hidden places I gained an understanding that GOLD was not just simply something to have, but it was something to posses. Gold was not a means to buy something with, but a means to acquire wealth and become wealthy!

Now, if I could just find the gold bar (bars) my Grandfather buried!

What do all of these entities/groups/organizations have in common?

1. Osama Bin Laden
2. The Christian Right
3. Pyongyang
4. The USA
5. Iran
6. UAE
7. Islam
8. China
9. Russia
10. US Dollar
11.President G. Bush
12. Inflation
13. OIL

I bet there is at least one that is very common to them all!


Mine is that all these players are in the perfect mix to now see GOLD SOARING!

So at least something will become free soon!!


melda laureHow China fills the vault: from laundry to Heavy Industries#1458497/9/06; 01:09:03

The easy way to get gold is to buy it here. But if you require rather something more substantial, your best bet is to buy up some african republic. "You give them beads, that makes them friendly". Actually the cost has risen somewhat along with the tastes and expectations of your average African Potentate, dictator, or whatever. Dealing with dictators is much more expedient than having to talk to 30 different village councils, head men, matriarchs, all of whom probably have no use for roads, electrification or paper money. Africa has a unified currency: the cow. On the other hand, they wouldnt say no to a new TV, fridge, bicycle, or a new set of ginsu II knives. Why as soon as Ebay.afrika is everywhere we will all be able to purchase our dashikis straight from the source along with those carvings they make when somebody wants to remind himself he has a revenge killing to perform.

Actually this may turn out better than the previous bunch of squabbling adventurers from the old country. We will know in about 200 years. It may turn out better than the 1849 adventure as there wont be any gun toting yankees and the natives haven't been all killed off so somebody is around to do the digging. My, how times change.

TownCriermelda laure, on heroism, making the exceptional struggle and saving what ones ability allows...#1458507/9/06; 01:25:42

Here's a story that somewhat ties in with some of the sentiment addressed in your post.

HEADLINE: The Somme and Tolkien

(BBC) Monday, 3 July 2006

Ninety years ago, Allied commanders launched the World War I offensive lastingly remembered as the Battle of the Somme.

At 7.30am on 1 July 1916, officers blew their whistles to signal the start of the attack.

As 11 British divisions clambered out of their trenches and walked slowly towards the enemy lines, German machine guns opened fire, causing wholesale carnage.

The first day of that battle was the bloodiest in the whole history of the British Army. By the end of the day, the British had suffered 60,000 casualties; almost 20,000 were dead, including 60% of all the officers involved.

One of those who survived that horrific first assault, and who endured the prolonged ghastliness of the months of fighting that followed, was the young JRR Tolkien...

The poet Wilfred Owen was killed in the final week of World War I at the age of 25. His poems - which I first read at school - offered searing testimony to the way this new kind of war ended any possibility of romanticising personal sacrifice, or elevating the individual in combat to the status of hero.

For me his Anthem for Doomed Youth captures better than any military history an absolute disenchantment, no matter how "good and true" the cause:

"What passing-bells for these who die as cattle?
Only the monstrous anger of the guns?
Only the stuttering rifles' rapid rattle?
Can patter out their hasty orisons."

Tolkien had just graduated from Oxford with a first class degree in literature when he saw his first active service at the Somme. From July 1916 until he was invalided out with trench fever at the end of October, he experienced the full relentless ghastliness of day after day of trench life under fire - the discomfort, the cold, the mud, the lice, the fear, the unspeakable horrors witnessed.

He had taken comfort from the fact that he was fighting alongside his three oldest and dearest friends from his school-days - a quartet of gifted would-be-poets who hoped to become outstanding literary men. But by November, two of those friends were dead.

Tolkien and the one other surviving member of their "club" were never able to rebuild a closeness shattered by the enormity of what had occurred - by the sense of total loss, the obliteration of the band of friends almost before their creative lives had begun...

We might expect those months of unremitting horror in the trenches of the Somme to have fed into, and coloured, the ferocious battles and scenes of slaughter in Tolkien's three-part Lord of the Rings (begun in the 1930s), or in the Fall of Gondolin which he began writing while convalescing in the spring of 1917.

Glimpses of the battlefield do occur within Tolkien's epic tapestry - Morgoth's monstrous iron dragons surely owe something to the tanks first used in combat in World War I, which terrified the horses of the cavalry. When he describes the desolation of the battlefield, strewn with the mangled corpses of friend and foe, at the end of combat, we sense that Tolkien has himself witnessed that bleak devastation.

But in the main, Tolkien's imagination swerves away from Wilfred Owen's despair, mining the depths of his own sense of waste and loss, to salvage from it emotional, spiritual and moral meaning. This imaginative determination finds its way deep into the narrative fabric of his tales of Middle Earth.

In spite of the horror of total war, Tolkien chooses in his writing to focus his attention on the redemptive power of individual human action offered unconditionally as part of a common cause. Frodo Baggins is each of us aspiring to do good within modest limits.

"I should like to save the Shire, if I could," says Frodo early in his quest. "Though there have been times when I thought the inhabitants too stupid and dull for words."

Tolkien's epic works are large-scale memorials to the modest struggles of ordinary people doing their best for good against the forces of inhumanity. They are a brilliantly achieved exemplar of the way the human imagination can configure a better future even in the aftermath of senseless, bloody destruction.

...his enduringly popular works - especially the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings - have given generations of readers an Ariadne's thread for their emotional yearnings, guiding them through the labyrinth of an ordinary life - giving it shape, giving it meaning, and above all, giving them hope.

^---(see url for the full article, a good read)---^

In that spirit often we find that we are doing what we can out of an inexplicable driving sense of duty and for little other reason, certainly not for expressions of "thanks", because the "thanks" very seldom comes. Just ask Frodo... A long hard road, obscurity in the homeland upon completion of the mission, and an unsung boatride into the end.

Ah!! But the blessed fellowship of those peers pulling together, shouldering the load! It surely mitigates the silent disinterest of those who Frodo found too "dull for words" who none the less reap the benefits of catastrophes averted.

And thus inspired, we gathering here, too, find the energy to soldier on...


Gandalf the WhiteTHANK you, Sir Randy #1458517/9/06; 09:26:46


Chris PowellIs buying silver as good as gold? A view from Dubai#1458527/9/06; 09:51:23

Is Buying Silver As Good As Gold?

From AMEInfo, Dubai
Sunday, July 9, 2006

Last week there were rumors that Dubai was trying to
corner the silver market like the legendary Hunt
Brothers in the 1970s. This latter episode culminated
in a $50-an-ounce blowoff in 1980 followed by a price
collapse that left these one-time multi-billionaires

Whatever the truth in speculation about Dubai's
interest in silver, many investors are beginning to
ask whether the time is right to buy silver, and if it
is as good as gold.

From an investment perspective gold and silver have
trodden a very similar upward path over the past five
years, and the sudden recent correction and subsequent
bounce have been well matched with a slightly sharper
downturn for silver.

Indeed, the arguments for holding silver or
silver-backed assets are very much the same as for the
yellow metal. The immutable quality of precious metals
is clear when you look at the image of a silver coin
from the reign of the Roman Emperor Trajan -- this was
legal currency in A.D. 112 and still has a
quantifiable value today.

And unlike paper money the central bankers of the
world can not print more silver. The supply of this
commodity expands in line with mining operations and
not printing presses. It is therefore less prone to
devaluation than paper money.

In fact on the supply side there is a good argument
for suggesting that silver is under more pressure than
gold, as more silver is used in more industrial
processes than gold and the stock is actually
diminishing rather than rising steadily as in the case
of gold.

On the other hand, silver has never played the same
quasi-monetary role in central banking that gold
fulfils, and in any financial crisis it would probably
be gold that gains the most in value.

Silver also suffers from the "Hunt factor" mentioned
in the first paragraph. The market manipulation so
blatantly executed by the Hunts in the late 1970s has
left investors wary of a repeat performance by some
other major investor.

Indeed, silver traders point to huge short positions
in the silver market and evidence of massive market
manipulation. The Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee has
highlighted a similar manipulation of the gold market
by central banks. But such short positions have to be
unwound eventually and could be the very mechanism of
a price spike after years of artificial suppression.

One reason to hold silver as well as gold is
diversification. There certainly have been times when
silver prices have held up better than gold and
vice-versa. Hold both precious metals and you iron out
some of the fluctuations, and volatility is the major
problem with this asset class for the average

Arguably this is a better investment strategy than
trying to "market-time" purchases. Volatility is
supposed to be great for traders, and it is if they
have pinpoint timing. But for the average investor
this is also the quickest way to lose a fortune rather
than to make one.


Peculium AurumIs Buying Silver As Good As Gold#1458537/9/06; 14:50:18

Simply put--No No No
Why: $20,000 US in Silver. more than 160 Lbs
$20,000 US in Gold. less than 3 Lbs

Just my humble opinion. How heavy is your safe deposit box?

LacklusterPeculium Aurum:#1458547/9/06; 15:33:31

"Is Buying Silver As Good As Gold
Simply put--No No No
Why: $20,000 US in Silver. more than 160 Lbs
$20,000 US in Gold. less than 3 Lbs"

So, by that logic, $20,000 dollars in paper currency must be even better, because it is even lighter? I suppose the best would be a personal check.

osa104cSILVER mOOns#1458557/9/06; 15:56:04

I side with Richard M……call in sick, get in your car, drive like a bat out of hell… red lights………….get as much silver as you can NOW!!!……(BRIC)…Brazil, Russia, India, and CHINA will be offering ($100??..$150?? an OZ)…on Ebay?????..can't go wrong………uless your name is JUDAS.
The Invisible HandAngry Putin says he will not sell fuel for 'peanuts'#1458567/9/06; 19:06:35
Published: 07 July 2006
President Vladimir Putin has accused the West of using the media to try to bully his country into selling off its huge reserves of oil and gas "for peanuts" days before he hosts a G8 summit in St Petersburg. A visibly angry Mr Putin used a live broadcast on the BBC website yesterday to address what he sees as the biggest injustice of Russia's G8 presidency so far - the European gas crisis last January.
The crisis overshadowed the start of Moscow's stint at the G8 helm and erupted after a pricing row between Russia and Ukraine prompted Moscow to cut off Ukrainian gas supplies in the middle of one of Europe's coldest winters. quotes: Putin webcast
Key quotes from Russian President Vladimir Putin speaking in a special interactive webcast, organised by the BBC and Russia's Yandex website on 6 July 2006:
Russia will not give away its resources for peanuts. We now adhere to market principles purely and solely.
We will agree a price [for gas] with Ukraine like with any country in Western Europe. Moscow is not influencing the price for the gas. Everybody has got to pay a market price so the subsidies... we effectively used to pay are done with - we are not going back to that. If you insist that we supply our gas at cheap prices to Ukraine you are thereby creating an ineffective economy in a country with our help.

Is Putin abusing his oil/gas power?
Or is the West trying to demonise the axis of evil which (the latter) would include Putin?
Wait till next week-end when the end of the St Petersburg G8 Summit will give the go-ahead for Iran joining the Shanghai Cooperation Organization.

The Asian producers of oil and gas are being labeled as undemocratic,

whereas the West would be very democratic thereby giving all power to the majority,

whereas the FIRST COMMANDMENT says "I am The Lord your God, Who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
(Exodus 20:2-3 RSV)

The Invisible HandThe birth of the euro and the CRB index #1458577/9/06; 19:52:34

The Commodity Research Bureau (CRB) index is an index the computing daily commodity price index, using quotations for sensitive commodities The Spot Market Price Index is a measure of price movements of 22 sensitive basic commodities whose markets are presumed to be among the first to be influenced by changes in economic conditions.

The chart shows that the parabolic increase in commodity prices started in 1999 – 2002. As if by accident, this is the birth-date of the euro, competitor to the dollar.
What other explanation could be given for this price increase?

The chart is a 20 years chart where the dollar prices for commodities continued to evolve horizontally until 1999 – 2002.

It is nonsense to claim that the sudden increase of commodity prices in dollar would be due to a sudden increase in the demand for these commodities.
Just like it would be nonsense to claim that when the euro-dollar exchange rate went from 0.80 to 1.28, the economy of the European Union fared so much better than the economy of the US of A.

No, there is a FOONDAMENTAL DIFFERENCE IN CONCEPT between the dollar and euro units.

Note also that the dollar-CRB indicator was affected less than proportionally by the sinking of the gold price by Gold-Sachs and Paulson.

Why do we bother outlining such difficult theories when everything can logically be deduced from this chart?

Robin Smith, "Logic" in: "The Cambridge Companion to Aristotle" p. 27
p. 29
Aristotle claims a special kind of priority for his treatise on logic.
In every other subject matter, he sees himself as continuing a line of work which began before him,
and he presents his own theories as further developments of what he has received from his predecessors.
When it came to the study of argument, however, Aristotle found himself in a different situation.

Aristotle was the first to conceive of a systematic treatment of correct inference itself.
As such, Aristotle was the founder of logic.

p. 29
A DEDUCTION (sullogism) is an argument in which, certain things being supposed,
something else different from the things supposed follows of necessity because of their being so.

What Aristotle defines here is the relation of logical consequence or implication
- a deduction is an argument in which the conclusion follows necessarily from the premises.
- in modern terms, deductions are VALID ARGUMENTS

The principal objective of logical theory is just this relation of logical consequence.

p. 30
The Greek word "sullogismos" which Aristotle uses for deduction
can in ordinary usage mean "computation" or "reckoning’.

Plato uses it and its associated verb of the drawing of a conclusion.

Aristotle's definition of sullogism comprehends more than what we call syllogism.

Aristotle tries to show that any valid argument can be transformed into an argument using only these deductive forms nowadays called syllogisms.

Madsen Pirie, "How to Win Every Argument – The Use and Abuse of Logic", Continuum Books, 2006, pp. ix;

Sound reasoning is the basis of winning at argument. Logical fallacies undermine arguments. They are a source of enduring fascination, and have been studied for at least two-and-a-half millennia. Knowledge of them is useful, both to avoid those used inadvertently by others and even to use a few with intent to deceive. The fascination and the usefulness which they impart, however, should not be allowed to conceal the pleasure which identifying them can give.

The Invisible HandSCO to be OPEC for gas#1458587/9/06; 20:50:02

The Shanghai Cooperation Organization on the brink of a new era?
Similarly, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who also attended the summit, has mentioned the possibility of creating an OPEC type organisation with Russia of setting world prices for natural gas.
Nowhere is Russian leadership more evident than in SCO discussions of full membership for Iran. Russia's lot is clearly for Iranian membership: Russian gas-giant Gazprom is backing the construction of a gas pipeline from Iran to Pakistan and India, and the company has recently discussed with the Iranian authorities the possibility of developing joint oil and gas projects. This possible admission of Iran in the organisation will reveal more than anything else how far the organisation will follow Russian leadership. This issue might also become a test to judge how far the current members’ interests can realistically converge.
Putin wants businesslike G8 summit
But the mere fact energy security is the main theme at the July 15-17 gathering will fix Russia's role of energy superpower in the popular imagination. Chairing discussion of the Iran and North Korean nuclear issues will only add to the gravitas.


Remember that on July 18, Iran will be admitted as full member to the SCO.

The Invisible Hand (6/30/06; 21:29:10MT - msg#: 145699)
Freegold scheduled for July 18, 2006
In discussing the SCO jubilee summit, the media are concentrating on the reasons for Russia's reluctance to precipitate Iran's admission into the organization. One explanation is Russia's desire to have a good political situation on the eve of the July G8 summit in St. Petersburg. "Russia wanted to lay the foundation for the G8 meeting in St. Petersburg. On the one hand, it did not want Iran to become a fully-fledged member too fast in order to avoid aggravation with the U.S. On the other, it tried to reach at least some preliminary agreement with Ahmadinejad on united tariff policy in the export of energy carriers." (TRIBUNE-uz, June 22.)


Remember: once Iran is in the SCO (Shanghai Cooperation Organization), Freegold will be a fact.
Foreign ministers from the group of eight industrialised nations are meeting in Moscow on 29 June, followed by a summit of G8 leaders in St Petersburg on 15-17 July.

July 18 is a Tuesday.

Peculium AurumBY that logic#1458597/9/06; 21:31:18

Lackluster: Wow what a quantum leap of logic on your part.
Your interpretational skills must have catapulted into
high finance at an early age. The question was about gold & silver. My answer was about transportability of Gold verse silver. My question was about the weight of a safe
deposit box, which you never answered. Believe me it makes
a big difference to a little old man like me.

goldquestGovernment Spying On Your Bank Transactions#1458607/9/06; 22:48:02

All the more reason to turn your fiat into physical gold and stash it, other than in a bank.
melda laureDo we walk the green earth or the trail of nursury rhymes? A man may do both.#1458617/9/06; 23:24:49

Oh dear, this is one of those issues I cant respond to without dropping out of character sir TC.

How anyone could survive that meat grinder with any sense of chivalry intact amazes me. But beyond this are other issues. Myths and Legends have a nasty habit of becoming the facts of future times.

I have told nursurey rhymes so long I have finally become one. Today gold is nothing more than a curious legend told by our grandmothers. It is fast becomming the great fact of the times. Might not then other legends also return to disturb our comfortable "dullness"? Uniformitarianism, (the belief that this age is much the same as the previous and change happens but slowly) is the essential hallmark of present day economic outlook and theory. Catastrophism is the province of fruitcakes like Vine DeLoria, Vusamazulu, Velikovsky, and other champions of historical heresies. Let us leave these phantasms, for the present this age is not even ready to belive in Peak Oil, let alone the deeper magic, electrogravitics and implicate order.

I should apologise for alluding to such things so vaguely: the historian of middle earth may have had in mind far more actual history than allegory or fiction, (this is a discussion I have had with D Vardell and M Heiser). The same might be said of another writer with an interest in White Witches. When we were very young we thought as children, perhaps soon we will reach childhood's end. For beyond our comfortable little home lies a wide world of wonders; may we meet them with better grace than Uncle Andrew.

Free Gold is comming. And it may have baggage some did not expect. Lord Mithradir, I hope your ball is polished and ready!

Sir TIH, you say Putin wants something more than paper for his country's oil. Perhaps so too does a certain Bolivian. The yammering orcs will be chanting "commie scum" and other not so nice names. To no avail, or course. The chinese have a new way to pay for oil, they have a huge supply of cut rate goods, at african prices. Yes the commodities boom is here! And those ores, metals, and melons will NEVER clear through comex. The US has been blitzed, out-flanked, without a shot fired.

melda laureKitco chart only.#1458627/9/06; 23:43:02

A minor practical matter. As many here often check the kitco 24hr chart, it may be accessed without loading the entire page. This is not only faster, but also reduces the load on their server. Doubtless similar tricks may be performed on other sites. It may be an expedient practice if the action gets hot and heavy.


melda laurePeak Oil as she are taught. #1458637/10/06; 00:05:24

On this forum, (and others often linked) we have concise and clear explanations of what Peak Oil means. Yet among the rest of the world, they are still arguing about liberal/conservative nonsense, diatribes, greenies, economics, blah blah blah.

Ignoring this person's political views for the moment, it is instructive to see the sorts of side issues and petty squabbles that get in the way of understanding peak oil.

The same silly games pervade discussion of Gold, except that gold is rarely discussed: one does not starve for lack of gold. At least, not yet.

Another panelist, a green economist, bemoaned the possibility of post-peak oil prices going down enough so as to revive demand and thus warm the globe further. Hazel Henderson's famous quote, "Economics is a form of brain damage," applies more than ever today. Listen up economists: peak oil and geology are not subject to later revision based on theory of demand and supply! END snip.

Small wonder, economics is brain damaging. Perhaps this explains our collective delusion! NOT!

TownCrier968, Has R. Sleeper's recommendation to S.Africa been put into practice already?!#1458647/10/06; 01:01:15

Without sifting through the CB's accounting records, what can we reasonably deduce from the following article of evidence?

HEADLINE: SA's gold and forex reserves slip

10 July 2006 -- THE Reserve Bank slowed its accumulation of reserves last month, with gold and forex reserves falling 0,6% on a lower gold price, and a substantially weaker rand in the month...
This is the first time since January 2004 that the pace of accumulation has declined, and analysts said last week that gross reserves were expected to continue increasing at a moderate pace in the short to medium term.

Gross gold and foreign exchange reserves declined slightly to $23,95bn at the end of June, from $24,10bn in May.

Net reserves, also known as the international liquidity position, also declined, to $20,18bn, from $20,36bn in May.

Absa treasury technical analyst Judy Padayachee said the Bank had not intervened in forex markets to support the rand.
JP Morgan economist Marisa Fassler said: "With oil prices reaching record highs in recent weeks, the Bank is also unlikely to take any action that contributes to further weakening of the rand."
[...] * * * *(!!!)
The gold price fell 7.6% between May and last month, according to the Bank's calculations, bringing gold reserves down to $2.4bn from $2.6bn.

...The gold price is expected to continue rising although not as steeply as the previous two months, according to Standard Bank economist Shireen Darmalingam.

"Gold holdings are therefore expected to increase in line with the increase in the gold price in the coming months," she said.

^---(from url)---^

Note: the 7.6% fall in gold price correspondes exactly to the stated 7.6% fall in gold reserve value from $2.6 to $2.4 bn.

This change in gold value most certainly represents a mark-to-market(!) effect rather than a coincidental physical dishoarding effect.

Now, all things considered, the big step is for the Reserve Bank to stop measuring the value of international reserves in terms of dollars. After all, what sense is to be found in a balance sheet that has a goodly share of its assets measured in dollars when natural inclination is for its liability side to be measured in rand?

The Reserve Bank needs to be comfortable in its own shoes and use the rand to measure the entirety of both its assets and liabilities, and insofar as foreign-denominated reserves (and hence, fluctuating exchange rates) is involved, this is where the "free" principle of MTM comes into its own.

Send Sleeper on a world speaking tour!


TownCrierTo 968, more clarification from Another article...#1458657/10/06; 01:10:42

HEADLINE: SA reserves fall for the first time in two years as gold price drops

July 10, 2006 Johannesburg - South Africa's reserves fell for the first time in two years in June as the value of their gold component fell and the Reserve Bank avoided large purchases of foreign exchange while markets were volatile.

Net reserves fell by $175 million (R1.2 billion) to $20.185 billion during the month, the first decline since June 2004, central bank data showed. Gross reserves dropped by $150 million to $23.950 billion, the first fall in that measure since October 2003.

"The decrease in foreign reserves was mainly due to revaluation adjustments, in particular impacting on gold reserves, which declined by $200 million," the bank said.

^---(from url)---^

"...revaluation adjustments..."

"...revaluation adjustments..."

"...revaluation adjustments..."

And to drive home an important point which might otherwise be overlooked in this particular MTM instance wherein we see gold take a dip, people need to bear in mind that in a fully-fledged "freegold" environment, the gold valuation portion of the international reserve position has the latent (stored potential) energy/power to absolutely SOAR.

We get one step further down the trail, following those deliberate giants...


TownCrierGold's baffling ways#1458667/10/06; 01:22:22

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- Is gold sneaking up on us again?

Australia's The Privateer Web site, which follows bullion prices as closely as any professional I know, thinks so.

It says: "On the weekly chart, gold crossed back above its 20-week (100 day) moving average last week and has regained its shorter-term 10 week MA this week. As long as the 10-week MA remains above its 20-week counterpart, the upward acceleration of the Gold price which began back in late 2005 is still intact."

More persuasive, perhaps, is The Privateer's Long Term $US 5x3 Gold chart.

This suggests that gold has just surged above a 2002-2006 uptrend channel (itself quite impressive), which implies explosive gains are a possibility.

^---(from url)---^

As nice as charts can be, personally, I find the CB activities (such as referenced in the previous postings) to be more fundamentally important an an indicator to gold's future status than any collection of price-charts and tech-analysis, which I liken to an attempt to drive using only the view in the rearview mirror -- attempting to see forward based on what's already behind you.


USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.You are invited to join the NewsGroup#1458677/10/06; 01:23:56">join the newsgroup
GOLD FINGERF.Y.I.#1458687/10/06; 01:39:46

After watching the Discovery Channel's preview of a new mummy being unearthed and then reveling that inside the casket there was no mummy but some artifacts to include GOLD. I noticed above all it still looked SHINNY and realized the true immortality of GOLD.

To me the properties of gold out shinned them all and from what I could see looked not a day older from the moment it was placed in the casket/tomb. All the other artifacts were old and rotten and eaten away by termites. Yet, the gold was still bright!

On an ending note I flipped the channel to that "shop at home" network with the loud mouth salesmen to pitch the so called bargains.....I caught the last segment of their presentation of the new US BUFFALOS 50 pure gold.

To here them rattle on with nothing more than nonsense was rather amusing. I did catch the REDUCED price of 1,199.95 each and they said it was a deal and going fast. These were the regular non circulated that I have seen here for just a few dollars above the spot price.

Maybe I am wrong but it looks like gold is up over a 1,000.00US! Maybe our host should raise the price.

Just some new~

968@ Towncrier.#1458697/10/06; 04:10:15

Thanks ! This is a golden morning !
TownCrierSouth Africa -- more preparations for fully-fledged freedom of goldprice#1458707/10/06; 10:14:24

RE: Mine Royalty Bill...

2006/July/10 (Reuters) -- South Africa, the world's biggest producer of gold and platinum, will release a new draft of a long-awaited mine royalty bill within two weeks after more cabinet consultations, a government official said on Monday.

The bill had been due to be unveiled after a cabinet meeting on June 28, but National Treasury spokeswoman Thoraya Pandy said Finance Minister Trevor Manuel wanted more time for discussions.

"It will be released in a couple of weeks. The finance minister wanted to consult a bit more with his cabinet colleagues," she said.

The royalties were due to come into effect in 2009.

At present no royalties are charged.

^---(from url)---^

968, you may remember my previous comments (body of evidence) that seems to continue to be stacking up for 2009 to be a very significant year.


TownCrierZimbabwe: Reserve Bank Eyes Gold Mine#1458717/10/06; 10:23:33

Zimbabwe Standard (Harare) July 10, 2006

THE Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe is reportedly eyeing a controlling stake in Globe and Phoenix Mine in a desperate bid to improve Zimbabwe's dwindling foreign currency reserves, Standardbusiness can reveal.

Sources told this paper that the Kwekwe-based gold mine was one of the projects that the Central Bank was eyeing with monetary authorities already having begun talks with unnamed horticultural producers for possible acquisitions.

"The RBZ is doing feasibility studies at the mine at the moment. They have been working there for three months now..."

...Analysts said that the central bank was out of its jurisdiction but admitted that "necessity had become the mother of invention".

"We all know the role of the central bank and it's to regulate financial institution. Mining gold is non-core and that's something that should get their fingers burnt but we all have to admit that the situation is desperate," said the economist who declined to be named.

"They are not getting what they think the country should be getting from the mining sector and feel no one is more capable of harnessing the mineral resource than them and we are desperate for foreign currency," he said.

^---(from url)---^

As an asset-preservation-minded investor, wouldn't your rather enjoy the peace of mind from having your gold gathered already in the clear (gold coins in hand), especially on the evidence that gold remains an asset that is very much in favor and that mines remain very much at risk like a sitting duck?


TownCrierAsian expatriates outstrip nationals in gold purchase#1458727/10/06; 10:49:21§ion=theuae

ABU DHABI — Asian expatriates have outstripped UAE nationals in terms of gold purchases in the UAE, according to a report published by the Abu Dhabi Chamber of Commerce and Industry (ADCCI).

"Asians took the lead with a purchasing power of 21 per cent across the country while GCC nationals enjoyed prime status across the region wielding 60 per cent of the gold purchasing power. Arab residents ranked third with 18 per cent followed by Europeans at 11 per cent," said the report...

...demand is still on the rise, reaching 40 per cent in the UAE, 32 per cent in Saudi Arabia, 41 per cent in Kuwait, 32 per cent in Oman and 23 per cent in Qatar," the reported showed.

"GCC nationals love to purchase 18-K while Asians prefer 22-K as a saving vehicle," the report noted also signalling the growing investment trend in gold when compared to shares and securities.

The report put the average per capita consumption of gold in the UAE at over 30 gramme a year, as against 15 gramme in Saudi Arabia, 1.7 gramme in the US and one gramme in India.

The report called for setting up a free trade zone for gold and jewellery in Abu Dhabi in the light of the huge development in the tourism and investment sectors. It also recommended that a UAE gold directory be issued and that a web site dealing with the gold business be launched.

^---(from url)---^

(Launch a gold website about the gold biz? I'd say forget about it... WAY too much work!)

It is always interesting to see the latest annual per capita gold-buying figures. Nearly one ounce in the small but rich United Arab Emirates, half that in small but rich Saudi Arabia, just a pittance per capita in the large rich United States, and just half of that per capita in relatively poor but 1-billion huge gold-hungry country of India.

The inverse correlation/combination of size vs purchasing power certainly helps keep the scarce gold supply adequate to go around to where its wanted. However, imagine if a huge poor country (India) gained purchasing power through economic development to feed its gold appetite, or a large rich country simply developed a gold accumulation wisdom on par with the per capita figures of the UAE or even SA.

These things can happen, but there remain still larger forces at play on the price as we recognize it today...


USAGOLD Daily Market ReportPage Update!#1458737/10/06; 13:27:28">
The Daily Gold Market Report has been updated.

If you are considering investments in gold we invite you to">request our free introductory information packet detailing the products and services offered by USAGOLD ~ Centennial Precious Metals. We welcome your inquiry and look forward to working with you.

MONDAY Market Excerpts

July 10 (from MarketWatch) -- Gold futures closed lower Monday, as traders consolidated recent gains and crude-oil prices retreated after a positive signal from Iran on the Western incentives proposal aimed at curbing the nation's nuclear program. Gold for August delivery ended down $8.70 at $626.10 on the New York Mercantile Exchange.

"The gold market is overbought after two up weeks," said Ned Schmidt, editor of the Value View Gold Report, in a weekend note. "Some resting is likely in the coming week."

Schmidt added that at least two tests of the lows might be coming up. "That lateral, up and down, pattern will be the base for an advance this fall," Schmidt said.

"Be patient. Remember your secret weapon -- governments."

Ali Larijani, Iran's chief nuclear negotiator, said that he is positive toward an incentives package offered by the permanent members of the United Nations Security Council and Germany, the BBC reported. The proposal is designed to encourage Tehran to halt uranium enrichment.

However, Larijani also said there shouldn't be a deadline for Tehran's response, though Western leaders have signaled they want a response before the Group of Eight summit July 14 in St. Petersburg, Russia.

The U.N. is concerned that Iran is building a nuclear weapons program although Iran has denied any such plan.

Elsewhere on the global political stage, Japanese officials said Monday that they have been discussing ways to protect their country from potential North Korean aggression, including establishing a legal basis that would allow Japan to launch a pre-emptive strike against missile sites in North Korea, the Associated Press reported.

Kitco's investment-products analyst John adler said that without any visible Iranian or North Korean breakthroughs, traders were "using the absence of news or the milder tone of the day to sell off some of the positions that had become profitable over the past two weeks."

---(see url for full news, 24-hr newswire)---

TownCrierNew treasury chief says US to remain 'engaged' in global economy#1458747/10/06; 13:46:18

WASHINGTON : "We must always remember that the strength of the US economy is linked to the strength of the global economy," the former Goldman Sachs chief executive said at a White House swearing-in ceremony.

"It is very critical for the United States to remain actively engaged with our economic partners. And it's in our interest to advance those policies that will help to build a more prosperous world. Doing so contributes to our economic progress as well as our national security.

"If we retreat from the global stage, the void is likely to be filled by those who do not share our commitment to economic reform. Instead, we must work to expand trade and investment, work to reform and modernise international financial markets and be vigilant in identifying and managing potential financial vulnerability."

...Before joining Goldman Sachs, Paulson worked as a staff assistant to the late Republican president Richard Nixon.

^---(from url)---^

Paulson was (a peon) in DC when the goldprice was partially freed by the Nixon administration (1971-73).

This time around, in DC again but as a bigwig, will he be a help or hinderance as some players in the global economy work to give gold more complete freedom? And will his stance even matter?


The Invisible HandSCO to be Gas OPEC#1458757/10/06; 16:30:26

Russian moves spark 'gas OPEC' fears
By Sergei Blagov in Moscow for ISN Security Watch (10/07/06)
Despite subsequent denials, recent calls by some Russian officials to create an OPEC-like gas producers' grouping - a reference to the world's oil cartel and its history of politically motivated supply cut-offs - are an ominous sign for European energy supply security.
Black Blade, (I hope everything is well with you), can you hear me?

melda laureThis could go either way, (maybe they will punt)#1458767/10/06; 22:36:22

Sirs TIH, Flatliner, an opposing view... (or merely the other half of the situtation).

The russians have few good options... Doubtless they are worried about their future.

The americans also have few good options... Looks like the battle of the five diplomats.

Black BladeRe: The Invisible Hand #1458777/11/06; 03:57:20

I hear you loud and clear. Just been very busy with clients and taking advantage while there's still interest in NatGas. I keep checking in and read the posts. I haven't had much to say except that the PM and Petroleum markets have been volatile and have not disappointed. I have been traveling a bit between Texas, Oklahoma, Calgary, SoCal, Utah and Wyoming in recent weeks. Should be on a NG project in Wyoming for a few months as well as a feasibility study for a small player in the oilsands in the Great White North.

I haven't really had much to say for a while because I am watching everything unfold pretty much as I expected and had discussed here over the last 6 or 7 years. When I get time and see some significant changes I will return to expand on the markets. Still, energy is tight, the Fed plays games with the dollar and Gold is just ready to explode when the games effect homeowners and consumer spending. Remember that America is only 300 million people and two thirds of the 7 billion people in the world see Gold and Silver as money or store of value. To watch the Carnival Barkers on CNBC one would think that only Americans exist in the world as consumers (many others on the planet are savers and they squirrel away Gold and Silver in many forms). Fun to watch the Carnies though but you tend to get a better read on CNBC Asia and CNBC Europe (America CNBC is for just purely infomercial and entertainment purposes - they should fire Joe Kernan/Dave Faber and hire Ron Popiel and get a studio audience). ;)

On a side note - what gets my goat is that the CNBC Carnies keep harping on Gold is for jewelry. Sure it is, when in many countries that is the legal form it can be owned (thus 22-24K purity) and held on their person for exchange (still used this way as money in parts of Asia and the ME). Many PM owners will be glad they got "insured" when the "twin deficits" overwhelm the Fed and they have difficulty convincing foreigners to buy our debt.


- Black Blade

SundeckGhost of M King Hubbert seen in Australia recently...#1458787/11/06; 04:37:23


SYDNEY: World oil production is at its peak and set to fall 32% by 2020 as discoveries wane, said Ali Samsam Bakhtiari, a former executive of Iran's state oil company.


Oil prices that have risen almost threefold in three years to an all-time high of $75.78 a barrel in New York on July 7 haven't reduced demand significantly, Bakhtiari said, predicting further gains beyond $100.
"We don't know how far the price has to go for demand to begin to be dented; the normal economics don't work any more,’’ Bakhtiari said at a lecture in Sydney, hosted by the Financial Services Institute of Australasia. "Is it $125, is it $150? I don't know. I don't think it can go much higher than $300.’’


Bakhtiari, a guest in Australia of the Australian Association for the Study of Peak Oil and Gas, will today give evidence to a Senate inquiry into Australia's future oil supplies.


The world's natural gas production will probably peak a few years later, in 2008 or 2009, Bakhtiari said. That peak will trigger an "enormous’’ demand for liquefied natural gas, the price of which may rise as much as $30 or $40 per million British Thermal Units, he said.
Natural gas for August delivery was at $5.581 per million British thermal units in after-hours trading yesterday on the New York Mercantile Exchange.


Sundeck: ...and the story made the evening TV news.

Talk of $5 per litre auto fuel (currently around $1.40) will be making some people sit up and take notice. Of course there are those (ABARE et al., Steve Forbes, bless their little hearts) who see the price of oil falling back next year to around US$35 per barrel...

Sheee...can you imagine it? On the one hand we have world (growing) demand banging up against world production capacity as well as the US dollar levitating in Lulu Land and there are "analysts" who see oil going back DOWN to US$35 or less??? Not to mention strife all over and around the major producing countries and a few other things as well.

OK...maybe the world economy will fall in a heap, or global human population will be decimated by aliens with solar-powered vapourisers, or everyone will suddenly become besotted by donkey-travel and sedentary lifestyles, so $35 may be a possibility...but is it probable?

"Oh, this old world keeps spinning round.
It's a wonder tall trees ain't layin' down.
There comes a time." Neil Young

Peak Oil's time's a'comin'...


Sundeck...but there are the detractors...#1458797/11/06; 05:04:54


OPEC forecasts demand for oil to grow at 1.5 million barrels per day (bpd) until 2010, led by developing countries and the transportation sector, but Barkindo said supply growth would meet or exceed new demand.

"This will bring sufficient upstream capacity," he said. "We in OPEC do not subscribe to the peak-oil theory."


Sundeck: Act of faith? Or is he privy to greater knowledge? judgement is that oil is tight, and alternatives that can be adapted to the world's massive investments in infrastructure and lifestyle (expectations) are a fair-way expect higher prices... and possibly some damned hard recessions.

However all is not necessarily gloom and doom...public and political opinion will swing hard and fast when they do...and, who knows, a new clean-energy day may dawn in which the lion lies down with the his tummy, perhaps...


UsulOPEC do not subscribe to peak-oil theory#1458807/11/06; 06:08:22

Therefore they must not subscribe to the principle that oil is the result of biological residues laid down millions of years ago, and therefore a finite resource that must eventually be depleted if consumption continues indefinitely, and before total depletion may only be supplied at increasing prices as the easiest reserves have been tapped and costs of extraction rise. Therefore, they must subscribe to some other theory, e.g. abiotic oil, or divine intervention. Let us know, OPEC, is it abiotic oil, divine intervention, or some other theory that you subscribe to!
TownCrierIs the Summer 'Doldrum'/correction already over?#1458817/11/06; 13:19:50

Nice price action today. The one-year price chart and the five-year price chart look very solid.

For more info and insight into opportunitistic buying strategies, see the following.

Chris PowellSyria moves reserves to euros and will drop dollar peg this year#1458827/11/06; 15:42:19

By Dania Saadi
Bloomberg News Service
Tuesday, July 11, 2006

CAIRO -- Syria, accused by the U.S. of supporting terrorism, plans to end its currency peg to the dollar by December to reflect closer trade ties with Europe, central bank Governor Adib Mayaleh said.

The Central Bank of Syria has already converted half its foreign-exchange reserves to euros, Mayaleh said in a telephone interview from Damascus, without being more specific. Syria's reserves, including gold, totaled $4.1 billion at the end of 2005, according to
the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency, similar to the amount held by Lithuania's central bank.

"We want to have a currency peg that will reflect our external trade," Mayaleh said yesterday. The European Union is Syria's largest trading partner, taking half of its exports, he said. Italy and France are the biggest destinations for Syrian goods abroad, according to data published by the CIA fact book.

The country may instead link the Syrian pound to a weighted group of currencies including the euro or loans from the International Monetary Fund that are known as Special Drawing Rights, Mayaleh said. SDRs comprise the euro, dollar, yen, and British pound.

Most Middle East countries, including the six oil-producing Persian Gulf monarchies and Jordan, peg their currencies to the dollar. Egypt and Iraq manage floated currencies. The Syrian pound is pegged at 52.2 versus the dollar, according to data compiled by

Central bankers from Kuwait, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates, Russia, Sweden, and Finland have this year indicated they aim to diversify their reserves away from the dollar. Central banks held 24.8 percent of reserves in euros in the first quarter, up from 18.1 percent in 1999 when the single currency was formed, International Monetary Fund figures show.

The euro is appreciating this year after its first annual decline since 2001. It traded at $1.2750 at 11:09 a.m. in New York, from $1.1849 at the start of the year.

The Syrian government is "studying options" with regard to ending the dollar peg, Abdallah Dardari, the country's deputy prime minister for economic affairs, told reporters on the sidelines of a conference in Damascus on June 10.

Syria last year sold $2.9 billion of goods, including crude oil and textiles, to the European Union, according to data from the European Commission. Imports from the EU totaled $2.7 billion. That compares with $155 million from the U.S., based on figures from the U.S. Census Bureau.

The U.S. imposed sanctions on Syria in May 2004, including a ban on trade transactions with the Commercial Bank of Syria, in an effort to halt exports to the country that is accused by President George W. Bush's administration of aiding militants in Iraq and pursuing weapons of mass destruction.

After the fall of the Ottoman Empire in 1918, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine and Jordan used the Egyptian pound as their official currency while under British and French control.

France, which controlled Syria and Lebanon, introduced a franc-based currency for the two countries in 1924 that lasted until the outbreak of the Second World War.

Syria's pattern of trade has shifted from the 1960s, when its major partners were communist-controlled Eastern European states such as Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia, reflecting political ties with the Soviet Union.

By 1984, West Germany, France, Italy, and Japan were Syria's sources of imports, including machinery, transport equipment, iron, and steel. Turkey, followed by Ukraine, China and Russia are now the biggest exporters to the country, according to CIA data for 2004.

Syria is seeking to open its economy after the socialist Baath Party, which came to power 1963, began moving toward a market economy in the 1990s. Syrian officials have allowed private banks and insurance companies to operate for the first time as the country seeks to attract foreign investors.

Economic growth is forecast to reach 6 percent this year as investments continue to flow to the country, the third-largest non-OPEC oil producer in the Middle East, according to Mayaleh.

TrollIran - avoiding the dollar#1458837/11/06; 16:15:50

ATHENS (New Europe) – Iran will start the initial phase of its planned Iranian oil bourse at the end of September, the news agency ISNA reported. An unnamed oil ministry official told ISNA that his ministry had already presented the relevant documents to the economic and finance ministry and the bourse organization.

The building that will house the oil bourse has reportedly already been purchased in the southern Iranian island of Kish. Petrochemical and oil-related products will be made available to customers in the first phase but the volume of the shares to be traded is not yet clear, the official told ISNA. Economics and Finance Minister Davud Danesh-Jafari said last April that the issue had already been agreed upon and that the oil ministry had given the go-ahead for the opening of the bourse. The exchange will have a positive impact on oil sales, not only in Iran but in the wider Gulf region and is slated to replace the current dollar-based oil exchange with one based on the Euro, he said.

The International Petroleum Exchange in London and the New York Mercantile Exchange, on which oil is currently traded, both use the dollar. Iran argues that as long as 60 percent of global oil and 25 percent of natural gas needs are met by Gulf states, oil dealing in either New York or London made no sense.

Iran also wants to circumvent dollar-based oil exchanges to avoid being impacted by the United States economy. The plan to open the exchange in Kish was raised by the administration of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad last year. It was due to be opened before the beginning of the Persian New Year on March 21 but has been postponed several times

Pretty good read.

TrollLink to article#1458847/11/06; 16:17:00

sorry - here is the link
TownCrierOil will hit well over $100 and stay high: Rogers#1458857/11/06; 16:20:33

LONDON (Reuters) - Oil prices will soar to well over $100 a barrel and stay high as part of a sustained commodities bull run that has another 15 years to run, billionaire U.S. investor Jim Rogers told Reuters in an interview.

"We're going to have high oil prices for a very long time. The surprise is going to be how high it goes," Rogers said.

Reiterating earlier comment oil prices would hit at least $100 a barrel, he said: "It will be much more than $100 before the bull market is over."

Rogers, a former investment partner of billionaire fund manager George Soros, has predicted the commodities bull run has at least 15 years to run.

"It's a major long-term bull market as far as I'm concerned," he said.

Aside from the bullish impact of tensions, described by Rogers as temporary, over Iran's nuclear ambitions and North Korea's missile tests, he said oil was drawing long-term support from the lack of large scale finds.

He did not know whether the Peak Oil theory that oil supplies are either at or very near their peak was correct.

But said: "If there is oil out there, you had better find it soon."

...As an indication of how much room the commodities market has to grow, Rogers said there were around 70,000 mutual funds for investing in stocks and bonds and less than 10 to invest in commodities.

"People have started to invest in commodities. It's a bull market and bull markets pick people up as they go higher and higher," he said.

^---(from url)---^

Higher prices for sure, but how are people going to 'participate' in this newfound appreciation for commodities/tangibles? How many people are going to fill their basements with oil? When it comes to "getting real", storage issues (not least among other issues) always provides assurance that gold remains king of the hill.


USAGOLD Daily Market ReportPage Update!#1458867/11/06; 16:47:51">
The Daily Gold Market Report has been updated.

If you are considering investments in gold we invite you to">request our free introductory information packet detailing the products and services offered by USAGOLD ~ Centennial Precious Metals. We welcome your inquiry and look forward to working with you.

TUESDAY Market Excerpts

Gold surges as bombs blast India

July 11 (from MarketWatch) -- In a clear display of their safe-haven allure, gold futures closed higher Tuesday after seven explosions ripped through evening rush-hour commuter trains in Mumbai in a coordinated attack that reportedly killed at least 163 people and injured 460.

Gold for August delivery closed up $17 at $643.10 on the New York Mercantile Exchange, its highest level since June 5.

The train blasts in Mumbai, India's financial center, resonated on the gold market since the country is one of the biggest buyers of physical gold.

"Every time you have a terrorist-related violent act, there'll be a bounce in gold, because it's a move to safety," said Amaury Conti, equity trader at Austin Calvert-Flavin.

No one has claimed responsibility for Tuesday's Mumbai explosions, the Associated Press reported.

Brien Lundin, editor of Gold Newsletter, said: "Gold's the safe haven and the accepted investment when global tensions rise."

Lundin said the dollar is losing favor as a long-store value. "There's a growing consensus that the trend for the dollar is down over the long term."

In another political development, Iran said Tuesday it wouldn't meet a mid-July deadline to respond to an incentive package that western nations designed to deter the country from enriching uranium. After a meeting in Brussels with Javier Solana, the European Union high representative for foreign policy, Iran's chief negotiator said talks on his country's nuclear program will be "a long process," the AP reported.

Western leaders had hoped for a reply from Iran before the Group of Eight summit July 14 in St. Petersburg, Russia. But Iran's negotiator, Ali Larijani indicated that Iran would follow its own timetable.

---(see url for full news, 24-hr newswire)---

TownCrierThe art of central banking: Give the appearance that almost nothing special is happening...#1458877/12/06; 00:50:06


10 July 2006 - Visit by the President of the Slovak Republic

The President of the Slovak Republic, HE Ivan Gašparovi?, visited the European Central Bank (ECB) today. The President was accompanied by HE Ivan Kor?ok, Ambassador of the Slovak Republic to Germany.

The President and his delegation met Jean-Claude Trichet, President of the ECB, as well as other members of the Executive Board of the ECB, for an exchange of views on issues of mutual interest.

The President also visited the exhibition of contemporary art from Slovakia currently on display at the ECB and met ECB staff members from Slovakia.

^---(from url)---^

A simple meeting... for "for an exchange of views on issues of mutual interest."

Shall we yawn together? You'd never suspect anything to crow about is afoot.


TownCrierThe art of central banking: Afterwards, deliver the news in a manner so coy that STILL no-one notices...#1458887/12/06; 00:58:04


11 July 2006 - Communiqué of the European Central Bank and the Banka Slovenije

Following the determination of the euro conversion rate of the Slovenian tolar by the Council on 11 July 2006 by way of an amendment to Regulation (EC) No. 2866/98, which is to become effective as of 1 January 2007, the European Central Bank and Banka Slovenije will monitor developments in the market exchange rate of the Slovenian tolar against the euro in the context of the ERM II agreement.

^---(from url)---^

Slovenia is to become the 13th official user of the euro currency effective January 1st, 2007.

With each step forward by the euro system, the dollar system (as a reserve) falls back one step closer to "barbarous relic" status.

Gather ye gold while ye may.


TownCrier(No Subject)#1458897/12/06; 01:22:24

The irrevocable exchange rate to be set for Slovenian tolar per euro for purposes of final currency union on January 1st looks to be 239.640 tolar/euro, which was the successfully held central rate set June 28th, 2004 for the 2+ years in the ERM II trial period to follow, allowing for a +/- fluctuation of 15%.

Of the recent bloc of accession countries, one in, nine to follow.

And the dollar is supposed to make some sort of valuation headway such that commodity prices come off the boil? Frankly, if the dollar is shown the door, losing its special int'l reserve status, it will quickly be revealed for what it is -- just a run-of-the-mill paper currency like so many pesos and lira that have paved the way of depreciation.


TitanNice to see gold back to $650 again!#1458907/12/06; 07:38:48

Seems that the big jump in POG yesterday and today is due to the unfortunate incidents in India. While I'm sorry for the tragedies, I like seeing gold getting back up over $650 again! My question is do you all think this change will be temporary and that we'll settle back down in the $630's where we were before these bombings? Or do we keep stepping up from now on? I had accepted the "summer doldrums" scenario, but now am not so sure.
osa104cSCO a go?#1458917/12/06; 08:53:42

Is Iran entering the SCO today?....effects?
FlatlinerWeight in trust.#1458927/12/06; 09:53:36

Which weighs more? A ton of gold or a ton of silver? In either case, a couple tons of either could make enough burial masks for all that visit this forum.

27 Jun 2006 365.73
28 Jun 2006 365.73
29 Jun 2006 365.73
30 Jun 2006 371.91
05 Jul 2006 375.00
06 Jul 2006 376.13
10 Jul 2006 383.54
11 Jul 2006 384.47


06/15/2006 6850000
06/16/2006 7000000
06/19/2006 7150000
06/20/2006 7150000
06/21/2006 7150000
06/22/2006 7400000
06/23/2006 7850000
06/26/2006 7850000
06/27/2006 8050000
06/28/2006 8300000
06/29/2006 8300000
06/30/2006 8300000
07/03/2006 8400000
07/04/2006 Holiday
07/05/2006 8800000
07/06/2006 8800000
07/07/2006 8800000
07/10/2006 9150000
07/11/2006 9150000

Flatliner@ a previous melda laure#1458937/12/06; 10:09:20

Joe Duarte's articles always make for a good read. The thing that always seems missing from his articles is the real motivation. Being ‘evil’ does not win you support from the people that you rule. Keeping them employed does.

When I read the article you pointed us all too, I couldn't help but read it a second time as if it were written about GW and see that it applied almost as well. Time will tell.

The problem that we're all living through right now is global. A player here, or there, may stand out at different times, but everyone is moving the same direction. As corporations continue to nickel and dime the population while hiding behind governments the ants will continue to horst hard currencies.

Flatliner@Titan's How do we know?#1458947/12/06; 10:45:08

No one can predict the future.

But, at the same time, there are observations that can be made on a daily basis that can lead you to believe that what happens tomorrow will be very similar to what happens today.

The argument is a philosophical one and not all that bad. Take, for instance, if water flows downhill every day of your life, would you not expect it to continue to run downhill tomorrow? Sure you would. Likewise, when you watch the news tonight what will you expect? I will expect to see war and murder as the top headline told from the point of view of those that right the checks. They will sensationalize anything and drive the articles into the realm of emotion rather then fact. Later, in the 30 minute window that the media provides the masses, they will hype the next cancer treatment telling everyone how bad they need the drug while educating them they it will take their life savings to buy it. Next, they'll talk about strain on consumers as if it is something that lives outside the population in general. It's always focus on the end result of bad policy, never on the source. In the end, they bring out the gladiators and leave the view on an upbeat. We see any amazing leaping catch in center field or a sprint to the finish that wins by the yellow stripe on the front tire. It's all the same, just in a different color.

How do I know? I read the cards and play what I'm dealt. If my opponent deals out paper money to all in the game and then I see him pulling money from the bank to keep his purchasing power up while everyone else's goes down, it makes me play the game differently. To me, it means that the paper that he deals out is a means to an end rather then the end itself. Then, when I watch the player that dealt the money team up with his two best friends to create the laws and control the information flow, I must re-evaluate the situation one more time. If the laws that govern play can change at a moments notice and the information that determines how to position yourself is hidden or omitted, you then start to question the investment games in the paper markets.

The means to an end is how I look at it. In the end, would I rather hold a promise for someone to pay me or the payment itself? If you haven't already guessed, I'll take part (most) of the payment today and leave someone else to hold the promise for tomorrow.

For those that look, they will see that the banker is printing and is forced to print huge sums of fiat and the corporations spin numbers using inflation to make their profits look good and the rules change, at the last minute, to favor those in control so that game just keeps on ticking. We may never run out of cards, but it is curtain that the game will continue to be played.

USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.Let your ACTION be a complement to your KNOWLEDGE! Call today, toll free: 1-800-869-5115#1458957/12/06; 11:04:41">seasonal opportunity
Topazalt Gold.#1458967/12/06; 12:41:51

We should've crossed over today with PoG and Gold both strongly up ...right until the ROTW dropped off @ NY lunch-time leaving the US mgt to paper over the mess.

There's always tomorrow ...isn't there?
One day there won't be ...and we'll then hear the chorus: - "...if only I'd..."'s early here#1458977/12/06; 12:44:26

...with PoG and "DX" both strongly up.
R PowellSilver ETF#1458987/12/06; 15:43:45;jsessionid=11S5DCQN5D5TERJUMRFRBGSFGQ0BYD50?symbol=SLV

Barclay's ETF has a gross net value now well in excess of $ one billion. They have a contract clause which allows them (but does not require them) to stop accepting silver in return for shares of stock once the one billion $$ point is exceeded. Apparently they have decided to ignore this level as the GNV was over that billion point when they held 88 million ounces. But they have accepted more silver, they now claim to physically hold over 91,000,000 ounces. Fwiw
Sierra MadreAn old timer's thoughts on gold....#1458997/12/06; 15:50:48

Hello friends!

I miss the posters of years ago: Belgian, Aristotle and others...

I am in full agreement with Richard Russell's thinking on gold, from personal experience. I've been into gold since the 70's and grew old watching the price go down to $252.50 or something ridiculous like that. I never budged, only bought more.

Now we are seeing days of more action, and it is satisfying to see my fundamental thinking validated, albeit late.

Of course, if I had done other things with the money instead of stashing away gold, perhaps I would be better off. However, people who get hooked on stocks and make a lot of money on them, rarely - I think extremely rarely - are able to reshape their mental attitude and say: "Well, I have done well with stocks, now it's time to invest in gold."

The mind takes on a certain shape and it is very, very hard to change point of view. Buyers of stocks will tend to remain, always, buyers of stocks.

I look at the years passed, as years in which I have enjoyed a great PEACE OF MIND, because I was as secure as a man can be, in owning physical gold. So, what price has PEACE OF MIND? I think it is invaluable!

A Swiss friend of mine - now deceased - told me that the Swiss have what is called a "keller politik". "Keller" means "cellar". In other words, you buy your gold and put it in the cellar and forget about it. Or try to. It will never come out of the cellar, once there! - "Peace of Mind"!

Eventually, I expect I may live to see the day when many of the great fortunes made in stocks will be severely damaged. Then perhaps I will not only have had, peace of mind, but also have proven to myself, to my family and friends, that the old man was absolutely right in his predictions.

My thinking on gold stocks: no doubt a good investment if selected carefully and with a prudent distribution of investment in various mines in different localities.

Since I do not invest in gold stocks, perhaps my opinion on them is not to be taken too seriously. I think, however, that at present, perhaps gold stocks are compared with the rest of the stock market, and I believe the general stock market in the US in particular, is extremely overvalued. Stocks are being bought for their potential to rise, and not for the dividend income. (Gold stocks are not overvalued, in my opinion, at the present time.)

When the adjustment comes and stocks fall to where they are producing a decent dividend - say between 5 to 7% - then gold stocks will also fall with the general market. BUT, unlike others, they WILL be paying hefty dividents. So, they should then separate from the general market and rise to where they should be, prime investments, with a corresponding price.

Further, I can only add that I expect gold to continue RISING in value for many years. The price at which you buy, is really immaterial. Of course, the lower the price, the more you can acquire. Other than that - "KELLER POLITIK"!


Mthirsty1people#1459007/12/06; 15:55:33

It is a sad day when we see the price of gold rise due to civilian deaths.I think the market report could have approached the rise in price in a different manner.Just my 2 cents worth.
USAGOLD Daily Market ReportPage Update!#1459017/12/06; 17:43:06">
The Daily Gold Market Report has been updated.

If you are considering investments in gold we invite you to">request our free introductory information packet detailing the products and services offered by USAGOLD ~ Centennial Precious Metals. We welcome your inquiry and look forward to working with you.

WEDNESDAY Market Excerpts

Gold tops $650 amid global tensions

July 12 (from MarketWatch) -- Gold futures rallied Wednesday, closing at their highest level in more than a month, as political instability in the Middle East, India and North Korea fuelled safe-haven demand.

The August contract ended the session up $8.10 at $651.20 on the New York Mercantile Exchange, its highest closing level since May 30.

Gold prices were driven higher by political developments across the globe. Western powers tried to respond to defiance from North Korea and Iran on their nuclear programs, Hezbollah militants kidnapped two Israeli soldiers triggering an Israeli attack on southern Lebanon, and the death toll in Tuesday's rush-hour train attacks in Mumbai climbed to 200.

As long as there is no resolution in the crises in Iran, Iraq, Gaza, and North Korea, "gold will keep drawing safe-haven buyers under its protective wing," said Jon Nadler, an analyst at Kitco.

"The seasonal factors one could usually count on to slow the action in the trading pits are now taking a back seat to the anxieties created by aggravated world conditions," Nadler said.

The five permanent members of the United Nations Security Council and Germany said Wednesday they will send Iran back to the council for possible punishment, since the country has given no indication that it's willing to negotiate seriously with the west on its nuclear activities, the Associated Press reported.

Also Wednesday, the senior U.S. envoy to North Korea, Christopher Hill, said that North Korea was not cooperating with diplomatic attempts to end its missile tests and to resume six-nation negotiations on its nuclear disarmament, AP reported.

In India, the death toll from the train attacks rose to at least 200 people, while the injured are now estimated at more than 700. "Yesterday's terrorist attacks in India are probably reminding investors that anti-western groups are active across the world and while some plans can be disrupted, it is optimistic to expect all will be," said John Bridges, a J.P. Morgan analyst.

In the Middle East, two Israeli soldiers were captured by the Lebanese group Hezbollah in a raid in which several other Israeli soldiers were killed. In response, the Israeli army attacked areas in southern Lebanon. The United States blamed Syria and Iran for the kidnapping of the two Israeli soldiers and called for their immediate release.

"Political worries have no doubt been emphasized in investors' minds by Israel's incursion into Lebanon this morning," J.P. Morgan's Bridges said.

---(see url for full news, 24-hr newswire)---

GOLD FINGERThe world is dangerous!#1459027/12/06; 17:50:26

The fact that we live in perilous times should come to no surprise to anyone here. With world tensions mounting and world conditions deteriorating we live in an extremely volatile place. A few days back I pondered on the idea of

...what if....I lived in a war torn society with daily bombing raids and gun fire and even the possibility of death?

What if my current way of living suddenly came to a screeching halt and dramatically changed forever?

As I see it with all the world disasters and troubles it act as a simple reminder that mortality is very fragile and we all hinge on life altering situations daily.

What if....the unmanageable HIT us here in God's country?

I do not think I really have to spell it out, but, we all face many unpredictable times and an even more unpredictable future. Not being critical here, we have all seen how unprepared the US was when several disasters hit and very close together.

Are we any more prepared now?

How many of us have things in order to withstand disaster? Do you even have a food storage or water storage?

So why not stock up on GOLD?

I did enjoy your comments Sierra Madre on the "keller politik". I think this shows how that countries that had war in the region needed the peace of some preparations and that a cellar was and STILL is a good idea!

...... HOW high will GOLD rise when the big one hits??? Hope your one of the few who is prepared.

TownCrierTrade deficit increases as oil prices jump by largest amount in nearly 16 years#1459037/12/06; 18:08:12

WASHINGTON (AP) -- A record jump in the price of imported oil pushed the trade deficit to $63.8 billion in May, offsetting robust overseas sales gains by American companies.

On Wall Street, stocks dropped sharply after a separate report showed that weekly oil inventories fell to their lowest level since early March. That raised the prospect that the U.S. will have to import even more oil.

The price of foreign oil jumped by the largest amount since the run-up to the first U.S.-Iraq war in 1990, and America's trade imbalance rose 0.8 percent from a revised April deficit of $63.3 billion, the Commerce Department said Wednesday.

The monthly deficit was the sixth-largest ever.

...The increase in the May deficit reflected a 16.9 percent surge in the foreign oil bill. It totaled $27.9 billion, $4 billion more than in April.

The increase reflected a big jump in the average price of imported crude oil, to $61.74 a barrel. That was $4.92 higher than the month before. Also, it was the biggest one-month increase since oil rose by $6.06 a barrel from August to September in 1990 after Iraq's invasion of Kuwait sent global oil prices soaring.

Economists are predicting the trade deficit will worsen, reflecting additional increases in world oil prices. They reached a record last week, above $75 a barrel.

...The administration is facing increasing pressure in an election year to show progress in dealing with the trade deficit. New Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson has said he will continue to pursue efforts to get China to overhaul its currency system to allow the yuan to rise in value against the dollar.

American manufacturers contend that the yuan is undervalued by as much as 40 percent against the dollar...

^---(from url)---^

There's no way to interpret this in any way that doesn't look bleak for the dollar's future purchasing power.

Therefore, choose the form of your savings wisely... choose a tangible stockpile of gold coins instead of a here-today-gone-tomorrow account of paper/digital dollars which are overripe for depreciation.

Using your dollars to purchase enduring tangibles today effectively captures the dollars' purchasing power while it remains, and that, my friends, is really what it's all about. By contrast, if you insist on holding your currency past its prime, it can become as worthless for use in the real world as Monopoly money. Again, the act of earning money is ultimately about obtaining and utilizing its PURCHASING POWER, not collecting the money for its own sake. To be sure, purchasing power, while it lasts, along with the ability to cancel monetary debt, are the only merits that the accounting- and physchological- phenomenon known as "money" possesses.

Know the merits (or the lack thereof) of the things (and notions) you hold, and you shan't likely go astray.


FlatlinerEconomic Barometer #1459047/12/06; 19:04:10


Purchases of government debt by central banks boosting their foreign-exchange reserves have depressed yields in recent years, according to studies sponsored by the Fed and analysis by investment banks. That's changing the bond market's traditional role as a barometer for expectations for growth and inflation, according to strategists at UBS AG.
``Arguably, oil prices have taken over the role from bond yields as the most representative indicator of the global economic cycle,'' UBS currency strategists, led by Mansoor Mohi- uddin in London, wrote in a July 10 report. This is because of ``the distorting presence of foreign central banks in the U.S. Treasury market,'' they wrote.
Foreign investors, including central banks, own more than half of the $4.3 trillion of tradable Treasuries outstanding, according to U.S. Treasury data.
Worst in Class
Barclays strategists' trading recommendation is to ``short'' U.S. Treasuries and Japanese government bonds. In a short position, an investor borrows a security and sells it, expecting to be able to buy it back at a cheaper price.
``Bonds are the asset class least likely to do well in coming months,'' wrote Kantor. ``The trajectory for all yields in the global bond markets is upwards,'' he wrote.

Flatliner – As much as I believe there is some objective above and beyond looking out for their clients, this little bit of the article seems to point out another means by which the game is different this time. It is interesting to see this admittance to the fact that central banks control free market interest rates. It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone here, but as long as the interest rates are below real inflation rates, commodities will be the safe haven.

The rate of discovery is the most interesting part of this scenario. How long will it take the above average Joe to figure out that his investments are netting losses year over year? When that above average Joe finally sees this, he will feed the bull.

Topaz@F-Liner.#1459057/13/06; 00:11:20

<...Bonds are the asset class least likely to do well in coming months,'' wrote Kantor. ``The trajectory for all yields in the global bond markets is upwards...>

I don't think Mr Kantors' horison extends much past last week ....and will be very surprised not to see a 4 point something by NEXT week, then on to Zool ...120TYX/120DX for x-mas ...maybe!!.

I do agree with your first thought FL, and whats more would suggest those who short-sell Buck AND Bonds here do so at their peril IMHO.

SundeckChina's gold output...#1459067/13/06; 05:08:41

...increasing. Now about 220 tonnes per annum and fourth after South Africa, USA and Australia. Production almost exactly matches consumption.


SundeckRussia and Iran lead the new energy game #1459077/13/06; 05:57:03


The Russian masterstroke is to divert the bulk of upcoming Iranian gas exports to Asia - while Russia is still negotiating a very complex and very lucrative deal with Brussels to supply the European Union. Tehran and Moscow have reached a remarkable agreement. Putin and Iranian President Mahmud Ahmadinejad will be working in tandem. In Shanghai they all but decided to consult on all matters regarding gas prices and the new routes of Pipelineistan. Control of prices plus transportation routes obviously spell out a gas OPEC (Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries) just around the corner (Putin though was careful to dub it just "a joint venture", not a cartel).


Preemption is the (Russian) name of the game. Russia's strategic partnership with China has been solidified via the SCO. On the ultra-sensitive Iranian nuclear dossier, Moscow's game is extremely flexible, and all about nuance, as are Russia's relations with the Islamic world. It is charging market prices to both Ukraine and Georgia for its gas. And sooner - rather than much later - the gas OPEC with Iran and Central Asia may be a done deal.

Sundeck: A Russian built pipeline from Iran through Pakistan to India and eventually to China. Wow!

You can see "energy domination" unfolding on the Asian landmass before our eyes. No wonder Tony Blair is talking up a nuclear future for the UK, and John Howard (Australia's Prime Minister) recently returned from the USA preaching a nuclear future for Australia...seems everyone is allowed to go nuclear except poor, li'l ol' Iran!

How much is the USA prepared to sacrifice to maintain a toe-hold in the energy-rich Middle East?

It is hard to see energy diversification NOT becoming an ENORMOUS issue from here on... Britain, Europe, the USA and other "western" powers who find themselves more and more outside the world petroleum centroid will be thrust headlong into alternative energy technologies in a do-or-die contest. Coal liquification and gasification, new generation nuclear fission reactors, "moonshine" for autos, switch-grass, solar, wind, name it.

I hope the oil-rich protagonists have the good sense not to wittingly or unwittingly starve the western powers of sufficient oil and gas before alternatives are available or the world risks replicating the trigger for the Pacific War.


USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.Why gold? Because through the long years it never falls out of esteem.#1459087/13/06; 11:19:25

Golden Goal

"Treasure chests throughout history
have been filled with gold, and not by idle choice."

-- R. Strauss

TownCrierGold#1459097/13/06; 13:13:37

Market prices never move in a straight line or along a comfortably predictable path, but rather in such a way to keep as many people as possible completely dumbfounded and off-balance.

Years hence, as we all look back on this time, will you be among the relatively few that boldly established the bulk of your holdings at sub-$1,000 per ounce price levels?

As for that, a special tip o' the hat goes out to those very few who arrived early at an understanding that allowed them to take action and confidently seize gold and hang onto it during the tumultuous sub-$300 days at the turn of the millennium. And I'd be willing to wager that many of them are still to this day adding to their holdings based on that same understanding.

Applied knowledge is a very powerful force to enhance your quality of life. I'll ride that vehicle over randomness any day of the week.


melda laureRFP: Rise of Oil Central Banking (no thanks)#1459107/13/06; 13:45:29

It all sounds so reasonable, just what the doctor ordered... yet it sounds so familiar... Oh, of course, that's what these central planners do nowadays with credit! Now they want to ration oil too!

Behind the scenes there is also the perennial racist idea that there are too many people in the world- especially of the "undesireable" races. I doubt these ideas will ever fly.

The complaints about "market mechanisms only" are misleading, we haven't had a free market in oil for many years, and for good political reasons. I fail to see why those keeping oil "unfree" are going to change their minds in favor of the people who have been on the losing end.

It is also absurd to speak of 50 year transition periods. Unless energy from the vacuume is going to be deveolped, there IS NO future low cost energy source.

Embarassing to read this article on FSO. I wonder about the author's motivations. Perhaps someone else can parse this.

osa104cYUCK!!!!#1459117/13/06; 15:48:58

she oVER spent.....!!!!..had to cash in one ounce....bought at three ---- elEVEN (us$)in $610 USD$ today...........will buy many more OZ"S>>>>>>>>>>>>US$ brainer..../// conversion od fiat..............I'm grateful for this forum, a gracious and forgiving LORD..... and the precious yellow sunlight and silver mOOn light...........AMF
USAGOLD Daily Market ReportPage Update!#1459127/13/06; 16:50:25">
The Daily Gold Market Report has been updated.

If you are considering investments in gold we invite you to">request our free introductory information packet detailing the products and services offered by USAGOLD ~ Centennial Precious Metals. We welcome your inquiry and look forward to working with you.

THURSDAY Market Excerpts

Gold extends gains afterhours to $660

July 13 (from MarketWatch) -- Gold futures climbed past $660 an ounce Thursday in electronic trading, gaining as much as $7 from the regular session's closing level as escalating violence in the Middle East sent oil prices to record levels.

At last check Thursday evening, gold for August contracts were up $6.60 at $661 in electronic trading. The contract closed up $3.20 at $654.40 for the regular trading session on the New York Mercantile Exchange.

The metal has gained more than 15% in the last month.

The flaring of violence between Israel and Lebanon sent crude-oil futures to record highs and gave a boost to gold, while the U.S. stock market tanked.

On Thursday, Israel bombed Beirut's international airport and imposed an air and sea blockade on Lebanon in response to the kidnappings of two Israeli soldiers along the Israel-Lebanon border by Hezbollah on Wednesday.

Raids on targets across southern Lebanon have killed at least 35 civilians, including children, the BBC reported. In response, Hezbollah militants fired rockets at the Israeli port city of Haifa, according to media reports.

"Israel's attack on Lebanon once again reveals just how fragile the situation in the Middle East really is and how isolated events can escalate into regional conflicts literally overnight," said Kitco's analyst Jon Nadler.

"Safe-haven buying of gold continues to play an important role in its current price equation, as much as some market critics would attempt to downplay the cause-and-effect factor or durability of crisis-induced rallies," he added.

Israel's offensive against Lebanon comes as it continues a separate operation in the Gaza Strip, where another Israeli solider was taken hostage.

About 71 Palestinians have been killed in that operation.

On Wednesday, the U.S. blamed Syria and Iran for the kidnappings of the two soldiers.

For its part, Russia condemned Israel for its "disproportionate use of force" and for causing damage to civilian infrastructure in the Palestinian territories and Lebanon.

---(see url for full news, 24-hr newswire)---

The Invisible HandNext Wednesday: Heritage Foundation seminar on Iran's accession to SCO#1459137/13/06; 20:39:18

The G8 St Petersburg summit ends next Monday, July 17.
I put my hand in the fire for Iran being admitted to the SCO on Tuesday, July 18.
And on Wednesday, July 19, The Heritage Foundation organises a seminar on the subject in Washington, DC.

After the G-8: The Future Orbit of U.S.-Russian Relations
July 19, 2006
Russia is expanding its strategic cooperation with China and Iran in the framework of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, which promotes its "multi-polar" agenda.


FINAL CALL: Got gold?

slingshotHey Gold Finger#1459147/13/06; 21:31:49

Get yourself a good pump shotgun, 12 ga. A good sidearm.
A 9mm or 45 cal. I extend my capabilities with a 6 inch knife. Carbon steel prefered.

osa104cSlingshot..........#1459157/13/06; 21:47:24

Glock 40 cal.........Ken Onion carbon steel.....and a good brush rifle...........GOT your 6????........silver delights...........AMF
osa104cSlingshot..........#1459167/13/06; 21:47:29

Glock 40 cal.........Ken Onion carbon steel.....and a good brush rifle...........GOT your 6????........silver delights...........AMF
slingshotosa104c#1459177/13/06; 22:15:12

My good knight,it is always a pleasure to hear a contrasting point if veiw concerning protection.
In all I believe that the lowly 22 cal. can be as effective as a 357 mag placed effectively. With the accumulation of wealth preservation comes wealth security.
I ask, can you defend, in the most ultimate degree?

slingshotosa104c#1459187/13/06; 22:31:59

You seem to feel me out but I beleve we are on the same plain. Yes.I can draw down and shoot one who intrudes upon my security. Let there be no fuzzle as my intended target is human, But I think goldbugs will in th future will deal with this.

slingshotosa104c#1459197/13/06; 22:36:09

Where do you hail from?

slingshotFirearms ,Sir M.K. and Towncrier#1459207/13/06; 22:57:31

I do not Know what your state permits. I can say with a carry permit I have no fear.

slingshotBelgian#1459217/13/06; 23:17:47

Hey, you old fart. What are you up to these days?

FlatlinerSlingshot#1459227/13/06; 23:42:13

It is interesting your call to Belgian. Seeing that the forum is so slow, I went digging through the archive to see if I could determine who the old-timers with respect to rare postings and new-bees. Well, I came across an old post from Belgian. In that post, he had done some simple calculations to determine how many ½ million dollar investors it would take to buy up all the physical gold trading in the markets. The exercise was interesting, but possibly flawed. Even though I measure the ETF holdings, I believe that is a sideshow.

Re-reading some of the words from Another, I can't help but think hard about this: (StartSnip) "The message has been for some years, "we will accumulate thru the back door, using paper deals if you keep the price at or below the cost of production". Do this and oil will remain THE driving force of the world economy!


You see, gold is not a commodity. The CBs have used every weapon to keep it's price low . Understand me, Gold is now, today, a devalued currency being used in world trade!" (EndSnip).

Hum… A devalued currency being used in world trade. This is very interesting and worth pondering – almost like bargain shopping.

GOLD FINGERBRING IT ON!#1459237/13/06; 23:58:15


I knew eventually I would have to have this little chat about self defense. You see security is now becoming a huge issue. With your wealth comes increased concern for protection and security. There are those who will go to any end to get what YOU got! Here in the west things were always settled with a rifle or 45.

Fortunately, I was raised with a fine understanding of how to use them. If needed and if I was under attack I would defiantly and with out hesitation use my weapons to take care of the bad guyS. Nothing beats an automatic shot gun to pump full of BLAST! There are several other nice pieces that have the capability of making a hole bigger than your fist!

I can share and would be happy to help my neighbor. But there may come a time when you really have to take care of your self!!

Go get some GOLD now boy!



n 1: the act of contracting or assuming or acquiring possession of something; "the acquisition of wealth"; "the acquisition of one company by another" 2: something acquired; "a recent acquisition by the museum" 3: the cognitive process of acquiring skill or knowledge; "the child's acquisition of language" [syn: learning] 4: an ability that has been acquired by training [syn: skill, accomplishment, acquirement, attainment]

slingshotFlatliner#1459247/14/06; 00:00:43

I portray no disrespect and respect you coming to the defense of Belgian I would think Belgian pays me no attention at all. You have to understand his answers are as complex as Another and he wishes to tell us all but can not.

TopazGold up=dollar up ...Yawn, ho-hum!#1459327/14/06; 01:09:19

Yes, we could be in for a repeat of Sept '05 where we "foreigners" get to enjoy an exponential run-up in PoG ...all those who copied the alt chart as I suggested back then would know what to look for ...and a prettier site there isn't in all of Wonderland.
melda laureOnly good children get candy, the ugly ones aren't allowed in the store#1459337/14/06; 01:15:58

If they are mere criminals it is one thing, if it is a government it is quite another thing entirely:

"If you have the greater force, negotiate, if you have the lesser force- then use deception, if evenly matched- fight."

At least that was the chinese saying as I recall. Though I would probably do all three. But this is a matter of strategy, training, and circumstance. Ending these things is often more difficult than starting them.

Sir FL, it seems your persian-SCO-russian interpretation is correct, at least Mr Ron Paul also concures. The July 12th deadline has passed and presumably we have Hezboallah's answer.

Given the fluid "wild west" situation in south Lebannon, gaza and so on, I dont see why anyone would expect any different outcome than the present situation. I can not imagine similar cross border raids being permitted by Syria or Jordan without their consent.

snip: We have provided a tremendous incentive for Russia and China, and others like Iran, to organize through the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. They entertain future challenges to our plans to dominate South East Asia, the Middle East, and all its oil.

Radicalizing the Middle East will in the long term jeopardize Israel's security, and increase the odds of this war spreading.

Well we've had our 50% retracement (and more) at this point, that and the sleepy chirp of crickets here must foretell a buying signal of some sort soon. Given that gold is a "devalued currency" I wonder what it buys? Are the persians buying security, nuke-freedom and gold from the russians? "Prices" are often misleading; when seeking rarities, it is often more a question of FINDING a "source" rather than merely the best price.

GOLD FINGERGOLD BUG~#1459357/14/06; 02:22:06


An individual who thinks that investors should keep all or part of their assets in the form of gold. The tendency to recommend gold nearly always stems from the gold bug's expectation of rapid or uncontrolled growth of the money supply accompanied by high rates of inflation. Some gold bugs also predict economic collapse with gold becoming the standard of payment.

I think this is starting to happen now~

SundeckHow far away is the Ruble from being internationalized? #1459367/14/06; 05:21:16


This month Russia introduced free convertibility of the Russian ruble. Russia has also fast tracked the establishment of a domestic oil exchange, and plans to use the ruble as the currency of settlement in the exchange. The realization of free convertibility of the ruble is one of the changes made possible by Russia's stable macroeconomic situation, adequate level of foreign exchange reserves, and financial surplus. The timing of the internationalization of the ruble has caused some concern.


In Robert A. Mundell's ¡®Father of the Euro' paper, "Order, Flow and Exchange Rate Dynamics", the economy has three objectives, only two of which can be achieved simultaneously; stability of exchange rates, free capital flow, and monetary policy independence. Using this idea, if Russia were to adopt a fixed ruble exchange rate, it would lose its independent monetary policy as soon as it opened its financial market. This is absolutely unacceptable to such a big country. While aiming for financial liberation, an independent monetary policy is likely to increase the fluctuation of the exchange rate. Obviously, maintaining the relative stability of the exchange rate level is of great importance to Russia, a country whose economic growth is to a large extent dependent on energy and commodity exports. It is of special significance that Russia has announced that it will be the responsibility of the current government to forecast the risks arising from free ruble convertibility and to take measures to minimize those risks. It is by no means a wise policy to hurry the internationalization of the ruble.

Sundeck: It will be interesting to follow the growing importance of the ruble as Russia continues to throw off the handicaps of 70 years of communism.

Hopefully endemic privileged cliques and rampant capitalist corruption won't derail social mobility for the masses. The challenge will be for Russia to evolve towards an egalitarian society rather than one in which wealth and opportunity become ever more localised within select groups.

Russia has the largest land-mass of any country...enormous untapped wealth in energy and resources. They also have a highly sophisticated industrial base.

Interesting times...


SundeckCentral Bank Raises Rates in Japan #1459377/14/06; 05:46:58


If they raised borrowing costs too soon, they risked snuffing out growth and pushing Japan back into recession. But if they waited too long, they faced the danger of allowing Japan's economy to overheat, sparking inflation or fueling an asset price bubble in Tokyo's resurgent real estate and stock markets.

What they want to do is avoid past mistakes that had raised questions about its ability to manage Japan. The biggest was its failure to respond quickly to twin real estate and stock market bubbles in the late 1980's, and then to raise rates too quickly when it did act. The result was a hard landing that many economists have cited for keeping Japan in a slump during the 1990's.

More recently, the bank made an ill-timed rate increase in 2000, when the economy was still weak, and then had to cut rates in an embarrassing reversal a few months later.


Sundeck: Mmmm...the past record of the BOJ is not all that might say they have done a boji in the past...

On the face of it, you wouldn't think that 1/4 of one lousy percent would alter things one iota. On a 1 million yen loan (about US$8500), that amounts to an interest "burden" of 2500 yen per year, or about US$20. Can anyone convince me that the economic system of any country, or even any household, is THAT finely tuned??

But then, maybe it's all about perceptions...

Certainly the global stock markets copped it in the neck today...a double whammy of record oil prices and a whiff of tightening liquidity in Japan...


SundeckWhy Gold Will Break All Records#1459387/14/06; 06:09:06

A longish article that touches on many things...

Sundeck does not necessarily endorse all things said in this article...


WhitewaterwomanAmen Goldfinger, Slingshot and Osa!#1459397/14/06; 07:38:27

When the time comes when conditions are so perilous that you MUST protect your gold, silver, other assets and family with deadly force, you'd better already own those guns and ammo because the gun & sporting goods stores will have been CLEANED OUT.

Ask any gun store owner what his inventory was like immediately after September 11, 2001. Cleaned-out shelves, waiting lists, and for concealed-carry licensing classes, a wait of 2-3 months...then a wait of up to 6 months to get the license.

These things are best prepared for NOW.

Nice to see gold above $660 today, sad that it's because people are dying.

osa104cI AM????.......TRUTH#1459407/14/06; 07:55:30

Slingshot.........I hail from SO CAL....Ventura County....not many like minded people.....but truth can always be found............"WE" all know what "WE" ought to do..........Practice, Practice--------<>......PREPAIR.......AMF
Chris PowellSurge in gold options above $1,000 hints at hedge fund interest#1459417/14/06; 10:07:06

By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
The Telegraph, London
Friday, July 14, 2006

A sudden surge in demand for gold options cashable at over $1,000 an ounce is the clearest sign to date that hedge funds and savvy traders are betting on a big rise in bullion prices.

UBS said investors had begun to show keen interest in "call" options to expire in December with strike prices of $1,000 an ounce and above.

The bank said buyers had even emerged for options dated late 2007 with a strike price of $2,500.

John Reade, the bank's precious metals strategist, said: "Clearly some options traders are positioning themselves for very large moves higher."

The prices are far above gold's all-time high of $850 at the height of the oil and inflation crisis in 1980. Gold closed yesterday at $653.

Buying a call option gives investors the right to buy a quantity of metal (or shares or other instrument) at a fixed price, on a set date. If the price falls short, the option expires worthless. If it shoots above the strike level, traders can make huge multiples on their stake. "Put" options act in reverse, gambling on a price fall.

Mr. Reade said: "They're like lottery tickets. You lose most of the time, but when you win, you can win big."

The December 2006 call option with a strike price of 1,000 last traded at $3.60. This means a bet of $3.60 could net $100 if gold reaches $1,100 an ounce by December, or $200 if it reaches $1,200, and so on.

Traders can re-sell options any time before expiry, making fat gains on wild volatility.

The options are traded on New York's Comex exchange, or on the Over the Counter (OTC) market. The bulk are issued by UBS, Deutsche Bank, and Goldman Sachs.

Gold has shown remarkable resilience since crashing from $730 to $544 an ounce in the May commodity sell-off.

The metal has regained more than half the ground, bringing in a fresh wave of "black box" momentum traders this week after breaking through key technical resistance at $637.

Ross Norman, director of, said gold was still under-priced compared to oil, trading at about eight barrels of crude per ounce compared to an historic average of nearer 15.

"Gold is due a catch-up. Once it goes above $750 there is potential for galloping price rises," he said.

Both the Russian and Emirate central banks are supporting the market, each buying the dips in a slow move to lift the gold share of their foreign reserves to 10 percent

It is hard to pinpoint why so many wealthy investors have become gold bugs, but fears of a dollar slide are a key part of the picture.

The concern is that the US Federal Reserve will ultimately opt for easy money rather than dispensing bitter medicine to purge excesses of debt and over-spending. Neither the euro nor the yen are seen as strong enough to serve as durable alternatives.

Key EU finance ministers have already said they will resist a rise in the euro above $1.30, while Japan's finance ministry is battling to hold down the yen.

Flatliner@melda laure#1459437/14/06; 11:13:43

Are the persians buying security, nuke-freedom and gold from the russians?

That's a good question in a complicated environment.

Many of the old timers in this forum are familiar with the theories that the US was able to keep its Dollar functional after closing the gold window by creating the strong dollar policy. It seems that this policy might have stretched out to a key oil producer through some back door that contracted security and low gold price for oil flow and dollar support. For years, no one had any "real" idea that the values exchanged worked to both parties advantage.

I'm starting to believe that key players around the world started to figure this relationship out in the late 90's. Today, I believe that it's fairly common knowledge amongst the "Big Traders".

This drives me to guess.

Recently, we have heard the CB governor of the UAE say that gold is too expensive to buy at this point. They have threatened to convert their reserves into gold, but will not. It seems to me that the contract, if it provides security, may be far more valuable to them then running the price of gold publicly.

We have also heard words from Russia stating that they want fair market value for their energy. What does this mean? How will they get it? Consider, if the US has oil trading at a low price in dollars and they provide security to the producer the end result is a fiat that trade well with oil – oil backs the fiat. Now, let's think about Russia. They are both an oil producer and a controller of the Fiat – very much like the US was many years ago. They will be in a position to print huge amounts of currency because of the oil demand. But, I would assume that Russia has analyzed the contractual relationship that the US dollar uses to get low oil prices and have realized that because they are not getting gold, they are not getting fair market value for their energy resources.

Does Russia get gold for their oil? Do they want gold for their oil? Or, do they want a convertible currency? To me, it is still unclear exactly what they want.

On a side note, if the gold market was cornered by "Big Trader" when Another spoke in this forum, I could see exactly how this words have meaning that we are all experiencing

Date: Sat Oct 18 1997 21:04

The battle is now between CBs trying to keep gold in the $300s and the "others" buying it up. In effect the governments are selling gold in any form to "KEEP IT" being used as 'REAL MONEY" in oil deals! Some people know this, that is why they aren't trading it,, they are buying it.

Reflecting back on the years, CBs have been selling gold and it would seem that they have been using the gold to maintain the privilege of fiat. Gold must be placed into circulation so that there will be gold for oil deals that support the fiat currency. Public paper sales in the markets can cover physical shipments moving out of the vaults in a nice fashion.

What if the next largest oil producer places gold on reserve to take advantage of the MTM functionality and also creates a fully convertible currency that everyone can use to buy the oil? At the same time, they do not need to provide or buy any security on a worldly scale using the oil (or gold). If this is the case, I would expect that they would hold the price of oil low relative to their own currency making it strong in oil and at the same time, they will not price oil in gold. The end result will be a new reserve currency where they can gain the privilege of taxation through inflation on a worldly scale.

Where is Freegold in all of this? If Middle Eastern countries are forced to buy security with their oil, it would seem to me that Iran's position is to side with Russia and give support to the Ruble. It would also seem that as long as none of the Middle Eastern states can fully protect themselves (forced to buy security) they will not be in a position to price oil in gold. This will make it hard for gold to trade freely at a fair market price.

If anyone has information regarding the private gold markets, I would like to hear about it. Another hinted that the gold held by CBs is a very small amount. I would like to learn more about this.

ArmageddonGold ETFs and Options on ETFs#1459447/14/06; 12:16:33

I was wondering if anyone out there could recommend a gold ETF and gold options fund that can be traded on that ETF?

Currently my online broker does not directly offer call options on gold. Thanks.

TownCrierArmageddon, on gold ETFs, options, and the hunting of deer (c. 1978)...#1459457/14/06; 12:59:02

To go along with that bandana and revolver, would you like one bullet, or two?

Sounds like you're trying to set yourself up for de ol' Niro-death investment experience. Catch my drift?

Without another word on the subject, I'm Christopher Walken myself out of this one.



Armageddon@TownCrier - Gold Options#1459467/14/06; 13:09:34

I know options are risky but I believe gold might be going up over $1,000 by the end of the year. I am new to options and have only traded using my online account. Would you know a good place to buy call options on gold? Is there usually a minimum amount you need to invest for an option? Any info would be appreciated for this options newbie. :)
TownCrier@Armageddon#1459477/14/06; 13:14:11

Did you see that football match the other day? Hey, what's that shiny thing just over there...


melda laure"Banking" should be thought of in broad terms sometimes.#1459487/14/06; 13:28:02

Yes FL, a complicated environment.

As they perhaps could not ship all they wanted to from their swiss hoard, perhaps russian "banking" intermediaries could assist in a manner similar to the Bundesbank-FED-USTreas. dealings that we found out about a few years back? The russians "receive" persian gold on deposit in Geneva, and the persians receive freshly mined ingots shipped along with the next shippment of caviar, and control rods or whatever (not stolichnaya- they're muslims! Perhaps some nastoika? Regardless of the mechanics of the deal, Iran and Russia share a border.

Well it is only a thought, all sides can play this game. I doubt that the Iranians and Russians trust each other- it is a marriage of convenience. Though it would be amusing to find that Iranian gold, "leased out" suddenly became real gold when new owners with more clout took possession of the debts and demanded payment. We call them "repo-men" in this country. Some are more persuasive than others.

geFlatliner msg#: 145943 Some anectodal news about local gold markets#1459497/14/06; 14:04:57

Link in Turkish:

A somewhat shortened attempt at translation:
Iranians are bringing cash to Turkey in suitcases and buying gold

Cash inflow from Iran in the form of banknotes is being observed at the Covered Market after Iran, becomes the second targeted country due to its nuclear program (Covered Bazaar is a district of Istanbul where jewellery shops are in majority).

Turkey that had enjoyed a considerable amount of cash inflow before the US attack at Iraq, has now become the focus of interest of Iranian wealthy. The president of Security Exchange Commission has reported that an influx of money is being felt in the markets, although no concrete data is available. The president said that the impression they get from the Covered Market shopkeepers is that there is a net inflow of money from Iran. The president expects the influx of money to continue since the origin of money is not questioned in Turkey.

Money comes in banknotes

The president commented that the money transfer is made in banknotes, therefore no data is available. He added that Iran would not allow the outflow of money through the banking system, however, the transfers are made as physical banknotes in pockets of dresses or in suitcases.

A reporter from Covered Market

Iranians buy gold from shopkeepers they personally know or from shops recommended by people they know. Big buyers buy bars while small buyers choose Turkish bullion coins. Gold valued less than 50,000YTL (~USD 30,000) is not subject to export procedures, therefore purchases are below 50,000YTL). Gold bought is carried by a suitcase. It is being reported that jewellery shops near to the Iran border are also feeling an increase in business. Iranians are making one-day trips to these border towns and making purchases.

TownCrierge, the Turkish-Iranian "suitcase" gold trade#1459507/14/06; 14:19:56

At current market prices, each US30,000 purchase would result in a return trip home with a pile of golden savings weighing approximately three conventional pounds. It would strain their arms less than toting a conventional laptop computer.

From the "For what it's worth" Department.


Flatliner@ge#1459517/14/06; 15:16:04

melda laureFL#1459527/14/06; 16:39:34

Termites, they're chewing paper and mining gold.
Topazalt Currency PoG.#1459537/14/06; 17:09:32

From the perspective of those who hold alternative currencies to Buck, the recent pull-back has been fully retraced and we can now resume our close association with PoG.

Well, not so fast!
To achieve same, $PoG needs to keep rising AND DX has to resume it's descent.
If we continue with the DX up PoG up, our Chart will continue on it's current merry way.
Degrees of incorrectness: -
I will admit to being wrong about Bucks strength in the past but, not as wrong as those calling for a DX rout.

...DX-92 is still closer ...much closer than DX-80 imo.

We'll see!

USAGOLD Daily Market ReportPage Update!#1459547/14/06; 17:34:27">
The Daily Gold Market Report has been updated.

If you are considering investments in gold we invite you to">request our free introductory information packet detailing the products and services offered by USAGOLD ~ Centennial Precious Metals. We welcome your inquiry and look forward to working with you.

FRIDAY Market Excerpts

Gold up $13+, oil hits record-high $78/barrel

July 14 (from DowJones, MarketWatch) -- Comex gold futures continue to gain momentum, with the most-active August contract hitting a fresh six-week high of $669 an ounce Friday amid rising geopolitical concerns as oil prices inched closer to $80 a barrel.

The benchmark August gold contract settled $13.60 higher at $668. The contract got as high as $669 an ounce just ahead of the close as the fund buying frenzy escalated.

Amid the current [geopolitical] tensions... "no one wanted to go home short this weekend," said a trader.

"The market seems to be in the buy-the-dips mood since the bombs hit the railway carriages in India on Tuesday and the Middle East unrest that added fuel into the fire," said analysts at MKS Finance.

Gold made gains despite a firm U.S. dollar as the yellow metal continues to attract safe-haven buying as tensions persist and gold is often viewed as a hedge against inflation.

"Further strikes on Lebanon by the Israeli army are generating concerns over the possibility of the region sliding towards war, which is likely to provide further upside potential for the yellow metal with a possibility of re-testing the $700 level," the analysts said.

Israel intensified its attacks on Lebanon, continuing to bomb Beirut's international airport, major roads, power and communications infrastructure.

Responding to the deterioration of security in the Middle East, the U.S. stock market tanked Friday, and is down more than 400 points in three days.

Earlier this week, deadly train bombings in India's financial center of Mumbai and developments surrounding Iran's and North Korea's nuclear ambitions also boosted demand for gold.

Richard Bernstein, chief investment strategist at Merrill Lynch, said in a note to investors that this week's flaring of violence around the world, especially in the Middle East and India, reinforced his expectation that global political instability will only grow in the future.

---(see url for full news, 24-hr newswire)---

GOLD FINGERMORE WARS~#1459557/14/06; 17:36:17




FlatlinerGoldilox#1459567/14/06; 17:49:30

Is it a technical reason or emotional reason why you forsake the forum?

This scratching post, conveniently located and functional to all, adds value not only to the members understanding on a surprisingly difficult topic, but also to the host in the form of providing varied opinions and points of view from non-beneficiaries that helps build confidence for all customers. Hopefully all parties will see value in your participation here and actually encourage it.

Ultimately, best wishes if you have chosen to move on.

TownCrierCentral Bank says no political motive behind forex move#1459577/14/06; 17:56:35

07/14/2006 (UAE)
Dubai: The UAE Central Bank governor has confirmed a strategic decision had been taken to move 10 per cent of its $29 billion foreign exchange reserves into euros, denying, however, that the move was prompted by political motives.

In an interview with the Financial Times, Sultan Bin Nasser Al Suwaidi also predicted that Gulf Arab countries would move from the dollar peg to a floating exchange rate after the introduction of a single currency, which is planned for 2010.

There has been market speculation that the UAE - which produces about 2.5 million barrels of oil a day - would move a limited percentage of its reserves into euros after the March controversy over DP World's takeover of the UK's P&O. The Dubai company was forced to sell off the US operations in the face of political uproar in Washington.

But Al Suwaidi dismissed the "conspiracy theory", insisting the foreign currency shift was a purely economic decision, and followed similar moves in other Gulf countries.

The timing of the decision, he said, was still under discussion...

^---(from url)---^

The euro is favorably mentioned as "an investment currency", and yet there have been voices out of Euroland that have made it clear that they do not want to see the euro experience undue exchange-rate appreciation (as would happen via a flight to euro reserves), generally for the reason of avoiding adverse consequences on international trade competitiveness.

Thus is the reason, ultimately, to gravitate toward use of non-national-currency reserves -- GOLD.


GoldendomeBig Fiat needs bigger Gold prices.#1459587/14/06; 18:03:49

To accommodate in the future, those wishing to leave the mountain ranges of fiat dollars along with all ephemeral currencies, we will need higher prices for gold my friends--much higher! Take an empty cigarette package, stuff it with gold, friends...and you may have a million dollars in your shirt pocket!
TownCrierWhen a market is wrangled, does its price give you no insight to its free value?#1459597/14/06; 18:11:08

HEADLINE: Beirut bourse chiefs slash daily price move limit to 5%

Beirut: Beirut's bourse temporarily cut the daily limits on price moves for listed securities and bonds to 5 per cent up or down, from 10 per cent previously, as the effects of the latest Middle East violence hit the market.

It said in a statement that the measures would be in place for one week.

"Because of the exceptional circumstances that the country is witnessing ... the bourse decided to reduce the daily pricing limits of all shares and bonds to 5 per cent up or down," it said.

Shares in Lebanon's biggest firm Solidere are normally allowed to fluctuate 15 per cent and have seen big losses since Israel began air strikes on Lebanon to retaliate for Hezbollah's capture of two Israeli soldiers on Wednesday.

^---(from url)---^

Back to the subject heading... if the gold metal market has been influenced (lower) by its paper associations for the past century (first by dollar banking supply inflation via the gold standard, then by bullion banking supply inflation via unallocated accounts, derivatives, and lately ETFs), does anyone even have the faintest idea how very much higher gold's value might reside based on its own metallic merits as a truly scarce item of conveniently portable physical property?


Armageddon@Towncrier - Options#1459607/14/06; 18:40:56

I guess from your response you don't want to touch my options questions with a ten foot pole.

My plan is to just spend $50 or so for a "golden" lottery ticket instead of the regular state lottery.

Did you see that football match the other day? Hey, what's that shiny thing just over there...



The Invisible HandPutin's revenge - with my apologies to Socrates#1459617/14/06; 18:53:53
Europeans unsure of Putin's motives
By Quentin Peel
Published: July 14 2006 22:31
Only one in five western Europeans believe Vladimir Putin can be trusted, according to a Financial Times/Harris poll that also showed just 16 per cent of those surveyed would describe Russia as a democracy.
The poll, carried out on the eve of this weekend's summit in St Petersburg of the Group of Eight industrialised nations, shows that Mr Putin has some way to go in persuading western Europeans Russia is a reliable friend.
The survey of more than 500 people in each of five European countries – Britain, France, Germany, Italy and Spain – also showed that 63 per cent felt western Europe was too dependent on Russian oil and gas.
RL : Croyez-vous que Poutine protège l'Iran (en étroite association avec la Chine) des Américains ?
H: L'Iran a un statut d'observateur à l'Organisation de coopération de Shanghai (dont fait aussi partie la Chine) et les bruits ont couru, peu avant le dernier sommet de l'OCS à Shanghai, que Téhéran pourrait en devenir membre à part entière. Cela ne s'est pas fait. Il me semble que le rôle que joue la Russie vis-à-vis de l'Iran permet au Kremlin de prendre une posture subtile, comme intermédiaire, en proposant ses services de médiateur (traitement des déchets iraniens). Elle suggère une voie moyenne et se tient en équilibre sur un fil, en étant en mesure de basculer d'un côté ou de l'autre en fonction de ses intérêts et de l'évolution de la situation.

Question: Do you think Putin protects Iran (in close association with China) from the Americans?
Answer: Iran has observer status in the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, SCO, (of which China is a member). Iran did not become full member at the last Shanghai summit of the SCO. It seems that the role which Russia plays vis-à-vis Iran allows the Kremlin a subtle role as mediator. It suggests that Putin does not want to choose sides for the moment, but this could change at any moment.,,1821093,00.html
"While it is not unusual for flare-ups in Israeli-Arab tensions to cause jitters in the oil market, the latest attacks break new ground, not only by their scope, but also because of the suspected linkage with the Iranian nuclear dispute, raising the threat of broader regional escalation," said Antoine Halff, an analyst at Fimat Energy Research.
Some commentators believe that Russia should not belong to the G8 group of industrialised countries let alone play host of this year's summit in St Petersburg.
One Russian critic of Vladimir Putin interviewed by the BBC pointed to Russia's democratic deficit: the lack of an independent media and judiciary and a pliant legislature.

Can you define democracy?
Seems like everyone has her own definition of democracy?
Should we not better forget the word?

Socrates irritates TOTALITARIANS because he endlessly searches through argument for the reason that lies behind accepted ideas and institutions (Ebenstein and Ebenstein, "Great Political Thinkers", Thomson Wadsworth, 2000, 6th ed., p.20)

Someone will say: Yes, Socrates, but cannot you hold your tongue, and then you may go into a foreign city, and no one will interfere with you? Now I have great difficulty in making you understand my answer to this. For if I tell you that this would be a disobedience to a divine command, and therefore that I cannot hold my tongue, you will not believe that I am serious; and if I say again that the greatest good of man is daily to converse about virtue, and all that concerning which you hear me examining myself and others, and that the life which is unexamined is not worth living - that you are still less likely to believe. And yet what I say is true, although a thing of which it is hard for me to persuade you.
(Plato, Apology)

Armageddon@GoldFinger - WW3 - Nuclear War in Middle East#1459627/14/06; 19:22:50

Perhaps a Nuclear War will Hit in the Middle East.
It seems that the war will spread to Iran and Syria since Hezbolla is backed by Syria and financed by Iran. Both Israel and the Neoconservaties in the Bush Administration want a war with Iran and might use nuclear weapons to win it. Both Israel and the neoconservatives consider Iran to be a threat to Israel's survival. Israel knows that Bush is a solid ally but after the 2006 congressional elections Bush might be in trouble if one or both houses of congress fall into Democrat control. There is an article out by the Associated Press today saying that Republicans might loose control of Congress in the fall election. If Democrats do regain control of Congress then impeachment investigations will start. It is in Israel's interest to nuke Iranian nuclear facilities now while Bush is in office and can support Israel in a war with American ships, planes, and soldiers.

I was wondering what the gold price would be if there is a nuclear war in the Middle East? I think it would definitely be above $1,000 per ounce.




SundeckThis and that...#1459637/14/06; 20:38:43

Ref. Chris Powell #145941 Options

Mmmm...2007 call options up to $2500 in demand...not THAT fantastical in my view, depending on how the world system unfolds (or unwinds, or ...), although I think they may be jumping the gun...I would guess more like 2009.


Ref. Armageddon #145946

Ahhh yes, Sir Armageddon...I too like the odd flutter on a long-shot, now and then...but asking the host and guests on this forum where one might buy call options on gold is a bit like asking god where's a good spot to go and drink with the devil...

Here, gold is sold and options are paper competitors...a lot has been said on this forum over the years about the difference between the two. (Both valid and viable products, mind you, but serving quite different ends.)

Cheers :-)


Ref. rising PoG and PoO

It is impossible to decouple the various "causes" in the markets from "effects" (price variations), but recent events appear to me to provide the clearest signal yet of gold price increases linked to geopolitical tensions and events in specific (gold-sensitive) parts of the world (Mumbai, Palestine, Iran, Iraq). Note how the importance of New York trade has deen steadily diminishing, in terms of major price moves, over the last year or so (Dubai, Shanghai influence?).


Ref: Putin

Putin has added new layers to the term "inscrutable".

It is in his interests to be inscrutable within his challenge of juggling Russian domestic politics (with all its remnant power cliques attempting to sustain themselves, and all the greedy new "free-market" groupings attempting to feather their own nests within a quasi-legal vacuum and expanses of green-field opportunities) with international relations.

Russia, sitting as it does in Asia, borders many countries eye-to-eye, without the luxury of an English Channel, or the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans separating and protecting them from unwanted advances. Like all politicians, Putin has to steer a path that preserves himself in power, which in turn means keeping some people on-side while crushing others; making friends here while losing friends there. The direction taken by Russia in the next several decades will depend more on what is possible rather than what may be desireable.



TownCrierWeekend Gold: Hong Kong still doin' the business...#1459647/14/06; 23:37:20

HEADLINE: Gold price higher in Hong Kong -- July 15

The gold price in Hong Kong rose 35 HK dollar to 6,122 HK dollars per tael on Saturday, according to Bank of China (Hong Kong).

The price is equivalent to 661.81 U.S. dollars a troy ounce, up 4.04 U.S. dollar at Saturday's exchange rate of one U.S. dollar against 7.765 HK dollars.

HEADLINE: Gold price higher in Hong Kong -- July 14

The gold price in Hong Kong rose 90 HK dollar to 6,087 HK dollars per tael on Friday, according to Bank of China (Hong Kong).

The price is equivalent to 657.77 U.S. dollars a troy ounce, up 9.64 U.S. dollar at Friday's exchange rate of one U.S. dollar against 7.768 HK dollars.

^---(from urls)---^

Saturday; shouldn't they be watching cartoons instead of trading(?)... gold slightly stronger against the HK dollar, also the US dollar slightly weaker against the HK dollar.


SundeckThefts spike as copper prices rise#1459657/15/06; 05:51:59


A Greenville man was electrocuted on July 7 as police say he tried to steal copper from a Duke Energy substation. Last weekend, some thieves climbed onto the roof at Cherry Park Centre and took copper linings from air-conditioning units.


Sundeck: First manhole covers, now just about anything made of copper (or other "non-precious" metals) is being lifted and recycled. I suspect "we ain't seen nuthin' yet!"

With gold at $2500 in the near future, copper and zinc and nickel and aluminium etc should be worth a pretty penny too...


UsulSundeck - Copper Theft#1459667/15/06; 06:17:49

It's not about the price- it's the fenceability! It tells of demand so unsatiated that the market is willing to go through black channels to obtain supply, and that means the thieves are able to easily unload what they lay their hands on. And you know what demand exceeding supply leads to!
TitanUh oh -- watch out, Dollar!#1459677/15/06; 07:33:40;jsessionid=UWYG0BEOZD5RTQFIQMFSFGGAVCBQ0IV0?xml=/money/2006/07/14/cnusa14.xml&site=1&page=0

Looks like the cat is out of the bag now! If the Fed itself is saying things like this now, how long can it be before the flight to gold goes through the roof?


"The scenario has serious implications for the dollar. If investors lose confidence in the US's future, and suspect the country may at some point allow inflation to erode away its debts, they may reduce their holdings of US Treasury bonds.

"Prof Kotlikoff said: "The United States has experienced high rates of inflation in the past and appears to be running the same type of fiscal policies that engendered hyperinflations in 20 countries over the past century."

USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.We've put a world of gold at your fingertips...#1459687/15/06; 11:17:19">gold -- a global calling card
TownCrierHow to heat up Africa -- the Putin-Mbeki model#1459697/15/06; 11:48:07


...South Africa intends to "talk tough" at the Group of Eight (G8) summit conference, which runs from Saturday through Monday in St Petersburg... (attending as a member of the five ‘outreach’ countries – South Africa, India, China, Brazil and Mexico)

President Thabo Mbeki has not had much success in catching President Vladimir Putin's attention at their earlier meetings. But Putin is now scheduling his first visit to Africa in September.

Although the visit has been postponed several times before... ...he first African visit of a Russian head of government in almost half a century will be the opportunity...

At this weekend's meetings, Russia is presenting a revolutionary agenda that Mbeki should have every reason to support on South Africa's behalf. This is a Russian new scheme for supplying, consuming and pricing energy – principally oil and gas, but also coal and uranium -- to the world.

Because this is meant to supersede the traditional arrangement for supplying and pricing crude oil through the Organization of Petroleum Exporting States (OPEC), those who benefit most from OPEC, led by the United States, have orchestrated a drumbeat of criticism of the Russian model, calling it an unreliable source of energy, and attacking Putin for using energy exports as a political weapon.

From the Russian point of view, however, the new energy supply model is not negotiable.

Media coverage of the G8 summit agenda, especially the ‘energy security’ priority which Russia has introduced, reflects this fight. The media have been (and will continue to be) a weapon for both sides. [In years past, gold advocates have certainly had plenty of experience witnessing the media put to use as a weapon to play down the metal's importance.]

The emergence of this new strategy has been swift, but clumsy. Countries, international corporations, and their PR and media networks, which supported the OPEC model for Russia in the past are hostile to the new Russian energy strategy because, if it succeeds, it neutralizes the chances of long-term regime change inside the Kremlin.

The OPEC model has been limited to crude oil; the Russian model aims at covering both crude oil and natural gas supply. The OPEC model has been limited to regulating supply and price, according to the swing producer mechanism. Until now, this role has been played by Saudi Arabia, with its global lead in crude oil reserves, and in its flexible capacity to lift, pump to port, and ship. The Russian model aims to supplant the Saudis, emphasizing its global lead in gas reserves, and in barrel of oil equivalent...

From the Russian perspective, the Saudi role and OPEC model have benefited the US, which can pressure Saudi Arabia into opening the spigot to deal with supply emergencies; the US also pressures other oil producers, such as Libya, Iraq, Iran, Venezuela, and Indonesia by military methods, diplomatic, and economic sanctions. In the Russian alternative, the US will be far less influential, and have fewer levers, commercial or military, to effect pressure on the energy suppliers. Russian arms and defence industry partnerships are on offer to relatively weak, intervention-prone energy producers in Africa and Latin America in order to offset US pressure.

In the OPEC model, the benchmark is Brent crude, priced in US dollars. In the Russian model, the discount and disadvantage between the Brent and Urals benchmarks will be reduced, and pricing will evolve toward a currency basket, including the rouble.

In the OPEC model, suppliers hold much of their cash and government securities in US-controlled institutions. In the Russian model, cash is held in the form of a currency basket, conversion from cash is sought into non-US assets, particularly in the European market.

In the OPEC model, investment in new energy reserves should be open to, and may be controlled by, US corporations. In the Russian model, strategic reserves should be controlled by national companies, state controlled champions, or by joint ventures in which Russian interests are in the majority.

In the US-backed OPEC model, national suppliers depend on US-controlled market intermediaries...

The Russian model also extends to energy convertible coal, uranium, and other mineral resources...

The US-backed OPEC model assigns international priority to the Arab states. The Russian model assigns priority to the Central Asian alliance, including China, India, and Iran; secondarily to Latin America (Venezuela, Brazil); and ultimately Africa.

On this fundamental choice between the Russian and OPEC models, Russia is waiting to hear where South Africa stands.

^---(from url)---^

Very much more of this long article is to be found at the link.


TownCrierGold touches Rs 10,000-mark#1459707/15/06; 11:52:34

MUMBAI, JULY 15 (PTI) -- Gold prices today rallied further and once again touched 10-K mark on the bullion market here on sustained buying...

According to market participants, investors preferred to park funds in yellow metal as a safe bet rather than in shares due to meltdown in global stock markets following spiralling crude oil prices and raising the key interest rate by 0.25 basis points from zero by Bank of Japan.

Standard gold (99.5 purity) rose by Rs 60 per 10 gram to close at Rs 10,000 from Rs 9,940 yesterday while Pure gold (99.9 purity) also improved further by Rs 60 to Rs 10,050 from Rs 9,990 previously.

^---(from url)---^

Pick any currency, and you'll find gold enjoying a bull market, in some places even moreso than others.


The Invisible HandGot gold?#1459717/15/06; 19:08:15,,1821241,00.html
Markets rattled as war fears hit oil prices
Heather Stewart, economics correspondent
Sunday July 16, 2006
The Observer
Fears of full-blown war in the Middle East could unleash fresh turbulence on the world's financial markets this week, as investors weigh the impact of record oil prices on the vulnerable US economy.
The oil producers' cartel, Opec, said this weekend that it had 'no control' on the events pushing up prices.,,8209-2271824,00.html
Britain and world set for ‘hard landing’
David Smith, economics editor
July 16, 2006
The Sunday Times
FEARS are growing of a sharp slowdown in the global economy, triggered by big increases in energy prices and rising interest rates. Economists at HSBC say there is a greater risk of a "hard landing" for both the world economy and Britain

SundeckKeep Eyes Fixed on Your Variable-Rate Mortgage #1459727/15/06; 19:16:17


The raising of interest rates on millions of adjustable rate mortgages over the next several years has all the makings of a classic horror story.


It could happen if the price of the house has fallen or if the owner has been making only the minimum payment on a payment-option loan so that the loan balance has actually grown. (It is what the industry calls a negative-amortization loan). The best option then is probably to sell the house and scale back. Homeowners may also want to sell if they can clearly see that there is no way they can make the higher, refinanced payment.

In that case, it is better to act now before a few million other interest-only mortgage holders dump their homes on the market.

Sundeck: An update from the NYT on the home-loan situation in te US of A...


SundeckCatastrophe Bonds#1459737/15/06; 19:43:01

It seems that the big reinsurers, to offset their exposure to major events, are offering "catastrophe bonds" that pay a higher coupon (above about 10%), but with the risk that investors lose their principal if a major "catastrophe" occurs during the specified period of the loan.

Hedge funds and others are snapping these up. Here are a few links:

Now, 10% interest rate might be attractive to some, but I could think of Another kind of catastrophe bond which has had a superior "return" than that in recent years, and for which there is very little risk of losing one's "principal"...


TownCrierGold retains plenty of luster for patient, savvy investors#1459747/16/06; 00:49:57

July 16, 2006 -- It is difficult lately to ignore the luster and significant returns of investments in gold. Morningstar reports a total return for its precious metals category, which includes gold, of 106.37 percent, 43.5 percent and 35.66 percent for the last one-, three- and five-year periods ending April 30.

In the past, investors included gold in portfolios along with stocks and other financial products to dampen overall portfolio volatility. Gold does not move in the same way as financial equity investments. Astute investors are constantly searching for investments whose performance is not correlated with each other in order to smooth out volatility of the portfolio. But there have always been choices other than gold.

Real estate has traditionally made a good choice to produce that same sought-after dampening effect on volatility -- and it still is. However, the real estate market has softened somewhat, sending investors out for other choices, including gold.

By its very nature, commodity investing (of which gold is a part) is more volatile than other types of investment products. Commodities markets usually deal in real, tangible resources -- like gold and pork bellies -- rather than what seems like a more distant and removed stock representing ownership of the physical company.

In bygone years, gold, as a store of value, was a real substitute for money when governments failed and money became devalued. The value of our U.S. dollar was once tied to gold, and our government held gold reserves to back up the paper currency.

Such is not the case any more...

^---(from url)---^

Says who?!

Ho ho ho! The writer of this article (a certified financial planner practitioner, no less(!)) started out OK, but then she fell flat on her face, right there for all the world to see, and became only more fatuous as she rambled on. Tragic.


USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.You are invited to join the NewsGroup#1459757/16/06; 00:54:55">join the newsgroup
CaradocAnother marker#1459767/16/06; 13:10:20

The Telegraph article linked above, "US could be going bankrupt," has little news for those at this table. But the fact that it's linked on Matt Drudge's website says that popular awareness of the plight of the US dollar is spreading.

Three snips from Boston University's Professor Laurence Kotlikoff from research conducted for the Federal Reserve Bank of St Louis:

1. To paraphrase the Oxford English Dictionary, is the United States at the end of its resources, exhausted, stripped bare, destitute, bereft, wanting in property, or wrecked in consequence of failure to pay its creditors.

2. ...the US government is, indeed, bankrupt, insofar as it will be unable to pay its creditors, who, in this context, are current and future generations to whom it has explicitly or implicitly promised future net payments of various kinds.

3. The United States has experienced high rates of inflation in the past and appears to be running the same type of fiscal policies that engendered hyperinflations in 20 countries over the past century.

Calculating the government's longterm fiscal gap (income versus expenses) as "an almost incomprehensible $65.9 trillion," the article presents Professor Kotlikoff's assessment: "This figure is more than five times US GDP and almost twice the size of national wealth. One way to wrap one's head around $65.9 trillion is to ask what fiscal adjustments are needed to eliminate this red hole. The answers are terrifying. One solution is an immediate and permanent doubling of personal and corporate income taxes. Another is an immediate and permanent two-thirds cut in Social Security and Medicare benefits. A third alternative, were it feasible, would be to immediately and permanently cut all federal discretionary spending by 143pc."

Again, what's new here is that anybody who can click a link from Drudge has had at least one warning. As the general population becomes more aware, we can expect some small percentage to begin to do something to protect their wealth.

It could be smart to pick up a few more ounces before they do so. Our host's phone number is in the box at the top of this page: 1 800 869-5115. Add extension 110 if you're only adding those few ounces.


GoldendomeGold on the move again#1459777/16/06; 19:36:19

Looks like limit up in Tokyo.
contrarian"financial planneers"#1459787/16/06; 20:55:08

The stupidity of this article will become undeniably obvious by the end of this year.
TopazMilestone(s) for the Millstone(s)#1459797/17/06; 01:23:21

Ag just crossed A$500/Kg ...and PoG leering at A$900/Oz as I Type!
Go there Spot, you know you want to!

KiloYep, Gold's On The Move Again Alright.........#1459807/17/06; 07:24:49

You folks apparently forgot to knock on wood.
contrarianminus $20#1459817/17/06; 07:34:22

It looks like Paulson et al have been and are hitting it hard with all they've got in the most advantageous early AM, but their efforts are doomed to failure as inexorable events unfold worldwide in the next six months. They and their paper money charletans are a sorry lot!
OvSOn the lighter side.#1459827/17/06; 08:09:43

Just came across this
alleged bumpersticker:

When guns are outlawed,
only vice-presidents
will have guns...Cheers.

OvSMr.Gold#1459837/17/06; 08:25:47

He is off to Tanzania.
Don't envy him. Must
be furiously plugging
holes. Around the world
the Moslems are in re-
bellion and Tanza is a
Moslem country.
And here is our Mr.Gold.
I personally believe him
to be of top-notch quali-
ty and morality and of
empathy for all members
of the human race, but,
his father was Seligmann;
he had a good deal of in-
fluence to get the current
president elected; yet,
more and more countries
are threatening expropri-
ation or at least, huge
increases of their owner-
ship in gold-mines, etc.

Just proves the wise
councel on this website:

A golden chicken in your
hand is better than two
promisory golden chickens
in your neighbors yard...

KiloGold "Price"#1459847/17/06; 09:04:42

I go to bed with 250 Krugerrands in the safety deposit box, I wake up with 250 Krugerrands in the safety deposit box.

I sleep very well, and leave the worrying to the paper folks. ;)

USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.FREE Gold Information Packet...#1459857/17/06; 10:01:17

OvSGold-I-Lox, The Mystery of His vanishing act.#1459867/17/06; 10:20:03

IF: Goldilox's last message was:
(6-29-06, message #: 145680)
"...but our host will happily
"change the color" of you pay-
check to something more tangible
and shiny on a regular basis, if
you give them a call", then how
is it he is missing since then?
Was he ditched or did he ditch
us? Neither makes sense.
Lord Goldilox annoid me many a
times but never to the point of
wanting him to abandon us. His
socialist propaganda was too
transparent to do any harm to
the sheeple. But he dug up quite
a few nuggets and busy he was
indeed. Just what this sometimes
dragging forum needed and needs.
Therefore, come on out of your
closet, Goldilow, so I can give
you a piece of my mind: CB2
resurfaced (predictably) only
once; he couldn't take my giving
him retorts in kind, but I thought
you were of hardier substance.
Ok,ok, I just want to draw you
out...Cheers. OvS

melda laurenuclear chess- gawdawful mess.#1459877/17/06; 10:50:07

Well it's turning into a mexican standoff.

Sir Armageddon, you know if Sir 'Lox were here we might have an amusing discussion on the allegations that Israel (and Russia) have quantum potential weapons as well as scalar Tesla Toys. All of which would leave a certain country inhabited by persians quite out of of their league.

Amusing to watch Israel's UN ambassador virtually begging the UN to clean up the mess in Lebannon: WHO would the UN be sending? Would a passel of white knights (red crosses optional) improve the situation? Or perhaps china could volunteer to clean up this mess? Regardless, the overly hawkinsh comments I have been hearing are either the most idiotic irresponsible drivel, or the beginning of the last act: Smashing the POG is hardly an effective response to WW3, but it is a low risk move compared to launching ICBMs.

Sir OVS, I have a picture (inadvertently shot during an ice cream incident) of the VP's "gun" and it is quite massive, but I will not post a link as this photo has been classified I hear. But speaking of internet censorship, this might be a good time to suggest to our host that he consider setting up a mirror site somewhere else in the world (perhaps a well connected patron might wish to volunteer hosting services), as given the situation, one of these days this forum may become unavailable: either legally or connectively.

This war is ripe to play out on CNN and Bloomberg- the Russians have switched from chess to poker.

OvSThe golden calf.#1459887/17/06; 11:00:25

Yes, indeed, Mssrs.Paulson
and Bernanke, implementing
the Volcker insight: "We
made a mistake letting the
price of gold baloon."
These endlessly recurring
mantra: Imminent collaps
of the US Economy just is
a bit overblown. Over the
years this mantra was re-
gurgitated over and over,
and the bad economic numbers
got worse and worse, but
obviously not worse enough.
The overpowering economic
and military might of the A-A
world and minor adjucts like
Israel, etc. just precludes
such imminent collaps. Rome
did not collaps over night
and neither will Neo-Rome.
(Consider: East Europe joined
NATO--A little break on Putin?)
Especially, since there is
enough evidence that many
CB's around the world are in
agreement with the A-A world
plan and for very selfish
reasons. The US inflationary
scenario is inflating most of
the rest of the globe; anyone
trying to stop that will be
instantly "deflated". Amen.
What gold and silver will do:
Keep up with whatever inflatio-
nary landscape we traverse and
when the exuberance of inflation
becomes deadly, help us to keep
the playmoney for restarting
ventures in the post-globaliza-
tion-mania reality.
Up and away.Cheers. OvS
PS: With so many imponderables, the
metals are still the smartest
way to play, unless you have the
computer savvy of a Goldman Sachs,
and/or the political inside track,
to play the shorterm wiggles.

GOLD FINGERMORE...More....more!!#1459897/17/06; 12:13:47

Get yours today!

Greetings friends,

I bring you tidings of great joy and wonder as I see the shine of GOLD roll forth.

If indeed from what I read....he's late...Newt G-witch? or what ever his name is?? Lets us know the middle east is on the verge of WW3...Well, Newt like they say...NO S*IT..Sherlock!!

I am amused how some people enter the media and try to get with the program again.

Oh, and since I started on a positive note let me finish. You know if the penny is being questioned about cost I can assure you that holding on to a few and including GOLD would be a good bet!!


How's thaty for a "penny" for your thoughts~~

YGMMid East Hoofaraw#1459907/17/06; 14:54:35

When this latest push by these wacko's dies down (and it will shortly IMO) the fodder will be readily available for the next big hammering of Gold prices. Anyone who thinks any of these terrorist groups will push Nations to WW3 is out of touch with reality. China is building economic & military ties with Russia & US. Terrorism is the only world war, now or in future. So called nation states like Iran/N Korea have leaders with verbal diarrea, as did many other tin idol leaders in recent past history. More than one cure for running off at the mouth. You make a threat you either back it up and then the anvil falls on your head or time and internal politics change the leadership. Just ask Sadman Insane and a few other despot leaders whom we've now forgotten. If you asked the average Iranian or N Korean for their secret political desire, you'd have democracy taking over. As always it's about money and China et al ARE changing rapidly with foriegn investment, politics included. The 3rd world wants into the western decadence of the 21st century and that won't go away anytime soon. Play the markets volitilities with one eye open and an ear to the ground. Israel's past wars didn't cause WW3 and neither will this latest conflict, in fact it may serve to further unite nations against the lunatic fringe.
OvSHold on to your seats.#1459917/17/06; 15:45:20

We are not there yet. Wait
until we get 100 dollar-a-
day whiplashes, as James E.
Sinclair predicted a while
Makes you whish to be one
of those nimble trader to
take care of these great
money-making trades, but,
unfortunately, those traders
I knew way back then, the
hotshots, were driving taxis
after doing those great trades
in the late sixties.
Easy does it. One step forward,
and then two backward. Scratch.
I ment, one step backwards and
then two forwards. :-) Cheers.

USAGOLD Daily Market ReportPage Update!#1459927/17/06; 18:38:53">
The Daily Gold Market Report has been updated.

If you are considering investments in gold we invite you to">request our free introductory information packet detailing the products and services offered by USAGOLD ~ Centennial Precious Metals. We welcome your inquiry and look forward to working with you.

MONDAY Market Excerpts

Gold slips, traders take profit on recent run-up

July 17 (from MarketWatch) -- Gold futures dropped Monday, pressured by the rallying dollar, but with violence between Israel and Lebanon continuing to claim lives and wreak destruction, safe-haven demand for the precious metal is likely to remain strong.

August contracts closed down $16.10 at $651.90 on the New York Mercantile Exchange. The metal pulled back sharply from last week's gains, which were driven by fighting in the Middle East, deadly train bombings in India and the defiance of Iran and North Korea in the face of western efforts to contain their nuclear programs.

"Hefty profit-taking has hit the precious metals [...] as the dollar marched higher while oil prices paused," said James Moore of TheBullionDesk.

"Rumors of an early halt to Israel's offensive have also led to a slight reduction in gold's safe-haven premium," Moore said. He added that the risk of a further escalation in the Middle East "remains very real" and that this could "easily" trigger another rally on the order of $20 to $50 an ounce.

The dollar rebounded to a three-month high against the yen and to nearly a three-week high against the euro, as traders flocked to buy the U.S. currency as a hedge against global political instability.

"You're seeing the dollar rallying in a flight to safety, which surprises me a little," said Charles Nedoss, gold analyst at Peak Trading Group.

"Crude's down, which is also very surprising." Crude oil, which closed at an unprecedented high on Friday, closed down $1.73, or 2.3%, at $75.30 a barrel.

"Gold is overbought for the very near term and some consolidation can be expected," said Peter Grandich, editor of The Grandich Letter. "However, the numerous worldwide geopolitical concerns and a continuing bullish supply versus demand scenario should bring new highs by fall."

Brien Lundin, editor of Gold Newsletter, said that the long-term bull market in gold remains very strong.

"Spreading weakness in the equity and real-estate markets make it virtually impossible for the Fed to continue its rate hike campaign much longer, if at all," Lundin said in a weekend note to investors.

"This will soon become one of the most important factors supporting gold, and its emergence as a reliable trend will lift the mining stock sector as well."

---(see url for full news, 24-hr newswire)---

TownCrierGold falls as profit takers put brakes on#1459937/17/06; 18:55:03

(FT) July 17 2006 -- Precious metals prices fell on Monday as investors took profits, prompted by the growth of flows into less risky dollar-denominated assets such as Treasuries, which bolstered the US currency.

The dollar gained across the board, while US Treasury prices gained and yields fell as escalating violence in the Middle East drove investors away from the risk of emerging markets.

"The forces dominating the gold market at present have also proved to be important factors behind the recent safe-haven-induced pullback in the dollar," said Barclays Capital in a research note.

"Therefore, as long as the geopolitical climate continues to deteriorate and inflation fears remain elevated, both gold and the dollar are likely to have some further upside," it added.

Spot gold rose to a two-month high at $672.90 an ounce in early trade, before profit-takers put the brakes on.

"Gold will take its cue primarily from the US dollar," said James Steel at HSBC.

"An end to the current period of dollar strength will, in our opinion, signal the resumption of the gold rally."

Nymex West Texas Intermediate for August delivery fell $1.38 to $75.65 a barrel by midday in New York, having hit a record $78.40 a barrel on Friday. But few expected anything other than a brief respite before prices begin heading to fresh highs.

"The short-term factors are bullish," said Deborah White at Société Générale, pointing to geopolitics, the burgeoning US hurricane season, refining tightness and the rebound in Chinese imports.

^---(from url)---^

Geopolitical turmoil causing waves of idle money to cast about, much into the dollar harbor out of habit and convenience. Any port in a storm, eh?


TownCrierIt's all relative, dependant upon through what lens you look...#1459947/17/06; 19:07:08

HEADLINE: Rupee dips to record closing low

MUMBAI: The [Indian] rupee on Monday tumbled to a new record closing low of 46.75/76 against the U.S. currency, pulled down by fresh negative developments ... the rupee came under severe pressure in the latter part of the day, fuelled by the news of an earthquake in the Indian Ocean and a subsequent Tsunami warning for Indonesia and Australia.

^---(from url)---^

Even as gold looks saggy today through our personal dollar lens, a weakening rupee ensures that gold remains bouyant in appearance within the country which plays host to gold's most ardent adherants.

There's a lesson in there somewhere, if you can find it.


GonlyoldGold Price#1459957/17/06; 21:37:01

Kilo said, "I go to bed with 250 Krugerrands in the safety deposit box, I wake up with 250 Krugerrands in the safety deposit box.

I sleep very well..."

If that safety deposit box is in a bank, you may have a false sense of security. Just a thought. Take care.

SundeckChina growth hits 10-yr high#1459967/18/06; 00:07:29,22049,19829237-5001024,00.html


CHINA'S economy expanded at its fastest pace in a decade with growth of 11.3 per cent in the second quarter, official data showed today, exceeding expectations.


Sundeck: China's economy still going gangbusters...

The question in my mind is how vulnerable it is to a slump in retail spending in the USA?

Presumeably retail spending (domestic consumption) in China is growing and the plan is, eventually, to replace, or offset, an export-lead economy by one with greater domestic demand. If exports to the US fall-off, then China must either replace them with other export destinations, consume more at home or else go through a (nasty) period of industrial reconfiguration (recession). Such a readjustment will probably effect every other country in the world...the more-so if it happens suddenly.

As I see it, it would be in the interests of few countries to have the US dollar decline suddenly, or to have a precipitous decline in US retail spending brought about by that or any other reaason...

In this context (keeping the ship steady and level), Newt Gingrich's "WWIII" comments are probably a bit over-the-top... and a tad irresponsible from one with a relatively high political profile...

Also, it's hard to see N Korea having many (or any??) friends if it keeps pursueing its missile-based brinksmanship...neither China, nor Japan, nor the USA nor Taiwan, nor S Korea, nore anyone else, want these louts running around the region, blowing-up peoples letter-boxes with their bang-bangs in the name of a glorious leader...


melda lauremexican standoff part deux.#1459977/18/06; 01:32:04

There is far too much testosterone in the air, I need a good couple of hours of moonlight to clear it out.

You will notice that the so called WW3 is only between the USA and these tin-pot dictators. Mr Gingrich seems to aggree and Mr Nyquists latest also seems to suggest we are overly preoccupied with the chihuahua nipping at our heels wanting a full on alley brawl with "comrade wolf".

Yet, it is absurd. Nobody will ever start a war with quantum potential weapons. The age of sovereign nations is largely over, I fear, that or something very much like it, in spite of the obvious frictions. This chess game, or poker game, (regardless of the table banging and acrimony) will not end with six-guns: the giants will not permit it.

In a sense, Mr Gingrich's "warmongering" comments are not directed to the US public. Rather this interventionist theme is directed to the giants (or their g8 proxies) who would have to approve the take down of NK, Tehran, or whomever they deem to have become unmanageable. To paraphrase mr greenspan "we looked into the abyss and in order to prevent a wider fire-sale of assets the Fed orchestrated an orderly unwinding of LTCM." Substitute the Giants for the FEd and the tin-horn dictators for LTCM.

Martin Weiss's comments suggest the same: WW3 will be fought with conventional weapons... perhaps only with nasty telephone calls if we are lucky. To the extent diplomacy fails, it only accelerates the roll out of freegold.

It is only a theory. I could well be in error: the racist depopulation of undesireables is still a strategy on the table I fear. The real tsunami's are yet to come, paper is no substitute for a well stocked hobbit hole.

SundeckWhy the Gulf countries continue to embrace the doomed dollar #1459987/18/06; 04:32:06


To grasp what is going on with the dollar, one has to look at it as a world currency that is fuelling global commerce, not as the currency of an isolated nation-state. Since its beginning in the 16th century, capitalism has always had a hegemonic power that has acted as the central banker of the world and has supplied it with the liquidity it has needed. First this was the Spaniards, then it was the Dutch, and next it was the British, once they rid themselves of Napoleon. The demise of the British pound began with World War I, and after World War II, the dollar finally took over within the framework of the Bretton Woods system. At that time, the US was by far the biggest oil producer in the world, and accounted for more than 50 percent of global industrial production. Aside from the military might of a superpower, the dollar was backed by US current account surpluses and by gold. Today, only military might is left. Since 1971, the US has essentially been paying for its imports with printed paper, without a need to export goods and earn foreign currency or gold to pay for this. No other nation has this privilege.

Sundeck: You want to play in "Casino Globale"?

Well first you must exchange your cash for the house tokens...the US dollar. And...also...if you make a profit, you must re-invest that in the issued stock and bonds of the house...that way the cake gets bigger and bigger and everyone can continue gorging themseles to their hearts content...

Wonder who is gonna throw-up first? Or are all the gamers going to collude to close down gay old Casino Globale and open a flash new joint...bigger and brighter, with new games and multiple chip options and reinvestment schemes?

Doesn't sound too difficult when put that way... But who would assume the role of "The Bank"???

Roll over J Maynard Keynes...we're not out of the B. Woods yet...


TopazCan ya feel da love!!#1459997/18/06; 04:43:34

If ever theres a time to try and re-create a PoG/Dollar relationship it's mid-off delivery month for Gold.

Our Chart ID's a strong rebound in PoG and all but the brave would've expected it to continue on-trend ...but no, we see the PoG reverting to it's papery mean.

sageHow long will the madness continue?#1460007/18/06; 09:55:46

Good Day everyone, I have been a long time lurker here and can quietly say that I have gained over the last 5 years more knowledge on economics than, I could have in any school. My thanks to the host. I have quietly been buying Gold and Silver and waiting, but I must say my frustration is at a boiling point. I do not believe the market place for Gold and silver is any more than a rich mans manipulation and it defies all economic reality. There is no reason for the drop in prices this week other then intentfull manipulation on someone's part and I am completely frustrated. I sit and hold and wait while this seems to never end. When in the name of GOD is this going to stop? I do not posses enough of either PM in sufficient quantities as I do not make that much money, but I hold out for the day and frankly the day seems to be never going to materialize. This might just be a child like tantrum I am throwing, maybe because it is hot enough outside right now to pop corn. I thought we were on to something when it took of in May and then go crushed to climb back only to get punch down again. This investment is certainly not for the weak.
Titan@ sage#1460017/18/06; 10:56:40

You're certainly not alone in feeling the way you do!

Can anyone point to a resource (or resources) on the Web that offer any further explanations as to what is currently going on? I would really like to understand more than "it's manipulation"... why now, and by whom.

Other than the present forum, GATA ( seems to be one good spot for informed commentary. Others? [NOTE: I am not asking for anyone to talk about CPM's competitors. I just want to know if there are any other good discussion boards that may be a little more active than this one. I came in today expecting/hoping to find someone positing at least an idea as to why we are seeing the squashing of the POG today, when events in the news would seem to defy the downward slide we're observing. And it looks like hardly anyone here has noticed--or at least wants to talk about it. I do like the long-range perspective found in this forum, but it would be comforting to have a *little* chat amongst ourselves about this bizarre situation!]

ArmageddonReason for Gold Price Action#1460027/18/06; 11:36:16

I just noticed that the the graph pattern for stocks roughly mimics that patern for the gold price today. One reason for this selloff besides manipulation could be that traders that are loosing money in non-gold stocks on the Dow are selling some of their winning bets like gold to cover the margin calls. I think most of the action in gold and stocks are from full time professional traders that also trade on margin and when they get those margin calls they must get the money from somewhere.
Survivor@Titan, Sage: PM Prices and Manipulation#1460037/18/06; 11:55:10

It takes a while to get a feel for the pressures that apply to PM prices. This is because no one is advertising their activity in the area of price manipulation. The picture is clouded further because natural market forces are also in play. In addition, the biggest gold trades take place far from the public eye.

That said, the manipulation subject has been covered repeatedly and continuously on this forum - to the point where many here take the subject for granted. As such, I think we do not react very much to 3-4% price swings anymore.

For more information, look into the archives and gold news pages on this site. Also, search out the commentary that is available on sites that publish such material. There is a great deal of information out there. Much of it constitutes well-informed opinion; some of the rest, not so much. It is up to the reader to decide.

Every day of gold ownership is a good day... some days are better than others, of course.

- Survivor

FlatlinerJust go shopping (for gold)#1460047/18/06; 12:08:48

I still can't help but think back to the words of Another at times like this. If gold doesn't trade at or near the cost of production, Oil producers will not take Fiat for oil. Then, when thinking about gold as a political metal, you can't help but watch as the ants snatch the stuff up! When that happens, the price is bid up which breaks the oil/gold/US fiat connection.

Ultimately, I see this volatility as a struggle between maintaining the current system and giving up. Remember that physical gold holders buy this stuff as insurance against inflation and loss of confidence in a currency (Look at the people in Iran converting into gold as fast as they can). They will not convert back until they find another fiat that's stable and worth holding. Meanwhile, this drives up the price and threatens what actually backs the currency – oil. Thus, if the big dogs take a loss in the gold market in order to remove the escape to safety, it maintains the system and the economy stays together.

Thus, IMHO, expect these holy-moly down days and treat them as a buying opportunity. Look over the last few years and see how far gold as come. Look ahead five years and see the social obligations that yesterworld has signed up for and figure out where the currency is going to come from. The old will vote themselves a pay increase virtually guaranteeing an inflationary environment for years to come. In a few years when gold trades for thousands an ounce, say 5,000, a 3% day will be 150 bucks. Thus, a few days movement of 7 or 8% will be in the range of 350 to 400 bucks. A slow day will see 50 dollar fluctuations.

Gold is *much more valuable* then the price in US dollars shows. I would be willing to bet that when you look back, you will see that today's price, although it appears high, is a great bargain.

specie-manBill to kill penny has ominous provision ...#1460057/18/06; 12:19:59

From article:
"[the bill] also calls for organizational changes: Oversight of the U.S. Mint and the Bureau of Engraving and Printing would be transferred from the Department of the Treasury to the Federal Reserve Board. Kolbe's office maintains that since the Federal Reserve is in charge of the dollar, moving the currency under the Federal Reserve would remove a layer of bureaucracy."

This little-noticed provision is flying under the radar screen while everyone focuses on the possible demise of the one-cent coin.

If the US Mint is taken away from the US Treasury, what's left in the Treasury ? Pretty much just BATF. Note that the US Mint is responsible for all the US Gold reserves. And now some people want to hand them over to the Federal Reserve.

GOLD FINGERThe ride has just started~#1460067/18/06; 12:25:43

It has been my long time contention that you can studied graphs and look at Gold charts and still come up with out any answers. Just when it should be up's down and then when it should be down it's up!

Babe, hold on to your hat.

My personal GOLD intuition is like a roller coaster ride. You have extreme feelings all the way as your going up and down and around and even getting wet at times.~ But, when the end is near and your almost finished you feel a great relief and almost a peace inside.

YOU MADE IT! The ride is over and ALL IS WELL!

GOLD, to me is a very emotional metal. It seems to hold and provoke feelings and or encompasses emotions. It offers many an abundance of feelings such as security,frustration, promise,wealth, and even some who think it's worthless! For me this is the very reason to hold on to it.

Keep it and ENJOY it.

I guess when it needs to act like a toy you may be in for a ride.....otherwise, just feel PROUD you have some! I DO!!

Buy Buy~

Thoreauly@ sage#1460077/18/06; 12:36:45

For what it's worth, while the POG's present performance is bewildering, I continue to focus on the fundamentals, secure in the knowledge that gold's return to its rightful place in the scheme of things is a matter of when, not if.

Whether that's five days or five years from now is not the point. Rather, the point is that whatever transpires in the meantime, the future can arrive no later than 18 months from now, when 76 million Baby Boomers begin retiring and the American welfare state starts bursting at its seams.

Be patient and buy the dips.

TownCrierSundeck, on "Casino Globale" (msg#: 145998)#1460087/18/06; 12:48:42

"Well first you must exchange your cash for the house tokens...the US dollar. And...also...if you make a profit, you must re-invest that in the issued stock and bonds of the house...that way the cake gets bigger and bigger and everyone can continue gorging themseles to their hearts content...

Wonder who is gonna..."


Great post, thanks!


TownCrierTitan, sage, price actions#1460097/18/06; 13:30:55

Have a look at the 1-year chart, second one down on the left.

You'll see that the most recent little run-up in gold prices has been quite nearly as profoundly steep (although not quite as long) as the previous price surge experienced in May.

You've got to take a deep breath and take a step back to try to consider some of the investors actions occurring outside of your immediate purview.

Consider all of the fresh young punters that have drawn into the commodities futures markers by the price trend (and the news) of the past couple years, and most recent months, and even weeks.

As these chasers of a fast-and-easy buck add their wee bit of speculative froth atop the core futures positions already in place, thus propelling these little surges in the current gold market's papery futures/derivative-based price-discovery mechanism, the various heavyweights and financial powers (including those few participants who've actually planted their speculative seeds with most fortunate timing to watch fat profits grow ripe for reaping) view the whole scene as a casual matter-of-course to skim off this frothy cream.

Thus the structure of the present system, meaning as "everyone has come to know it" for the past few decades, is maintained moderately within its familiar appearance and character, sending the strongest possible signals to everyone on the sidelines, "There is no need to panic," -- irregardless of the actual (non)truthfulness of that message.

So, having tested the diversification waters and found them to be too hot and too shark-invested (owing mostly to their choice to swim on Leverage Beach), the freshly burned newbies go yowling for the sidelines, and swear subconsciously not to re-enter again anytime soon -- thus further preserving the STATUS QUO of the present dollar-centric system.


It wouldn't have had to be such a terrifying or financially damaging experience had they simply came on down to the cool wading waters of the Physical Lagoon, where lots of folks, innocent and wise as children, are scooping up as many gold coins as cheaply and abundantly as their grasps will allow.

The professional staff at USAGOLD-Centennial has been helping folks fill their pockets with precious shiny yellow coins for over 33 years. Why not call them today? TOLL FREE 1-800-869-5115


Flatliner@ Bill to kill penny has ominous provision ...#1460107/18/06; 13:41:55

Snip: The bill also calls for organizational changes: Oversight of the U.S. Mint and the Bureau of Engraving and Printing would be transferred from the Department of the Treasury to the Federal Reserve Board. Kolbe's office maintains that since the Federal Reserve is in charge of the dollar, moving the currency under the Federal Reserve would remove a layer of bureaucracy.

Others don't see the wisdom in the proposed move. "Sure, you're taking bureaucracy away from the Treasury but you're adding it to the Federal Reserve," said Todd. "Where do you get the efficiency?" EndSnip

Flatliner – I wonder if Todd holds shares in the Federal Reserve. It's pretty clear that US citizens do not. One has to wonder about the distinction between ‘the dollar’ and ‘the currency’ in the above statement. It's always interesting when the obvious turns out to not longer be the logical conclusion that one may make.

If Goldilox were around, he might bring up – who owns the Fed? And then the picture would be clear for all to see.

TownCrierA-Team mentality and performance vs. D-team behavior#1460117/18/06; 13:51:48

A general observation:

Mentalities. What a spectrum we offer!

When the price of GASOLINE at the pumps takes a dip, the A-Team is there, smiling and filling up their fueltanks, receiving friendly waves and greetings from the D-team who is also there at the adjacent pumps, happily filling up their fueltanks, too.

Compare this scene to when the price of GOLD takes a dip. As with the first example, the A-Team is there, on the phones with their broker at USAGOLD-Centennial, having a nice conversation and happily using the cheap opportunity to endeavor further toward filling up their vaults.

Whereas the D-team is nowhere near their phones when the gold price has fallen -- sitting instead on the couch with arms folded across their chest and pouting, sometimes wondering why the world has conspired against them.

The A-Team takes the gift in stride, enjoyings full marks for consistency of mentality and performance.

The D-team muddles through.


The CoinGuyTypical words of Wisdom Townie...#1460127/18/06; 13:56:17

What some consider a curse...other's consider a gift.

This bird has a death grip on his worm...

The CoinGuy

Ag-geek@Flatliner - Bill to kill panny#1460137/18/06; 14:09:11

FL, I finally got a hold of "The Creature From Jekyll Island" (recommended by J-Bullion)and even though I'm only half way through it, I wouldn't want the Fed any where near the Treasury or the Bureau of Printing and Engraving!!! They do enough damage as it is.

Have a golden day!

Flatliner@ The Creature#1460147/18/06; 15:25:55

Ah, be fearful of that one. I believe that the conversations in this forum have more meaning after surviving that ugly tail. You will never look at inflation the same way once you understand why it is that we must have it.

We will be here when you get done to help with your self reconstruction! It is only for the brave to take that story on alone.

Black BladeKill The Penny?#1460157/18/06; 15:46:50

Some old timers might remember when "Plastic" was used to make "tax mill" tokens. Of course there's only benighn inflation according to the clowns at the Fed and BLS right? LMAO.

On an aside, a recent poll showed that most Americans opposed getting rid of the penny. "Killing the penny" would be an embarassing admission for the BLS and the US government in general after years of touting "benign inflation" and other such nonsense. "Killing a few politicians" at the ballot box may be more appropriate of course. The BS pile at the Fed and BLS is so high you need wings to keep above it. ;)

- Black Blade

melda laurePlease, Mr Paulsen, try harder, I haven't got enough to be a respectable elven king yet.#1460167/18/06; 16:09:57

Sir Titan, worldwide market intervention. It is not just POG that is being smacked down. Yesterday for the first day we saw the markets propped up, oil spanked, and the dollar index barely budged (certainly not anywhere near the inverse of POG's move.)

It also helps that having completed a more than generous 50% retracement that POG might be a bit jittery and ripe for a good spanking. However, unless you have access to the tick-by-tick volume on crimex and other such places it is hard to see the action. It is further interesting to note the general lack of coverage of POG's correction, perhaps there is some fear here that this correction was bought at a high price.

The back-alley-mugging details you seek will be aired in a few days if not sooner. This bounce to the low 600's will not last long, we are approaching the day when only a total ban on physical sales will hide the mess (as was done with M3).

Flatliner@melda laure#1460177/18/06; 16:26:30

Do you mean – only a total ban on physical delivery will hide the mess? It seems that this may be a course of action by the current players. That is, if oil doesn't stand up and ask for gold currency rather then US currency for trades.

At the same time, if physical trading disappears, there will be a mess with mining and exploration. It will be interesting to see how that plays out. I would expect supplies to tighten up even more in this case.

The time seems good to acquire gold currency. It seems to be standing on it's own as it plays amongst the fiats.

osa104csay Y O U #1460187/18/06; 16:28:07

I know there's a pony in here somewhere.........AMF
spikedogThe Creature - Flatliner#1460197/18/06; 17:14:43

Question: when you say that "we must have inflation" do you mean:

A) now that we have the FED we must have inflation
B) we must have inflation so we created the FED

I get A, and I suppose B if one looks at the insatiable appetite of government spending.

Your thoughts appreciated.


USAGOLD Daily Market ReportPage Update!#1460207/18/06; 17:58:24">
The Daily Gold Market Report has been updated.

If you are considering investments in gold we invite you to">request our free introductory information packet detailing the products and services offered by USAGOLD ~ Centennial Precious Metals. We welcome your inquiry and look forward to working with you.

TUESDAY Market Excerpts

July 18 (from MarketWatch) -- Gold futures closed sharply lower Tuesday, extending their prior-session losses as investors, torn between worry about the turmoil in the Middle East and the state of global growth, locked in recent gains.

August contracts ended down $22.40 at $629.50 on the New York Mercantile Exchange.

Trading has been very volatile over the last two weeks with big price swings in both directions. Last week, for example, gold gained more than 5% as safe-haven demand was fuelled by fighting in the Middle East, deadly train bombings in India and the defiance of Iran and North Korea in the face of western efforts to contain their nuclear programs.

"This [the decline in gold prices] really started yesterday and it was mostly technical in nature," said David Meger, managing director at Alaron Metals Services.

Over the last two weeks, the market has been absorbing information about Iran, North Korea, and Israel, Meger said. On Monday, a correction began from a "very technically overbought condition," leading to profit-taking and long liquidation, Meger said.

"This correction will lead to a nice buying opportunity further down the road," he said.

Charles Nedoss, senior account manager at Peak Trading Group in Chicago, agreed that Tuesday's drop in gold prices largely resulted from profit-taking.

"We're in unprecedented times in terms of volatility," Nedoss said. He added that gold might drop a further $10 by the end of the week, especially if the soft trade in crude oil continues.

Overnight, Israel continued to bomb southern Lebanon and Hezbollah continued to fire rockets into northern Israel.

Since the conflict broke out last week, more than 200 Lebanese citizens and 24 Israelis have died, the BBC reported.

An Israeli general said that Israel's offensive would continue for another few weeks, and that the deployment of large numbers of ground forces had not been ruled out, The New York Times reported Tuesday.

Geopolitics and Derivatives

(from DowJones) -- While the conflict in the Middle East is a "tragedy," the developments have been fully factored in by the metals markets, related Jim Steel, senior vice president and metals analyst with HSBC.

Gold has been running up for a few weeks now, with the move accelerating late last week and Monday to a seven-week high of $677.50. Bernard Hunter, director of precious metals with Scotia Mocatta, commented that the precious metals are pulling back now that traders have a "better understanding" of the extent of the fighting in the Middle East than was the case going into the weekend.

"There was some fear over the weekend that the situation could deteriorate rapidly and bring in Syria or Iran," he said.

"The (gold) market rallied very, very quickly (to Monday's seven-week high)," said Hunter.

"Obviously, there was a lot of uncertainty over the weekend with respect to events in the Middle East. But the markets really got ahead of themselves."

Hunter and Steel both reported that sell stops were triggered.

Traders are also taking notice of options expiration next week, which can add supply to the futures, since options become futures contracts, explained George Gero, vice president with RBC Capital Markets Global Futures.

"Now we're decidedly below $650. There was a concentration of $650 calls, which could be abandoned," he explained.

(from Reuters) -- Gold tumbled late on Tuesday as ... speculation about another U.S. interest rate increase by the Federal Reserve to head off inflation, analysts said.

The U.S. government said producer prices rose a steeper-than-expected 0.5 percent last month as food prices jumped.

Economists said that while the June increase in the producer price index was troubling, its significance for Fed policy would pale in comparison with the consumer price index for the month to be released on Wednesday.

---(see url for full news, 24-hr newswire)---

Flatliner@spikedog#1460217/18/06; 18:15:27

I guess I see it as:

C) A debt based monetary system requires the creation of currency to service debt.

All currencies act the same way, thus I don't see the FED in the option.

The Jekyll teaches us that if you go to the bank and take out a loan, for say 100 bucks @5% interest, and you go to pay it off at the end of the year, you will have to pay the bank 105 to close the deal. Here, the loan created 100 of the dollars and the economy provided the other 5 (probably through hard work). The most interesting thing here is that 5 bucks had to come out of the economy to pay the loan. Or, it had to come from someone else's loan but in the end (if you follow all the loans to infinity) you'll find that someone had to provide something at the very end. I believe the argument in the book is that when you build a debt based currency system like this, it requires that someone come up with the currency needed to service the loans. That someone, would logically be the government and we call it taxation through inflation.

At the same time, I don't think the problem is really that simple. The economy has a huge amount of currency sloshing around just about everywhere and running 5 bucks through a new loan may not really be a big deal.

I'm sure that if the world worked off of an asset based currency system, it would require the creation of new assets in order to ‘inflate’ the currency supply. And, well, you and I both know that the governments of the world don't create things, thus they would lose that inflation taxation that's so nice to have.

From this thinking, I've come to the (current) understanding that our currency system (debt based system) require that the printers of the currency continually print new money in order for it to be available to service debt. If not, people will default on their loans and banks do not like that.

GoldendomeDeclining gold means that risks are falling, Right?#1460227/18/06; 18:28:42

Whoa! This situation in the Mid-East is sure working out well for the dollar thus far, wouldn't you say? Seems like it's up about 300 basis points in a week! Really a serious rally by the reserve currency, showing all doubters which currency the weak at heart run to in time of crisis...

Gold and Oil were doing well until everyone decided that perhaps this wasn't teotwawki(the end of the world as we know it). No this is just a little localized dust up...a few locals trying out their new weapons to gauge effectiveness and measure their opponents. The big principals are content to stand back--watch--and hold the coats. The sheriff in the region there, is just going to let his deputy beat the crud out of the local bad guys that started the fight to begin with...Fine and good... Just let the boys blow off some steam, knock down a few buildings, turn some locals under, and re-establish--who's not to be messed with!

Gold and Oil were anticipating a real bar-room brawl where the entire neighborhood would take up arms against the "law"...Everyone getting in a few licks, with the possibility that the whole place, blow up! Not so, thus far.

Right now, the sheriff is holding everyone's currency safe in the dollar. Why, we're not even aware of inflation...nor deficits...nor account balances. Why, even that skirmish to the East has faded from the front page, though hundreds seem to be killed there daily now.

No--right now, this little dust up is working out just fine for everyone. The public attention is diverted away from the windows and doors where other "bad" things may be going on. Heck, soon, North Korea will probably have to send up a couple of more sky-rockets as distress signals, just to get attention.

It is not in the interest of any of the major parties looking on, to wish an escalation of this skirmish. But wars (like brush fires) can start from random, careless, imprudent acts. In frustration, a careless smoker- outside the control of either side in the skirmish, might just decide in ignorance, to throw a lighted smoke in the direction of the fuel. Be ready to duck.

melda laure(No Subject)#1460237/18/06; 18:43:40

"Do you mean – only a total ban on physical delivery will hide the mess?"

No sir, in all honesty I meant a total ban on free markets. Or if you like, instead of beating up on paper gold holders, the spankings would next extend to holders of comex receipts and wholesale dealers in gold, that is to say, a switch from suppression, to repression and overt oppression.

I think Sir Goldendome has it about right: we've taken a raincheck on the bar-room brawl. The patrons are placing bets on the outcome, not reaching for their six-guns. Your regularly scheduled inflation will now continue.

Flatliner@spikedog and the golden angle#1460247/18/06; 19:04:28

And it turns out this printing over all these years has created a huge savings glut! Trillions exist in the different markets waiting to be spent. That's right, all these years people have been squirreling away currency in one investment or another waiting for the day that they can start cashing in. What's going to happen when all these people start spending their savings?

The stock market will dry up. Why? From the simple idea that in order to drive market value up, people have to buy stocks. There has to be more buyers then sellers. Thus, one would expect that the stock market will NOT have the same type of support that it's had for 20+ years. Even if the PPT steps in for 10-20 years they will just make all that cash available to be spent (driving inflation higher) by supporting these prices.

Also, during that 20+ years, people were willing to play the stock market game because everyone was doing it which added more upward push to the market then inflation took out from under it. In other words, if inflation ran at 8% and returns came in at 15%, playing the market netted paper profit. But now, we're at the time in the baby boomers lives when they will want to capitalize on their profits.

Logic has it that there will be more sellers then buyers for many years to come. That reasoning makes me question if the market will create returns that will exceed the rate of inflation. For a few years, it has not.

When savings rates do not exceed the rate of inflation, you switch to investing in inflation – it has a better rate or return! In other words, if stocks sit flat (0% return) and bonds give 5% but inflation is running at a realistic 8-10% all these investments that baby boomers have made over the years are in a net loss position. Every year that they hold the investments, they lose a little more. In the end, they get taxed on the losing deal. It's an unhappy future.

Gold, on the other hand, seems to be in a roll right now because it's beating all the other types of investments that have been the prize sources for savings over the last 20+ years. Many people know this and they are moving to take advantage of it. Those that are trapped in their paper investments will find that using stocks (and all paper) as a form of savings will … lose over time.

Gold is a relatively fixed asset that is attracting smart currency. Those that hold gold in the coming years will have support in their savings. Those that hold paper will not.

So, the currency that has been printed and used to service debt has been saved in paper investments where the people that have saved it are coming to withdraw their savings. Gold really looks good right now!

FlaccusTitan and spiritual brothers#1460257/18/06; 19:11:33

Learn that eveything pulses.



Even markets.

Forget the nonsense. Market manipulation. The rest. Learn the connections with Nature.

It is a process.

Once the Nature of a thing (or processed) is assumed, it will lead to understandings both comforting and instructive.

It will also lead you to gold.

Why would you want gold to rigidly adhere to some straight line residing in your fancy?

To do that would be to deny the natural order of things.

Think about it. If that's what you really want, you are no better than the socialists who believe they control human economics, politics and destiny.

Flatliner@melda laure#1460267/18/06; 19:17:34

It may be a definition at the root of the problem.

At this point, I don't see a total ban on free markets. I would see a ban on public markets, but only in a default situation.

I see through the action of the big players that they are creating more gold derivative products specifically designed to capture speculation capital that would flow into physical gold currency. If those that manage the gold price can deter enough capital, they can keep the physical price down and keep the world supplied in the metal. As long as the world is supplied in metal, oil will back fiat currency.

If the gold markets close, we will most likely witness gold trading as a currency again. When it does, those that hold the currency will find that demand will go through the roof for it!

spikedogFlatliner - thank you and some thoughts#1460277/18/06; 19:33:46

Thank you for your insightful responses and your usual "fleshing out of the details".

Whether we are dealing with an asset based system or a debt based system we have inflation:
A) asset based - naturally restricted by the amount of new gold mined every year (or new stone wheels carved)
B) debt based - unrestricted except for the integrity of the banker.....

However, in an asset based system, the same problems of banks lending out more certificates than they had gold to back it up was still an issue.

Considering the Jekyll, if the bankers do not lend out money at rates higher than production of new gold - inflation should be a wash.

The only difference between the respective systems is that the power to abuse the money supply is now centralized (the FED) under the debt based system. So, by this twisted logic, socialism works out great for banks!?!?

Am I being naive here? Good thing I understand gold (its pretty too)


GoldendomeFlatliner-- What's keeping the indexes up?#1460287/18/06; 20:22:27

I am convinced it is the 401k money from the paychecks of the hard working citizens of the USA that has kept the Dow, Nas, and S&P levitating for the past six years, and the Dow recently approaching 11,000... an unending conveyor belt of cash keeping the Titanic afloat, while the big smart money unencumbered by such straitjackets and lures has moved on to greener pastures.

Such is the legacy of our brilliant financial rulers.
One of the most egregious of scams.

Many plans are so inflexible that few funds are offered and most of the funds offered have the same big blue chips that haven't moved for six years, and the usual tech stocks that continue to eat their own products a year later. Oh- once in a while, you'll have an oil stock but that's cancelled out by a dog like, Lucent.

I have contacted the management as well as the local rep. for the 401-k program that my wife and her fellow workers are trapped in. I asked: Why no funds that have representation from natural resource companies? Mining, timber, precious metals, oil ? Their response: They have a FIDUCIARY RESPONSIBILITY to the sponsors of the plans to uphold. Bottom line as I saw it: We've been doing it this way for twenty years; we ain't about to change.
So-- if times had changed--if the same companies didn't work-- that wasn't a problem. If the funds lost money, at least it could be shown, that they were doing it in a fiduciarily acceptable manner. Shortages, demand, supply, monetary conditions, global outlook--nothing seemed to matter. Only that these were the stocks accepted by the majority of the major companies and advisors over the period of many, many years.
Yes friends, it appears that many retirement funds are on the conveyor belt to the furnaces of the Titanic.

scottp999@Goldendome - 401k#1460297/18/06; 20:32:10

Could not agree more. I have been plawing $ into a 401k for about 13 years now. Now that I understand "the system" I have reduced my contributions so it is enough just to get the full free company match.

I actually decided a while back to do a regular withdrawl, pay taxes and penalty and buy gold. I don't think it was a bad idea for a certain portion of the $.

I feel suckered into what I used to think was investing but is actually a savings plan where the administrators are making tons of $ on admin fees even when I lose money.

GOLD FINGERThanks for the news......#1460307/18/06; 20:49:19

.....Fellow GOLD BUGS!!

It's a GLORIOUS day when gold dips. For me it's a signal that some fools need to eat and others who might be willing to buy!

I have had my eye on a few shinny pieces and so the situation is looking BRIGHT!

Again, thank you all for your awesome words and insight. I dam near think I could almost be a gold expert in just a few short months with what I read from here!


...P.S...I almost forgot...GOD BLESS THIS MESSY WORLD!!

TitanThanks, everyone. I feel better now. :-)#1460317/18/06; 21:27:34

My post this morning was kind of desperate. See, I put a good chunk of my assets in PM this year, and when I see how much I've "lost" over what I put in, I get a bit depressed.

But I'm reading "Jekyll Island" too, and I really do know I'm doing the right thing--the same thing most of you are doing with your investments and assets. I like to try and understand it as much as possible, and sometimes things get pretty darn unscrutable. But there were so many good posts today which helped me (and others I'm sure), I just had to say THANKS!

By the way, on the discontinuance of the penny thread, it would sure be a sad day to see the bill pass as it currently reads. If coinage was overseen by the Fed, that reverses an action our forefathers took in 1792 when the Mint was established. I haven't found the exact wording in the Constitution, but I think I read somewhere that it's even spelled out there that this is the Govt's responsibility--not some extragovernmental entity created at Jekyll Island! I think I'm going to write my Congresspeople about this one.

KnallgoldTitan#1460327/18/06; 23:46:18

Looking at the Goldchart often helps.I usually nail a point on the line where I "felt bad" and then wow,look what happened later.Often you don't recognise a bigger pattern/fractal starting to evolve initially,but checking the graph later will make it plain obvious.As for example the 3 year economical cycles,pretty easy to say where we are,but what if a bigger (30year) cycle starts to turn?
Looking too close on daily charts can confuse even your next few months picture.Paper Gold holders though HAVE to check closely,ya never know when tha paper starts to burn...

Admittedly this is not working well for someone who just bought in,but let me tell you by someone who started to buy in 1998/99,it feels now much more like smooth sailing compared to then.It wasn't even clear that a bigger cycle has begun nor that one will ever start again.Check the 5 or 10 or longer chart now,you see,only thing we have to guess is how long this one will last ;-)

Flatliner@spikedog#1460337/19/06; 00:18:30

Looking back, I can see how the "we must have inflation" words sparked your query for clarification. I hope that my point of view hasn't lead anyone astray. I believe your points on the matter are accurate. Particularly that inflation will most likely occur in either type of system.

You talk about the power to abuse the system as being centralized in the FED. This is clearly the case, but not because they allow the government to loan money into existence, but because the banking system must use US dollars are the reserve.

It's interesting to think about for a minute. If you hold a dollar in your hand, it's yours. It has the value of one dollar. The FED can change the interest rates, make the reserve in banks 100 percent and stop converting government bonds, but when you look at the dollar, it's still a dollar and worth a dollar. If the rate of inflation is low, say what it is today, that dollar will buy a dollar's worth of goods for some short period of time. So, even though the FED dances the devil's dance, all the currency that's already been placed in circulation if free of the FED.

It's when they set policy with regards to reserve and loans that they expand and contract the supply of dollars in the system giving them higher or lower value. They use the fractional reserve system to get the banks to increase savings or decrease loans (or whatever) affectively controlling the money supply with a few simple words.

This is all possible because banks in the system must use US Dollars as the reserve.

What if banks could use something other then US Dollars as reserve? What if the bank could hold 10 tons of coal valued at X dollars in a physical market and issue bank notes against their assets in a non fractional way? Here, bank notes get into circulation in the economy and can be use as a means to resolve transactions. Then, when it comes around to servicing the loan, the bank may accept any number of items that it may place on reserve in order to issue more bank notes.

When it came to leveling reserves between banks, they could exchange their assets. If it turned out that a bank in the Middle East kept oil on reserve and a bank in New York kept gold on reserve, they might find that both banks would want to do business in order to exchange reserves.

In this case, is it the banks that are in control or those that hold the assets? This type of system requires trading through bank notes, but not necessarily trading through a required currency. Here, anyone that holds the asset is holding the reserve of the bank.

Now, what if banks agreed to hold a common asset on reserve so that bank notes could be compared, exchanged and redeemed in a logical (global) way. It would seem to me that many different bank notes could be used to service loans or many different reserve assets could be used.

In a system like this, would policy rule or assets rule? I would suspect that assets would rule simply because the assets would be elevated to the status of money! It would not take people long to figure out that they can do business with either bank notes or the reserve asset itself.

Basically, a system that allows for a reserve asset that is not the same as the bank note allows for competition in the marketplace. When competition is available, choice is in the hands of those that hold the reserve currency.

If such a system ever becomes a reality, taxation through inflation will drive all those that hold the reserve to value it higher because the reserve value will grow over time. If all banks organize to inflate in a standardized way, people will still have the option of using currency or the reserve asset.

Financially, it will be interesting to see what the future brings. Banks all around the world have placed gold on reserve waiting for the value of the US Dollar to fall. When it does, the policy set by the FED will mean nothing and the monopoly that it holds will have to be rebuilt in order for the US to play with the rest of the world. When it is rebuilt, it will be built in a dual currency fashion (gold and fiat) and trade with once again resume with the rest of the world.

Convert what you can into the dual currency system today. If you wait until tomorrow, the fiat that you save may have not value on the world markets.

Cometosetest#1460347/19/06; 01:02:21

I've been unplugged for over a month .......

didn't miss much .........during the move .

inflation tamed ...........?
peace breaking out all over?
did the fed quit printing frns?
did Oil replenish itself ?
Did the oil cartel allow for a new technology to replace
Did the chinese population stop growing and the CCC decide to quit building infrastructure?
Did China , India , and all of islam release a statement that they and their cultures had shunned GOLD AND SILVER as money ?
Did Politicians tell the TRUTH today ?
DID they outlaw LOBBYING in Washington since I have been unplugged?
Are bankers still printing money to accomodate the promises that Politicians are making in public and in legislation ?
Did Derivitives stop trading ?
Did Long Term Vision and Planning replace Greed in Washington and Corporate America?
(Did the Dollar strengthen in the past 30 days ?

Does history repeat itself?

Did the dollar replace the pound as Reserve World Currency?

Did the world smile on gold during the dislocations which occured during the last changing of the guard with RESERVE WORLD CURRENCY?

Is changing name plates at the fed or treasury dept going to change the manner in which the world chooses to view protecting their asse(t)s against loose printers?

Is the trade balance improving ?

Does today's price of GOLD and SILVER reflect reality ?
or percieved reality?

Does a stronger dollar affect the price of GAS in a postive way ?

Will temporary relief in Energy inflation due to a stronger dollar get jerks reelected in Washington in November?

Will the dollar slide after the elections?

What will Silver and Gold do when the dollar begins sliding again ?

osa104cDeep in cENTER field#1460357/19/06; 08:47:01

fifteen, thirty, ......US$ swings......and the big sluggers aren't even on deck yet.............

BUY, BUY..........get more fever feeder.....sOOn my darlings.........soon....AMF

ShantiArabs need free monetary policy to control inflation#1460367/19/06; 14:17:20

Inflation in Arab countries is rising due to the dollar's decline and fast economic growth, and the region must break away from its US-reliant monetary policy to control prices, the chairman of the Arab Monetary Fund said yesterday.

Seems on track...

USAGOLD Daily Market ReportPage Update!#1460377/19/06; 14:19:22">
The Daily Gold Market Report has been updated.

If you are considering investments in gold we invite you to">request our free introductory information packet detailing the products and services offered by USAGOLD ~ Centennial Precious Metals. We welcome your inquiry and look forward to working with you.

WEDNESDAY Market Excerpts

Gold leaps after Bernanke comments

July 19 (from MarketWatch) -- Gold futures closed higher Wednesday, strengthened by the falling dollar after Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke signaled that the end of the rate-hiking cycle may be closer than many expected.

The dollar fell against major currencies after Bernanke told Congress that the economy is likely to slow, easing inflation pressures.

His comments came just ninety minutes after a consumer inflation report that showed core prices rising at a faster-than-expected pace.

"Gold bullion and equities took off at drag-race speeds, immediately after Mr. Bernanke confirmed that he sees plenty of signs of a slowing U.S. economy," said Kitco's analyst, Jon Nadler.

The August contract ended up $13.30 at $642.80 on the New York Mercantile Exchange, pulling back up from an overnight low of $618.90.

"The dollar had a very big reversal today," said Charles Nedoss, senior account manager at Peak Trading Group in Chicago.

"The market followed some of Bernanke's statements. Gold was trading dollar weakness today."

The dollar had found strength in recent weeks from expectations that the Fed will keep raising rates, increasing the attractiveness of the currency and assets denominated in it. Gold may now regain some of its safe-haven allure.

Overnight, fighting between Israel and Lebanon continued. Since the conflict broke out last week, at least 270 Lebanese citizens and 25 Israelis have died, according to the BBC.

An Israeli general said Tuesday that Israel's offensive would continue for another few weeks, and that the deployment of large numbers of ground forces had not been ruled out.

(from DowJones) -- "Gold's move today shows that gold reacts more to financials than political unrest in the Middle East," commented George Gero, vice president with RBC Capital Markets Global Futures.

---(see url for full news, 24-hr newswire)---

TownCrierIndia's "A-Teamers" continue buying gold#1460387/19/06; 14:32:11

(Business Standard) New Delhi July 20, 2006

Gold prices are seeing a correction owing to the expectations of a hike in interest rate by the United States Federal Reserve and the strengthening of the dollar.

However, increased buying from India on account of festive season is expected to lend support to gold in the coming weeks.

"The correction in gold is short-term and the Indian festive season would help a rally in gold. The price could be somewhere around Rs 10,500 per 10 gms in September", said Suresh Nair, vice-president of Kotak CSL Research.

"Gold purchases in India have already scaled up with the decline in prices. Traders had restricted their buying last six days on account of rising prices. But the fall in prices has induced them to buy," said Suresh Hundia, owner of Hundia Exports and former president of Bombay Bullion Association.

Standard gold closed at Rs 9,500 per 10 gm in Mumbai...

^---(from url)---^

Their September price projection (10% rise over current price) corresponds to a dollar-denominated price of $710 -- that is, assuming no change in the rupee-dollar exchange rate during this time; whereas a weaker dollar could drive our gold price higher still.


USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.Did you receive today's NewsGroup by e-mail? If not, you are missing out! Sign up below...#1460397/19/06; 16:35:56">join the newsgroup
GoldendomeAll shook up#1460407/19/06; 16:44:51

Hello...and good day. I'm drained watching these things--markets. All I can do is attempt to keep the emotional three-point seat belt tightened for these rides up and down. Reminds me a lot of the bungee capsule I rode in at Knots Berry Farm earlier this year....First way up...then way, up and down it went. Screams and shrieks from all aboard.

Whew! Nice to be sitting with just some plain old gold-- round, shiny, and real!

I don't know anyone that trades futures or options...leveraged paper gold. But brother, for many, it must be white knuckle time and pull your hair out. Nice if you can be on the right side at the right time, but disaster if you're on the wrong side.

I'm reminded of the memorable quote from that wonderful 1983 movie, Trading Places:

"One minute your up half a million in [gold] and the next, boom, your kids don't
go to college and they've repossessed your Bently."

Louis Winthorpe III

One week the market pings, because the world's about to blow up.
The next day it pongs, because the previous days were a false alarm.
Today it pings again, because the Chairman speaks benignly about inflation and interest rates
Tomorrow it may pong, if he speaks to strongly on "Good Morning America."

"It's a mixed up muddled up shookup world except for Lola." ----The Kinks

osa104cHere we go again....#1460417/19/06; 17:24:52

FED Chairman Ben Bernanke in the green room with unidentified advisors moments before a scheduled interview on AMERICA's premier news source, Good Morning America::::

Now look! We've figured it seventeen different ways, and each time we figured it, it was no good, because no matter how we figured it, somebody don't like the way we figured it! So now, there's only one way to figure it. And that is, every man, including the old bag, for himself!

So good luck and may the best man win!

Except you lady, may you just drop dead!

All right, we all agree on that. Now look, let's be sensible about this. There's money in this for all of us. Right? There's enough for you, and there's enough for you, and for you, and there's enough for...

Expect more of the SAME.........Buy high....Buy's all the same..........recycle you paper......AMF

GOLD FINGERHe's a LIAR~~#1460427/19/06; 18:02:35

I beg to differ with this old crow Ben Bernanke. I don't think he is in tune with Any American realities. He is dishing out just what everyone wants to here.

The only difference between him and Greenspam is that Bernanke dose not know how to dance.

Go figure how the sheep lay down freely for the slaughter. WHO the HOLY frick is he kidding.

Inflation in real terms is up.

Most items are UP way above even a few months ago. Cars and trips and even apples are UP.

I have watched the cost index rise and I feel it within my own business.

For the PEOPLE??

BEWARE!! It's a LIE!!

The monster is still looming! He may be in his cave...but he will be back with a vengeance!

spikedogGoldendome - All Shook Up#1460437/19/06; 19:08:15

Purchase of your Golden roller coaster ticket comes in two forms:

A) physical, where the ups and downs are wild but at the end of the ride your wealth status is exactly where it was when it started.

B) paper, ups and downs are just as thrilling but the maintenance isn't as good - if you are lucky and don't fly off the track, you wind up waaaaaay lower than when you started.

To paraphrase TC, make sure you are on the A train. ;)

Golden LionheartSeal Beach - California#1460447/19/06; 20:35:35

This could affect the POG.

There is abnormal activity at the Seal Beach Naval Base. Massive loading of many ships with large cranes etc.
Nuclear weapons are stored there.

Looks like preparation for some more ME action. Support for Israel? Action in Iran? Or just a friendly visit to Venezuela or some other country that is not flavour of the month.

Buy gold!

White HillsGolden Lionheart-Seal Beach#1460457/19/06; 21:21:44

Why not just send a telegram to all the terrorists and make sure they know all about the activity at the Naval depot in Seal Beach. I am from that area and remember during WW11 that all that area along the coast was off limits as they were on watch for an invasion from Japan. In those days you would already be in jail for making public any information about such activity. What is the matter with you? White Hills
FlatlinerReading the archives#1460467/19/06; 22:01:35

I recommend:
Belgian (6/15/03; 16:12:46MT - msg#: 104628)
@ Free Willie #104624

Belgian, It seems your point of view is one that I'm growing into. I would value your time highly, if you could find it in your heart to once again spend time teaching.

My take is learning stops when you fail to teach.

FlatlinerThe air sits still in the forum halls#1460477/19/06; 22:16:41


If there is some way where bad memories can be left behind, your voice would be welcome by many in these halls. Your long-standing devotion is more valuable to the world then some may think. Would you not reconsider your departure? Or simply call it a vacation?

osa104cEasy Does IT!!#1460487/19/06; 22:36:56

@White Hills

Golden Lionheart's post is a far cry from providing comfort to the enemy, you used the analogy of JAPAN during WWII.....His post was one of economic bullying via AMERICAN boys and our seemingly inexhaustible military resources.

War on terror?......War on Poverty?.....WAR ON DRUGS?.......STAR WARS MISSILE DEFENSE?........war on inflation.........STALIN >>turn in your neighbor????????.....

Just appears to be a harmless post to burn more dollars and humans who don't like our $$$$$$$'s..........EASY DOES IT...........AMF

GoldiloxI'm still lurking#1460497/20/06; 00:16:45

@ Flatliner,

Yes, I needed a vacation, but I am also very close to fruition on a trade show, my current economic endeavor, so I have been much too tied up for discussion.

My main scrutiny of late has been of the web bots, for while those who do not understand the technology call it "fortune telling", I personally believe Cliff and co. have stumbled onto a rough, but empirical measuring device for "collective premonition." We know from many verified experiences that both animals and people have precognitive abilities, and while it's been nigh unto impossible to catalog exactly "by what means", HPH seems to have found a reasonably reproducible working methodology. Not unlike the Hutchinson Effect, which is very real, but completely completely defies description by current physics models.

I marvel at the anachronistic comparisons of WWII and the current "Wag the Dog of Terror", but mostly because they demonstrate how completely hoodwinked the public are by the machinations of the "men behind the curtain". To compare NeoCon conquest with "1940's liberation" is about as Orwellian as anything I've seen in my many years, but I tire of discussing that. Resources abound for those with both eyes to see, and the desire to know truth.

The dollar seems to be undergoing a "dead cat bounce", but it's one that might last longer than some believe, even while gold is contrarily gaining ground based on "security fears." Security, as Ben Franklin expounded, is no more than an illusion perpetrated for the benefit of the controllers and to the detriment of Liberty. Even the Bible reminds us that major events, both good and bad, arrive as "thieves in the night", never more true than in the current instant news age of the Internet.

The CBs and anti-gold forces are finding their own "political capital" often playing cards against them, as their efforts at "world control" whip up the winds of war, thus lighting a fire under gold, and devaluing their "war script". At some point, one has to wonder when the US Dollar returns to its post-Revolutionary status as "Not worth a Continental".

As Sinclair has reminded us many times, the first drop of Saudi oil that burns will ignite a larger conflagration as well, and a fairly unpredictable Hell will be unleashed in the world markets.

Just-in-time (JIT) manufacturing and retail will be some of the first victims of broken systems, as they are completely dependent on both communication and transportation, the first things disrupted in crisis.

At that point, the US populace will find that the globalists have left them vulnerable many ways beyond "debt finance", as we are major importers of almost everything, and exporters mainly of debt paper, military "advisors", and little else of note.

Not a very strong position if the food trough is cut off by war, natural disaster, or some deadly combination of the two. The US has yet to experience the "shortages" that have plagued other regimes during major crises, but it is imprudent to assume we are immune.

The $30-40 per day volatility of PoG serves two masters.

1) For the big dogs, it chases out weaker longs and those speculators "just along for the ride." - also lengthening affordable acquisition time.

2) For the true gold-bug, it is an indication of much heightened currency battles as we enter a period the Bots call "Secrets Revealed". The worst things appear to get, the more precious one should hold his or her "Precious".

Sir Slingshot should have much inspiration for his epic Gold-battle saga in these days of major social upheaval.

melda laureFL, the empty chairs in the hall.#1460507/20/06; 00:20:22

Yes, Sir 'Lox could be a bit shrill, but his insights were unique. Who else would even KNOW about Myron Evans' work, let alone the potential implications?

And Belgian and Oro and all the old timers were a real treat. It is utterly amazing to read over the old material from years past at the turn of the millennium. Sir TC, if ever the castle offers the archives on CD sign me up- it will be one for the history books. I have read several books on derivatives, but not until this site have I ever seen such a illuminated commentary on the political aspects of high finance.

Who would belive that in the age of information would see the people at its nexus surrounded by lies?

Sir White Hills. Perhaps you might read Thos. Bearden, Oblivion. There have been numerous allegations over the years of all manner of sleepers in this nation (hezbollah, yakuza, russians, al queda, and a host of others). Not that I belive these rumours, but one can never tell, and certainly our boys diligence in finding the 911 team was somewhat embarassing. It is a new age: freelance jihadistas, internet aware terrorists, reminiscent of the chaos of the middle ages. There are no secrets, there is no privacy, the internet is a dangerous tool, as is any instrument of freedom. The truth about gold has been purchased at great cost- to be paid by the ignorant.

Puplava's guest, Dr Valerie Marcel is speaking of the political price of oil: "traditional customers" "unlike traders who sell to highest bidder" "established relationships" indeed as one said, "Your wealth not what your dollar say it is."

melda laure$30-40 moves#1460517/20/06; 00:33:41

Heca Firimar! Loose the balrogs!

$3000 per contract change in each day is a poker game for high rollers or players without an amygdala.

"We talk about security of supply, THEY talk about security of demand.... big producers dont want to put all their demand in one basket... the asian crisis is still very much in the memory of the big [middle eastern] producers... opec memebers dont want to hear about Hormuz." V. Marcel

Yes sir 'Lox, the testosterone level is too high. Best of regards.

GOLD FINGERHe said it!#1460527/20/06; 01:43:44

- James Madison


Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.

I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a monied aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs.

I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.

It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world.

Our country is now taking so steady a course as to show by what road it will pass to destruction, to wit: by consolidation of power first, and then corruption, its necessary consequence.


SundeckA "golden" moment in history...#1460537/20/06; 04:19:32

"Men Walk On Moon" 20 July 1969...

"Houston, Tranquility Base here. The Eagle has landed."

...37 years ago.

The dollar was "fixed" at 1/35th ounce of gold. "Man" had arrived at the Moon and gold was just about to start going there...

What were you doing at that moment?


GoldiloxTesla Motors#1460547/20/06; 06:10:36

OT - or is it?

While the auto companies turned banking giants mess with hybrids . . .

Tesla Motors inveils their AC powered autos today in San Carlos. Given what passes for news today, not a peep from the newswires in a Google search.

Are finally looking at a reasonable transition from our addiction to oil?

USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.Especially designed for those who are taking their first step...#1460557/20/06; 10:23:02">gold ownership starter kit
Titan@ Gold Finger#1460567/20/06; 10:29:34

I love that James Madison quote! GF, can you post a URL or pointer to where he said that? That's a keeper! Thx.
Flatliner@I'm still lurking#1460577/20/06; 11:16:24

Goldilox, It's good to see your posts again. When you were gone, I realized how important your links were to my information gathering through this forum. I will pay much closer attention so as to make sure that the contact are not lost if you need another vacation.
TownCrierBank of India gold loans for jewellers#1460587/20/06; 11:29:37

Mumbai/ Ahmedabad July 21, 2006

In a first of its initiative in Gujarat, Bank of India has launched a new scheme providing gold as loan to goldsmiths and jewellery manufacturers.

The proposed scheme ‘Star Suvarnakar Suvidha’ scheme would offer a loan of Rs 5 lakhs for procuring 500 grams of gold at a rate of interest of 9.5 per cent.

The gold being loaned has been certified by the government of India as 24 carat gold. The goldsmiths would be charged a flat sum of Rs 10,000 per month with a repayment period of five years.

...The bank's target is to give Rs 25 crore as loans against 15 kg gold for the next two-three months

^---(from url)---^

With the price of gold reasonably expected to rise due to depreciation of the rupee currency, it is unfortunate that this article did not clearly specify whether the lending rate of RS 5 lakhs for 500 grams is valid for a short time only (such as two-three months mentioned) or whether the Bank of India intends to provide this fixed rate as a subsidy to gold consumers for a long time into the future.

Either way, IF the source of the gold is from the Bank's own reserve holdings, (and again, the article again does not specify,) we can only hope that the subsequent accounting is done properly. That is, this quantity of gold must be subtracted from the Bank's assets, with the books properly showing that the solid assets have been replaced by domestic currency loan agreements, which consequently amounts to a weakening of the Bank's international reserve position.

A person is left to wonder what motivations are driving this policy decision, and whether the various consequences have been fully considered.

While depending crucially upon the accounting, on the balance this probably works out to a net positive for the very premise of gold ownership as it facitiltates the flow of physical into non-banking quarters where it resides one-for-one as property.


GOLD FINGERFor you Titian~#1460597/20/06; 13:12:51

The link may offer some more details from where I pulled the quote. He has some good words that would challenge many today.
USAGOLD Daily Market ReportPage Update!#1460607/20/06; 15:38:21">
The Daily Gold Market Report has been updated.

If you are considering investments in gold we invite you to">request our free introductory information packet detailing the products and services offered by USAGOLD ~ Centennial Precious Metals. We welcome your inquiry and look forward to working with you.

THURSDAY Market Excerpts

Gold falls late in session, traders take profits

July 20 (from DowJones, Rueters, MarketWatch) -- Profit-taking sent gold futures lower during the latter part of the New York session Thursday, traders and analysts said.

"It was quiet on the floor and all of a sudden orders came in and there was nobody to buy," said Leonard Kaplan, president of Prospector Asset Management.

"Gold just dropped out of bed. The market's thin, and with so few people trading, the funds' decision to sell a little had an extraordinary effect," said Kaplan.

A floor trader echoed this. "We had some small fund selling come in," he said. "There was a little profit-taking and liquidating going on. It was not much but with slow trading." Otherwise, he said, the move "made no sense" since there was not a sell-off in the euro or crude oil.

Gold futures closed down $10.30 at $632.50 on the New York Mercantile Exchange.

"It's a knee-jerk reaction after yesterday," said Charles Nedoss, senior account manager at Peak Trading Group in Chicago. "You didn't have any more bullish news. You just saw some people take profits."

Gold gained more than $13 on Wednesday, boosted by the weak dollar.

The dollar fell after Bernanke signaled in an address to the Senate banking committee that the end of the rate-hiking cycle may be closer than many expected.

"The small children managing money for hedge funds have been spinning their wheels," said Ned Schmidt, editor of the Value View Gold Report.

"[They] bought gold on Lebanon and sold it Monday on Lebanon. [They] bought gold on Bernanke's mumbling testimony on one day and are now selling it due to Bernanke's testimony."

On his second day of testimony to Congress Thursday, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke remained positive about the economic outlook and monetary policy.

The dollar extended its prior-session losses on Thursday.

"The market is very confused here and the confusion doesn't come from the short or medium-term price perspective -- because there is still enough confidence in the market -- but it comes from these new tensions in the Middle East," said Frederic Panizzutti, analyst at MKS Finance.

"The market is trying to position itself but still hesitates. The main question is whether we are moving toward a solution bringing an end to this conflict or we are going to see further deterioration."

On Thursday, United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan condemned the "excessive use of force" by Israel against Lebanon, and while he advocated for an immediate stop to the conflict, he said that there were "serious obstacles" to a cease-fire, the Associated Press reported.

Israel carried out 80 air strikes against Lebanon on Thursday, bringing the number of Lebanese casualties since the fighting broke out last week to 300, according to the BBC. About 29 Israeli's have died since Israel began the offensive triggered by the kidnapping of two of its soldiers by Hezbollah.

Lebanon's president Emile Lahoud called for an immediate ceasefire and described Israel's attack as a "massacre," the BBC reported. Thousands are fleeing the fighting and aid agencies are warning of a humanitarian catastrophe.

Civilians fear the bombing could get worse once thousands of foreign nationals have been evacuated from the stricken Arab country.

---(see url for full news, 24-hr newswire)---

Flatliner@Page Update#1460617/20/06; 17:33:52

The quote is: "It was quiet on the floor and all of a sudden orders came in and there was nobody to buy".

Hum… I wonder if those people are shopping at USAGold? Or more importantly, I wonder if the speculators are running out of steam in the paper market? It would seem that with the volatility right now, there would be huge sums to be made playing both sides of the equation. Speculators really should be getting rich.

Time will tell. I prefer a coin in hand rather then a Refco account.

GOLD FINGEROil, Gold, and auto hybrids#1460627/20/06; 20:45:44

Hello Fellow Gold Bugs,

It's another beautiful day in the world with all the wars, greed and heat waves due to global warming. How could things ever get better? Maybe worse?

One things for sure it's a Buying time for all gold lovers. Soon the price push will greatly accelerate. Buy now while it's low.

Wouldn't it be great if the PoO dropped to 50.00 us a barrel again? Our demand on Foreign oil would be cut in half?

We would not need their big heads and arrogance?

The Saudi's and Russians and even the pompous Iranian's no longer had a torch over our heads....Such as oil?

Since Goldilox's return comments on the new Hybrid Electric sports car I felt it necessary to add a word or two about the enormity that lies at our feet.

If we can all get on the electric and/or other alternative fuels bandwagon we might just be able to reduce our dependency on oil and may even help reduce global warming. The idea of change seems to be catching.

Then what? More instability, because oil producing companies go broke? Hmmm??

It was pointed out by Sir Goldilox that the auto companies turned banking giants mess with hybrids (meaning from the report) ELECTRIC IS DEAD? Yeah right.......This time you can listen to the report if you have speakers connected to your computer.

Tesla Motors unveils their AC powered autos today in San Carlos. Given what passes for news today, not a peep from the newswires in a Google search.<<<<< You would be pleased to know that the Google brothers have actually invested in this company! Are they on to something??

Are finally looking at a reasonable transition from our addiction to oil? Will this break the camels back?? Will we all be glad when the Prince has to beg for a buck?

Oh well, I am buying more gold tomorrow anyway!

GoldiloxTesla Motors#1460637/21/06; 00:21:00

@ Gold Finger,

"Goldilox's return comments on the new Hybrid Electric sports car"

Just in the interest of accuracy, the Telsa Motors car is a purely electric motor, not a hybrid - the kind you plug into a wall outlet to charge up the batteries, just like your razor, cell phone, and laptop 'puter. No internal combustion engine whatsoever.

I also think it's interesting that many "breakthroughs" seem to be accompanying the impending social chaos, but you gotta wonder if the corporate powers that might delay such transitions to milk their status quo are losing their iron grip.

As BB says, "Interesting times, indeed."

contrarianMy 40 cents worth#1460657/21/06; 00:35:41

Gold Finger--I have to concur, and put in my 2 cents worth (or is that 40 cents, as the dollar has lost 95 percent of its value since the vile Federal Reserve Bank was spawned)...

Will human beings stop being LIARS? (BS government statisticts)
Will human beings stop being GREEDY? (a continuous diet of consumption)
Will human beings stop being SELFISH? (Kings's Ransom CEO pay and a continuous Me First/the Hell with you sucking sound of job outsourcing)
Will human beings stop being STUPID? (silly SUV-addled McMansion Chicken McNuggets Diabetes Type II Brangelina/TomKat WWF Jerry Springer Lives of the Rich and Famous lifestyle)
Will human beings stop being POWER HUNGRY? (a continuous NeoCon litany of spurious wars and NWO)

I tend to think not and instead trust in GOLD.

The Invisible HandIt's official!#1460667/21/06; 03:43:22

The Iraq War is a Huge Success
CounterPunch - Petrolia,CA,USA
The oil market continues to transact in dollars, fragile as it is as a global reserve currency. Iranian experiments with the Euro Bourse have not taken off.



"The Federal Reserve Board, a private corporation owned mainly by foreign
interests dominated by Germany, is dubiously blocking the crediting of $4.5
trillion of repatriated offshore funds that were transferred into the United
States in May and June 2006, in fulfillment of an agreement reached last
year between the US authorities and the US financial engineering genius,
Leo Wanta, which would transform the financial and economic outlook for
the US Treasury, the US economy, the American people, and the whole world.

In so doing, the Federal Reserve, which under the Economic Espionage Act
of 1996 [H.R. 3723]* "protecting proprietary economic information, and for
other purposes", is not even entitled to knowledge of the agreements and
intended transactions, is in breach of a large number of statutes – ­rendering
the Fed's Chairman, Dr Ben Bernanke, an American of German extraction,
and senior Fed officers, liable to severe consequences, not excluding being
picked up in front of TV cameras by Federal Marshals.

At the G-8 Meeting in St Petersburg, one subject dominated the discussions
behind-the-scenes: The Wanta Plan. This is the new name for the long-awaited
Settlement with Leo Wanta, the distinguished US Treasury/Secret Service
financial genius chosen by President Reagan to develop and implement
financial strategies for the transformation of the USSR under Gorbachëv."
Thoughts anyone ?

SundeckThe nature of the human bean...#1460687/21/06; 05:28:00

@contrarian #146064 and 146065...

Yeah...probably worth posting twice for good measure...

...but I DO think you were a little should have added:

Will human beans stop being DELUSIONAL. (Flash cars and clothes; "their dignities and all that"; "the rank is but the guinea's stamp...the man's the gold for all that" - Robbie Burns...only the good die young; religions - all five hundred and fifty five of them - each one better than the other; the truth don't matter...we create relity!)

Will human beans stop being DECEITFUL. (Modern state politics; FED governors; pretense of virtue; diplomacy = how to flatter and smile and lie through your teeth; "the end justifies the means".) someone once said: "The more people I meet, the more I love my dog!"

Take care Sir contrarian, and choose your friends wisely...


SundeckSundry items#1460697/21/06; 06:00:03

A couple of things caught my eye lately:

1. US Treasury says it is prepared to limit Fannie'a and Freddies's debt issuance if Congress doesn't act...funny...I wonder if they plan to limit their own?

2. Loans are flooding into Europe...I wonder whether this could have something to do with interest rates and the likely appreciation of the Euro against the lame-duck Dollar going forward?

3. China's energy consumtion ammounts to 8.4 tonnes of oil-equivalent for each $US10,000 of GDP, which is 3.4 times the global average, 8 times that for Japan and 4 times that for the USA. (Wonder if that reflects efficiencies between China and Japan, and the make-up of "production" that contributes to GDP between China and the USA???)


The Invisible Hand"Pourvou que ca doure", they hope#1460707/21/06; 07:08:11


Israel and the US of A have fallen in the Lebanon trap.

After Afghanistan, Iraq, and Lebanon, it is improbable that the warmongers (Israel, US-of-A and UK–of-GB-and-NI) will also take on Syria and/or Iran. If they would do this, it would result in a war all over the Middle East and how can they possibly sell this to the neutral observers (the cool amigos of the US of A)?

Kofi Anan, the UN fuehrer, gave a balanced speech in which he refused to call Hamas/Hezbollah terrorists.
This was not to everyone's likening.

In the meantime, Iran WOULD be able to continue working on its bomb and the on petro-euro, whereas Hamas and Hezbollah are provoking Israel in such a way as to force them to commit more war crimes.

Now, suppose that Iran gets such a bomb and uses it like the US of A used it against Japan.
At that moment the petro-dollar and US of A dollar hegemony will be over.
If not, we will import radio-active oil after a possible US of A / Israel counterstrike.

It is because Saudi Arabia wants to avoid any trouble with Hamas/Hezbollah/Iran and because Saudi Arabia is fed up with the Iraqi shiitis that Saudi Arabia remains loyal to Anglo-Amerikan power. This explains also why there is no pressure on the price of gold (POG) from that side, although the Anglo-Amerikan globalists did already punish them with a little stock market crash.

Meanwhile, Hilary Clinton and most of the democrats in the US of A Kongress have sold their soul to Israel.

The EU's coward silence (neutrality) is therefore being interpreted as an agreement with the three warmongers.


Gold wants to break free from the petro-dollar regime.

After 50 years of containment of interest rates and the consumer price index (CPI), it would be funny to compare the permanent loss of purchasing power by the currencies with real estate prices. This would demonstrate how contained interest rates and the CPI are.

But the present POG is still being contained.
Its behaviour is nevertheless demonstrating that it is in the first stages of being discontained.
A runaway POG would immediately and IRREFUTABLY demonstrate that the petro-dollar regime is broken.

It is therefore of the utmost importance for central banks (CBs) to continue collaborating to try to achieve an orderly gradual unwinding/transition.

To the extent that the three warmongers in the Middle East perform their atrocities in Lebanon, these atrocious geopolitical facts make the synchronisation policies of the CBs, through price-fixing collusions on interests rates for example, more and more difficult.


The synchronising CB acrobats are succeeding for the moment to keep the POG in line with their interest rate and CPI delusions.

Pourvou que ca doure (let's hope that this continues), said Louis XIV's mother in the Southern French dialect.

Other acrobats are sustaining, not containing, the stock-market index. (Where's my retirement money?)

Both the containing and sustaining are still in US of A dollar hands. Wait till my namesake takes over. Of course, I must be careful to allow her to break free as Freegold.

I said earlier this morning that it was official that the war is a huge success for the warmongers because the oil market continues to transact in dollars, fragile as it is as a global reserve currency and because Iranian experiments with the Euro Bourse have not taken off.

Our learned officials are however forgetting that a consistent CB containing of the POG, a sustaining of the stock-markets, and a synchronisation of interest rate policies are becoming more and more difficult. The Invisible Hand cannot be straitjacketed forever.

Why are capital providers (MICROSOFT stock holders) not entitled to a higher dividend, but must the price of MICROSOFT be supported by buying back another $20 billion of its shares next month.

If that's not sustaining of the Dow Jones, what is it?
Can you give Another reason why the Dow is at the same level for the last six years?

"Americans have a severe disease — worse than AIDS. It's called the winner's complex," said [former president Gorbachev]. "You want an American style-democracy here. That will not work."

Thank You, Mikhail. This could not be said more clearly. It is also perfectly applicable to the global dollar colonisation and the dollar financial fraternity.

This "winner's complex" is growing exponentially.
It has consequences for the behaviour of the POG.
The systemic global imbalances will increase at the same exponential speed.

All exits have been closed.
There's no way to achieve an orderly gradual unwinding/transition.
No gradual unwinding of imbalances.
No gradual transition to discontaining the POG, nor to dis-sustaining the stock-markets.

This whole globe, which derives its pseudo-prosperity from the petro-dollar, will suffer the consequences of the petro-dollar mismanagement.

What Israel is undertaking is a change of tactics with respect to the pursuit of this regional vision. The initial plan seems to have been based on a decisive military and political victory in Iraq followed by an essentially diplomatic campaign to exert major pressure on other problematic governments in the region, relying on The Greater Middle East Project of ‘democratization’ to do the heavy lifting without further military action. Instead what has occurred has been failure and frustration in Iraq, which has turned into an American quagmire, but more seriously, a consistent set of electoral outcomes throughout the region that have discredited a political approach to the regional vision embraced by Washington and Tel Aviv with the goal of achieving compliant Arab governments that are passive with respect to Palestinian aspirations, and accepting of American hegemony.

The warmongers, led by the US of A, want to democratise the Middle-East.

First question: what's democracy?

Quot capita, tot sententiae, there are as many opinions as there are heads (brains?).

US of A capita are of course superior and they know what is democracy. And since 9/11, anybody who doesn't agree with the US of A is of course a terrorist.

Underneath is hidden: the end of the petro-dollar hegemony as predicted on these pages since 1999 by Another and Friend of Another (FOA aka as TrailGuide)

Yes, the Middle-East must be democratised, PROVIDED that we continue to be supplied by cheap oil priced in dollars.

This explains why the POG did not move significantly when Kuwait was burning. The traveling monetary consultants had already explained the Freegold concept to Arab and Russian oil and gas producers and also to most Asians, except to the Japanese. The French (Pourvou que ca doure) had already suggested ‘oil for euro’ to Saddam. Bad luck for His Presidential Highness.

Iraqi Death Toll Rises Above 100 Per Day, U.N. Says

Not only are the warmongers entitled to preemptively destroy, but also to COLLECTIVELY punish for everything which can randomly be labeled by the Anglo-Amerikan democratisers/civilisers as terrorism.
The only aim of such labeling and destruction is to provoke more terror.

The US-of-A and UK–of-GB-and-NI are very happy with the actions of their Israeli pitbull.

The Chinese understand this since a long time and keep their North-Korean dog on a straight leash.

This explains why China is for the moment being left alone by the warmongers.

The dollar system realises that is being attacked from all sides.

This explains why the EU keeps a low profile amid all this escalating violence.

White HillsThe Invisible Hand#1460717/21/06; 08:12:54

Give us a break! Middle-east-on line?, Israel War Crimes? Warmongers? What crud, it seems along with your opinion on the gold markets we have to read your anti USA and Western everything rant. Pathetic. White Hills
White HillsWeb-Master#1460727/21/06; 08:50:39

I have been coming to this forum since 1999 in order to keep abreast of all the latest info on Gold! That is my interest, not wacko politics. I bought some gold from USA Gold last week and this week. I will buy more in the coming weeks everytime it dips if possible. There are other places to buy gold but I prefer USA Gold for a lot of reasons. I have to tell you it has become very difficult to come to this forum and read some of the posts. Everybody is entitled to his or her opinion and if he or she wants to express it, fine but go to political sites where the readers have an interest in those kinds of opinions. Lately, it seems, I have to hold my nose to get through all of the political rants and quotes from Islamofacists web sites . I know it is the policy of this forum to eliminate political rhetoric that does not apply to the gold discussion but it seems of late there are more and more inappropriate subjects. My opinion. White Hills
osa104cWHAT??????????????....@ WHITE HILLS??#1460737/21/06; 09:02:58

James Franklin, (Benjamin's half brother) was labeled a "TREASONIST"……..Colonists and accurate history knows him as a "PATRIOT"………. The English empire placed a huge bounty on his head via a monarchal and tyrannical lynch mob……… WE AMERICANS have lost sight of our glorious NEW ISREAL nation…………FREEDOM first….equality for all………..PATRIOT ACT… a joke….the sheep fall prey to their WILES and gladly (under the cloak of PATROTIC duty)….(known thinking, cogently dead or unable) march to the slaughter ………OUR FALIURE to note, announce and question the actions of our entrenched LEADERS????, as to their lies, deceit, and magicians misdirection……….would be equivalent to placing our heads in the sand and wish we could see………….

GOLD (monetary freedom)……….coupled with submission to a CREATOR……gives all men courage, strength, hope……….THERFORE, we share OUR collective experience, strength, and hope with one another that we all are strengthened and become free…………………AMF

KnallgoldUSAGOLD#1460747/21/06; 09:51:36

I do find TIH posts are perfectly interwoven into the Golden saga.

On the other hand,White Hills posts are always just complaining about other posters/views.

I think most,if not all know wheres the limit regarding political and off-topic stuff (watch their twists to get on-topic...).And theres no flag on the posters names,ranking their purchase sizes.

Just to say I LOVE this Forum!

spikedogTIH#1460757/21/06; 10:16:56

To the extent that the term "warmongers" is used 7 times in post #146070, one is hard-pressed to believe that the ultimate goal was to discuss gold.
spikedogLease rates - gold price#1460767/21/06; 10:22:33

Looks like gold lease rates went into the tank again today. And, what a surprise, the price of gold is dropping like a stone. I do hope we get Another lame "profit taking" headline to explain gold's move today.

Belly up to the window and get your gold while it's cheap. Thank you PTB.


Druid968 (7/21/06; 04:21:29MT - msg#: 146067)#1460777/21/06; 10:27:18

Druid: I'm still trying to cypher this one and how it could be utilized to clean up our balance sheet(U.S.)if it's a valid contention/story. The paper faction would be able to derive a lot of mileage out of this one. For those of you who have not come across this possible fable, see link for this "tale".
USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.How do you usually react to a SUMMER SALE? Do you take advantage, or do you run away from it?#1460787/21/06; 10:33:25

History shows that it pays to be resolute!

seasonal opportunity

GOLD FINGERHoly golden nuGGets~#1460797/21/06; 10:45:22

Current events, politicians, gold mines, strikes, and other world events all effect or shinny little nuggets that we call GOLD. So if you have something to say, SAY IT! My nuggets are man enough to take it. Now, if we could get the crooked politicians out of our live we might actually get some where.
Liberty Head@White Hills#1460807/21/06; 13:39:00

Don't forget to wipe!

Best Wishes

goldquestJust what we don't need!#1460817/21/06; 14:25:50

The Federal Reserve in charge of the U.S. Mint and the Bureau of Engraving.
Rep. Jim Kolbe of AZ. has introduced a bill do do away with the penny and to turn the oversight of the Mint over to the Fed. Uh-uh, I don't like the smell of this one!

USAGOLD Daily Market ReportPage Update!#1460827/21/06; 14:56:10">
The Daily Gold Market Report has been updated.

If you are considering investments in gold we invite you to">request our free introductory information packet detailing the products and services offered by USAGOLD ~ Centennial Precious Metals. We welcome your inquiry and look forward to working with you.

FRIDAY Market Excerpts

July 21 (from DowJones) -- Comex gold futures came under attack from a sell-off of fund long positions Friday at the New York Mercantile Exchange, leaving the yellow metal to drop to its lowest level in three weeks.

While the metal saw a support from a weaker dollar and firm oil prices at the open, that was soon reversed with a quick dash to a $616 an ounce three-week low amid fund long liquidation. At the close, the contract was down $12.30 at $620.20.

"Despite supportive factors, market participants are still happy to take profits as the sentiment remains cautious in the short term, which capped the market," said analysts at MKS Finance.

Gold was hit by a wave of selling with the price dropping $10 in minutes and slipping once again below the $625 level, traders said. During the session, one analyst noted that funds have moved out of the market and are less aggressive than they had been in previous months.

For the medium term, analysts at MKS Finance said the outlook remains positive, underpinned by the ongoing Middle East tensions and high oil prices. But they added that volatility will remain high as trading volumes are light in July and August due to the vacation period and industrial shutdowns.

(from MarketWatch) -- Reports suggesting Israel may invade Lebanon pushed crude oil for September delivery above $75 a barrel Friday, while the dollar dropped to one-week lows against the euro and the Japanese yen.

"The market is on hold," said Ross Norman of TheBullionDesk, adding that traders are waiting to see whether the end of the Fed rate-hiking cycle is indeed approaching.

Norman said that gold will rise in the long term: "It's not a question of if; it's a question of when."

The Israeli army mobilized thousands of reserve troops and warned civilians in southern Lebanon to leave the area immediately, media reports said Friday. Israel continued bombing targets in Lebanon and Israeli troops continued to battle Hezbollah forces. Several rockets struck Haifa, Israel's third-biggest city. Since the fighting broke out last week, at least 330 Lebanese and 34 Israelis have been killed.

In another development, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Friday that a quick cease-fire between Israel and Lebanon was a "false promise' and that the United States would seek to deal with the "root cause" of violence in the Middle East, the Associated Press reported.

Diplomatic plans Rice presented Friday resulted from two days of meetings with United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan and other U.N. officials. Annan has called for an immediate cease-fire, but the United States and Israel have rejected the proposal.

Peter Grandich, editor of The Grandich Letter, said he remains a long-term gold bull, while he is bearish to neutral on base metals like copper. "While geopolitical events are adding to the volatility, I continue to believe gold should trade in a broad range of $575 to $675 through the end of August," Grandich said in a note to investors.

"Strong seasonal factors and a continuing long list of bullish fundamental and technical factors should lead to a new year high in the fall."

---(see url for full news, 24-hr newswire)---

USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.Gold enters consolidation mode#1460837/21/06; 15:02:43

Platts, 21 July 2006 -- Gold recovered more than $6 from its lows in early European trade Friday as traders began to buy the dips. Key support was identified at $618/oz and one Continental Europe-based trader said that gold came within a dollar of this level.

"We saw gold at $621/oz when Europe opened and now we're up at the $627/oz mark – it feels like we've been talking about this $620-645/oz range for month," the trader said, adding: "There is a lack of liquidity because of the summer and there is also a lack of direction as everyone is trying to make a quick buck. When gold is up everyone is buying, when it is lower everyone is selling."

The trader suggests that with the security issues in the Middle East, bullion should be much higher. "The selling has been done by those who were long and are disappointed with the current prices. On Monday we were at $675/oz and it was a one way street [selling] Tuesday, Wednesday and yesterday they let the traffic back and it was a two way street," he said.

The trader said that he had the impression that those with deep pockets would be there to buy the dips now that the market was not as long and the weak positions has been flushed out. He also suggests that "with the dovish tone of the FOMC, a US dollar under pressure and all the geopolitical problems I cannot see why gold cannot be above $700/oz before the end of the year."

TopazComex trading.#1460847/21/06; 15:29:03

These incessant dips in PoG when all but Comex Aug Contracts trading have shut up shop are beginning to get up my nose.
What does it tell us?
Well, it's long been my contention that in the final wash-up we'd see precicely this type of trading action, albeit more pronounced, as the world shuns the paper component of the Gold market for the more tangible physical.
Are we starting to see this now? ...dunno, but I'll tell you one thing, these dips bear all the hallmarks of a mini Paper/Physical separation imo.

GoldendomeTime for a frosty Ice tea and maybe a few Valium.#1460857/21/06; 17:27:41

Looks like a tough day for nearly all of the markets. Look at the INO postings for markets at the top of the page...everything red! Bonds, dollar, stocks, gold. Digging deeper we see the only green were for crude oil and gas. Gas, I guess that a lot of you get your electricity from that source, eh? Maybe that's how it caught the bid today, hot weather and air conditioning.

Hot where I am, central Washington State, 103F, as I post; supposed to get hotter tomorrow...How 'bout you? Hope the electricity stays on for the air conditioning...I think that it will, here. The county owns two large hydro dams down on the Columbia. Power to burn, baby!

The wheat in this area's coming in now. The farmers are, as everyone is, complaining about their costs. Fuel in, fuel out, fertilizer, and now, their markets drop too!

Stagflation: Rising costs, declining revenues, profits squeezed in the middle. That's were we are in the cycle right now, friends, IMO. It may not last long, can't, I don't believe. Someday soon we'll see some serious damage reports...the Fed gets scared; the flood gates open once again...and it's blue sky and sunshine, again. Another round of interest rate cuts and serious pumping.

beowulf +COT#1460867/21/06; 19:28:26

The Commodities Futures Trading Commission has indicated that it may stop publishing the COT (Commitment of Traders) report, pending input from the public by Aug. 21.

This was taken from Whiskey and Gunpowder publication....any thoughts?

GoldendomeBeowulf#1460877/21/06; 20:02:56

Golden Lionheart@The Invisible Hand - Post #146070#1460887/21/06; 20:57:55

Great post! You are telling it like it is.
melda laureBuying the blood on the streets.#1460897/21/06; 21:01:20

Air conditioning, Sir Goldendome? That's what the wine cellar is for, a nice venue in which to count one's money.

Well who would have thought: the week begins with pre-NY trade up to the 675 area and ends with a pop off 615, and all the while the Lebanese Vacation giving every indication of turning into a permanent "amusement". Perhaps if this turns into a true battle of the five armies we will all be able to load up at $50/oz! I would like one of those 100oz "platter" coins with the kangaroo, merely to serve seed cakes on of course.

Perhaps I should sober up first.

"You want an American style-democracy here. That will not work." Yes it is easy to call Mr Gorbachev nasty names, but in his defense, he sees that American Democracy as a curious one-party state: republicrats, or is it democrublicans? Perhaps it should just be called "captive finance" as in "prisoner of wall-street." Regardless, Russia could never aspire to have its high finance the dominant financial center of the world- ergo, Russia could never AFFORD an american style democracy.

Sir White Hills, I readily appreciate your frustration, I dislike about half of the political comments here. We are all guilty of america bashing, (some moreso than others). But to read any gold web forum almost pre-supposes that one is a dissident of some sort: gold reflects all American Ideals and is the measure of its Failures: market manipulation, fiat, statism, crypto-socialism, and a host of ills. On the international stage, gold highlights exactly how UN-FREE the world markets are, and how much covert (and overt) statism, and coercion have crept into what ought to be voluntary and mutually beneficial arrangements.

But these things are hidden unless looked for carefully. Free trade and free capital flows denominated in fiat are like handling a live fish- hard to get a grip on, and while the Mugabes Chavezes and Putins of the world may disgust us, yet they have a point: our lack of admission of the faults of the Present Order only cedes to them a foothold on the moral high ground.

A foothold only, perhaps, but one that is increasingly obvious to their countrymen, and one which presidents did not need answer for back in 1914 nor in 1941. It is a great hazard, for americans will willingly fight and bleed for freedom and to extend liberty but they will not so much as lift a finger to defend the hegemoney of fiat-crazed Wall Street treet in foreign lands, not at the last seige. This I fear is the achillies heel which Bin Laden and his Allies will attempt to strike. They know the lessons of Vietnam, Afghanistan, George 3rd's colonies and the Belgian Congo. They needn't win, the have only to wait until a dollar blowout does the heavy lifting.

It is not freedom that the so called "islamofascists" hate, it is Israel, and that only because they took Jerusalem. And they grow incresingly disgusted with the US because it is Israel's support. Who owns what, or who is responsible is irrelevant, Ms Rice will not succeed in repairing the root causes. To be sure, there are moderate voices- but as you have seen, Sir White Hills, moderate voices are lost in a war, here as well as there, and so I apologize if I have had the poor grace to break wind in such august company as this. Given the circumstances, doubtless some of us have been drinking heavily of late!

It is a strange poker game that Bush, Putin, the Iranian President, and the Chinese are playing: who is the mark? Who is dealing under the table? And what of those quantum potential Aces? "Pourvou que ca doure (let's hope that this continues), said Louis XIV's mother" This is madness.

It is madman's poker. Let us hope the prices continue, and that the ineviatble mexican standoff at the table does not spray us with lead whilst we dash for the broken pinata. Friends, we are at the sack of Nargothrond: Sauve qui Peut! The days of weeping can wait.

Poor Lebanon! She is too close to Baalbecq, as was Baghdad to Babilon.

melda laureHisenno, Beowulf, "into the fog"#1460907/21/06; 21:14:51

Perhaps it would be better if they released "seasonally adjusted" COT figures.... BWAHAHAHA! s'cuse me.

Sir TIH, I for one can not blame Mr Anan for playing the middle ground: he does not have an army like Mr Putin, or Mr Bush, (and many of us fear the day that Anan WILL have both armies and authority.) Yes, it almost seems as though Iran has rolled out a red carpet marked "Crusaders, welcome! Place Knecks Here: x,"

The markets (gold, stocks, bonds, 0.45 ACP) are far too complacent, drunk on derivatives perhaps.

GoldendomeSir: Melda laure#1460917/21/06; 22:10:12

Excellent points, all!
melda laureRense needs a few disclaimers, or a calculator.#1460927/22/06; 00:29:14

Druid, 968, et al.

This is a poorly written article at the least. Assuming for the moment that the essence of the story is true, clearly this was a 27 trillion LINE OF CREDIT to be used for "geopolitical engineering". What sort of "asset" generates 192 billion $ in revenue every day? This is 3 times the monthly US current account shortfall. Multiplied by 365 days and it is almost 6 times US GDP.

Had one of the recent newcommers to this forum brought it up I would have dismissed it, but based on your reputations, rather than dismiss it out of hand, let us suppose that it is truth mixed with lies and misperceptions. I could perhaps belive a geopolitical engineering slush fund. It certainly seems that JPM plays as though they had such a credit line- drunk on derivatives indeed! Entertaining, yes, but I will not essay to parse it further.

monTROZWhoopsee#1460937/22/06; 01:59:37

I'd like to echo the frustration of others on this forum of knowing those who are serious personal advocates and who put their money where their mouth is and those who just like to hear themselves talk. So not just complaining I'll propose a solution to describe ones personal commitment which can be abbreviated to a few characters. If each poster voluntarily would describe his personal position in the gold and precious metals market the rest of us would know where each stands. The abbreviated code would be something of a personal statement of where ones personal investments stand:
A Gold bullion coins or bars
B Gold Numismatic coins
C Silver Bullion coins or bars
D Silver Numismatic coins
E Other Metals bars or numismatics (Pt, Pd, Rh)
F Precious metal equities
G Precious Metal Futures contracts, Au, Ag, Pt Pd, etc.
H Precious Metal Derivatives, Options, ETF's, Leases
I In the business, Personal attachment to precious metal dealers, bullion banks, miners, or refiners.

This might temper some of the vocal but uncommitted voices. So to start it off I'll offer my own stance
ABCEFG (former I)

I hope that will give those who respond some idea of who's doing the talking.

Then since It's a weekend and the power just came back on after a brief (hot) blackout.

A different subject:

Many posters here have reviled the U.S. economy as not producing or exporting anything anymore. Not really knowing if this was true I looked up the trade figures. The result of a tiny amount of research found the U.S. as the second leading exporter in the world, Germany was first. Only one oil exporting country was in the top twenty (way down the list at 19th was Saudi Arabia). I'm not sure what all the stuff that is shipped from the U.S. is, but it was worth about 900 billion dollars in 2005. The same information site yields the whopping 1.6 trillion in imports for 2005 so there is the trade deficit. But a whole lot of stuff is still being produced and shipped to the rest of the world besides dollars.

Then, is it just me or did anybody else figure that if Hezbollah knew when they were gong to attack, the obvious market bet would be short the US market, and the dollar and go long gold and oil. This would produce an expected trading profit after an attack on Israel. Well, whoopsee the markets did the opposite. Is that manipulation? Economic warfare, or Goldman Sachs response to Jihad. Somebody is probably badly underwater and crying for peace now, hehehe.


The Invisible HandYes, Amerika is in great fear#1460947/22/06; 02:24:51

Stephen Blank 6/21/06
EurasiaNet Commentary
To the chagrin of American diplomats, the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) has quickly emerged as a force to be reckoned with in Central Asia.
Since China and Russia show signs of wanting to use the SCO to pursue their own interests at the expense of smaller members and external powers, it is quite possible that differences will grow behind the facade of unity. Washington must be alert to exploit any openings to gain geopolitical advantage. While the political, ideological, and military dimensions of the New Great Game in Central Asia continue to heat up, it should be clear to all players that plenty of time remains in the contest. The SCO now appears to have momentum on its side, but such an advantage can dissipate quickly.

The Invisible HandInside Putin's mind#1460957/22/06; 02:37:41

"And now the latest: Israel vs. Lebanon. I can't really fault Israel for self-defense. But of course, in my public statements, I talk differently; I say, ‘Israel is pursuing wider goals,’ playing to the fear among Arabs, Muslims and other Third Worlders that Israel is just a cat's paw for Yankee imperialism. It's that dread of America that strengthens my new alliance, Shanghai Cooperation Organization; right now, the SCO is mostly me and China, but it could grow, I hope, into a Eurasian counter-NATO."
GOLD FINGERGOLD=VOLATILITY#1460967/22/06; 03:26:42

I know some!
I don't know everything!

But what I do know is that GOLD, the precious metal that has been with us since the beginning of time has and always will be volatile.

World pressures only make it worse. I have read numerous reports on the artificial suppression of GOLD and the powers that be want it DOWN at their leisure and then up when they wish. The theories are many. However, from what I do know, gold is going UP. The charts prove this. It will be a matter of time when the game of gold will only become more interesting and ALL the rhetoric surrounding it becomes much more intense. Buy gold and hold it. Sit back and enjoy the next move.~

Thanks to all inspirational posters of this forum.

GoldiloxWhoopsie is right!#1460977/22/06; 09:13:58


I don't discuss my personal holdings or buying and selling patterns with anyone who doesn't have a "need to know".

I'm certainly not interested in posting that information on the Internet.

GoldendomeNewt Gingrich makes his point that World War III is in progress.#1460987/22/06; 09:47:47

An on-line radio interview.

Newt Gingrich, former Speaker of the House, makes his points that World War III is in progress. The former speaker, makes his argument using history, current and past events, and current rhetoric being used to make his case. Tom Ashbrook of On Point, is the interviewer and gives Mr Speaker, opportunity to say his piece with only limited interuption. Mr. Gingrich makes many good points here.

Click the "listen here" link above Mr. Gingrich's picture at the web site, either Windows Media or Real Player.

Ten BearsKen Lay's Alive! #1460997/22/06; 09:50:28

by Greg Palast.

What does this have to do with gold?...The 'greed is good era', which really got rolling in the Reagan term, and the great money supply expansion/bank bail out, during the Greenspan tenure coupled with the removal of all reasonable restraints on monopoly power will likely lead gold to price levels in excess of even the expectations of most gold bugs.

USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.FREE Gold Information Packet... immediately available to you by e-mail!#1461007/22/06; 14:19:35

PalAnother marker on the Gold Trail?#1461017/22/06; 17:15:52

Some snips from an interview with Peter Zihlmann.

"...ETFs might reduce the importance of the futures contracts."
"...that is exactly why we need gold as a safe reserve."
"We do not keep any actual gold or silver in our gold fund, because, in our opinion, everyone can do this for himself, without having to pay a commission."
"But someone really wishing to have a little put aside if worse comes to worse, would certainly be well advised to have some gold coins readily available."

Could it be that ETF's could actually help the process of gold revaluation? I'm not clear on how they "might reduce the importance of the futures contracts," but I wonder if physical ownership/delivery of the metal held by the ETF is part of the picture(i.e. instead of COMEX "promises" to deliver). Could we possibly see regional ETF's battling it out for the physical metal selling/delivering it back and forth with demand/value determined by each region's faith in their own local currency? It seems you would need large active players doing their part to discover the fiat equivalent price of an ounce under a freegold system. This quote triggered some ideas I hadn't had before so I thought I would share.


DryWasherWill the Amero, or Amigo, replace the Dollar?#1461027/22/06; 18:27:36

Today, 7-22-2006, Jim Puplava discussed the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America (SPP) in his third hour broadcast, in which he jokingly refereed to the currency which might be created under it as the 'Amigo', but which most refer to more seriously as the Amero.

The above link is to a July 9th article in on the same subject which also mentions the Lou Dobbs criticism that Puplava refereed to.

The important point here is that the SPP is being taken seriously by some very sharp people.

Sir AuVenger first brought this to our attention with his post, USA Gold 144572, and his follow up post 144575 in which he stated:

"I posted this as a small reminder to us all that there are forces at work (described by Another and FOA) who have plans - regional currencies, at one level, see below - the Amero- but higher up the pyramid, at the apex, are planners whose overall goal is a one world digital currency - perhaps gold backed - so that ultimate control can be established.

I have been studying this for 20 years - even wrote a book about it (Dancing on the Brink of the World - at Amazon)- and all signs indicate that these plans have not gone away for these folks - from their POV it's just a matter of time..."

Very insightful thinking sir AuVenger. Perhaps we are beginning to get a glimpse of the end game for the dollar, if we are smart enough to recognize it.


osa104cmonTROZ -- msg#: 146093)#1461037/22/06; 19:49:37

Time out >>….statisticians also note manufacturing has increased…….assembling hamburgers ……….. I don't follow….Are you serious???…….Keep coming back, bring the body, the head will follow……BEST to you………...........AMF
The Invisible HandThe ink of my msg#: 146070 of yesterday is not yet dry …#1461047/22/06; 20:22:19

The real issue about inflation
The CPI inflation figures are far from perfect but they are not grossly wrong. My concern now, and the concern of the authorities and the markets on both sides of the Atlantic, is not about whether inflation is being under-recorded but about whether the measured inflation rate is going to rise further. Recent pronouncements by the Federal Reserve's chairman in the US and the Bank of England's Deputy Governor have sounded relatively relaxed. But if inflation rises much further their relaxation could turn to panic.

Putin plan to shut out US oil giants,,1826629,00.html
Kremlin will favour Norwegian firms to develop Barents Sea field after differences with Bush scupper Russia's bid to join WTO

British split with Bush as Israeli tanks roll in,,1826969,00.html
· Minister attacks 'disproportionate' raids
· 2,000 troops cross into Lebanon

melda laureLeo Wanta, @druid, 968, from a sister-forum.#1461057/23/06; 00:25:03

SNIP: "my gut feeling is that there is a very real connection between the story and Gold. Though such a story only sees the light of day, or the day of light, from the direction that the mass media has been allowed to cover; it is the CAST OF CHARACTERS that gives away the significance in relation to GOLD DEALS gone bad. In fact, it is the part about Gold deals gone bad that might well be the underlying issue in the end of days for the Fed. The cast of characters.....past Presidents, Fed members, CIA names, secret funds, Iran-contra.......the list which might tell a tale of history, past and present....

..."Another" related his stories of the relationships of Gold and Oil. He spoke of UNSPOKEN UNDERSTANDINGS between men that assured certain results. Now, today, those terms he quoted have ceased to exist. Along with that break, we have seen volatility intrude all parts of life, me thinks. Why and how were those understandings eroded?


About as much as one could expect. Not that everyone is aware of Catherine Austin Fitts et al. As with the SPP between The United States of Amerika-Canukia-Mexchica, we here but rumours, EU-west.

(note: you may have to adjust the forum timestamp to access from July 23, 2006, at 23:00)

Druidmelda laure (7/23/06; 00:25:03MT - msg#: 146105)#1461067/23/06; 03:46:04

Druid: My Lady, I'm not so sure that we can readily and easily discard the Wanta story, query "International Currency Review" then point and click on some of the hits. For example:

"CIA Accused Of Bank Heist

Shortly before U.S. forces began streaming across the Iraqi border, commencing Persian Gulf War II, the CIA and the Department of Defense, with a little help from Israel and some Europeans, pulled off a massive bank heist in Iraq to the tune of several billion dollars.

Exclusive to American Free Press

By Gordon Thomas

The CIA and the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) are accused by International Currency Review, the London-based journal, of mounting a joint ultra-secret operation to electronically remove an estimated $10 billion out of the Iraqi Central Bank hours before the start of Persian Gulf War II. The whereabouts of the money is not known.

"We believe it is in a secret CIA fund which will be used to mount further special services operations, such as tracking down Saddam Hussein," said the Review's publisher, Christopher Story.

Story is a former financial advisor to Lady Thatcher when she was Britain's prime minister. In the past 10 years, he has testified before several congressional committees dealing with financial scandals.

DIA coordinates all intelligence for the Joint Chiefs of Staff. It is headquartered in the Pentagon.

The report is titled "The Great Robbery of the Central Bank of Iraq." It has been sent to finance ministers of leading nations, the World Bank, the Bank of England and heads of all other major banks.

The report is bound to cause huge embarrassment to President Bush after he signed an executive order on March 23, ordering a worldwide hunt for the hidden assets of Saddam Hussein and his family.

The Review claims that using skilled hackers recruited by the DIA and key Iraqi bank officials who had been bribed to provide secret access codes to the Central Bank's accounts for Saddam Hussein and his family, the money was transferred out of the bank in a high-tech operation.

According to the General Accounting Office (GAO), the investigative agency of Congress, Saddam was estimated to have accumulated "$6.6 billion between 1997 and 2000 from illegal oil smuggling and from illicit deals connected with the United Nations oil for food program."

But a substantial portion of that money may have been lifted by the secret CIA/DIA operation.

The operation, claims the Review, was masterminded by the CIA/DIA out of a military facility, Redstone Arsenal, in Alabama. It is the base for U.S. Special Ser vices.

"The money was laundered through a number of CIA controlled accounts, including some held in the Discount Bank of Israel, Credit Suisse in Switzerland and the Dresdner Bank in Germany," said Story.

He confirmed that Germany's secret service Bundesnachrichtendienst (BND) is checking with the major German banks on electronic transfers, which could match the $10 billion.

The Review states in its 25-page report that it had questioned a key member of the operation. She is identified as "Nelda Rogers, a debriefing officer with the Defense Intelligence Agency."

"She was in Germany last year when American intelligence officials were devising covert operations ahead of the long-planned conflict. She has revealed that a covert operation targeting the Central Bank of Iraq took place prior to and during the war. The operatives involved were military ‘black operations’ personnel brought into service for this purpose," said Story.

The Review claims that Rogers and a team of ten DIA operatives were financed through the U.S. Department of Agriculture. They were supported by CIA agents in Iraq.

"In all, 100 people were involved in the operation," says the report. "The Department of Agriculture has been consistently used to hide payments for U.S. covert operations," claimed Story, whose headquarters are close to Whitehall.

The Review states: "The U.S. Department of Agriculture is used as a paymaster for certain DIA ‘black operations’ because it has traditionally remained unscrutinized."

"Like the Federal Reserve Board and the U.S. Treasury's secret Exchange Stabilization Fund, the Department of Agriculture is yet another federal agency which benefits from a special exemption from rigorous auditing by the General Accounting Office."

The Review also states it has testimony from Rogers that the operation was designed to "purloin the Iraq Central Bank's assets ahead of the arrival of U.S. troops in Baghdad. This suggests that the operation was designed for a nefarious purpose, rather than to help use it for the rebuilding of Iraq."

After interviewing Rogers and "a number of U.S. intelligence operatives," Story confirmed he received three warnings to stop his investigation.

"I was told that 19 people are very dead as a result of trying to cover what you are exposing," Story wrote in an editorial in the Review.

The Review costs $475 a copy and is one of a small group of titles that Story publishes on financial intelligence for the world banking community."

I realize, that when traveling through cyberspace and bellying up to the bar at that Rense portal, you have to run your crap detector at full throttle but it's not to far a stretch from the magic that can be conjured up using digital entries representing "trillions of dollars".

According to the latest "Wanta" tale, Monday should be an interesting day for the markets. Well, let's see...Always enjoy your comments:)

DruidInteresting Site...#1461077/23/06; 03:55:08

Druid: FYI.
GoldiloxCatherine Austin Fitts#1461087/23/06; 08:21:50

melda laure,

Ms. Fitts was a high level auditor in the Bush I admin, who blew the whistle on $1 TRILLION worth of fraud at HUD around 15-20 years ago (About 15 more years after Dr. MLK warned about it, and was offed soon after). Her efforts got her 10 years defending everything from her allegations to her personal IRS filings in criminal court, and cost over $1M in legal expenses.

She now runs the Solari Network, an advisory service that shows municipalities how to manage their finances and local investment capital outside the crooked realm of federal government.

She has appeared as a guest on Puplava's conservative FSN Broadcast, and many other more reliable outlets than the one you mention that definitely requires "filters on".

I saw a great bumper sticker today.

"Blind Loyalty to Bad Leaders is NOT Patriotic"

GoldiloxSinclair's reaction to this week's PoG attack#1461097/23/06; 08:39:21


In this reaction I will begin my line of longs at just below the $612 Angel knowing I might be $10 wrong for a short while then off to $682 for the 3rd time.

The action of gold in the face of all things positive for the metal can be called "Uncle Sam versus Mt. St. Helens" just before it went BOOM.

What is occurring is there is a committed loan of gold to the big boys at COT. This guaranteed cover [for] the wham, slam, blam, crash type selling takes place in order (as Dan said) not to sell volume, but to panic the longs, which is always quite easy in today's world. The interesting and telling thing about the recent flop from $730 in the $500s was that it came and went in a FLASH. This indicated the loan promise was very short term and the cover needed to be made fast or the stop loss from a friend on Uncle Slam in London would evaporate.

Now put yourself in Paulson and Bernanke's place. The world of their interest is unraveling quite quickly. Business is slowing down internationally. That impacts all things dollar negative. The problems in the Middle East seem to always grow. Gold is the tale that could ignite everything so a call to London is appropriate. Each time this is pulled the low will be higher. The game will be history by summer's end. For the fleet of foot professional this is nothing but opportunity akin to golden fish in a barrel. That is as long as you don't mind being early on the buy and early on the sell, not seeking projection, simply profit. For the investor it only means you join the "Hole in the Ground Gang."


While JS is a miner with his own "holes in the ground", I get the impression he is talking a different kind of "hole" - one that is designed to protect against confiscation by the "crooked and powerful."

melda laureImaginary trillions, and faux gold bars.#1461107/23/06; 15:59:47

Yes, well stocked. Wine, cheese, a small keg of brandy, whiskey.... gunpowder too, and a small mite of the dragon's hoard!

I dont suppose it is to any purpose to recall that the so called "iraqi gold" was never found. We were "told" that what were found were gold plated brass bars, the implication is that the average american serviceman is incapable of telling the difference. Strangely, those brass bars have never been seen since, at least I haven't heard anything though the facts (few as they are) are quite plain.

GoldiloxIslamic Gold Dinar#1461117/23/06; 19:42:06

@ melda laure,

One other thing that's gone missing since the Iraqi Invasion and Indonesian tsunami, is any public mention of the "Islamic Gold Dinar".

It seems gold's greatest currency challenge to Dollar hegemony has been thwarted by the sum total of geological and geopolitical actions.

Iran, the focus of the latest NeoCON war rhetoric, is the last remaining proponent of an Islamic hard currency. I wonder how much gold they acquired to prepare their mint, and how they plan to protect it if they are invaded?

The Invisible HandCondi Rice and Milton Friedman#1461127/23/06; 19:44:20,2933,205185,00.html
The Saudi diplomats also denied a New York Times report that suggested that the administration is pushing behind the scenes for Saudi Arabia to reach out to Syria in an effort to convince it to turn against Hezbollah.
U.S. Plan Seeks to Wedge Syria Away From Iran
But so far, there appears to be little discussion of offering American incentives to the Syrians to abandon Hezbollah, or even to stop arming it. The Bush administration has been deeply reluctant to make such offers, whether it is negotiating with Damascus or with the governments of Iran or North Korea

So Condi wants the Saudi to exercise pressure on the Arab terrorists in order to have them stop unilaterally with the hostilities and to have them agree with all Israeli/USofA demands for a cease-fire.

These are the same Saudi who flew into the WTC towers?

Such demand is ‘the’ way par excellence to set up the Arabs in conflict against each other.
USofA/Israel give all weapons to one fraction so that the unequal conflict among Arab brothers can again violently break out (compare Iraq).

Such a provocative divide and rule strategy weakens Syria, Iran and Iraq and forces Arab oil to continue flowing.
For the moment, this is okay for Russia, as long as the price of oil does not decrease.

Saudi Arabia is thereby very cooperative with the US of A dollar. It is indeed not helping the euro and gold to arise.
Quite to the contrary, it is allowing the petro-dollar to proliferate.
The dollar-regime is thereby earning half of its annual military expenses back.
Not a bad deal for the dollar regime.

Illuminati Cash "Slush Fund" Estimated At 65 Trillion DollarsBy Greg SzymanskiJun 22, 2006, 19:12
Illegal Federal Reserve At Heart Of Problem As Minnesota Judge Allegedly Poisened In 1969 After Ruling Against Corrupt Banksters
The New Underworld Order's bank accounts are used for bribery, murder and corruption world wide as private Illuminati-controlled bankers make money out of thin air. European investigators trying to trace the illegal funds, say the Illuminati's Global Security Fund needs to be stopped and is the difference between freedom and slavery in America.
23 Mar 2006
The Illuminati's cash cow, grazing freely on the world wide pasture of greenbacks, isn't called "Elsie" but instead is called the Global Security Fund, a name actually meaning in the secret cult's language Global Terrorist Fund.
In simple terms, it's a gigantic illegal trust fund, estimated by undercover overseas financial investigators at 65 trillion dollars, set-up for "Illuminati rainy days" and established when it is desperately needed in a pinch for bribery, assassinations and sponsoring world wide terrorist activities.
However, one man who may hold the key to exposing much of the illegal banking fraud and recently released from a 20 year jail term, is former Russian and CIA operative, Ambassador Leo Emil Wanta.


the aim to bring back black money into the monetary system, is just Another vehicle to achieve monetary expansion.

Is this a new Marshall plan?

Have we forgotten Milton Friedman's definition of wealth as all sources of "income" or consumable services, one such source being the productive capacity of human beings, which capacity is therefore one form in which wealth can be held
(Milton Friedman "The Quantity of Money – A Restatement" , reprinted in Kurt R. Leube (ed.), "The Essence of Friedman", Hoover Institution Press, 1987, 285, p. 287)?

There is money and there is EASY money.

That is why capital will continue to move to places where economic activity (so called growth) is increasing (Asia).

This so-called Wanta money will not change anything.
Rumsfeld is worried about Iran's admission as an observer to the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, which is to say, that he is worried about a budding Chinese-Islamic axis that might lock up petroleum reserves and block US investments. If Chinese economic and military growth make it the most significant potential challenger to the Sole Superpower in the coming century, a Chinese alliance with the oil-rich Muslim regions, including Iran, would be even more formidable. The Shanghai group has already pulled off one coup against Rumsfeld, successfully convincing Uzbekistan to end US basing rights in that country.
The increasing resistance to an American hegemony over two-thirds of the worlds depleting oil reserves has been evidenced by what the Council on Foreign Relations calls "the rise of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization". (China, Russia and the four 'Stans') Now of course there is talk of Iran being added to the organization, a move that would likely forever kibosh America's plan to attack and therefore one fervently to be wished.

White HillsPost #146089-Melda laure#1461137/23/06; 22:07:58

Sir Melda laure, I appreciate your response to my posts. You have made your points and your case in a thoughtful and polite manner. How refreshing. It may surprise some that I really do agree with much of what you have written. It is not so much what some posters say but how they say it. I will give you a few things to think about and would appreciate your opinion. There are two factors that are not mentioned very much if at all, that I believe must be considered by all. Israel has the BOMB!! They have said before and will say again "Never Again!" If push comes to shove and they believe that their very existence is threatened I believe they will use it. Enemies that intend, as they have stated many times, to destroy Israel surround them on three sides. The other consideration is that Islam's stated objective is to destroy Israel as well the rest of us infidels only because we are not Muslims. War is the main vehicle for Islamic religious expansion. It is the Muslim religious duty to bring peace to the world via the sword. Islam has never forgotten the 1000 years of conquest in Europe brought to close at the Battle of Tours where Charles Martel (The Hammer) defeated the Muslim army. To say that all the strife in the Middle East is caused by the fact that Israel occupies Jerusalem is to forget history. If Israel would go away, and of course it won't, there would still be Islam against everybody else. Besides any claim that Islam has to Jerusalem is by conquest. After all its entire name is Jerusalem.
Sir Goldilox, Glad to see you back. Yes, the Gold Dinar may be sidetracked a bit but it is one of the goals of Islamic expansion and it will continue to work towards this goal. White Hills

Ten BearsFederal Reserve: The One Bank of Sauron#1461147/23/06; 22:28:25

by Bill Walker


The Federal Reserve is a "central bank," in other words, a check-kiting Ring of Power. It is called the "Federal Reserve" because in 1912 Senator Aldrich attempted to pass a bill creating a "central bank." All Americans knew at the time that central banks caused inflation and deflation; the bill failed.

The next year Aldrich introduced the same bill, but called the new organization the "Money Mafia" to make it less distasteful. No, not really. He called it the "Federal Reserve" and confused enough people to pass the Federal Reserve Act on December 23, 1913

So, nothing unusual here. All "regulatory agencies" (starting with the ICC, which cartelized the railroads) have always been captured (or more often, created) by the industry they "regulate." The Fed is the regulatory agency for banks,

Printing money is not some sort of charitable activity. In addition to simply stealing from those on fixed incomes, inflation damages the entire information flow in the economy. If no one knows exactly what money is worth, they can't calculate profits and losses.

The destruction of information doesn't stop there. Inflation and deflation make it even harder to predict the value of money years in the future. If there is deflation, you can't pay off your debts; if there is inflation, your savings, insurance payouts, bond interest etc. become worth less. Inflations and deflations transfer ownership of real goods around, scrambling property rights (and always in favor of those who know monetary policy in advance).
1980: The Fed was granted another malevolent power by the Council Of Idiots. Under the Depository Institutions Monetary Control Act of 1980, the Fed can, and does, simply print tens of billions of dollars to buy the worthless bonds of all the dictatorial regimes on Earth. This is called "monetizing foreign debt," because "Aid to Dependent Dictators" doesn't sound as professional

GOLD FINGERThe issue of amalek#1461157/23/06; 23:02:35

I noticed the most GOLDEN sunset tonight!! That's a good omen for me to buy some buffalos tomorrow!!

Since this is now a political forum I guess I can have my dig too.

With all the contention in the world from small to large I am always amazed how some will talk about things and feel it's right only when they deem so.

In other words...... There is going to be wars. Lots of them. Everyone has a bomb nowadays and for God sakes I hope they don't use them, If the do maybe everyone will become friends like we have become with Japan and the Hiroshima drop!

So POW! Get it over with already if that's what they (in the Middle East) want. Their conflict dates back for thousands of years.

I heard a Rabbi talk how the modern Hezbollah sect is a remnant of the amalek. <<<more

In other words it seems to me that conflicts will continue to plague the world like it has for centuries. This makes gold and other commodities attractive. Stock up. Save. Get out of debit. Get a gun or a knife and sit back and watch the fireworks!! POW boom BANG~

USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.SECOND EDITION: Written for Today's Market#1461167/23/06; 23:30:21">Gold Investing - Second Edition
melda laureIt is Hot, we are Tired, the rocket is primed, and the matches are soggy.#1461177/24/06; 01:30:45

Yes these are trying times, Sir White Hills, and it is difficult to be civil when I would rather deal out blows. The dreaded Feanoritis, I suppose.

Enough about this pointless conflict! It is clear that the market forces (free- or manipulative) are dominating the POG/POO/DXY action. Neither bombs, earthquakes, nor waves on the sea or in the ether will suffice it seems to move over-derivativized markets to rationality. Some years back Mr Tlaga said "if it is not solved through diplomacy it will be solve via truck bombs". He was wrong. It seems that sir Black Blade is right, the contents of one's cellar are all that matters. One can own wine and cheese, but not dollars. Dollars are a contract - a two sided deal in which one's counterparty has no honor. If one wishes to OWN wealth then only physical will do.

Moving on, I have begun to muse on oil paper. Is it possible that the mispricing in major oil stocks is due to some sort of suppression? Would an 18x PE on COP CVX XOM and so forth indicate that Peak Oil is being discounted? I find it much more convincing that the entire market BELIVES that $40 POO is just around the corner (along with DOW 13,000). What other rationalizations could there be?

Punitive Windfall taxes? (Over George's Dead Body!)
Disastrous reserve writedowns? (No Oil CEO would risk Prison by hiding this)
Nationalizations? (Not priced in the futures)
Serious Deflation? (Helicopter Ben... seriously now)
Massive Employee Options Exercise? (easily refuted)
Enormous hidden expenses? (where is all that cash going?)

It seems that this pricing anomaly is ripe for a dramatic resolution. Consider again what the current prices say about oil, and what a truer picture of the future oil price would imply for gold. Or perhaps oily paper is as useless as gold paper.

These are but idle thoughts. Suppressing POO seems an extravagant means of suppressing POG. It is more likely that the market has reached a point where further gains seem inconceivable to those wedded to the Core CPI "no inflation" world view. Time will tell.

Sir Ten Bears, quite amusing! Perhaps Sirs Goldilox and myself could engineer an active volcano electronically. Of course it would mean the end of New York, and I am rather fond of their cheesecake. I wonder which would be more destabilizing, toasting all 12 reserve bank cities or the eventual dollar repudiation? Let's not be hasty. But more to the point, who exactly wields the power of the ring? Not Bernanke alone! And further, it is clear that there are other owners of lesser rings quite reluctant to see the one destroyed just yet. An apt conceit, yes, but perhaps it does not ring true on all levels?

Moving on to a link on the page you indicated, (aid to dependent dictators). There are some who would utterly discount the (lurid?) tale of L. Wanka as described by Mr Rense. Yet the historical facts of Captive Dictator Finance do suggest it is quite within the bounds of real historical events.

Well, where is POG going? Perhaps a double bottom? Perhaps a new low? (Dream on!) In any case, there is little time left before Mr Bernanke must grace us with more fireworks. Perhaps then we will witness the most absurd trifecta of all: POO decisively below $70, POG painting the tape with a convincing "lower lows and lower highs", and an end to rate hikes with the excuse that "inflation is dead". It all sounds absurd. Perhaps the Persians will invade Switzerland to get their money back while enroute to reconquer Grenada? Silly, yes, but no sillier than the notion that you can ring up the Castle and lock in these manipulated prices.

At the least, the Dagor Lebanemar can not fizzle out until the elections are well in hand: we need the distraction from the now stale theatres in Baghdad and BinLadenstan. This sets us up for an explosive unwinding of EVERYTHING just in time to bankrupt the yuletide: merry golden christmas! Sorry the goose fell into the fire!

SundeckWorld Gold Council announces investment demand for gold has risen#1461187/24/06; 04:41:36


'There has been a noticeable surge in gold jewellery purchases by customers, despite the increase in gold rates. People have realized that the boom will not see a sudden crash, and so are returning to the gold shops. Young people who are buying gold for their marriages, are diverting money from unnecessary expenses towards buying gold, which is seen as a more bankable asset for their future', said Mr. Moaz Barakat, Managing Director for the Middle East, Turkey & Pakistan, World Gold Council.

With general positive consumer sentiment towards gold rise, the metal has once again proved its bankable aspect as the best hedge in a volatile market.

Sundeck: ...this from Mr. Moaz Barakat, Managing Director for the Middle East, Turkey & Pakistan, World Gold Council.

SundeckOn human relations...#1461197/24/06; 05:23:20

...this pertinent "peace" of research into human (mis)behaviour from today's NYT:

"He Who Cast the First Stone Probably Didn't"

by Daniel Gilbert, a professor of psychology at Harvard...

...interesting results scaleable in their applicability from the level of kids fighting in the back seat of the family sedan, right up to whole nations at war...

...and including, perhaps, contributions to well-known gold discussion forums???


CopperfieldLease rates @ Towncrier, all#1461207/24/06; 05:32:03

Can anyone tell me how lease rates are set? When you look back to 1996, lease rates are constantly headed lower. Does this mean that gold cannot get into backwardation against fiat currency?


SundeckWhat's on in Denver?#1461217/24/06; 05:34:21


The U.S. Treasury, the Smithsonian and the American Numismatic Association are coming to Denver to show you the money.

Notes worth more than $1 billion will be on display Aug. 16-19 at the World's Fair of Money at the Colorado Convention Center. The exhibit includes some $100,000 bills, the first silver dollar ever made by the U.S. Mint (insured for $10 million) and the first gold coin made in the U.S. (insured for $6 million).

Sundeck: $6M? Mmmm...I'd guess that is a fair premium over gold content...but it seems silver trumps gold in this if that ain't "delusional" what is?


SundeckUSA out-flanked in Eurasia energy politics?#1461227/24/06; 06:03:38


The Shanghai Cooperation Organization, SCO, was founded in June 2001 by China and Russia, and includes Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, and Uzbekistan. Its stated goal was to facilitate ‘cooperation in political affairs, economy and trade, scientific-technical, cultural, and educational spheres as well as in energy, transportation, tourism, and environment protection fields.' Recently, however, the SCO is beginning to look like an energy-financial bloc in central Asia consciously constructed to serve as a counter-pole to US hegemony.

Sundeck: A brief summary of some of the energy-geopolitics unfolding in Asia and elsewhere...


GoldiloxDollar fate#1461237/24/06; 08:57:18


I said I wouldn't write on Monday, but here I am wide awake at 4am and thought I would share some information. I received an email from Merrill Lynch's chief strategist arguing the dollar had no way to go but down.

His name is Richard Bernstein. His note was written July 21, 2006 and was addressed to all clients of Merrill Lynch, which as you know is a lot of people who manage a lot of money. He pointed out quite rightly in my opinion that the problems with global trade imbalances are largely caused by over consumption in the US.

His explanation is simple and those trained as economists will see it as insufficiently detailed, but I believe it explains to the average investor what will happen to correct the imbalances we face.

He goes on to say there are three main methods to decrease global imbalances caused by over-consumption of energy and consumer goods in the US:

1. Raise taxes. This is not what has been happening. Part of US over-consumption is because of recent US tax cuts. It is still politically popular to cut taxes in the US so I do not see a tax increase coming.

2. Raise interest rates. This has been happening for a few years. It has corrected some imbalances in the US but not solved the US over-consumption problem. US interest rates are near their peak as Mr. Bernanke has made clear in his recent pronouncements.

3. Let the dollar decline. With talk of the Fed easing on the horizon it is not hard to follow his logic. It will lead to a dollar decline. Such a dollar decline will eventually decrease consumption as goods become too expensive for Americans to buy.

We all know Merrill Lynch is a major firm. Their chief strategist warning all institutional investors to be prepared for a decline in the dollar can be expected to create further pressure on it.

In an opinion Jim and I share, a dollar decline will be strongly correlated with a rise in the price of gold.

Sincere best wishes,

Chris PowellFour brokers, including Goldman Sachs, fined for breaking short-sales rule#1461247/24/06; 11:17:23

From Reuters
Monday, July 24, 2006

NEW YORK -- NYSE Group Inc. said on Monday it fined four firms a total of $1.25 million, saying they violated a U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission rule on short selling.

It censured and fined Daiwa Securities America Inc., a subsidiary of Japan-based brokerage Daiwa Securities Group Inc., Goldman Sachs Execution & Clearing, part of Goldman Sachs Group Inc., Citigroup Global Markets, Inc., a subsidiary of Citigroup Inc., and Credit Suisse Securities, part of Credit Suisse Group.

The scale of the violations resulted in fines ranging from $250,000 to $400,000, NYSE said.

Short sellers borrow shares they view as overvalued from a brokerage, then sell them and wait for the market price to decline. If it does, then the short seller buys the shares back, returns them to the brokerage and pockets a profit on the difference between the sale and the repurchase prices.

NYSE said the operational deficiencies concerned Regulation SHO, a securities rule meant to protect the market and investors from short sale abuses.

The SEC's Regulation SHO became effective in January 2005.

All four companies consented to the penalty without admitting or denying the allegations, NYSE said in a statement.

MKSmartest Man in Europe bullish on gold#1461267/24/06; 11:53:17

"A decade ago people were talking about a billion people buying a McDonald's hamburger or a Coca-Cola each day. From his point of view, we should be thinking about three billion people buying a milligram of gold whenever they get some spare cash." Byron Wien

Also. . .

Stephen Roach on "Inflation targeting: an elegant but dangerous idea.

And. . .

"Will the Federal Reserve create the new socialist Man?" by Karen de Coster and Eric Englund.

Last. . .

George Will takes on the 'radical' neo-cons

And. . .

William F. Buckley says 'Bush not a true conservative.'


The USAGOLD NewsGroup proposes to bring you by e-mail what we consider important breaking news and opinion likely to affect the gold market. Already the recipient of many kudos from our friends and clientele, we cordially invite yoo to join the Group by going to the link above for a quick sign-up. We are surprised here at USAGOLD how rapidly our ranks have grown.

Each carefully selected article will be graded on a one- to five-star basis by which we hope to pass along the benefit of our many years' experience and knowledge.

USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.Proven Reliability, Longevity, Quality and Professionalism ---- Invest with Confidence!!#1461277/24/06; 12:46:03

TownCrierGold expected to calm until September#1461287/24/06; 13:47:35

JOHANNESBURG ( -- Gold analysts are predicting a stable gold price in coming weeks, so long as Middle East tensions do not escalate.

...US based precious metals consultancy, CPM says that one of gold's attractions as an investment are its Safe Haven qualities. "One of the single most important factors behind the sharp increase in gold prices from 1978 to 1980 was the freezing of Soviet and Iranian assets by the European, Japanese, and US governments," says CPM.

...Physical buying could underpin current prices in gold, according to in India, which says that festive buying in India, the world's biggest consumer of gold, is likely to lend support to gold in coming weeks.

Matthew Turner, an analyst at consultancy Virtual Metals expects gold to keep with history and remain stable over the rest of the Northern Hemisphere summer, before making moves again in September.

^---(from url)---^

For more insight on the historical track record of gold's typical price performance through the slow summer months and then into the frisky autumn and winter months, visit the following report...

TownCrierIRAN: Gold Exploration Needs Boost#1461297/24/06; 14:00:31

TEHRAN, July 24--Iran's ranking as the third largest consumer of gold in Asia makes it crucial for the country to devise special policies to expand the exploration of new gold mines.

...Behrouz Borna, manager of exploration affairs at the Geological and Mineral Explorations Company of Iran maintained that it is no longer acceptable to lag behind other countries ... efforts should be made to identify and study potential gold mines at the earliest.

He added that the annual gold production in the world stands at around 2,600 tons while demand stands at around 4,000 tons per year.

Turning to the programs carried out by the Geological and Mineral Explorations Company of Iran, Borna said, "...Last year several gold mines became operational giving fresh lease of life to exploration efforts across the country."

According to him, Sharafabad region has about 1.5 tons of proven gold reserves but this figure could even be higher as explorations have not been completed yet.

"The Geological and Mineral Explorations Company of Iran plans to conduct its operations in these regions in cooperation with several Chinese companies," he noted.

^---(from url)---^

Does this joint venture cause a raised an eyebrow on the topic of gold: Iran AND China?

It shouldn't surprise readers here any more than would the finding of peanut butter together with jelly in a sandwich.


KiloShort Selling Fines ?#1461307/24/06; 14:22:34

Yeah, sure..... Let 'em get away with it to the tune of billions, then fine 'em a few hundred thousand. Nice P/R. At least let 'em suffer the consequences of the court system. These tough judges of ours are getting alot stricter these days, with their longer and longer suspended sentences and all.
USAGOLD Daily Market ReportPage Update!#1461317/24/06; 15:22:42">
The Daily Gold Market Report has been updated.

If you are considering investments in gold we invite you to">request our free introductory information packet detailing the products and services offered by USAGOLD ~ Centennial Precious Metals. We welcome your inquiry and look forward to working with you.

MONDAY Market Excerpts

Gold dips near $600 in NY session, rebounds

July 24 (from DowJones) -- Comex gold futures were knocked down to a three-week low on Monday at the New York Mercantile Exchange, however, they did recover some losses by the close.

At settlement, the benchmark August contract was down $7.00 at $613.20. The contract got as low as $602.50 during the session after data from the Commitments of Traders Report showed that speculators had built up their long positions during the prior week of trade.

Speculators were 107,374 net long as of July 18 versus 101,929 net long the week prior, the CFTC reported late Friday. Dave Meger, director of metals trading at Alaron in Chicago, said "The gold [futures] market was prime for liquidation."

(from MarketWatch) -- Gold futures slipped anew Monday, as Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice arrived in the Middle East in the first American on-the-ground diplomatic effort to resolve the conflict between Lebanon and Israel.

Contributing to the weakness in gold prices, the dollar rose against major currencies on Monday.

Crude for September delivery was last trading up 47 cents at $74.90 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange, buoyed by sharp gains in natural gas as triple-digit temperatures across much of the U.S. raised expectations for energy demand.

Fierce fighting between Israel and Hezbollah militants continued Monday, as Israeli ground forces moved deeper into Lebanon.

About 380 Lebanese citizens, mostly civilians, and about 37 Israelis have been killed since the conflict broke out on July 12, according to reports.

Against the backdrop of violence, Rice unexpectedly visited Beirut on Monday where she met with Lebanon's prime minister in a demonstration of support for Lebanese democracy, according to reports.

Rice is in the region to try to resolve the conflict, even though both she and President Bush have ruled out negotiating an immediate ceasefire.

---(see url for full news, 24-hr newswire)---

TownCrierCopperfield (msg#: 146120), on gold lease rates#1461327/24/06; 17:45:50

Bullion banks the likes of Barclays, Deutsche, HSBC, JAron, JPMorgan-Chase, RBC, ScotiaMocatta, SoGén and UBS strive to offer OTC gold-derivative financial products extending well beyond simple gold loans, and one of the extensions of this activity is that each institution offers quotes at which the bank would be willing to provide the gold portion of a gold-dollar swap in accordance with a consideration of the bank's own current position and policy.

At the core these quotes are forward rates for gold (for various periods of maturity), and when subtracted from their corresponding LIBORates (the currency counterpart within the aforementioned gold-dollar swap), effectively the thing derived is the gold lease rate. So, in answer to your question, that is how it is set.

As for why it has shown its particular performance over the years, as a derived figure, the answer rests in the combination of 1) the bullion banks' accounting positions and policies with regard to facilitating these operations and 2) the coincident path of LIBOR.

Probably the less I say on point #1, the better.

On your final question, I'm not sure I understand your point about whether the metal can "get into backwardation against fiat currency".

The limit of my experience with the term of "backwardation" of the metal is when it's compared against itself with respect to terms of delivery (i.e., prices for immediate delivery of metal being higher than prices for future delivery).

Can you rephrase the gist of your inquiry -- or maybe someone else can help?


The Invisible HandAnswers to cause of high oil prices would be too revealing#1461337/24/06; 19:48:26
The yuan has touched its highest level against the US dollar since revaluation exactly a year ago.
Iraq may sink deeper into chaos and instability if the conflict between Israel and Lebanese Hezbollah is not halted immediately, Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki warned Monday.
IDF Chief of Staff Lt.-Gen. Dan Halutz said on Monday that a Hizbullah missile attack on Tel Aviv still remained a real threat.
PARIS (AFX) - Bank of France governor Christian Noyer has voiced concern over the high level of oil prices and the recent strong rise in French house prices.
ECB Council member Christian Noyer told Le Figaro in an interview published today that the current oil price is bad for the world economy and that the ECB shouldn't exclude energy prices from its inflation calculations because they affect consumers.
LE FIGARO: Pourquoi les entreprises, contrairement aux ménages, n'ont-elles pas tiré parti du crédit bon marché pour investir ?
CHRISTIAN NOYER: Les taux d'intérêt ne sauraient être le seul déterminant des agents économiques ! Pour les entreprises, il faut sans doute admettre que l'environnement, réglementaire en particulier, n'a pas été favorable à l'investissement. Un certain nombre d'entre elles ont aussi été tentées d'investir prioritairement à l'étranger, soit pour conquérir des marchés, soit pour obtenir des conditions de production plus favorables. Mais il semblerait que les choses soient heureusement en train de changer et que l'investissement redémarre dans la zone euro, y compris en France.

Low interest rates which made private individuals invest, did not make companies invest
The regulatory environment was not favourable.
Some companies have preferred to invest abroad.
But it seems that change is on its way.


If house prices are too high, then the ECB will be asked to raise interest rates. But the same ECB will then be accused, on the one hand, of pursuing a "too" restrictive monetary policy and, on the invisible hand, it will be accused of being responsible for the lower growth rate (e.g. in comparison with the US of A).
And then Trichet must reply that the national leviathans must implement structural changes.

This is a vicious circle out of which we can apparently not escape.

Every time reference is being made to the to-called US of A growth miracle (monetary expansion).

Noyer also says that there is no SERIOUS investment in expanding growth during this period of low interest rates.

We are therefore SATURATED and do thus not take steps into risky growth areas/sectors.

If this situation goes on for a long period, more easy money will have to "appear’. This will lead to higher price inflation. The Kurt Richebacher theory.

The high/higher price of oil is still being accused of being the culprit.
WHY is nothing being done to remedy this?
WHY does NOBODY ask this question?

Is it bekause the possible answers would be TOO revealing (far-reaching)?

YES, of course!

NO global synchronisation can be achieved about this oil price evolution.

WHY is it that interest rates can be synchronished, but that such a synchronisation cannot be achieved for the oil price evolution?

Does this not concern a ‘global" threat for the globalising economy?

Do the imbeciles not know that higher oil prices will result in higher price-inflation, through wages?

Is it then any wonder that business women will look further and further for lower wages in South-Amerika and in Asia.

The high oil prices is thus forcing the West to recolonise (as though there were no native civilisations there) South-Amerika and Asia.

DELOCALISATION and cheaper imports and higher costs at home.

This is the argument par excellence in order to start "VALUATING" OIL with a wealth-asset (the GOLD EURO).

SundeckGold lease rates#1461347/24/06; 19:48:39

@Copperfield #146120

...following from TC's #146132, the attached link provides information on the gold lease rate that may be of interest/assistance to you (if you are not already familiar with it).

Of course, the factors that have given rise to the historical variability in lease rates (see, for example the long-term plots at kitco are, I suspect, really what you are driving at.

These variations are indeed a source of wonder. I suspect that there have been attempts to understand the general decline in rates over the last ten years, culminating in the stable and very low rates at present. Of great interest is the several impulsive changes (peaks) that have occurred over time, and the inversion of the "gold yield curve" whereby short-term rates (1-month) frequently exceed annual rates during these periods of enhanced variability.

I feel that this time sequence of lease rates must have been analysed and discussed by some knowledgeable groups (GATA perhaps), but I cannot point you to such an analysis off the top of my head...probably worth hunting around a bit on the web, in this forum's archives (using Google search) or in the GATA records...



ToolieMercosur#1461357/24/06; 21:12:27

Snip: BUENOS AIRES -(Dow Jones)- Economy ministers from member nations of Mercosur, the South American trading bloc, are working on joint proposals to improve their countries' standing in the International Monetary Fund...

Among the proposals' topics are a "redistribution of power" within the IMF....

Mantega also said that central bankers from Argentina and Brazil will meet in early August to move forward with a proposal to create a system that would reinforce the use of local currencies in trade between the two nations.
The move seeks to curb the use of U.S. dollars, which puts pressure on the two nations' currencies, Mantega said. "It would also be a first step toward a common currency" in the region... (end snip)

TopazComex Del'y#1461367/24/06; 23:00:34

I think we may be seeing the last of this current backwash in PoG as we now creep toward the Aug roll-over.
Whilst July Ag has proven a return to normality with a tad over 4k contract equivalents changing hands, the interest now shifts to Aug Au. ...and I'm excited!!

Today we see, out of the blue, 600 Contract equivalent Oz's of Au slated for July delivery.
With the 100T getting done in June, this is either someone "real" late or an earlybird on August, with the "worms" getting harder to find.
Today also marked the first day in a long while where the NY Line, when all else was done, went UP!

ArcticfoxIsrael, Iran and the US: Who Will be Blamed for Nuclear War?#1461377/25/06; 04:10:39


The war on Lebanon [current flare-up between Israel and Hezbollah] may well escalate to the point where the US will use nuclear weapons against Iran, in what would be the first use of nuclear weapons in war since Nagasaki. And the world may well blame the Jewish State [1], [2].

GoldiloxThe Price of Peace#1461387/25/06; 04:55:54


With the Cold War allegedly being "won" at the turn of the 1990's – many western politicians busied themselves with thinking of new ways to "spend" the Peace Dividend. What a good many of these same politicians forgot – was something history has taught us all – namely, that peace comes at price:

"On the 13th May, 1919, Count Brockdorff-Rantzau addressed to the Peace Conference of the Allied and Associated Powers the Report of the German Economic Commission charged with the study of the effect of the conditions of Peace on the situation of the German population. "In the course of the last two generations," they reported, "Germany has become transformed from an agricultural State to an industrial State. So long as she was an agricultural State, Germany could feed forty million inhabitants. As an industrial State she could insure the means of subsistence for a population of sixty-seven millions; and in 1913 the importation of foodstuffs amounted, in round figures, to twelve million tons. Before the war a total of fifteen million persons in Germany provided for their existence by foreign trade, navigation, and the use, directly or indirectly, of foreign raw material." After rehearsing the main relevant provisions of the Peace Treaty the report continues: "After this diminution of her products, after the economic depression resulting from the loss of her colonies, her merchant fleet and her foreign investments, Germany will not be in a position to import from abroad an adequate quantity of raw material. An enormous part of German industry will, therefore, be condemned inevitably to destruction. The need of importing foodstuffs will increase considerably at the same time that the possibility of satisfying this demand is as greatly diminished. In a very short time, therefore, Germany will not be in a position to give bread and work to her numerous millions of inhabitants, who are prevented from earning their livelihood by navigation and trade. These persons should emigrate, but this is a material impossibility, all the more because many countries and the most important ones will oppose any German immigration." - From John Maynard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace (New York: Harcourt Brace Jovanovich, 1920), pp.211-216.

Notice any parallels with America today? Does this not resemble a script of Play It Again, Sam? Garden variety conspiracy is too light a word to describe our empirical realities, folks; this looks a whole lot more like HIGH TREASON to me. Look what has happened to much of American industry. It's gone already! With the onset of Peak Oil and energy [fertilizer] price increases - what has happened to American adventurism? How about the cost of food production? With labor being the other key component in the cost of food production – does this not begin to explain American immigration policies? Have labor costs not factually been held arbitrarily low? What happens if labor costs normalize?


Just to put this into perspective, it comes from a conservative financial investment web site, not a political site. The article also addresses the death of the Penny and some other important inflation indicators.

USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.The calendar is running out on the Summer Doldrums...#1461407/25/06; 10:59:41

Have you taken action to use this period to your advantage?

seasonal opportunity

TownCrierCastro warns of commodities boom#1461417/25/06; 11:22:56

SAO PAULO, Brazil (Bloomberg): Cuban President Fidel Castro, on his first trip abroad since December, warned of uncertain consequences from the global boom in commodities prices.

"There are so many phenomena taking place in the world that no one has been able to explain so far," Castro, 79, said at a meeting of Latin American leaders in Cordoba, Argentina.

"It has every economist dazed.'' Castro, repeatedly pointing his forefinger to the ceiling, cited soaring prices of copper, aluminum, gold and sugar, saying "we don't know the consequences of all that because no one knows the chaos that this has turned into."

Dressed in a gray suit with red tie, Castro also took advantage of the meeting to embrace Venezuela as an important source of the region's oil.

..."We are here in the presence of powerful producers of commodities globally," Castro said as he pointed to Chavez, whose country is the world's fifth-largest oil exporter.

...The Cuban leader, who rose to power through a peasant revolution that ousted U.S.-backed Gen. Fulgencio Batista in 1959, also said the dollar is losing value. He said China, which has almost $1 trillion in international reserves, should attempt to get rid of some of its holdings in dollars.

"No one wants to keep dollars now because it is now just paper," Castro said. 'It's only paper."

...The meeting was the first attended by Venezuela as a full member of the Mercosur free-trade group. Castro thanked Venezuela's support, including the daily sale of about 100,000 barrels of crude at preferential terms, which is "greatly aiding" the Cuban economy.

^---(from url)---^

When oil agreements and energy factoring so prominently, Casto's short list of items with soaring prices -- "copper, aluminum, gold and sugar" -- was a very interesting choice. I mean, how often do you usually associate Castro and gold together in the same thought? But then again, he did proceed to make a definite point with the careful observation and reiteration that the U.S. dollar was "now just paper... only paper."

The world is in the process of transistioning out of the current dollar-centric state of affairs in which the international monetary system has unblinkingly absorbed the U.S. paper dollars (and IOUs of same) as its primary reserve asset, as if they were somehow "good as gold". Regardless of your thoughts on Castro's political ideologies, he is certainly not alone in the observation that they are not.


TownCrierGold Rises in London as Prices at Three-Week Low Spur Buyers#1461427/25/06; 11:29:29

July 25 (Bloomberg) -- Gold rose for the first day in four in London, buoyed by jewelers and other industrial consumers of the metal taking advantage of prices at their lowest in three weeks to increase inventory.

Wolfgang Wrzesniok-Rossbach, head of sales and marketing at Heraeus Metallhandels GmbH in Hanau, Germany: "There is bargain hunting."

^---(from url)---^

It might embolden your own course of action to know that the pros are not missing the opportunity to stock up on inventory during the remaining days of the seasonal doldrums.

Call USAGOLD-Centennial, and you, too, can prudently take steps toward topping off your vault.



TownCrierBank manages gold as agent of Treasury#1461437/25/06; 11:38:13

BoE letter to the Financial Times:

July 25 2006

Sir, The starting point for Professor Nicos Devletoglou's letter on gold sales (July 22) is incorrect. The UK reserves, including gold, are held by HM Treasury and are managed by the Bank of England as the Treasury's agent. HM Treasury decides on any changes in the composition of the reserves.

Peter Rodgers,
Director of Communications,
Bank of England

^---(from url)---^

Naturally. That's why Chancellor of Exchequer Gordon Brown has been the target for most of the flak from opponents of the sales rather than then BoE Governor Eddie George (or successor M. King).

Does anyone have a copy of the referenced July 22nd article? What did Devletoglou's letter attempt to convey?


GoldiloxCastro Economic Warning#1461447/25/06; 12:30:27

@ TC,

Stand-alone, it's easy to dismiss Fidel's statements as political rhetoric. Collectively lumped in with similar viewpoints from conservative financial sources (see my Rob Kirby post this morning), it heralds a growing consensus on the fate of the Sawbuck!

From a financial perspective, WWIII (the Resource War) is well under way, with early salvos fired by the Islamic Gold Dinar, Oil Patch Euro schemes, and new trade alliances.

Hopefully, we can keep the usage of physical weapons to a minimum, so the most critical industry does not become "civilization rebuilding".

968Consolidated financial statement of the Eurosystem as at 21 July 2006#1461457/25/06; 12:45:48

To reduce Randy's workload, I will present this weeks financial statement of the Eurosystem.

Gold : 175151 billion euros
Forex : 152500 billion euros

By consequence, the ECB holds approximately 15% more goldreserves than foreign exchange reserves.

GoldiloxEuro reserves#1461467/25/06; 13:11:44

@ 968,

Also by "consequence", The EU gold reserve numbers probably reflect a smaller or equal volume of gold to the last report, with the value growth all reflected in rising "prices". Thanks to our forum and extra-forum education, most of us understand this as simply an "Orwellian term" for currency inflation.

TownCrier968, THANKS for posting the latest Eurosystem reserves#1461477/25/06; 14:15:36

Not to completely dismiss Goldi's more cynical interpretation that emphasizes inflation, however, we know (more significantly to a gold investor) what these numbers truly show us -- especially when taken in totality with the historical seven-and-a-half years evolution of the Eurosystem's reserve postion of both gold and foreign currencies. They provide a demonstration of what it looks like when a currency system is in the process of weaning itself off of a dollar-centric reserve paradigm.

At the launch of the euro and ECB/eurosystem in January 1999, the gold holdings were valued only at 99.6 billion euro while the net position in foreign currency was a more massive 227.4 billion euro in value.

Compare those starting points to the latest figures you've posted in which the value present in their gold holdings ( in spite of (or rather facilitated by) the ongoing program of gold sales/reallocations) has been coaxed up to 175.2 billion euro whereas the value of the net position in foreign currency has been allowed to fade to 152.5 billion euro.

Clearly, when looking at this remarkably instructive history, the direction of the transition is unmistakable -- away from foreign currency and toward the value to be found in gold.

You, too, can use this knowledge to walk comfortably in the footsteps of giants. Choose gold as your primary reserve asset -- choose gold as your form of savings.

Call USAGOLD-Centennial for professional assistance and exceptionally buyer-friendly prices.


TownCrierWorld economy could drown in a flood of cheap cash#1461487/25/06; 15:14:33

(Reuters) Frankfurt -- Call it the weapon of financial destruction.

There is so much cheap financing sloshing around the global economy, despite simultaneous interest rate tightening at the world's three major central banks, that some analysts warn that financial bubbles are bound to keep building.

..."Monetary authorities have lost control of money," said Brian Reading, director at Lombard Street Research, a London macroeconomic forecasting company in a research note. His statement is provocative, and few economists are willing to go quite that far.

...Yet Claudio Borio, head of research at the Bank for International Settlements, estimates that global liquidity conditions remain very generous.

These still-generous financial conditions leave a number of economists worried the global liquidity boom is feeding a new asset-price bubble in real estate, and that just like the high-technology bubble of 1999-2000, it could end in a nasty financial meltdown.

^---(from url)---^

Choose gold... because monetary officials, with respect to the needs of commercial banking and the economy in general, strive at all costs to prevent us from lapsing into deflationary environment, and thus always choose to err on the side of inflation. That's largely why the currencies of our various national monetary/financial systems have over our long human history evolved resolutely toward fiat from specie.

Bullion banking is the last physically-attached remnant of the old specie-standard systems. And as a similar shift of this sector into non-deflationary fiat gold-deliverables renders that sector completely pointless, this network of bankers sleep less easily than any other on account of the tightrope they must walk. Striving not to extend too far, they lean toward paperizing (inflating) the gold supply -- effectively creating "fiat gold" by the standard tricks of accounting. But if their customers spook at the excess, the bankers have precious little latitude to lean back, lest the plunge is preciptated in the form of a system-ending bankrun, occurring in the form of an all-out dash for what little physical metal there is available by all manner of thinking people.


TownCrierGarcia looks to end Peru's love affair with dollar#1461497/25/06; 15:35:58

LIMA, Peru, July 25 (Reuters) - Like most Peruvians, Enrique Malca has a double life when it comes to money: one in dollars and another in soles, the result of economic crises that have generated a deep distrust of the local currency.

...[It] is one of the biggest challenges for President-elect Alan Garcia, who takes office on Friday, 16 years after his first stint as president ended.

"As soon as I get my salary, I always buy dollars and put them in the bank because I don't trust our money," said Malca, a bellboy who works at a five-star hotel in Lima.

More than 55 percent of commercial bank deposits are held in dollars, while goods and services ranging from airline tickets to cable television bills are charged in dollars. Supermarkets and even illegal street sellers accept dollars.

The hyperinflation and economic collapse of Garcia's first term between 1985-1990 are the main causes of the Peru's suspicion of its currency. Garcia's new approach to modernizing the economy underscores his desire to atone for the past and rewrite his legacy.

At the height of the Andean nation's economic crisis under Garcia, a bag of bread cost 150,000 intis, the legal tender that was ditched in 1990 for the nuevo sol, used today.

Peru's dependence on the U.S. dollar remains a major weakness in the economy, leaving it vulnerable to exchange rate fluctuations that can push up prices and stoke inflation.

Switching into soles would send a message to investors that Peru's currency is truly stable and credible, while helping to develop local capital markets that give companies access to funds and help them expand and create jobs.

"If people keep thinking in dollars, that makes the process of consolidating the strength of our economy so much slower."

According to the latest figures to June, loans in dollars made by banks are beginning to fall...

"Dedollarization has been a very slow process. But we're making progress, we're on the right track," said Peru Central Bank President Oscar Dancourt, who expects the economy will cut its dollarization rate by half over the next 10 years.

Peru's central bank has taken the lead in trying to help change mentalities...

Meanwhile, the sol has strengthened 5 percent this year against the dollar, making it a more attractive currency.

Still, one barrier is that Peruvians have yet to see the benefits of a stable economy that grew 6.6 percent last year, still believing the sol could collapse at any moment....

^---(from url)---^

Bravo all around. The facilitaiton of the monetary transition also plays well into the prevailing mentality of Peruvians who have a healthy fear/awareness that their currency "could collapse at any moment" -- they ought to choose gold metal as the safe-harbor form of their savings, thus would their purchasing power be most optimally protected against the fate of both the dollar and the sol.

It is very nearly that simple. All that a person ever really needed to know to safely navigate the stormy monetary scene is easy enough to learn in kindergarten. Use the domestic currency for spendings and borrowings, use gold for savings.


USAGOLD Daily Market ReportPage Update!#1461507/25/06; 16:30:53">
The Daily Gold Market Report has been updated.

If you are considering investments in gold we invite you to">request our free introductory information packet detailing the products and services offered by USAGOLD ~ Centennial Precious Metals. We welcome your inquiry and look forward to working with you.

TUESDAY Market Excerpts

Gold up after volatile session

July 25 (from MarketWatch) -- Gold futures rose Tuesday in very choppy trading, as investors eyed violence in the Middle East, declining energy prices and the rising dollar.

James Moore of said that trading volatility will likely increase as "traders take time off for summer vacations, reducing liquidity and leaving the market more vulnerable to sharp swings in either direction."

The August contract closed up $4.80 at $618.00 on the New York Mercantile Exchange.

"It [trade] has been volatile due to thin conditions as many participants are simply out on holiday. The $15 range is not very large, but each news item and large trade (buy or sell) have an immediate effect," said Kitco's analyst Jon Nadler.

"Gold bullion regained some of the ground it lost on Monday after it became apparent that the U.S. will let Israel sort out the Hezbollah problem on its own timetable," Nadler said.

Overnight, violence in the Middle East continued to take lives, as U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice met Tuesday with Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, who said that his government was resolute about continuing its fight against Hezbollah, according to media reports.

The fighting broke out on July 12 after Hezbollah militants kidnapped two Israeli soldiers. Since fighting started, more than 380 Lebanese citizens, mostly civilians, have been killed.

On Monday, in a surprise visit to battered Beirut, Rice met with Lebanese Prime Minister Fuad Saniora who told her that Israel is destroying his country. The country's infrastructure as well as many towns in southern Lebanon and the capital Beirut have been heavily bombarded.

The Bush administration has supported the Israeli military campaign against Lebanon, saying that the root cause of the violence -- the domination by Hezbollah of southern Lebanon -- has to be resolved before a cease-fire can be enforced.

Both President Bush and Rice have opposed calls for an immediate cease-fire.

---(see url for full news, 24-hr newswire)---

BRIANSHORT TERM BOTTOM?#1461517/25/06; 16:52:08


TownCrierCustoms duty on gold may be lifted#1461527/25/06; 16:52:39

MANAMA: Bahrain's jewellers are being canvassed on whether to lift customs duty on all gold products entering the country from other GCC states.

A questionnaire is being sent out seeking their views on various trade issues...

..."The exemption of customs duty is a possibility, but we wish to take the trade into confidence before we make an official representation to the government," said Dr Tahoo.

There is no doubt trade would flourish in a duty-free market, he said.

..."When gold is first imported, customs duty is charged, but when it is re-imported after being sent out (for exhibitions or for crafting elsewhere), customs duty is charged again," he said.

This, several traders pointed out, is not correct.

"Their contention is that duty, if at all, should be charged only once. After all, it is Bahrain's gold, so why should the duty be paid a second time? " said Dr Tahoo.

"Officials have indicated there will be a lot of thought before a final decision is taken on several important issues concerning the trade," said Mr Al Shammary, who is also head of the joint committee between the Bahrain Chamber of Commerce and Industry and the Customs and Ports Directorate.

"Jewellers have to, however, decide on their own what they wish to get."

^---(from url)---^

In addition to jewelers, who are, admittedly, the prevalent group, the solicitations of opinion should also encompass anything else that passes for a gold-investment sector.

As gold is a fungible item, the "re-import problem" (excessive taxation) of Bahrain-stamped gold is fundamentally just a thin shade apart from the back-and-forth flow of quantities of gold REGARDLESS of the particular refinery or jeweler's hallmark.

Hope they arrive at the philosophically proper outcome and follow in the footsteps of the Eurosystem's VAT-free policy for interstate flow of shiny gold investment products.


TownCrierRubin, Summers balk at time-out call on free trade#1461537/25/06; 17:15:18

WASHINGTON, July 25 (Reuters) - Former Treasury Secretaries Robert Rubin and Larry Summers on Tuesday urged new ways to shield Americans from the ill effects of globalization but balked at growing calls for the United States to back away from free trade.

...The seminar was organized by Brookings-based The Hamilton Project -- a program launched earlier this year by top economic figures from the Democratic Party and widely seen as vehicle for debating a new economic policy manifesto.

Speaking a day after the Doha round of world trade talks collapsed, Rubin and Summers -- who between them held the Treasury top spot from 1995 to 2000 under President Bill Clinton -- said trade deals were not at the root of the latest wave of globalization and protectionism would not slow it.

Summers, now a Harvard professor ... said it was wrong to blame rising U.S. job insecurity and income inequality on trade agreements per se.

Growing concern about the impact of trade liberalization on U.S. jobs and wage levels has caused many Democratic congressmen to turn skeptical of more free-trade agreements in recent years and the protectionist mood has swelled on Capital Hill.

But Rubin, now chairman of the executive committee at Citigroup, dismissed an idea Democrats should veto trade agreements or call a "time-out" on trade liberalization...

Summers added the focus of trade debate was understandably on jobs lost or wages depressed, but the consumer benefits from free trade -- where import prices and consumer goods prices are kept low or falling -- were "underemphasized."

He said, policies aimed at stalling or reversing trade agreements simply because of the employment effects of globalization at large could be disastrous.

^---(from url)---^

Two scenarios come to mind.


the situation is too complex to be boiled down into distinctly partisan-platform politics, OR...

the situation is too simplistic to avail itself of a separation into two distinct partisan-serving political solutions.

On the body of evidence, it seems unnecessary to choose one or the other because the most apparent situation is one in which most of the politicos are simply casting about blindly with self-serving pandering while utterly disinterested in the fundamentals.


FlatlinerMOON WITH HYDROCARBON LAKES#1461547/25/06; 17:24:12®ion=4

25.7.2006. 15:29:04
Scientists say they have found the first widespread evidence of giant hydrocarbon lakes on the surface of Saturn's planet-size moon Titan.

The cluster of hydrocarbon lakes was spotted near Titan's frigid north pole during a weekend overflight by the international Cassini spacecraft, which flew within 950km of the moon.

Researchers from the University of Arizona in the US counted about a dozen lakes ranging from 10 kilometres to 100 kilometres wide.

Some lakes, which appeared as dark patches in radar images, were connected by channels while others had tributaries flowing into them.

Several were dried up, but the ones that contained liquid were most likely a mix of methane and ethane.

Titan is one of two moons in the solar system known to possess a significant atmosphere similar to primordial Earth.

But scientists have long puzzled over the source of its hazy atmosphere rich in nitrogen and methane.

Scientists believe methane gas breaks up in Titan's atmosphere and forms smog clouds that then rain methane down to the surface.

But the source of methane inside the moon, which is releasing the gas into the atmosphere is still unknown.

Flatliner - Ah, but of course, the source is still unknown. After having read Black Gold Stranglehold, I can't help but wonder what the real source is for all that gas. And, if gas is found on other planets, could it be that the gas found on this planet has a similar source? When I see science like this, it makes me wonder what drives the energy monopoly on this planet.

FlatlinerIt's never worded like this in the US press#1461557/25/06; 17:32:52

The king has coupled his aid promises with unusually forthright comments about the crisis.

"Saudi Arabia warns everybody that if the peace option fails because of Israeli arrogance, there will be no other option but war," he was quoted as saying by state media.

Saudi Arabia and Egypt have called for an immediate halt to the Israeli offensive but have also blamed Hezbollah for starting the fighting.

Flatliner – it seems to me that oil is traded for security. Where is the security?

QSaudi King fears full-scale Middle East war#1461567/25/06; 20:01:09,,30000-1228757,00.html

seems like it might have some impact on gold and oil.

Not to mention deliberately targetted UN observers.

QAsteroid mining#1461577/25/06; 20:17:19

Riches in the Sky

To get an idea of just how much wealth is to be had from asteroids, one can examine 3554 Amun, a mile wide lump of iron, nickel, cobalt, platinum, and other metals that has an orbit closely resembling that of Earth's. Though it is one of the smallest known metallic asteroids, 3554 Amun contains thirty times as much metal as has ever been mined by human beings in the history of Earth. It's value, at current prices and if mined slowly to keep commodity prices level, is estimated to be 20 trillion dollars.

SundeckMining asteroids?#1461587/26/06; 00:00:44

@Q ref #146157

Yes, Sir Q, not such a crazy idea as one might imagine...

Construct a "space elevator" (see link) with high tensile carbon nanotube material and then nudge the chosen near-earth-orbit asteroid close to the docking bay (counterweight at the end of the earth-tether), don your space-suit, gather up your pick and shovel and Bingo! Start shovelling super rich ore into the elevator.

Who knows, might happen sooner than you think...unless homo (un)sapiens carelessly eradicates himself (or his technological abilities) in resource wars here on terra firma before the dream can be realised.

The space elevator is an exciting concept with many, many applications...

Bring on JFK Mk. II and set it as a challenge "before the decade is out"...

Ohh for some quality global leadership...



otish mountainSimulicra#1461597/26/06; 00:31:19

Don't post much but thought I would share a search I experienced.
USA Gold's News Group's latest Email has a linked article titled "Will the Federal Reserve create the new socialist man". (Thank MK) Within this essay is an additional link which is well worth a read (See above link)titled "Hyperinflation and Hyperreality".Also a good read.
Anyway this word "simulicra" is mentioned and it sticks with me but I can't remember where I read it so I do a search.

otish mountainSimulicrum#1461607/26/06; 00:42:32

Anyway I Google simulcra out f desperation and ran across this link. Qbart may lack in other areas but has a firm understanding on the subject of money. Skip to 4th paragraph May 17th 2005.

Hope I'm not to far off forum rules here.

SundeckThe nature of money...and the "simulacrum".#1461617/26/06; 05:25:03

@otish mountain ref #146160

"Simulacrum"...a Latin word originally meaning a material object representing something. (Wikipedia)

Awww...I think qdarthebarbarian (see link) is hyperventilating a little...

Suppose you and I are both "men of worth"...we both have all the measures of wealth, such as property, professional ability, earning capacity, a sizeable bank balance and many outstanding credits owing to us, gold in possession of proven amount, few and small outstanding liabilities, etc... Would it not be reasonable for our wealth to be expressed in some numeraire (dollars, say) and conveyed via the digital media to an agent who, acting upon our separate instructions, debits and credits the record of our net worth accordingly? ...without the need for either of us to move tangible goods (or "intangible" services) around?

I agree with Sir/Madam qdarthebarbarian, that it all seems a little "ethereal", but the effects are nonetheless slated home in tangible form! You better believe it! Just try overspending, using your house as collateral, and wait around for the tangible effects as the bank forecloses on your mortgage.

In nearly all respects, the abstract set of binary digits, spinning around on some magnetic disc in a remote data-system, or whizzing along a copper wire as complementary magnetic and electric fields, is no more and no less abstract than a green slip of paper carrying the likeness of some stodgy old goof, long since departed, and the words "In God we Trust".

Both "forms" represent intermediary expressions of "worth" adopted entirely because of convenience and their recognised social benefits.

That is not to say, however, that the "intermediary" expression of "net worth" cannot be rorted in sundry ways; and therein lies the it paper notes or binary bits... Each intermediary, no doubt, has its own underlying "rortability", whereby Sundeck's worth may be misrepresented (a small matter) or, much more seriously, the net worth of his uncle "Sam" may be grotesquely distorted...

Question: Coins and notes are "simulacra" (latin plural??). What is the simulacrum of a digital bank balance or statement of worth? Or of a digital transmission of net worth from one place to another? I fear they don't exist...but times nove on, as do modes of transport and abstract representation...

Good one, Sir otish mountain, an interesting subject...take care.



geProspects of the dollar as oil currency #1461627/26/06; 10:01:25

Former head of the Central Bank Viktor Gerashchenko, who now chairs the Yukos Board of Directors, said: "If you trade in oil, stick to the dollar. I believe that in the next ten years nobody will quote oil in Euros, rubles, yuan, or anything else. The price is going to be set in dollars no matter what, especially considering the size of the U.S. economy. Only China may catch up."...The reform of the world financial institutions - the IMF and the IBRD - will soon be completed. Many analysts describe it as a reform of the Bretton Woods system of monetary management that will concentrate on streamlining the system of oil price formation....The dollar monopoly no longer seems unassailable. If oil starts to be traded in other currencies, the dollar's dominance will end.
... a convoluted and highly elastic article... what is the ongoing reform of Bretton Woods, by the way....

GoldiloxYukos' Statement#1461637/26/06; 10:33:16


I wonder if this has anything to do with the CEO resigning and Yukos finally being disassembled in bankruptcy court, or if it's meant to recruit western powers to pressure the Russian court to reevaluate the reorg plan?

From what I've read, the decision is close, and Yukos may soon be "history".

contrarianAir Conditioners--Scrap Metal#1461647/26/06; 11:01:52,8599,1217948,00.html

Just a anecdotal note to confirm we're still in a bull market for metals. Recently, I tried to dispose of an air conditioner the right way, scheduling an appoiontment to put it out on the curb for the sanitation people to remove the freon. But within 12 hours, before the sanitation people could get to it, it was stripped of its copper coils (and freon probably released to the atmosphere). But I'm not the only one. You can see skeletons of discarded air conditioners all over the place on garbage pickup day, copper and metal innards removed. They might leave the fan and motor but that's about it. There ain't no business like Metal Business!
USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.FREE Gold Information Packet...#1461657/26/06; 11:37:27

TopazLatin.#1461667/26/06; 11:46:19

As with Gold, poor old Latin succumbed to the fact that it was TOO clear and concise for a world hell-bent on obfuscation.

But lo! ..what's this. The Finns intend to resurrect Latin during their EU Presidency. I'll be blowed!

Gold and Latin ...The empire, Virgil ...bring it on! ..guess I'll have to dust off the old Cathicism (sp) ...wonder if the Catholic Church might also be considering a return to Latin for the Mass?

Under current international circumstances I'd think it a good move.

USAGOLD Daily Market ReportPage Update!#1461677/26/06; 13:51:03">
The Daily Gold Market Report has been updated.

If you are considering investments in gold we invite you to">request our free introductory information packet detailing the products and services offered by USAGOLD ~ Centennial Precious Metals. We welcome your inquiry and look forward to working with you.

WEDNESDAY Market Excerpts

Gold extends winning streak

July 26 (from MarketWatch) -- Gold futures surged Wednesday as the dollar dropped against major currencies and as international talks on the Mideast conflict dead-ended with the U.S. rejecting calls for an immediate cease-fire.

The August contract ended up $3.90 at $621.90 an ounce on the New York Mercantile Exchange.

The downward trend in the dollar was the main reason for gold's positive close, said Charles Nedoss, senior account manager at Peak Trading Group in Chicago. "I don't think things are getting any better in the Middle East," Nedoss added. He said that gold will experience resistance around $627, but if the Mideast situation continues to worsen and the dollar keeps falling, then gold might trade higher for the rest of the week.

Peter Grandich, editor of the Grandich Letter, said there appears to be a heavy "short" presence in gold, "based on the fact that gold has been hit hard on several occasions of late, shortly after the second London fix, when European physical buying is over.

"I believe these sellers are exhausting themselves and a short squeeze is near," Grandich said.

The dollar dropped against major currencies Wednesday after the Federal Reserve's Beige Book report said upward pressure from energy and other inputs is persisting despite reports of a slowdown in the U.S. economy.

On Wednesday, safe-haven demand for gold was boosted after an international conference failed to produce a breakthrough in the two-week deadly conflict between Israel and Lebanon. In Rome, at an international crisis conference on the Mideast conflict, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice dashed hopes for peace by rejecting calls for an immediate ceasefire, according to media reports.

The Bush administration has supported the Israeli military campaign and insisted that the root cause of the violence -- the domination of southern Lebanon by Hezbollah -- has to be resolved before a cease-fire can be enforced.

Rice's firm position clashed with that of U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan, who says an international force to patrol southern Lebanon is critical to peace, according to media reports.

---(see url for full news, 24-hr newswire)---

atomicmanscrap metal#1461687/26/06; 17:45:48

Long time lurker--first post----
I have been a scrap metal dealer for 35 years. I have never seen a year like 2006! It is a "shark feeding frenzy". We can't keep enough cash daily to buy metals. I buy everything from steel to platinum-- mostly copper now. Two reasons I believe- people are attracted to these high prices and some customers, who have low paying jobs, need the extra money for gas and other necessities. I live in E. Tn. and alot of middle class and lowere are having a hard time surviving. I, too, have had over $10k stolen this year. WE caught them ourselves a week later and they are now serving time. These were druggies looking for coke money.. BTW, meth is out of control here. The Oak Ridge police busted 52 meth labs in the city limits last year. A town 0f 25,000 and probably 1200 local, state, Fed, and private security/law oficers due to the DOE facilities here.
I am a continual buyer of gold/silver and have been reading much about the confiscation of the 30's.
Bush likes executive orders and, in a second, would declare gold/silver stragetic metals (if his banker buddies wanted), and haul them in.
Question ---would scrap dealers, in these metals, be exempt?

The Invisible HandFreegold vs. the dictatorial dollar regime#1461697/26/06; 18:40:10

Socialism, aka communism, collapsed after 70 years.

The transition OUT of dollar dominance is not happening all at once because the power of the GLOBAL dollar capitalism is very big.

The dollar dominance has nothing to do with democracy.,,1830180,00.html
At the heart of the Lebanon crisis lie the lethal mistakes of George Bush
Instead of pursuing a Middle East peace deal, the White House's big idea has been to bomb people into democracy
Jonathan Freedland
Wednesday July 26, 2006
The Guardian

Anglo-American unilateralism will only give the Middle-East as much democracy as it (the former) wants. Will it be able to submit 1.2 billion Muslims?

Can the dictatorial dollar regime forever continue to rape the price of gold for its own benefit?

Will all the subjects of this regime continue to accommodate the dictators?

Will the EU again participate in the breaking-up, bombarding of Another Yugoslavia?

FREEGOLD is the structural avenue to counter the senile dictators and their dollar regime.

GOLD FINGERDID YOU GET ANY???#1461707/26/06; 19:11:03

Hello and greetings from a power starving nation!


If so raise your shinny nuggets to a toast! I did pick up some of the NEW PRECIOUS stuff today and feel proud for doing so.

Now back on this GOLD CONFISCATION CRAP..... to quote from Sir atomicman

"Bush likes executive orders and, in a second, would declare gold/silver strategic metals (if his banker buddies wanted), and haul them in."

I have a pile growing and it's looking lovely in my treasure chest that no PIRATE US GOVERNMENT will ever get.

They can call in all they want but it's mine. Also in the name of national security is rubbish!

What security?

I think that when they need something political to happen they will let another...BAD EVENT happen. It's all very clear! What's mine will stay mine and they can shove the laws to Baghdad!


ToolieConfiscation#1461717/26/06; 19:54:59

It may well come to that. As our economy is transformed to suit the desires of the financial interests, many more people will have their livelihoods destroyed. For me the choice is easy, my trade is gone. Waiting for the blowback from the ill-conceived power grabs, and the recognition that there are limits to what a superpower can accomplish, is how I mark the days. Why bother trying to build anything, when it can be destroyed so easily?

If you think that you can buy yourself some temporary security by cooperating with confiscation – then cooperate. As for me I unfortunately lost my gold while going to bury some guns, the canoe rolled over.

@atomicman: give a shout across the hill to my kin in Middlesboro KY. , and welcome.

Ten BearsQuack Doctors in the House#1461727/26/06; 19:58:50

by Jim Willie CB

Does the USFed see the same picture? Do they even rely upon the same faulty statistics disseminated like propaganda to the sheeple masses? Does the USFed use "double booking" on their analytic side, with one set for a bonafide snapshot of reality and another handed down from USGovt agencies like promotional material? Methinks possibly yes. In my always suspicious view, both their ongoing methods and their prevailing motives are very much to remain hidden. Tragically, the USFed does not realize that the biggest problem, the biggest risk, is the USFed itself. Ever since the US Federal Reserve has denied the US Congress critical information, owed from its contractual obligations, we have entered a new era. What Fed Governors tell the public might differ markedly from what they discuss in unofficial meetings. National security has become an issue, since gold is missing from our national treasure, and our USDollar currency is therefore rendered vulnerable

We certainly know of the USFed failure in its officially stated charter, to maintain stable prices and to further maximum employment. The perverse actual charter (the authentic world of practicality) is a grand departure, many-fold, more like:......(one of several).. to command and control the corruption of the economics educational process on a nationwide basis, which has led to an entire generation of badly trained institutional economists sitting atop a mushroom like toads, who now serve eagerly as "yes men" sycophants confirming heretical policy.

Hardly a shred of truth lies in official statistics, especially those related to price inflation and adjustments to price inflation. In such a climate of deceit, it is impossible to have effective monetary and economic policy when guided by faulty statistics.

USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.TenBears. . .Bravo, Jim Wille. . .As it appeared beginning of the week at the USAGOLD NewsGroup#1461747/26/06; 20:47:46

We invite anyone wishing to join the USAGOLD NewsGroup to go to the link above. All are welcome!

Stephen S. Roach, Newsweek, 7/24/06

"This is a global problem. American consumers have tapped their asset bubbles -- first equities and now property -- and have taken income-based personal savings rates into negative territory for the first time since 1933. Lacking in domestic savings, the United States has to import savings from abroad -- and run massive current account and trade deficits to attract the capital. By ignoring asset bubbles and fixating on the CPI, central banks have spawned huge and dangerous global imbalances. That's where it could come full circle. America can't afford to have the Fed slip up right now. The European Central Bank is sending a clearer signal of its intent, and markets were well prepared when the Bank of Japan finally ended its zero-interest-rate policy last week. With chairman Bernanke waffling, the relative credibility factor could swing away from the Fed. That could lead to a loss of confidence in dollar-based assets, with serious consequences for bonds and stocks."

USAGOLD comment: In this short essay, Morgan Stanley's Stephen Roach deals with 'inflation targeting' and its pitfalls. Although he makes some very good points, particularly with regard to the various asset bubbles, he misses a couple others of importance to investors.

One, how can you gear something as concrete as Fed monetary policy to a Consumer Price Index which is a fictional, convoluted and politicized number in the first place? Most Americans will tell you that the CPI does not reflect the real cost of living which is much higher and escalating rapidly. Wouldn't gearing monetary policy to this fictionally low number insure an ever rising inflation rate?

And, two, since the Labor Department's CPI has become highly politicized, wouldn't gearing policy to it compromise the Fed's long-standing claim of being immune to control by the executive branch of government?

When you begin to understand what inflation targeting really means, it makes a very strong case for gold ownership. Escalating inflation and currency depreciation under such a policy regime would remain a fact of life.

ArmageddonGold Confiscation in Canada? Gold and President Hillary Clinton?#1461757/26/06; 21:12:42

I was wondering if anyone knew if there had been any gold/silver confiscation in Canada before by the Canadian government?

Also, I think that Mike Kosares co-wrote a memoradum with one of the assertions that most governments around the world probably won't confiscate "rare gold collector's coins". Most governments around the world are run by men. However, if Hillary Clinton gets elected president in 2008 amid a severe economic crisis I was wondering if she would be inclined to confiscate gold? I have noticed that most people that collect gold coins/comics/stamps are males and thus a male president would realize what a grave offense it is to confiscate another man's coin collection. If a female president takes power I was wondering if she would be more likely to confiscate the "collector's coins" as well as gold coins in general. I think the answer is yes but I would like to hear other opinions.


by Antal E. Fekete,


An omniscient and omnipotent Fed could helicopter-drop just the right amount of Federal Reserve notes, when needed, where needed, for the smooth functioning of the economy. They tried that approach in Bolshevist Russia, with results only too well-known. The experiment was discontinued in Russia's 'Evil Empire' in 1990. Now they try it again in the U.S. and its very own Evil Empire. As Benjamin Franklin has said, experience runs an expensive school, but fools will learn in no other.

Armageddon@AtomicMan - Scrap Metal Business and Gold Confiscation#1461777/26/06; 21:32:57

Well based on the last confiscation act I believe that it said that businesses were allowed to keep gold/silver in quantities that were needed for business. I think you probably should grab an actual copy off the net yourself since this directly relates to your business, I am just reciting this from memory.

The United States is in worse shape now then in the great depression if you look at the trade deficit, federal budget deficit, domestic manufacturing, etc. Since you are a scrap metals dealer with large holding of basic metals and gold you actually might be a big target of government confiscation if the economy goes in the tank like in Weimar Germany and a gold backed currency is needed to stop hyperinflation. The government would first go to big sources of gold/silver/base metals then perhaps go to confiscation of private individuals gold/silver if more gold/silver/base metals are needed to support a new dollar. I don't think politicians like the idea of confiscatiing people's wedding rings and jewelry because of the potential backlash.

GOLD FINGERRRRRR@Armageddon #1461787/26/06; 21:33:57

Mis. Clinton won't win.

And is she dose and ever decides to confiscate my possessions I will fight to get her and her crooked buddies out of office.

Better yet, why not start now.

Do you all realize how the rich have gotten so rich with all the tax benefits and extended benefits?

We allow foreign funds to finance their tax cuts enabling them to gain more...dollars that is. This was a quote I heard from the Former Pres. Clinton himself.

Why not just make it fair for Sh*t sake and stop yanking everyone around. I may be a liberal, But I am not stupid to vote in Hilleary.

Why do they (congress and senate) continue to give them selves full benefits and pay increases and more fricking perks??

If they really had to make it like us small business people I think they would shrivel up and melt away.

Reduce spending. Stop perks, Smaller government and decrease waist! Now how can I be a liberal with this mentality. I think GOLD FINGER shall run for the Presidency and talk some real words!! No more political correctness here!!

Armageddon@Gold Finger#1461797/26/06; 22:31:29

I am thinking about getting some bronze paint and applying for permanent resident status in Canada just in case Mrs. Clinton does become president and starts eyeing gold collector coins as a way out of a financial crisis.
TitanRe: Confiscation#1461807/26/06; 22:54:12

Is it as simple as hiding your gold so they can't get it (not having it in bank safe deposit boxes that you might not be able to get to if the banks were ordered closed, etc.)? First there would be confiscation, then wouldn't the gov't make it illegal for individuals to buy/sell gold? If so, it wouldn't really matter if they got your gold or not. You can keep it, but it won't be "worth" anything--or at least you wouldn't be able to sell any of it if it was illegal to do so. (Maybe you could on the black market.) But for all intents and purposes, if it's illegal to own and you're holding some, you can only hope that someday the law would change again (like it did before), and THEN you could sell some if you needed to.

Am I seeing this correctly?

FlatlinerWhere is this all leading?#1461817/26/06; 23:29:44

The more I learn about economics, the stronger my belief that we will not see gold confiscated by the government (any government). I believe that this point of view is hidden in plan sight.

Look at central banks around the world. They have put gold on reserve. Does anyone know what this really means? Seriously, really think about it. Another way of thinking about this is, would you buy a business in a town that you knew people would be banned from? No. Rather, you'd buy a business in a boom town! Banks are not stupid; they know where to buy their business. The gold on reserve in all the banks around the world gets its value through transactions. It must be traded. The MTM concept requires it. It must be treated as money in a local and international way in order for currencies to be measured against it.

If gold is called in, it will not trade. If it doesn't trade what value does it have? Banks around the world will not give up this value – and – gold has never lost value to banks, ever.

If gold is called in and then directed to the correct sources, it would send the signal to the entire world that the US Dollar is completely worthless and they will all line up for gold. What will happen to the price of gold then? There isn't enough to go around. The *only* way debts could be settled would be by revaluing it at enormously high values and then giving out little tidbits of gold to all the countries that trade with the US. What will that do to the reserve on all the banks around the world? {you can smile here}

If gold is called in, we the people will only have FRNs to pay our taxes with – and those tax dollars will not have any value overseas. No one will accept them – international trade will die a sudden death.

No, gold will not be called in and the Fed will do everything in its power to discredit gold as long as it can. That will include maintaining the price of gold on world markets at or as near as possible to production costs. This is the only way the Fed can maintain any type of credibility to the dollar because in every other central bank around the world they have two types of reserve – gold and us dollars! If gold gains in value (specifically) against the US Dollar, the reserve of the bank drifts towards gold. All other central banks around the world (at least the big ones) have protected themselves in this way.

The US Empire stretches around the world and US Dollars are needed to maintain that empire. Dollars must have value and gold must be discredited. The government must keep printing dollars and it must hold the value of these dollars high so they will be accepted.

The threat that we all have to look out for is to what extent will the US Dollar system go to in order to protect its value? And, on the flip side, what extent will the rest of the world go to in order to get out from under the US Dollar system?

In the future, all economies will freely exchange gold based on a current market price in the local economy. All currency exported from an economy will be redeemable in either gold or any other of a million goods. At the same time, all governments around the world will continue to tax their citizens in currency rather then gold AND continue to inflate the currency (silent taxes through inflation).

Hold your savings in gold and trade in currency. Your holding of gold gives you the same level of insurance as all the other central banks around the world. Know that if gold is called in which the US, the demand will skyrocket around the world and gold will flee the US faster then it ever has with huge returns in foreign currencies.

My conclusion is that the damage is too great to call in gold. Hold gold with confidence.

melda laureTell me again how this would help the Government?#1461827/26/06; 23:58:27

One of the difficulties is that it wouldn't accomplish anything useful for the State this time around. It doesn't matter how difficult a hypothetical confiscation process might be, because there are not any positive consequences and several potential negative consequences.

In 1933, extra hard cash was useful to settle the US foreign account. It also was handy to halt all payment in specie so that local banks could be saved by issuing paper (and taking over the country in the process).

Now unless the POG is going into the BUHMILLION$/oz there is no way that a couple of tons will settle anything in any meaningful way: by that time the dollar will be toast, the hyperinflation will have arrived.

Furthermore, the present system can already print as much as it likes if saving the banking system is necessary.

In fact, (if one belives Antal Feteke's recent paper) a second 1933 might halt one of the only functioning market clearing mechanisms remaining in a crisis event. So, other than to issue special political bribes, (golden candy treats to the "special" people) there is nothing to be gained. Indeed, the paradox is that for the available publicly held metal to be able to balance trade, war materiel, or the existing imbalances, POG must go to such a high clearing price that it would effectively bring about the international repudiation of the dollar, or of political freedom. In the emerging model, currencies will have to mark AU reserves to market. Who would want to trade with a nation that not only steals its own citizen's property, but then lies about its reserves? Obviously, you wouldnt loan them money nor accept their paper, NOR BILLS DRAWN ON THEIR BANKS! Kill wall street and you kill the government. Such a silly move might make the US and its Wall Street an international pariah state much like North Korea is today.

Drilling deeper, as a rising price of oil renders an american lifestyle impractical on a national level, then stealing everybody's gold (a one-time event) makes little sense if it is to support a doomed Car-Economy.

Apres le deluge, the relative performance of currencies will depend on relative output and relative credit issue. The actual size of any nation's gold reserves has no relevance save as a marker; I only suggest this because in the classical gold standard era, very little actual gold flowed back and forth (Feteke) and I suspect that in the future, most national reserves will just sit there, (save on special occations) and will NOT be used to balance monthly trade figues.

Remeber that the power of fiat is to be able to inflate it at will; having to steal more gold in order to maintain some sort of reserve ratio is too burdensome when the alternative is to log on to the FED computer terminal and add a few zeros. The international community will not be convinced by such actions.

In closing, consider that numerous nations have suffered economic implosion in the years since 1933. Virtually none of them have repeated FDR's stunt. Certainly not at today's POG. Those are my basic thoughts off the cuff; others might conjour more exotic scenarios with Space Ships and Annunaki Clearing House space terminals, but I will save such tales for halloween.

Nothing less than a worldwide confiscation programme by first world nations would do; I leave the details of that orwellian scenario as an exercise, in any case, Europe and the East are not going there any time soon.

You need to worry more about the more common sort of thieves, Sir Titan, not the ones bearing search warrants. And your other thoughts are quite correct.

melda laureSell me your soul, and I'll let you keep the money.#1461837/27/06; 00:06:39

"The threat that we all have to look out for is to what extent will the US Dollar system go to in order to protect its value?"

And here Sir Flatliner makes a good point: those who have been following the story of the poor kid who cant get permission from his Judge or his Doctors to get an alternative cancer treatment have been witness to the lengths that the FDA and the AMA will go to protect their revenue. It is likely that very nasty options will be debated in an effort to "save social security" or other programs. There are many kinds of "taxes" and many kinds of "coercion" being practiced in these days. Gold can only be stolen once, but taxes and "regulations" bite day after day.

KnallgoldCanadian Mint goes ETF#1461847/27/06; 00:08:08

They are betraying their own product,bravo!I won't buy canadian coins anymore.

"However, the Canadian mint operates like a business, and it is constantly looking for new sources of revenue, he said. "We're looking at anything we could do that would make a >>>>>profit<<<<<"

How can they make a profit when the vehicle only tracks the Goldprice?

GOLD FINGERI feel better now!#1461857/27/06; 01:13:14

Sir Flatliner, you always have a special way of quieting ones nerves. Now I will not have to kick anyone's ass for taking my gold. You logically present things in a very noble way. Your comments are true and if we all take a big deep breath we can see how it is important to buy more gold. I am glad I did just the other day and I am on my way to buying MORE!



A shout out to you also Sir melda laure for your comments and soothing and eloquent way of presenting the facts!

Cheers to all GOLD BUGS!!

GoldiloxCanadian Mint#1461867/27/06; 01:16:15

@ Knallgold,

Why would such foolishness as ETFs threaten the value of a Maple Leaf?

I'm not afraid to buy the coin, but I'm not standing in line for the ETF!

The nice thing about bullion coins - unlike their papier de toilette, the face or insignia engraved on them makes very little difference in their value, if the gold content is reliable.

KnallgoldGoldilox#1461877/27/06; 06:56:13

All Gold ETF's threaten the (fiat) value of Gold coins.Why would a mint attack its Maple Leaf product with such an ETF.

I was just putting up a political protest (boykott).

ArcticfoxCrudele looking for more info. on PPT#1461887/27/06; 08:18:34

By John Crudele
New York Post
Thursday, July 27, 2006

Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke revealed that the secretive
Plunge Protection Team meets several times a year, but he dodged a
congressman's inquiries about what the group does and whether
minutes are kept of those meetings.

So the Post has filed a Freedom of Information Act request for those
minutes -- specifically for the meetings that likely occurred
immediately after the terrorist attacks in 2001.

I wrote about the Plunge Protection Team in a series of articles
earlier this month. Formally called the Working Group on Financial
Markets, it was formed in 1988 by President Reagan to advise Wall

Headed by the Secretary of the Treasury, it also has top regulators
and the chairman of the Fed as members.

But in addition to giving Wall Street advice, I suspect -- and
former White House adviser George Stephanopoulos seems to have
confirmed -- that the Plunge Protection team has morphed into
something more active.

And Wall Street firms may have been invited to join.

What's clear from answers to questions posed by Rep. Ron Paul, R-
Texas, is that new Fed chief Bernanke either doesn't know much about
the role of the working group or preferred not to discuss the

And, I think, it's time we found out a little more about an
organization that could afford some Wall Street firms an opportunity
to reap massive profits at the expense of ordinary investors.

Here's some of the exchange that occurred between Bernanke and Rep.
Paul last Thursday at the House Financial Committee hearings.

* * *

Rep. Paul: Good afternoon, Chairman Bernanke. I have a question
dealing with the Working Group on Financial Markets. I want to learn
more about that group and exactly what authority they have and what
they do.

Could you tell me, as a member of the group, how often they meet and
how often they have actions? And have they done something recently?
And are there reports sent out by this particular group?

Bernanke: Yes, congressman. The president's working group was
convened by the president, I believe, after the 1987 stock market
crash. It meets irregularly. I would guess about four or five times
a year. But I'm not exactly sure. And its PRIMARY function is
advisory, to prepare reports. I mentioned earlier that we've been
asked to prepare a report on the terrorism risk insurance. So that's
what we GENERALLY do.

Rep. Paul: In the media you'll find articles that will claim, at
least, that it's a lot more than advisory. You know, if there is a
stock market crash, that you literally have a lot of authority, you
know, to impose restrictions. And we're talking about many trillions
of dollars slushing around in all the financial markets. And this
involves the Treasury and, of course, the Fed as well as the SEC
(Securities & Exchange Commission) and the CFTC (Commodities Futures
Trading Commission) And the reason this came to my attention was
just recently there was an article that actually made a charge that
out of this group came a position that interfered with the price of
General Motors stock. Have you read that? Or do you know anything
about that?

Bernanke: No sir. I don't.

Rep. Paul: But back to the issue of meeting. You tell me it meets
irregularly. But are there minutes kept, or are there reports made
on this group?

Bernanke: I believe there are records kept by the staff. There are
staff, mostly from Treasury, but also from other agencies.

Rep. Paul: And they would be available to us in the committee?

Bernanke: I don't know. I'm sorry. I don't know.

* * *

Rep. Paul obviously doesn't have a reporter's knack for the follow-
up question, so here's what I would have asked next.

Crudele: Well, Mr. Bernanke, how about you find out? Someone who is
in your position should know if, as former White House adviser
George Stephanopoulos has claimed, the Working Group on Financial
Markets -- the Plunge Protection Team -- has the authority to
interfere with the free market for stocks. And we'd also like to
know who makes decision for the group, politicians or guys on Wall
Street. Don't misunderstand, Mr. Bernanke. I'm not saying what the
group is doing is wrong. But why should firms like Goldman Sachs --
from which two of the last four Treasury secretaries have come -- be
in a better position than anyone else who gambles in the stock

See, that's why I'll never be in Congress.


John Crudele is business columnist for the New York Post.

GoldiloxFOIA request#1461897/27/06; 08:39:47

@ arcticfox,

Leave it to CONgress to be so dumb as to look for evidence in the wrong meetings!

One would think the meeting PRIOR to 9/11 might reveal a lot more, but they shouldn't be stupid enough to put something like that in their minutes!

Chances are, with the growing use of "National Security" excuses, CONgress will be denied the FOIA request, anyway, as "insufficiently cleared" for the information.

They'll be stonewalled in the same fashion as they were by the SEC, who suggested publicly that a 10X increase of daily voume in those specific puts was "within normal fluctuations."

Nice try, though.

GoldiloxCorrection#1461907/27/06; 08:40:54

Oops, the Post, not Congress - I need some morning coffee! LOL
GoldiloxDivergence or my imagination?#1461917/27/06; 09:14:22

One of my active "stock trackers" watches the GLD and SLV ETF's. I noticed a few months back that GLD tracked PoG about 0.5% lower, but lately it's closer to 1.0% lower. Does anyone see this as a significant differential?

SLV, on the other hand, stays very close to PoS.

contrarianatomicman--scrap metal...There's No Business Like Metal Business!#1461927/27/06; 10:13:16

Atomicman--just a quick question, as I've been seeing stripped air conditioners on the curb all over town (as my neighbor mentioned this as well). How much can a person get for the copper and/or other metal in an average sized air conditioner, say 10,000 BTU? How much is it worth?
GoldiloxCopper: The new gold#1461937/27/06; 10:42:12,0,3549482.story?coll=ny-top-headlines

@atomicman and Contrarian,


The record price of copper -- which has reached a historic high this year after recently doubling -- is hitting some Long Island businesses and their customers hard.

It's also encouraging thieves and others looking to profit from scrap metal known in the building trades as mongo, police said.

Roger Botto, owner of Botto Brothers Plumbing and Heating in Hicksville, says that a year ago, a 10-foot piece of a particular type of copper pipe cost about $11 wholesale. The same pipe Wednesday costs roughly $28. "It's ridiculous, out of control," he said. "When it comes down to it, I have to pass that along to my customers." Botto estimates that the cost of copper has pushed up the average cost of one of his plumbing jobs 20 percent or more.

The reason for the increased value of copper and some other metals is record demand from China's booming industrial sector, according to Luke Popovich of the National Mining Association, an industry trade group.

Although large plumbing and wiring jobs are hardest hit, many people with small jobs requiring copper -- anything from a leaky sink to a new hot tub -- also bear the cost.

"Used to be for a small job, one little special fitting was like $5 or $8 and I wouldn't worry about it, the labor covered it," said Gary Yorke, owner of Pristine Plumbing and Heating in Bethpage. "Now the same thing is like $24 with labor. It's not something I can overlook."

With scrap copper fetching more than $2 a pound at scrap yards, thieves are also targeting construction sites and houses under renovation. According to Det. Kevin Smith of the Nassau County Police Department, there have been 14 thefts of copper reported since January, including one at a building which was robbed of $15,000 in copper wiring. "We're contacting scrap yards, looking for leads on people showing up with copper who aren't in the construction business," Smith said.


It looks like Cu is fetching more than milk money in Hicksville!

USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.You are invited to join the NewsGroup#1461947/27/06; 12:23:31">join the newsgroup
Noble1Divergence msg.#: 146191 #1461957/27/06; 12:38:29


Both of these funds pay their expenses by selling some of their physical metal holdings. Thereby continually reducing, over time, the amount of metal represented in the ownership of a share.

Silent WitnessCanadian Mint: ETF business #1461967/27/06; 12:49:50

I am speaking only from my flawed memory, but I am thinking that by offering this new way of investment that they can take advantage of the popularity of this new product, accumulate actual gold in their ownership and possession by charging a percentage in fees without sending up any red flags that would indicate that their central bank was accumulating physical gold. My understanding is that gold is purchased by these ETF's. I am presuming that this could be held "in house" so to speak as they have the facilities to safely store the metal rather than contracting storage to third parties in a different country. This model could also help to contain the price of gold on the market, especially if the tracking price as Sir Goldilox has mentioned is diverging "GLD tracked PoG about 0.5% lower, but lately it's closer to 1.0% lower." I think it would be significant especially as the price of spot gold goes higher.

What a business plan! Collect fees and accumulate physical gold in possession for the day it is needed. I am thinking we may see more of this by other central banks who may have been watching these types of offerings evolve
and analyzing how they may also participate in a "have your cake and eat it too" scenario?

TownCrierKnallgold, thanks for the article#1461977/27/06; 12:50:35

From Wednesday's Globe and Mail:

### a way of tapping into the growing demand by investors for precious metals. The Mint is trying to develop "a new type of investment" that would be listed on the TSX and be eligible for registered retirement savings plans...

[Randy's note: It is always good to ask ourselves to consider WHY there is always such an official empasis that people's personal savings efforts are duly REGISTERED in some form. Personally, I prefer to acquire and accumulate my personal holdings of wealth in ANOTHER form without all the papery attachments of pomp and circumstance.]

With the price of gold and silver hitting record highs in recent months, investors have been clamouring for new ways to buy the metals.

[Randy's note: That's a hoot. Whenever I, personally, find myself clamoring for a new way to buy metal, usually I pay with personal check, but sometimes I really cut loose and act like a bigshot, paying with the ever-trusty and oh-so-speedy bankwire.]

The Mint has been following the growing investor demand with interest..."sales right now have gone through the roof. They [coins] are just flying out faster than we can make them, which is a good thing,"

[Randy's note: Coins are flying out the door FASTER than they're being minted??? I'll stipulate that he was likely speaking with unmeasured hyperbole, but in the world of bullion banking, this is largely what happens in physical fact. 'Exististing' in promissory form, more 'gold' than is actually on hand is sold to the unsophisticated customer, at which point the ruse then lies undetectable and unchallenged in the form of an account entry, with institutional reassurances on fancy letterhead mailed in the form of a monthly or quarterly statement.]

No Thanks!


atomicmanscrap metal#1461987/27/06; 12:53:13

Mills are paying about $3.25 today for "bare bright" copper --the best grade. I try to work on 20% profit. Alum/copper radiators from a/c units are worth $1.50 a lb.
Therefore, a coil unit is worth from $15 to $100 if large. Nickel hits a new high every week. China is building 30 PBMR nuclear power plants.-needing lots of nickle.(U)Yellowcake has gone from $7 lb. to $45 lb. in 4 years. There is a big shortage now. We process it here in Oak Ridge. 25% of the world's zinc supplies were stored in New Orleans when Katrina hit. Zinc doubled in 60 days.
My thinking on confiscation is that we will be in a war footing when it happens( I was a Navy intel officer for several years). Scrap dealers may get "special privelages" as during WWII. WE may be needed for the war effort. I may have to keep good records and have some gov. beaucrat looking over my shoulder every daythough.
Home Depot here sells a 10 ft. piece 3/4" L copper tubing for $32.50
Basic metals are like oil. They have a "peak". Veins of ore are deeper and less rich. Labor costs are rising. Next year you will remember how cheap things were today.
Unless the economy goes into a depression, then I will be a big, ugly pawn shop.

Gandalf the WhiteUS$ Chart is "talking" again today !#1461997/27/06; 13:47:48

Helli Ben filled the DOWN GAP today !

USAGOLD Daily Market ReportPage Update!#1462017/27/06; 13:49:21">
The Daily Gold Market Report has been updated.

If you are considering investments in gold we invite you to">request our free introductory information packet detailing the products and services offered by USAGOLD ~ Centennial Precious Metals. We welcome your inquiry and look forward to working with you.

THURSDAY Market Excerpts

Gold up third straight day, dollar weakens

July 27 (from MarketWatch) -- Gold futures rallied Thursday, gaining in the face of a falling U.S. dollar, dimmed hopes for Mideast peace and a call to holy war issued by al-Qaida's deputy leader.

The COMEX August gold contract closed up $10.60 at $632.50 on the New York Mercantile Exchange.

[Looking ahead, DowJones reports, "As COMEX gold was closing, the Chicago Board of Trade's full-sized December gold futures were up $10.80 to $645.50.]

"Perhaps the single most relevant catalyst for this morning's surge in precious metals was the paroxysm of calls to global Jihad by al-Qaida's deputy," said Kitco's analyst Jon Nadler. In a video broadcast on the Arabic TV station al-Jazeera, al-Qaida's second-in-command called on Muslims throughout the world to join in a holy war against Israel, according to news reports.

Osama bin Laden's deputy, Ayman al-Zawahri, said that al-Qaida considers "all the world as a battlefield open in front of us" and that the fighting in Lebanon and Gaza won't end with "cease-fires or agreements," the Associated Press reported.

"Thursday's declaration of global religious war by an angry al-Zawahiri comes on the heels of the failed Rome summit and amid a deepening of the Lebanese operation being staged by Israel," Nadler said.

Israel broadened its air strikes against Hezbollah, bombing areas in northern, eastern and southern Lebanon, AP reported. At least 423 Lebanese and 51 Israelis have been killed since the conflict broke out on 12 July.

srael's justice minister said that the failure of an international crisis conference to reach agreement on a cease-fire on Wednesday was interpreted by Israel as a "permission from the world" to carry on its attacks against Hezbollah, AP reported.

On the currency markets, dollar weakness also boosted gold. The dollar slipped Thursday to two-week lows against the euro and yen and a seven-week low against the British pound.

The Federal Reserve Bank's Beige Book report which triggered a drop in the dollar Wednesday continued to resonate on the market. The Beige Book said upward pressure from energy and other inputs is persisting despite reports of a slowdown in the U.S. economy.

---(see url for full news, 24-hr newswire)---

GoldiloxETF "deterioration"#1462027/27/06; 14:11:00

@ Noble1,

I guess the SLV fund hasn't been around long enough to price deteriorate, as it is still even with the PoS.

At 0.5 to 1.0% a year, a unit of the GLD fund ought to be worth about 90% of PoG in just a few years. I wonder if they get to work the "miracle of compound interest" on that, too.

It sounded cheezy at the inception. Now it's starting to resemble Limburger!

"Can't you smell that smell!"

ArcticfoxClass Action Accuses Banks of Illegal Creation of Money#1462037/27/06; 16:40:15

Comments: Sorry if this has been posted in the past but it is the first that I have heard of this.

Class Action Accuses Banks of Illegal Creation of Money
John Ruiz Dempsey, criminologist and forensic litigation specialist filed a class action suit on behalf of the People of Canada alleging that financial institutions are engaged in illegal creation of money, reports Tom Kennedy, a Canadian activist for economic reform.

One of the best kept secrets is the mechanism of money creation in today's economic system. Although not really a secret at all, the fact that money is created not by and for the people who use it and not even by the government, but is issued by commercial banks when giving loans to private persons or government, is hidden by what could be described as thick clouds of smoke, put out by economists and government departments.

The complaint was filed Friday April 15, 2005 in the Supreme Court of British Columbia at New Westminster. It alleges that all financial institutions who are in the business of lending money have engaged in a deliberate scheme to defraud the borrowers by lending non-existent money which are illegally created by the financial institutions out of "thin air."

The legal action brings to the fore one of the major economic "drag factors" - the interest charged by banks for money that technically and legally is not theirs to lend, because even governments end up paying interest to banks lending money for public spending, and they in turn charge tax payers. A large part of every country's tax revenue goes first and foremost - before any "internal" spending - to payment of interest, largely because of the basic flaw in our way of creating money by the rich and for the rich.

Here is some more detail about the class action filed in Canada.

Class Action Suit Filed on Behalf of the People of Canada

forwarded by Tom Kennedy

New Westminster, B.C., April 15, 2005.

John Ruiz Dempsey BSCr, LL.B, a criminologist and forensic litigation specialist filed a class action suit on behalf of the People of Canada alleging that financial institutions are engaged in illegal creation of money.

The complaint filed Friday April 15, 2005 in the Supreme Court of British Columbia at New Westminster, alleges that all financial institutions who are in the business of lending money have engaged in a deliberate scheme to defraud the borrowers by lending non-existent money which are illegally created by the financial institutions out of "thin air."

Dempsey claims that creation of money out of nothing is ultra vires these defendants' charter or granted corporate power and therefore void and all monies loaned under false pretence contravenes the Criminal Code.

The suit which is the first of its kind ever filed in Canada which could involve millions of Canadians alleges that the contracts entered into between the People ("the borrowers") and the financial institutions were void or voidable and have no force and effect due to anticipated breach and for non-disclosure of material facts.

Dempsey says the transactions constitute counterfeiting and money laundering in that the source of money, if money was indeed advanced by the defendants and deposited into the borrowers' accounts, could not be traced, nor could it be explained or accounted for.

The suit names Envision Credit Union ("Envision"), a credit union; Laurentian Bank of Canada ("Laurentian Bank"), Royal Bank of Canada ("Royal Bank"), Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce ("CIBC"), Bank of Montreal ("BOM"), TD Canada Trust ("Canada Trust") and Canadian Payment Association ("CPA") as civil conspirators.

The plaintiff in the lawsuit is seeking recovery of money and property that was lost by way of confiscation through illegal "debt" collection and foreclosure. The Plaintiff is also seeking for the return of the equities which rightfully belong to the People of Canada, now being held by the defendant financial institutions as constructive trustees without color of right.

At all material times, these defendant banks and all of them have no legal standing to lend any money to borrowers, because:

1) these banks and credit unions did not have the money to lend, and therefore they did not have any capacity to enter into a binding contract;

2) the defendants did not have any cash reserve, they are not legally permitted to lend their depositor's or member's money without expressed written authorization form the depositors, and:

3) the defendants have no tangible assets of their own to lend and all their "assets" are "paper assets" which are mainly in the form of "receivables" created by them out of "thin air," derived out of loans whereas the monies loaned out were also created out of thin air.

Other than bookkeeping and computer entries, no money or substance of any value was loaned by the defendants to the Plaintiff. In all of the loan transactions entered into between the Plaintiff and the Defendants, the financial institutions did not bring any equity to any of the transaction.

All the equities were provided by the borrowers. The practices of the defendant financial institutions alleged in the complaint starkly contrast the practices of responsible and ethical money lenders who actually lend real, tangible, legal tender cash money.

The complaint alleges that the loan transactions are fraudulent because no value was ever imparted by the defendants to the Plaintiff; these defendants did not risk anything, nor lost anything and never would have lost anything under any circumstances and therefore no lien has been perfected according to law and equity against the Plaintiff.

The foreclosure proceedings which comes as a result of the borrower defaulting on such fraudulent loans were carried out in bad faith by the defendant banks and credit unions, and as such, these foreclosures were in every respect unlawful acts of conversion and unlawful seizure of property without due process of law which always results in the unjust enrichment of the defendants.

The suit alleges that the defendants utilize fraudulent banking practices whereby they deceive customers into believing that they are actually receiving "credit" or money when in fact no actual money is being loaned to their customers. However, the complaint describes a practice whereby there is realistically no money other than ledger or computer entries being loaned to the borrowers.

Rather than real money being received by the borrowers, "electronic" or "digitally created money", created out of nothing, at no cost to the financial institutions are entered as "loans" into their customers' accounts. The borrowers are then required to pay criminal interest rates for the money they never received. The suit alleges that the defendants effectively turn consumers into virtual debt slaves, forcing them to pay for something they never received, and then seizing their properties if they can no longer pay the banks with real money.

There is no law in Canada that could remotely suggest that the defendant financial institutions have the legal right to create money out of nothing. Dempsey says: "only God has the power to create anything out of nothing."

The class action suit, the first and the biggest of its kind in Canada is intended to give the justice system the opportunity to prove to itself and to the People of Canada who is really in control or whether they would continue to allow itself to be used by the banks as a tool in their unlawful and fraudulent banking practices which always ends in the enslavement of the people and confiscation of the people's properties.

Two other class action suits were filed by John Ruiz Dempsey against the banks. The first one was filed by Dempsey on behalf of Ian Dennis Gravlin of Calgary, Alberta and Pavel Darmantchev of Kelowna, B.C. versus the Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce. This matter is set for case management conference hearing on April 26, 2005. The Plaintiff expects a stiff opposition from the defendant's law firm. Madam Justice Garson is the case management judge assigned to the case.

A second class action suit was filed against MBNA CANADA BANK on behalf of Pavel Darmantchev of Kelowna, B.C., Ian Dennis Gravlin of Calgary, Alberta and Dena Alden of Vancouver, B.C.

A copy of the Dempsey legal action as filed can be found here to download as PDF.

See also:

Canada Revenue Agency Class Action

Beyond Greed and Scarcity
An interview with Bernard Lietaer

How money is created in Australia

E Pluribus Unum: Dollar Hegemony and Money Creation in IPE

(from the works of Michael Rowbotham)

Tracking The World Great Depression Of 2005

Ten BearsThe War of Private Vs Public Control of Society's Money Power #1462047/27/06; 17:54:28

A different view point from the American Monetary Institute

Because great power is exercised through money, power-hungry elements from ancient times to the present pursued the political ambition to dominate through the Money Power. Their main weapon has been the manipulation of language and thought, where definitions serve as heavy artillery.

"As a rule economists...don't take the trouble to study the history of money; it is much easier to imagine it and to deduce the principles of this imaginary knowledge."

In England the struggle became the goldsmiths vs the Monarchy representing society. Later it was the Bank of England vs. Society.

Today it's still the bankers versus the society. In philosophical shorthand it can be expressed as Adam Smith, or present day Economics vs Aristotle. But at base, the battle remains Private Money vs. Public Money. The outcome determines whether the money system operates to serve the few in control, or the whole society.

AMI Monetary Reform Conference, Chicago, Sept. 21–24, 2006

CometoseSilver#1462057/27/06; 18:19:41

What happened to the ?

Just purged some of the best stuff I ever read.........

don't want to get caught holding ..........

perhaps they were warned...

Who cares/ If we have sunken that low ...........

no telling who will be giving us direction tomorrow.


Look at the Silver weekly. Lots of good movement after the price took out the 50dma.........

Looking good at about 9

6 weeks prior to the erection ........Election !!!

That might put the dollar up to 88

Nice to have a little to read......

Noble1@Goldilox#1462067/27/06; 20:26:30

You bring up a good point. There is always a cost in buying, selling, and holding gold in any form. I guess one needs to consider their goal in this purchase. Short term profit? Long term wealth preservation? Protection from a crisis in fiat? Speculation? Diversifying one's asset allocation? Industrial use? Reserve holdings? Numismatics? Countless others. Only physical gold can acomplish all of these. However we must remain open to the fact that other forms of gold investment may not only be appropriate but may be the only means by which one may accomplish some of these goals. Examples: Pension funds with restrictions on investing in PG. IRAs. I know. I know. One can establish a self directed IRA. But have you ever seriously looked into this. Setup fees. Annual costs. Storage fees. Buying and selling fees. Not being able to take possession of the physical. Tell me how the avg. .4% expense fee (short term) of GLD is going to cost you more. I do not own any GLD or any other gold ETF. I have traded GLD in the past and was impressed in it's short term utility. I do feel that the hundreds of tons accumulated by these funds in audited and allocated storage has been positive for the POG. Perhaps all investment gold existing in only audited and allocated storage would be the next best thing to freegold. But the fact of the matter remains that the ETF fees/expenses will eventually reduce the holdings to 0.
SMUtest#1462077/27/06; 21:31:26

QPrivate money vs. Public money#1462087/27/06; 22:00:14

is not entirely correct in my opinion.

Surely what we have is not public money but "state-sanctioned cartel money"? Referring to the Federal Reserves debt notes of course.

Public money would come from the treasury and look what happened to Kennedy not long after he tried to bring that back into practice.

The power of money issuance is the probably the ultimate power a state can grab, besides throwing all dissenters into gulags. Money affects the trading activities of every individual and entity in the society, thus includes provision of food, shelter and fuel, the most basic of needs (ights some would say). As such a sound money should be considered as one of the most basic of human rights, since without it the food, fuel and shelter necessities become arbitrarily and unreliably priced and marketed.

Black BladeNatGas Draw In Summer#1462097/27/06; 22:23:18

I have been a bit busy lately. The link should explain why. We had a first ever mid summer draw on NatGas storage and the continuing heat wave looks like it will coninue to be a very busy season with rising costs (including energy). I think we will most likely see $90 oil by year-end and over well $100 oil by middle of next year (WYI benchmark). NatGas costs will follow along as it takes about a year lag time for building in fuel switching capability. Our collective goose is cooked and energy costs will continue to rise so get your precious metal "portfolio insurnace" in order soon). Fortunately we pay less than half of what Europeans pay for fuel so we really are quite lucky. It could be much worse as we in the energy industry easily expect a two barrel/day shortfall this fall. Then again, there could be another possible GOM hurricane or two along the way. ;)

- Black Blade

Gandalf the WhiteTks Black Blade ! You increase my Favorites list often. AND --#1462107/27/06; 23:55:13

I sure is fun to go down to the Castle archives in these HOT DAYS to cool off and read the olden times discussions to see how much has come true as of this early date in the GOLD RUN !


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Friend of Another (9/20/98; 22:12:19 Msg ID:54)
To some of my friends I say good day and to others good night. Will return for more discussion and thoughts. Thanks

Friend of Another (9/20/98; 22:02:45 Msg ID:53)
Before I continue, I want to thank Mr. Kosares for creating this Forum. This effort by USAGOLD will reward many readers with interesting discussion and debate about the future of gold in the world society. Michael, thank you! Also: BMACD: In reply to your 20:48. Hashimoto made the comment, but what position do we find Mr.Yen in now? I think it was a comment created by political need at the time. What would happen if Japan sold (dumped if you will) their US dollar reserves on the world market and/or brought Gold with the proceeds? Even if the Federal Reserve purchased some of the debt, it would no doubt drive down the value of the dollar. But this action would not help their economy as they still operate worldwide in a dollar reserve system. The dollar price of gold would rise, but not enough to liquefy their financial burden. In short, they still have to sell goods and services to the world, in order to raise their GDP. This will not happen if the Yen appreciates against all other currencies! As you can see, this is the box they are in. It is also the predicament many other countries are in that operate using the dollar as a reserve currency. For many of them, a rise in the dollar price of gold will not help them, yet. Gold has not been brought to the forefront as a true currency reserve asset. It will when the Euro is created. At that precise time these economies will have a new market for their goods and they will accept payment in a new reserve currency. Until this reality becomes apparent, the world financial system will continue to slide down the dollar reserve slope. This slide will create the illusion of a economic deflation, but then isn't the dollar really an illusion also? Thanks

Friend of Another (9/20/98; 20:48:44 Msg ID:51)
Here are a couple of items I read from someone else: "The China Daily published a special report from the Chinese state planning commission that outlines a plan to reallocate foreign reserves ratios away from U.S. dollar holdings. It recommends reducing U.S. dollars as a percentage of reserves from 60 percent to 40 percent. This suggests U.S. dollar sales of $28 billion. The report went on to say that China should prepare for a weaker U.S. dollar on grounds that the U.S.(as a net debtor) consumption boom has created a Bubble." Also: "CHINA MAY BE FORCED TO TURN RESERVES INTO EUROS: ECONOMIST BEIJING, Sept 3 ( AFEC/AGENCIES ) - China may be forced to switch much its enormous foreign currency reserves into the new Euro if the dollar falls in the future, a leading economist was quoted as saying Thursday. While there has been widespread speculation over a devaluation of the Chinese yuan, state development planning commission economist Wang Jian said China would have to watch for any fall in the dollar when elaborating its economic policies, the official China Daily newspaper reported. Wang said the US economic boom of recent years was a "bubble," caused by a massive influx of foreign capital, which could burst when the Euro is introduced on January 1. China has around 140 billion dollars' worth of reserves, with about 60 percent denominated in dollars, the China Daily said. It also has around 60 billion dollars of US treasury bonds. Wang said China would reschedule its reserves so there was around 40 percent in dollars, 40 percent in the Euro and 20 percent in Japanese yen. China currently also has German marks, Swiss francs and yen reserves. The Euro is to be launched with 11 European members from January 1 next year. The government has insisted in recent weeks that it does not intend to devalue the yuan, inspite of the Asian crisis which has undermined its exports, and that it was ready to use its huge reserves to maintain the official parity. " I think the question of the Euro will be answered by the actions of the official government Central Banks. For a citizen living in Europe and using the Euro, it will become the best of all worlds. Not much different from the American using dollars to buy goods (in discounted real terms) from Japan or any other third world country. Only, now the shoe will be on the other foot with the USA trying desperately to sell it's goods to Europe for EUROS. This will be another strange twist as many/most of Americas foreign goods producers will, by then have stopped using dollars as reserve assets. The outcome of a change in reserve currency is mind numbing. For the small person outside of Europe, they should "Follow in the Footsteps" of others. The holding of physical gold can and will be considered holding a currency asset as will the holding of Euros. However, the Euro will not come remotely close to the appreciation of gold as valued against all things. The ECB and the BIS will make it that way. You sir (or Ms.) will see this come to pass. Thanks

bmacd (9/20/98; 20:45:24 Msg ID:50)
To Friend of Another
Well, now thats soemthing I hadn't quite considered! A couple of points though. Remember a year ago when Hashimoto made the comment (which he later retracted) that the US might worry that Japan would start to sell some Treasuries and perhaps buy gold instead. They sure had made some money from the bonds. The US dollar would be in trouble if BOJ dumped. I doubt that they would dump it all for gold, but it may not take much. Once the US dollar comes down and loses the safe haven label, I bet on a good rise up in gold. You're right. Joe Citizen could care less if gold is $1 or $2000 except for what that says. Let's say all my prayers are answered and gold does rocket way up. Well, all is not well in the world, and then Joe Citizen has to care as any of those factors settle home. It is going to be interesting for sure. Back to Japan for a moment,I don't beleive that they're really suffering at all now, as the media would like to have us all believe. I think Robert Rubin is very nervous these days. It's early, I know, but I'm tired, and seeing as gold hasn't made it so that I need not work full time good night, and I look forward to more discussions on this site.

Friend of Another (9/20/98; 20:16:24 Msg ID:49)
My last post was to your 18:29. Also, I somehow double posted? Because not many are here, perhaps we willtalk for a while. I expect Another will send something if able. I will reply to your 19:30. Thanks

Friend of Another (9/20/98; 20:09:53 Msg ID:48)
We continue to watch the BOJ to see if they are selling US Treasury debt. I don't think that is going to happen. They will buy gold, they will talk a great deal, but they can't sell US debt held as reserves. Why? From the beginning Japan has tied it's future to a US dollar world. They built their economic engine by trading with America using a dollar surplus mode. From a USA viewpoint, that's a balance of trade deficit in American dollar currency. It was always a week Yen (in real terms) that created the demand for goods made in Japan. The huge balance of payments surplus, held by Japan in world reserve currency dollars gave them the reserve assets to grow their economy. As governments manipulated currency exchange rates (known as the dirty float) for the benefit of an IMF/Dollar reserve system, this action gave Japan an enormous advantage in trade and finance. As this has gone on for over twenty five years, Tokyo could not help but represent a bloated financial system. Today, they have reached an end that no one ever thought would come; the dollar reserve system is ending. As one might expect, Japan having received the largest return for supporting this system, will now suffer the largest loss. They simply do not know how to play a different game. The Yen will one day fall with the dollar. Will the BOJ buy enough gold through the BIS to offset the complete destruction of their financial system? They will no doubt try, but I doubt their is enough gold out there to make a difference. At present valuations, all the gold held by Central Banks is worth what, 300 billion dollars? If we doubled or tripled it the amounts would make but a small speck compared to the loss of the second largest financial system in the world. You see, the current supply and demand for gold as a commodity or weather one CB is buying or selling some of it today is really a non-event compared to a changing World Financial System. For the regular citizen, gold priced in the many thousands will have little effect compared to oil priced at $200 or $400 a barrel! My friend, we are coming into changing times as never before. It will be here, on the USAGOLD Forum that we will follow these events. As Another would say, "We watch this new gold market together, Yes?"! Be assured, he will post here as soon as this site is known to be open. Thanks

bmacd (9/20/98; 19:30:44 Msg ID:47)
Well, FOA, I like you scenario, and I myself will perhaps enjoy some fine vintage wine if you're right. I just wonder how quicly people will dump US dollar to buy the Euro. While the currencies and countries that make it up are not new, the Euro itself has yet to even be born. Personally, a brand new currency might not quite spell total stability to me. Guess that leaves gold?

Friend of Another (9/20/98; 19:20:34 Msg ID:46)
The Markets!
To All: It's an interesting corner that the Euro people (BIS) have put the US government and the dollar into. As the only reserve currency, the dollar must fall in value in order to reflate the world economy. But, a week dollar is exactly what the Treasury doesn't need with the upcoming Euro. Now, all Europe has to do is wait and watch as the markets do their dirty work! If the dollar stays strong, the countries in crisis will sink even lower. In doing so this will create a US trade deficit never before seen in modern times. It is no accident that most of the economies in crisis are many of the chief trading partners of America. It's also no accident that they all are IMF/Dollar advocates. Meaning, they hold little Gold and much US treasury debt as local currency reserves. The US will be forced, by deteriorating market conditions, to lower the exchange value of the dollar. But, if Greenspan lowers local interest rates, Europe will begin to dump the dollar. For them, they don't need the dollar as a reserve currency anymore! They will hold a small amount of it only as an currency exchange intervention vehicle. With this new definition for the dollar it will be required to carry a good interest rate. They have the Dollar in a trap that will force the Fed to lower it's value through the foreign exchange window. All the while pushing interest rates up or holding them steady to protect this reserve currency. This isn't a strange twist as it happened once before during the 70's. Only this time a new world reserve currency is coming online, giving many countries a choice for the first time. I think China can't wait to unload it's US treasury holdings for the Euro. I agree with Another's last post (in the archives) about the vintage wine. Gold is that reserve vintage that many people kept trying to open before it's time. By the end of the year, the currency wars will bring this fine wine to completion. Once it goes above $360 some major defaults will occur, changing the entire aspect of the market. Add to this the introduction of the Euro and the old US Dollar gold market will disappear. Some investors are buying gold for the Y2K problem. I thing the Currency Wars will destroy the markets long before Y2K does it's deed! Also, I am very excited to hear of this USAGOLD FORUM. I think myself and Another will have much participation with this new discussion group! It will, no doubt, be followed by many Gold investors. Who knows, perhaps even a Central Banker or Government leader? Thanks FOA

Friend of Another (9/20/98; 19:03:15 Msg ID:43)
The Markets!
To All: It's an interesting corner that the Euro people (BIS) have put the US government and the dollar into. As the only reserve currency, the dollar must fall in value in order to reflate the world economy. But, a week dollar is exactly what the Treasury doesn't need with the upcoming Euro. Now, all Europe has to do is wait and watch as the markets do their dirty work! If the dollar stays strong, the countries in crisis will sink even lower. In doing so this will create a US trade deficit never before seen in modern times. It is no accident that most of the economies in crisis are many of the chief trading partners of America. It's also no accident that they all are IMF/Dollar advocates. Meaning, they hold little Gold and much US treasury debt as local currency reserves. The US will be forced, by deteriorating market conditions, to lower the exchange value of the dollar. But, if Greenspan lowers local interest rates, Europe will begin to dump the dollar. For them, they don't need the dollar as a reserve currency anymore! They will hold a small amount of it only as an currency exchange intervention vehicle. With this new definition for the dollar it will be required to carry a good interest rate. They have the Dollar in a trap that will force the Fed to lower it's value through the foreign exchange window. All the while pushing interest rates up or holding them steady to protect this reserve currency. This isn't a strange twist as it happened once before during the 70's. Only this time a new world reserve currency is coming online, giving many countries a choice for the first time. I think China can't wait to unload it's US treasury holdings for the Euro. I agree with Another's last post (in the archives) about the vintage wine. Gold is that reserve vintage that many people kept trying to open before it's time. By the end of the year, the currency wars will bring this fine wine to completion. Once it goes above $360 some major defaults will occur, changing the entire aspect of the market. Add to this the introduction of the Euro and the old US Dollar gold market will disappear. Some investors are buying gold for the Y2K problem. I thing the Currency Wars will destroy the markets long before Y2K does it's deed! Also, I am very excited to hear of this USAGOLD FORUM. I think myself and Another will have much participation with this new discussion group! It will, no doubt, be followed by many Gold investors. Who knows, perhaps even a Central Banker or Government leader? Thanks FOA

bmacd (9/20/98; 18:29:41 Msg ID:42)
New Week
It's early in the new week, but Japan is down 276 points, and gold is down a mere nickel. So much for Japan's new bank fix. Maybe they'll make good on that sell USA Treasuries, and Buy Gold comment.

USAGOLD (9/20/98; 15:58:21 Msg ID:39)
I want to welcome all fellow goldmeisters to the USAGOLD FORUM. If you would like to post, please go to the registration page as soon as possible. I will be trying to issue passwords what's left of today and tomorrow as soon as possible to get things rolling. Let's keep it clean, have some fun, and learn a great deal from each other. I invite you to make this your headquarters for finding and disseminating gold information. I will pretty much stay out of the conversation and let this be your FORUM!. Who knows we may even have a visit soon from some old friends. Stay tuned, fellow meisters, this is going to be fun.

*** End of page :-)

mikalTest#1462117/28/06; 09:20:07

USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.Study these price charts of the past 5-1/2 years. Have you successfully filled your vault in anticipation of the typical seasonal performance?#1462127/28/06; 11:05:42

The red zone in these yearly charts depict the buying opportunity of the June-July 'Summer Doldrums"

seasonal opportunity

USAGOLD Daily Market ReportPage Update!#1462137/28/06; 13:55:06">
The Daily Gold Market Report has been updated.

If you are considering investments in gold we invite you to">request our free introductory information packet detailing the products and services offered by USAGOLD ~ Centennial Precious Metals. We welcome your inquiry and look forward to working with you.

FRIDAY Market Excerpts

Gold up again, gains nearly 2.5% on the week

July 28 (from DowJones) -- At the close of COMEX futures trade Friday the benchmark December gold contract settled up $2.30 at $647.80.

During the day the contract dipped to a low of $638, nearly closing the gap left open after Thursday's rally between $636 and $643. However, short covering lent a hand to the yellow metal, taking it to a session high of $649.80.

Traders said that despite slower-than-expected growth after the U.S. gross domestic product reading, Dec gold ran into heavy resistance near the $650 an ounce mark. Friday's advanced reading of second quarter GDP showed U.S. growth slowed more than expected, to a rate of 2.5% compared with 5.6% in the first quarter.

In response, the dollar dropped to a low of 85.32 while the euro hit a high of $1.2770 but gold was eyeing the moves of crude oil, which dipped below the $73 a barrel mark amid talk of a cease fire in the Middle East.

Analysts at MKS Finance said in a daily note that this week's moves reinforce their view that gold is building a strong base above the $600 mark.

"Considering the volatility prevailing in the market, the short-term and medium-term outlook are, however, very difficult to predict," the analysts said.

"The summer thin liquidity should continue to exaggerate the moves within the $600-$700 range."

---(see url for full news, 24-hr newswire)---

TownCrierIMF sees soft landing for U.S. economy#1462147/28/06; 14:03:27

WASHINGTON, July 28 (Reuters) - The U.S. economy is likely to achieve a 'soft landing' as growth eases to a slower but sustainable pace, the International Monetary Fund said on Friday, though there are growing signs of price pressures.

In its annual review of the U.S. economy, the IMF said the Federal Reserve will need to tailor its policy-making to try to limit downside risks to economic activity -- higher oil prices, cooling housing market and low savings -- while ensuring that inflation expectations remain anchored.

"The recent pickup in core inflation and expectations, coupled with a further drop in the unemployment rate, suggests a risk of a build up in price pressures," the fund said in a statement.

^---(from url)---^

Despite predictions of a 'soft landing' rather than a 'hard landing', a person ought to pause long enough simply to contemplate the mere notion of "landing", period.


TownCrierHEADLINE: My fears are easing, but I'll stick by gold#1462157/28/06; 19:06:11

(The Scotsman) -- Life for the humble investment strategist is full of worry and upsets punctuated, happily, by periods of calm satisfaction.

I've been enjoying one such benign and thoroughly excellent period since late 2002; against a backdrop of strong global growth, it has been plainly obvious that growth-related assets should be favoured. Within that has been a strong sub-plot -- an emphasis on emerging markets, in general, and China and India in particular.

Alongside this, other themes have developed, including diversification away from traditional "long-only" equity and the embrace of an array of "alternatives" bringing differing patterns of returns and, of course, risks. All jolly good fun.

However, what with one thing and another, the global investment environment has not improved over the past month or so. Getting my head around what is going on out there, as a process, takes longer, is more difficult and less comfortable.

Facing the certainty of a slowdown in the US, I'm grappling with uncertainty over its severity and its implications for elsewhere. This is big stuff, with the potential to call for a strategic shift away from risk assets, maybe to bonds or to cash - perish the thought.

A key factor is the actions of central bankers...

...on one level there is little in the world economic picture to justify any radical change in strategic investment positioning. Yet, it is clearly evident that the macroeconomic uncertainties have increased. Risks to forecasts and assumptions have risen. Heightened insecurity has a price.

It is not only on the macroeconomic front that conditions have deteriorated. The horrible bombing in Mumbai, taken with remarkable stoicism by the local stock market, is a reminder that life in major financial centres can be hazardous.

The Iran and North Korean situations rumble on. And suddenly, from nowhere, we have the mayhem in Lebanon. Geopolitics isn't exactly my bag, but I do have to take a view....

...all around us the risks have risen; only some of these risks were predictable and only some are capable of reasoned assessment. This raises the entirely justifiable question of whether my liking for growth-related assets and "risky" emerging markets needs to change.

The fundamentals say I should not change anything; that a well-spread exposure to economically sensitive assets is appropriate and bond markets are for wimps. And for me that's the answer, but I tell you what - I'm glad I've got gold as part of the asset mix.

...I've been tipped off to something that ought to worry those of you who think we [investment professionals] all know what we're doing.

Three months ago, the big worry was rampant inflation, excess growth, overheating and all that stuff. Two months later that was gone, failing growth was just around the corner. This month? You've guessed it - inflation's back in fashion.

So, not much sign of consistent strategic thinking there, then. And thank goodness for that too; that's what creates value-adding opportunity for the independent thinker willing to stand apart from the crowd. I rest my case.

^---(from url)---^

Although only mentioned once in the article, gold carries enough clout to make The Scotsman's headline.


lectreauxGold, ...that was then, ...THIS IS NOW#1462167/28/06; 21:57:17


Used to be, a person could count on several mitigating factors when trying to scale and slide the treacherous topographies of gold's wild rides. That was then.

Now, we have all the necessary climbing gear to ensure that if we fall, we are at least pegged into the wall to prevent getting too beaten up, when we dangle by the ends of our ropes bashing ourselves on the rocks all the way.


Unfortunately, now, we have also embarked upon a bull, of a very new sort. This bull is out of the gate, pent up from long periods of his reigns being pulled on his nose-rings, while the spurs were carving his ribcage.

Practically every historical factor affecting the price of gold back "THEN" is also in play simultaneously "NOW". Throughout history, rarely have we seen times when all the historical factors were all at play, simultaneously.

I submit we are in for one hell of a ride people. I for one, would pay dearly for the ringside seats to that rodeo.

It would seem that either of the two contestants today, have their climbs and rides, cut out for them.

Interestingly enough is the observation that bulls prefer flat ground when running. If running uphill, bulls will tend to fall down, as their rear legs are slightly longer and much more powerfull than the front legs. When the bull has every reason to run, his falls are usually short lived.

When every mountain climber and every cowboy engage the bull, there is usually a rope between them. It is the length and strength of this rope that will ensure a good climb/ride. For the climber, sometimes he needs a lot more strength as well as slack to survive the fall. The cowboy needs a much shorter, weaker rope. Specifically of a length so that his arm is not ripped from it's socket. Yet weaker so when the bull pulls too hard the wrong way the cowboy is let loose to save his life.

One needs to gather, analyze and logistically plot commodity research data, onto timelines, to really see the vast undervalued realm being created especially in gold, PGM and/or other precious metals.

Just for fun, I started researching commodity related forums, blogs, and what have you, on the internet. Through the wonders of modern technology there is of course a virtually unlimited amount of places to go where you can find real people and fake people talking about global commodity issues. Much like this place, lot of good reading here BTW.

I have noticed lately that there is a huge surge in public interest in this area. You don't have to look far to see the increase in topic matter being engaged at a furious rate in just about every media there is. Obviously word is getting around and the bull, has made his intentions clear, he needs to run.

What about the contestants though, are they ready for the climb, the ride? Speculation on gold is getting to be risky, and the rope is growing exponentially more expensive every day. The rodeo dates and climbing trek maps are getting to be difficult to decipher on every new piece of geo-political/financial information that hits the internet and the wires. In order to sharpen the focus on the bull, an experimental blog has been created that is free and collaborative in this very arena. Experimentation in gold price forecasting is the end result, information is shared publicly and privately at no cost to anyone in a blog environment. Many of the resulting forecasts have shown most interesting results.

No need to dress up, just try to behave and let's see what we can learn, when you, peer into "THE CRYSTAL BALL"

Experimentation in gold price forecasting

Blog Address

Enjoy your weekend!

GOLD FINGERHmmmm@lectreaux#1462177/29/06; 00:31:21

I did take a peek at your blog and well....I like this forum better.

Who wants to look at a lot of gibberish!

GOLD babe GOLD!!

We know stocks are going to hell along with the rest of the world....Wal-Mart too...OPPS!

GOLD FINGEROnce upon a time~#1462187/29/06; 00:49:31

Using a nuclear device supplied by North Korea, gold-smuggler and metallurgist Goldfinger intends to increase the value of his gold bullion ten-fold by detonating the device inside Fort Knox, thereby making the 15 billion dollar gold supply of the United States radioactive for 58 years.



*It's a move remember folks~

TopazAug Au.#1462197/29/06; 01:39:06

We appear to have kept a goodly number corralled for delivery come Monday. Will Aug deliveries reach 32,000 Contracts (100T) a-la June?
20K will do nicely thanks.

melda laureThis is but the foretaste of the bitter cup that has been set before us#1462207/29/06; 03:17:49

The world changes, yet ever the same: viejo como los cerros, pero siempre verderezcan. Enwinea amonim, ... well, you get the picture. And so here we sit on the edge of ruin, awaiting the last trumpet call as it were, laughing at our good fortune, and (well is it said that hope dies last) dreading the certain future that our foresight tells us is fraught with dangers and uncertain trials. Who now will drain this cup? Look in the mirror.

Elves are not in the habit of asking for forgiveness or deliverance: we are a proud and snooty race some say, yet I would plead that the world being harsh and the valar far away we have no choice but prudence, and that can hardly be called arrogance.

Well the boat isn't comming, and neither is the cavalry or anybody else, so I hope your sails are lashed up tight and the hatches secure, for on the other side of this wave lies the undiscovered country: a new age of medical knowledge next to which our present art is so far from worthy it scarce can be counted as nought but barbarism and ignorance, a new age of energy the likes of which have never been told save in tales men now call legend, a reaccquaintance with history long forgotten, and with it... but never mind that. Many of you will live to see these fairy tales, nay- many of you will LIVE these fairy tales, even as your grandsires saw the transformation of their world through steam and electricity.

I have no idea who is pulling the strings (I have my guesses), but I do know this: the age of petty greed has ended, as the world is too small for unsupervised fistfights, or those who chop cherry trees in springtime to produce particle board. We will have the Great Flushing, as The Mad Piute predicted over 150 years ago.

The world changes, yet ever the same: if capitalism is ever to be restored, then so to its peculiar foundations, it's Rod and Measuring string: "yasse ea malta, ar i tana noreo malta na mara."

(There is gold, and the gold of that land is good.)

The world is in denial, about housing, about the dollar, oil, gold, energy, medicine, physics, about many things. The gold bull has many years to run... laugh yourself silly all the way to the coin shop!

scarlettajerbajhan#1462217/29/06; 12:39:40

I have mangled the spelling of this country's name, sorry, corrections welcome.
What happens to th price of gold when 400 new tons of it enter the market?

The Invisible HandImbalances?#1462227/29/06; 18:39:08

Yes, denial, that was what we were told before Y2K.
And now are told that people worked on Y2K and so the problem got solved.
But before Y2K, we were told that there were too many lines of code to be checked and that embedded systems could not possibly be checked.
Of course, this time, it's different.
And then came the Revolution!

The Invisible HandSunday morning snips#1462237/29/06; 19:04:33,,2087-2291868,00.html
Inflation is low ... but only on the Chav Price Index
Middle classes hit hardest by price rises that official statistics ignore
One economic commentator last week cuttingly referred to the CPI as the "Chav Price Index" and said it did not reflect the true inflation level experienced by many people.,,1833079,00.html
Business leaders warned the Bank of England this weekend against responding to rocketing energy bills with a snap rise in interest rates on Thursday.


Please explain to The Invisible Hand how the BoE can leave interest rates as they are when inflation (in England) is sky-high. MORE DENIAL?

The Observer can also reveal that at a cabinet meeting before Blair left for last Friday's Washington summit with President George Bush, minister after minister pressed him to break with the Americans and publicly criticise Israel over the scale of death and destruction.,,1833096,00.html
Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah warns, should peace moves fail, the Middle East could be engulfed in a 'conflict that would spare no one'.

The Invisible HandVenezuela's Hugo Chavez#1462247/29/06; 19:41:33

Chavez’ alliance with Russia is not aimed against any other countries.
But his alliance with Iran is anti-U.S.
Right, it is labeled anti-U.S. by a Canadian.
MOSCOW, July 27 (RIA Novosti) - Russian private business may invest billions of dollars in Venezuela with the government's support, the president said Thursday.
Following a meeting with his Venezuelan counterpart Hugo Chavez in Moscow, President Vladimir Putin said the interest of Russian companies in their Venezuelan partners was growing.
Putin said cooperation between Russia and Venezuela was not aimed against any other countries.
Anti-U.S. leaders Chavez and Ahmedinejad pledge mutual support in Tehran
TEHRAN, Iran (AP) - Anti-U.S. leaders Hugo Chavez of Venezuela and Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmedinejad met in Tehran on Saturday, pledging to stick together in their frequent clashes with the United States.
MOSCOW, July 29 (RIA Novosti) - Gazprom [RTS: GAZP] said Saturday that its 100% subsidiary VNIIGAZ had signed a deal to draft a scheme to develop Venezuela's natural gas industry.] Arming Venezuela in Anticipation of an Expected U.S. Invasion?by Mahdi Darius Nazemroaya
July 29, 2006

The Russian Federation and Venezuela on July 27, 2006 have negotiated and approved the sale of 24 aircraft and 53 helicopters—about a $1 billion (U.S.) deal—to Venezuela, as part of an ongoing landmark event, defying the American threats and demands to halt all weapons transfers and any future deals between Russia and Venezuela. Russia has already supplied and started delivering portions of a 100,000 Kalashnikov automatic rifles ordered by Venezuela and Russian attack helicopters to Venezuela. This deal has further entrenched Russian-Venezuelan cooperation, partnership, and the strategic shift of Russia replacing the United States as the military hardware supplier of Venezuela. The securing of this military hardware agreement between Russia and Venezuela is a sign of the fermenting geo-strategic confrontation or rivalry between the Russia and the United States.
The Venezuelan national security doctrine, much like the Cuban national security doctrine, is primarily designed to oppose the anticipated U.S. military invasion is an asymmetrical war. Besides the expected U.S. military invasion, the Venezuelan national security doctrine has been drafted to meet a U.S. contrived war with Colombia, and internal armed insurgency sponsored by the United States. A mutual defence pact with Cuba has also been integrated into the Venezuelan national security doctrine and Venezuela has created special police elite paramilitary groups that operate independently from the regular command of the Venezuelan military.

And Putin's Alliance with Chavez would not be aimed against the Great Satan, says Putin?

The Invisible HandAlgeria and Bolivia#1462257/29/06; 20:09:38

The Gas OPEC which is being mentioned/discussed on this Forum does not only concern Russia, Iran and Venezuela,
but also Bolivia and Algeria,
although Putin is unhappy with the part, which following the Algerian hydro-carbures (whatever that may be – in English) law, he will receive in that Pact.

Le président vénézuélien est arrivé samedi à Téhéran pour une visite officielle de qurante-huit heures.
A noter que le Vénézuela comme l'Iran sont tous deux des producteurs de gaz majeurs. Il se pourrait bien que leurs entrevues concernent également UNE ÉVENTUELLE CRÉATION D'UN NOUVEAU CARTEL DU GAZ DE MÊME TYPE QUE L'OPEP, auquel Algérie et Bolivie notamment, pourraient embo"ter le pas. En effet, la Bolivie a récemment évoqué la possibilité qu'elle rejoigne l'OPEP, tandis que Algérie et Russie ont d'ores et déjà tissés des liens très serrés dans le domaine, même si compte-tenu des récentes modifications de la loi algérienne sur les hydrocarbures, le temps n'est pas au beau fixe entre les deux pays, Poutine étant très certainement insatisfait de la nouvelle part de gâteau qui pourrait lui revenir.

The Invisible HandChavez compares Israel's action's to Hitler's#1462267/29/06; 20:25:14

Chavez im Iran: "Israel handelt wie Hitler"

Add to that what I quoted earlier,,1833538,00.html
The Observer can also reveal that at a cabinet meeting before Blair left for last Friday's Washington summit with President George Bush, minister after minister pressed him to break with the Americans and publicly criticise Israel over the scale of death and destruction.,,1833096,00.html
Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah warns, should peace moves fail, the Middle East could be engulfed in a 'conflict that would spare no one'.
Russia Arming Venezuela in Anticipation of an Expected U.S. Invasion?

Sorry, these are no more interesting times. These are frightening times.

And then there was this:
Putin said cooperation between Russia and Venezuela was not aimed against any other countries.

Got a bunker?

The Invisible HandHistory unfolding before our eyes#1462277/29/06; 20:31:29

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has urged Iran to increase investment in his country's oil and gas assets.
Caradoc"Blue Gold"#1462287/29/06; 23:46:12

Those who were here in late 2004 may remember Jim Puplava's "Blue Gold" article ( ) with its thought that, like oil, water may become precious.

That article focused on drinking water, but today's AP story linked above addresses water in general. Since ranchers are now unloading their livestock because they can't afford to feed them, supply and demand says that by next winter the price of beef may justify being called "red gold." Bread won't be cheap either.

Unless you have your own electricity, trying to stockpile beef at today's price is a sporty investment. Much safer is the traditional yellow gold available from our host.

Once water is in short supply, any piece of property with an artesian spring will carry an outrageous price premium. Almost as desireable will be a good well with a 24-volt pump and a couple of photovoltaic panels.


PS: If any of you are looking into a more elaborate PV setup, be aware that the batteries are the weak link in the system, so it's worth tracking down a source for industrial quality nickel-iron (NiFe) cells. The ones that George Eastman bought from Thomas Alva Edison a hundred years ago are still seeing daily duty powering the electric forklift trucks in Kodak's Pennsylvania warehouse, and that's a track record that no lead-acid battery can match.

melda laureSlow motion train wreck, one car at a time#1462297/29/06; 23:53:32

Sir Scarlett, the answer is simple: if sale is offered to a large customer (say china) then nothing happens. Such customers simply write a check. On the other hand, if the goods are offered on COMEX or some other exchange and are offered all at once, then of course the market tanks, (momentarily). If they offered it to ME the most I could offer would be a few pennies per pound!

Y2k had too many unknowns, sir FL. Today we have many clear facts: Oil at $75 for several months, the US invading Afghanistan and Iraq. Israel "draining the swamp" in Lebannon. Iranians dancing with vials of refined U238. And Gold in a Bull Market, dollar in a bear market. The collapse that might have happened swiftly, can now unfold at a more leisured pace. The frogs will be boiled with their heads un-decapitated. The wise frogs, observing the deceitful doom of their fellows, move to golden waters in a more temperate clime.

Bizarro-GreenspanFiat money,it's very,very good for you#1462307/30/06; 02:34:29

"What happens before the age of two has a permanent, lasting effect on your health, and that includes aging," said Dr. David J. P. Barker, a professor of medicine at Oregon Health and Science University in Portland and a professor of epidemiology at the University of Southampton in England. We owe this all to fiat money and bigger government," Dr. Barker adds. "Some people don't credit credit nearly enough. Being able to tap a Home Equity Line of Credit to get dentures or braces can give us all something to smile about."
KnallgoldMahathir attacks $#1462317/30/06; 08:32:51

Dr M Tells World To Use Dollar Weapon To Pressure Washington
GoldiloxSummer shine for gold trade#1462327/30/06; 09:48:51


Summer sales brought some cheer to the local bullion trade, which was badly hit due to high and fluctuating prices for several months now.
Industry sources yesterday said local jewellers witnessed brisk sales from mid-June to about mid-July with many people buying gold before going on leave. The sales got a further boost with prices scaling down during the period, ending up at QR64/gm for 22-carat at one point of time.
Traditionally, June and July have been busy months for the local jewellers. This is because some people who go on leave invariably carry the yellow metal with them.


Jittery times in the ME spur sales of "insurance". While some dig holes in the ground to uncover gold, others do the same to rebury it.

Camel$5 gas#1462337/30/06; 12:13:33

I was recalling an incident from many years ago , when I happened to be in the company of a big ,tough, sort of kid who had a room in the same apt. complex. We were out on the street,and he was pretty drunk and acting tough, I guess to show off, and picked a fight with this little guy nearly half his size. It happened pretty fast and a circle formed, the little guy was cornered and looking around for a way out and looked over at me probaly because I had been with the other kid. Anyway he looked at me as if to say : Can't you stop this..........but I didn't have presence of mind to do anything, except look on with fascination.

The big guy was moving forward , and the little guy whipped out a linoleum knife and put a big gash in his cheek. We ran off with ,blood gushing and luckily the little guy didn't come after us.

I wonder if Sharon would have done the same as Olmert if he was still in control. Sometimes its the old military people who are the most cautious.Bush gets his war with Iran,we get 5 gasoline.

phil288; 12:43:04

I am somewhat reluctant to post this piece from Australia since it does not directly reference gold, but it is a fascinating discussion of peak oil and its implications for transportation going forward to 2020. I strongly recommend it although it is quite long. Dr. Samson Bakhtiari's piece in the beginning should be required reading for all of us. Got gold!
White HillsGold finger#1462367/30/06; 18:07:16

Censor it all! White Hills
adminPosting#1462377/30/06; 18:51:42

Traditionally this time of year the posts are sparce as investors pursue summertime interests. That doesn't mean that we are going to allow this forum to go political. Primarily, this is a gold forum devoted to you guessed it - - - GOLD! Partisan politics just don't make it here -- either Republican or Democrat. We'd rather have no posts for a few months (if that were the cost) in the heat of summer than turn this over to one political party or the other. . .Bear this mind when you compose your posts.
melda laureTANSTAAFL, and the consequences of ECE theory.#1462397/30/06; 19:48:32

Sir Phil288, those predictions of $150 to $300/bbl are assuming DXY in the 80's, and stable interest rates, and that you'll still be able to buy a dozen large eggses for a couple of bucks (ie: constant dollar prices). Otherwise one could put any price on POO he chooses, ditto gold.

TANSTAAFL. It is said that economics is the science of Human Action: humans act to fulfill their desires and needs, and it is also a plain fact that being blessed with limited faculties and vitality, that humans exist in a world of scarcity. Air and Sky have little value because there is a seemingly unlimited supply available everywhere, everything else requires some effort. Or so I used to belive.

Master Kosares, I beg your indulgence for posing this odd question in your hall but there is a political matter on which I am confounded. Sir 'Lox, there is a question I have been working on. What would be the fate of the dollar, interest rates, and commodities markets if the MEG contraption (or others like it) could force the price/KWh down to (pick a number, say 2 pennies a gigawatthour)? How much copper in a fully electric Diesel big rig? (How much copper in a fully electric Diesel big rig when the motors run on cold electricity?). As a model, I start by analysis of the situtation if the US were to find a new supergiant field of truly epic cyclopian dimensions. Somehow I think this is the wrong approach, since as the owner of such a field I would want to downplay its extent, (to keep prices high). While many have commented on the political aspects of such devices, I now suspect that there are significant effects that have not been appreciated: REALLY cheap electricity would allow resource extraction in surprising places, allow development of "unprofitable" countries (Africa), raise the price of labor, reduce the energy cost of commodities, change the value of oil from an energy source to a feedstock for plastics, dyes, etc, cause an enormous bull market in all industrial metals, accelerate the Chinese Widget Machine. Even gold could be synthesized, but for the moment, let us assume that we are limited to mineable sources.

Yet I think this analysis is misdirected. Nuclear energy was supposed to achieve all this and more. It did not. Perhaps instead, nuclear was only developed as a supplement to the existing electric generating technology portfolio. Just as gold prices are limited to RISE no more than the average mining costs, so too electricity technology is not allowed to FALL much below the next most marginal technology. If that means that reactor design must be complicated (to be inefficient) then that is the political price to be paid. This is only greed of course.

Not only nuclear, but all conventional energy technologies are "manipulated". We could have much better refridgerators but we do not, much better ballast for fluorescent lights but we do not, LED houses instead of only LED flashlights. It seems I am missing several "somethings": unknown economic effects and unknown political realities. There is more here than greed and preservation of priviledge. I have asked What Would Happen, when I should have asked, Why does it not? I have only seen six sides of what I now suspect to be a hypercube.

Democracy, Plutocracy, Cryptocracy. Politics, Geo-politics, Exo-politics, Aethero-politics.

Ultimately, only skilled labor is limited by population. Land too is limited to the surface area of the earth. Solitude might be the rarest of commodities. Political Stability might be a casualty, or more likely it is viability of the human species that would be at risk. Perhaps in such a context, the assertion by others that ALL gold mining would be politically rationed in the future (gold in the ground or in the CB vault) becomes more relevant: Gold sets a limit on man much as Samuel Colt did, but a limit with more civility I hope.

Though the thought now comes that perhaps this is not a "benefit" to protect us from Deep Heaven, but rather the obverse, to protect Deep Heaven from us, but let us leave off that tower of blabbling. I have babbled more than enough, the proximate tale is entitled "Tuluva Malta Isilenna"

Gold to the moon!

GOLD FINGERI talk about gold#1462407/30/06; 20:13:58

I guess if I talked about digging for gold in outer space that would be an acceptable conversation here. Something far out of this world. That's what I noticed a few days ago.

I see I was censored.

It's ok because I am not that political. I just wonder from a regular Joe if the world we live in today is really going to be a world that we can live in TOMORROW!

Now back to the conversation of gold and where to find it?

melda laureGold, serving humanity since at least 2500 BC but probably a lot longer than that#1462417/30/06; 20:35:47

Master Kosares, your date is wanting at least one zero. I saw the nicest little Gold Stater the other day, perhaps I will see if it is still there.

"These are not interesting times, they are frightening times!"

Indeed, sir FL, I should be more afraid. Bakhtiari is correct. But I listen to what he does NOT say.

Snip: There must be some outer limit, and I am beginning to think that maybe the outer limit could be $300 per barrel. I am not so sure yet, because we are entering a brand new era in human history, an era we have not been prepared for at all. For the past six generations, we have been used to having cheap oil always available whenever we wanted it, more or less. Today, in 2006, all of this is beginning to change. We are entering an era in which we know nothing much, where we have a brand new set of rules. I am trying to find out what these new rules are. I have already reached two or three new rules. One of the new rules, in my opinion, is that there will be in the very near future nothing like business as usual. In my opinion, nothing is usual from now on for any of the countries involved. And the lower you are in the pile, the worse it is going to get. END SNIP.

"Know nothing much"?! Is he being evasive or just trying to avoid sensationalism? By Heaven! If the experts refuse to predict the obvious how then can we, mere mortals (to abuse the phrase), discount the markets? What is he so loth to openly express?

Unlike the talking heads on the "conservative news channel" I am NOT worried about an american Hiroshima. That is small potatoes in a post-Katrina world. Read John Christopher's "No Blade of Grass" for a clue to who it is I fear. I must drop out of character, but perhaps some saw the commentary on the History channel regarding Mel Gibson's movie "Mad Maxx". The prologue of the film is quite interesting: "The Big Tribes talked and talked. But they found no answers."

I am speechless:

For example, you have no free market in oil. Naturally, you can go to the NYMEX stock exchange and buy as many barrels as you want at the price of $74 now, but these are paper barrels. If you try to buy 10,000 barrels a day of real oil, of genuine barrels, you will have enormous problems getting that much oil on a regular and sustainable basis. END SNIP.

Why does that sound so familiar? Nous sommes totalments b----es! But THAT is only in the "medium term"! BWAHAHAHA! I am utterly bemarvelled and mazed at humanity.

I am so disgusted that I have seriously considered violating my prime directives (and a few international treaties) and dusting off my T Galen Hieronymous notebooks. Well I am not THAT drunk yet- terrorists and heads of state share this one trait- there is always another idiot cockroach to carry on the same mindless agenda. Well I can at least give them interesting dreams, not that they will listen. Yellume! I am dusting off my ball, Sir Gandy!

Thunder and lightening! Beware of Mr Bush, for what he says, he WILL achieve: if he intends to wean the nation from oil, come what may, then expect hell and high waters for it shall be done, (cajun style perhaps).

GoldiloxPolitics of energy and gold#1462427/30/06; 21:04:56

@ melda laure,

TPTB will not allow "free energy" or any semblance of "free gold" as long as they can manage both to the advantage of their "status quo".

Enormous effort is being expended by TPTB to maintain control of securities, natural resources, and energy distribution and keep them in the hands of the connected few. Thus we see things like no-bid government contracts, ENRON sleights-of-hand in the highest political circles, completely manipulated bubbles in "free markets," and suppressed public economic benchmarks - along with similar abuses in other political analogs.

Popular accumulation of physical metal is threatening to the financial PTB, as it removes control of the PEOPLE's savings from the WIZARD's hands. If it catches on beyond single-digit percentages of populations, it also creates demand the likes of which we have never seen, and hastens accountability of the Money Masters' pyramid-scheme Titanic debtbergs.

This concept is every bit as powerful as the oil demand destruction that "free energy" would create. Both weaken the "debt-based" stronghold of the FIAT masters who manipulate politcal entities to fuel "ideological conflict", keeping general populations at each others' throats.

Partisan politics is the very tool TPTB use to keep us distracted from the REAL global resource story. In this respect, I agree with TC that it is a complete distraction from the fundamental resourse issues.

Buying and holding gold as "savings' is a powerful political statement in itself, as it sends the message that remaining beholden to FIAT serfdom is not an act of patriotism. Owning self-held PMs is REAL savings for TRUE "libertarians" - and I use the small case to specifically differentiate from the political party by the same name.

melda laureVinya Corome Malton#1462437/30/06; 21:07:50

Sir gold finger, I am sorry that you feel silenced. I may be as well and it wouldn't be the first time, nor will I complain, it is the master's perogative.

We have a monetary crisis. But it is by design, and quite profitable for some.

We have an energy crisis, and it too is by design, and like the weather, everybody talks about it but nobody DOES anything about it. As sir ten bears pointed out, we only attack the branches, not the root. For the root is protected by an enormous eye that does not fear nor sleep. And that is why gold is not presently going to the moon on a rocket, but by a slow train. You see, we posses no ring we can cast into the fire. And too many own stock in Sauron Conglomerated.

The dollar is not the property of the US, it is the creature of the FED, and the FED is the creature of the Worldwide Fellowship of Central Banks. Whom it is they serve figures not at all in this instance. The dollar will not be cast into the fire until a New Ring has been forged. And we will be ruled by it, as we were by the other. Mark ye, rule law and order.

I hope this is a golden age, I hope also that it has improved comforts, and not a 1000 yearlong kondratieff decline, but to date nothing in the energy debate consoles me. The slow train wreck is my sole comfort, perhaps that is enough for men, as their lives are short.

For whom the bankers serve are themselves ruled by unknowns. The oily ring they discard. New rings they will devise. And if not, then they will destroy us as Israel to Hamas, so too the Giants to the Earth, "no more floods, fire next time".

The Invisible HandIt is being denied#1462447/30/06; 21:13:05

Central Bank condemns misleading report on RMB [aka Yuan] exchange rate reform
A spokesman of the People's Bank of China recently condemned a business paper report that cited an "authoritarian expert" as saying China could stand a five percent RMB revaluation a year.

melda laureGreat! Now you tell me I'm playing with fire!#1462457/30/06; 22:39:41

I'll be more careful with my next purchase! I try to avoid dangerous political statements, and radical political adventurism (my latest fairy tales here notwithstanding).

Jerusalem- secured.
Gizeh- in hand.
Babylon- good enough.... that leaves Balbeq... Unless I missed someplace, the west hemisphere is next.

Yes, total market manipulation. It is well hidden... ahem... managed. Just the right amount of volatility. I salute your brevity. The weekend is over and I return you to the gold circus, perhaps by next week I will think of something with which to respond.

$634 as of this instant. If Lady Condoleeza is successful, I am hoping for a "fill" below 580, but my local dealer refuses to accept "limit" orders on soveriegns. For the present I tell my coworkers "I am booking a flight FROM denver".

As FOA said "there were still too many dollar holdings to abandon their value entirely" The damage wrought by a potential fire sale was too high. It has been 33 years since 1974. Can Europe now stand up to Russia China and Islam? Can the US play its counterweight role with a dissolved dollar? The answers are Not Yet and Not Sure. The firesale will wait, unlike the Pound, the Dollar World has non-europeans at the gaming table.

Our days as Ants picking golden grains are numbered, but not over yet. Mr Laird is only half right, the train wreck for now. The rocket ride is yet to come.

SundeckPeak oil#1462467/30/06; 23:43:29

Ref phil288 #146234

Thanks for drawing attention to the Hansard record of the Australian Senate's enquiry into Australia's future oil supply and transport needs...rivetting reading and a highly relevant contribution to factors affecting the price of gold, and just about anything else from horse-shoes to jet turbines.

Bakhtiari's matter-of-fact evidence built upon a lifetime's experience (though no doubt contested by some other oil-industry protagonists), to my mind, provides the principal canvas "backdrop" against which to view a great many other geopolitical and economic phenomena unfolding in the world today...phenomena as diverse as the average cost of production per ounce of gold (and its ultimate impact on gold availability and price) to the lengths and resolve that world-powers will go to in order to secure their energy needs.

Whether Bakhtiari is correct in all respects is largely irrelevant. As he observes:

"So these are the two ways you can follow the story, but I will return to the French philosopher
Pascal. He said the best way may be to take a bet and bet that we are right, because the ones who
bet that way have not much to lose. If we are wrong, everything is going to be fine. But, if we
are right, I think the ones who took precautions will be very much rewarded in the future."

In other words, the wise will act now on their strong suspicions...the unwise will defer and likely pay a much greater price.


What is going to be the most used proper noun in the not-so-distant future? Not "Bush", nor "Iraq", nor "Israel":


That's my tip...

The word even has an onamatopaeic hush to it...very appropriate, no?


USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.Especially designed to help those who are taking their first step...#1462477/30/06; 23:57:17">gold ownership starter kit
Black BladeQuality and Number of Posts - And Some oil and PM Comments#1462487/31/06; 00:06:47

I am glad that we are back to focus on PMs and events that effect the markets. The religious and political nonsense was disturbing enough to cause me to not respond to some posts when mixed with some non-related agenda-based nonsense. When the board was more strictly moderated we had quality posters (many I often disagreed with but still respected their opinions) such as Another, FOA, ORO, Aristotle, Aragorn, etc. The list goes on and on.

that said, on another note:

For example, you have no free market in oil. Naturally, you can go to the NYMEX stock exchange and buy as many barrels as you want at the price of $74 now, but these are paper barrels. If you try to buy 10,000 barrels a day of real oil, of genuine barrels, you will have enormous problems getting that much oil on a regular and sustainable basis. END SNIP. - melda laure

One small point, well OK, not so small. Is the quality of oil. In the US we use West texas intermediate (WTI) as our benchmark (note that even North Sea Bfrent sells for more than WTI now). These grades have effectively come close to or have peaked. Better yet, high quality light sweet crude such as "Bonny Light" commands a premium price because it can yeild more gasoline and other petroleum product per barrel. This is found off the west coast of Africa and primarily in Nigeria. Nigerian production is down hard. Then there is heavy, sour and heavy sour crude oil that sells at much lower prices.

First off, light sweet crude oil production has peaked and we use 4 barrels for each one we now discover. Most US refiners need to be upgraded to handle the heavy and heavy sour crude oils because we have an abundance of this low quality crude (at least for now). The best and highest premium comes from "condensate" which is effectively a low grade gasoline you can essentially put into the tank of your car. Obviously this is rather rare. A few US refiners like Citgo, Connoco-Philips, and Valero can refine the low grade crude oils and well positioned, however, many others still require vast amounts of light sweet crude at least for blending agents with the low grade oils. So even as we have an abundance of crappy oil, it is costly to produce.

Here in Wyoming, Montana, and North Dakota the average price for oil is a low $32/bbl. Of course it isn't the high grade oil either. Drilling and new refineries are out of the question now due to NIMBY or BANANA. Same with the transmission grid and pipelines (a major problem for Rocky Mtn. Front oil). It is easier to import low grade Canadian tarsand oil by pipeline after upgrading. On a side note - forget about Shale Oil - not gona happen ever. Coal-to-liquids is still an option but then we are back to the lack of pipeline capacity. Just look at how difficult it is to get drilling offshore of Florida in the Gulf while Cuba has already started drilling only 60 offshore of Florida with one discovery under its belt.

we will see the effects of higher inflation as the price of WTI oil taps $80/bbl by year-end and over $110/bbl next year. It took high oil prices in the 1970's and early 1980's ($90/bbl) in inflation adjusted terms before Nixon got the Alaska pipeline bill passed and construction started. We have a lot more pain to go yet before it is all over and people finally accept that we need a comprehensive energy bill that makes sense. So get that "portfolio insurance" now while Gold and Silver are still undervalued.

Speaking of Gold and Silver. We are fast approaching the Asian Wedding Season, Diwali (Festival of Lights), and then Xmas in december. Jewellers and investors will soon begin to stock up and in the process drive prices higher. I suspect that by mid to late August these buyers will have to "bite the bullet" and start to buy to be able to manufacture product so they can meet their deadlines.

Who knows, the hedge fund guys might jump back in and make a volatile market even more volatile.

As always, get outta debt and stay outta debt, stash enough emergency cash for several months' of household expenses (the bone pile will likely grow ya know), accumulate Gold and Silver "porfolio insurance" while you can, and start a storage program of nonperishable food and basic necessities. Note how using the value of the family home as an ATM is suddenly becoming a big no-no?

- Black Blade

The Invisible Hand???#1462497/31/06; 00:19:54

Black Blade said:
we need a comprehensive energy bill that makes sense.

I see, we need more government intervention in the oil market.
That will increase supply and (thus) lower prices.

Black BladeThe Invisible Hand#1462507/31/06; 00:58:02

Don't get me wrong but we need to push more drilling in high impact production areas, better distribution (grid, tranformers, pipelines, etc.). I agree that we already have too much government intervention, but what I am trying to get at is to streamline the process for drill permits, building pipelines with greater capacity for petroleum products and NatGas, etc. Why no new refineries built in the US since 1976? Simple - liability and regulatory issues. Also, no Super-Giants have been discovered since 1976 (Cantarell Field - already estimated in decline accelerating at nearly 6-7%/year). Ghawar in Saudi? At an acknowledged 30% water cut (at 40% the field is considered dead) - and they have no vertical wells expect for water injection to pressurize. All drilling is multi-directional now.

I already know what more government does. In the Buffalo, Wyoming office they doubled the staff to process drill permits on Fed owned land. The result was adding another layer of bureacracy and slowed the whole process down - just before the big California blackout of 2003. There has to be a way of dismissing fivolous lawsuits that stop domestic exploration and production (this includes renewables).

Another interesting problem is that as a result 127 drill rigs left the US for Saudi Arabia to beef up their own exploration and production efforts (obviously Saudi can't increase reserves). Rig builders can't keep up with orders and are backlogged until 2011.

Still, the price of energy will continue to rise and the effects will trickle down into goods and services. The CPI and PPI are sick jokes because they exclude food and energy. The CPI effectively excludes housing. The best protection is to be very picky with your defensive stock investments and protect yourself with Gold and Silver.

The Twin deficits are not getting any smaller and never will. At some point the world's Central Banks will quickly diversify away from US debt to foreign currencies and hard assets like precious metals.

- Black Blade

I have discussed the energy situation here over 6 years ago and it has played out almost exactly as described.When Gold was below $320/oz. I was a big buyer increasing my buying as the price fell and bought in hard below $270/oz. At that time it cost an average $360/oz. to produce but it was cheaper for the high cost miners to keep mining than to close and reclaim mines. the hedgers got creamed - remember Ashanti Gold, Emperor Gold, and Cambior Gold? The margin calls almost killed them until a white knight showed up. Since then many small miners have long since disappeared. Nice to have a stash of physical in an uncertain world. The mega-hedgers still have a mess on their hands - even Placer Dome had to throw in their lot with Barrick (they only have a couple more years that they can rollover their hedgebook and have been busy handing cash and gold over to their lenders). If you want to invest in miners - stay only with low-cost nonhedgers. At least an ounce of physical Gold in the hand is worth more than a risk of an ounce in the ground. Even at current prices for Gold, the costs of mining have greatly increased as well. Some miners can't even get tires for their Haul-Packs, and the high cost of energy for their "shake and bake" autclaves are hurting them. Sad when some miners can't even make a profit at $700/oz.

- Black Blade

The Invisible HandEurope is a eunuch#1462517/31/06; 01:43:38

Melda Laure asked in yesterday's msg # 146245
Can Europe now stand up to Russia China and Islam?

Russia ('s main, at least politically powerful, part) is part of Europe.

It is thanks to the Muslim empire established under the leadership of Mohammed (570-632) that the Latin world now possesses Greek science.

As Al Farabi (870 – 950) demonstrated the translatio studiorum (the transmission of the Greek studies) occurred with intermission from Alexcandria to Baghdad – the philosophical knowledge was transmitted to the Chaldeans (the ancient inhabitant of Iraq) to the Egyptians, then to the Greeks, then the Syrians and finally to the Arabs. (Alain de Libera,"La philosophie medievale", Presses Universitaires de France, 1998, 3rd.,p.8)

In the years 830, there was in Baghdad the "HOUSE OF WISDOM", an original institution without equivalent in history, where all the translators from the time were assembled. That's where Aristotle's works were translated into Arab. (de Libera, op. cit.,p.73)

It is only in the second translatio studiorum that those studies were transported (transferred – latus is the past participle of ferre, carry) to Europe.

Mencius’ (Meng Zi - 371-289 BC) humanistic political philosophy that stresses the individual rights against the state created a sensation especially in Europe of the 17th century when he declared that unjust rulers could be deposed and challenged.
It is said that the Periode de Lumiere in France, which was followed by the famous French Revolution, came after the ancient Chinese classics were translated into European languages.
(Alfredo P. Co, "Philosophy of Ancient China – The Blooming of a Hundred Flowers", Manila: University of Santo Tomas, 1992, reprinted 2002, p.3050

Here's some writing from Mencius (Legge and Muller are different translators of excerpt which is snipped from Mencius’ Book VI, Part I - Kâo Tsze)

VI. Explanation of Mencius's own doctrine that man's nature is good.
original endowments - are not forced onto us from the outside

-feeling of commiseration, feeling of concern for the well-being of others –
principle of benevolence (Legge) humaneness (Muller)

-feeling/sense of shame and dislike -
principle of righteousness (Legge) rightness (Muller)

-feeling of reverence and respect, the sense to treat others with courtesy and respect -
principle of propriety

- feeling of approving and disapproving, the sense of right and wrong –
principle of knowledge(Legge) wisdom (Muller)

It is said "Seek and you will find them. Neglect and you will lose them"

and if you strive for the actualisation of these endowments,
you must preserve the norms that each thing possesses its principle
and if people embrace these norms of goodness
they can enjoy its (the norm's) spending virtues

Perhaps Europe should examine its history and principles before standing up to anything.

Let the truth prevail. Justice follows automatically.

Laissez faire, laissez passer. Le monde va de lui-meme! (Mercier de la Riviere).

Think of it, and think of section 2 of this message, when you think of Lebanon, Iraq and Iran.

The Invisible HandBlack Blade#1462527/31/06; 02:06:32

My aim was only to show that government screws up everything.
You confirm my point by stressing liability and regulatory issues.
At least in the US of A, the government does not levy, like the EUROPEAN EUNUCHS, exorbitant taxes (as though any tax would be justified on anything) on gas.
And still (or, of course), nobody thinks in Europe of lowering these taxes

contrast this to the Philippines, for example:

MANILA, JULY 18, 2006 (STAR) Malaca--ang [the Office of the President of the Republic of the Philippines} said yesterday it is seriously studying the possibility of temporarily subsidizing pump price discounts that will be extended to public utility vehicles as world crude prices threatened to reach record highs due to conflicts in the Middle East.

(DISCLAIMER: I am NOT saying that by implementing this proposal, the Philippines would NOT be screwing up oil price things in its own way – subsidies cannot possibly be the solution.)

SundeckGold in a win-win position...#1462537/31/06; 03:59:01


"Gold is up, down and round about. The market is interest-rate driven. When the market thinks that the Fed is going to increase interest rates, then the US dollar strengthens and the gold price falls. When the market becomes concerned that the Fed is not going to hike rates, the dollar slips and gold goes up," a London-based trader said.

Sundeck: OK...with debt levels in the US, UK and Australia at extreme levels, and the economy of the US looking pretty shaky, the FED is in a corner.

If it keeps puting up interest rates to encourage overseas buyers of US debt, then it is likely to kill the economy and contribute to the pain of the over-stretched US borrowers (bankrupting many). If the economy tanks, capital will flee the country into, inter alia, gold. The US dollar wll descend rather abruptly and gold will soar.

On the other hand, if the FED does not keep raising rates, foreigners will veer away from US debt sales and the slack will need to be monetised by the FED and its agents. Similar story! The US dollar will descend and gold will soar.

Dear, dear...what is a poor little banker to do? Dum de dum, dum de dum...


SundeckUS debt...Is the USheaded for bankruptcy?#1462547/31/06; 04:32:41


A clear picture emerges of a government completely out of control. The blue line is the history of the US Federal Government debt. The green line shows the path we are now on, with debt soaring to impossible levels against projected GDP. Importantly, the source isn't some crazy hand-waving blogger: these are the US government's own projections—and we all know they have every incentive to accent the positive. If this is the best they can do at this point, then you know things are not just bad, they are calamitous.

Sundeck: Mmmm...nice graph, based upon advice from the Comptroller General of the United States and the Government Accountability Office...

Nah...governments can't go bankrupt (not US-ones anyway)...not when they hold the handle of the printing press.

...and anyway, what if they did? Who's gonna come knockin' at the door demanding payment?

No...the world will keep "dealing Uncle Sam in" until the legs fall off the table with the weight of the worthless chips on top...


SundeckPascua-Lama and Barrick#1462557/31/06; 04:39:09


At a time when the price of gold has risen sharply — it has more than doubled in less than five years, and is now at $635 an ounce — the stakes for Barrick are enormous. In a 2004 legal filing in Canada, the company says that Pascua-Lama, which also contains silver deposits worth an estimated $7.5 billion and some copper, represents "approximately 25 per cent of Barrick's worldwide gold reserves."

Sundeck: Mmmm...Barrick, the big hedger versus the locals who can do without this kind of "development". Looks like things could get interesting...


SundeckStagflation?#1462567/31/06; 04:48:15


"Stagflation is something that has the potential to exist again," said Katharine Pulvermacher, an economist at the producer-funded World Gold Council in London. "Gold offers investors the opportunity to have a little insurance policy," she said.

Sundeck: Stagflation...a stagnant economy with rising prices (falling dollar value)...just like in the '70s...a real possibility.

And that is probably the best one can hope for...

Actually, the economy (GDP) will "grow" in dollar terms, and the stockmarket will "rise" in dollar terms to preserve the illusion while the great big catch-up game is being played out.

God knows what price gold will have at the end of this little fiasco...


SundeckThe five major trends reshaping the world economy#1462577/31/06; 06:02:36


The science of modern central banking is really nothing more than trying to figure out how to surreptitiously inflate the currency. When people catch on, the magic no longer works. Instead of increasing production, in response to greater apparent demand (more dollars), businessmen merely increase prices. Stagflation it is called. We won't dwell on it here.

We only bring it up to show that this experimental monetary system is unlikely to be a permanent money system. No money system is ever permanent. And one not firmly attached to things of real value – such as gold –cannot be expected to last long. Thirty five years is already a record. Our guess is that it has only a few years left. In other words, this is a trend that is going to continue until it comes to an end. And the end it comes to will be the same as all such experiments. The world's dollar-based monetary system…with the dollar floating on nothing but air…will collapse and be replaced with something else. When, how…at what cost? We don't know… but judging from the way in which the quantity of dollars, debt, and derivatives has increased over the last 10 years, we guess that the change will come in crisis…within 10 years…and accompanied by much pain.

Sundeck: Another not-so-cheery narration of the world's woes...the dollar, the "empire" and everything...

Mmmmm...seems to be an upsurge in this sort of thing just in the last day or so...


GoldiloxZambezi Falls?#1462587/31/06; 09:49:13

Lots of negative dollar rhetoric in the press lately.

A number of pundits seem to believe that dollar devaluation is a near-certainty.

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MONDAY Market Excerpts

Gold ends lower on day, up 3% on month

July 31 (from MarketWatch) -- Gold futures closed slightly lower Monday, to end July with a gain of about 3%, with metals traders remaining cautious about developments in the Middle East and hashing over what to expect from next week's Federal Reserve monetary-policy meeting.

The August contract closed down 60 cents at $634.20 after trading in a range of $627 to $635.80. [The most-active December contract ended down $1.00 at $646.80.]

Tensions in the Middle East remained high after an Israeli air attack on the town of Qana over the weekend left scores of Lebanese civilians dead, including about 40 children.

The bombing sparked global outrage, prompting Israel to suspend its air raids on Lebanon for 48 hours.

Meanwhile, lingering fears that the Federal Reserve will raise interest rates one more time at its meeting scheduled for Aug. 8 are also pressuring gold, he said. A key central-bank official, St. Louis Federal Reserve Bank president William Poole, earlier pegged the odds of an Aug. interest-rate hike at 50-50.

August is also the month during which traders expect to see a resumption of physical buying of gold by jewelers as they prepare for the holiday season.

Peter Grandich, editor of The Grandich Letter, said he expects August to be the month in which gold breaks above key resistance between $640 to $660, pushed there by dollar weakness, global political concerns and strong demand.

---(see url for full news, 24-hr newswire)---

GOLD FINGERThese hedge funds worry me....#1462617/31/06; 17:46:36


From what I have been reading here over the last few months with all the topics ranging from: Government influence, mining operations, supply, demand, oil and oil exploration, interest rates and wars, the economy in general, GOLD'S future is really at the demise of the hedgers or so called "hedge funds"???

Meaning even if inflation is up and the dollar is down and all the other conditions are ripe for gold to be well over 700 (by now) these power hedgers can keep it suppressed and down at their will?

Then this to me shows the extreme volatility of gold! I will keep guying it, but how is it so secure? Just a thought??

TownCrierOil, Money/Banking, and Gold (shortages) in Iran...#1462627/31/06; 17:48:43

HEADLINE: China Co. Signs $2.7b Refinery Upgrade Project

TEHRAN, July 31-- According to ILNA, Mohammad Reza Nematzadeh, managing director of the National Iranian Oil Refining and Distribution Company, on the sidelines of a ceremony to sign a contract for developing Arak's major Shazand Refinery, the two-billion-euro ($2.7b) project is the biggest joint venture with China.

Iranian contractors have won over 65 percent of the project, whereas the rest has been awarded to Sinopec, China's energy giant.

Nematzadeh said the contract is aimed at increasing the country's gasoline production capacity.

...He said the project will also help improve the quality of the refined products and bring them in line with the European standards

...the first phase ... will be completed in three years.

HEADLINE: Banking Services Unacceptable

TEHRAN, July 31--Irrespective of its well-established history, Iran's banking system has turned into a lucrative business for trading hard cash.

Mohammad Reza Sabzalipour, head of Iran Exporters’ Society told Fars News Agency that banking system in Iran was born at a time when some of the presently developed nations not only had not started their banking activities, but rather banks did not even exist in their countries.

"With almost one century of experience in banking, a country like Iran was expected to be a flag bearer and a role model for other nations. However, it has failed to find its proper status among other nations. It is unfortunate that our banks are systematically falling behind many newly-born countries when it comes to offering quality services."

Bank in the proper sense of the word has a specific definition and obligations, the official noted. "Its primary objective is and must be to improve the quality of services rather than increasing its turnover. Indeed, customer satisfaction is the main objective of any and all banks in the developed world."

Sabzalipour recalled that there have been major changes in Iran's banking system, particularly after the victory of Islamic Revolution in 1979, following which all banks were nationalized and many private and state-owned banks merged.

"As a consequence the banking system emerged as a monopoly of the state at the expense of the private sector. Economic developments, rustications of commerce and trade and the Iraqi-imposed war (1980-88) translated into limitations for banks and their operations inside the country.

In circumstances like these it was obvious that few would expect too much from banks and their personnel."

Head of the export center concluded that banking or trade in money in Iran is now a lucrative business. "As long as access to monetary facilities is lower than public demand for it and nepotism and relations take precedence over regulations, the sorry state of banking affairs will not improve and customer satisfaction will remain a far cry."

HEADLINE: TME Can Regulate Gold Prices

TEHRAN, July 31-The Tehran Metal Exchange (TME) could be transformed into the country's hub for gold and jewelry if the government lifts the three-percent tax aggregate.

Kourosh Goharbin, who heads the Gold, Jewelry and Foreign Exchange Association, told Moj news agency that the TME could help regulate market prices in accordance with international prices of precious metals once the grounds are prepared for conducting such deals at the exchange.

Pointing to the fact that there are 50,000 gold and jewelry shops in Iran, Goharbin said the industry has created a total of 300,000 jobs.

Goharbin said the gold and jewelry can be found in every Iranian household primarily as a saving and a form of investment, adding that the metals are also seen as a strong backing for the national economy.

The lucrative jewelry industry is facing shortage of raw materials, including gold bars and precious stones, he said, and added that the issue has also been taken up in parliament.

Goharbin called for the eliminating restrictive laws, cutting red tape and curbing the bloated bureaucracy...

^---(from url)---^

Worth a repeat:
" and jewelry can be found in every Iranian household primarily as a saving and a form of investment, adding that the metals are also seen as a strong backing for the national economy."

" facing shortage of raw materials, including gold bars..."

Will they follow the leading (inter)national example (eurosystem) and lift the taxation on gold metal investment? It is extremely noteworthy that so many nations have appeared in the news with this particular consideration.


TownCrierHEADLINE: Gold appeals as investors fear return of stagflation#1462637/31/06; 17:56:02

July 31, 2006 -- Gold looks set to extend its gains this week on demand from investors who are concerned that a slowing U.S. economy and rising consumer prices will create stagflation for the first time since the early 1980s.

Twenty-one of 35 traders, investors and analysts surveyed by Bloomberg News advised buying gold...

"Investors have bought into gold as a way of managing risk," Pulvermacher said. During periods of stagflation, "people become far more interested in real assets, and gold is a real asset."

... Gold has gained 25 percent this year while the dollar has fallen 6.3 percent against a basket of six currencies.

^---(from url)---^

FOA pointed it out long ago: when it comes to "leverage", all you'll want, all you'll need, is in PHYSICAL gold.


TownCrierGold can add a little bit of lustre to the portfolio#1462647/31/06; 18:16:19

Gold has been a source of inspiration for generations. From poets and philosophers to wedding couples and engineers, gold is a truly precious metal, writes Conal Gregory

Yorkshire Post -- With its rarity and durability, gold has historically been a method of payment although few of today's central bankers believe John Milton, who wrote: "Time will run back and fetch the age of gold."

Today it is used in the portfolios of both private investors and fund managers, as well as collected in its own right.

Only last month Spink & Son sold a 14th century gold florin, known as a double leopard, for £460,000 -- although the weight was just 6.98gm.

In May gold hit its highest price for 20 years at $725 per troy ounce while the lowest recorded in that time was $252.80 on July 1999. The all- time high was $850 in 1980.

Even in the last 12 months it has jumped from $422.35 to $720.20 per oz. While antique coins may be out of most investor's reach, gold can be physically held as bars or more modern coinage.

As the price often moves independently of other assets, it makes for a useful diversification.

When purchased for investment purposes, one further attraction is that gold is exempt from VAT.

Shares in gold mining companies can be exciting to follow but sometimes lag behind the price of gold.

Before investing, ask your stockbroker or financial adviser if the company has sold its future gold output forward, if it mainly mines for gold, how many years of ore reserve are left, what economic and political risks are there and the dividend and price-earnings ratio.

Rather than invest in individual mining firms, a safer way is...

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SmeagolCynical, yess... but can you blame uss?#1462657/31/06; 18:24:20

From Ssir Town Crier's earlier Post:

" and jewelry can be found in every Iranian household primarily as a saving and a form of investment, adding that the metals are also seen as a strong backing for the national economy."

Our firsst thought upon reading thiss was, "Ach, sso THAT's why the US wants Iran so badly, eh precious?" Among other things, like oil. Ssss...


GOLD FINGERGold naturaly Cynical?#1462667/31/06; 18:34:56

Is this an emotion that rocks the world? I wonder if GOLD is the new weapon of mass destruction. You would of thought we would have gone after this a long time ago...say in the 70's!

Smeagol (7/31/06; 18:24:20MT - msg#: 146265)

SundeckNew Zealand introduces new coinage#1462677/31/06; 18:47:02


The latest change introduces plated-steel coins, just as the price of copper has risen 75 percent in the last 12 months, Boaden said.

Low-value coins made from nickel and copper are beginning to cost more to make than their face value -- a situation currently confronting the U.S. penny, each of which cost U.S. 2.1 cents to mint.

Sundeck: The sooner this happens in Australia the better, as well. Our fifty cent cupro-nickle coin is akin to a boat anchor, and its metal content is probably more than face value with the present price of copper and nickel. and the 5c piece is essentially fact the 10c piece is almost useless as well...such is the fate of fiat...been happening since people became people and realised that they could screw one another by debasing the medium of exchange...


Mr. GoldfingerThe USD#1462687/31/06; 18:47:50

Technically the dollar is at a decision point here. Will it form an inverted Head and Shoulders bottom on the way to 100 or breakdown below .80 making a Head and Shoulders top on the way to .40. Fundamentally the US is isolating itself from all the civilized countries in the world. The USD is no longer the reserve currency. Russia, China, Venezuela are moving away from the dollar. The US has just about sucked Mexico dry of oil and is now working on Canada. Funny they should drain Mexico of oil but not allow Mexicans to work in the US. They want to build a fence along the Mexican border but ensure the oil pipelines still flow through it. Buy gold, one day your dollars will be worthless.
MKAnyone out there#1462697/31/06; 19:24:06

thinking oil embargo?
The Invisible Handfuel on the fire#1462707/31/06; 19:53:50
Russia has put a 5,000-rouble banknote back into circulation - but insists that it is to meet the demands of rising real incomes, not inflation.
Record temperatures across the US turned the natural gas market on its head on Monday – forcing prices up 14 per cent as many analysts were predicting a supply glut could send them lower.
Mr Bayazitoglu said investors will be watching closely when inventories are reported this Thursday. "If we get another draw down, that will put more fuel on the fire.’’

The Invisible Hand1973 oil embargo was offensive, not defensive, weapon#1462717/31/06; 20:06:17

What I find difficult to understand about this is why when protesters lament the big, bad USA and their designs to control the oil market, nobody seems to bother looking at how other countries weaponize the oil market as well. Does anyone really believe that OPEC had only defensive measures in mind when they instituted an oil embargo in 1973? You may recall that the embargo by OPEC, led by Saudi Arabia, was triggered because of overt American support for Israel at the time of the Yom Kippur War (which Israel didn't start mind you). The embargo was an attack, no different than planes being crashed into skyscrapers, on the economies of the Western world and the United States specifically. It was a particularly potent weapon as it changed geopolitics throughout the modern for decades to come and the way we conduct business in the Middle East today.

I'm not sure this corresponds to my opinion, but Google News says this was posted within the last hour. And what's value of my opinion, anyway?

ArmageddonOil Embargo#1462727/31/06; 20:07:36

I am thinking more on the lines of a nuclear war in the Middle East. I think Israel realizes that America is declining economically so steeply that soon America won't be able to provide the 4 billion dollars a year it takes to maintain Israel's military superiority against its enemies. Recently, I think there was a former Fed chairman writing an article saying that America may be bankrupt. If this is the case Israel feels it needs to completely wipe out Syria, Iran, and other enemies right NOW when it is strong and has the support of the Bush administration. The only way to do this in the limited time it has is through the complete destruction of enemy infrastructure and nuclear weapons. I believe the war is going to spread to Syria, Iran, Iraq and the whole Middle East in the next few months.
MKActually, IH. . .#1462737/31/06; 20:09:32

I'm sure I speak for many when I say that I greatly appreciate your opinion. And I didn't know the connection between the Yom Kippur War and the previous embargo. You've just added to my understanding and reinforced a train of thought I've only now begun to entertain.
SundeckThis and that...#1462747/31/06; 20:14:56

1. Japan's industrial production climbed to a record in June.

2. China clamps down on foreign investment in real estate (and imposes stricter controls in severral other areas).

3. Iran's Armadinejad awards Venezuela's Chavez Iran's highest national medal for being a good bloke and supporting Iran's nuclear stance and calling W an evil man... WOW, don't you just love the maturity and quality of our global leaders: "The axis of evil versus the axis of weasel."

4. Talk of ending the US trade embargo with Cuba:


Kirby Jones, founder and president of the U.S.-Cuba Trade Association in Washington, D.C., which has long sought an end to the trade ban, says the reality of Cuba as an oil producer makes the embargo too costly a policy to keep.

Cuba has been oil hunting, not always successfully, for decades.

In July 2004, however, the Spanish oil company Repsol-YPF, in partnership with Cuba‘s state oil company, CUPET, identified five fields it classified as "high-quality" in the deep water of the Florida Straits, 20 miles northeast of Havana.

Seven months later, a report by the U.S. Geological Survey U.S. Geological Survey confirmed it: The North Cuba B, , ), R-Ariz., , , ), R-Idaho, introduced twin bills to the House and Senate that would exempt Big Oil from the embargo.

Before introducing his legislation, Craig told a reporter that "prohibition on trade with Cuba has accomplished just about zero." Ominously, he added: "China, as we speak, has a drilling rig off the coast of Cuba." (The senator failed to mention that the Chinese are working in shallow water near Cuba‘s shore, and possess neither the technology nor the expertise to tap Cuba‘s promising deep-water reserves.)

As a prominent man once said: "When it comes to money, all men are of one religion."...and the same may be said of oil.

5. As I prepare this post, Sir MK asks about an oil embargo...a few quick comments (along with 4 above).

Mmmm...not much on the net, other than a couple of vague references to Iran possibly implementing an embargo to send the prices rocketing. Chavez has specifically ruled it out (for what that's worth). With supply so tight, I suspect everyone is going out of their way to avoid speaking of this devil...but they are probably thinking about it big-time. Saudi Arabia keeps insisting that they have enough swing capacity, but I wonder whether this is just a ploy to attemt to convince any rebel producers of the futility of witholding supply??? Markets don't appear to be smelling "oil embargo" just will become very apparent when they do.



The Invisible HandPosted within the last 7 hours#1462757/31/06; 20:17:12

Republishing an article of November 2004

Energie et population: L’Iran avertit qu’il utilisera l’arme pétrolière en cas de sanctions de l’ONU

NDLR: Rappel d'un article qui date de novembre 2004.

Ali Akbar Nateq-Nuri, proche conseiller du dirigeant iranien Ali Khamenei, a déclaré hier au correspondant du journal The Australian que si le pays devait répondre de son programme nucléaire devant la Conseil de sécurité de l’ONU, l’embargo pétrolier qu’il mettrait en place pourrait propulser le prix du pétrole au-delà de 100 dollars le baril.

Iran will use the oil weapon in the event of UN sanctions
This could result in a price of oil of $100 bbl.

The Invisible HandPosted four years ago#1462767/31/06; 20:57:00

The idea of an oil embargo is slowly gaining ground in the Muslim world as it attempts to freeze out Israel, and whose powerful allies in Europe and the US rely on Middle Eastern oil.
If Iraq, Iran and others use their "oil weapon", they may just end up shooting themselves in the foot.

Druid(No Subject)#1462777/31/06; 20:59:12

Druid: Watching an interesting program on Discovery Times channel concerning Newmont Mining and their business practices' in Latin America, specifically, Peru. Given the awakening that is happening throughout all of Latin America concerning the REAL value over natural resources, and paraphrasing what ANOTHER suggested, gold in the ground might have to rest for awhile. The current geopolitical climate will evolve embargoes of all sorts.
GOLD FINGERGreat BALLS of FIRE!#1462787/31/06; 21:08:22

Instead of an embargo why don't we just boycott the use of petroleum or oil for a day. Do this once a week!!

Imagine if everyone in this country/world did that?

I guess we are still to holy to stop driving our fabiolus Cadillac SUV's. How worthless they will become when you can't afford to fill it.

I am trying not to get political, but with so many round about references here it's hard to resist.


P.S. Did you hear about the huge and catastrophic oil spill that Russia had. They say the environmental damage will be irreversible.

P.S.S. The heat wave continues and so do the power outages.
What could this be a sign of??

The Invisible HandNo comment#1462797/31/06; 21:13:02

C.N.E.W.A.[Catholic Near East Welfare Association]'s Beirut-based staff has surveyed displacement centers in Jbeil, Kesserwan and Metn and report urgent need for drinking water, powdered milk, blankets, canned food, soap, detergents and sponge mattresses. WITHIN THE NEXT 10 TO 15 DAYS, CRITICAL SHORTAGES OF FUEL OIL AND GASOLINE, food supplies and drinking water will affect the entire country—Lebanon is cut off from the rest of the world.

The Invisible HandU.S. Senator calls for immediate cease-fire in Lebanon#1462807/31/06; 21:29:21
A leading U.S. Republican senator urged U.S. President George W. Bush on Monday to call for an immediate cease-fire between Israel and the Lebanese Hezbollah. "The sickening slaughter on both sides must end now. President Bush must call for an immediate cease-fire. This madness must stop," Senator CHUCK HAGEL said on the Senate floor.
Hagel is a possible contender for the Republican nomination for president in 2008.
He called on Bush to name "a statesman of global stature" as his personal envoy to the region. And he urged the administration to open direct talks with Hezbollah's backers, Iran and Syria, both of which Washington also accuses of meddling in Iraq.
Meanwhile, the decorated Vietnam veteran said the United States "is bogged down in IRAQ," limiting U.S. diplomatic and military options. Last week's announcement that more than 3,000 more American troops were needed to reinforce Baghdad amid rising sectarian violence was "a dramatic setback," he said.He said the 3-year-old war is wearing badly on the U.S. military, and that Iraq's fledgling democracy needs to take over more of its security responsibilities from American troops."This is not about setting a timeline," Hagel said. "This is about understanding the implications of the forces of reality."
CUBAN leader Fidel Castro has undergone surgery and temporarily handed power to his brother Raul.


......also why is it important for Israel to exercise restraint? This war has been going on for centuries. It's part of the Jewish belief that the Hezbollah sect are the descendants of Amalekites. I also read that many of the modern day roman's are also descendants. Lucky the pope is German!

I do feel that this time they (Israel) is DEAD SERIOUS! Wouldn't you if everyone kept trying to kill you?

RE:The Invisible Hand (7/31/06; 21:13:02MT - msg#: 146279)

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