USAGOLD Gold Discussion Forum Archive

Electronic reproduction sourced from
SlowmanSilver and Anderson verdict#1327426/1/05; 05:35:17

Silver is truly in shorter supply. I hustle gold and silver for fun and something to do while being retired. Problem is I continue to find lesser amounts all the time. I check pawn shops and coin dealers. Less and less continues to come in !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Scrap gold seems to be plentiful with the economy the way it is. BUY SILVER and ride the opportunity of a life time. Shorts to bleed badly shortly. I expect the hedge funds to start taking delivery of an already scarce silver product. It can NOT become instantly available.
Then theres the Nanotech silver that is going to be used by the aiaians for washers , dryers, and other appliances that will be nonrecoverable. Curad new silver band aid will use lots and its non recoverable. Remember it takes about 5 years to bring on a mine, so its ALL in our favor.
But, do not own silver paper !!!! Those that do may have a rude awakening when its not there.Own PHYSICAL !!!!
As for Arthur Anderson jury problem ::: ALL the more reason to DEMAND trial by JURY and NOT a jury trial. Judge is not suppose to instruct a trial by jury.

knotakarere: Slowman#1327436/1/05; 06:40:47

Slowman, are you the guy who lives down South? I had a discussion with someone about timberlands in Alabama a couple of years ago, and I was wondering if it was you?

There have been some remarkable developments here in my area of the upper midwest. I don't have time this morning to go into it, but I may this evening.

best regards,


physicalmanknotacare#1327446/1/05; 06:56:32

That was me knotacare. I have to confirm what slowman is saying, i am picking up nowhere near the amounts at pawnshops in the south that i did 3-5 years ago. Those with little means have very little left to sell, save their mortgaged house and cars. The pawnshops of the south are being replaced by title loan and paycheck-cashing services. Lots of folks cannot even live paycheck to paycheck anymore
Listen to the words of black blade and was it trapper that end his posts with " Live Small"?

USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.Proven Reliability, Longevity, Quality and Professionalism ---- Invest with Confidence!!#1327456/1/05; 08:37:55

GoldiloxStandard of Living attacks#1327466/1/05; 09:16:06


We have long argued that with the country now in the first phases of a 10-year long Second Depression that the first leg down which started with the dotcom implosion would be well masked by wars (happen to notice any?) but that the real truth of matters would be apparent in the gradual and sometimes not-too-gradual declines suffered by American workers. Today, a few more things to boost our case.
United Airlines Machinists are giving the company huge pay cuts as recommended by union leadership. There's no doubt about it - if an airline can welch on its pension plan, they have tremendous leverage with remaining employees, but it's all part of the pattern of declining standards of living.
In bankruptcy leaning San Diego, city workers are looking at major pay cuts in order to help deliver city services and keep things from collapsing. Not to pick on San Diego as the problem is definitely global in nature...
War in Iraq has not improved the average worker's situation.
To put numbers to it, if you head over to and put in the words [ pay cut ] you will find 21,900 references. [pay raise ] returns 15,900 but a good portion of the stories are about how a pay raise was killed, deferred, postponed and the like.
What confounds me is that people don't have much focus on things like the standard of living because if they did, we wouldn't see the amazing attention paid to things like the Michael Jackson trial that we do.


George hits the nail squarely on this piece. The one area where I disagree with him is the effect of the war on workers' plight. How much is the "permanent" deployment of reservists relieving unemployment pressures at home?

GoldiloxClarification#1327476/1/05; 09:20:00

OK, after reading George's piece again, I guess I don't disagree, but my point is, how much worse would these figures be with a couple hundred thousand more workers at home looking for jobs.
GoldiloxUS-EU Declare "Air War"#1327486/1/05; 09:25:51


The biggest trade war ever between America and Europe exploded today over airplane subsidies.

At the World Trade Organization, US trade officials claimed EU governments planned to offer Airbus nearly $2 billion USD in low-interest loans, to help that company launch its A350 jetliner, according to an AP report.

European officials retaliated by contending Boeing has received over $7 billion in tax incentives and other support. Both airlines have prodded their respective governments into facing off at the WTO.

Boeing has the early lead, as it has launched the 787 successfully. Airbus needs to bring out the A350 to keep up, and needs the financial backing of EU governments to do it.

The dispute doesn't show any promise for being resolved quickly. US officials consider the EU's loans to Airbus an unfair subsidy, one which Airbus would not have to pay back until the new plane became a money maker.


While all eyes are on the trade imbalance with China, trade wars for the remaining durable goods not manufactured there are heating up. Many have suggested that protectionism will be the straw that breaks the camel's back in this poor global economy.

mikal@Goldilox#1327496/1/05; 09:37:49

Protectionism may be ACCUSED of being 'the straw that breaks the camels back'. Many establishment shills are already saying it's 'the greatest threat' etc. But what kind of barriers will a there proposed 'solutions' break down to repair the damage? What kind of globalism do they REALLY want to install? Who stands to gain the most? Who to lose?
Great Albino BatGoldilox: The End of the American Dream is nigh...#1327506/1/05; 09:42:32

That Dream was - "Just One of Those Things"...

It was just one of those things,
Just one of those crazy flings,
One of those bells that now and then rings,
Just one of those things.

It was just one of those nights,
Just one of those fabulous flights,
A trip to the moon on gossamer wings,
Just one of those things

If we'd thought a bit
Of the end of it,
When we started painting the town,
We'd have been aware
That our love affair
Was too hot not to cool down.
So goodbye, Dear, and Amen.
Here's hoping we meet now and then,
It was great fun,
But it was just one of those things.


PS - Bonds streaking upward in value, long term interest rate is collapsing way below 4% (have not checked other boards) and the "Yield Curve" is now inverted - costs less to borrow long-term than short term.

I suspect we shall read very interesting comments on this situation, which I think is quite ominous and intuitively I think that the great speculators, borrowing short and lending long for an interst gain, are now upside-down.

There must be a great upheaval in all derivative positions and perhaps we shall begin to hear about massive Hedge Fund problems. But, this is beyond my scope, let us wait for comments from more informed lurkers and posters, on this interesting development.


GoldiloxYield inversion and collapse#1327516/1/05; 10:30:32

@ GAB and mikal,

GAB, I have been watching the bond pits as well. The difference between 5 and 10 year yields is less than a quarter percent - both under 4%. Today, while the SM is up triple digits, we're still witnessing "flight to quality" in the bond pits. What's that about?


While I am not a fan of globalism, as I watch US jobs evaporate, government protectionism helps no one, as it staves off the deflation that rebalances excesses. Tariffs only add to the purse of the manipulators by keeping prices artificially high at the expense of consumers. Solutions must be better than this.

While we get "lip service" about how US technological superiority will pull us out of the doldrums, any independent researchers like McCanney, Searl, Hutchinson, are not only finding resistance from official sources, but the government disinformation squads are attacking their websites, banning them from "public" research data and setting up copycat sites to misdirect people with misinformation garbage - your tax dollars at work.

The technologies that might drag us into the 21st century also threaten the duopoly M-I complex that Ike warned about, and they prefer to kill us all with AIDs, flus, drugs, smog and water pollution before they allow any independent technologies to risk their oligarchy.

Back to Bucky Fuller - when more than 50% of GDP is spent on ways to destroy society (in the name of security of course), the risk of annihilation exceeds any potential for growth.

MAD only works as a deterrent so long. At some point, "crying wolf" fails and someone launches. We're so concerned about Iran or North Korea obtaining a single nuke, while we pummel the Mid-east with tons of nuclear waste in the name of "spreading freedom". Viet-Nam era vets came home with Agent Orange and Blue cancers, and TPTB blamed all their ills on the psychological trauma of "not winning the war". How will they explain away the irradiated lungs of Gulf War vets? The stock solutions from Big Pharma is more anti-depressants, pain meds that weaken the heart, and ED drugs that make us go blind - all while the admin lobbies for reduced liability for these loyal campaign contributors.

The picture is bleak, indeed.

What can we do?

1) recognize and fund alternative energy research
2) recognize and fund alternative medicine - drugs aren't the only answer
3) regulate the derivatives industry
4) demand transparency from commodities and securities markets
5) demand more transparency from government (secret energy policy committees?)
6) demand true BLS and and FED data

Radical perhaps, but the alternatives look to be fatal.

TownCrierThe Euro and the World Economy#1327526/1/05; 10:35:37

excerpts of an April 27 speech by C. Fred Bergsten, Director of Institute for International Economics, delivered for a conference at the ECB....

The dollar has been the world's dominant currency for over a century chiefly because it had no competition, but the advent of the euro changes that situation dramatically.

Indeed, the euro's share already exceeds that of the dollar in the denomination of global financial assets excluding derivatives and approximates the dollar's share when derivatives are included.

However, no single benchmark security, or yield curve, has developed to rival the US Treasury bill and other US government assets. The pace at which Euroland overcomes these shortcomings will play a major role in the timing of the euro's further rise in international asset allocation.

The exchange rate of the euro is in any event likely to rise considerably further over the coming months and years.

But as a result of the further dollar depreciation that is needed to help reduce the huge US current account deficit, the euro will continue to experience a disproportionate share of global currency appreciation if Asian countries continue to resist adjustment of their own currencies -- the inevitable portfolio diversification from dollars to euros stemming from the latter's growing global role.

To achieve a more constructive outcome, the United States must reduce its budget deficit, the United States and Euroland must insist that the International Monetary Fund enforce its rules against currency manipulation in Asia, and Europe and Japan must stimulate the expansion of domestic demand in their economies.

Additionally, Euroland and the United States should create a new "finance G-2" to manage the world's two key currencies and prevent destabilizing currency swings.

^-----(see pdf URL for text of speech)----^

Fred, a "G-2"? Are you serious?? You are looking to make this more difficultly convoluted and politically asymmetrical than it need be.

To dissipate the extreme pressure of singularly extreme appreciation off of the back of the euro subsequent to the event of a diversification shift away from dollar reserves, the time would be at hand to implement a new reserve paradigm.

That is, rather than having the Asian countries accumulate euro reserves in replacement of dollar reserve (and thus merely shifting the geography of the current problem), the timing would be right to spring the international solution in which the mark-to-market regime of undiluted (physical) gold reserves was brought into universal practice, thus avoiding much unwanted upward pressure on euro-denominated assets.

Looking down the road, each country could/would maintain a degree of control (taxation and quotas) over the fate of its own national gold production (if any) and its flow, they could participate in the international market, and just as importantly, from a political standpoint for those (Latin Ams, Africans, Asians(?)) that prefer to inflate under their own counsel, they indeed retain their powers of prudent or wanton currency emission and continue to face the expected exchange-rate consequences vis à vis their neighbors' currencies.

Bergsten conveniently reminds us that Robert Mundell (1998) said on the eve of the creation of the euro:

"It would be a mistake to ignore [the fact that] in the last 15 years US current
account deficits have turned the US from the world's biggest creditor to its
biggest debtor.…The low-saving high-debt problems will one day come home to
roost.…There will come a time when the pileup of international indebtedness
makes reliance on the dollar as the world's only main currency untenable.…The
fact that the bulk of international reserves is held in dollars makes the currency a
sitting duck in a currency crisis.…Sole reliance on the dollar as the main
reserve, invoice and intervention currency presents risks that are no longer

In fact, under the premise of MTM undiluted (unleased) gold reserves, it is no longer necessary that a transactional (invoice) currency must be expected or called-upon to do double duty as a reserve for intervention or as a means of storing value.

The dollar, as an international jack-of-all-trades, is poised to fall. And when it does, the euro or (or any other suitably large and stable currency) will slip in to fill the transactional/invoicing niche, and gold will rise to fill the reserve niche.

Bank on it.

Please read this speech. Fred doesn't quite grasp the solution (as I have tried to lay out), but he does a tidy job at describing the nature of the existing problem and the strains of imminent evolution to another paradigm.


GoldiloxAg action#1327536/1/05; 10:35:59

@ Rich, et al,

Speaking of "Flight to Quality", the action in the silver pit continues, and gold support is strong.

GoldiloxEURO - $ competition#1327546/1/05; 10:40:50

@ TC,

Your quote,

"Indeed, the euro's share already exceeds that of the dollar in the denomination of global financial assets excluding derivatives and approximates the dollar's share when derivatives are included."

Tells quite a tale.

If the $ is hanging on to greater trade acceptance strictly thru derivative dissemination, the Buffett "weapons of Mass Financial Destruction" are being wielded.

Not a good sign, either, IMHO.

Goldilox$- Gold#1327556/1/05; 10:44:20

The last time the DX was at 88, gold was stuck below $400 in the $390 area.

Mid July-mid Aug 2004

geCRB Index will rebalance its component weightings monthly#1327566/1/05; 10:52:32

TownCrierWGC: Exceptionally strong demand for gold in First Quarter 2005#1327576/1/05; 11:58:26

New York, London, 1 June 2005: The first quarter of 2005 saw exceptionally strong demand for gold, particularly from the jewellery sector, from bar and coin purchases and from investment in gold backed exchange traded funds (ETFs), according to quarterly figures released today by the World Gold Council.

End-user consumption (which includes all identifiable categories of demand) was 26% higher in tonnage terms and 32% higher in dollar terms, compared to the same period in 2004.

With consumers now accustomed to gold prices over $400/oz, and a growing consensus that the price of gold could rise further, the small retreat in the gold price from the peaks seen in Q4’04 was seen as a strong buying opportunity.

For much of the first quarter the price fluctuated between $420-440/oz.

Anecdotal reports suggest demand rose strongly when the price fell towards the lower end of this range.

[Randy's note: With high consumption as gold hovered above $420, it certainly makes you realize that investors are likely eagerly gobbling up the present opportunity to purchase now in the teens.]

Consumer demand trends in individual countries:

INDIA: Net retail investment more than double that of the same period in 2004, helped by investors looking for alternative investments to place gains from the stock market rally of 2004.

CHINA: Net retail investment was 36% higher in tonnage terms than a year earlier, due to the impact of the deregulation of the retail investment market as well as concerns over the poor performance of the Shanghai stock market and perceptions of an over heated property market.

JAPAN: The economic climate remains favourable towards gold investment, with an undercurrent of concern over the level of public debt and its inflationary implications, as well as the pension crisis. The limits applied to bank deposit insurance guarantees from April 2005 are an additional positive factor for gold.

TURKEY: Exceptional 31% year-on-year rise in investment, with 9 tonnes sold in March alone.

^-----(from press release accessible at url)-----^

Compared to these performances, the western world remains a "weak sister" in terms of contribution to demand, perhaps an interim legacy of lackadaisical awareness due to recent privileges of asymmetrically strong currency units. How long can the condition remain so seriously out of balance?


GoldiloxCurrent Account Deficit - Casey#1327586/1/05; 11:59:43


I think the US trade deficit will lead to a weaker dollar. That means alternatives to US-dollar-denominated assets must be an important part of a portfolio. The US avoided a serious recession in 2001 by letting the consumer expand his spending by borrowing. We now have more debt than ever, not only internationally as described above, but also for government, and for mortgages. If foreigners were to consider other options for holding these dollars, there could be a glut of dollars in the world that would drive the exchange rate downward and prices in the US upward. If inflation rises, US interest rates could rise, and many parts of the economy could turn down, like housing, stocks and consumer spending. Because of the size of the amounts involved, and the speed of today's currency and interest rate markets, the shift could move very fast in a downward spiral.


Interesting analysis of the Current Account Deficit by Casey, drawing support from Summers' talks.

SurvivorGold and Oil Top the News in Zimbabwe Report#1327596/1/05; 12:07:13

Wednesday, June 1, 2005 Posted: 7:33 AM EDT (1133 GMT)

HARARE, Zimbabwe (Reuters) -- Zimbabwe police have arrested more than 22,000 people as a fierce blitz on illegal stores and shantytowns . . . . the state Herald newspaper said Wednesday.

"We have so far arrested a total of 22,735 people and recovered 33.5 kilograms of gold from 47 illegal gold panners and 26,000 liters of fuel," Assistant Police Commissioner Wayne Bvudzijena told the newspaper.

Survivor: Very interesting that gold and fuel get as much attention as the people involved in this action.

Goldilox"Godfathers"#1327606/1/05; 12:49:19

While many have decried the association of the Kennedy administration with crime families in their dealings with Cuba, but on the History Channel today is a documentary called "Godfathers" detailing this cooperation going back to WWII, wherein Lucky Luciano was considered for a Congressional Medal of Honor for aiding the invasion of Sicily.

Mussolini had imprisoned major mafiosos, and the rest had fled to the US. When he was later deported from the US, Lucky moved back to Sicily to plan his "takeover" of the Havana hotels and Casinos. Not many remember that the Castro revolution took place the very night that Luciano, Lanski, and the major families met in Havana to divvy up their spoils.

One of the more revealing docs I've seen, and follows the research of Mae Brussels and others who have highlighted this cooperation over many administrations.

Humorously, commentaries by Cuomo, Rudy Giuliani, and various FBI PR reps decry the brutality of these cartels without ever commenting on the various levels of government cooperations displayed between their commentaries.

In this era of ENRON, WCI, and courts overturning corruption convictions, it's a worthwhile educational excursion.

TopazBonds/Gold etc.#1327616/1/05; 12:59:16

Whilst "perception" generally associates a Bond Portfolio with terms such as "buy-and-hold" and "riskless T's", the reality is somewhat different.
A long-held portfolio is, on a continual basis, being "re-arranged" as Bonds mature, are called, and miriad other circumstances arise.
Where we stand "currently" offers NO logical reason to roll-over Bond positions in preference to exploring OTHER shorter dated alternatives.

The upshot (short-term) should/is seeing Cash/Gold/Silver/Oil benefitting....the Paper variety!

The downside is that long-held inter-market relationships that have supported these paper trades, are being TRASHED!

mikalAfter conundrum, crisis#1327626/1/05; 13:05:48

What's worrying Greenspan?
By Richard Duncan 31 May 2005
Has the Fed lost control of interest rates, asks author of bestselling book, The Dollar Crisis

GoldiloxDonaldson steps down#1327636/1/05; 14:23:11

A few weeks after the resignation of the enforcement director of the SEC, Chairan Donaldson also steps out after only 2.5 years of service.

He has endured strong complaints from the admin about his siding with the democratic leadership on SEC issues.

In addition, a "communications error" caused the NYSE to close 4 minutes early today. They are reopening now to a get a "closing print" to end the day.

The securities markets are appearing more and more like "Keystone Kops!"

GoldiloxHUI and oil#1327646/1/05; 14:29:32

In a day of more dollar strength, perhaps residual reaction to the Eu vote results, the HUI proffered another 2.6% gain while oil gained over 5%.

Mining equities acting like stocks or portending the future of PM pricing?

Who says the commodities bull is over?

GoldiloxFisher calls the FED actions "the 8th inning"#1327656/1/05; 14:36:10

In a public statement today, Dallas Fed president Fisher suggested that the FED is currently in the "8th inning", and a June hike represents the ninth.

When using baseball as an analogy for the FED, one must also remember that there is always the potential for extra innings until the last out is registered.

Is the FED done? SM analysts are certainly hopeful, but even many of the CNBC shills seem to be skepical.

GoldiloxAnother day in the FIAT "hood"#1327666/1/05; 14:41:07

An interesting chart and commentary on the DX over at JSMineset.

Just why and how long will this DX rally last?

USAGOLD Daily Market ReportPage Update!#1327676/1/05; 15:24:42">
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Wednesday Market Excerpts

June 1 (from DowJones) -- Comex August gold sustained another barrage of fund sales Wednesday, closing down $1.20 at $417.70,

melda laureI've asked myself that for the last 4 years.#13276806/01/05; 16:47:01

'How much is the "permanent" deployment of reservists relieving unemployment pressures at home?'

Add in the other various Homeland Job Security positions too.

Sir Black Blade, any thoughts on July heating oil? This seems a bit out of season to say the least. Actually it almost sounds like sheer unalloyed hysterical fear.

"Today's rally has nothing to do with headlines and everything to do with the symmetry of the numbers," said Tom Kloza, chief oil analyst at the Oil Price Information Service. Historical data and trading patterns indicate that heating oil futures could head to $2.20 a gallon, he said.... The diesel market "is the oil apocalypse," Kloza said."

The disconnect between Ag and Au the last three days has been amusing to watch. The sale probably wont last long.

ArcticfoxFrom today's Midas#1327696/1/05; 17:23:45

So to recap Wacky World today:

*US interest rates collapsing, as the dollar goes straight up. Whatever happened to those who said the dollar was rallying because our interest rates were going to rise?

*The US stock market shooting straight up as the bonds and notes go straight up. Either the economy is that good, or that bad. Can't have it both ways. This is ludicrous.

*Silver going straight up, as gold goes straight down. Only because of Gold Cartel engineering. This tells me the bums have hit the wall with silver.

*Crude oil moving straight up as talk of inflation in the US going straight down. Denial reigns.

TopazG'lox, Sinclairs Chart.#1327706/1/05; 17:26:42

FYI and E.
The Invisible HandEuro ist kaput???#1327716/1/05; 18:24:16

A political storm has broken out in Germany over reports that the government may be distancing itself from the European single currency.

Antipodean BugThe nominal price of gold#1327726/1/05; 18:33:58

We tend to think that gold is purchased by US interests
as a hedge against a falling dollar.
But if you were a European based fund or investor seeing the
bottom falling out of the Euro, what do you do to hedge your
position? Answer - you have two choices:-
i) Buy USD - which you wouldn't do if you examine the fundamentals.
ii) Buy gold - the "other" currency.

So let's not forget that gold is a hedge against ALL paper notjust the USD. And the reason we are seeing relative strength in gold v the USD right now is probably because the Europeans have taken over buying it.

knotakareRe: Hello physicalman#1327736/1/05; 19:28:29

Thanks for responding to my post this morning. As I recall you said a couple years ago that insurance companies were buying up timber lands in the Southeast. Well during the past few years we are seeing investment funds buying up timberlands here in northern Michigan.

The 2 most recent were the divestiture of Mead Paper's Escanaba pulp & paper mill as well as their timberlands. This to an investment firm with the Orweilian name of "New Page".

And another transaction of probably over 400,000 acres sold to a private investment fund out of Ralieh NC called Heartland. Last year only 2 years after the sale, the State of Michigan and a couple NGO's bought up development rights (conservation easements) on much of the firms holdings to the tune of $50,000,000.

What I find interesting is that Wall Street types would make such long term investments in timberlands. But then when you see their involvement with Nature Conservancy, you begin to realize there is more going on here that is never fully explained.

I have my own theory (that is highly contriversial), but out of respect to our hosts I will just keep it to myself. Having worked in the Paper industry back in my younger days, I find all this most interesting.

Some of those timberlands that were sold to Heartland once belonged to American Can Corp. I believe they were big in Alabama at one time. The whole story of American Can's evolution in the 1980's into a finaciall services company is a fascinating story in itself. Those old Industrialists in Greenich were already plotting their next moves 25 years ago.

best regards from the north,


Dollar Bill.,.#1327746/1/05; 20:34:23

"I have my own theory (that is highly controversial)"
We have open forum on the weekends, consider posting it then.
In the coming new world order, if it continues to succeed, food will be the number one US export I am guessing. And timber, wood products.....
If I had money like that to invest for decades, one idea would be to provide the future living places for all those that will flee the cities and suburbs of today when the new world order dawn reveals itself in all its barren glory.

Sundeck@mikal Msg#132762 - What worries Greenspan#1327756/1/05; 20:46:40

Good one Sir mikal...Richard Duncan has my vote as one of the (few) really lucid commentators on matters relating to the US dollar, treasuries and interest rates. This essay supports my conviction...a clear and thought-provoking analysis of interest rates and the quandry facing the Fed and the US Treasury...not to mention the rest of the world.

A lot of confidence is placed upon the monetary authorities around the world to deliver stability and safety and growth and confidence...but I really doubt that anyone really understands what is going on or what is likely to unfold...essentially unpredictable.


GoldiloxFood Exports#1327766/1/05; 20:55:11

@ $ Bill,

You are correct that food is one uf the US' strongest exports, but as of last year, the US is actually a net importer of food.

If TSHTF, food will be a MAJOR concern world-wide.

The Mormons are rumored to have many tons of storable food cached in their Utah mountain hideaways for just such an occurance.

KnallgoldPOG#1327776/1/05; 23:30:55

""There's pretty key support for gold around $413-$415, and as long as we hold above there, a positive chart trend remains intact and so there'll be buyers. >>>But if we fall below there, the story obviously changes,"<<< said a precious metals analyst at a New York commission house."

Obviously,Gold has to fall further,and it will fall below 400.The mines are also pointing to summer doldrums.The bullish trend line has to be broken before a new upleg can start,and there must be more Goldbashing articles appearing than there are now.It has been like that before,and it will not change.

I'm talking $ terms as the POG has showed some strenght against sFr.,well'selling Gold finally takes its toll on the Swiss currency.

Can $-Gold collapse with euro Gold rising?Ah,Gold will rise against all currencies.It would be about time.Gold has been a bad investment the last years,it neither neutralised inflation costs.I'm up only on a few rarer coins (Australian Dragon'some Pandas,St.Gaudens) and on those I bought at the bottom in 1998-1999.The last 5 years or so Gold hovered around 15000 sFr. +/- 1000 per kilo,hardly making up the buy/sell spread.

I mean 8 years later is starting to be long term in my book.I'm not complaining,I'm just checking our theories.

mikalMon Cheri Chery?#1327786/1/05; 23:34:48 Steep Grade Ahead - Robyn Meredith - June 1, 2005
Meredith neatly fills in blanks answering
'Why the GM decline?', and VW as well.
While low cost cars like the Chery minicar and SUV are expected here in 2007, the majors too will tool up their
own low-budget entries. Most of them have already produced new small 'concept cars' with success. Bottom line realities guarantee it- the Chinese Chery, low savings rates, high gas prices, high consumer debt, sliding home prices, higher cost of living(inflation), and plans to import auto assemblies and parts from China. Major lifestyle changes could include '70's style energy conservation and more calls for nuclear, coal and alternative energy. Bush has already moved to open up wilderness exploration. Hard times on top of tough times calls for real, in-hand and tangibly hard assets!

mikalRiding out blackouts #1327796/1/05; 23:47:35

Hot Summer Could Bring Power Outages, Price Spikes - John Schoen - June 1, 2005
'Stretched electric grid leaves some regions vulnerable'

GoldendomeIs it a business cycle or a credit cycle?#1327806/2/05; 00:21:33

In it's June market analysis, Contrary Investor, with their usual friendly conversational manner, presents the evidence including clearly detailed graphs; then allows us to draw our own conclusions. Typically, good information and worth a read.
TopazLets list a few disequilibria.#1327816/2/05; 02:28:36

SandP owe Bonds 350 points +or-.
Oil owes Bonds $15ish.
Gold owes the alt-currencies $25 or thereabouts... it any wonder rumors abound re: HedgeFund problems.

The rationale holds that "todays" Market moves can be neutered via "futures" as in "Tail-Wags-Dog".
When Dog decides to wag Tail, Tail moves too briskly for Fleas to hold on.

In what could be seen as an orchestrated series of events, the Euro has returned to a competitive level and concurrently Buck has burnt the Ladder rungs away as she rises. No way theres a slow way down for Buck now imo!

SundeckDollar high on a ladder with burnt rungs?#1327826/2/05; 05:40:25

One might suspect that most of the dollar "strength", seen through the USDX index of five major currencies (Euro, Yen, Swiss franc, Canadian dollar and Swedish krona), during the last six months, has been mostly due to a declining Euro. Especially since the Euro makes up more than half the index and especially with the polls-predicted, and the actual, French and Dutch savaging of the European constitution.

However, the dollar has strengthened against ALL the currencies that make up the index:

10% against the Swedish krona
4% against the Canadian dollar
8% against the Swiss franc
5% against the yen and
8% against the euro

In fact, the decline of the euro versus the dollar hasn't even been all that prominent...comparable to the decline in the Swiss franc and less than that in the Swedish krona. Dollar strengthening against other currencies (eg. 6% against the British pound, and 8% against gold) is also occurring, so it is not just the euro's weak knees that are making the dollar look like the next big thing.

Over the same period the $US-price of base metals has INCREASED by about 7% across the board. This means that the dollar is weakening against commodities (at least the metals...and also against oil) at the same time as it is strengthening against the other currencies.

What is going on?

Is it just that the American economy looks more lively than those across the Atlantic? Is it that everyone has to buy oil and metals and other raw necesities using dollar-denominated contracts? Is there a rush of foreign buyers into US real estate? Is it that MZM (money zero maturity) has stalled so that people are bidding for more dollars (to buy oil etc) in a static pool? Is it just that a whole lot of speculators are riding the momentum upwards...some perhaps even believing that the dollar has "bottomed" and is on the way up in the long term?

What is it?

I suspect, Sir Topaz that your ladder metaphor may be near to the money..."burnt rungs" and all.


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GoldiloxAU Action +$5#1327856/2/05; 09:19:43

Now, that's more like it!
USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.Mid-week reminder... don't miss the USAGOLD Market Update#1327866/2/05; 09:27:42

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TownCrierCongrats to all to who got a piece of this multi-thousand coin discount allotment of German gold marks#1327876/2/05; 10:01:42

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GoldiloxRon Paul#1327886/2/05; 10:18:42

@ TC,

Isn't it amazing that Ron Paul is more vocally pro-metal than the reps from Nevada and Idaho?

Perhaps they would beg to differ, but a little more visibility is sure in order.

TownCrierGoldilox, on representation#1327896/2/05; 11:42:20

A person can stand for something irrespective of his geography or office, and I imagine Representative Ron Paul would hold to his philosophy no matter where he was or what he was doing professionally. Insofar as you make comparison with the vocality of representation in metal-rich Idaho and Nevada, I suppose we shouldn't forget the role of the various voters in deciding who their mouthpiece is. It probably isn't for lack other folks like-minded as Paul to run for office elsewhere, but rather a body of Texas voters find an appeal in his philosophy on the whole, whereas voters elsewhere apparently have another set of priorities that carry the day.

Just rambling along on a half-thought.


Liberty HeadRe: Ron Paul#1327906/2/05; 11:47:54

Ron Paul behaves with more integrity than the rest of Congress combined. He values the Constitution more than the rest of Congress combined.

Ron Paul represents the 14th district of Texas, an oil producing district.

Ron Paul is heavily invested in gold.

My point is, gold and integrity correlate with Ron Paul.

Now, if I could just explain a person with integrity surviving in Congress? What an enigma that is!
Congress must be content to ignore the guy because they don't feel threatened by a minority of one.

It is comforting to know, if the USA abandons it excursion into fascist empire building and returns to it's senses, we have some true leaders standing by.

Best Wishes

968ECB : PRESS RELEASE#1327916/2/05; 12:14:16

2 June 2005 - Monetary policy decisions

At today's meeting the Governing Council of the ECB decided that the minimum bid rate on the main refinancing operations and the interest rates on the marginal lending facility and the deposit facility will remain unchanged at 2.00%, 3.00% and 1.00% respectively.

968David Dodge: Reflections on the international economic and monetary order#1327926/2/05; 12:53:44

Remarks by Mr David Dodge, Governor of the Bank of Canada, at the Conférence de Montréal, Montreal, 30 May 2005.

"Today, I want to talk about an issue that is central to the prospects for the world economy - the management of large, global economic imbalances that have become the subject of increasing concern among market participants and policy-makers around the world. I am referring, of course, to the persistent and growing current account deficit in the United States that is mirrored by large current account surpluses elsewhere, especially in Asia. Up to now, world capital markets have been managing these imbalances in a reasonably smooth way. In the short term, it is reasonable to expect that they will continue to do so. But over the medium term, imbalances of this magnitude are not sustainable. At some point, they will have to be resolved. Why? For one thing, a country's external indebtedness cannot keep growing indefinitely as a share of its GDP. Eventually, investors will begin to balk at increasing their exposure to that country, even if it is a reserve-currency country, such as the United States. For another thing, the buildup of foreign exchange reserves by Asian countries will, eventually, feed into domestic monetary expansion and lead to higher inflation. These imbalances will ultimately be resolved, either in an orderly, or in an abrupt, disorderly way. The question is, are current economic policies and today's international monetary order likely to facilitate an orderly resolution of the imbalances? If not, what changes are needed to reduce the risk of an abrupt, disorderly adjustment?"

"In essence, these imbalances reflect the international financial flows associated with saving-investment mismatches. Specifically, over the past decade or so, we have seen many countries outside the United States increase their saving by a very large amount, while at the same time, the United States has reduced its saving and has become increasingly reliant on foreign borrowing."

"But there are reasons to worry about imbalances in a global context. To begin with, market-based means of resolving international imbalances are somewhat less effective and potentially more disruptive. This is because there is less labour mobility across international borders, and so larger movements in relative wages and prices are needed in order for them to act as an equilibrating mechanism. Further, certain national and international policies, as well as interventions in the foreign exchange market, have been inhibiting the necessary relative wage and price movements. Indeed, some of these policies are making the situation worse. And so the concern is that the longer these imbalances remain unresolved, the greater the chances that the ultimate resolution will be disorderly. Equally troubling, there is a greater chance of protectionist measures that can seriously damage the global economy."

"It is clear that, to date, there has not been enough progress on structural reforms. This lack of progress is somewhat frustrating, given that there is a reasonable consensus on what should be done domestically in all countries."

"Movements in real exchange rates can come from changes in nominal exchange rates, changes in relative wages and prices, or a combination of the two. But when the nominal exchange rate is fixed, the only way to bring about adjustments in the real exchange rate is through large movements in relative wages and prices. Theoretically, this is feasible - but only if wages and prices are highly flexible both upwards and downwards. But this high degree of flexibility is practically non-existent. And so, when exchange rates are fixed, global economic adjustment can still take place, but it comes at a high cost - through shrinking output and rising unemployment in countries with current account deficits and through very high inflation in countries with current account surpluses. While this adjustment is costly, it does work, provided countries that are fixing their currencies through foreign exchange intervention are not offsetting the monetary consequences of this by "sterilizing" the intervention. This is an important point. When intervention is sterilized, this temporarily prevents the movements in wages and prices needed to bring about the necessary economic adjustment. In these cases, adjustment is postponed - in both surplus and deficit countries. But the adjustment and its costs are only delayed, they are not avoided. Indeed, the costs typically end up being larger than they would otherwise be, precisely because they have been delayed. The only way to truly minimize the costs of adjustment is to allow nominal exchange rates to move around."

"Other economies, particularly in Asia, have opted for a fixed exchange rate regime. However, some of these countries, by sterilizing their foreign exchange intervention, have rejected the adjustment mechanisms that should go along with such a regime. By sterilizing, not only are they accumulating even larger foreign exchange reserves, more importantly, they are undermining the efficiency of their own domestic economies and interfering with the resolution of imbalances."

"So there are impediments in Europe, the United States, and Asia that are all getting in the way of a timely and orderly resolution. Because of this, global imbalances are growing, and this is increasing the risk of a disorderly correction at some point down the road."

"Just as the WTO provides critical support for trade, there is also a need for an effective organization to support the international monetary system. Under Bretton Woods, this role was given to the International Monetary Fund (IMF). But world financial conditions have evolved dramatically, while in many respects, the IMF remains the same institution that was created in 1944 for an era of fixed exchange rates."

"The IMF must evolve to take account of today's realities.....First, we must recognize that the Fund has little direct ability to affect the policies of non-borrowing members. Consequently, its ability to influence discussions of important global issues, such as external imbalances, hinges on the quality of its economic and financial surveillance, its advice, and its ability to communicate its message."

"in a world of freely flowing private capital, we must rely on market-based mechanisms to resolve financial crises, if and when they occur. While the Fund has a continuing role to play in providing liquidity assistance to members in financial distress, there are limits to such assistance - the IMF does not, cannot, and should not have endless reserves."

"A larger stake by Asian members in the IMF also implies greater responsibility on their part for the success of the Fund as guardian of the international monetary and financial systems. Indeed, by taking greater responsibility, Asian nations would affirm their commitment to the Fund's important objectives. Moreover, by being able to draw more on the strengths of the Asian economies, the IMF would be in a better position to do its job properly."
Any thoughts Townie ?

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June 2 (from Reuters) -- Gold futures in New York settled at a three-week high Thursday on fund and trade buying sparked by the market's recent resilience on price dips as well a firmer euro during the session, brokers and analysts said.

COMEX August gold futures surged 1.7 percent, or $7.10, to end at $424.80, carving out its highest close since May 12. The session range ran from $417.20 to $425.80.

Interestingly, the metals seemed to de-link from the foreign exchange to a degree following recent bets by some speculators that markets like gold and copper would fall steeply in line with this week's drop in the euro.

A weaker dollar usually makes dollar-priced commodities like metals cheaper for non-U.S. investors.

"Gold has simply held up very well and it is starting to firm against all the currencies," said a broker at a futures commission merchant.

----(see url for full news, 24-hr headlines)----

TopazComex Delivery.#1327946/2/05; 14:34:11

A respectable but disappointing tally to date and another 10K month looks now only a slim chance :-(

Undaunted, PoG must surely be being considered "better than Paper" as she leaves the alt's in her dust ...the split PoG/alts is $30odd, on a steady 2mth upswing.

Those who attempt to "manage" these things are truly eggshell walking as what I suspect to be a managed PoG simply heat-cinqing the Dollar rise, may well cause a market driven Gold rally.

TownCrier968, on Dodge#1327956/2/05; 15:05:36

I would applaud David Dodge for his straightforward presentation of the problems at hand and the potential escalation of the risks toward disruptive resolution (disorderly adjustment) of the non-uniformity among the various nations in their interpretation and implementation of the "rules of the game" for the international monetary system, including techniques of internal monetary policy and reserve management.

Essentially, if an evolution in architecture is not actively pursued with foresight to attenuate and resolve the growing imbalances, then it is likely that "disorderly adjustments" will eventually force our hand to fact the facts anyway. The classic trade-off of a painful stitch now versus a much more painful nine stitches later.

Where I would most significantly depart from Dodge is to the extent that he herein promotes the IMF to be the proactive agent for promulgating new architecture.

In my view, the IMF has lost much, if not all, relevance as a leading international monetary "trail guide" and/or system custodian. The only reasonable expectation for the IMF is that significant developments come from Another (outside) quarter, and then the IMF will scramble after-the-fact to adapt to the changes. Such was the case when the world expanded beyond the gold straps of the Bretton Woods design and when Nixon ceased convertibility, and such will be the case again in this latest step.

That is to say, the ECB and BIS seem already to have pioneered the new trail (i.e., mark-to-market "free gold" reserves) to help get us through and beyond the current muddle of the existing mish-mashed international monetary infrastructure. As more nations begin to follow these best management practices, coming to recognize the superior suitability of the architecture, only then will the IMF fully see the writing on the wall and respond by coming up to speed -- simply to preserve its own institutional bacon.

In other words, I expect the changes to evolve into place somewhat organically as a natural response to necessity. The IMF structural endorsements will only arrive after-the-fact, with little more contribution to it all than to dot i's and cross t's.


TownCrierGold beginning to show signs of life after 18-month downturn in the sector#1327966/2/05; 15:12:37

VANCOUVER (CP) - Gold may be regaining some of its glitter.

..."All of a sudden, in very short order, the tide seems to have turned and there is a lot of interest in the gold sector," Paul Taylor, chief investment officer, BMO Harris Private Banking said in an interview.

Taylor pointed to two principle ways of taking advantage of a rising price for gold - investing in the commodity itself and buying shares of operating gold companies.

"Of late, one of the big tradeoffs is, with the rising cost of energy and foreign exchange and other things, a lot of the gold companies have struggled in terms of managing their operating costs and being able to deliver bottom-line profitability," he said.

"Gold and gold stocks are relatively cheap in early summer and then they become more expensive into the fall," said Taylor, who explained that in 14 of the past 16 years, bullion and gold shares have risen by an average nine per cent and 24 per cent respectively from early summer to early fall.

...He also pointed to a historical relationship between the price of oil and gold with bullion averaging 15.7 times the price of oil over the past two decades.

"If you assume oil settles in at $50 US a barrel and take 10 times that you'd expect gold to trade at $500 US per ounce," Taylor said.

Nick Barisheff, president of Bullion Management Services Inc., said holding gold is a useful way to diversify a portfolio against a downturn in stocks, bonds, real estate and financial assets.

"If your portfolio is basically only long in one direction and the market is going the other direction you've got a big mess on your hands," he said.

"What's happened over the years is stocks and bonds used to be somewhat negatively correlated, but lately they've become positively correlated, so the traditional view of holding stocks, bonds and cash and you're fully diversified" no longer holds.

Barisheff equated holding gold bullion in a portfolio to buying house insurance for fire.

"You need fire insurance and I think you need portfolio insurance. You can't simply go long on stocks and bonds and presume that there will be a neverending bull market."

------(from url)-----

We've talked about this here for a long time, and now it's nice to see this perspective getting airtime in the mainstream press.


R PowellYield curve#1327976/2/05; 15:20:51

A quick check on the "Quotes" at the top right of the page shows that.....
5 yr note yield = 3.642....+.007
10 yr note yield = 3.890....-.017
30 yr note yield = 4.229....-.o34

The poor curve is being flattened like a piece of hot metal on the anvil under the blacksmith's hammer.
Nice day for both gold and the other white metal!

GoldiloxOff-shore bond purchases#1327986/2/05; 15:43:09


Yep, the revised second chart clearly shows that the two biggest holders of U.S. Treasury debt, Japan and China, ARE NOT buying additional bonds. Also, the debt purchasers from the United Kingdom appear to have not bought as many bonds as previously thought. In other words, the formerly "big" treasury bond buyers are either not buying anymore U.S. Debt, and/or the amount they purchased has been revised "downward" from previous estimates.

There is one exception, however. It appears that offshore banks in the Caribbean are buying ever increasing amounts of this debt, and in fact, the numbers have been revised significantly upward over the last year or so.

My question is this: Who are the parties in the Caribbean who are taking up a large part of the purchasing slack? Are they the Hedge Funds, or maybe even the Government itself? What is your take on this data shown above? Could we be seeing the beginning of the end of the Asian financing of American Debt, and the start of a credit crunch that is sure to follow?


The charts are posted for comparison at George's URL.

I have all too often added my politically charged supposition of where these monies come from and just who controls them, so I will only elaborate to add three inocuous letters - ESF.

When the FED says they just don't understand why the bond rates falling, they are lying like flea-bitten dogs, as their ESF tax-protected home-boyz scramble to take up the Asian slack.

A better question might be "why do they want to flatten the yield curve so drastically?" Are they so resigned to dollar destruction that they have capitulated and just want to ride the roller-coaster and play George Soros on the way down?

RemarxIMF Gold Sales to Pay of Third World Debt#1327996/2/05; 16:08:25

The article in the link above, "Sell the Gold, Free the Poor", mentions "industry opposition" as a stumbling block to debt elimination.

I am curious what insights folks here may have about the potential of IMF gold sales for lowering the POG. I am a supporter of abolishing debt for under developed countries, but it is not clear to me why the IMF would need to sell gold, or by what authority it would do so. Also, where and how does the IMF get its gold?

GoldiloxDebt "cancellation" scam#1328006/2/05; 16:36:06

@ Remarx,

As best as I can ascertain, instead of "cancelling" the debts outright and having the creditor eat his loss, as is done in any normal bankruptcy, the bansters are gwine to get paid by the sale of CB Treasury gold.

What that means is that one more time the powerful banksters are asking for remuneration from the governments for their losses, essentially asking the tax-payers to bail them out so they don't suffer any losses.

And what's worse, they expect our support for their terrible plight. Not only will they get paid from the proceeds of taxpayers' treasury gold, but they will raise the interest rates on the very people who bail them out, on the grounds that their risk level has obviously increased.

The latest "bankruptcy bill" supports their predatory lending parctices and allows them to charge as much as 30% interest on any non-banker who comes on hard times.

As usual, we eat the fruits of their greedy practices of lending too much to third-world dictators to get those "juicy" returns and then bankrupting them with FOREX attacks on their currency.

I ask you this one question. If you bought Argentine bonds and got wiped out by assuming too much risk for the potential of huge profits, who would be expected to sell their gold to bail your butt out?

GoldiloxA Conspiracy of Fools - McCarthy commentary#1328016/2/05; 16:43:43


A detailed account, superbly researched and documented, of the Enron debacle under the title "A Conspiracy of Fools" by Kurt Eichenwald, recently read, is the inspiration for the question above. There is, at least, a workable hypothesis that the Enron rise and collapse is a possible microcosm of the global bubble ongoing, stoked by massive credit emanation currently believed to be the New Wave of Economic Growth. In it's time, Enron was believed to be the new model of corporate growth, expanding exponentially more rapidly than prosaic forebears, incorporating marketing and financial genius, transforming industries and economies and enriching vast constituencies. It was, in fact, a gigantic scam and sham able to deceive with aplomb virtually all areas of expertise in understanding and analyzing risk and reward. A combination of fraud, greed, obliviousness, unbridled ego, unquestioned belief in growth, and fascinated obsession with financial innovation catalogues the "E" debacle. Virtually all these elements are in plentiful supply in global financial markets and the players therein as the world "reflates" with a vengeance in every nook and cranny having a medium of exchange and the means to exchange it.

There is no question of the criminality of many of the players in the Houston company's demise, however, there is also clear proof that the complexities of modern finance are beyond the comprehension and understanding of many extremely intelligent and supposedly well informed "leaders" of the mammoth organizations now proliferating at excessively rapid growth rates across the global economy. In the abbreviated mini-downturn of 2000-2002, abruptly terminated by plummeting Fed rate cuts and massive liquidity injections (First in the $ Trillions from the GSE's and latterly in the $ Trillions from the Primary dealer, hedge fund and bank lending arenas), there were quite a few Enron-like disasters such as the two currently in the trial headlines, Worldcom and Tyco. Again, there is criminality aplenty but also plentiful further evidence of inability of supposedly astute "leaders" and observers to unravel what seemingly are relatively complex but not insuperably difficult frauds and misuses. More recently, the burgeoning AIG scandal, the shocking GM cash flow reversal and the ongoing flow of announcements from the Citi's and BofA's confirm the following thesis:



ENRON as a proxy for the global finance folly. Interesting read.

GoldiloxScalar Economics?#1328026/2/05; 16:57:20

Last night I read an interview with Tom Beardon, one of the physicists promoting a second look at Newtonian and Einsteinian propositions.

To whit, he suggests that one of the great limitations of our current physics models is that they use "cancellation vectors" to describe "stability". I.E., two elephants or two fleas pushing head to head against each other "cancel out" the forces and the net result is "no work done". It's not difficult to see the difference between these two examples, especially from the perspective of the point directly between the forces.

Just for giggles, let's apply this hypothesis to the current market conundra. If one of the elephants loses his footing, what happens to the market traders that exist between the two behemoths? Is it the same result as when the elephants are replaced by the two fleas?

Perhaps economic theorists are also ignoring the "internal forces" and only concerning themselves with the "external net result".

Very possibly a big mistake.

Federal_ReservesBottom?#1328036/2/05; 17:45:35$GOLD

Today's gold rally took a little heat off. Gold is now over $420 and reversing out of a very negative pattern. Lets she if pullbacks start getting bought intraday now.
This may just be the bottom. The last two rallies came off the same pattern where the blue uptrend line was violated, then gold took off!

Still not out of hot water, but at least the head is above the water line. I suppose we could touch the FEB/Lows as a final line in the sand.

As long as we have reckless policy makers who talk about baseball and interest rates (FISHER), who use specious arguments to explain the conundrum (aka credit bubble), and ignore sound policies based on facts, gold looks good.

MKGandalf#1328046/2/05; 18:58:03

Good call. Yes, we noticed.
PRITCHORICHARD RUSSELL --RE GOLD #1328056/2/05; 19:45:13

June 2, 2005 --
Richards Remarks - -(Daily Commentry)

So has the euro hit its low? There's a good chance that it has. If so, then the euro is probably ready to correct upwards against the dollar. The rise in gold and gold shares may be telling us that. I'm writing this on Thursday morning, so I don't know where gold will close today, but this morning as I write gold is up 5.20. We'll see if "they" can knock it down by the close.

What does the euro look like on the charts? In a word -- oversold. Below we see a daily chart of the euro going back to the first of the year. Note the extreme low of MACD; it "should" be ready to turn up soon, if not today. RSI has plunged below 30 (oversold) and has now turned higher. That huge gap in the euro should soon be filled. Gold has tended to move with the euro, and gold is higher today. Russell guess -- the euro is ready to rally.

Then Later in commentry after up to date figures given:

"Gold now leading the gold stocks, but the action is very erratic, and as sure as night follows day, gold will be down in the aftermarket. I wonder why?"
When someone as eminent as RR states there is blatent manipulation(which he often repeats)in the POG/POS, THERE is NO EXCUSE for the USA Media to act like the ostrich.

CometoseI smell something burning ....................#1328066/2/05; 20:11:34

I have two sisters ; one of them is an attorney and the other is an MBA ......and kind of a business whiz..
I mean she can run a calculator on income statement numbers and balance sheets and get to the bottom line ...
Let me see ...(not to take anything away from my senior sister) I graduated in 73...and the way I remember it; my junior sister got married that month. She's only 1 year older than I am and she was already almost finished with college and did an MBA in a year after that.......
The reason I bring up both of them is because they are related to me and to this story in another way......
Several years ago / like 4/ I had a conversation with my senior sister about metals , specifically gold . Her response was ............( to investing in the GOLD BUllion , coins etc realm ) " So , you think that there might be something wrong with the banks ????" ( This is a woman that I know who has an established track record of investing in unvervalued cos like Warren Buffet and made a bundle doing it ; that's all she's done since retiring early from the legal profession 20 years ago at least) IN the last four years getting stocks to go up and make you money has been increasingly difficult because there isn't any value according to Warren Buffet....While this valueless environment has been continuing and we've been moving sideways in the market ( kind of ) there has been a lot of other Strange Financial things going on that I am sure Sister number one is noticing since her time is not being taken up running down undervalued companies on WALL ST

Let's call sister number one A...........
She's no dummy ....but 4 years ago .......her only use for gold had to do with " BANKS HAVING PROBLEMS"

Now let's continue with Sister number two . We will call her K .

(Hope I haven't told this story before here, but it bears repeating at this time and during the context we are living in , known and unknown).

A little background on recent happenings with Sister 2 : K .....

I was on the internet and saw her name mentioned in a post with a Gold Community Dignitary's name . It was a guess but her name was mentioned with the name of another that I had recently been made familiar with . I later confirmed that was her by emailing her. We hadn't talked about any of the stuff in the economy or in the gold market etc for over 2 years that I remember....and now I run into her in the middle of this fray when GOLD is Peaking back in November......and we met for Thanksgiving and she starts showing me all this stuff she is reading much of which are sites here on the internet that I frequently read and know as well......So, at that time something significant happened in our only conversation prior to Thanksgiving and subsequent to my running into her in text on the Internet......In that one communication , she told me that she thought AFLEASE was a SCREAMING BUY at 180 Zars (at the time) . Since that time , it went up 140-150 %......
I love my sister .....but I didn't buy it because it's SA and at that time there was some talk about GOV"T nationalizing objectives and interference in the mining industry .

So , months pass , and we have the occasion to get together in May over Mother's Day and a birthday party .
I left two days later on the 11th. On May 12 , I had a layover in Denver and she called me and asked me who I purchased my Gold through .....and we had a brief discussion about things financial ....She talked about a book she's working on about price management of GOLD....(MANIPULATION) and then she told me that she was embarking on her first purchase of METAL GOLD ....and in that initial Gold action on her part we talked was in the context of .....HEDGE FUNDS and PROBLEMS THERE ....that GOLD FOR HER had become relevant to the point that owning it physically was essential.........

That conversation happened less than a month ago ......and based on what has happened in my life personally since then, it seems like a year......and In this short period of time a YEARS WORTH OF CRAP may have transpired and we not know about it yet.........

In the last week ,,,, since memorial day,,and the French / Dutch Voting down ....manifestations of something very different are coming to the surface.......

THIS ISN'T HALLOWEEN....../ OCTOBER.........but for JUNE there seems to be something very EERIE in the AIR........

TO Recap .......

4 years ago Sister A says the only reason to own gold is if the banks have problems.........
Less than a month ago Sister K ( who I spotted on the Internet in the company of Gold BUG dignitaries 6 months ago ) calls and says she's buying physical gold (for the first time ) in the context of : there are big hedge fund problems out there.

I think both of my sisters are correct ...........
and we're going to get to see this battle unfold from ringside seats.......

I think that this weeks action in Silver may be confirming the markets worst unspoken fears.....about paper and validating history's long known and accepted currency ...:GOLD / SILVER

GoldiloxRussell's comment#1328076/2/05; 20:21:44


""Gold now leading the gold stocks, but the action is very erratic, and as sure as night follows day, gold will be down in the aftermarket. I wonder why?"

This is a very astute observation, as the stocks have definitely been leading the metals for a number of days, even moving contrarily in the case of gold.

He may be suggesting that the "plow has caught up with the horse" - at least temporarily?

This last week in the metals and mining equities has been an adventure, indeed.

GoldiloxRon Paul#1328086/2/05; 20:32:48

@ TC,

My point was more to other half of the statement - that one would think that Nevada and Idaho, two states whose largest industries include mining would have stronger pro-metal representation.

I disagree with the poster who said Dr. Paul was a minority of one in Congress. The numbers are still quite small, but thankfully >1.


Hi there & thanks for the input --however I'm positive he was remarking on the ongoing & daily manipulation which has been & continues after the market closes.

I have subscribed for the past 2 yrs & read his remarks daily.He HAS noted that it may soon be time for the shares to lead GOLD again & thet seems to have occured.

He is usually quite circumspect & careful BUT often his frustration breaks out & he says what he thinks -bluntly.
This is his greatest quality - and his readers hear it as he sees it. He served his Country during WW2 & is a great Patriot. He sees what is going on ,hates it and shares his thoughts. I'm signing up for another year today.

otish mountainTownie, missed out (re: 132787)#13281006/02/05; 23:18:23

on the German marks, but the Argentinos didn't slip away from my grasp.
GoldiloxSinclair on accumulation trends#13281106/02/05; 23:26:42

@ Pritcho


The most important development in the gold arena at present is the quiet bullish action of gold shares since the middle of May-something that has not been witnessed in many moons. For the most part, this action has occurred as the price of gold declined.

What we are seeing here is accumulation during price weakness as opposed to selling into weakness which, as we all know, is a common practice with the general public. It defines itself as a professional accumulation which clearly has nothing to do with the gold community or the flavor of the month community gold bears and/or dollar bulls.

What you are witnessing is the entrance of establishment and hedge fund interests into the gold shares in advance of a major move in the shares and in the price of gold itself.

The establishment knows that the EU is not about to implode economically. Germany is not cranking up its printing presses to exchange new Deutsch Marks for Euros. There is not a mass movement to burn EU passports and obtain new national passports. The customs services are not planning to return to all the national borders to regulate travel by EU members. You have to hand it to the media as they pump out disinformation on the situation in Euroland.


It looks like JS is seeing some of the same action that Russell commented on. They often agree.

TopazLong Bond.#13281206/03/05; 01:11:19

One of the reliable (as reliable goes with this stuff)reversal "flags" on the Bond Yield is the habit it has of "gapping-down" just prior to a reversal.

I have been optimistic on Bonds up to now, but the gaps it's put in this week would suggest a reversal is nigh!

Townie: Mr Taylor should encourage his readership to BUY the Metal ...INVEST in the Shares.

KnallgoldMaroni wants the lira back!#13281306/03/05; 01:57:34

"09:25 - DEVISEN: Euro bricht ein - Minister schürt Zweifel an Währungsunion
FRANKFURT (AWP/dpa-AFX) - Der Kurs des Euro ist am Freitagmorgen um über einen halben US-Cent eingebrochen nachdem Medien berichteten, ein italienischer Minister habe einen Austritt Italiens aus der Währungsunion ins Spiel gebracht. Zuvor hatte sich die Gemeinschaftswährung mit Kursen über der Marke von 1,23 US-Dollar erholt. Der Euro kostete am Morgen 1,2259 Dollar. Der Dollar war damit 0,8153 Euro wert. Die Europäische Zentralbank (EZB) hatte den Referenzkurs am Donnerstag auf 1,2263 (Mittwoch: 1,2228)

Dollar festgesetzt.

Italiens Minister für Beschäftigung und Soziales, Roberto Maroni, erwägt in einem Interview mit der italienischen Zeitung "La Repubblica" die temporäre Wiedereinführung der Lira. Im Hinblick auf die Abschwächung der Konjunktur und den Rückgang der Wettbewerbsfähigkeit Italiens hielte er einen befristeten Umlauf von Euro und Lira für besser. "

Italy's Minister for employment and social issues,Roberto Maroni thinks about a going back to the lira temporarly,for better growth and competitivity.

Trichet officially denied such rumours yesterday which also arose in Germany.To my knowledge there is no opting out possible in the euro.

KnallgoldPrevious post#13281406/03/05; 03:33:02

Please be aware that anything out of the Berlusconi Gov. has to be taken with a grain of salt!
GoldiloxUAE gold sales gains 15% in Q1#1328156/3/05; 07:31:04


MENAFN) UAE's gold sales increased 15 percent from $435 million in the first quarter of last year to $490 million in the first quarter of 2005, Khaleej Times reported.

According to figures released by the World Gold Council (WGC), the UAE gold consumption increased by 10 percent from 26.9 tonnes in the first quarter of 2004 to 29.8 tonnes in during the same period of this year, while the retail investment (bullion coins and bars) consumption increased by 10 per cent from two tonnes in 2004 to 2.2 tonnes this year.

The WGC's regional office in Dubai said a number of factors explain the strength of demand seen in the first quarter of 2005 including increased and successful jewellery promotions and introduction of new investment products in the market.

With consumers now accustomed to gold prices over $400/oz, and a growing consensus that the price of gold could rise further, the small retreat in the gold price from the peaks seen during the last quarter of 2004 was seen as a strong buying opportunity.

GoldiloxJobs Creation Number Drops Significantly#1328166/3/05; 07:52:17


As the extremely alert TM wrote: "Please note that the Birth Death model shows an increase in 207 thousand, so considering the report of plus 75 thousand, there was a significant net loss." Yeah, we noted.

The other thing we note is that the broader measures of labor under utilization, the so-called U-6 report, shows that the broader measure of unemployment declined from 9% last month to 8.1% this month. So that's good news, isn't it? No, not even. The reason is that when people fall off of their benefits they stop counting in various ways for the U-6 table.

All of which makes it a murky stew, unless you're a retired UAL person or any other recently screwed over class of present and former workers. While the Bush administration fiddles, the American worker continues to get burned bcy a combination of economic dishonestly and blind faith in "open markets" without honest money, a combination that allows corporations to play the spread between labor rates at the expense of workers everywhere.


The President's Economic Advisor was already on CNBC delivering the admin apology for this depressing number. The charts are posted at the URL.

USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds -- diversify and avoid the danger!#1328176/3/05; 09:43:43

TownCrierPrice of gold -- charts#1328186/3/05; 10:46:33

With the undercurrent rumors of EMU members such as Germany or Italy bowing out of the single currency (Trichet calls this talk "absurd") gold has been given some freedom to spread its wings, showing itself to be a world-class flyer as seen through a euro lens (see bottom two charts at given URL).

If gold is allowed to breach the long-standing EUR 350 ceiling, the technical traders will probably pile in to give gold a whole new shine suitable for larger contemplation of the next phase of international reserve reconfiguration.


Great Albino Bat"Rumors" about Germany and Italy possibly leaving the EMU...#1328196/3/05; 11:20:12

I think these rumors should be judged in the light of a silent war going on betwen the $ dollar and the euro systems.

This is psy-war going on, in my view. FWIW.


Clink!A Conspiracy of Fools#1328206/3/05; 11:20:40

I had listened to two or three "Enron" books before this one and, while they were interesting, they were rather frustrating. Essentially they were written by ex-employees, who only knew in detail their own relatively small patches, to which they added their own take of the company grapevine. Eichenwald's book is a class apart. Not only does it have a much broader perspective, but it also runs in concurrent time, so you can get a feeling for exactly what stage of each of the deals was going on at a given moment. In other words, you can see the progression. Thanks very much to whoever originally mentioned it 2-3 weeks ago (G'lox ?).

I think the most interesting aspect was that while there were a lot of conventional-view people who were appalled at what they saw going on around them, they were usually the ones who really knew what they were doing. The others - the Fastows - were pretty ignorant about what they were doing, but had the force to push through their agenda, and because these people seemed to be the ones who succeeded, they tended to get promoted above those that knew what they were doing. An archetypical example of rising to attain your level of incompetence !!


GoldiloxConspiracy of Fools#1328216/3/05; 12:05:40


Your quote

"and because these people seemed to be the ones who succeeded, they tended to get promoted above those that knew what they were doing."

reminds one that the premier quality for "promotion" is the loyalty factor - conforming to known and unknown larger agendae. Snow is a very obvious example, as his best quality seems to be an ability to express complete ignorance of the obvious.

I have no doubt that VERY few knew the big picture ENRON agenda - especially any specific goals for the absconded trading profits and "cash flow".

Just like the 9/11 airline puts, the information is massaged to make it look benign, when deeper investigation might suggest some very sinister possiblities.

I personally believe that gold sales (especially from public treasuries to unknown entities) are every bit as suspicious as the 9/11 puts. No matter what the "PC" explanation, the bottom line is public gold transferred to potentially "private" hands - replacing it with FIAT of tenuous "value".

TownCrierOil not impressed by supply or dollar's recent exchange rate performance, breaks $55/barrel#1328226/3/05; 15:21:31

NEW YORK, June 3 (Reuters) - Oil prices soared over $55 a barrel on Friday, tracking an "unseasonal" rally in heating oil...

The heating oil futures price, the benchmark for distillate fuels, is running at a premium of about 4 cents a gallon to gasoline -- a rarity in the late spring, when the energy markets tend to focus on the U.S. summer driving season.

The gains in the oil market reversed a sell-off Thursday that was triggered by an unexpected 1.4-million-barrel build in U.S. crude stocks back to near six-year highs.

Overall stockpiles in consumer nations have been boosted by high output from the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries to the highest levels for 25 years.

^----(from url)-----^

We are in a paradigm shift. Do you see?


TopazBond/Oil/Dollar.#1328236/3/05; 15:36:42

We certainly ARE seeing a "shift" of sorts ...paradigm?, we'll see!
Frankly, the Tug-o-War (Bond/Oil) looks to be headed in Oils direction and the clincher which MUST occur next week (IF the status-quo is maintained) will be Dollar direction.
Given the dual (counter-trend) Bond/Dollar strength of late, we may be looking at a return to ...or confirmation of deteriorating "future" expectations which will see Buck ratchet HIGHER.

Gold, SHOULD confirm and run up WITH the Buck ...imo.

TopazOil price?#1328246/3/05; 16:50:07

Last Friday we were presented with two "week-end" juxtapositional market moving events ...(a) Eurozone votes and (b) His Majesty King Fahd.
Well, all the attention has been given to the Euro vote and consequent $ strength but nary a whisper on HRH.
Re: the King ...virtually nothing on google since Sunday where he was reported as "well".
Considering UPI had him deceased last Wednesday (5-25) and given the uptick in Oil of late, is it not conceivable a media blackout is in place on his health (or otherwise) so as not to rattle a VERY delicately poised Marketplace.

USAGOLD Daily Market ReportPage Update!#1328256/3/05; 16:56:38">
The Daily Gold Market Report has been updated.

If you are considering investments in gold we invite you to">request our free introductory information packet detailing the products and services offered by USAGOLD ~ Centennial Precious Metals. We welcome your inquiry and look forward to working with you.

Friday Market Excerpts

June 3 (from Reuters) -- Gold futures in New York settled up a three-week high Friday as investors shifted into U.S. dollar alternatives on the heels of a weaker-than-expected U.S. payrolls report for May.

COMEX August gold futures gained $1.00 to end at $425.80, its highest close since May 11, after trading $423.80 to $427.

The market seemed calm after yesterday's 1.7 percent jump -- a big move for gold prices -- when a huge reduction in short positions in futures dropped open interest 10,433 contracts to 254,084 lots.

"I think investors are temporarily frozen in their positions" and watching the direction of the euro, said a New York desk trader. "But we are building a base here."

U.S. employers added only 78,000 workers to their payrolls last month, far fewer than the expected 185,000 new jobs. The unemployment rate edged down to its lowest level since September 2001.

The euro rose to a high around $1.2343, from about $1.2290 before the report, in an initial knee-jerk reaction, before sliding to $1.2213. Political uncertainty in Europe after the French and Dutch voted against referendums to support the EU constitution also continued to pressure the euro.

But, some gold players were saying gold had decoupled from the euro.

"After three years of disdain for the dollar in favor or the 'new' euro, then a cooling in the relationship, gold is telling us perhaps that disdain has spread to other currencies, especially the alleged alternative to the U.S. dollar," commented one broker at a futures commission merchant.

OvSKnallgold#1328266/3/05; 19:05:39

I suggest that you post your
summaries in English and give
a link for the German full
text for those who understand
it. Danke schoen. OvS

GoldiloxNon-English posts#1328276/3/05; 19:12:21

@ OvS,

That is a very thoughtful suggestion for all of us mono-linguistic Americans!

My thanks -

(:^) Goldilox

Dollar Bill.,.#1328286/3/05; 21:00:52

Cometose, good to sit ringside with you. Your sisters, do you mind if I refer to them as THE inflection point, THE turning point, the first passengers to realize to board the Titanics safety boats with proper alarm. I take thier report as THE sign that we have hit the iceberg. I know there is no confirmation from any source officially that we have hit, but I just choose to believe that time will prove that it is now.

Goldilox, your question;
..A better question might be "why do they want to flatten the yield curve so drastically?" Are they so resigned to dollar destruction that they have capitulated and just want to ride the roller-coaster and play George Soros on the way down?..
I find myself poseing questions more and more. Not that they make it to the forum very often, but there are so many unexplained actions that make good questions.
Forum Mates, thanks for all your postings.

GoldiloxSibclair gets burned by the media#1328296/3/05; 23:56:33


The sponsors of my six TV spots yesterday have sent me digital copies of the advert they submitted. What came out was a voice-over of what I said, muting me with significant footage left on the editing floor. I do trust the sponsors will get a significant refund. TV is not cheap. Anyone that wishes to see the submitted version let me know. I will send it to you digitally.

Yes, the New York Times Magazine article is coming out this weekend and the copy is unaltered. In my opinion, it is a good delivery of the fundamental character of gold where my interview is concerned. However, you have to love the title, "Gold Kooks!" My feeling is that is a better title than being called a "Golden Oldie."


Not all that surprising. TPTB completely control the broadcast media, and they are NOT going to allow his message to hit the mainstream airwaves. Joe Sixpack might accidentally see it while channel surfing during the 20 minutes of commercials per hour of programming.

GoldiloxSinclair, of course#1328306/3/05; 23:57:58

I burned myself by typing in the dark.
The Invisible HandGreenspan's turn to talk#1328316/4/05; 04:04:26{B5C072AC-B122-4101-BA85-A68DF1642EF4}&siteid=google

Late Monday, Greenspan will be part of a public conversation among four central bankers, including Europe's Jean-Claude Trichet, Japan's Toshiro Muto and China's Zhou Xiaochuan. That event in Beijing should focus on global growth, with special emphasis on trade and currencies.
The big event of the week, however, comes Thursday morning, when Greenspan sits down with the congressional Joint Economic Committee in Washington to talk about the U.S. economy.
We expect him to reiterate the FOMC's heightened inflation concerns," as seen in the increasingly stronger language on inflation in the Federal Open Market Committee statements and minutes, said Mickey Levy, chief economist for Bank of America
At this point in Greenspan's career, there's probably only one thing he knows for certain: Jan. 31, 2006, cannot come soon enough.

The Invisible HandEurozone is a house without a roof#1328326/4/05; 04:44:43

I thought Another and Trail Guide had taught us that the euro is a currency (which will make it because it is) without a country. Here's what a leading euro economist thinks on the subject.

An article published in today's Brussels daily De Standaard writes that Leuven University economist Paul de Grauwe says that the euro offers some countries no clear advantages and that the euro is seen there as the cause of much of the economic problems. According to De Grauwe, the problemwould be the differences in growth in the eurozone. And the differing evolution of the competitive ability of the EU Member States enhances these differences even more.
The paper opines that De Grauwe is right when he says that the problems can only be solved through more political integration. The referenda in France and Holland indicate however that more political cooperation will not happen in the coming years.
"Without that integration, the Eurozone is a house without a roof which is very uncomfortable", said the professor. De Grauwe therefore concludes that many inhabitants will sooner or later leave the house. De Standaard thinks this conclusion is a bridge too far.

De euro biedt voor sommige landen geen duidelijke voordelen, vindt hij, en wordt er integendeel als de oorzaak van heel wat economisch kwaad gezien. Het probleem ligt volgens De Grauwe bij groeiverschillen in de eurozone. ,,En de uiteenlopende evolutie van de concurrentiekracht in de lidstaten doet de verschillen nog toenemen.''
De Grauwe heeft overschot van gelijk als hij zegt dat die problemen maar verholpen kunnen worden door meer politieke integratie. Het Franse ,,non'' en het Nederlandse ,,neen'' tonen aan dat meer politieke samenwerking de komende jaren niet heel waarschijnlijk is.
,,Zonder die integratie is de eurozone een huis zonder dak'', zegt de hoogleraar, ,,dat steeds minder comfortabel wordt''. Zijn besluit dat veel bewoners het huis daarom vroeg of laat zullen willen verlaten, lijkt echter een brug te ver.

The Invisible HandBetter translation of the house without a roof#1328336/4/05; 04:56:34

Paul De Grauwe of Leuven University in Belgium said: "Without political integration, the eurozone is a roofless house that becomes increasingly uncomfortable. Many inhabitants will want to leave the house sooner or later.
"The current situation is dangerous ... The euro does not offer clear advantages to some countries and is considered there to be a source of economic slowdown

The Invisible HandPsychology of the house without a roof#1328346/4/05; 05:08:12

It's not economics nor political will, it's psychology. What were Another and Trail Guide talking About?

Still, said Paul de Grauwe, a Belgian specialist on the euro, "something psychological has changed." Like many economists, he contends that the long-term viability of the euro hinges on the gradual political integration of the countries that use it - a prospect that, for now at least, is dashed. "Can the euro survive without a political union?" De Grauwe said. "I have my doubts."

Dollar Bill.,.#1328356/4/05; 08:28:07

This from a Goldilox link.
"There is a stern warning out there for all those central bankers that intervene in the currency market to defend their respective currencies - and mostly fail.
The FT reported that the former governor of the Thai central bank, who tried to defend the Thai baht in 1997 at a cost of US$4.6 billion, has been asked to pay it all back.
Unconfirmed reports suggest he has asked for higher limits on his Visa and American Express and a reverse mortgage on his palm-thatched house on the banks of Bangkok's Chao Phraya river."
Well, the big boys are really turning the screws on this one world order thingee. The above really documents their control and speaks volumes.
I say, the French have provided an education that the powers that be will not ignore.
They will not allow a vote to stand in the way of the greater global union. The people will not be allowed to stop this new world, no attempt will be made to honestly give voters in any category to give final say on this new world order.

GoldiloxTo Vote ot Not to Vote#1328366/4/05; 08:59:30

@ $Bill,

I think you're on the right track, but it appears the deceit may take a "new" approach, where they will stress "financial union" over "political" union."

Joe Sixpack (or Jaques, as it may be) is less likely to "follow the money", as that always brands us as "conspiracy nuts" - and more likely to "follow the false political trail".

Political leaders are more and more just "mouthpieces" for the men behind the curtain.

"O, what a tangled web we weave
When first we practice to deceive"

"But when we've practiced for a while,
How vastly does improve our style"

- Sir Walter Scott

MKInvisible Hand#1328376/4/05; 09:16:10

You are a bit confused on the FOA/Another connection to the phrase "a currency without a country." I coined the phrase and it was in the context that the euro might fail without the support of a "cohesive" nation state. Some took exception to that here. I am in the process of compiling my euro/consitution posts, including one I had previously lost and now happily found, for posting here and at a separate page.
GoldiloxNext week in Gold#1328386/4/05; 10:05:20

@ Gandalf,

I have a gut feeling that we're set for some hungry hounds next week, so

as Sinatra would have sung:

"dum, da-da-dum, dum, dum da-da-dum

Start shreadin' the Roos!"

USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.Serving gold investors for over 30 years, now serving you 24 hours each day!#1328396/4/05; 10:29:27">gold -- a global calling card
Clink!Oil Storm #1328406/4/05; 11:23:06

Is this another marker along the trail ? Tomorrow at 8pm, FX is broadcasting a "mockumentary" about the price of oil. To quote the newspaper review (sorry, can't find a link) :-

The two-hour movie, playing out in documentary style that looks remarkably like a PBS Frontline special, examines what could happen if a series of unfortunate events befell the nation's oil supply .....

...set in September of this year, opening as a Category 4 hurricane squeezes past Key West and into the Gulf of Mexico. The storm crushes Louisiana oil fields, tanker ports, pipelines and refineries. Oil prices are immediately affected, with gasoline jumping to $4.29 a gallon.

End snip.

What seems so intriguing about this movie is that we are not talking about a freak chain of 10 sigma events, but a quite plausible sequence. After Ivan last year, a Cat4 hitting Louisiana or Houston (remember Galveston in 1900 ?) isn't unlikely - it's just a matter of time. The preview goes on to say :-

Don't think damage to a few refineries would make a big difference ? In reality, an explosion at one Texas refinery in March bumped prices at the pump. It turns out that lone plant produces 3% of the nation's gasoline supply....

....When it reaches $8.29 a gallon, it takes drivers of the biggest pickups and SUVs more than $200 to fill up.

End snip.

That last reminded me of a Bizarro cartoon of a couple of years ago which I have pinned to my office wall. It has a couple looking at this humonguous SUV, with the salesman saying, "And when gas gets above $8 a gallon, you can always put it up on bricks and move the family into it."


mikalEuropean news #1328416/4/05; 16:39:14 EUbusiness - Euro in Italy to stay, says top commission official - AFP - June 4, 2005
mikalCFR plans CAFTA, Bilderburg, Trilats, etc on SS and entitlement spending?#1328426/4/05; 17:21:47

Bush lays out economic plan for U.S. - Rex Crum - June 4, 2005
Will we get Plan A or Plan B? Maybe neither one - MK's St. Gaudens Double Eagle below has a third side for coin tossing!

Gandalf the WhiteYES, INDEED, Sir Goldilox#1328436/4/05; 18:26:07

One might think that it was nearing "CONTEST TIME" ?

The Invisible HandIt's philosophical realism, stupid#1328446/4/05; 18:27:37

I asked in today's message msg#: 132834
It's not economics nor political will, it's psychology. What were Another and Trail Guide talking about?

Psychology is the scientific study of behaviour and mental processes (Atkinson & Hilgard's "Introduction to Psychology", Thomson Wadsworth, 2003, 14th ed., p.5)

Economics and political science developed also to investigate particular domains of human behaviour (Conrad Phillip Kottak, "Anthropology – The Exploration of Human Diversity", McGrawHill, 2000, 8th ed. p.20)

The art of good economics consists in looking not merely at the immediate but at the longer effects of any act of policy; it consists in tracing the developments of that policy not merely for one group but for all groups (Henry Hazlitt, "Economics in One Lesson", New York: Arlington House, 1979, p. 17)

Politics, on the other hand, is a many sided conflict among individuals and groups acting to get government to help then or keep government from doing them harm. Political action is never easy. The stakes are high, the opposition is though, and each competitor has to decide what combination of the following main tactics is most likely to bring success: lobbying, working inside political parties, mass propaganda, litigation, demonstrations, strikes and boycotts, non-violent civil disobedience, and violence. (Austin Ranney, "Governing – An Introduction to Political Science", 2003, 8th ed., p.8)

These political tactics do not seem to be precisely what Another and FOA/Trail Guide had in mind. What did they have in mind? Here are some snippets from the first message of the Gold Trail (at the link). The message is numbered msg#6

FOA (2/23/2000; 19:49:22MT - msg#6)

None of us are the first, nor will we be the last to take this hike. Over time, various people and nations have been on this path, perhaps going back a thousand years or so. During some periods this same trail was followed right through the main stream of society. While during other times, like today it has tracked far away from the economic illusions in our modern world
Back to the first question: all of you already know me. Just look in a mirror and see for yourself. I'm the butcher, baker and bricklayer,,,,,, doctor, lawyer and the banker. From the Texas oil man to the yardman in Hollywood, I represent the thoughts, feelings and perceptions that many people have, but never express. After we share some time on the trail, many of you may find that most of this understanding and knowledge of FOA was already with to you to begin with. Truly, it was the years of exposure to "Western life" that has obscured our good reasoning.
We must view the world in a broad context, just as much as in a detail perspective. The larger perception can be just like looking at a river the valley from the ridge above. From far away it's easy to see what direction national trends are flowing. The whole body moves as one, always towards the sea. The problem comes when we get too close and interpret things using only a small river section in front of us. More often than not, the white water we see only hides a deeper flowing truth.
Within every social order, people have conflicting factions that try to dominate the whole. But if one can understand and pinpoint the logic and reasoning of several dominate groups, we can get a grasp for the overall eventual flow. We have seen through out history and in our modern life that the human spirit, most always reaches for and leans towards natural conclusions to ages old problems. There is something in us that makes mankind flow this way. Time and again we build up our emotional will. Then in a great flood we literally overwhelm the branches and rocks that distort our progress through this stream of life.
Our most broad view, expressing our strongest position is this: From ten or perhaps twenty years ago a political will, a concept was being formed that would today change the economic architecture and power structure of the world. Within this change, gold would undergo one of the most visible transformations since it was first used as money. We expect that starting three or four years ago, the actual gold market itself, started responding to this sea change. As such, in our time, physical gold will enter the greatest bull phase in it's human use history.
"the human river flows for the will of no man,,,, it takes our precious time as it's own
our lives are spent learning how it does pass,,,,, yet it will never know how we have grown"

We are told here by FOA that in the main stream of society perceptions are living which people have but which they never express. These perceptions concern the fact that we should return to natural solutions to age old problems. We are urged to bring these perceptions through good reasoning to their natural conclusions/solutions. One of the natural solutions which is slowly arising and which is the result of a political will, i.e. the will of the citizens which form the political community, is that a concept is being formed that will change the economic architecture and power structure of the world. This concept is not being formed by the (political) tactics which Ranney described.

Quite to the contrary, the concept arises naturally out of the natural order of the human world. There is a world out there which exists independently of our representations. By respecting the facts of how the world is and how it works and by viewing truth as correspondence to these facts ,
we can come to see how concept is being formed that will change the economic architecture and power structure of the world

This is precisely what philosophical realism is about.
(Barry Smith "John Searle: From Speech Acts to Social Reality", in: Barry Smith, ed., "John Searle" Cambridge University Press, 2003, 1, p.2
see also Jonathan Dolhenty "What is philosophical realism?" )

As Pythagoras (you know, the one of the square of the hypotenuse of a right angled triangle) said:
Life is like a festival, just as some come to the festival to compete, some to ply their trade, but the best people come as spectators (theatai) so in life the slavish men go hunting for fame (doxai), the philosophers for truth.
(reported by Diogenes Laertius and quoted by Hannah Arendt, "The Life of the Mind", Harvest Books Harcourt Inc., One-volume edition, 1978, I, p.93).

The "nobility" of the spectators is only that they do not participate in what is going on,
but look on it as a mere spectacle.

Let me take this further.

Physicists seek a THEORY THAT WILL UNIFY ALL THE KNOWN FORCES OF NATURE. (Four forces currently are known: the strong force, the weak force, electromagnetism and gravitation.)
Although string theorists were studying space-times of 10 or 11 dimensions, the universe was found to curl into Plank-scale compact 6-manifolds, the Calabi-Yau spaces. Calabi-Yau spaces are 6-manifolds. These are spaces of considerable PURE-MATHEMATICAL INTEREST and had been studied previously by Calabi and Yau for such reason. Afterwards, reality was found to fall into these spaces.

Here's what Roger Penrose is saying about this:
This is a very remarkable argument that strongly indicates that there is indeed something going on behind the scenes. As things stand, this is distinctly enigmatic. There is certainly something very non-obvious to be unravelled in the mathematics and some - more recent- mathematical developments appear to have gone some way towards achieving this. But the more important question has to do with the physical significance of these results. Are we entitled to infer from the undoubted fact that string theory
has supplied deep and previously unexpected insights into MATHEMATICS that it must also have a deep PHYSICAL correctness? The answer to this enigma is far from obvious. (Roger Penrose, "The Road to Reality - A Complete Guide to the Laws of the Universe", London: Jonathan Cape (Random House), 2004, p. 914)

Goldilox(No Subject)#1328456/4/05; 19:24:40

@ TIH,


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.

"Excerpts from the Notebooks of Lazarus Long" - Robert Heinlein

A number of thinkers have suggested that one of the more vulnerable aspects of modern society is brought on by over-specialization, where no one is left with broad enough vision to "see the forest for the trees."

Perhaps best captured by Heinlein's above quote.

The Invisible HandIt's a volcano, stupid! #1328466/4/05; 20:17:52

Tomorrow's British press

Hamish McRae: We can make the single currency a scapegoat but we can't make a death wish come true,6903,1499550,00.html
Now is the time to turn despair into opportunity

THE ANTI-EURO’S,,2095-1641196_1,00.html
Sound of discord puts Euro vision out of tune
IT always surprises me that serious commentators do not draw the parallels more often between the two great initiatives aimed at closer European integration: the EU and the Eurovision Song Contest
Stuart Thomson, an economist with Charles Stanley Sutherlands, the stockbroker, says in a paper that the French referendum was the beginning of the end for the euro. The collapse of monetary union is inevitable by 2020, he writes, as the European economy comes under increasing pressure, not least from its ageing population. But he also sees a 50% probability of a partial break-up by 2008, with one or more member states withdrawing, partly as a consequence of the currency- market backlash as China and Japan abandon their policy of supporting the dollar through large-scale purchases of US government bonds.
The music is coming to a close and the euro isn't singing any more.,,2088-1641348,00.html
Let the Turks in to finish off the Euro superstate,6903,1499288,00.html
With last week's no-votes putting the kibosh on economic reforms that might have boosted the eurozone's growth prospects, the pressures of co-existing with one interest rate and 12 different labour markets could become harder and harder to bear. Investors will inevitably be wondering how long the single currency will be able to take the strain.,6903,1499305,00.html
Dangerous rumblings from a volcano
n recent years two major events had repercussions that contributed to the unease manifested in the French referendum. These events were not unconnected. The fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989 and the Soviet Union's collapse in 1991 reopened the floodgates to the kind of market fundamentalism that had reigned before the Second World War but had been held in check for much of the postwar period.
Concerned about the prospect of a reunited Germany, President Mitterrand of France insisted on a deadline for a European monetary union (EMU) that would otherwise have evolved more slowly. Chancellor Kohl of Germany went along with him because he also wanted 'to tie Germany down' in Europe. As many of us who were not at all anti-European feared at the time, EMU was a historical gamble because it was running way ahead of the kind of political union normally associated with successful monetary unions. Moreover, the economic governance of the eurozone, in the run-up to its inception and in practice, has had a marked deflationary bias
The eruptions in the eurozone are as nothing compared with what may lie bubbling away beneath the surface of the volcano that is our present 'extreme liberal' international monetary system.

I'm not sure I agree with the qualification of the international monetary system as 'extreme liberal'.

TownCrierVon Braun's Rocket School of Economics update... "Funny money, real money, and YOU -- Part 4"#1328476/4/05; 20:27:31 (excerpt)
Obviously central banks can survive with 'bad' loans on the books of their respective members for quite some time, Japan being an example. The Chinese banking system is supposedly riddled with non-performing loans as well. The reserve component of both these entities is predominately US dollars, and they can advance these numbers simply by printing more of their own paper and using that to buy more dollars. As we have seen, the BOJ can act to support the dollar to a very large degree. What they are actually buying is another question but that is their problem.

The only safe answer to the currency question is the ownership of gold, either coins or bullion, having taken delivery and then arranged safe storage -- preferably away from the reach of Uncle Sam. Whether the gold price falls from here or not, the key is actual ownership of the metal and this can not be stressed enough. Should, as the Bob Prechter camp continues to tell us, gold decline to a new low, there remains the unexplained issue of who would be the seller of gold at that price whatever it may be. Transactions would need to take place for that price to hold and I for one, doubt that would last, if indeed it did occur.

Once again, from an investor's perspective, the key is ownership of the metal, which means taking delivery! So what if gold retraces from current levels, supply is already tight and controlled by the paper market when it comes to price. The paper market as many commentators have rightly pointed out is not dependant on physical metal being delivered against the contracts. One day this will change, but that day is still some time off in to the future. Accumulate the metal while its available is the safer strategy as you don't really know the shape and form of the event that has the potential to bring down the house of cards. And I don't think anybody does.

An unwelcome event could be gradual, or it could be sudden, but any plan to go actively neutral on currencies and on currency denominated paper assets, whatever they may be, after an event, will be difficult to say the least. Calling your friendly coin and bullion dealer could be difficult as others may have the same idea and both service and supply might become 'interrupted'.

Chris PowellNYTimes Magazine notes gold but pointedly avoids manipulation issue#1328486/4/05; 20:55:10

Latest GATA dispatch.

To subscribe to GATA's dispatches, send an e-mail to:

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GoldiloxNY Times#1328496/4/05; 21:40:48


I think that is Sinclair's article.

See his site.


Dollar Bill.,.#1328506/4/05; 21:49:29

Well, I view the following as capitulation to the new world order dollar reign. The "new communism" as Chirac puts it, is on its way. Africa might be the target that causes structural changes towards the new --shareing-- system of the new world order. Infinite debt is here to stay.
The Titanic can now float past any iceberg gash incidents.
Any disruptions in the economy due to derivitives keeling over will not destroy the new world order, but may hasten it. My new opinion is that the Frenchmen have saved themselves only to lose themselves quicker.
When they see the nwo manifest, at some point, they may agree to a EU, however, then it will be to late.

"Mr Blair, who will seek to shift the focus of his administration on to poverty in the Third World this week during talks with President Bush, has told his closest allies: "Africa is worth fighting for. Europe, in its present form, is not."
The signal is an astonishing U-turn for a leader who said three years ago that the euro was "our destiny" and who announced a British referendum by proclaiming: "Let the battle be joined." But one of his closest allies said that Mr Blair no longer believed that putting Britain at the heart of Europe could be his legacy: "Europe is back to the drawing board. Africa will become more important."
Mr Blair flies to Washington tomorrow to try to secure support for proposals to tackle poverty ahead of next month's G8 summit in Gleneagles. But the Prime Minister is unlikely to be able to divert attention completely from the chaos over Europe's future.
President Chirac of France and Germany's Chancellor Schröder held a summit in Berlin last night after the No votes in France and Holland on the constitution.
Yet the crisis widened beyond the document alone, with a media offensive being mounted to bolster the euro after German officials and an Italian minister openly discussed its possible demise. In the first rumblings of a call for the franc to be reinstated, Nicolas Dupont-Aignant, a member of Mr Chirac's ruling UMP party, said: "France, Italy and Germany would be in a better state without the euro. However, I don't believe we should ditch it now.
"But either it is reformed, and the central European Bank kick-starts growth by lowering interest rates and pursuing a more American-style monetary policy, or the euro will explode in mid-air."
The governor of France's central bank, however, rushed to the euro's defence. Christian Noyer said that the currency was "in no way under threat" following its fall in value since the No votes of the past seven days. He dismissed as "absurd" the idea of a temporary withdrawal from the euro by individual states.
"The euro is a solid currency which brings us a lasting guarantee of stable prices and thus the maintenance of purchasing power for our wages and savings," he told Le Parisien newspaper.
The markets have been slowly adjusting to the possibility of the break-up of the euro, with the spread between government bonds in different countries widening.
Last night, John Redwood, the leading eurosceptic Tory MP, said: "You can't have a single currency without a single government. They are in a mess because they have only done half of it and they are now discovering in a painful way what that means."

Goldilox"extreme liberal"#1328516/4/05; 21:50:17

@ TIH,

I would venture a guess that this term is being used in its "fiscal" sense, not "political".

i.e., Republicans used to be "fiscal conservatives", before they bought into the borrow and spend philosophy they now tout.

When speaking of economics, there is no mainstream "fiscal conservative" affiliation - except those labeled "radical".

Dollar Bill.,.#1328526/4/05; 22:05:41

I am predicting that time will prove that this time right now, is the time when the new world order started.
And also, that this is the time that a derivitive accident started that will domino into a disruption of our economy.
It will hasten the day of revealing the results of our globalization structure which is being constructed quietly.
The -adjustments- to the new structure, will seem like a recession, but will not be because the business cycle actually has been broken. or, in New World Order view, Fixed.
Fixed for the greater good.
Fixed for the brotherhood of man,
Fixed by the smarter brothers among us,
Fixed by the brothers who will lead us to a greater shareing.
Fixed by unidentifiable brothers
Fixed by big brother.
Welcome to the first early signs of the dawn of........

Chris PowellReply to Goldilox NYTimes Magazine article#1328536/4/05; 22:22:46

I'm not sure what you mean by "that is
Sinclair's article." The article posted
at the GATA site is from the New York
Times Magazine.

Dollar Bill.,.#1328546/4/05; 22:53:19

In my opinion, the first acts of the NWO is aid to Africa.
Right now it is happening through many organizations, but I would pick out one feature of the nwo's activities there.
Govt money, provided by the new infinite debt machine, is going to religious organizations to provide services.
While a case can be made for the -positives- of this arrangement, I say that the new tie, between church and state, allowed by the new supreme court idea of -nuetrality- is a grave error.
The cursed notion of -nuetrality- is flawed, and leads to a host of evils down the road.
In the US, this funding of church organizations, called -faith based services- is up and running to the tune of at least 2 billion dollars yearly.
The schools, are teaching -about- religion. This, courtesy of the supreme court ruling in 1963.
I am writing up a court arguement at this time to defeat both the -nuetrality- idea, and the -about- idea.
I plan to submit it to the supreme court in the summer.
The new world order needs some constraints and a seperation from church.
This I announce on what I consider to be the first day of the new world order.

GoldiloxSinclair Aryicle#1328556/4/05; 23:28:51

@ Chris,

That's why I sent you to JSMineset, as Jim answers your question there.

(:^) G

Chris PowellReply to Goldilox#1328566/4/05; 23:32:20

I'm sorry for being so dense but I
am aware of Jim Sinclair's
pre-publication comments about the
NYTimes article -- some of which are
not borne out by the article itself
-- and I'm not aware of the question
you say I've posed about it.

CometoseNWO#1328576/4/05; 23:54:23

every generation has seen fit to try to fit the NWO on themselves and their era............
We are not in the era of the NWO ..........
The seat of the NWO is going to be Europe .
In order for the NWO to happen all the worlds peoples , nations and tongues have to be on board.........THEY ARE NOT and WILL NOT BE ........

CHINA is on the threshold of being superpower NO 1 .....and they are a planned economy as in the next 100 years and they know this is true....and they have planned for their families and the infrastructure for those families and they are planning well into the future ... to be NO 1 and to dominate the WORLD economically why would they ( the leaders of the Chinese Central Committee{planners} become distracted now to decide that they are going to go along to get along and become NWO groupies .....when there is no force on earth that requires this of them and they have no compulsion to do so (BECOME SUBJECT TO a WESTERN SOCIAL ENGINEERING PROGRAM).

The people of the world have always had enough saavy and strength and intelligence to see the boogie man when he started his premature nwo dance ........and THE PEOPLE of the world always resisted and undermined the efforts toward such an outcome ....

Some one else who is not on board is THE ARAB WORLD ....

CUBA is not onboard either ........Neither is VENEZUALA ....

I've got further bad news for any NWO pushers out there .... CHINA wants the oil that it needs to take care of the families in CHINA and to take care of CHINA's booming planned economy ....and CHINA has built a highway into the middle east that it guards and patrols when the Indian extremists pick a fight and cause disturbances in India near their highway ...

You can say that the NWO is going to fix all things economic and solve all international problems by bringing all nations into compliance under one roof.....but I certify you that that is going to happen in one time and one time only in world history and it isn't going to happen before the season appointed for it to happen.....

If you think that the NWO is going to appear like some savior and save the world economy and bring peace and make all things copacetic for you are having a huge (wet dream) fantasy .......

We're more likely to have a chapter in history that looks like the following :

Economic Depression Globally
WAR ......
accompanied by large loss of life......because

MARKET BASED ECONOMic growth for efficient distribution of natural resources ....was unseated by SOCIAL ENGINEERING BUREAUCRATS ..GREED and administering of SOCIALIST IDEAS .......and the fall of Unlimited BANKING EXPANSION because of DERIVITIVES MISTAKES.....


Whether the NWO takes over or WHETHER WE HAVE SEVERE ECONOMIC and GLOBAL CHANGE matters not the absence of the VOICE of THE PEOPLE and the WILL OF THE PEOPLE being carried out ........

THE FREE PEOPLE who have tasted FREEDOM and KNOWN FREEDOM know what is good for the rest of the world .......
and there are four branches of GOVT IN THE FREE REPUBLIC OF THE US OF A . THE executive , the legislative , the judicial/ courts , and THE PEOPLE (CONSTITUENTS).......THE VOTERS.


The founding fathers trusted /believed/ assumed that the people would continue to be as well informed and vigilant as they were .....230 years ago ......They never knew that the voters would become enslaved to debt , and to work , and that in that state would develop sociological needs for drugs and become mentally handicapped. Our founding fathers were not aware that TV would become a testing ground for shoving CRAP and CRAPPY INSIGHTS and CRAPPY pursuits down the throat of the PEOPLE to the intent that the PEOPLE would become blind to anything but their self centered petty desire driven lives and therefor become inept and voiceless in the DEFENCE OF FREEDOM AND DEMOCRATIC RULE ......

In the beginning ..............of the declaraion of INDEPENDENCE,,,,,,,,,,,it says WE , THE PEOPLE .......

(when the people lose their soul ,,,,,,,they are no longer the voice of we , the people but rather the voice of GIMME GIMME GIMME..WHERE IS MINE?BLIND SELFSEEKERS)

IN the Gettysburg address, Abraham Lincoln said " that GOV'T of the PEOPLE , BY THE PEOPLE , AND FOR THE PEOPLE may never perish from the EARTH .........

THERE WAS GREAT FAITH on the part of our forefathers in THE PEOPLE ......always being AWARE and that their VOICE WOULD always be PRESCIENT , PRECISE , and VALID in the guiding of the AFFAIRS OF THE STATE.....CUTTING / LEADING EDGE .....SHARP like a SURGEON's SCALPAL ......

THIS WAS the BALANCE and HOPE OF THE BALANCE FOR THE FUTURE when these things were said and written ....

WHEN HOPE DIES and VIGILANCE FAILS IN THE PEOPLE . and the voice of the people is mute .....EVIL VOICES and EVIL MEN and EVIL purposes prevail .......


BUT THE NWO doesn't happen until its appointed time ......

the PEOPLE STANDING UP .........THE PEOPLE"S VOICE ......making things happen in the form of CHANGE.

THE PEOPLE's VOICE is often CATALYZED by LEADERS who MUST RISE UP and REPRESENT THE PEOPLE......and speak the future into being rallying hope and support behind a new vision

I can tell you by looking at the facts..........that AMERICA is SICK because THE UNION is being LED BY A BUNCH OF SELL OUTS..........and will continue to be led by this group of SICKOs until the PEOPLE ACT to PURGE THEMSELVES OF THIS EVIL ILK.........


UNTIL THAT TIME, the AMerican people might aptly be described as

THAT DUMB , BLIND , AND DEAF KID ...............

While we wait,,,,,,,,,,the whole world suffers.

slingshotCometose#1328586/5/05; 06:18:30

We are as wheat waiting for the combine to harvest us.

phil288cometose #132857#1328596/5/05; 08:25:52

Cometose, that was a great and interesting piece. I nominate it for commencement speach of the year to give the next generation a sobering thought.
Dollar Bill.,.#1328606/5/05; 08:57:35

Terrific piece Cometose.
I would add to the analysis this, China will have in 10 years, 100 million people that are termed "floating population". Meaning, no home, no work, no connection.
The US, being the big food producer, has a bit of an ace in a hole because, when the fisheries are fished out or down, land grown food will increase in value, and agribusiness, a large percentage owned by the 51'st state, Japan, will outweigh all the christmas, easter, ect products coming from China.

The Arabs, at this point, seem to have made some deal to sell thier depleteing oil to the west for what I can only guess, is a promise to provide food forever to the arab street.

The Persians, the Iranians, still are in the dollar camp, and Chavez, future dictator of Venezuala, is a socialist, the NWO IS also socialist, and although Venezuala made a rather good deal for thier debt, they signed some very big agreements with the NWO that ties them in as deep as could be. Cuba is the only truly out there country, but is not a beacon for reasonable anti NWO folks because of the tyrannical political and economic structure.
My guess, is that the last wall of the NWO castle is built, with the euro hobbled, although I think they were ultimately just part of the process and planning of top central banker guys to get to the globalist structure, just slower.
With no real opponents, and with the media controlled by socialists, and the opposition media being republican and not even knowing the road being taken by thier leaders, the right and left, are only walking on opposite sides of the same road, going the same direction, while yelling at each other that -this side of the street is better-.
Got to go, church singers are too good to miss.

USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.Hard assets, easy access!#13286106/05/05; 11:53:37">gold -- a global calling card
MKThe new USAGOLD Market Update has been posted. . . . .#13286206/05/05; 14:12:42

Euro-constitution posts
April-May 2005
by Michael J. Kosares

Europe at the moment is a nation without a governing political document. It has a central bank that issues a currency without political protocols - essentially a currency without a country. I see that as a disadvantage, not an advantage. Until that is addressed, it will be a competitor but only in terms of default. Under current conditions, I could easily see the euro simply becoming Dollar Lite in international markets. But that's probably acceptable from the European point of view. It is not interested in sponsoring the chief reserve currency at this time, but more a shared responsibility concept with the dollar. I think this is a G-7 understanding already agreed to tacitly. (4/05/05)

Full article

Ed.Note: This html file includes the lost post I mentioned in a forum post over the past weekend referring to Wolfgang Munchau's Financial Times opinion piece. These posts also cover my comments on the ECB 47-tonne gold sale. I see the gold sale, reneging on the stabilization pact and the no vote as interrelated events. Over the weekend, there were calls from politicos in Italy, Germany and France to return to the respective national currencies.

1340ccThe closing price of gold#13286306/05/05; 14:53:00

I have noticed that a couple of the sites that post the price of gold, silver etc. often quote different closing prices. Why is this?
R Powell1340 cc#13286406/05/05; 15:52:18

Those closing prices of gold differences may be due to some places reporting spot while others may be reporting the nearest (june) future month or even the july future.

Also, many sites are slow to update, even during trading hours. I usually take an average and think long term.
happy weekend

R PowellFewer than 10 posts today.....#13286506/05/05; 19:20:01

tends to make me leave my sleeping bag rolled up and stashed behind your, wait a minute, thats not right. ..lets see, tends to make me wonder if the price of gold might defy it's usual Monday blues and surprise us to the upside. Sometimes such events occur when the bugs are quiet, sometimes...
GoldiloxQuiet Day#13286606/05/05; 20:21:11

I rode to a motorcycle show in Orange County today, and got home just in time to watch the Mets make my Giants look like Gnats!

Takes the wind right out of the sails.

Looks like we're gonna battle the Rox and Royals for draft picks this year.

Go go gadget gold chart! I can use some good news.

PRITCHODEBT CEILING OR DEBT FLOOR?#13286706/05/05; 20:58:52

This piece by Doug McIntosh is full on & to the point -
NO hold barred.If only the American Press would publish!

SNIP - --


It is fantasy at all levels of government. It is fantasy at all levels of corporate America. It is fantasy for individuals. It is fantasy for families. Everywhere I look in the USA I see fantasy and still more fantasy. I see a government system pretending it still functions in the economic arena. They think this because the downstream press doesn't call them to accountability. The reason they do not do this is because the media is owned by the banks. The reason the money supply is increased endlessly by that economic terrorist called Mr. Magoo is because the system will collapse without it. And guess who owns the FED? The same banks that own the media, own the courts, own the politicians and own the entire country. I tell you plainly, the USA has been sold; bought and now the bill is coming due. It is only in the mental delusions of the vast majority of the United States Sheeple this economic farce can continue. The only place suitable for the United States and its fruitcake economy is the padded room at a mental hospital.

1340ccRich#13286806/05/05; 21:16:20

Thanks for the info. on gold quotes.

Hope your right about tomorrow. You often are.

otish mountainThanks MK#13286906/05/05; 22:15:44

Besides this excellent Forum may also I commend you on your very informative "News and Views" addition. With so much happening on a daily basis its good to have a recap of current past events in this evolving gold story.

It was interesting that you included the nugget by Niger Mound in the lastest release. I had read it earlier this week and found it most stimulating if not also entertaining. Good choice.

GoldiloxWagging the Oil Dog#13287006/05/05; 22:27:57

I'm watching the FX broadcast if "Oil Storm" and finding quite a "for instance" in this fictional docu-drama. It's a pure Orson Wells "War of the Worlds" format.

I guess what strikes me is the typical media "hype" format, very sparce news coverage, with little or no background information, riddled with tear-jerking human interest stories. Sadly, not unlike coverage of the 9/11 tragedy.

How is it that our media has evolved into an "imposed empathy" machine in place of being a source of news and information?

My guess is that the media owners have come to believe that they can better reach our emotions than our logic, or at least better fashion a specific response.

Why give people information from which to form opinions when they can instead tug on our heart strings and back us into a corner that requires a politically unopposable response.

Thankfully, the USA Gold Forum has offered us a venue where we can see developing issues and hear the perspectives from all sides of the equation.

MarkeTalkRiots in South Africa#13287106/05/05; 23:42:13

Sunday's edition of the Daily Telegraf out of the UK carried an extensive article about riots by poor blacks against the leadership of President Mbeki of South Africa. The article said the riots were occurring all over the country but primarily in Capetown, a province which has been relatively quiet in post-apartheid South Africa. Now just imagine if the riots manage to shut down the gold mines there. South Africa's gold production is already in decline and this new development would really cause a rally in the bullion price itself while correspondingly cause a decline in the shares of mining companies located there.


GoldiloxDe-hedging slows in March quarter#13287206/06/05; 00:13:49


The pace of de-hedging slowed in the March quarter with a provisional 0,71-million ounce reduction in the delta-adjusted hedge book. This was the central finding of the tenth edition of the quarterly publication 'Global Hedge Book Analysis' prepared by industry consultants GFMS on behalf of the specialist banking group Investec. The modest decline fell significantly short of the levels reported in the preceding four quarters, which witnessed quarterly reductions ranging from 2,1-million ounces to 4,5-million ounces. The report cited an increase in the delta hedge volume of the vanilla options book as the primary factor behind the muted first quarter reduction in producers' outstanding gold hedge commitments. Commenting on the findings, senior metals analyst Bruce Alway said, at 1,60-million ounces the decline in forward contracts was fairly healthy. The offset came from a rise in the options book, itself largely driven by an eight per cent rise in the delta hedge net call position.

The report attributed the noted rise in the net call book to the combined effects of an increase in the nominal volume of sold call contracts and a wider contango, the latter fuelled by the rise in US interest rates. This resulted in higher forward prices and, as a result, higher delta values for future dated options contracts. Despite the relative slow down, the precious metals consultancy is forecasting solid levels of de-hedging for the balance of the year, with a base case, based on scheduled deliveries at the end of quarter one, of 8.eight-million ounces of additional de-hedging. Alway cautioned, however, that a strong price rally in the second half could dampen de-hedging if producers opt to defer and take spot, rather than deliver into lower priced hedge commitments.

TopazBond/Oil#13287306/06/05; 02:47:20

Of all the dislocated comparisons getting about nowadays, the most facinating is Bond/Oil.
Currently 0300, we're seeing a continuation of the diversion WILL break but, "which" will blink first?

Even with the Bond reversal signals, I'd still favour $30 Oil before 5.5% Long Yield ...lets watch!

masEuro#1328746/6/05; 06:57:33

From parts of the Privateer.
Seems people want it to fall apart, sorry just won't happen. Where do you find such a coexistance in this world, we are talking about nations, not states.
The European Union still stands because at its real foundation are three
treaties which ALL the member nations subscribe to. What will happen
next is that a return to the core principle of unanimity will cause another
lengthy sequence of multi-level political talks all across Europe.
The great benefit of adhering to this principle of unanimity is that it is this
which has kept the decades-long sequence of incremental political and
economic integration peaceful.
No nation large or small has been directly politically coerced by any other
nation or group of nations. More important, no nation large or small has
been threatened by military force. Instead, at each setback, the process has
gone back to the drawing board to repair the difficulties. Then, the
advance has begun again.

masThe Gambler#1328756/6/05; 07:03:00

Second part of the Privateer. True or false? Which way will he go?
Gambling For Global Stakes:
Today, the Bush Administration is in the equivalent position of a gambler in Houston or San Francisco in
the period just after the Civil War. This gambler is renowned for his wealth and well known for his great
benevolence to his extended family (Americans in general). He is also known for his massive debts.
Now, he sits at a gambling table and his bluff no longer works. Raising the stakes has made nobody back
off. All the other players just rolled right with him. He has everything he owns, in terms of cash, on the
table. He has borrowed immense amounts from other wealthy men and added these IOU's to his cash
stakes on the table.
The "game" has been going on for a long time and it is ending under the rules of the house. The gambler
already knows that he cannot afford to lose. He has a Colt 44 on his hip and has behind him a legacy of
other games where he has used it. But everybody at THIS table knows that and they are no longer
impressed. He knows that he is not holding a good hand and he knows that if he has to show his hand,
he'll lose. He also knows that if he loses, he has no way to pay off all the IOUs.
He knows that if the Asian gentlemen at the table refuse to co-sign more of his IOUs, then he can no
longer raise the stakes to keep the game going. He knows that he can be called at any time. But he still
has the Colt 44. And now, he has to decide whether or not to use it.
That is the decision now staring President Bush in the face.
The gambler knows the gamblers’ code. All IOUs are honoured, if not on the night, on the next day
before sunset. He knows he can't do that. He knows that he has to win, one way or the other.

masSo the real question is?#1328766/6/05; 07:16:03

Watcha all still doin here? Can any one answer? And what was the US's response? Guess?

The central point in the world's current geo-politics is the placement of US
armed forces in Europe. If they are there and are all to stay there for any
unknown period of future time, then de facto, the US is a global empire. If
there is, even implicitly, a future date for the departure of the US forces
currently based in Europe, then the US ceases to be an empire.
The Germans have now recognised this by asking THE question. This is
the question which The Privateer has informed our global readership about
in previous issues.
This week, Germany has begun to urge the United States to remove all of
its nuclear missiles from German soil. There are now 150 or so land-based
US nuclear weapons deployed on German soil. The foreign affairs
spokesman for the ruling German Social Democrat party, Herr Gert
Weisskirchen (based in the German foreign ministry), and the Liberal
Democrat leader, Herr Guido Westerwelle, have echoed the call for the US
missiles, mostly based at the Ramstein and Büchel US air bases, to be
removed. It is EXIT time.
Members of Germany's ruling Social Democrats and of the Green Party
coalition demanded on Monday, May 2, that ALL US nuclear weapons in
Europe be removed! There are a total of about 480 US nuclear weapons in
Europe. And from the German opposition party, the Free Democrats,
came this. Herr Guido Westerwelle has said the nuclear weapons in
Europe were futile because they were all relatively short-range and would
only be able to target states that are western allies today. All of the three
German parties which matter politically now maintain that the US nuclear
arms are a relic of the cold war and ought to be removed by the USA.
If they are, European nations are free. If they aren't, Europe is occupied.

Goldilox"Ownership Society"#1328776/6/05; 08:02:36

@ Pritcho,

I sometimes wonder if the complete mortgaging of USA Inc., coupled with incredibly rapid rises in property values (accompanied by rising in RE taxes, the gov't's "assessed rent" on your property) and the new bankruptcy laws all add up to the real vision of Dubya's "Ownership Society".

I'm often reminded of Firesign Theater's drunken politician character -

"I'm plowed to be an owned man!"

USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.USAGOLD Market Update#1328786/6/05; 08:38:14

Gold jumped $7 on Thursday in one of its biggest one day gains in a long while. It was no accident that the big move came the day after the Netherlands resoundingly voted against the European constitution. A number of analysts pointed out over the past week that gold could be one of the big beneficiaries from the political disarray in Europe. . . . . . . . . . . But there is quite a bit at work in the world economy that will stir investors to seek refuge in gold. . . . . . The pension crisis in the United States continues to gather momentum. Some of the potential looses being reported are enormous.


Euro-constitution posts
April-May 2005
by Michael J. Kosares

Europe at the moment is a nation without a governing political document. It has a central bank that issues a currency without political protocols - essentially a currency without a country. I see that as a disadvantage, not an advantage. Until that is addressed, it will be a competitor but only in terms of default. Under current conditions, I could easily see the euro simply becoming Dollar Lite in international markets. But that's probably acceptable from the European point of view. It is not interested in sponsoring the chief reserve currency at this time, but more a shared responsibility concept with the dollar. I think this is a G-7 understanding already agreed to tacitly. (4/05/05)

Full article

Ed.Note: This html file includes the lost post I mentioned in a forum post over the past weekend referring to Wolfgang Munchau's Financial Times opinion piece. These posts also cover my comments on the ECB 47-tonne gold sale. I see the gold sale, reneging on the stabilization pact and the no vote as interrelated events. Over the weekend, there were calls from politicos in Italy, Germany and France to return to the respective national currencies. --MK

TownCrierEurope gold near 3-wk high, funds poised to buy#13287906/06/05; 09:05:13

Gold prices were on firm ground in Europe this morning, having already hit a three-week high above $425 per ounce as the dollar struggled to recover from the impact of weak US jobs data last week, dealers said.

"People are watching the currencies although they haven't done all that much so far this morning. Gold is still looking positive with possibly some more fund buying to come - we could see it go to $427," a dealer said.

Barclays Capital said in a daily report that gold prices were continuing to diverge from a slavish adherence to the euro/dollar, as the euro's underlying trend remained lower.

^----(from URL)----^

Recent European drama may have been just the needed stage and act to warrant a breaching of the critical euro-denominated technical resistance level of EUR350. Or was this sudden visitation to resistence merely a 'threat' to inspire a bit more international political cooperation among those with vested 'cheap-gold' interests?

At EUR347, we are certainly on the threshold to find out -- it either plows through or else we wait awhile longer, accumulating while we do.


TownCrierHEADLINE: Central banks remain a puzzle as dollar rises#1328806/6/05; 09:40:32

June 06, 2005
By Craig Karmin and Mary Kissel, The Wall Street Journal

The dollar is enjoying its best run in about four years, leading traders to call off bets against the greenback and strategists to revise their once-bearish forecasts.

Yet the response to this rally -- which accelerated last week on rosier U.S. economic data and jitters about the euro following the rejection of the European Union constitution by French and Dutch voters -- is much less clear from another crucial market participant: central banks.

While the world's central banks hold on average more than 60 percent of their foreign reserves in dollars, many economists believe that diversification into other currencies is inevitable, at least in the longer term.

...diversification into other currencies could pick up if the dollar reverts to an extended bear market. And even a hint that a major central bank, particularly in Asia, may be shifting reserves has been enough to rattle the dollar and disrupt other financial markets.

...Officials in Asia, Europe and the Middle East have further fueled speculation in recent months by publicly pronouncing interest in diversifying their holdings. But they have failed to offer any specifics, and the data used to track central-bank reserves remain spotty, heightening confusion in global markets.

...Traders will get a peek into foreign-reserve holdings later this month, when the Bank for International Settlements releases its annual report. The International Monetary Fund also will offer a snapshot into central-bank holdings in September.

^--------(from url)------^

Perhaps most importantly, the article says:

-------Bankers and economists who deal with Asian central bankers consistently say any foreign-exchange reserve diversification will happen gradually, in part because central banks are loath to depress the value of their own holdings by selling dollars. "News about what (central banks) are doing does create a lot of volatility in the market," says John Cairns, the head of research for IDEAglobal in Singapore. "Overall, I think it would be more efficient for the market to know that information, but it's not in (the central banks') self-interest at all."--------

Given the "self-interest" to see this necessary diversification accomplished successfully, there is no room for failure and thus, no room to embark upon this task in a conventionally expected manner.

For the most part, these piles of dollar assets cannot be sold (who would be the buyer?) without the first few billions rapidly reducing the trade value of the remaining many billions. More likely, a plan is in the works to utilize an existing undervalued asset (gold), which is being quietly accumulated and redistributed, to suddenly rocket in value to whatever levels necessary to provide continuity on the asset side of CB balance sheets on such a day as the holdings of U.S. bonds are acknowledged to be effectively devoid of value.

That very real potential for sudden revaluation is the grand prize that keeps me, as a gold owner, earnestly looking forward and focused on central banking issues and resolutions. In the meanwhile, gold remains a very solid and prudent investment as a means for basic diversification of which everybody should avail themselves. Beyond that, they may one day enjoy a "wealth effect" the likes of which has never before been seen.


Gandalf the WhiteYES, Sir Topaz, I shall "WATCH" with you --- BUT ---#1328816/6/05; 10:06:20

Topaz (06/06/05; 02:47:20MT - msg#: 132873)

Of all the dislocated comparisons getting about nowadays, the most facinating is Bond/Oil.
Currently 0300, we're seeing a continuation of the diversion WILL break but, "which" will blink first?

Even with the Bond reversal signals, I'd still favour $30 Oil before 5.5% Long Yield ...lets watch!
You must promise me that you will "STOP" smoking the Hobbit's "stong" Pipeweed ! I do not think that I shall EVER AGAIN see US$30 oil !!!! AND, I remember the long Bond well above that double nickels number, which I "favor" again !!!!
Please keep those study charts coming.

Druid@Topaz#1328826/6/05; 10:35:08

Druid: How does a 40 yr. credit instrument (mortgage note) factor in to your analysis? Once this type of mortgage becomes widely used won't the credit yield curve along all maturities adjust accordingly thereby buying more time for the credit alchemists? TIA.
Knallgoldeuro Gold#1328836/6/05; 10:50:30

Yes we are watching the 350euro level,if its merely technical or if it has more behind it I don't know.Ernst Welteke (well,the poster here,or was it JacobMarley?) put the light on that level.Usually all these magic lines get passed without fanfare,remember the 360 by Another which I thought was meant in $.Interesting is though that this is all happening in a languishing Goldmarket which is testing major bull lines.There was a forecast by PandaGold that most wil be caught napping when the big one arrives.I admit for having lost some interest in Gold the last months.
Great Albino BatTowncrier: I think you are CORRECT:#1328846/6/05; 11:02:01

From your earlier post:

"For the most part, these piles of dollar assets cannot be sold (who would be the buyer?) without the first few billions rapidly reducing the trade value of the remaining many billions. More likely, a plan is in the works to utilize an existing undervalued asset (gold), which is being quietly accumulated and redistributed, to suddenly rocket in value to whatever levels necessary to provide continuity on the asset side of CB balance sheets on such a day as the holdings of U.S. bonds are acknowledged to be effectively devoid of value."

I think you are quite correct. Why do I think so? Because you have stated the ONLY POSSIBLE THING THE WORLD'S CENTRAL BANKS (excluding the Fed) CAN DO.

Therefore, that is what they are doing (accumulating quietly) and what is going to take place (a sudden coordinated, unexpected and very strong rise in the price of gold).



$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ A "PRICE of GOLD" (POG) GUESSING CONTEST!! $$$$$$$$$$$$

We shall have a price guessing contest on the closing (Settlement price) of gold for the August Comex Contract (GCQ5) on USA Flag Day, Tuesday, June 14, 2005, ---BUT all entries must be posted to the TableRound before Midnight on Sunday, June 12th, AND ALL ENTRIES must answer SIR MK's "QUESTION" !!

The POG Contest winner -- the closest price guess to the actual Settlement Price -- will receive a prize of a Swiss 20 Francs Confederatio goldpiece symbolizing the Swiss confederation of Cantons that eventually became a nation. This beautiful goldpiece has a Fineness of 0.900, and Actual Gold Content of 0.1867 troy ounce and was minted between 1883 and 1896!

(These coins may be seen at the following LINK)
Gold 20 Francs Swiss Confederatio Helvetica

There will be also be two runners-up prizes for the next closest prognostications --- each winning an one ounce pure Silver U.S. Eagle.

The QUESTION -- (Put on your THINKING HATS, as it requires a MULTI-part ANSWER !)

1) Will the Euro survive the recent French and Dutch votes ?
2) Do you believe the elections were a positive, negative, or neutral, for GOLD??
3) If you believe it is a positive or a negative, how many $$$'s do you believe will be added or subtracted from the present price of GOLD???, AND
4) Why????


1) The Winner is the poster with the Price Guess closest to the Settlement price of the COMEX (most active) August 2005 Gold Contract (GCQ5) on the date of Tuesday, June 14, 2005.

2) Price "Guesses" shall be stated in Dollars and tenths !
(Such as $444.4)

3) "Guesses" shall be SHOWN in the SUBJECT BOX location AND enclosed in markers of "Dollar Signs" so as to be OFFICIAL !
(Such as $$$$$ $444.4 $$$$$$$ )

4) ONLY one "Guess" per Knight or Lady is allowed, and once that "Guess" has been "taken" -- no one can duplicate it !! FIRST COME has rights to that "Guess".

5) HOWEVER, All "Guesses" MUST be posted before the clock in Denver strikes MIDNIGHT (24:00) on Sunday, June 12, 2005.

6) AND MOST IMPORTANTLY (as this part MUST accompany the Price prognostication)
--- In order for your entry to be valid, entries will need to have answers to the four part QUESTION, of 30 words, OR MORE. <===== NOTE !!!
LET the CONTEST begin !

GoldiloxPOG "adjustment"#1328866/6/05; 11:26:13

@ TC and GAB,

Why do you think that a slow controlled divestiture of $-based assets will create a sudden "rocket" in gold value, as opposed to reflecting the "slow-controlled" in a more constant gradual rise?

The visual I get pondering this question is tidal flow vs. tidal wave.

TownCrierGoldilox, you misunderstood...#1328876/6/05; 12:41:31

I was saying that it is very likely NOT possible to have a "slow controlled divestiture" of the dollars. However, through the gold revaluation mechanism central banks have a ready solution -- it can rise at WHATEVER RATE NECESSARY to fill the asset-gap left by collapsing dollar reserve value.

Most remarkably, this value shift _could_ occur with existing holdings, that is, in the absence of significant CB bond-selling and gold-buying activities.

However, it stands to reason that the principal CBs involved in promoting this exit strategy would look to establish a more geo-economically equitable distribution of existing gold reserves PRIOR to the mother of all revaluations.

In other words, for example, there is probably a flow of gold to China that is occuring under the radar screen (think of the destinations for the 2,000+ tonnes of European gold reallocations since Sept 1999) which allows it to worry not overmuch over the final valuation outcome of its concurrent dollar-absorption practices. That is to say, absorbing additional piles of soon-to-be-worthless dollars (and bonds) is a low price to pay to facilitate time in acquiring a wholistically offsetting position in ultra-cheap yet soon-to-be-powerful gold reserves.


GoldiloxDollar divestiture#1328886/6/05; 13:05:07


. . . thus the genius of the Chinese controllers in spending as much as possible of their excess $$ for infrastructure and commodities, so as to not appear as divestiture???

I'm not sure I got the answer, but I will continue to ponder it before I ask any more questions.

RimhGoldilox#1328896/6/05; 13:35:50

Probably parallel and not mutually exclusive strategies... (ie. both gold accumulation and commodity/infrastructure expenditures assist the Chinese in establishing their longer term position of power)
TownCrierGoldilox, exit strategy -- naughty or nice is in the presentation#1328906/6/05; 13:44:00

Certainly, on the journy to the same end some paths are more or less politically contentious than other paths. To sell dollars outright in the name of "diversification" would surely rankle Uncle Sam as a vote of no confidence, whereas the simple spending of those dollars is akin to chasing after the American lifestyle.

India not long ago was the first agent I remember seeing to come forward with a publicly stated plan to spend (friendly substitute for diversify) some of its dollar reserves on improvements to infrastructure. What American politician in his right mind would ever have the pluck to blame them?

But that sort of diversification can only go so far before the bond and currency markets get wise to the exodus being underway.

In thinking about a gold revaluation, just consider the 1979-1980 price run-up. The price easily shot through $600, $700, $800 to affect the valuation of every ounce in the world even as far fewer ounces were trading hands to "define" that market and quoted value. This is simply to make the point I alluded to earlier that CB gold reserves do not have to impossibly increase in weight as a precondition to increase in value. (Some so-called analysts have dismissed the reserve relevance of gold by saying it would be impossible for the various CBs, particularly the underweight Asians, to each get enough tonnage to match or replace their dollar holdings. How absurd. They overlook outright revaluation -- a newly high value commensurate with its newly prominent use.)


Dollar Bill.,.#1328916/6/05; 13:47:48

Goldilox, they could be spending on infrastructure, buying western technology to do it.
They perhaps have recognised that inflation is coming on more and more, and why spend later on projects they can do today cheaper? Even with just about free labor, material costs will be going up. Perhaps just feeding all the unemployed is so daunting, and undoable, that they hope to make a dent in that floating population by employeeing it. They are going to be closeing a large number of state businesses that are hemorraging money, and employing them in -infrastructure- will at least look good to all those not getting employed.
If they are taking suggestions for what to do, I would say they should take care of thier water sources and thier water waste problem. That would be number one to me.

TownCrierBTW, About 1980...#1328926/6/05; 14:06:06

The primary reason the price suddenly retreated is that the big players realized that they had gotten so far ahead of themselves there was no safety net in place -- no "Plan B" for smooth international invoicing in the event that the dollar would subsequently implode into a hyperinflationary devaluation. Less than a decade out from the collapse of the Bretton Woods monetary architecture, the markets were too tender and immature to quite yet know where or how to go. In order to regroup and buy time, it isn't hard to see why historically gold-respecting CBs would suddenly facilitate and about-face on their bond$ versus gold attitude and spend the next couple decades trying to downplay the importance of gold and meanwhile encourage bullion banks to make liberal use of such things as unallocated gold accounts to economize on the public demand and supply of gold.

A whole generation later, the markets are more mature, and plan B has made its rounds on the drafting table. If you are willing to accept that central bankers aren't the morons that some people try to make them out to be, you can be sure that when gold is allowed to make its next run at reserve-based revaluation, it'll mark a new paradigm and won't be subsequently brought back down to revisit these old levels ever again.


Topaz@Gandy, Druid.#1328936/6/05; 14:06:32

As can be seen, the "glideslope" 5.5% Yield was about late 2000. Yes, we've revisited ...and I for one thought those revisits would compound into a run ...but they didn't!

So ...what effect the 40Yr Mortgage?
I think the 30 "out-performance" (vis-a-vis the curve) is partly related to the re-issuance of the Long Bond and associated longer dated credit instruments which will or should flick TYXY higher. When all's said and done, not too many souls would carry this debt to maturity eh!

The KEY to all this ($/Bonds/Gold)imo rests squarely with the US Consumer binge. IF they succumb DESPITE low (and lower) mortgages, (inflated RE) Tax cuts, Lower Oil? etc, then abandonment of off-shore US denominated assets is a certainty.

So ...Keep Buying/Binging, your psuedo-prosperity depends on it ...for the minute!

Federal_Reserves$$$$$ $432.30 $$$$$$$#1328946/6/05; 14:22:20

The rejection of the EU constitution pretty much ends the hopes the global EURO's had for replacing the dollar as the world's reserve curreny. Anyone envisioning a united Europe has had his pipe dream explode. Still the EURO will be around - its makes trade among the nations easier.

Going forward the competition will now be dollar versus gold. And if the US plutocrats continue to mount up reckless deficits resulting in a severe credit bubble implosion recession, and as a result debase the taxing power standing behind the dollar, the dollar will tank indepedently of what the EURO does.

968Concluding Statement of the IMF Mission on Euro-Area Policies#1328956/6/05; 14:24:49

"These are difficult times, but the strategy of consolidation, reform, and integration is working and needs to be sustained. Major reforms are undoing rigidities accumulated over past decades, preparing social institutions for the looming demographic shock and enhancing the euro area's resiliency to rising international competition. Unsurprisingly, this has led to stresses and strains. However, the strategy is paying off. The most telling evidence is the sea change in employment performance since the mid-1990s: wage moderation and labor market policies have helped add some 12 million jobs to the area's payrolls, recently with strong results particularly for older members of the population. Moreover, job-rich growth can be expected to continue over the next few years, in part because of the latest, significant entitlement and labor market reforms. However, structural policies are increasingly being questioned even though there is a long way still to go to achieve sustained economic growth and to prepare the European social model for the demographic shock."

"Europe also has an important role to play in addressing key issues facing the global economy, including the orderly resolution of global imbalances."

"The situation is uncertain, with the indicators pointing to softening activity, but the fundamental elements for a continuation of the gradual recovery seem to remain in place."
Sir Randy, can you please share your highly appreciated thoughts on this statement with us, please ? Thanks in advance.

TownCrierKnallgold, the 350 euro level#1328966/6/05; 15:03:53

Here are some charts (and brief commentary) from 9 months ago wherein I tried to highlight the presence of the 350 euro level as something more significant than the $420-430 price level which was getting a lot of (what I thought was unwarranted) attention at the time as if it were meaninful resistance.

And events did indeed subsequently play out such that the $-resistance that I had scoffed at was in fact breached a couple months later (October) and gold ran up to $460 before the current retracement.

Meanwhile, the EUR350 ceiling has been reliable resistence. But here we are knocking again, and that euro-denominated level of 350 surely means more to chartist now than ever it did those nine months ago!

It is therefore very likely that when it is eventually (allowed to be) breached, it will be with a rush rather than a whimper.


Maverick1Oil Storm (The Movie)#1328976/6/05; 15:54:02

Did anyone catch the movie last night on FX about the possible apocalyptic oil shortage?
USAGOLD Daily Market ReportPage Update!#1328986/6/05; 16:22:43">
The Daily Gold Market Report has been updated.

If you are considering investments in gold we invite you to">request our free introductory information packet detailing the products and services offered by USAGOLD ~ Centennial Precious Metals. We welcome your inquiry and look forward to working with you.

June 6 (from Reuters) -- Gold futures in New York closed at a three-week peak on Monday on a mixture of speculative buying and strong demand for bullion.

COMEX August gold contracts settled up $2.60 at $428.40.

Fund buying and trader short covering helped reverse a weak start in gold in the Far East overnight, after physical purchases emerged during a move to lower prices, traders said.

Meanwhile, gold appeared to have decoupled from the euro, which it had been tracking closely over the last four years because of its role as the main dollar-alternative currency.

Gold rose over the last three days while the euro itself moved sideways and its underlying trend still looked weak.

Any move above 350 euros per ounce of gold was seen probably sparking a broader rally in the gold market.

"Gold is starting to firm up against all the currencies. Technically, that is looking very good," said a metals broker at a futures commission merchant.

"Keep an eye on gold at above 350 in euro terms."

(from DowJones) -- At its high, August gold had risen $13.70 from the low posted on May 31.

There was "tremendous" physical offtake when gold had broken down below $420, noted Paul McLeod, vice president for precious metals at Commerzbank.

"That underpinned it very well, although it's a little quieter now that we're up here (at higher price levels)," he said. "But it certainly hasn't gone away."

(from MarketWatch) -- John Person, president of, said the gold market has recently attracted many foreign buyers who are nervous about the dissension amongst the EU and its foreign currency valuation. "What really fueled the market ... is some people were looking at balancing their portfolios or hedging against foreign currency losses and were purchasing gold," he said.

Person said the recent price relationship suggested the gold market has detached from that tandem relationship with currencies and has been more of a leader in the price direction.

He forecast that gold will trade within the range of $424 to $430 this week and will go back to $460-$475 by year's end.

----(see url for full news, 24-hr headlines)----

GoldiloxOil Storm#1328996/6/05; 16:22:57

@ Maverick1,

I was watching last night and postd during the show.

See my post entitled "Wagging the Oil Dog" #132870

TownCrierHEADLINE: Gold price could triple by 2015 as resources dwindle#1329006/6/05; 16:37:08

June7, 2005 -- The price of gold is set to rocket, says Andisa gold analyst Dr David Davis.

His report, 'A trilogy of gold - an exploration in three parts', indicates that gold will reach $1,200 an ounce by the end of 2015.

His prediction is that in 2008 it will go to $700 an ounce, a year later it will climb to $750 an ounce and another $50 an ounce to reach $800 an ounce in 2010.

In arriving at the answer, Davis looks at the current gold price, historical trends in mining operations and historical supply and demand patterns in the 55-page report.

He argues that supply is falling behind demand and fewer reserves are being mined as resources diminish.

Not a new phenomenon, but previously this trend has been masked by Central bank sales and producer hedging - a dying practice.

This, he argues, will mean investors having to be in the right place at the right time to make money.

Dollar weakness is set to continue for the next ten years and supply/demand factors will, as Davis says, "trigger a quantum upward change in the gold price - enough to sustain a higher gold price, but now at a new gold price $ equilibrium".

^-----(from url)-----^

You don't have to take my word for it... others are saying similar things. Although, I think his estimates are too conservatively low, not truly representative of a paradigm shift out of international reliance on a reserve-dollar.


Goldilox'Writing the History of the Revolution is Now Up to You'#13290106/06/05; 17:05:01


While we've witnessed several periods of immense growth in recent decades, the average real income of the bottom 90 percent of American taxpayers - that's a heap of people - fell by 7 percent between 1973 and 2000 (ibid.)

During 2004 and the first couple of months this year, wages failed to keep pace with inflation for the first time since the 1990 recession. They were up somewhat in April, but it still means that "working Americans effectively took an across-the-board pay cut at a time when the economy grew by a healthy four percent and corporate profits hit record highs as companies got more productivity out of workers while keeping pay raises down." (ibid)

Believe it or not, the United States now ranks the highest among the highly developed countries in each of the seven measures of inequality tracked by the index. While we enjoy the second highest GDP in the world (excluding tiny Luxembourg), we rank dead last among the 20 most developed countries in fighting poverty and we're off the chart in terms of the number of Americans living on half the median income or less (ibid)

And the outlook is for more of the same. On the eve of George W. Bush's second inauguration The Economist - not exactly a Marxist rag - produced a sobering analysis of what is happening to the old notion that any American can get to the top. With income inequality not seen since the first Gilded Age (and this is The Economist editors speaking, not me) - with "an education system increasingly stratified with fewer resources than those of their richer contemporaries" and great universities "increasingly reinforcing rather than reducing these educational inequalities" - with corporate employees finding it "harder…to start at the bottom and rise up the company hierarchy by dint of hard work and self-improvement" - "with the yawning gap between incomes at the top and bottom" - the editors of The Economist - all friends of business and advocates of capitalism and free markets -- concluded that "The United States risks calcifying into a European-style class-based society."

-This is from the prepared text of the speech Bill Moyers gave at Take Back America: The Conference for America's Future, sponsored by the Institute for America's Future, in Washington on Friday, June 3, 2005 America"


Interesting read, as voices beyond Nader, et al, are beginning to discuss the economic ramifications of the current corporate oligarchy. Obviously more political than I will comment on during regular forum, but well worth the read, if only to guage the levels of dissent building in what have been more traditionally mainstream political wings.

It is a highly charged, economically focused talk.

ArcticfoxInteresting write up in NY Times#13290206/06/05; 17:06:10

Believing (and Believing and Believing) in Bullion

Published: June 5, 2005


To a small but extremely avid subculture in the American financial community, gold doesn't mean bling, or King Midas, or them thar hills. Gold is money; and not just money, but the one true money. The gold subculture divides along several lines -- some of its members are gold speculators, some gold hoarders, some gold philosophers and some outright nut jobs -- but it unites behind a single idea: Paper money issued by governments, when not redeemable for actual gold, is fraudulent. Most of us accept the existence of dollar bills unconsciously. To the gold faithful, however, a dollar bill is ''ink money,'' or better yet, ''fiat currency,'' a nearly constant term of abuse at gold conferences and in gold chat rooms. ''Fiat currency -- it's a floating abstraction,'' Doug Casey, a star speaker on the gold circuit, bellowed at me over the phone. ''What's its worth? I don't know what it's worth! It's a figment of some government bureaucrat's imagination!''

ArcticfoxTry this..#13290306/06/05; 17:07:21
GoldiloxDavis' Prediction#13290406/06/05; 17:18:40

@ TC,

Although I agree in essence with the price amplitudes presented in Mr. Davis' prediction, as they coincide with Sinclair, Russell, et al. It might be very interesting to further explore his rational for the seemingly rather specific timing, as the initial part of his scenario assumes US$/euro 1.40 this year.

Without completely giving away my contest essay, I wonder just how much the US$/euro ratio has to do with the future POG anyway.

It's one thing thing to preach "gold to the moon", quite another to quote "gold to the moon in 2015!"

-Chicken Little, aka Goldilox

OvSGoldilox#13290506/06/05; 21:10:22

I don't care if you are
chicken little. As long
as you lay a golden egg
here and there. And you
do. Cheers. O and v and

PRITCHO@GOLDILOX -- - RE "OWNERSHIP SOCIETY" (Msg 13877)#13290606/06/05; 23:33:47

Wonder no more --I think you're spot on.Whats more the same pattern is happening here in Australia & no doubt in the UK etc.

It has been widely touted that R/Estate prices have come off the boil in Australia. That may be true in the Eastern States but here in Western Australia the mania is ongoing with NO signs of a let up.Even builders are calling for a halt because costs are blowing out by "up to 40% because Trades men are holding a gun to their heads" (Headlines from Sat West Australian Newspaper.

In what I see as an "echo" to your new bankruptcy laws the Federal Govt here has for the first time control of "both" houses of Parliament.Guess what they propose to introduce?

They aim to reverse the existing "fair dismissal" laws that apply to nearly all employers.ALL employers with under 100 employees will be able to dismiss those workers without giving any reason & with no appeal - apart from excessively expensive Court proceedings.Our current industrial laws have been hard fought & give workers a fair go. After all both the workers & their employers have "mutual obligations"

What I read into this -is that this facist Govt here (they supported Bush) knows what the future holds (ie World Depression) AND is positioning Business to make it easier to lighten up as we progress towards the showdown.

Our economy is mainly based on the Real Estate Building Boom - -ongoing now like in the USA for the past 4-5 yrs.
When (not if) that stops the country will be a different
place indeed. Bring it on!


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ A "PRICE of GOLD" (POG) GUESSING CONTEST!! $$$$$$$$$$$$

We shall have a price guessing contest on the closing (Settlement price) of gold for the August Comex Contract (GCQ5) on USA Flag Day, Tuesday, June 14, 2005, ---BUT all entries must be posted to the TableRound before Midnight on Sunday, June 12th, AND ALL ENTRIES must answer SIR MK's "QUESTION" !!

The POG Contest winner -- the closest price guess to the actual Settlement Price -- will receive a prize of a Swiss 20 Francs Confederatio goldpiece symbolizing the Swiss confederation of Cantons that eventually became a nation. This beautiful goldpiece has a Fineness of 0.900, and Actual Gold Content of 0.1867 troy ounce and was minted between 1883 and 1896!

(These coins may be seen at the following LINK)
Gold 20 Francs Swiss Confederatio Helvetica

There will be also be two runners-up prizes for the next closest prognostications --- each winning an one ounce pure Silver U.S. Eagle.

The QUESTION -- (Put on your THINKING HATS, as it requires a MULTI-part ANSWER !)

1) Will the Euro survive the recent French and Dutch votes ?
2) Do you believe the elections were a positive, negative, or neutral, for GOLD??
3) If you believe it is a positive or a negative, how many $$$'s do you believe will be added or subtracted from the present price of GOLD???, AND
4) Why????


1) The Winner is the poster with the Price Guess closest to the Settlement price of the COMEX (most active) August 2005 Gold Contract (GCQ5) on the date of Tuesday, June 14, 2005.

2) Price "Guesses" shall be stated in Dollars and tenths !
(Such as $444.4)

3) "Guesses" shall be SHOWN in the SUBJECT BOX location AND enclosed in markers of "Dollar Signs" so as to be OFFICIAL !
(Such as $$$$$ $444.4 $$$$$$$ )

4) ONLY one "Guess" per Knight or Lady is allowed, and once that "Guess" has been "taken" -- no one can duplicate it !! FIRST COME has rights to that "Guess".

5) HOWEVER, All "Guesses" MUST be posted before the clock in Denver strikes MIDNIGHT (24:00) on Sunday, June 12, 2005.

6) AND MOST IMPORTANTLY (as this part MUST accompany the Price prognostication)
--- In order for your entry to be valid, entries will need to have answers to the four part QUESTION, of 30 words, OR MORE. <===== NOTE !!!
LET the CONTEST continue !

Gandalf the WhiteTHE FIRST and ONLY POG Contest Entry !#13290806/07/05; 00:12:29

$$$$ $432.3 $$$$ Federal_Reserves (6/6/05; 14:22:20MT - msg#: 132894)
Thanks Sir FR, for starting the Contest !
Don't wait too long before making your Entry !!
AND, REMEMBER to answer the QUESTION when you enter.

Topaz$$$428.8$$$#13290906/07/05; 00:15:29

Yes, Mk's Currency without a Country (to put a positive spin on it) has been the ONE missing link in stitching up a truly global free trade arena.
We had the Gold "Standard" which identified and treated Gold as the exhalted "denominator" ...but alas the demands placed on Democracy to inflate soon put paid to that period of austerity.
The Dollar has been "it" now for 30 odd Years and it's convenient to view this period as "between a Rock (Gold) and a Hard Place"
The Hard Place imo will see the emergence of a -Euro/Oil/Gold Dominator- trinity along the lines as perennially discussed here but we need to get a few things into perspective first.
(a) Taxes/Levies have to drop on Oil priced on the Continent.
(b) a "parity" (or thereabouts) $/Euro to effect a smooth c/over....right!
(c) "someone" has to build an "off-the-shelf" Live, Free, Euro/Oil Chart site on the Net. (tried google ...NiX)

Now, what were the questions? ;-)

GoldiloxNY Times gold article#13291006/07/05; 00:28:16

@ Chris,


Jim Sinclair posted the link to the NY times article on his site this morning.


TopazDX/Gold#13291106/07/05; 03:45:41

With nothing but Air to support the Buck down to 85, it will be VERY interesting to watch PoG as it now turns from resisting a Dollar uptick (slowing the rise) supporting (softening the fall)

Is it just me, or would the World-at-large prefer it that Gold was something more than purely and simply a Dollar Management Tool?

Sundeck$$$$$440.0$$$$$#13291206/07/05; 04:18:03

MK and Gandalf ask:

1) Will the Euro survive the recent French and Dutch votes ?
2) Do you believe the elections were a positive, negative, or neutral, for GOLD??
3) If you believe it is a positive or a negative, how many $$$'s do you believe will be added or subtracted from the present price of GOLD???, AND
4) Why????

1) Yes the Euro will survive because, when the election smoke clears, it will be apparent that the common currency engenders the social and economic well-being of Euroland. There may be some adjustment, temporary and/or nationally-specific, in the growth and stability pact to provide resolution to more or less intractible circumstances, but this is to be expected. No prelaid plan for such a mighty endeavour can reasonably be expected to remain intact and unaltered after being put into effect. Alteration and "fine-tuning" will be the result, rather than the dismantling of such a highly-successful initiative, and one in which so much has already been invested. This too might reasonably be said of the European constitution...round one was a TKO, but several new bouts might reasonably be expected before the final towel is thrown in...if it ever is.

2. I believe the elections may be positive for gold in the short to medium term. That is becuse there is now a certain amout of doubt, uncertainty and mistrust surrounding the Euro, like that which has surrounded the dollar for several years now. Little has changed with respect to the is still a sick drunk dawdling that there are now going to be fewer secure places to which finance and wealth can relocate. Gold is likely to benifit as a higher proportion of people park an increased proportion of their funds in that asset.

3. I can see no good rationale for estimating the size of the benifit to gold, except that I would expect the rate of increase in the POG to steepen somewhat in coming months. The perception of a "sick Euro" added to the entrenched perception of a "sick Dollar" might hasten the trend towards $460-$470 in the next few months.

4. I'm not sure that a countryless currency is necessarily a fatal weakness. After all, gold played the role of a universal currency without a country for thousands of years...instantly recognised in all countries as an unit of value, a means of exchange and a unit of account all-in-one. The dollar tried to emulate these qualities and failed...largely BECAUSE it was a currency of a country that perverted it's already "exorbitant privilege" and continues to do so. The Euro is "closer to gold" in it's inception insofar as it's value is vested in the **collective** integrity of many credible nations; not just one incredible one.

Good luck to all...


USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.FREE Gold Information Packet...#1329136/7/05; 05:04:37

SmeagolO! A Thought...#1329146/7/05; 07:53:41

...just popped into our head, like the blaring of Contesst-Horns!

...wait a minute, precious... that WAS the Contesst-Horns! Ai! Another Contesst (capering) means another chance to win IT! We will guess, yess, we will guess...Ssss! wait, precious...we can make nice guesses later...what about that Thought (ouch!)... inspired by these ssnips from recent Ssir Town Crier posts?:

"For the most part, these piles of dollar assets cannot be sold (who would be the buyer?) without the first few billions rapidly reducing the trade value of the remaining many billions. More likely, a plan is in the works to utilize an existing undervalued asset (gold), which is being quietly accumulated and redistributed, to suddenly rocket in value to whatever levels necessary to provide continuity on the asset side of CB balance sheets on such a day as the holdings of U.S. bonds are acknowledged to be effectively devoid of value.

(Some so-called analysts have dismissed the reserve relevance of gold by saying it would be impossible for the various CBs, particularly the underweight Asians, to each get enough tonnage to match or replace their dollar holdings. How absurd. They overlook outright revaluation -- a newly high value commensurate with its newly prominent use.)"

Is it possible, precious... that "gold holding insstitutions" will wait until ssuch a time as each of them has acquired enough of It to balance not only dollars... but ALL their fiat-currency reserves IN PARITY with all others' holdings? So that their Gold will re-value fiat-reserves evenly everywhere, so to sspeak? Thiss way all fiat would revalue (downwards) evenly without disstortions (tensions) between reserve-holdings of ssaid insstitutions, and all would balance? For ssome reason we jusst has a feeling they would attempt to achieve this... before letting It out of the cage.

If ssuch a gold/fiat-reserve "parity" among brethren is what they are shooting for... by the redisstribution of It as the main foundation, and a shuffling of fiat secondarily (maybe the Caribbean hedge-funds are really being set up as fiat-"shufflers" ... then, we would expect that going forward, the Gold-value held by each compared with the sum-value of ALL its fiat-reserves should be narrowing to a similar value X for all gold-holding insstitutions across the World.

Buy/sell/redisstribute dollar-reserves... buy/sell/redistribute Gold... to adjusst the ratio toward X? When everyone arrives at (or close enough to) X, the final countdown to It's launch begins?

Does thiss make any sense at all, or is it jusst the "1420" going to our head?

In any event... we sstill expect them all to make an amusing show of 'containment' at each pre-engineered 'sstage separation'...sss...(grin)

You need only have this much Gold > = < to ride this ride.
Got your tickIt ready?


TownCrierA unilateral IMS?#1329156/7/05; 08:09:44

WASHINGTON, June 7 (Reuters) - Congress may need to pass legislation to back up the Bush administration's demand that China move to a more flexible exchange rate, the chairman of the U.S. House Ways and Means Committee said on Tuesday.

"We have to let China know, probably from a legislative position, that the recent administration exhortations are supported by Congress," Bill Thomas, a California Republican, said in remarks at a U.S. Chamber of Commerce breakfast.

^----(from url)-----^

When the stakes are this high, for how much longer will the world tolerate an international monetary system that is for the most part administered unilaterally by and for the benefit of the United States Treasury Department?

To paraphrase an old truism:
Experience has shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are indeed sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the frameworks to which they are accustomed. However, when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, the likelihood increases that they shall exercise their right to throw off such hands of government and to provide new guards and designs for their future security.

Expect change, especially as the status quo reveals itself on all sides to be insufferable.

Choose gold to get you safely through the transition. Call USAGOLD-Centennial today and speak with a broker about diversification with gold coin and bullion. 1-800-869-5115


TownCrierSome background...#1329166/7/05; 08:24:03

BEIJING, June 7 (Reuters) - U.S. Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan said on Tuesday he was sure Beijing would soon let its currency move more freely, but China's central bank chief said high expectations and outside pressure were working against an early shift.

China's central bank governor, Zhou Xiaochuan, said great expectations for a yuan change were misplaced....

"It's too heavy on our shoulders," he said of the burden being placed on China.

China still needed to complete preparations for unshackling its currency, he said, adding that policy makers were concerned about the impact on employment and economic growth.

Against this background, politically motivated pressure was not helpful: "This is not a favourable environment for China to put forward its reform and for its decision-making process."

...The central bankers dwelt at length on the puzzle of why global bond yields are so low...

Greenspan suggested a number of reasons, including "new forces" in international markets, but admitted he was stumped for a convincing answer.

"Their nature and their behaviour is not something we are going to fully understand, if ever; certainly except in retrospect," he said of the new forces.

...Trichet did not comment directly on interest rates but said of the ECB's role: "We know that we are an anchor of stability and of confidence and we will do all that we can to preserve and reinforce that level of confidence."

^-----(see url)-----^

No need to worry about the nature and reliability of "new forces" when you have comfortably consolidated your wealth in the security of an ancient and unrelenting force known as 'gold'.


TownCrierA better, more comprehensive assortment of quotes#1329176/7/05; 09:07:28


"As for the building up of international pressure, some of it is not out of economic considerations, some of it is politically based. This is not a favourable environment for China to put forward its reform and for its decision-making process."

"What we are concerned with is not only the impact of the reform on employment and on economic growth. It's mainly, I think, on two points.

"One is whether we have good enough preparations or not. China needs to prepare exchange rate reform in several ways. First is to reform our financial institutions, to let them get into the futures environment of exchange rate flexibility.

"The second is to grow up our foreign exchange market, which allows financial institutions and corporate sectors to use the foreign exchange market to hedge their exchange rate risk. I think it's also helpful for them to integrate more and more into globalisation. So we are doing such kinds of preparations. They need to be reviewed and reach a consensus that all these preparations are well done."


"It is in the interest of China, probably, to augment the value of its currency vis-a-vis the other floating currencies of the world, both because it would improve the terms of trade for China, augment its purchasing power..."

"To the ECB, reform is absolutely of the essence in Europe. Reform is of the essence because we must elevate the growth potential of our vast economy of 307 million inhabitants, growth potential which is too low and which could be substantially, significantly augmented if we were to embark on reforms.

"We know that we are an anchor of stability and of confidence and we will do all that we can to preserve and reinforce that level of confidence in all economic agents' constituencies."


"After its recent very rapid advance, the hedge fund industry could temporarily shrink, and many wealthy fund managers and investors could become less wealthy."

^----(more at url)----^

Have you consolidated your wealth with gold? Or do you have vulnerabilities to hedges and paper performances which could suddenly make you become "less wealthy"?


GoldiloxGM Plans to Cut 25,000 U.S. Jobs by 2008#13291806/07/05; 09:44:33


Tuesday June 7, 11:12 am ET
By John Porretto, AP Auto Writer

General Motors Plans to Cut 25,000 Jobs in U.S. by 2008, Close Plants As Part of Revival Strategy

WILMINGTON, Del. (AP) -- General Motors Corp. plans to eliminate 25,000 jobs in the United States by 2008 and close plants as part of a strategy to revive North American business at the world's largest automaker, its chairman said on Tuesday.

Speaking to shareholders at GM's 97th annual shareholder meeting in Delaware, Chairman and Chief Executive Rick Wagoner said the capacity and job cuts should generate annual savings of roughly $2.5 billion. GM now employs about 111,000 hourly workers.

Wagoner revealed the cutbacks as he laid out a four-step strategy to invigorate GM's North American operations, its biggest and most troubling part. Already this year, GM's U.S. market share has fallen from 27 percent a year ago to 25.4 percent, much of the loss at the expense of Asian automakers such as Toyota Motor Corp. and Nissan Motor Co.


I'm sure they're are still lots of good "contractor" jobs in the war machine, like "checkpoint inspections and demolitions", "armor plate installer", etc., so it should also help "invigorate" flat Armed Forces and KBR recruiting.

Hup, two, three, four,
You had a good job and it left - you're right!

Of course, it will not help balance the budget as 25,000 lost jobs puts a hit on both IRS and SSI revenues -the double whammy!

TownCrierBritain's Brown sees debt relief agreement in days#13291906/07/05; 09:45:52


A multilateral agreement on debt relief for the poorest countries could be struck in days, British finance minister Gordon Brown said Tuesday after a meeting with his European Union counterparts.

"I am confident that we can move to a package in the next few days where there is substantial -- as much as a 100 percent -- debt relief for the poorest countries and that's as a result of Europe coming together..."

Brown was speaking as British Prime Minister Tony Blair was in Washington Tuesday for crucial talks with US President George W. Bush to drum up support to increase aid to Africa.

Debt relief, for which Britain is leading a campaign, is an important component of the EU's efforts to offer aid to developing countries.

^-----(from url)------^

Why? Because a upcoming wave of retiring baby boomers realize how important it may become that the currently suppressed and untapped economic potential of the world (assets, regions, and associated peoples) begin to flourish and offer a contra-cyclical growth spurt when viewing the planet on balance.


TownCrierUS opposes IMF golds sales - Treasury official#13292006/07/05; 09:59:11§ion=investing

WASHINGTON, June 7 (Reuters) - The United States wants the International Monetary Fund to be able to promote strong economic policies in member countries, and repeated it opposes the sale of IMF gold stocks, acting Treasury Undersecretary for International Affairs Randal Quarles said on Tuesday.

"The United States strongly believes that the IMF needs a new tool to provide for structured engagement in support of strong economic policies where there is no need for borrowing," Quarles said in remarks prepared for delivery to a Senate Banking panel.

"We expect that some countries may actively seek to convert their borrowing relationship with the IMF to this basis," he said.

^-----(from url)-----^

U.S. Treasury wants to keep the gold, keep it undervalued, and especially, to keep control of the institution and terms under which international borrowers attain credit (and subsequent obligations).

Interpretation of the middle paragraph is beyond me. 968 or Belgian, can you help with any light on the matter?


Goldilox"Debt Relief" - ROTFL#13292106/07/05; 10:02:17


Your quote,

"Why? Because a upcoming wave of retiring baby boomers realize how important it may become that the currently suppressed and untapped economic potential of the world (assets, regions, and associated peoples) begin to flourish and offer a contra-cyclical growth spurt when viewing the planet on balance."

. . . seems like a nice way of saying "offering financial incentives for the third-world controllers to assist them in keeping their slave labor in line - as we export even more labor class jobs from the US and EU."

What does a successful drug dealer do when his customers exceed their credit line? In the old days, he might have busted some kneecaps, but in the new drug economy, he wipes the slate clean for "good will", fronts them even more product and shortens the leash.

GoldiloxUS - IMF statement#13292206/07/05; 10:10:50

A "street" interpretation of the middle paragraph might read,

"Sell the bunkie to the junkie, and keep the grown for your own!"

or "lend them infinite FIAT, but keep your mitts off the gold!"

Although WE NEVER get to know who the gold customer is, this might be the US gubmint's way of suggesting that they don't approve of this particular one.

China or India, or perhaps a buyer not quite "in the fold"?


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ THE "PRICE of GOLD" GUESSING CONTEST!! $$$$$$$$$$$$

Entries as of 6/7/05 at just about 10:10 Denver time !!!


Listed in order of decreasing values !

$$$$ $440.0 $$$$ Sundeck (06/07/05; 04:18:03MT - msg#: 132912)

$$$$ $432.3 $$$$ Federal_Reserves (6/6/05; 14:22:20MT - msg#: 132894)

$$$$ $428.8 $$$$ Topaz (06/07/05; 00:15:29MT - msg#: 132909)

LOTS of "space" for your Entry !
Just don't forget what the QUESTION is, (like Sir Topaz) !

GoldiloxPersonal Data for 3.9 Million Lost in Transit#13292406/07/05; 10:24:00


In one of the largest breaches of data security to date, CitiFinancial, the consumer finance subsidiary of Citigroup, announced yesterday that a box of computer tapes containing information on 3.9 million customers was lost by United Parcel Service last month, while in transit to a credit reporting agency.

Executives at Citigroup said the tapes were picked up by U.P.S. early in May and had not been seen since.

The tapes contained names, addresses, Social Security numbers, account numbers, payment histories and other details on small personal loans made to millions of customers through CitiFinancial's network of more than 1,800 lending branches, or through retailers whose product financing was handled by CitiFinancial's retail services division.

The company said there was no indication that the tapes had been stolen or that any of the data in them had been compromised.

It was, however, the latest in a series of recent data-security failures involving nearly every kind of institution that compiles personal information - ranging from data brokers like ChoicePoint and LexisNexis to financial institutions like Bank of America and Wachovia to the media giant Time Warner to universities like Boston College and the University of California, Berkeley.

All these institutions have reported data breaches in the last five months, affecting millions of individuals and spurring Congressional hearings and numerous bills aimed at improving security in the handling of sensitive consumer information. The fear is that Social Security numbers, when combined with a consumer's name, address and date of birth, can be used by thieves to open new lines of credit, secure loans and otherwise steal someone's identity.

Whether the recently reported breaches indicate an epidemic of data loss is unclear. Many privacy and security advocates have suggested that a California law, requiring that consumers be notified of data security breaches, has led to more confessions of data losses and increased awareness of a longstanding problem.

"I think what we're seeing is a situation that's been going on for a long time," said Beth Givens, director of the Privacy Rights Clearinghouse, an advocacy group in San Diego, "and one which has only been made visible by California's law."


Dang Consumer Protection laws. They sure make business as usual more complicated! Ever wonder how the email scammers get so much of your info and why there seems to be so many of them?

All this while lobbyists are pushing biometric ID on us. Some form of the RFID bracelets now being tested on probationers will become standard issue in the not too distant future.

"And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark" - Revelations

TownCrierHEADLINE: Gold's rise in euro terms may signal broader rally#13292506/07/05; 13:52:43

NEW YORK, June 7 (Reuters) - Gold prices may be about to benefit from both volatility in and a lack of confidence in several of the world's major currencies, with gold's price in euros a key indicator, analysts said.

Gold, as a classic hedge against global investors' worries about inflation or geopolitical instability, was a beneficiary of the dollar's three-year decline through the end of 2004.

Gold is priced on international bullion markets in dollars, and the precious metal has a tight inverse price correlation with the U.S. currency.

This month, however, gold prices have begun to rebound, even although the dollar has remained strong...

...some analysts are tracking the price of gold in euros as an indicator of demand for hard assets.

"If gold breaks above 350 euros per ounce, that will signify the market is shunning all paper currencies", said Jes Black, hedge fund manager, with Black Flag Capital Partners LLC, Hoboken, New Jersey.

If gold were to rise above that level "what you would see is a mad rush into gold. ... It could very well spark a very large rally in gold," Black said.

Between 350 and 355 euros per ounce, an area touched several times in the last three years, "is a very, very big resistance level," which if broken "would institute a good trading opportunity," said Jordan Kotick, global head of technical analysis with Barclays Capital in New York.


Any sustained rise of gold above 350 euros might be the precursor of gold climbing significantly against the dollar also, especially if $450 is breached, currency analysts say.

"Gold is starting to firm up against all the currencies. Technically, that is looking very good," said one metals broker at a futures commission merchant. "Keep an eye on gold at above 350 in euro terms," he said.

^-----(see url)----^

I posted some commentary about the EUR 350 threshold early in yesterday's forum, and it's nice to see Reuters and the various analysts run with it for a larger readership.

The observations from that 9-month-old 'Golden Chalkboard' on price trends are suddenly in vogue!


USAGOLD Daily Market ReportPage Update!#13292606/07/05; 14:24:11">
The Daily Gold Market Report has been updated.

If you are considering investments in gold we invite you to">request our free introductory information packet detailing the products and services offered by USAGOLD ~ Centennial Precious Metals. We welcome your inquiry and look forward to working with you.

Tuesday Market Excerpts

June 7 (from Reuters) -- Gold futures in New York slipped off a near four-week peak Tuesday as market players took profits after Monday's short-covering rally in precious metals, dealers said.

COMEX August gold futures fell $1.70 to close at $426.70.

"We're in the process of a little consolidation" said James Quinn, commodities commentator at AG Edwards & Sons.

Dealers said gold got support at lower levels, however, from the United States restating its opposition to any proposed sales of International Monetary Fund gold to finance the elimination of Third World debt.

British finance minister Gordon Brown, who has led a proposal to use IMF gold, said Tuesday he was confident of a package with 100 percent debt relief for the world's poorest countries in the next few days.

Some dealers and analysts felt a gold price move to 350 euros per ounce could trigger a rally in the gold market, after the metal recently seemed to be decoupling from the currency.

Gold in euros was trading at about 346 euros.

"If gold breaks above 350 euros perounce, that will signify the market is shunning all paper currencies," said Jes Black, a hedge fund manager with Black Flag Capital Partners LLC in Hoboken, New Jersey.

If gold were to rise above that level, "what you would see is a mad rush into gold. ... It could very well spark a very large rally in gold," Black said.

The dollar lost ground after comments from Federal Reserve chief Alan Greenspan added to uncertainty about the U.S. interest rate outlook.

Greenspan said "new forces" were behind the unusual environment of low global long-term interest rates and that this was unlikely to change soon.

----(see url for full news, 24-hr headlines)----

TownCrierSouth African May reserves surge, dollar purchases up #13292706/07/05; 15:10:54,2106,3306237a6026,00.html

08 June 2005, JOHANNESBURG: South Africa's reserves surged last month as the central bank bought more dollars against a backdrop of calls by the ruling African National Congress and trade unions to weaken the rand to a "competitive" level.

Net gold and foreign exchange reserves surged to $US13.70 billion at the end of May from $US12.54 billion in April, while gross reserves climbed to $US17.19 billion from $US16.04 billion, the Reserve Bank said in a statement on its website yesterday.

The statement did not specifically say the aim was to weaken the rand further, but senior central bank officials, including Governor Tito Mboweni, have voiced concern over the rand's toll on the export-driven mining and manufacturing sectors of the economy.

The African National Congress has said it favours a "competitive exchange rate" and its ally the Congress of South African Trade Unions has threatened strike action to protest against job losses it blames on rand strength.

"I did not expect them [central bank] to be as active in purchasing dollars as they were. If anything, it once gain points to the Reserve Bank not wanting the rand any stronger," said George Glynos, a markets analyst at Econometrix Treasury Management.

The rand was about 3 cents firmer at 6.6750/dollar ... It has depreciated about 15.7 per cent against the dollar so far this year, making a small dent into three years of huge gains. The rand has rallied from a historic low of 13.85/dollar hit late in 2001.

^------(from url)----^

One has to think that BIS's former Banking Dept head, Robert Sleeper, would much rather see them avoiding additional, future exposure to exchange rate risk via the spending of rand on the accumulation of more dollars.

As he previously pointed out in a February 2005 speech to the bank, a regime of mark-to-market gold reserves ought to be considered.

If introduction of rand liquidity (or to curb appreciation) is the underlying objective, such an avenue of buying gold rather than dollars would offer a multiplicity of benefits: additional exposure to inter-country exchange rate risk would be avoided by curtailing accumulation of the dollar stockpile, and a consequential shift to the gold alternative would ultimately help support the demand for and price of this yellow metal which is so important to the South African mining sector.

Could it be stated any simpler?


Belgian@ TC#13292806/07/05; 15:16:46

My Opinion > IMF debt relief : The US wishes those indebted countries (very specific ones) to "democratize" first, and then receive "help" to develop "their" economy.
Others think that democratization is impossible when extreme poverty stays as it is.
This whole (UK) Africa commitment is a giant smokescreen...a political "play" (maneuvering) a flag that doesn't cover the cargo. There is gold and oil in Africa ...and there is Blair, (versus) G. Brown, the UK (in between), the US and Euroland ! A very explosive mixture !
"Confessions of an Economic Hitman" - John Perkings, is very inspiring as a starter to have an idea of what must really be going on.

Democratization ???...Help ???... Their Economy ???...
This is about pure sang power plays (chess), wrapped in a "public" paper.

Follow the gold(and oil)-trail, Randy !

Blair is visiting Bush to collect some (Iraq) dividends whilst Brown stays at home and continues "his" Africa (IMF-gold)story. Strange, no.

We simply think that we do understand the gold and oilprice and how (the mechanism of )these two political tangibles are "priced" ! But is our understanding correct !?
You can certainly imagine that a lot (increasing lot) of political maneuvering is going on, under the surface. There is a currency + energy war going on.

The IMF gold is needed for gold's "pricing" purposes. Same story for oil in the underground of poor indebted countries. The possible (probable) mobilization of IMF gold (and poor countries oil+gold) serves two opposite gold-pricing concepts > The War !

Brown uses the Africa blablayada, the US the democratization yada. What's in a yada ?

€-POG > 350 € - It would surprise me.
W've come to the point where the price of gold is unimportant. The "pricing" of gold will come on the order of the day !!! That's what this IMF-gold (3,000 tonnes) is all about.

Dollar Bill.,.#13292906/07/05; 15:27:00

Hard to figure where the Republicans really stand on the NWO.
On one hand, the Fed, supported by business, are all for the dollar fiat destiny, which is actually, the NWO.
Is George Bush just letting off conservative judicial steam when he appoints Janice Brown ect to the bench?
She articulates the points of those who would not support the NWO. On the link, you will see that view articulated quite well. Not fully, I suppose she doesnt see the currency NWO that we, excuse me, I see. Or, she doesnt elaborate on the extent of it.
George Bush has not given any real signs that I have noticed that he is opposed to the NWO. His father has only given me the idea that he is for it. His father is for state sponsored religious and character education, to create the new global citizen. I am not just making that up. I have read his comments from the eighties.
Anyway, those against the socialist destiny the NWO contains, are those that Ms. Brown speaks to and for.
However, would George Bush appoint one like her to the supreme court? If not, then her appointment is just to placate the anti NWO crowd. But, the supreme court, if that is and remains pro NWO, well, then it is true that the right and the left are walking on the same road, going the same way, just on seemingly different sides of the road so that it appears they are not walking the same way.
Anyway, the link is an education, and I do believe, some of my forum mates will be surprised and pleased.

Belgian@TC#13293006/07/05; 15:27:42

Trichet on China's yuan : " Augment " its <<<- PURCHASING ->>> Power !!!
Think deep, very deep... about WHO said THIS particular basic fundamental !!! And, who's compagny ?

ArcticfoxNorcini/pdg/can"t copy#13293106/07/05; 17:44:32

ArcticfoxTed Butler today..#13293206/07/05; 18:32:28

Ted Butler lays it out for us in his commentary today:

This 30,000-contract increase in the dealer net short position in silver is equal to 150 million ounces. It increases the total dealer net short futures position to more than 350 million ounces. As always, I ask you to put these numbers in perspective. Just the two-week increase in the dealers’ net short position, alone, is greater than all the known silver bullion in the world, making this selling the most naked of short selling. These dealers have real silver backing these short sales like I'm the Easter Bunny.

And all this dealer selling took place on a 60-cent price increase. This is blatant price manipulation. It is not free market behavior. Legitimate sellers should strive to get the highest price possible. Selling short the equivalent of total known world inventories on a smaller than 10% rise in price in less than two weeks, is collusive price control. Period.


mikalBankers need gold SOON#13293306/07/05; 18:45:18

"In addition to these pragmatic goals, the powers of financial capitalism had
another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of
financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of
each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be
controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting
in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent private meetings and
conferences. The apex of the system was to be the Bank for International
Settlements in Basle, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by
the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations."
- Prof. Carroll Quigley (Tragedy & Hope)

"The interests behind the Bush Administration, such as the Council on Foreign Relations, The Trilateral Commission - founded by Brzezinski for David Rockefeller - and the Bilderberger Group, have prepared for and are now moving to implement open world dictatorship within the next five years. They are not fighting against terrorists. They are fighting against citizens."
- Dr. Johannes B. Koeppl, Ph.D., former German defense ministry official and advisor to former NATO Secretary General Manfred Werner (2001)

More scents on the trail pointing to bankers needing
gold sooner rather than later.

2023$$$$$ $418.10 $$$$$$$#13293406/07/05; 22:17:14

My pick is: $$$$$ $418.10 $$$$$$$ on August Comex Contract (GCQ5) on USA Flag Day, Tuesday, June 14, 2005

2023 answers to Sir MK's QUESTIONS:

1) Will the Euro survive the recent French and Dutch votes?

2023: Yes the Euro will survive the recent negative votes. The European powers have control not the voters. The voters have voiced their opinions, many of them were negative, but the EU will continue on and so will the Euro.

2) Do you believe the elections were a positive, negative, or neutral, for GOLD??

2023: I don't think the elections matter to the price of gold. Gold is being accumulated independently of the average European and it does not matter whether they voted 'yes' or 'no'.

3) If you believe it is a positive or a negative, how many $$$'s do you believe will be added or subtracted from the present price of GOLD???, AND
4) Why????

2023: The price of gold ebbs and flows and mostly in an upward trend in US dollars since 2001. The price is independent of what the European voters said or did. I chose US$418.10 as I think the gold price will dip a bit by next Tuesday June 14.

Thanks for letting me play.

PS: I am really looking forward to the price from The Invisible Hand.


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ A "PRICE of GOLD" (POG) GUESSING CONTEST!! $$$$$$$$$$$$

We shall have a price guessing contest on the closing (Settlement price) of gold for the August Comex Contract (GCQ5) on USA Flag Day, Tuesday, June 14, 2005, ---BUT all entries must be posted to the TableRound before Midnight on Sunday, June 12th, AND ALL ENTRIES must answer SIR MK's "QUESTION" !!

The POG Contest winner -- the closest price guess to the actual Settlement Price -- will receive a prize of a Swiss 20 Francs Confederatio goldpiece symbolizing the Swiss confederation of Cantons that eventually became a nation. This beautiful goldpiece has a Fineness of 0.900, and Actual Gold Content of 0.1867 troy ounce and was minted between 1883 and 1896!

(These coins may be seen at the following LINK)
Gold 20 Francs Swiss Confederatio Helvetica

There will be also be two runners-up prizes for the next closest prognostications --- each winning an one ounce pure Silver U.S. Eagle.

The QUESTION -- (Put on your THINKING HATS, as it requires a MULTI-part ANSWER !)

1) Will the Euro survive the recent French and Dutch votes ?
2) Do you believe the elections were a positive, negative, or neutral, for GOLD??
3) If you believe it is a positive or a negative, how many $$$'s do you believe will be added or subtracted from the present price of GOLD???, AND
4) Why????


1) The Winner is the poster with the Price Guess closest to the Settlement price of the COMEX (most active) August 2005 Gold Contract (GCQ5) on the date of Tuesday, June 14, 2005.

2) Price "Guesses" shall be stated in Dollars and tenths !
(Such as $444.4)

3) "Guesses" shall be SHOWN in the SUBJECT BOX location AND enclosed in markers of "Dollar Signs" so as to be OFFICIAL !
(Such as $$$$$ $444.4 $$$$$$$ )

4) ONLY one "Guess" per Knight or Lady is allowed, and once that "Guess" has been "taken" -- no one can duplicate it !! FIRST COME has rights to that "Guess".

5) HOWEVER, All "Guesses" MUST be posted before the clock in Denver strikes MIDNIGHT (24:00) on Sunday, June 12, 2005.

6) AND MOST IMPORTANTLY (as this part MUST accompany the Price prognostication)
--- In order for your entry to be valid, entries will need to have answers to the four part QUESTION, of 30 words, OR MORE. <===== NOTE !!!
LET the CONTEST continue !
"COME ON IN", all you LURKERS !!
Get your posting password from the Town Crier as defined on the top of the Forum page and ENTER to win the "FREE GOLD"!

GoldiloxPhysical Gold Demand Is Outstripping Supply#13293606/08/05; 00:07:55


By Rhona O'Connell

LONDON ( -- Demand for physical gold has been rocketing this year up by more than a quarter in the first three months. That is according to the latest quarterly review of gold supply and demand from the World Gold Council (compiled by GFMS) which reports that gold off take was up by 26% in tonnage terms in the first quarter of this year when compared with demand in the first quarter of 2004. In dollar terms the increase was 32%.

This was driven particularly from the jewelry sector, bar and coin purchase and from investment in gold-backed exchange traded funds, further stimulated by an undercurrent of political and economic unease, which favoured gold investment. This demand absorbed additional supply coming onto the market, especially from increased central bank sales, and sustained dollar prices that were 5% higher than in the first quarter of 2004. With consumers accustomed to the higher price range, dips towards the lower end of the $420-$440 range were seen as buying opportunities and anecdotal reports suggest that buying rose strongly when the price fell towards the lower end of this range.


OvS, Chicken Little's golden egg for today, from a very unexpected secondary source.


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ THE "PRICE of GOLD" GUESSING CONTEST!! $$$$$$$$$$$$

Entries as of 6/8/05 at just about 00:10 Denver time !!!


Listed in order of decreasing values !

$$$$ $440.0 $$$$ Sundeck (06/07/05; 04:18:03MT - msg#: 132912)

$$$$ $432.3 $$$$ Federal_Reserves (6/6/05; 14:22:20MT - msg#: 132894)

$$$$ $428.8 $$$$ Topaz (06/07/05; 00:15:29MT - msg#: 132909)

$$$$ $418.1 $$$$ 2023 (06/07/05; 22:17:14MT - msg#: 132934)

LOTS of "space" for your Entry !
START thinking about the QUESTION.

KnallgoldGold ETF's subcutaneous interwoven in physical demand#13293806/08/05; 00:35:44

"..This was driven particularly from the jewelry sector, bar and coin purchase and from investment in gold-backed exchange traded funds.."

Don't believe in any play devils advocate,what if physical demand is in fact not so high as we always proclaim? it to be?

And what means "higher CB sales",did she mean the 47t ECB sale?

If we are made to believe there is high demand in Gold I smell a rat.

TopazGold demand @ KnarlgGold#13293906/08/05; 02:02:02

We've seen a nice little pop on Comex delivery these last few days plus Lease Rates are on the upswing. Plus Rhonda's tome, Gordy just "Days" away from relieving the the Third World of their debt
Topazoops, sorry Knallgold.#13294006/08/05; 02:08:29

I accidently pressed "enter" whilst trying to re-spell your handle post midstream d-uh!
Anyway, the gist is I think there's plenty of demand right now and ...given the void created by the Swiss tranche finishing ...the market is compoundingly short 60 odd Tons.

ZenideaHeat is work#13294106/08/05; 02:35:51

Well its been awhile since I last frequented these pages of gold, I see the town crier and Gandalf , oh year the new comer of old smeagol ( always liked that namesake )still situate. sped read.
Is Black Blade still hanging around ?.
Done steady on the gold with the currency exchange fluctuations, but did better working it ( fabrication fees .) tottering on leaf profit :) I love heat/ hydrogen I mean no oxidization.
Silver plodded along ( fabrication fee to buy was abit rich ) but it did its duty on maket day.
Platinum I veered from simply because of its high tech /political and heathydrogen cost.
Now Palladium !. check that out on the periodic /volitility table/scale. And if your in Aussie some uranium shares might help melt it on the money transfer.
To paraphrase it , I am saying one cannot sit on either of two road divergeing and if one cannot apply political pressure , apply your own . Now this might sound like alot of gas . but the gas does the work. one just turns the dial up or down. Gooooooo velocity margins .
IF you love Gold for golds sake , it will almost work for one on its own desire. One may just sit and watch.

Zenideanorlisk#13294206/08/05; 02:48:28

whats happening in russia ?
Zhisheng$$$$418.0$$$$#1329436/8/05; 08:09:30

No major currency has ever survived in the long run without significant specie backing. The euro subsequent to the French-Dutch vote is no different in that respect than it was before the vote.

In the short run the price of gold will be hurt because some will use the French-Dutch vote as an excuse to move from Euros to Dollars, which will temporarily decrease the dollar value of gold.

In the long run, it will have the opposite effect, for artificial strength added to the dollar will encourage abuse by those who control the creation of dollars, just as winning a lottery encourages spendthriftyness of the winners.

Not knowing the minds of those who direct the course of financial instruments through leverage (political and financial), I cannot accurately predict how much gold will drop in dollar terms in the short run, but being forced by the rules of this contest to make a guess, I will say down to $410.

GoldiloxConsumer spending dip raises RBS provisions#1329446/8/05; 09:09:21


Royal Bank of Scotland, the UK's second largest bank, warned of a deterioration in consumer lending on Wednesday but said this would be offset by the strong growth in corporate and mortgage lending.

RBS, which also owns Natwest and Ulster Bank in the UK, and Citizens in the US, provided more evidence that the UK consumer is feeling the pinch from recent interest rate rises, saying total provisions for bad debt would be higher this year than last year, but added the increase was manageable.

The comments follow similar statements from rivals HSBC, Barclays and HBOS which have all warned of rising levels of provisions in the UK market. The rise in provisions would slow the growth of the bank's UK consumer business which accounts for about 10 per cent of group profits, RBS said.


I wonder whose gold Mr. Brown wants to sell to relieve first-world debt?

GoldiloxAustralia drought could push up grain prices#1329456/8/05; 09:15:01


By Virginia Marsh in Sydney
Published: June 7 2005 19:06 | Last updated: June 7 2005 19:06

A worsening drought has forced Australia, the world's second-largest exporter of wheat, to slash its crop forecast for this year by 29 per cent, an outcome that could put pressure on global grain prices.

The Australian Bureau of Agricultural and Resource Economics (Abare), the government forecasting agency, said it now expected a wheat crop of 16m tonnes, down from 20.4m tonnes in its March forecast, and 21 per cent below last year's 20m tonnes, itself only a moderate crop by Australian standards.

While the agency had been widely expected to cut its forecast, the reduction was greater than many traders had anticipated – although the ministry of agriculture warned that Abare's overall winter crop predictions could still prove optimistic.

The agency also cut its expectations for the total winter crop – of which wheat is by far the most important – to 26.1m tonnes, down 17 per cent on last year.

New South Wales is set to be by far the hardest-hit state, with production down 55 per cent at about 4m tonnes, followed by Queensland with a 27 per cent fall. Abare added that the situation would be much worse were it not for good conditions in Western Australia which, in contrast, is tipped to increase its winter crop by 16 per cent this year.

"This grim forecast could turn out to be optimistic without rain almost immediately and at regular intervals throughout the balance of the season," said Warren Truss, agriculture minister. "Good yields in Western Australia will be necessary to allow us to maintain our presence in core export markets. Grain prices have risen substantially over recent weeks and those price rises will continue unless the season breaks."


Gee, where are the weather manipuators when you need one? Triggers like this can do no good for "financial stability".

GoldiloxBush Aide Softened Greenhouse Gas Links to Global Warming#1329466/8/05; 09:35:36


A White House official who once led the oil industry's fight against limits on greenhouse gases has repeatedly edited government climate reports in ways that play down links between such emissions and global warming, according to internal documents.

In handwritten notes on drafts of several reports issued in 2002 and 2003, the official, Philip A. Cooney, removed or adjusted descriptions of climate research that government scientists and their supervisors, including some senior Bush administration officials, had already approved. In many cases, the changes appeared in the final reports.

The dozens of changes, while sometimes as subtle as the insertion of the phrase "significant and fundamental" before the word "uncertainties," tend to produce an air of doubt about findings that most climate experts say are robust.

Mr. Cooney is chief of staff for the White House Council on Environmental Quality, the office that helps devise and promote administration policies on environmental issues.

Before going to the White House in 2001, he was the "climate team leader" and a lobbyist at the American Petroleum Institute, the largest trade group representing the interests of the oil industry. A lawyer with a bachelor's degree in economics, he has no scientific training.

The documents were obtained by The New York Times from the Government Accountability Project, a nonprofit legal-assistance group for government whistle-blowers.

The project is representing Rick S. Piltz, who resigned in March as a senior associate in the office that coordinates government climate research. That office, now called the Climate Change Science Program, issued the documents that Mr. Cooney edited.

A White House spokeswoman, Michele St. Martin, said yesterday that Mr. Cooney would not be available to comment. "We don't put Phil Cooney on the record," Ms. St. Martin said. "He's not a cleared spokesman."


No meteorology training, but of course, as a white house lawyer, he knows how to "talk the talk".

In his recent talks, Bill Moyers has suggested that the "Elmer Gantrys" of the Republican religious right have convinced enough of their followers that
"Rapture is right around the corner", so resource stewardship is moot. No wonder the Bible describes the final days of civilization arriving "as a thief in the night", but reminds us that "no man knows the day or the hour" to help us judge wisely the words of "modern prophets".

USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.A 'once-in-a-decade' investment opportunity!#1329476/8/05; 09:53:07

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see url for charts and details

geCurse Of The Magazine Covers - US Housing#1329486/8/05; 10:50:27


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GoldiloxDX explosion#1329506/8/05; 11:48:57

Right at the COMEX close, the DX jumped up 50 basis points. WOW!
nugget101$$$$ 423.35 $$$$#1329516/8/05; 12:46:23

While the French and Dutch votes are a serious impediment to the disintegration of the sovereignty of the European nations, it will have no long-term effect on the euro. All the member nations have invested considerable political, emotional and monetary capital in a united currency to provide an alternative to the US dollar monopoly. They (the globalist elites) want to bring down the dollar and make the euro the premier currency. (Unfortunately, they will eventually have to contend with the yuan.) Enventually, the price of gold will rise (in dollars) because the dollar will continue to fall in the long-term but this is not related to the EU vote and any subsequent votes, pro or con, will have no long-term effect on the continued rise of the euro and the fall of the dollar.
osa104cwinning S.W.A.G. #1329526/8/05; 13:20:05


#1.yes..redefined #2 the mOOn ALICE...old world monetary practices.....can't escape the truth....worth your weight???..salts not precious

USAGOLD Daily Market ReportPage Update!#1329536/8/05; 14:42:23">
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Wednesday Market Excerpts

June 8 (from MarketWatch) -- Trading in metals futures ended as it began Wednesday with little price change, as traders look to Friday's U.S. trade data for signals on the direction of the dollar.

With little economic data until later this week, the market remained flat. Gold for August delivery, which hit an intraday high of $428.70, ended lower for a second day at $426.60, down 10 cents.

"It would not be surprising in the near term to see prices gyrate between consumer hand-to-mouth buying into price weakness and producer short selling into strength. Overall, however, a downward bias is favored," said William Adams, an analyst at

But Peter Grandich, strategist at The Grandich Letter, said he expects the market to rally over time, forecasting that gold will trade as high as $450 in the summer and within the range of $410 to $430 before then.

"What will take it higher is that the physical demand remains so strong and besides, the U.S. dollar rally is just a bear market rally," he said.

The World Gold Council said last week that world gold demand rose 26% in the first quarter of 2005.

TownCrierGrowth slows, inflation grows -- Stocks sag as White House economic news casts shadow#1329546/8/05; 15:02:41

(AP) NEW YORK — Stocks slumped Wednesday as the Bush administration said the nation's economy would likely grow at a slower pace than forecast six months ago, an assessment that eclipsed positive corporate news and lower oil prices.

The White House expects the economy to continue growing at a 3.4 percent rate, a fraction less than the 3.5 percent pace predicted in December.

In addition, rising energy prices prompted the administration to increase its inflation forecast for the year.

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TopazDX/Gold#13295506/08/05; 16:01:08

Faced with a chicken-little potential 5th wave down to 85, the Chicken-bigs ratcheted up today ...not high enough to create havoc in the Hen-house though ...if however this Yield reversal gets legs we may be in for a REAL scramble!

Anyone who doubts Golds role in all this has only to defect to the neighbouring Castle for a peek at live Spot. These last few weeks, the ONLY time it rests is the half-hour Comex close-access open.

Gandalf the WhiteTHANKS, osa104c ---- BUT, -------#13295606/08/05; 16:51:35

osa104c (6/8/05; 13:20:05MT - msg#: 132952)
you OWE me a number of ADDITIONAL words ! <;-)
Continued POSTING at this TABLEROUND will satisfy this DEBT.

CoBra(too)FED Acting Shady ....#13295706/08/05; 17:19:51

Says Alex Wallenwein on Free Market News ...

While the traditional buyers Japan,China and the rest of SE-Asia have either taken a sabbitical in their quest to take up more of the Tsy debt the US issues, or plainly are already on the verge of indigestion - new takers had to be found.

Alex felt kind'a tickled by the idea of Carribean Banking Centers to take up the slack in view of the financial and econonomic state the US is in; With the US twin deficits already "consuming" probably the rest of the globe's savings - The only capital available for real capital expenditure.

It does feel kind of odd that the shortfall in TSY financing was so willingly made up by these Isles. Well let's call it by its real name - Monetization by FED and TSY - as it has already run out of real supporters, which BTW can't afford it any longer either.

Personally, I guess the EU constitution debacle is kind of a prolongation to the Dollar game - though neither currency can be happily appreciate, nor depreciate at these rates much longer.

As Al Einstein said - It's all relative; And so's the floating currency structure, based on relative and now even on hedonic performance on their respective economies.

Al G. Says - probably tomorrow, that the conundrum of l.t. rates meeting s.t. rates only proves the productivy advances of hi tech - vs food & energy, which we'll now use for aiding the most indebted countries, since we seemingly have no use for 'em in the US - at least in the CPI ... And oh, do you know any more indebted countries than the US?

... cb2

PS: Gold should now be starting advancing (against) vis a vis all currencies ...

The Invisible HandAlgee vs.the dollar#13295806/08/05; 17:47:36

Algee said yesterday that China should let the yuan float freely.
If China does do that, it will need to buy less greenbacks.
Conclusion: dollar kaput, gold and euro soar.
Methinks Algee very good man. Algee working against the dollar.

From the link:
US Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan has added his weight to calls for China to allow the yuan to trade freely against other currencies.
Mr Greenspan also drew attention to the fact that to maintain the yuan's fixed level against the dollar, Beijing has to buy large quantities of the US currency, something he said "cannot go on indefinitely".

DryWasher$$$$$ $425.0 $$$$$$$#13295906/08/05; 18:17:47

1) Will the Euro survive the recent French and Dutch votes ?

Answer: YES. The "NO" vote will have an impact on the way the EU will evolve, but in my opinion it does not threaten the Euro currency, which we must remember is already a success.

2) Do you believe the elections were a positive, negative, or neutral, for GOLD??

Answer: Neutral: Over the long term these election results, like most other election results, will have little or no affect on the true value of GOLD, which is one of the main reasons we all invest in GOLD. That is not to say that the true value of the Euro and/or of the Dollar will not be affected.


Ned@ Cobra(too)#13296006/08/05; 18:24:50

May I ask where this Alex Wallenwein article is to be found?

Thank you.

The Invisible HandWallenwein article#13296106/08/05; 19:24:39

The link carries the June 06 article "All that Euro-Hullabaloo" by Alex Wallenwein.
direct link at K

CoBra(too) says
Alex felt kind'a tickled by the idea of Carribean Banking Centers to take up the slack in view of the financial and econonomic state the US is in; With the US twin deficits already "consuming" probably the rest of the globe's savings - The only capital available for real capital expenditure

If foreign countries' investors aren't buying US assets and debt any longer to equalize the current account deficit (and we now know they don't, except maybe for the Fed-financed Caribbean hedge funds), then what does that mean for the dollar?

Maybe this is the article.

djac$$$$$481.0$$$$#13296206/08/05; 20:32:34

my current view as of a state of mind.

As thr Euro seems just another unit of account pushing ahead a mountain of debt (in hilarious numbers), not giving any value to the achievements of society, it might just be a question of definition if it's dismise will be traced back to the sprinkling of the F/NL votes.

As for all practical purposes gold will not loose it's symbolic power on the perception of individuals, every event that impacts the conciousness of individuals ability is to be considered positive for gold. (as opposed to 911)

As for the relation $-gold, me hopes to get to a point where people refuse to compare a failed unit of account to gold.

Why? Well, imho, like a coin beeing flipped in the air, it is not cwertain if it will land on it's face or on it's backside. This is the game being played, turn and twist the interpretation of events without revealing the real intents, simply by not taking position. We have to wait for the coin to come to rest.

This is as close as i can get to answering your questions.
thank you for reading

commish$$$430.10$$$#13296306/08/05; 20:47:37

Hope I get this right. Three questions. Well the Euro will change in value. Remember this Middle East War started because the 'Bandit of Bagdad' wanted to sell his oil for Euros not Dollars. Now the word's out that the sheik's want real money for their product (and I'm not taking about paper with dead presidents on them). The value of Gold will increase in value period. As a side note did watch "Oil Strom" on FX. It seemed very real to me. Today had a cheeseberg, french fries and a Coke. Cost $7.58 at a local dinner. Easily $1.75 more than I paid last year at this time.
GoldiloxInflation watch#13296406/08/05; 20:59:36


ditto - fish and chips with a soft drink - $10.29

My favorite morning spot just raised their bagel and coffee special from $2.50 to $3.00.

The higher fuel prices are working their way into the retail chains.

GoldiloxWed Market Wrap - Jim Willie CB#13296506/08/05; 21:14:45


Gold will absolutely love the changes, whether orderly or disruptive. The change will permit higher Asian import prices, greater pricing power, puffed profit margins, and likely even a wave of hiring or at least wage gains. The loser might be US Treasury Bonds, since consumer prices will show up as on the rise, led by import prices. Could we be seeing an engineered USTBond rally as a preface for exactly this development? Methinks YES. These and many other related topics and difficult issues are discussed in detail in my HAT TRICK LETTER. The outcome is unclear, but the changes are certain. The rays of hope for the gold community are wrapped tight around the Asian currency becoming released and unlocked. The golden race car requires a shift into the next FOREX gear for renewed acceleration of a higher quality price inflation. Gold demands it, and will almost certainly see it, regardless of how the process begins. The important requirement is that it begin. Depending upon the level of cooperation, maturity, and wisdom, order will rise or fall, be maintained or deteriorate. Get me my ringside seat.

Gandalf the WhiteSir Nugget -- The Hobbits thank you for the nickel !#13296606/08/05; 21:20:51

nugget101 (6/8/05; 12:46:23MT - msg#: 132951)

Gandalf the WhiteTA TA TAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA --POG Contest UPDATE !#13296706/08/05; 21:30:15

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ THE "PRICE of GOLD" GUESSING CONTEST!! $$$$$$$$$$$$

Entries as of 6/8/05 at just about 21:21 Denver time !!!


Listed in order of decreasing values !

$$$$ $481.0 $$$$ djac (06/08/05; 20:32:34MT - msg#: 132962)

$$$$ $440.0 $$$$ Sundeck (06/07/05; 04:18:03MT - msg#: 132912)

$$$$ $432.9 $$$$ osa104c (6/8/05; 13:20:05MT - msg#: 132952)

$$$$ $432.3 $$$$ Federal_Reserves (6/6/05; 14:22:20MT - msg#: 132894)

$$$$ $430.1 $$$$ commish (06/08/05; 20:47:37MT - msg#: 132963)

$$$$ $428.8 $$$$ Topaz (06/07/05; 00:15:29MT - msg#: 132909)

$$$$ $425.0 $$$$ DryWasher (06/08/05; 18:17:47MT - msg#: 132959)

$$$$ $423.3 $$$$ nugget101 (6/8/05; 12:46:23MT - msg#: 132951)

$$$$ $418.1 $$$$ 2023 (06/07/05; 22:17:14MT - msg#: 132934)
$$$$ $418.0 $$$$ Zhisheng (6/8/05; 08:09:30MT - msg#: 132943)

Liberty Head****$432.4*****#1329686/8/05; 23:23:37

The Euro is but one government expansion scheme in a never ending succession of government expansion schemes.
Since few folks seem to be any more wise about free-markets, government expansion will continue with or without the Euro. There has been no mass awakening. The effect on the POG should be mild.

Best Wishes

Liberty Head****$432.4*****#1329696/8/05; 23:23:45

The Euro is but one government expansion scheme in a never ending succession of government expansion schemes.
Since few folks seem to be any more wise about free-markets, government expansion will continue with or without the Euro. There has been no mass awakening. The effect on the POG should be mild.

Best Wishes

GoldiloxContest Entry#1329706/9/05; 00:19:32

**** $434.0****

Not only will the euro "survive" the recent "no" votes from France and the Netherlands, but those electorates delivered just what the Euro-bloc manufacturers wanted: price relief in the international marketplace. Unimpeded upward movement of their currency was squeezing Euro-land producers at a time when entitlements and rising costs were rendering them noncompetitive.

I believe that the elections were positive for gold, as the Euro alternative has been unmasked as "just another FIAT" to serious value investors. Gold may just use this opportunity to de-couple from all paper currencies and define its value independently and internationally.

The upward changes in gold value will be determined by the overall trend in commodities, as we watch the "number" of US$ required to accumulate them. Gold currently has an opportunity to redefine the value baselines for all commodities, but I will trust the analysts who have suggested $480/oz before year end.

As investors reassess the risk in the various FIAT schemes, gold will regain a prominence as the most trusted store of monetary value.

GoldiloxO'Donnell - FSO#1329716/9/05; 00:34:42


Last Take: I've stumbled on to Jim Cramer's Mad Money show several times now. It's the most embarrassing spectacle I've ever seen in the financial news space and a hamster with its random droppings on the stock pages lining its cage would have a better chance of picking a winner than this ode to obsessive compulsive silliness.


ROTFL - I just could not pass on this one! The article is good, too.

I've never trusted Cramer, as he was one of the most vocal pump 'n' dumpers of the Internet craze. If you read his own analysts, they normally contradict him by about 180 degrees.

Bizarro-GreenspanEuro 350,ORO's "Line in the Sand",Feb.6/03#1329726/9/05; 01:27:28

"In this weekend's report we did a special study of gold priced in euros to show that it was nearing a major six-year turn cycle top.

Only a move above 350 euros per ounce (top chart) would indicate that the markets were shunning all fiat money and turning to gold as either an inflation hedge or safe haven play.
With interest rates adjusted for inflation at all time lows (also shown in our weekly letter) and with a very clear cyclical top in gold priced in euros (blue lines), we tend to think that gold is going to peak here in the coming weeks.

Note that previous instances of gold topping at 350 euros per ounce lined up nicely with major tops in the dollar price of gold as well, whereas the implication for the euro is not well defined.

As such, traders may look to short gold here (and buy euros if you want to short the euro price of gold) with risk limited to above the $438 highs we discussed in the weekly letter as that would necessitate a move back above trendline support turned resistance (orange line middle chart) and the previous high which is bullish."


Jack of all trades,master of none,as some folks like to say.

Bizarro-GreenspanORO,06/13/01#1329736/9/05; 01:43:24

"FOA, I tell you that the EU plan as you and Another present it is beyond flawed, it is laughable. It is a repeat of the great political errors following WWI when all governments, particularly the US, had joined with some of their leading industrialists in an attempt to capture all that they can within their jurisdictions, to the detriment of the whole of society all around the globe. Tariffs were laid in order to prevent competition from foreign businesses leading to a loss of business incomes accessible to governments. Capital controls and "floating" national currencies were instituted to keep people from moving themselves and anything of value ouside the reach of the government (a.k.a. "grab it"). The world has been moving away from this for 30 years, since the time the strategies and deals Another listed, from the 1969 statements to the Infamous Declaration ("Solemn" in the European bureaucratese dialectic) and the signing of the articles of self enslavement in Nice this June. It is the momentum of a political past long gone when governments had actual economic power and were not subject to market moves to counter them. That day is gone, and governments have no protection against the disasterous results of their economic policies (remember that a government policy is central planning, and central planning turns profit into loss and perverts motives into self destruction of organizations).

Today, the cyberworld allows us to contract anywhere we want under the law of any jurisdiction we want, and countries that do not respect such contracts lose business, including their domestic business, and then their people.

The old political and commercial famillies of Europe seem to have learned nothing from their disasterous errors of a century ago, of 75 years ago, of 55 years ago, of 25 years ago, and the hare brained schemes of today. This time, their attempt at total control will land them permanently outside power. The 5%-15% of the population that makes a difference in the economic well being of countries will simply be lost to them forever.

This euro dog don't hunt. The hunters will have to shoot it."

Bizarro-GreenspanPeter Warburton,excerpt from "Debt and Delusion"#1329746/9/05; 02:19:27

"A long standing structural weakness of the EMU is the absense of a federal authority with independent tax raising powers.In the US system,federal SS and health programmes provide 40 cents of every dollar of state income lost.The EU's budget,which is financed by a fixed proportion of value added tax from member states,is absorbed primarily by agricultural subsidies,the Brussels bureaucracy and investment grants.There is very little capacity to offer emergency financial aid to a region suffering from natural peril or civil unrest,much less economic mismanagement.The inadvisabilty of building monetary union without first achieving full political union strongly suggests that a succesfull EMU is synonymous with the latter."

And then there were two.

DruidThe US and that 'other' axis#1329756/9/05; 04:16:30


"Beijing's increasingly close ties with Moscow and Tehran will thwart Washington's foreign policy goal of expanding US security footholds in the Middle East, Central Asia and Asia. However, the primacy of economic stability will most likely prevent a proxy-style military confrontation, in Iran or North Korea, between China and the US.

Threat to 'axis of evil' unwinds in Baghdad
In January 2002 during his State of the Union address to the US congress, President George W Bush outlined his administration's primary foreign policy goal as preventing "regimes that sponsor terror from threatening America or our friends and allies with weapons of mass destruction". Bush went on to specifically name Iraq, Iran and North Korea as state sponsors of terrorism, infamously dubbing this group the "axis of evil". After failing to gather multilateral support in the United Nation, Bush declared war on Iraq.

Since the beginning of the war in Iraq, Beijing has worked feverishly to strengthen its ties with Moscow and Teheran in an apparent effort to prevent US military action against the remaining "axis of evil" members, Iran and North Korea. In addition to recent massive energy deals with Teheran, which place Iran in China's security web, both Beijing and Moscow have accelerated the transfer of missile technology to Teheran, while selling the Islamic republic increasingly sophisticated military equipment.

Armed with a vast array of anti-ship and long-range missiles, Iran can target US troop positions throughout the Middle East and strike US Navy ships. Iran can also use its weapons to blockade the Straits of Hormuz through which one-third of the world's traded oil is shipped. With the help of Beijing and Moscow, Teheran is becoming an increasingly unappealing military target for the US.

As in the Middle East, the China-Iran-Russia axis is challenging US interests in Central Asia. Washington is working feverishly to gain security footholds in Tajikistan and Kazakhstan to complement existing US military bases in Afghanistan, Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan. China and Russia are working equally hard to assert their influence in Central Asia. A good portion of this work is being done under the auspices of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO.)

Composed of China, Russia, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan, the SCO was created in 1996 and reborn in 2001 when it was bolstered to counter the initial eastward expansion of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. The SCO is becoming an increasingly powerful regional mutual security organization. Joint military maneuvers between SCO member states began in 2003. In 2004, the SCO created a rapid reaction anti-terror strike force. According to Igor Rogachev, Russia's ambassador to China, the new force is designed to combat and respond to terrorist attacks in any SCO member nation."

Druid: An excellent read describing how "Political Will", at this point in time, is trumping economic well being hands down.

Topaz@B-G.#1329766/9/05; 04:46:55

Welcome Squire ...nice of you to pop in.
There clearly is a "timeline" issue with 'ol Buck and TPTB (in their wisdom?) envision a transition to "more-of-the-same" ie: fractional reserve Fiat based System ...'cos it works! ...with (it is assumed) the difference this time around that Gold be, in all respects, "outstanding".

With all the noise about US pension funding and moves to dis-associate Corporate America from same, is it not plausable, in fact obvious that such a Systemic re-hash is a more equitable solution, as both Gov't and Corp (looking forward) become less and less able to cope in their current role(s) as placater?

GoldiloxBarrick sees end of $- gold coupling#1329776/9/05; 05:20:46


NEW YORK (Reuters) - Gold's lengthy coupling to the dollar will end as supply/demand dynamics change and other currencies may come to the fore, Barrick Gold Corp. (ABX.TO: Quote, Profile, Research) CEO Greg Wilkins said at the Reuters Mining Summit on Wednesday.
"There will be a decoupling in the next 5 to 10 years," said Wilkins at the summit, held at the Reuters office in New York.

Gold is priced in dollars on international bullion markets, and the precious metal has a tight inverse price correlation with the U.S. currency, he said.

The head of the world's third largest gold producer said the shift in the way gold was linked to the dollar was likely to be brought about by a number of factors like fundamental issues of production and consumption and the growth of interest from investors.

Clink!Could this have been an entry in the contest ?#1329786/9/05; 08:47:42

Not really, I suppose, but it confirms my thesis that it is worth reading the comics every morning for their (ahem) educational content. (Note: this updates daily so if you don't go there today, look for the May 26 cartoon)


USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.United States $10 Liberties -- nearly sold out#1329796/9/05; 08:55:34

Yesterday, during its first day of offer, over three-fourths of the allotment of these coins available for our June Buyers' Group has already been sold through!

Don't miss out on this great value. Click or call today!

1-800-869-5115 Extention 100

CoBra(too)Thanks TIH#1329806/9/05; 09:49:34

... and yes that's the broadcast.

Can u say monetization?

Best cb2

GoldiloxRon Paul asks Sir AG#1329816/9/05; 10:13:18

on CNBC now. My paraphrase:

1) Is high POO really political, or just old-fashioned economics.
2) Isn't there plenty of evidence of inflation "finding" its bubbles in housing, medical and energy, and isn't it a result of easy money policy?

KnallgoldFreegold would be good start#1329826/9/05; 11:14:01

I might rant Another day about the diletantic,arrogant and incompetent EU bureaucrats...conclusion:

-the leaders,in EU and US'should go back to sanity,moral principles and common sense-who knows,we might follow them???

-can't we have FreeGold without a EU constitution?Who ever said this to be a prerequisite?Free of derivatives'simple physical Gold trading between individuals wanting to preserve their wealth,without much gov./banking int. interference-damned,the whole world population would accept it!

USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.June Buyer's Group -- $10 Liberties#1329836/9/05; 13:03:42

Thanks for your participation in this month's special. You certainly know a fantastic deal when it comes your way -- this allotment SOLD OUT in under two business days. Congrats to all who acted early to stake out their claim.

Please call to inquire about our great pricing on other gold coins and bullion. We'd be happy to discuss the diversification strategy that's right for you!

1-800-869-5115 (Extension 100)

The call is FREE!

USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.Serving the gold investment community reliably -- since 1973 !!#1329846/9/05; 13:24:03

TopazThis Tenuous Toehold...#1329856/9/05; 14:43:35

...we appear to have on 88 does not bode well for the alt-Currencies going forward.
Given the jittery Bond market, and historic reference, if Yields start to ratchet up they'll take 'olBuck with them.

The GOOD news is that Gold is continuing to de-couple.

Bring it on!

TownCrierGreenspan says "gun shy" on inducing private savings#1329866/9/05; 14:49:35

WASHINGTON, June 9 (Reuters) - Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan said on Thursday he was reluctant to push new investment vehicles aimed at inducing Americans to raise their savings levels because these measures had a poor record.

"I'm a little gun shy on the issue of inducing savings in this country because I have seen just too many vehicles promising to do something important and ... we've ended up with a very low savings rate," Greenspan told the congressional Joint Economic Committee.

^-----(from url)-----^

Nix the fancy programs. Savings should be accomplished the good "ol' fashioned" way... just add another bit to your growing pile of GOLD, and it'll be there when you need it.


TownCrierNewmont sees $525 gold by January#1329876/9/05; 14:55:31

NEW YORK, June 9 (Reuters) - The price of gold should rise to $525 an ounce by the start of 2006, a top executive of gold giant Newmont Mining Corp. said on Thursday.

Pierre Lassonde, president of the world's largest gold mining company, cited an expected decline in the U.S. dollar by another 15 percent against a basket of currencies, world economic growth strong enough to keep physical demand buoyant and a continuing gradual decline in gold output. ... which should hoist gold out of a current "$400 to $475 range."

"The physical market is very strong at these prices. There is enormous demand," Lassonde said.

Investors are buying gold as well, in favor over the euro and the dollar, he added, with bullion making its way into vaults in Switzerland and heading into the Middle East, India, China and Turkey.

"Those are the big markets right now," said Lassonde.
"When you add it up, we think you can see gold at $525 by Jan '06," he said to reporters at Reuters offices in New York.

^---(see url to read full article)----^

Buy now while your dollars are strong and as gold remains cheaply off the radar screens of all of your neighbors and cousins.

Call USAGOLD-Centennial and "stake your claim" today!


USAGOLD Daily Market ReportPage Update!#1329886/9/05; 15:41:31">
The Daily Gold Market Report has been updated.

If you are considering investments in gold we invite you to">request our free introductory information packet detailing the products and services offered by USAGOLD ~ Centennial Precious Metals. We welcome your inquiry and look forward to working with you.

Thursday Market Excerpts

June 9 (from Reuters) -- COMEX August gold futures slid 50 cents to end at $426.10 after trading between $427.10 and $423.

George Gero, a director at the International Precious Metals Institute and senior VP at Legg Mason Wood Walker, said the whole precious complex "saw a setback because of the stronger dollar."

Gold lost ground as the dollar climbed after Greenspan said the U.S. economy is on a firm footing andinterest rates can be raised more at a measured pace.

Higher crude oil prices, which usually prompt investors to buy gold as an inflation hedge, did not boost the metal on Thursday because of weakness in silver and a firm dollar.

"Normally this sort of a rally in crude will bring buyers back into the metals in the next couple of days on a catch-up basis," Gero said.

U.S. light crude rose $1.76 to $54.30 per barrel.

------(see url for full news, 24-hr headlines, market quotes)---


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ UPDATE on THE "PRICE of GOLD" GUESSING CONTEST!! $$$$$$$$$$$$

Entries as of 6/9/05 at just about 17:10 Denver time !!!


Listed in order of decreasing values !

$$$$ $481.0 $$$$ djac (06/08/05; 20:32:34MT - msg#: 132962)

$$$$ $440.0 $$$$ Sundeck (06/07/05; 04:18:03MT - msg#: 132912)

$$$$ $434.0 $$$$ Goldilox (6/9/05; 00:19:32MT - msg#: 132970)

$$$$ $432.9 $$$$ osa104c (6/8/05; 13:20:05MT - msg#: 132952)

$$$$ $432.4 $$$$ Liberty Head (6/8/05; 23:23:45MT - msg#: 132969)
$$$$ $432.3 $$$$ Federal_Reserves (6/6/05; 14:22:20MT - msg#: 132894)

$$$$ $430.1 $$$$ commish (06/08/05; 20:47:37MT - msg#: 132963)

$$$$ $428.8 $$$$ Topaz (06/07/05; 00:15:29MT - msg#: 132909)

$$$$ $425.0 $$$$ DryWasher (06/08/05; 18:17:47MT - msg#: 132959)

$$$$ $423.3 $$$$ nugget101 (6/8/05; 12:46:23MT - msg#: 132951)

$$$$ $418.1 $$$$ 2023 (06/07/05; 22:17:14MT - msg#: 132934)
$$$$ $418.0 $$$$ Zhisheng (6/8/05; 08:09:30MT - msg#: 132943)



$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ A "PRICE of GOLD" (POG) GUESSING CONTEST!! $$$$$$$$$$$$

We shall have a price guessing contest on the closing (Settlement price) of gold for the August Comex Contract (GCQ5) on USA Flag Day, Tuesday, June 14, 2005, ---BUT all entries must be posted to the TableRound before Midnight on Sunday, June 12th, AND ALL ENTRIES must answer SIR MK's "QUESTION" !!

The POG Contest winner -- the closest price guess to the actual Settlement Price -- will receive a prize of a Swiss 20 Francs Confederatio goldpiece symbolizing the Swiss confederation of Cantons that eventually became a nation. This beautiful goldpiece has a Fineness of 0.900, and Actual Gold Content of 0.1867 troy ounce and was minted between 1883 and 1896!

(These coins may be seen at the following LINK)
Gold 20 Francs Swiss Confederatio Helvetica

There will be also be two runners-up prizes for the next closest prognostications --- each winning an one ounce pure Silver U.S. Eagle.

The QUESTION -- (Put on your THINKING HATS, as it requires a MULTI-part ANSWER !)

1) Will the Euro survive the recent French and Dutch votes ?
2) Do you believe the elections were a positive, negative, or neutral, for GOLD??
3) If you believe it is a positive or a negative, how many $$$'s do you believe will be added or subtracted from the present price of GOLD???, AND
4) Why????


1) The Winner is the poster with the Price Guess closest to the Settlement price of the COMEX (most active) August 2005 Gold Contract (GCQ5) on the date of Tuesday, June 14, 2005.

2) Price "Guesses" shall be stated in Dollars and tenths !
(Such as $444.4)

3) "Guesses" shall be SHOWN in the SUBJECT BOX location AND enclosed in markers of "Dollar Signs" so as to be OFFICIAL !
(Such as $$$$$ $444.4 $$$$$$$ )

4) ONLY one "Guess" per Knight or Lady is allowed, and once that "Guess" has been "taken" -- no one can duplicate it !! FIRST COME has rights to that "Guess".

5) HOWEVER, All "Guesses" MUST be posted before the clock in Denver strikes MIDNIGHT (24:00) on Sunday, June 12, 2005.

6) AND MOST IMPORTANTLY (as this part MUST accompany the Price prognostication)
--- In order for your entry to be valid, entries will need to have answers to the four part QUESTION, of 30 words, OR MORE. <===== NOTE !!!
LET the CONTEST continue !
Entries should "POUR IN" after the COMEX close tomorrow.
Don't miss your chance to claim your LUCKY number !

GoldiloxHow Gold Re-enters the US Dollar Equation#1329916/9/05; 22:03:54


1. The dollar again enters a full blown bear market as a product of its deteriorating internal fundamentals.
2. The march into the new system of Authoritarian Free Enterprise continues as a result of all the measures being adopted and reinforced to combat terrorism – perceived or otherwise.
3. There comes a point in the dollar decline that the public will support draconian measures as they are reassured by eminent authority and political consensus that this is the correct system fix.
4. At this point, major wealth reassumes a long dollar position.
5. There are two key items in the draconian plans, the first of which is the significant reduction of Federal entitlement spending for the common benefit of all. This is intended to stabilize the US Federal Budget deficits and save the dollar, thereby creating jobs and improving the US and global economic system. That is the spin. Authoritarian Free Enterprise favors the authority of commerce and not the common good. This is when policy changes will occur, the deficits will come into balance and the US dollar will enter a bullish period.
6. In the second move, gold enters the picture. Gold convertibility is not what will occur and the Gold Community will not be pleased by the role gold will play. Gold is coming back into the system not at the pleasure of present gold advocates but at the pleasure of the masters of the global economy.

Gold will function as a control item for the US dollar. Convertibility is simply too automatic and too cumbersome for the barons of commerce. Gold's role, however, as a barometer and control item will be seized in the form of a modernized, revitalized Federal Reserve Gold Certificate Ratio.

Gold will be tied to levels of international dollar liquidity measured by the outstanding US debt in the hands of non-US entities. This is another view of the cumulative affect of the US Current Account.

Assuming the unfortunate event that the price of gold closes any day at the end of the open outcry session of the COMEX (simply as a point of measure) 3% above the $518 - $529 price level it can be considered having moved out of a normal bull market into a run away market. That run away situation would be the signal that gold has assumed its traditional role in attempting to balance the international balance sheet of the USA.

That is another way to say that the value of the gold held by the US Treasury would be at a market price that would when computed be equal to the amount of US Treasuries held by non-US entities calculated at par or 100 cents to the dollar issue price. That situation would be the balanced position of assets versus liabilities for the US dollar internationally.

That price then is recognized internationally by central banks and all gold is revalued on their respective balance sheets to this market price. By this means, the US Current Account now becomes the means by which the US Treasury must increase their gold position if the price of gold times the gold held by the US Treasury (Gold Certificates) is below the level of value at par times all the US Federal paper held by non US entities.

This is modernized because it is not like the old Federal Reserve Gold Certificate Ratio that was tied directly to the cost of money. It is revitalized because it moves to maintain the balance of the international balance sheet of the USA Inc.

Such a condition for a corporation is conducive to acceptance of its common shares. Such a condition by a country is conducive to the value of its common share namely its own currency. Thus, the old outdated and impractical US Federal Gold Certificate Ratio becomes modernized and revitalized.

If the holdings of US Federal paper dropped internationally, the US Treasury could stand pat or sell gold.

There is no question that instruments of speculation would immediately appear, allowing the market to place bets on the state of the US current Account, marking the price of gold to the assumed level thereby relieving the US Treasury of having to do anything at all but watch as the market keeps the US international balance sheet in balance for them.

The gold people would be quite pleased with the price of gold and quite displeased when they recognize who it protects. However, the system of Authoritarian Free enterprise with a sound US dollar controlled by gold - not convertible but as a control item of US creation of international liquidity - would guarantee the dollar's viability for generations to come.

It would reinstate a one alarm system and that alarm would be turned off immediately in the marketplace or by the US Treasury at will.

The action of the marketplace or by the US Treasury would - if liquidity is created - assure that the balance sheet of the USA was always in balance.

The fix to the problem is a balance sheet fix and not a fix that gold convertibility will have any place in.

Therefore, I disagree with the position that the US dollar and gold will break their relationship as predicted as the Reuters Mining Summit. That can only happen for short periods of time due to exogenous events. If we are going out on limbs, I predict this event to occur in 2012 which must be considered a respectful disagreement with the executive quoted in the following article.


Sinclair's scenario of the gold/dollar relationship moving forward.

I think it is very interesting that so many western Judeo-Christians, many of whom profess that their ancient record is historical truth but other ancient writings are merely mythic lately seem to be focusing on the date 2012, predicted as apocolyptic by the pagan Mayan calendar.

David Icke is probably hysterical at this irony.

An poinant question remains - is this truly prophetic, or just an example of global manipulation that uses the "ancients" as foci to pass blame for the ill effects of their malevolent ruling hanky-panky.

mikal@Goldilox#1329926/9/05; 23:01:16

Do predictions by gold mining companies (JS,Barick or Newmont etc.) as we've been getting this week have value?
I would say it depends on your outlook, or perhaps one's bottom line interests in preferring a stable mining environment.
Also what's so different about Tanzania, JS's
mining locale? The country may be stable now but that could change in a flash.
Nor would I trust paper currencies or proxies or wish to pay capital gains taxes that could soar, even as shares could plummet or become nationalized.

Rimh$$$$$$ 427.3 $$$$$$#1329936/9/05; 23:39:35

1) Will the Euro survive the recent French and Dutch votes? Yes! It is already established as a currency and the "old money" that's backing it will see that it survives. Why do you think they waited until several years after the Euro started circulation to float the constitution?

2) Do you believe the elections were a positive, negative, or neutral, for GOLD?? The short term outlook has appeared to be neutral to negative, but once it has had a little time to cool down, people will realize that they don't need the common constitution to have a common money - they used to use an even better common money not so long ago. The longer term effect will be positive for gold as the Euro shows it can survive the constitutional issue and remain a viable alternative currency (with some notable substance as a backstop....).

3) If you believe it is a positive or a negative, how many $$$'s do you believe will be added or subtracted from the present price of GOLD??? Are we talking how many Euro's will be added to the gold price, or how many dollars will it take to buy a Euro to buy gold (ok, so now I'm confused and haven't addressed the question yet....) My guess is none in the short term (already evident) and only a nominal $5 to $10 dollars upward amount will be attributable to the No Votes in France and Denmark because.....

4) Why???? politics in Euroland does not stand a chance at having any significant effect on the dollar price of gold as long as Sir Alan and his crew are driving the bus. And the Eurolanders prefer it that way, having given the US enough rope. They are waiting, patiently, knowing their time will soon come.....

GoldiloxPredictions#1329946/10/05; 00:07:15

@ mikal,

In this symbiotic world, relying completely on anyone else's predictions is suicidal. I try to read a cross-section of "analysts" and insiders to get a "feel" for the momentum.

Wasn't it Gordon Liddy who once said, "if you want yo know what's going on in the USSR, read the US-controlled media. If you want to know what's happening in the US, read Pravda."

Both sides of any issue are required reading IMHO.

I spend my mornings reading gold analysts on the internet while keeping an eye on the TV financial media. I don't necessarily believe that either has (or is willing to share) any comprehensive strategies.

Dollar Bill.,.#1329956/10/05; 04:53:20

Goldilox, so how many is so many?
HenriGoldilox#1329966/10/05; 07:32:08

Authoritarian Free Enterprise? Huh?

Doesn't your scenario in some way imply that the various countries including the US would have a credible audit of the amount of unencumbered gold they have?

As for the need to add to reserves...something the US would not hesitate to advance into...where are they going to come from? This alone would send the price of available gold up, then they would not have to buy it.

It would be the same game being played now except rather than supress the price of gold they would facilitate its unleashing. It would merely fluctuate in price according to the insanity of the lenders and become unobtainable by the masses. Its trade at those prices would only be obtainable by government agencies and the rest (Non-political etc) would be "Another" market.

If the only way to get new gold into the "government" False price coffers is by refining jewelry (presuming that the mine production [enforced by licensing ]is pledged [allocated] way in advance to govts behind in balances), then the cost differential between "Another" market "common" gold and "official" gold would/could be taken up in the cost of refinement. Suddenly Johnson Matthey stock looks very cheap. Or in the cost of certifying the govt' bars for storage (not certificating)

Isn't your scenario what we suspect is already happening behind the veil of the central bank/BIS/WB/IMF doings?

Free gold for use by the common man!


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ A "PRICE of GOLD" (POG) GUESSING CONTEST!! $$$$$$$$$$$$

We shall have a price guessing contest on the closing (Settlement price) of gold for the August Comex Contract (GCQ5) on USA Flag Day, Tuesday, June 14, 2005, ---BUT all entries must be posted to the TableRound before Midnight on Sunday, June 12th, AND ALL ENTRIES must answer SIR MK's "QUESTION" !!

The POG Contest winner -- the closest price guess to the actual Settlement Price -- will receive a prize of a Swiss 20 Francs Confederatio goldpiece symbolizing the Swiss confederation of Cantons that eventually became a nation. This beautiful goldpiece has a Fineness of 0.900, and Actual Gold Content of 0.1867 troy ounce and was minted between 1883 and 1896!

(These coins may be seen at the following LINK)
Gold 20 Francs Swiss Confederatio Helvetica

There will be also be two runners-up prizes for the next closest prognostications --- each winning an one ounce pure Silver U.S. Eagle.

The QUESTION -- (Put on your THINKING HATS, as it requires a MULTI-part ANSWER !)

1) Will the Euro survive the recent French and Dutch votes ?
2) Do you believe the elections were a positive, negative, or neutral, for GOLD??
3) If you believe it is a positive or a negative, how many $$$'s do you believe will be added or subtracted from the present price of GOLD???, AND
4) Why????


1) The Winner is the poster with the Price Guess closest to the Settlement price of the COMEX (most active) August 2005 Gold Contract (GCQ5) on the date of Tuesday, June 14, 2005.

2) Price "Guesses" shall be stated in Dollars and tenths !
(Such as $444.4)

3) "Guesses" shall be SHOWN in the SUBJECT BOX location AND enclosed in markers of "Dollar Signs" so as to be OFFICIAL !
(Such as $$$$$ $444.4 $$$$$$$ )

4) ONLY one "Guess" per Knight or Lady is allowed, and once that "Guess" has been "taken" -- no one can duplicate it !! FIRST COME has rights to that "Guess".

5) HOWEVER, All "Guesses" MUST be posted before the clock in Denver strikes MIDNIGHT (24:00) on Sunday, June 12, 2005.

6) AND MOST IMPORTANTLY (as this part MUST accompany the Price prognostication)
--- In order for your entry to be valid, entries will need to have answers to the four part QUESTION, of 30 words, OR MORE. <===== NOTE !!!
LET the CONTEST continue !
Entries should "POUR IN" after the COMEX close TODAY.
Don't miss your chance to claim your LUCKY number !


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ THE "PRICE of GOLD" GUESSING CONTEST!! $$$$$$$$$$$$

Entries as of 6/10/05 at just about 08:30 Denver time !!!


Listed in order of decreasing values !

$$$$ $481.0 $$$$ djac (06/08/05; 20:32:34MT - msg#: 132962)

$$$$ $440.0 $$$$ Sundeck (06/07/05; 04:18:03MT - msg#: 132912)

$$$$ $434.0 $$$$ Goldilox (6/9/05; 00:19:32MT - msg#: 132970)

$$$$ $432.9 $$$$ osa104c (6/8/05; 13:20:05MT - msg#: 132952)

$$$$ $432.4 $$$$ Liberty Head (6/8/05; 23:23:45MT - msg#: 132969)
$$$$ $432.3 $$$$ Federal_Reserves (6/6/05; 14:22:20MT - msg#: 132894)

$$$$ $430.1 $$$$ commish (06/08/05; 20:47:37MT - msg#: 132963)

$$$$ $428.8 $$$$ Topaz (06/07/05; 00:15:29MT - msg#: 132909)

$$$$ $427.3 $$$$ Rimh (6/9/05; 23:39:35MT - msg#: 132993)

$$$$ $425.0 $$$$ DryWasher (06/08/05; 18:17:47MT - msg#: 132959)

$$$$ $423.3 $$$$ nugget101 (6/8/05; 12:46:23MT - msg#: 132951)

$$$$ $418.1 $$$$ 2023 (06/07/05; 22:17:14MT - msg#: 132934)
$$$$ $418.0 $$$$ Zhisheng (6/8/05; 08:09:30MT - msg#: 132943)

CoBra(too)€/Gold#1329996/10/05; 08:58:40

Close to BO at 350€. Looks pretty good to break out and over the old resistance at 350 where it was repelled times since the $/gold bull begun.

Could this be the beginning of gold appreciating against all fiat currencies; The real thing for a l.t. gold bull to do!

Cheers cb2

slingshot$$$$$$$$424.2$$$$$$$#1330006/10/05; 09:12:57

Will the Euro survive the recent French and Dutch vote? The Euro will survive. The Euro is like Taxes. Once you get it on the books ,it is there to stay. The politicians and bankers want it and the heck with what the people want.
The elections were positive for gold.Made everyone talk about the NO vote by the French and Dutch. The Price of Gold will flux. Same ole'same ole. Up$6 and Down $4. and back up again. Everything is fine. Everything is A O.K.

USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.Avoid the crowds; prepare your portfolio BEFORE the panic#1330016/10/05; 09:32:32

GoldiloxRed Tide at Morning#1330026/10/05; 09:43:01


CBS/AP) Gov. Mitt Romney on Thursday declared a state of emergency because of the red tide bloom off the coast of Massachusetts, a move that allows the state to seek federal disaster aid for the shellfish industry.

Red tide is an algae that contaminates shellfish and can be dangerous to humans who eat the shellfish. It does not pose a risk to people who eat lobsters or finned fish, nor swimmers. Scallops also are not affected because people don't eat the part that absorbs the poison.

The red tide that has advanced southward from Maine over the past two months is the worst in New England since 1972. This is the first time Massachusetts has declared a state of emergency because of red tide.

Romney said he is seeking aid from both the U.S. Small Business Administration and the Department of Labor for shellfisherman and others affected by the algae. He said he didn't know how long it would take to get a response but that the request is being expedited.

Red tide is costing the shellfish industry about $3 million per week, Romney said. Retailers and shellfishermen say prices could rise.


More stresses on the price front, although the human danger seems duly downplayed. Hey, I wanna know who "eats the swimmers"? Euuuhh!

GoldiloxHow many?#1330036/10/05; 09:51:39

$ Bill,

Just noticing a lot of referernces to "2012" coming from other than the typical "New Age"sources. Haven't kept an actual tally, but now they seem to have moved from the "asronomical" to the "geological" to the "financial" pundits.

When is prophesy "fulfilled", and when is it just more manipulation by the descendants of the controllers who trace their "lineage" back for many centuries and seem to have their mitts in most all of the "institutions"?

I read last night that 34 of 43 US Presidents had traceable European "Royal" lineage. If intermarrying is bad for the gene pool, why do we keep getting leaders (all over the world) from the most concentrated part of that gene pool, even in the "free world"?

Seems weird, but is this indicative of the real "ownership society"? Notice how the British "colonies" of the 18-19th centuries really have all the same families in control of 90+% of the resources two centuries later. Case in point - Bill Gates is not the "little guy who made it big" that his PR machine purports, but a Harvard dropout from the Gates Tire and Rubber family - the connections were already in place.

During GS' testimony yesterday, one of the representatives asked him about the massive wealth concentratrion effects of his easy money "bubbles".

During the previous testimony one of them asked if anyone knew who controlled the funds for the bond purchases coming from the Caribbean bankster havens that seem to be "replacing" the BOJ and BOC as "lender of last resort".

Although the media seems to have forgotten how, a few still realize the importance of "following the money trail". . . or maybe only a few retain the "juevos" to publicly comment on Imperial fashion statements. The Los Alamos whistleblower, Sibel Edmonds (FBI), and Valerie Plame (CIA) cases graphically demonstrate the fate of dissenters, no matter their "position".

GoldiloxSinclair Scenario#1330046/10/05; 09:54:30

@ Henri,

Not MY scenario, but Sinclair's. I don't know if he would agree with your response, but I'm not agin' it.

TownCrierEuro/gold chart touches critical 350...#1330056/10/05; 09:54:38

(see bottom euro-denominated charts at url)

What will the traders do, push through or shy back?

More importantly, will the controlling central banks deem that the time is ripe to knock gold up Another notch? BAM!(?)


GoldiloxMore DX flight#1330066/10/05; 10:03:07

Gold seems to be holding up well, but the DX has taken flight again this morning.
TownCrierNation's trade deficit rises sharply -- up 12% on month to $57 billion#1330076/10/05; 10:04:43

(AP) Washington - The U.S. trade deficit shot up 12 percent in April to $56.96 billion, reflecting a surge in oil imports to the second highest level on record, the government reported today.

The Commerce Department said the new trade imbalance increased from a $53.56 billion deficit in March as imports rose 4.1 percent to a new record ($163.38 billion), swamping a 3 percent increase in U.S. export sales, which also set a record ($106.42 billion).

The average price for a barrel of crude oil imported during April hit a record high of $44.76 as global prices surged during the month.

^-----(from url)----^

Trade gap is poised to worsen in subsequent months as price of oil is higher yet.

Choose gold to safeguard the value of your savings throughout the times ahead.

Call USAGOLD-Centennial today.


geSinclair's Gold Price forecast increased#1330086/10/05; 10:06:10

Sinclair says:

"That is another way to say that the value of the gold held by the US Treasury would be at a market price that would when computed be equal to the amount of US Treasuries held by non-US entities calculated at par or 100 cents to the dollar issue price."

Amount of US Treasuries held by non-US entities = 1977.1 billions of dollars

Total - Treasury-Owned Gold = 261,506,451.142 Fine Troy Ounces

Dividing, we estimate Sinclair's Estimate: 7560 USD/oz

Sinclair's Estimate is beginning to converge to FOA's Estimate.

The Hoople$$$$ 429.4 $$$$#1330096/10/05; 10:17:57

1) The Euro will survive, albeit depending on what your definition of 'survive' is, to paraphrase a previous president. My old high school consolidated with two arch rivals 35 years ago. It has survived but we all still hate each other. The French fought many Euro members for centuries, to amalgamate currency is insufferable.

2) The vote was a positive in as much as it reveals all fiat to be at the whimsy of bureacrats and elitists. Its value, hence ours flaps with the printing press winds. Gold doesn't need a European Union, a 'strong dollar' or a stable remnibi. It needs a place to store it and a calculator to convert the CB fraud in any given country.

3&4) Gold in dollars- price it should be or will be? If the manipulation ends you will see multiples of $425. If the manipulation remains intact it will struggle to $500 and still not keep up with true inflation. As long as the Comex determines price discovery rigging will reign supreme. As long as there is a central banker breathing gold will be his mortal enemy. As long as I am breathing my wealth is subject to drastic reductions if I rely on dollars, euros, or any of their weak bretheren.

Clink!TC's post re. trade deficit#1330106/10/05; 10:18:40

Hmmm. I seem to remember that last month the trade deficit was lower than expected (mainly to booking a future aircraft order for India) and this, supposedly was the reason for a significant rise in the USDX that day. Today we have the reverse situation, so of course the USDX jumps ..... up ?!

Go figure.

TownCrierEuro denominated POG now hits 352.50 per ounce#1330116/10/05; 10:43:55

Click browser refresh button if necessary to see chart updates.

A nice little flourish to end the week.

Speak with the friendly and knowledgable staff at USAGOLD-Centennial to determine the right diversification strategy for you. No portfolio should go another day without a tangible component of gold. Lock in yours today.


GoldiloxAg not participating#1330126/10/05; 10:51:19

last week it seemed like silver was trumping gold with a $0.50 move while Au spun it wheels. The roles seem to have reversed today.
slingshotBreak Out!#1330136/10/05; 11:05:31

If you would, Sir Greenspan, tell the panel if we are close to a breakout in the price of Gold?

Mr Chairman, as I testified before. It would be hard to identfy a break out till one occurs and if its characteristics are simular to those which may make up a bubble, it may more difficult to determine under these market conditions.

Thank you, Sir Alan.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.


GoldiloxPossible Storm evacs in Gulf oil platforms#1330146/10/05; 11:42:39


By Mark Babineck and Erwin Seba

HOUSTON, June 10 (Reuters) - U.S. crude and natural gas producers on Friday removed workers from platforms in the Gulf of Mexico and at least one shut output in advance of Tropical Storm Arlene, the companies said.

One of the gulf's largest producers, Chevron Corp. (CVX,Trade), said it was evacuating 900 company and contract workers from the area, including some essential ones, but production was not affected.

Another major producer, Shell ((SHEL.L)) ((RD.AS)), pulled 150 nonessential workers from structures likely to experience the worst weather. The company expected them to return to the Gulf on Sunday.

"There are no plans at this time to shut in any production as a result of the storm," Shell said in a statement.

The U.S. Gulf of Mexico produces about 25 percent of the nation's oil and gas. In 2003, crude production offshore in the Gulf of Mexico was 1.7 million barrels per day. Natural gas production was about 12.3 billion cubic feet per day.

Murphy Oil Corp. (MUR,Trade) said it was shutting three oil and natural gas platforms, the majority of its Gulf of Mexico production, and removing all workers on them ahead of the storm.

The company declined to give specific production numbers but said it was closing deepwater platforms Medusa and Front Runner as well as shallow-water platform Viosca Knoll.

Industry estimates show Medusa produces about 40,000 bpd of oil and 40 million cubic feet per day of natural gas. Frontrunner was running at 15,000 barrels of oil equivalent per day late last year,

Arlene, the first storm of what is expected to be a busy hurricane season, entered the southeastern Gulf of Mexico Friday morning with maximum sustained winds of 55 mph, with chances of strengthening in the next 24 hours, the U.S. National Hurricane Center said in its 8 a.m. EDT (1200 GMT) report.

The storm was on a forecast path similar to last September's much-stronger Hurricane Ivan, which cut 45 million barrels of U.S. oil production and was the most devastating storm in U.S. oil history, according to the U.S. Minerals Management Service.

Overall, most companies' workers evacuated as of Friday morning were not essential to oil and gas production.

BP ((BP.L)), Total S.A. ((TOTF.PA)), Chevron, Murphy Oil and Anadarko Petroleum (APC,Trade) began evacuations on Thursday ahead of the storm, company spokesmen said.

Apache Corp. (APA,Trade) said on Friday it had decided not to remove personnel because the storm was headed east of its platforms, spokesman Tony Lentini said.

On Friday, Exxon Mobil Corp. (XOM,Trade) said it had not evacuated any workers or shut production by Thursday evening, adding that an update would be given later Friday.

Marathon (MRO,Trade) and Kerr-McGee (KMG,Trade) were monitoring the storm but had not yet decided on evacuations, the companies said Thursday afternoon.

On Thursday, major driller Transocean (RIG,Trade) was evacuating 65 people from its moored semisubmersible rig Transocean Marianas, which is working for Murphy, spokesman Guy Cantwell said.

Arlene was expected to reach land on Saturday morning somewhere between central Louisiana and the Florida Panhandle.


Strong solar activity this week - followed by first Caribbean activity.

McCanney's weather principles ring true.

Watch the gulf for potential oil flow interruptions.

GoldiloxBreak Out#1330156/10/05; 12:13:11

@ Sir Slingshot,

Send your questions to Ron Paul. He's the only one with the stones to ask such pointed questions of the His Royal Greenspamness.

GoldiloxShockingly low international central bank interest in 10-year Treasury auction#1330166/10/05; 12:41:59


Indirect bidders at the US Treasury auction reopening represents foreign central banks’ demand for US treasuries. The demand from indirect bidders was only 10.7% of the issue. This represents a continuing downtrend of foreign demand and the lowest level of interest this year.

It appears that the dollar rally is not influencing central bank's expressed desire to diversify out of the US dollar as their primary reserve currency. It is therefore reasonable to conclude that the major demand for dollars in this rally is solely public and short covering. That is limited in time and duration.

Please keep in mind that the dollar will gain its major price influence from the US Treasury TIC report. A net inflow of $55 to $58 billion is the minimum required to meet Federal cash requirements in light of the US Trade Deficit and US Federal Budget deficits.

The indirect bidder level at the US treasury auction reopening is a good indication of the trend of international interest overall in US Treasury paper. We just got a message of disinterest which adds one more fundamental hole in the dollar rally.


Is this a plausible explaination as to why the DX and Au are rising simultaneously?

Belgian@ TC#1330176/10/05; 12:46:37

I suspect that something (drastic) has happened, Sir. You might have it right with €-POG breaking through the 350 €/Oz barrier.
All of a sudden, China seems very accomodative (yuan-textile quota, etc). Could it be that IMF gold (x-tonnes) is to be shipped to China and that the dollar AND euro devalue together versus the Asian currencies !? Western alliance versus Asian (super)power !? And let's pull the whole of Asia deeper into the IMF and use stick + golden carot for further $-IMS support...for a considerable (?) period of time.

Let's watch if the oil-pricers are also pleased with higher goldprices and if this is a good reason to increase output (somewhat) > Lower $(and €)-POO

$-€ exchange rate : USTB-10 yrs = 4,1% and German bunds-10 yrs = 3,14% What will happen to the $-€ exch.rate, if and when both IRs converge !?

Solana is in Bagdad (with Straw). What if a renewed UN is to be funded with a "global" tax on oil !? Less US unilateralism ?

Or, are we simply seeing the West organizing a fresh wind of controlled inflation (currency-depreciation) ?

TopazBond/Gold/DX.#13301806/10/05; 13:40:35

Simply "amazing!" ...NOT altDX/Gold (which is now @ $40 ish divergence) ...but Bond which was expected to ratchet UP a lot stronger to accompany an 88.7 DX.
One can only summise the Market, hell bent on a Deflationary flight to the here-and-now, is discounting the curve as "under-management".

TopazFYI altDX/Gold.#13301906/10/05; 13:45:14

Scalings in the Weekly are a good LT indicator however "recent-best-fit" is MUCH more encouraging!
TownCrierHEADLINE: Gold shines as ornament and investment#13302006/10/05; 13:53:21

NEW YORK, June 10 (Reuters) - Gold's allure shows no sign of waning as Asian consumers don more jewelry, investors spurn currencies and Swiss vaults bulge with the alternative investment, top gold executives said at the Reuters Mining Summit this week.

"People are buying gold because they don't want to buy euros, they do not want to buy the dollar. It is going to the Middle East. It is going to India and it is going to China. Those are the big markets right now, and Turkey," said Pierre Lassonde president of the world's largest gold producer Newmont Mining Corp

Gold, as a classic hedge against global investors' worries about inflation or geopolitical instability, has been a beneficiary of the dollar's three-year decline through the end of 2004, while a rising disposable income in China and India has supported demand.

...Lassonde too was optimistic, encouraged by the prospect of the revaluation of China's currency.

"If we see a revaluation with the renminbi (yuan), I would think that gold sales in China are going to increase even more substantially," he said.

"Then India revalues, and all of the countries that are competing against China are all going to revalue which is going to make gold even more attractive in Asia," said Lassonde.

^-----(from url)------^

A series of economic shifts and events are building to make gold THE investment of the new millennium.


NedWow! What a day!#13302106/10/05; 14:09:26

It seems the rising $ and rising POG has been a bit of a 'flirt-job' all week but today was indeed the real thing.

I cannot recall FOA/Trailguide's reasoning behind this rising $/rising POG phenomona. Are we nearing the end?

Anyone w/ ideas, thoughts?

Have a golden weekend.

Ned Johnson

slingshotGoldilox#13302206/10/05; 14:15:35

He Da Man! Need a few more like him. For now I guess I will Break Out some Cheese and Crackers and Yes! the Burpbo Sudso. Sit back and Lurk awhile.

TownCrierNed, gold rising as dollar rises...#13302306/10/05; 15:23:10

The way I see it, it was always to be expected that gold would naturally rise (a permanent trend sort of thing) when a euro-styled regime (that is, MTM "free gold" reserves) became the dominant factor in the international monetary system.

Thus, with gold generally trending upwards against all currencies, whether or not the gold price in an "alternate" currency unit (such as the dollar) rises particularly when that currency stages a rally against the "benchmark" numeraire (i.e., euro) will depend on whether or not the currency rally outpaces the underlying gold performance.

But really, with that sort of MTM gold reserve regime in mind, gold is currently so greatly undervalued that the "equilibrium" condition I described above doesn't really apply. With tension between the current price suppression versus a gigantic revaluation in gold looming somewhere in the interim, all bets are off regarding neat and tidy explanations and correlations. During this period, gold will move around in the tug-o-war, and if you keep your eye on the prize, you can choose to ignore the various concurrent currency exchange rate fluctuations as semi-trivial background noise.

Sorry, on second review, I don't think these comments will be of any use... but will post them anyway.


USAGOLD Daily Market ReportPage Update!#1330246/10/05; 15:52:09">
The Daily Gold Market Report has been updated.

If you are considering investments in gold we invite you to">request our free introductory information packet detailing the products and services offered by USAGOLD ~ Centennial Precious Metals. We welcome your inquiry and look forward to working with you.

Friday Market Excerpts

June 10 (from DowJones) -- A break through a key level in the euro-denominated cash gold market enabled COMEX gold futures to rally sharply Friday during the last 1 1/2 hours of the session, traders said.

In doing so, the market was able to shake off the effect of a sharply stronger dollar, which had nudged gold prices lower during the morning.

One analyst also suggested that decent physical demand for the metal lately has led to short covering after support held.

August gold gained $3.20 to $429.30.

Gold and silver were softer this morning as the dollar surged a full penny against the euro following a narrower-than-forecast U.S. trade deficit ($57 billion).

But around late morning and early afternoon, gold suddenly shot higher.

Buying was triggered when the cash gold market poked up through 350 euros, reported both Bernard Hunter, director of precious metals for Scotia Mocatta, and Paul McLeod, vice president for precious metals at Commerzbank.

"The euro gold price had been trading sub 350 euros for some time," said Hunter.

"People had been watching that level. At one point during the day, it nudged up through 350. Once it broke, it probably triggered off some stop/loss buying."

In euro terms, cash gold got up around $352.50, he noted.

This 350-euro level for gold was an important psychological number for the metal, especially considering gold's normal correlation with the U.S. dollar.

McLeod commented that "waves of fund buying" occurred as gold accelerated to the upside after breaking the 350-euro level.

Topaz@Ned, Randy.#1330256/10/05; 16:35:10

Whilst it's completely rational NOW to be exuberated with "price" performance of Gold, the REAL test is ahead of us.
IF this move is related to "flight to quality" ie: Cash and Gold in the case of participants discounting "future" returns for "present" possession, (as I suspect)...we have to factor in a "reasonable" chance that "P"oG, due to the method of "pricing" via paper substitutes, will plummet as traders realise their fate!

It's all about possession, just ask the US WHY they don't want to sell IMF Gold.

Great Albino BatBe careful before you believe what you read....#1330266/10/05; 16:45:49

I picked this up at a neighboring site:

June 10, 2005, "The National Bureau of Investigation ( NBI ) on Thursday said it has arrested two British nationals with $3 trillion fake US federal bank notes in their possession, DZMM reported.

(I think this refers to an incident that took place in the Philipines)

Hmmm...let's see: $3 trillion is $3 milllion millions, right?

I have calculated that one million bills, of whatever denomination, take up 1 (one) cubic meter - about 36 cubic feet.

So, if we use just $100 dollar bills, we can fit $100 million into one cubic meter - some 36 cubic feet.

3 million divided by 100 gives us...30,000.

So, that's 30,000 cubic meters are necessary to hold $3 trillion in $100 US FRN.

30,000 cubic meters are contained in a building over 300 feet long by over 300 feet wide by 10 feet high.

Conclusion: someone goofed! Do the math: the most you could pack into a large suitcase, in $100 FRN, is about $7.5 million dollars. (Don't try it, you'll probably bust the suitcase). The report about smuggled fake dollars probably refers to $3 MILLION, not $3 Trillion.

To get away with a sizeable amount of loot, do it electronically!

Nice weekend, all!


SundeckDebt relief and IMF gold#13302706/10/05; 17:07:55



U.S. and Britain Agree on Relief for Poor Nations

Published: June 10, 2005


The second issue was whether to sell some of the International Monetary Fund's gold reserves to help pay off the loans owed to the fund. The United States objected to any gold sales, saying it would drive down the price of gold on the open market, hurting, among others, American gold producers. The compromise was to draw, in part, on the proceeds earned by the monetary fund from sales of gold in the 1990's, according to the official.

Sundeck: Looks like Britain and the USA have struck a compromise deal to write off debt of 18 heavily indebted countries. The plan is to be presented at the upcoming G8 conference. Looks like no gold is to be sold afterall...

Nice atypical move in gold on Friday...looks like some people bailing out of the Euro and some of the proceeds are finding their way into gold. The surge in the 5-currency BOT USDX index probably reflects a weakening Euro, not a "strengthening" dollar, since the Euro is the largest contributor to the index.

Silver more or less flat...different currents run beneath these metals...


CoBra(too)A Sea Change in Conception?#13302806/10/05; 17:30:50

I do believe we are witnessing a sea change in global currency markets vis a vis the only currency of lasting value - Gold.

The €/Gold price has broken above 350 and closed at 352.11. Even vis a vis a surging Dollar gold started to rise quite dramatically when the BO in €'s happened.

Whatever the l.t. realignment of major currency blocks may be - gold will be the ultimatze winner; And it is now determined to show its intrinsic strenght even whiter all constraints and shackles.

All the projections of Euroland and its Euro being extinct
due to the rejection of a common constitution is only political noise; That's exactly what was rejected - political uniformism. Otherwise the EU still stands on the same pillars it stood for quite a while now.
A constitution may be relegated back to the drawing boards at one stage - and effectively noone's the poorer. I rather feel it's quite positive that the voters rejected a political agenda, only benefitting "Brussels". (Would wish the US public could vote on ever increasing Homeland security idiocies ... etc.)

Well, to sum it up, the EU problems be it in the no vote, the slow pace of the economy, the unemployment et al may not be as drastic as seen by US economists using their domestic $-based yardsticks. The EU still uses less hedonic measures for their economies performance; It also suffers from sizeable government deficits, though it still has overall current account surplusses and positive private saving rates as well as corpoprate liquidity.

In sum the US monetary and financial problems are of a magnitude that invite disaster on any front- be it derivative, mortgage or even TSY related. And yes, the rest of the globalized world will feel its devastating impact - and thats why the implosion was deferred until now.

How much longer? Not for ever - would be my guess!
Got Gold? cb2

GoldendomeThe price of Loyalty#13302906/10/05; 17:56:06

Open forum posting:

I took the opportunity last night to watch Fed. Chairman Greenspan's testimony before congress as replayed on C-span. After discussing "Pago" spending possibilities (pay as you go)--One congressman asked Mr. Greenspan had he ever discussed "Pago" tax cuts with the administration in efforts to reduce federal deficits...cutting taxes only if and when deficits could be capped.

Greenspan smiled broadly and slyly while replying in effect: I have discussed that possibility with many administration officials over the years.

One official that he certainly discussed the issue with several times as revealed in the book by Ronald Suskind, "The Price of Loyalty, George Bush, the White House, and the education of Paul O'Neil", was the former Secretary of the Treasury, Paul O'Neil.

O'Neil and Greenspan as former mates dating back to the President Ford administration, were on very good terms and both favored triggers on the second and third tax cuts to be implemented only if deficits could be controlled. Greenspan remained mum publicly on the subject, while O'Neil revealed his worries about the two latter tax cuts and the detrimental effects on the budget deficit. [It had been O'neil who had proposed the form of the first instant tax rebate in mid 2001 when there was need for instant stimulus.] O'neill felt that the last two tax cuts could not be justified as needed stimulus and told President Bush bluntly in one of his final cabinet meetings, that a third tax cut in the face of growing deficits would be irresponsible.

Another thing that Mr. O'neil had warned the President about, was that in his opinion the President would find it very difficult to implement his favored Social Security changes (you recall that this was part of the 2000 campaign) if the budget deficits were allowed to grow out of hand.
The President wanted to know why? Because of the costs involved, replied the Treasury Secretary. What costs? asks Bush. The money needed to transition to private accounts, said O'neill. Well, how much will that be? About a trillion dollars, O'neil said. The President just stared with a blank look on his face.

Of course, the famous, pointing out of 44 trillion in unfunded government liabilities did not either endear him to the administration. Though as O'neil might say, you can change direction if you know where your headed.

For anyone that has not already read, "The Price of Loyalty" by Ronald Suskind-- I highly recommend it! I read it twice; then passed my copy on to a brother in law, with an inscription to continue to pass the book to new and interested readers.

One further comment: O'neil makes it very clear that Iraq was on the table at the first cabinet meeting in Jan. of 2001. Read it. You'll find it very interesting.

Rocky$$$$ $425.8 $$$$#13303006/10/05; 19:04:53

The Euro will survive the recent Dutch & French negative vote. It has been accepted and it is very unlikely that it will be undone. The elections were neutral to positive for gold. It is and has always been a European trading tool that also has been a source of savings accumulations. With or without the Euro, there will be an unchanged attitude toward gold. The price of gold will continue to move up and down based, more or less, on what the dollar does. The likelihood of a continuing increase in price is due to the fear, uncertainty and doubt (FUD Factor) shrouding the world financial community. Why? Gold is a global financial tool also used for saving the rainy day. There is a fixed perspective on its value that will remain unchanged for many years to come regardless of perturbations of the various currencies.
Toolie$$$$ $424.6 $$$$#13303106/10/05; 19:49:48

1) Will the Euro survive the recent French and Dutch votes? – The Euro will adopt a more dollar like, inflation friendly regime in an attempt to offset high unemployment that results from de-localization. Call it bubble envy.

2) Do you believe the elections were a positive, negative, or neutral, for GOLD? – Short-term positive. There aren't enough birdcages to accommodate all the paper that will be looking for a home.

3 & 4) If you believe it is a positive or a negative, how many $$$'s do you believe will be added or subtracted from the present price of GOLD???, AND Why? – Over the next year I suspect $100 added. I think that it's fair to expect the Euro may view the possibility of failure to adopt a constitution as a monetary emergency on the scale of 9/11, and respond in kind. Over the year following 9/11 Au moved about $60. Though I expect the Euro inflation to be more restrained than the dollar inflation, Au now has more momentum and other events such as; dollar weakening, Asian demand and yes, continuing trouble in the Middle East should make up the additional $40. So June 10, 2006 gold will close at $526.70 (or there abouts).

The Invisible HandChina's Currency and U.S.-China Trade Policy #13303206/10/05; 21:17:59

Belgian writes about IMF gold (x-tonnes) being shipped to China and the dollar AND euro devaluing together versus the Asian currencies
and CoBra(too) about a Sea Change in Conception.
Here's what the lunatics were doing two days ago in the Senate of the US of A.

China's Currency and U.S.-China Trade Policy
Speaker: Charles Schumer, U.S. Senate (D-N.Y.)
Presider: Nancy Roman, vice president and director, Washington Program, Council on Foreign Relations
Council on Foreign Relations
Washington, DC
June 8, 2005

Here's why it's the free-trade bill. A tenet of free trade is that currencies float, plain and simple. Yes, we used to peg currencies to gold or something else a very long time ago, but that was before there were lots of trade flows. Once you have a lot of trade flows back and forth, you need the currency to float and, in fact, it becomes self correcting. When there's a big trade deficit and currencies float, the value of exports of that country goes up, the value of imports goes down, it's self correcting and the balance occurs. And it creates markets. It creates one world market. It allows efficient producers in a country to succeed and inefficient producers in that country to fall to competition. Nothing could be more a part of the tenet of free trade than to let your currency float.
And so we believe that our legislation, whose sole purpose is to get the Chinese to play by the rules that every other major power trades by, is a free-trade proposal.
Free trade at the point of gun.


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ A "PRICE of GOLD" (POG) GUESSING CONTEST!! $$$$$$$$$$$$

We shall have a price guessing contest on the closing (Settlement price) of gold for the August Comex Contract (GCQ5) on USA Flag Day, Tuesday, June 14, 2005, ---BUT all entries must be posted to the TableRound before Midnight on Sunday, June 12th, AND ALL ENTRIES must answer "THE QUESTION" !!

The POG Contest winner -- the closest price guess to the actual Settlement Price -- will receive a prize of a Swiss 20 Francs Confederatio goldpiece symbolizing the Swiss confederation of Cantons that eventually became a nation. This beautiful goldpiece has a Fineness of 0.900, and Actual Gold Content of 0.1867 troy ounce and was minted between 1883 and 1896!

(These coins may be seen at the following LINK)
Gold 20 Francs Swiss Confederatio Helvetica

There will be also be two runners-up prizes for the next closest prognostications --- each winning an one ounce pure Silver U.S. Eagle.

The QUESTION -- (Put on your THINKING HATS, as it requires a MULTI-part ANSWER !)

1) Will the Euro survive the recent French and Dutch votes ?
2) Do you believe the election was a positive, negative or neutral for GOLD??
3) If you believe it is a positive or a negative, how many $$$'s do you believe will be added or subtracted from the present price of GOLD???, AND
4) Why????


1) The Winner is the poster with the Price Guess closest to the Settlement price of the COMEX (most active) August 2005 Gold Contract (GCQ5) on the date of Tuesday, June 14, 2005.

2) Price "Guesses" shall be stated in Dollars and tenths !
(Such as $444.4)

3) "Guesses" shall be SHOWN in the SUBJECT BOX location AND enclosed in markers of "Dollar Signs" so as to be OFFICIAL !
(Such as $$$$$ $444.4 $$$$$$$ )

4) ONLY one "Guess" per Knight or Lady is allowed, and once that "Guess" has been "taken" -- no one can duplicate it !! FIRST COME has rights to that "Guess".

5) HOWEVER, All "Guesses" MUST be posted before the clock in Denver strikes MIDNIGHT (24:00) on Sunday, June 12, 2005.

6) AND MOST IMPORTANTLY (as this part MUST accompany the Price prognostication)
--- In order for your entry to be valid, entries will need to have answers to the four part QUESTION, of 30 words, OR MORE. <===== NOTE !!!


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ THE "PRICE of GOLD" GUESSING CONTEST!! $$$$$$$$$$$$

Entries as of 6/11/05 at just about 00:01 Denver time !!!
LESS than 48 Hours to go before Entry DEADLINE !!!


Listed in order of decreasing values !

$$$$ $481.0 $$$$ djac (06/08/05; 20:32:34MT - msg#: 132962)

$$$$ $440.0 $$$$ Sundeck (06/07/05; 04:18:03MT - msg#: 132912)

$$$$ $434.0 $$$$ Goldilox (6/9/05; 00:19:32MT - msg#: 132970)

$$$$ $432.9 $$$$ osa104c (6/8/05; 13:20:05MT - msg#: 132952)

$$$$ $432.4 $$$$ Liberty Head (6/8/05; 23:23:45MT - msg#: 132969)
$$$$ $432.3 $$$$ Federal_Reserves (6/6/05; 14:22:20MT - msg#: 132894)

$$$$ $430.1 $$$$ commish (06/08/05; 20:47:37MT - msg#: 132963)

$$$$ 429.4 $$$$ The Hoople (6/10/05; 10:17:57MT - msg#: 133009)

$$$$ $428.8 $$$$ Topaz (06/07/05; 00:15:29MT - msg#: 132909)

$$$$ $427.3 $$$$ Rimh (6/9/05; 23:39:35MT - msg#: 132993)

$$$$ $425.8 $$$$ Rocky (06/10/05; 19:04:53MT - msg#: 133030)

$$$$ $425.0 $$$$ DryWasher (06/08/05; 18:17:47MT - msg#: 132959)

$$$$ $424.6 $$$$ Toolie (06/10/05; 19:49:48MT - msg#: 133031)

$$$$ $424.2 $$$$ slingshot (6/10/05; 09:12:57MT - msg#: 133000)

$$$$ $423.3 $$$$ nugget101 (6/8/05; 12:46:23MT - msg#: 132951)

$$$$ $418.1 $$$$ 2023 (06/07/05; 22:17:14MT - msg#: 132934)
$$$$ $418.0 $$$$ Zhisheng (6/8/05; 08:09:30MT - msg#: 132943)

Gandalf the WhiteTHE "KING OF THE HILL" REPORT <;-)#1330356/11/05; 00:25:20

Settlement Aug. '05 COMEX Gold Friday 6/10/05 = $429.3

AND, with an Entry Friday before the close of the COMEX, of
$$$$ 429.4 $$$$ The Hoople (6/10/05; 10:17:57MT - msg#: 133009)

(Hang in there !)

Smeagol$$$$ 433.2 $$$$#1330366/11/05; 00:39:05

1) Will the Euro survive the recent French and Dutch votes ?

Yess... it did, and we think it will keep going, as it is firmly established now like the dollar. Not that the ripples generated by the election will die down ssoon, O no. And not that the Euro will die too... ssome fine day.

2) Do you believe the elections were a positive, negative, or neutral, for GOLD??

Hmmm, sss... what we actually thinks, precious, is that behind the scenes there were some PTB that were hoping for (counting on?) a "No" to cool the Euro off a that more time could be gained for Gold-shuffling... while the justly black-eyed EU planners go back and re-write a more freedom-friendly Consstitution for another try at...sss..."unification". We has no evidence, jusst a feeling...but with It hitting 350 Euro, we waits to ssee if that will have any effect.

Ultimately we thinks the central banks have more of an influence on It than any Consstitution.

In the sense that EU confidence was shaken by the "No" vote... thiss would be 'de-sstabilizing' and good for It, yess, as it may inspire ssome to take a close look at It as insurance insstead of Euros.

3) If you believe it is a positive or a negative, how many $$$'s do you believe will be added or subtracted from the present price of GOLD???,

Sss...maybe a few tens of dollars either way over the next few months.

4) AND Why????

Ach, mainly, a knee-jerk reaction. One currency jiggling a little bit is not going to wake It up from It's centuries-years resst, O no precious. The Euro is a big fiat-currency, but we thinks dollar-precarioussness will outdo the Euro in price-sswing unreality-show entertainment. And the Euro-Consstitution will go back to the drafting-board, and eventually surface again for a vote.


Gandalf the White$$$$ $433.3 $$$$#1330376/11/05; 00:39:40

The Hobbits, after much discussion, have FINALLY reached an agreement on the POG Entry value !

Answers to the QUESTION(S) were far easier to reach than the Entry value !
1) Will the Euro survive the recent French and Dutch votes ?
--- OF course, it will survive ! [after all something that has nearly one-half its "RESERVES" {NOT BACKING} in GOLD is far better that the "no REAL reserves" {ther than FAITH} of the US$.]

2) Do you believe the elections was a positive, negative or neutral for GOLD??
--- The French and Dutch elections were a slightly more positive than NEUTRAL effect for GOLD, as I NOW SHOWS that the Euro price of GOLD (POG) has become even more VALUABLE in Euros that it was before ! (as the POG in Euros has NOW BROKEN THE 350 Euro prior "Barrier" level)

3) If you believe it is a positive or a negative, how many $$$'s do you believe will be added or subtracted from the present price of GOLD???, AND Why????
--- In US$, the additional INCREASE of the POG will cause the VALUE of GOLD to increase to the $433.3 per ounce level by the time of COMEX SETTLEMENT on the USA Flag Day, June 14th, 2005, BECAUSE, my Crystal Ball says so !

Gandalf the WhiteWOWSERS -- Hugs Sir Smeagol !!#1330386/11/05; 00:41:29

While typing (35 seconds)

Felix the Cat$$$$ $431.5 $$$$#1330396/11/05; 01:32:32

The votes have been survived Euro as the price of Euro was being at high level, and the cooling down of cooperation that could help to optimize the Euro-system. However the votes were just a little bit helped the POG(close to neutral). The main force to push POG is the pressure of RMB revaluation. China Gov. is holding more than 400 billions US$, so it is impossible to devaluate its worth (even just 1%) without any profit. Unless it moved most of the $ to Gold & Oil.
Bizarro-GreenspanEuro 350,the Maginot Line for gold#1330406/11/05; 02:21:23

"The chart analysis gives an objective of gold in dollars of 600 dollars following the break-out of the resistance at 430 dollars. Gold in Euros has an objective of 450 euros per ounce, if it breaks the resistance at the 350 euros level. That is + 30 % for the ounce of gold in euros and + 33 % for the ounce in US dollars. The same % rise of gold between both currencies creates a problem with the scenario of the decline of the dollar with regard to the euro, thus several possibilities are forseen:

1. The analysis of the decline of the dollar with regard to the euro is false.

2. The ounce of gold in euros does not break the resistance at 350 euros and the ounce of gold in dollars rises only to 600 dollars.

3. The 600-dollar objective for one ounce of gold is too weak.
If the ounce of gold goes to 450 euro and the dollar goes down at the same pace as during the first stage of the price increase of the ounce of gold, then the price of gold would be 770 dollars. The chart analysis of the price of gold seem bullish to me in for both currencies, but in what proportion in euros and dollars? Just wait and see."



Hello,Topaz'smiley thing here.

Bizarro-GreenspanANOTHER ORO snippet from long ago#1330416/11/05; 02:25:08

FOA - Black Blade reposts
ORO (06/07/01; 23:08:13MT - msg#: 55632)
Black Blade - Euro survival
The euro is a political beast rather than an economic one. Thus its economic performance is secondary to its political performance. So long as it is not a total and utter failure, it will survive in European use, if nothing else, then because it will be required for paying taxes, sort of like tally sticks (they lasted for nearly 400 years though they could only be used to pay taxes).

The purposes of the euro internally vary depending on which supporter group you look at. For the inheritors of DeGaulle and Rueff, the purpose is independence from the dollar, if not competition with it. For the Eurocracy, it is the potential means for Brussels to obtain infinite funding to go along with its NATO ex US military. For the ECB economic well wishers, and business, it is supposed to bring about jurisdictional competition on matters of tax and regulation so as to lower the harmful effects of both. For the EU governments, the political class in general, it is an opportunity to cartelize government services so that people and particularly businesses will not have the opportunity to shop for the best government for the tax burden because all governments can impose a standardized package. Bankers, of course, want to be free of competition among currencies for quality, stability, and flexibility, they most definitely got what they wanted, and are the only sure beneficiaries of the EU.

In order for the "free market" faction to see its version of Europe rise, they have only to win France (not bloody likely unless Paris undergoes massive death from some plague)..."

Ned@ Goldendome#1330426/11/05; 05:15:09

Funny, every time I go to the bookstore I stop and look at "The Price of Loyalty" but have to pass because the hardcover is so dear. Your comments may have tipped the scale, I have for so long wanted to hear what mechanisms drive Mr. Bush to do what he does.

Thank you.

P.S.: I saw Clinton's "My Life" in softcover for $12 at the grocery store. Have you (anyone) read this one?

Ned$525 gold#1330436/11/05; 05:26:59

Got to thinking about Lassonde's bold statement this week of a significant rise in the POG to $525 by January 2006. That's a tall order in a short time span. Wonder what's on his brain?

Then there's talk that the Chinese are accepting (demanding?) gold to level up the trade deficit(s). Gotta wonder how long all the foreign contries (many Asian) are going to accept 'banana' notes for their products. Kind of gets you thinking about FOA's theories about that $17 and a pinch of gold for a barrel of the black stuff. Hmmmmm? Maybe the Chinese have caught on to the oil producers 'leveling the playing field'.

Going back to Belgian's famous quote about half a year ago, "yellow gold replaces black" perhaps the Chinese are playing the game at face value, "yellow replaces FRN's". If the Chinese are playing this game it won't take long to go though a huge pile at several billion a month. Again, wonder if Lassonde is privy to something?

We wait and see, yes?

BTW, I saw a note on the neighboring castle, someone mentioned that Bush, Rice and Cheney (mayve even Snow) have been awfully quiet in the lasy few weeks.

RWE coming soon?

Have a golden weekend.

Ned....and BTW, I start Typing 101 next week.#1330446/11/05; 05:28:56

USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.Heads, tails, (or edge), a gold coin makes you a winner with every toss and turn.#1330456/11/05; 09:50:04">gold -- a global calling card
Chris PowellG8 cancels poor nations' debts without IMF gold sales#1330466/11/05; 10:00:22

"Money for nothin' and chicks for free."

Latest GATA dispatch.

To subscribe to GATA's dispatches, send an e-mail to:

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Chally$$$$ $435.5 $$$$#1330476/11/05; 11:08:47

1) Will the Euro survive the recent French and Dutch votes ?....Yes, the Euro has always existed without any political 'union' and will continue to do so.

2) Do you believe the elections were a positive, negative, or neutral, for GOLD??.....Well, as we already have some evidence(post election) I'd have to say the effect is at least a mild positive for the POG.

3) If you believe it is a positive or a negative, how many $$$'s do you believe will be added or subtracted from the present price of GOLD???, AND
4) Why????........Breaking the EU350 barrier could mean a short term move of say 10% (total crap-shoot here) so in $$ terms lets say maybe +$30 - +$40....why?... well it appears there is a PERCEPTION (by the recent weakness in the EURO/$ price that this NO vote is counterproductive to the Euro-partners economic well-being. Since FEAR and GREED move markets, these folks may move to protect their wealth, using gold to insure themselves against their currently weakening currency.

Dollar Bill.,#1330486/11/05; 12:03:21

I do believe that the first action of the NWO, was the money for africa Blair requested and got.
The second action, the elimination of the debt of 40 third world nations. Other paternalistic actions are sure to follow.

Smeagol> ! <#1330496/11/05; 12:41:30

Ach! Wizard-hugs, gaahhh! No need for that, Ssir Gandalf... there is room enough for both our Guesses. But (bowing) we are honored to have a seat next to yours this time around (grin)


(sneak an eye over his shoulder at that crystal ball of his, too, if you can, precious...)

SmeagolNations... it's what's for supper!#1330506/11/05; 12:48:33


sss.... wait for it, precious............ there....... yess........ nibble... nibble...>YANK!< Gotcha!!

A few tid-bits from link:

"As many as 20 other countries could be eligible if they meet strict targets for good governance and tackling corruption, leading to a total debt relief package of more than $55 billion."

If? Strict? Targets? Good governance? Definitions, please!

"Bush also made a significant concession, agreeing that rich nations would provide extra money to the multilateral bodies to compensate for those assets being written off and would ensure that future aid packages would not be affected."

'rich nations' = you and us on the treadmills, where such are found.

"This is a great deal for people in many of the very poorest countries... a tribute to the growing global campaigns to beat poverty... This bold step builds serious momentum for a historic breakthrough on doubling effective aid and trade justice at the G8 summit next month."

watchwords/ double-edge knives: "great deal", "tribute" "effective", "campaign", "justice"

ach...we likes this newfangled fiat fishing-method, precious... issue money-bait from thin air, trick those nations into tasting it... when they swallow it, they'll feel the sting of the hook then, O yess, they will... then we will play them, find out what they are made of, until they tire enough to bring them in... ah, look at this one, he is fat with resources we can use... O, but we are not cruel, O no! Let us release the poor thing... here, nice nation... let us take that nassty hook out of your gullet...
there, better?

What, you thought we were going to release you back into the River?? No, O, no, precious... you can be 'free' in this water-bucket where we can keep an eye on you... until we has time to eat you... we have more to catch in the meantime...


Max Rabbitz$$$$ 434.5 $$$$#1330516/11/05; 12:55:48

1) Will the Euro survive the recent French and Dutch votes ? Yes, maybe, I guess.

2) Do you believe the election was a positive, negative or neutral for GOLD?? Positive. Euro was shown to have feet of clay and not much of an alternative to the dollar. If gold is important enough to be able to support the Euro as a mark to market reserve, why not just own the gold and forget the paper promises?

3) If you believe it is a positive or a negative, how many $$$'s do you believe will be added or subtracted from the present price of GOLD???, Mucho, eventually. For now it all depends on much effort (gold) the central banks wish to expend to maintain the illusion. My guess is above.

4) Why???? The blow to the Euro was a blow to all paper money. There is now no safe place left to run.

Goldendome@ Ned ----The Price of Loyalty.#1330526/11/05; 17:12:20

Hi Ned: The copy I had was paperback. Bought it used for $2.00 plus shipping--about another buck, on-line. Check if you can online bookstores, etc. You should be able, I believe, to aquire a used hardback fairly resonably priced.
Best luck. A most enlightening and extremely detailed account of the first two years of Pres. Bush the Second.

GoldiloxThe Price of Loyalty#1330536/11/05; 17:19:44

@ Ned,

Alibris, my favorite used e-tailer, has a used hardbound copy for $2.95.

GoldiloxScript error#1330546/11/05; 17:20:58

Sorry, TC's script requires full URL
masRetirement?#1330556/11/05; 17:30:28

Before a new chairman is chosen, Greenspan must tackle an intimidating to-do list, said Peter Morici, a professor at the Robert H. Smith School of Business at the University of Maryland. Among other things, he probably would like to engineer a reacceleration in growth that doesn't rely so much on consumer spending and borrowing from overseas. That means rekindling domestic business investment, which could go a long way toward boosting overall productivity growth, Morici said.

Don't you just love that, "engineer a reacceleration in growth", with what? More debt?

Clink!The price of loyalty#1330566/11/05; 17:39:28

If memory serves me correctly, the book states that O'Neill was of the school that you established the facts, worked out the possible alternative courses of action and then, once the "best" one had been selected, called in the politicians to "sell" the resulting policy. As facts appear to have little import with the current administration, it must have led to some strange discussions.
I must admit that I came away from the book with the thought that O'Neill was a pretty straight-up guy. But then I tempered that with the thought that he had been surrounded by politics for many years, followed by a direct jump to corporate leadership (bypassing that messy "experience" stage) only to jump handily back to a political role. In other words, he has to be tainted goods. Maybe he had the integrity to stand up and be fired, or maybe he was just too inept to stay in office. Who knows, the book certainly wasn't going to tell us.
Sir Ned, I feel your pain at the checkout. Maybe I'm just lucky with my local library, but it's amazing how many of the books mentioned here are available. Heck, they even have a copy of Quigley's "Tragedy and Hope" (But I have promised myself not to get it out before I have finished researching the summer vacation - New England, here I come !! (Actually, this is going to be really confusing for me, the Brit, with all those familiar place names with completely different distances between them !)


TownCrierIranian gold#1330576/11/05; 17:43:45

TEHRAN, June 11--Some 3.5 tons of gold has so far been extracted from the Muteh Mine in the central province of Isfahan, said a senior mining industry official here on Saturday.

In related news, the Mining Exploration and Geological Organization of Iran announced Saturday that 200 tons of gold reserves have been identified in 30 locations across Iran. It said there are plans to develop the gold industry.

Iran is reportedly among Asia's top three countries in gold transactions.

India stands first in gold business in the world.

^------(from url)-----^

Apparently the reporter, in placing India first "in gold business in the world", doesn't figure that the 400+ daily tonnes of book transfers among the London bullion banks counts legitimately as "gold business".

And he's right.

If it ain't strictly a discrete (distinct) allocation or delivery of metal, it ain't really gold. Sorry London (& Co.), but truth be told, your operations make a mockery of the King of Metals and of its owners whom you claim to be servicing. So, just keep on winding down your daily figures and all's well that ends well. Cheerio.


Clink!Arlene and the Oil Storm#1330586/11/05; 17:45:01

Now what did I post just a week ago ? How far fetched is it to have a hurricane hit New Orleans ? Not very, apparently....

GoldiloxArlene #1330596/11/05; 19:05:43

Jim McCanney posted a warning of solar flaring two days prior to Arlene's formation.

I am not an atmospheric physicist, but after reading his "Principia Meterologica", it certainly makes more sense than "warm water currents cause hurricanes" from a conservation of energy perspective.

Last August, he posted a warning about huge solar flaring (during a so-called Solar minimum) and we saw four hurricanes in Florida and three that missed.

As an aside, he is planning construction of a low cost Tesla Tower - should be an interesting endeavor if it is not sabotaged.

HMMMMM . . .

Liberty HeadLoyalty - A wonderful trait in dogs#1330606/11/05; 19:26:02

Devotion to the truth - a rare trait in humans.

O'Neill's story will never be heard by the millions who need to hear it the most. They are too busy patrolling the fence,licking their masters and obedience training.

Don't be a debt ridden dog.
Own some gold.

Best Wishes

Golden Lionheart$$$$$$$426.20$$$$$$#1330616/11/05; 19:29:25

1. The Euro is such a well established currency that it will not be affected by the voting in France and Holland.
(but visiting Ellada I do miss the Drachma!)
2. I think the recent voting was completly neutral for gold.
3. n/a
4. n/a


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ THE "PRICE of GOLD" GUESSING CONTEST!! $$$$$$$$$$$$

Entries as of 6/11/05 at just about 21:00 Denver time !!!
About 27 Hours to go BEFORE Entry DEADLINE !!!!


Listed in order of decreasing values !

$$$$ $481.0 $$$$ djac (06/08/05; 20:32:34MT - msg#: 132962)

$$$$ $440.0 $$$$ Sundeck (06/07/05; 04:18:03MT - msg#: 132912)

$$$$ $435.5 $$$$ Chally (6/11/05; 11:08:47MT - msg#: 133047)

$$$$ $434.5 $$$$ Max Rabbitz (6/11/05; 12:55:48MT - msg#: 133051)

$$$$ $434.0 $$$$ Goldilox (6/9/05; 00:19:32MT - msg#: 132970)

$$$$ $433.3 $$$$ Gandalf the White (6/11/05; 00:39:40MT - msg#: 133037)
$$$$ $433.2 $$$$ Smeagol (6/11/05; 00:39:05MT - msg#: 133036)

$$$$ $432.9 $$$$ osa104c (6/8/05; 13:20:05MT - msg#: 132952)

$$$$ $432.4 $$$$ Liberty Head (6/8/05; 23:23:45MT - msg#: 132969)
$$$$ $432.3 $$$$ Federal_Reserves (6/6/05; 14:22:20MT - msg#: 132894)

$$$$ $431.5 $$$$ Felix the Cat (6/11/05; 01:32:32MT - msg#: 133039)

$$$$ $430.1 $$$$ commish (06/08/05; 20:47:37MT - msg#: 132963)

$$$$ 429.4 $$$$ The Hoople (6/10/05; 10:17:57MT - msg#: 133009)

$$$$ $428.8 $$$$ Topaz (06/07/05; 00:15:29MT - msg#: 132909)

$$$$ $427.3 $$$$ Rimh (6/9/05; 23:39:35MT - msg#: 132993)

$$$$ $426.2 $$$$ Golden Lionheart (6/11/05; 19:29:25MT - msg#: 133061)

$$$$ $425.8 $$$$ Rocky (06/10/05; 19:04:53MT - msg#: 133030)

$$$$ $425.0 $$$$ DryWasher (06/08/05; 18:17:47MT - msg#: 132959)

$$$$ $424.6 $$$$ Toolie (06/10/05; 19:49:48MT - msg#: 133031)

$$$$ $424.2 $$$$ slingshot (6/10/05; 09:12:57MT - msg#: 133000)

$$$$ $423.3 $$$$ nugget101 (6/8/05; 12:46:23MT - msg#: 132951)

$$$$ $418.1 $$$$ 2023 (06/07/05; 22:17:14MT - msg#: 132934)
$$$$ $418.0 $$$$ Zhisheng (6/8/05; 08:09:30MT - msg#: 132943)

mackattack$$$$$ 440.00 $$$$$$$$#1330636/11/05; 22:31:38

1) Will the euro survive?Well if the usd can so can any currency.The eeu has been worked on in dark doorways since 1957,they wont just give up the ghost on their dream.

2)The elections were dollar positve therefore not positive short term for gold but positive long term as many will now question the concept of holding solely a paper currency of questionable value.This has created uncertainty and that is gold positive.

3)This will lead to a 10 to 20 percent gain in p.o.g as many will hedge both euros and usd.The euro has been a drain on gold,but now that will reverse.

4)Simple there is one less place to put value into safely.Mistrust/uncertainty breeds gold buying.

mackattackopps $$$439.00 $$$$ 440 taken.#1330646/11/05; 22:33:16

opps make mine $$$439.00 $$$ 440 was taken
GoldendomeMore-- The Price of Loyalty#1330656/11/05; 22:37:44

Sir Clink: In PREVIOUS administrations that he had served, policy analysis by O'Neil and others was much as you previously described. Differing viewpoints or department opinionators would gather their information in what are called "Bradaeis Briefs" where total information is gathered for the President to study. At some time, the different points of view would be aired before the President (Nixon and Ford in particular, and Bush 1) in lively, yet friendly debate...the President offering opinions and questions throughout. The best policies to meet the facts presented could then be considered and promoted if desired in most cases.

Although not stated, I believe that part of the title of the book, "the education of Paul O'Neil" is derived from the startling realization gained over time by O'Neil, that the present administration was not interested in critical policy analysis! The insiders had an ideology and a determination to do things in a manner that fit the ideology. There was no interest in serious debate. The only information or facts desired and required were the ones that would back the predetermined agenda. The former Sec'y had the opinion that the President cared little to study information and issues, as his mind was preset on policy issues and cared very little for outside opinions unless he could use them for political leverage.

Interesting, that in the second four years, the President has strengthened the circle of "insiders" that Paul O'Neil mentions, while all of the outsiders, I believe, are gone.

I too, thought the description of O'Neil's resignation was classy. When informed that there were changes coming and he would be one, telling the Vice President to effect, "That's fine Dick, it's the President's right to have people serving that he wants." But, rather than saying the old cliche as requested by the Vice President, that he was resigning to be with his family (how many times have we heard that one in Gov't and industry in the last few years?) he, O'Neil would hold a press conference the following morning before the markets opened and announce that the President was making a change in his economic team and that he had been asked to resign. He told the Vice President that he had made it habit to tell the truth and that he wasn't going to start lying now. It was done his way!

Liberty Head: Yes, the Loyalty demanded was just about as you describe it in your post!!!

SundeckSundry...#1330666/12/05; 00:34:01

For Sir Liberty Head #133060:

"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
- Mark Twain

Ahhh...yes, Sir Liberty Head...few people want the is too hard to handle...better a soft and secure it has ever been. Alas, "leaders" know this trait of humans and exploit it with dire consequences..

Take care...


Caradoc$$$$ 443.00 $$$$#1330676/12/05; 00:34:02

The Euro will of course "survive" to the extent that over most of Europe it'll be the currency you need to pay for your breakfast. What won't survive is the perception that the prospect of European political unity somehow makes the Euro into something more than it is. Minus the "sizzle" of prospective political unity, people will begin to assess the Euro as simply a composite currency and any continued cheating by nations such as Italy and Portugal will now be reflected in the Euro's value rather than being ignored or, more precisely, being regarded as something to be solved after the political structure is in place.

For gold, as is already being experienced, the elections were positive in reducing expectations that the Euro or any paper currency can serve as a proper longterm of value. Call it a 20% increase in POG as translated into Euros.

I've accidentally covered some of the "why?" above, but the big reason why is that -- up until the elections -- some Europeans were so enchanted by the idea of becoming European first and only incidentally from a particular area that they were willing to grant the Euro higher status than it deserved.


Caradoccorrection#1330686/12/05; 00:38:07

Make that "longterm store of value." My apologies to the Table.


Belgian@ Towncrier#1330696/12/05; 02:10:33

Brian Bloom "Apophenia" at the neighbours : Is the "temporary" answer on your €-$ exchange rate remark (important indeed, Sir) !
Bloom is imvho understanding how the " gold-pricing " alternates in time. Hope this article inspires you. Regards, B.

masPredictions#1330706/12/05; 02:44:01

Heres the Privateers take on whats happening. Nothing that the media talks about of course, keep you in the dark and feed you s...., they do....

From The Military Front To The Economic Rear:
If the Middle East is the front-line for President Bush, his rear area is economic. Here, things look like an
escalating calamity. In true economic terms, the US is going nowhere. Real wages are not climbing, but
US consumer debts certainly are. The signal feature of the US internal civil go-nowhere economy is that
private credit and therefore private debts have exploded.
Outstanding private debt in the US has grown by 38% over the last four years to $US 36.2 TRILLION, an
increase of over $US 10 TRILLION. On top of that, the US Treasury is borrowing up a storm. The
Treasury's debt (otherwise known as the "national debt") now stands at a huge $US 7.775 TRILLION.
Borrowing From The World:
A very large part of all this borrowed money has, of course, stormed offshore to buy the delectable real
economic goods out there. That is shown by America's current account gap which has widened more than
expected in the fourth quarter of 2004 to a record $US 187.9 Billion, driving the full year US trade gap to
a new high of $US 665.9 Billion, according to the US government's own most recent estimates. The US
personal savings rate has fallen to 0.4 percent, the lowest since October 2001. These two items show
what the US economy is factually required to borrow from the rest of the world on a yearly basis.
The last five years have seen US consumer credit grow from $US 1,541 Billion to $US 2,122 Billion.
Over 2004, total US residential mortgage debt outstanding (MDO) grew by a staggering 13.2% to $US 8.7
TRILLION! That is a stupendous debt load of $US 10 TRILLION 822 Billion on American families.
More US Debt Ahead:
The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) is warning that the US current
account deficit will hit $US 900 Billion, or 6.7 percent of US gross domestic product (GDP), in 2006.
The Widening US Debt Trap(s):
An improved US trade performance, and robust home building, has helped the US economy expand at a
revised 3.5 percent annual rate in the first quarter, according to the US Commerce Department. But that
is of no force and effect in global economic terms. With the US economy expanding at 3.5 percent and its
external debts up by 6.7 percent, the US economy is actually marching, at speed, into a global debt trap.
The size of the trap is the difference between the economic "growth" and the debt growth, currently 3.2
percent annualised as scaled to the US GDP. US consumer prices in March rose a greater than expected
0.6 percent (or 7.2 percent annualised) according to the US Labor Department. That means that the US
internal civil economy is marching backwards even faster. A 3.5 percent increase in the US GDP
"minus" the 7.2 percent annualised increase in US consumer prices comes to a rate of economic speed - in
reverse - of 3.7 percent, again annualised.
The US economy is in both an external debt trap and an internal debt trap. There is no economically
painless way out of either of them. To stop the US economy from sliding even further into the external
debt trap would require more than the elimination of the 6.7 percent trade gap in the US GDP. The US
would need to swing into external trade surplus to the tune of about an additional 6 percent of the US
GDP so that the economy could earn enough in external trade and services to service its present $US 8.5
TRILLION in gross external debts. That's an enormous 12.7 percent turnaround required just to rebalance
the US economy with the rest of the world's national economies.
To re-balance the internal US economy would take a massive internal contraction of the current US credit
issuance rate. That would mean much higher US internal rates of interest, combined with either massive
increases in US federal taxes, or equally massive cuts in current federal spending to balance the budget.

goldenpeace$$$$$$$$432.7$$$$$$$$$$$#1330716/12/05; 05:28:27

1) The euro will survive...the economic union lives and after all the euro was created to diversify out of the $.
2)It's political difficulties are good for gold , though, since it refocusses the European mind on the problems with fiat currency...note we broke the longstanding 350 gold/euro resistance on a closing basis.
3&4)how much did this help gold's price?...hard to say, but enough to get it over resistance...European hedge funds may be buyers now, so the impact is still to come.
Blessings to our host and the community of this place.

slingshotmas#1330726/12/05; 06:26:04

I don't think it matters anymore how high the debt climbs. Lets face it that it is not a dinner time topic. The U.S. is a "Conditioned Nation",by this I mean as the populace meets each obstruction they will absorb it over time instead of dealing directly with the problem. An example of this is gas prices. Gas went over a dollar and not much later it became the norm. Todays gas price will become a way of life because they failed to properly deal with a known problem back then. Fresh water and food is just over the horizon. Where did this all begin? Over consumption. This, " I got to have it attitude". An image to uphold or I am not worth anything. Could it be as simple as the desire to give our children a better life with materialistic items and not teaching them respondsibility. The trap is if they do not, these materialistic (Name Brands) items are used as weapons by other children to draw social classing. Consumer Conditioning is driven by commercialism and marketing. Very dangerous. If you can condition a society to accept material items of your choice, political veiws are close at hand. It would be even easier if the society is driven into debt and as the markets collaspe become completly dependent on government.
In the Great Depession, greed and speculation may have been courses that cause it. The difference between then and now is that TPTB know it is going to happen and they are orchestrating the markets to a point that it will cause the greatest damage. To think that those who are retired on a fixed income from even 10 years ago are going to survive this happening without some form of inflation fighter or security investment. Just how must will those who retire in the next 10 years need to live. One Million? Two Million in FIAT? They are in a race against TPTB. To save enough before the End of Game.

News Report.

Today the Trade Defecit grew by more than 2 trillion.

Dinner Table.

Pass the salt and pepper, please.

Enjoyed the post, mas.

arbyh$$$$$$ 433.6 $$$$$$#1330736/12/05; 09:22:12

1) Will the Euro survive the recent French and Dutch votes ?....Yes, the Euro will continue and if it is the real money players plan for a euro, then it will just need more soft sell PR to the public. Whatever the big money wants ...they will get over time.

2) Do you believe the elections were a positive, negative, or neutral, for GOLD??..... The elections create uncertainty which is a mild positive for the POG. Most markets are pushed by big trades and not the general public so only mild.

3) If you believe it is a positive or a negative, how many $$$'s do you believe will be added or subtracted from the present price of GOLD??? 442 to where it is now
4) Why????.... As long as big money feels they have a handle on things and can push markets, Gold will move in a short range. If the large money feels they have lost control of ..all bets off hits 600 over night and pushes from there as pandoras box one wins.

Clink!$$$$$ 431.0 $$$$$#1330746/12/05; 09:22:46

I decided to save time by replacing the SWAG methodology which has completely failed me in the past with the simplified WAG methodology. The results will no doubt be identical, and I will have saved a few brain cells.

A challenging series of questions. I had been thinking of a suitable reply for several days and then, serendipitously, this “thought for the day” was posted at the Cafe this week :-

The destinies of peoples are determined by their character and not by their government. To lose time in the manufacture of cut-and-dried constitutions is, in consequence, a puerile task, the useless labour of an ignorant rhetorician. Centuries are required to form a political system and centuries needed to change it...Gustave Le Bon

I couldn’t agree more, but then I come from a country which has no written constitution.

To go back a little in history, the European Economic Community was set up to ease the difficulties of trade between the six original countries â€" whose main trading partners were the other five members. A long process of streamlining and standardization took place so that the rules governing the provision of goods were the same for all countries, and the cross-border paperwork was minimized. The final piece of the jigsaw was the EMU, leading to the euro, so that currency risk was also eliminated from dealings within the now European Union.

In other words, the main emphasis of the rapprochement has been to create a large, solid market INTERNAL to Europe. At this moment, most trade is between member states, and the external trade balance is neutral. Also, despite the “cheating” on the Maastricht Treaty by some of the member countries, the overall savings rate of Europe are such that the balance of payments is also neutral (Remember the phrase that was used in the US at one stage “We only owe it to ourselves”?). Further, the ECB has said on many occasions (reported at the Forum) that the euro has no particular international pretensions to rival the dollar.

The main reason that unified politics has taken something of a back seat is that, with the amazing diversity of political belief across the EU (most individual countries have elected representatives from more different political parties than the whole of the US House), and each country has such different circumstances, there is not a snowball’s chance in Hell of getting anything more than a very short, nebulous agreement past all the countries. Anything more is just the wet dream of some has-been political wonks looking for one last fling at tax-payer expense. The French and the Dutch said so, and the British, judging from the last European parliamentary elections are ready to say the same.

That very same political diversity says that it is very unlikely that there will be extreme political pressure on the ECB in any particular direction before it is balanced by pressure from the opposite side. Again, the ECB has repeatedly said that it has no political agenda, and that it’s function is to assure price stability. Not full employment, not global domination, not political union.

1) Will the Euro survive the recent French and Dutch votes ?
Of course it will. There’s nothing left to replace it with, and the cost of changing would be so great that it is now unthinkable. The vote had absolutely nothing to do with the currency. Will the Euro survive period, is another question entirely, and depends mostly on the balance of payments â€" at the moment it looks sustainable, and will probably be forced to be that way as long as the dollar retains the unique privilege of printing as many copies as it sees fit. If/when the dollar loses reserve status, all bets are off as there will be a race to fill the vacuum.
2) Do you believe the election was a positive, negative or neutral for GOLD??
Neutral, in the sense that it had nothing to do with economics.
I thereby get a pass on 3) and 4)


R Powell $$$$$ 426.7 $$$$$$#1330756/12/05; 09:33:18

Perhaps the US dollar's huge + ever growing useage throughout the world, in spite of any USA specific economics, has proven that a fiat currency's acceptance + value is no longer only supported by that country's (or union of countries) economic well-being. The Euro will not fade away due to internal strife.

If, as it now appears with all internationally used raw materials + storage-of-wealth vehicles (gold), the economics of this world are indeed global, then the POG will probably ignore the EU's petty political foolishness, just as it ignores most of mankind's follies. The temporary political difficulties caused by the EU discord will (in this writer's opinion) not amount to any more than a pee-hole in the snow as far as the POG is concerned. However, this writer has been know to be completely wrong more times than most people can count without using sophisticated counting machinery.

GoldiloxEQ @ 5.5 in San Diego county#1330766/12/05; 10:13:01

Short duration about 8:40am this morning. Shook the apartment some but was not long lasting.
USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.Hard assets, easy access!#1330776/12/05; 11:10:05">gold -- a global calling card
TownCrierBelgian, Thank you!!#1330786/12/05; 11:33:50

What a wonderfully evocative platter of brainfood. Thanks for the hearty meal!


Black Blade$$$$428.10$$$$#1330796/12/05; 11:37:33

Will the Euro survive? Good question. I have always questioned how a currency could remain viable given the large number of participants with differing political structures and cultures could agree on political and economic issues without affecting the common currency. The recent negative vote on the EU constitution only reinforces that view. The "no vote" by the French and Dutch resulted in a drop in the Euro's value against other global currencies. The differences between these countries and their peoples will very likely cause more frictions to surface over time and put more pressure on the Euro. So will the Euro survive? Probably but I doubt that it will be as an effective currency as had been hoped.

- Black Blade

968EU: Yuan be pegged to a basket of currencies.#1330806/12/05; 11:37:57

"I happen to believe that a more flexible exchange rate, one that's pegged not just to the dollar but to other currencies, including the euro, will be better for China," Mandelson said in an interview with the Associated Press.

The yuan-story continues...

SmeagolHappy birthday, America... wish you were here.#1330816/12/05; 14:21:40

(this is the full text of the linked article;
>>>emphasis ours<<<)

"Interim anti-money laundering rule issued for jewelry industry

JUNE 08, 2005 - Washington -- The U.S. Treasury Department's Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) has issued the Interim Final Rule of the USA Patriot Act, mandating that jewelry dealers establish anti-money laundering programs within their operations to deter criminal activity throughout the industry.

The Interim Rule, issued Friday by FinCEN, >>>goes into effect July 4<<<, while jewelry dealers have until Jan. 1, 2006 to comply with the final regulations.

Under the rule, dealers who buy and sell more than $50,000 in "covered goods" per year are required to implement >>>anti-money laundering programs<<< in their businesses. Covered goods include jewels; >>>precious metals<<<; precious stones; and finished goods, including jewelry, >>>numismatic items and antiques deriving over half their value from the metals<<< or gems they include.

Retailers who purchase their goods from dealers already covered by the rule will be unaffected, as will retailers who purchase less than $50,000 a year from non-U.S. dealers. Licensed pawnbrokers will also be exempt.

For 45 days following the rule's publication, FinCEN is soliciting comments on four specific aspects of the Interim Final Rule. Under consideration are >>>the inclusion of silver as a precious metal<<<, and the definition of precious stones and jewels.

Jewelers Vigilance Committee (JVC), which has been instrumental in crafting the Interim Rule, has developed a USA Patriot Act Compliance Kit to help dealers covered by the rule implement appropriate programs in their businesses.

For more information, visit:"

And the tyrant adjussts his grip...


Gandalf the WhiteTAA TAA TAAAAAAAAAAAAA -- ABOUT NINE HOURS to go !!#1330826/12/05; 15:08:29

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ THE "PRICE of GOLD" GUESSING CONTEST!! $$$$$$$$$$$$

Entries as of 6/12/05 at just about 15:00 Denver time !!!
Less than nine (9) hours before ENTRY DEADLINE at Midnight.


Listed in order of decreasing values !

$$$$ $481.0 $$$$ djac (06/08/05; 20:32:34MT - msg#: 132962)

$$$$ $443.0 $$$$ Caradoc (6/12/05; 00:34:02MT - msg#: 133067)

$$$$ $440.0 $$$$ Sundeck (06/07/05; 04:18:03MT - msg#: 132912)

$$$$ $439.0 $$$$ mackattack (6/11/05; 22:33:16MT - msg#: 133064)

$$$$ $435.5 $$$$ Chally (6/11/05; 11:08:47MT - msg#: 133047)

$$$$ $434.5 $$$$ Max Rabbitz (6/11/05; 12:55:48MT - msg#: 133051)

$$$$ $434.0 $$$$ Goldilox (6/9/05; 00:19:32MT - msg#: 132970)

$$$$ $433.6 $$$$ arbyh (6/12/05; 09:22:12MT - msg#: 133073)

$$$$ $433.3 $$$$ Gandalf the White (6/11/05; 00:39:40MT - msg#: 133037)
$$$$ $433.2 $$$$ Smeagol (6/11/05; 00:39:05MT - msg#: 133036)

$$$$ $432.9 $$$$ osa104c (6/8/05; 13:20:05MT - msg#: 132952)

$$$$ $432.7 $$$$ goldenpeace (6/12/05; 05:28:27MT - msg#: 133071)

$$$$ $432.4 $$$$ Liberty Head (6/8/05; 23:23:45MT - msg#: 132969)
$$$$ $432.3 $$$$ Federal_Reserves (6/6/05; 14:22:20MT - msg#: 132894)

$$$$ $431.5 $$$$ Felix the Cat (6/11/05; 01:32:32MT - msg#: 133039)

$$$$ $431.0 $$$$ Clink! (6/12/05; 09:22:46MT - msg#: 133074)

$$$$ $430.1 $$$$ commish (06/08/05; 20:47:37MT - msg#: 132963)

$$$$ $429.4 $$$$ The Hoople (6/10/05; 10:17:57MT - msg#: 133009)

$$$$ $428.8 $$$$ Topaz (06/07/05; 00:15:29MT - msg#: 132909)

$$$$ $428.1 $$$$ Black Blade (6/12/05; 11:37:33MT - msg#: 133079)

$$$$ $427.3 $$$$ Rimh (6/9/05; 23:39:35MT - msg#: 132993)

$$$$ $426.7 $$$$ R Powell (6/12/05; 09:33:18MT - msg#: 133075)

$$$$ $426.2 $$$$ Golden Lionheart (6/11/05; 19:29:25MT - msg#: 133061)

$$$$ $425.8 $$$$ Rocky (06/10/05; 19:04:53MT - msg#: 133030)

$$$$ $425.0 $$$$ DryWasher (06/08/05; 18:17:47MT - msg#: 132959)

$$$$ $424.6 $$$$ Toolie (06/10/05; 19:49:48MT - msg#: 133031)

$$$$ $424.2 $$$$ slingshot (6/10/05; 09:12:57MT - msg#: 133000)

$$$$ $423.3 $$$$ nugget101 (6/8/05; 12:46:23MT - msg#: 132951)

$$$$ $418.1 $$$$ 2023 (06/07/05; 22:17:14MT - msg#: 132934)
$$$$ $418.0 $$$$ Zhisheng (6/8/05; 08:09:30MT - msg#: 132943)

GoldiloxPUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT#1330836/12/05; 15:32:20


Office of the Spokesman
This information is current as of today, Sun Jun 12 2005 14:29:59 GMT-0700.


April 26, 2005

This Public Announcement is to alert U.S. citizens to the continuing unsettled public security situation along the Mexican side of the U.S.-Mexico border. This Public Announcement supercedes the Public Announcement of January 26, 2005 to update the information provided. It expires on July 29, 2005.

Violent criminal activity fueled by a war between criminal organizations struggling for control of the lucrative narcotics trade continues along the U.S.-Mexico border. This has resulted in a wave of violence aimed primarily at members of drug trafficking organizations, criminal justice officials and journalists. However, foreign visitors and residents, including Americans, have been among the victims of homicides and kidnappings in the border region.

A power vacuum within criminal organizations resulting from the imprisonment of several of their leaders along the Mexico-U.S. border continues to contribute to a deterioration of public safety in the region. In recent months, the worst violence has been centered in the city of Nuevo Laredo in the Mexican state of Tamaulipas, where more than 30 U.S. citizens have been kidnapped and/or murdered in the past eight months and public shootouts have occurred during daylight hours near frequented shopping areas and on streets leading to the international bridges. One of the shootouts spilled onto the Mexican side of the bridge itself. Four police officers have been killed in Nuevo Laredo since March.

Mexico's police forces suffer from lack of funds and training, and the judicial system is weak, overworked, and inefficient. Criminals, armed with an impressive array of weapons, know there is little chance they will be caught and punished. In some cases, assailants have been wearing full or partial police uniforms and have used vehicles that resemble police vehicles, indicating some elements of the police might be involved.

U.S. citizens are urged to be especially aware of safety and security concerns when visiting the border region. While the overwhelming majority of victims of these crimes are Mexican citizens, U.S. citizens nonetheless should be aware of the risk posed by this uncertain security situation. The vast majority of the thousands of U.S. citizens who cross the border each day do so safely, exercising common-sense precautions such as visiting only legitimate business and tourist areas of border towns during daylight hours. It is strongly recommended that red-light districts and neighborhoods where street drug dealing occurs be avoided.


Haven't seen this covered in the media. I guess it goes against their "business as usual" massage!

7nomads$$$$427.4$$$$#1330846/12/05; 16:25:13

1) The Euro will survive the recent French and Dutch votes because economic union is different than polictical union.
2) These elections were neutral for GOLD.
3 & 4) Therefore, this perceived weakness in the Euro is just a smokescreen for the coming revalueing of the Chinese currency. A 5% revalueing is being priced in (gold at 320 euros would be the norm, now it is to an ounce of gold to 352, just a coincidence?).

mdgc$$$$$ 436.00 $$$$$#1330856/12/05; 17:38:06

1)Will the euro survive the French and Dutch votes? It certainly will survive. As others have said, the monetary union can continue even if the drive to political union is delayed (but not over)

2)The elections were positive for gold. Uncertainly is almost always positive for gold.

3)Gold would seem to be about six dollars higher as a result of the votes.

4)$$$$$ 436.00 $$$$$

HOOSIER GOLDBUG$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ 430.50 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$#1330866/12/05; 19:23:09

1) The Euro will survive the recent French and Dutch votes because there is no turning back from an economic standpoint ad unity is required.
2) These elections were POSITIVE for GOLD, because they are unfairly looked on as weakness economically instead of just politically.
3) + $100 in the next 12 months!
4) GOLD getting on radar screen for all individuals everywhere in the face of all the smoke and mirrors economic picture.

Yellow Jacket$$$$ $426.4 $$$$#1330876/12/05; 20:06:57

1.Will the euro survive the elections? Yes they will eventually try another vote and accept it.
2.The elections were really neutral for gold
3.Gold will probably stay in a trading range this year due to tighter monetary conditions and higher dollar.
4.I think gold will move much higher in 2006 and beyond.

Dollar Bill.,.#1330886/12/05; 20:24:49

Euro lost its shot at competing with dollar.
Dollar faction is supreme. NWO rules.

Elections were a disaster for gold.

Gold will trade higher

Gold will rise in 2005 2006 closer to 500. But the NWO will be crushing it after that. When disruptions occur due to this transition to new model, gold will be facing new rules and restrictions. I think the time opening for gold for us is more limited than we are assuming.
I dont want to hit the submit button. Im just guessing of course, and you guys were kind enough to give your thoughts, so, despite anything, this is what I am thinking.

Shermag$$$$ 426.8 $$$$#1330896/12/05; 20:29:11

Yes, the Euro will survive the French and Dutch votes primarily because they were not a rejection of economic and political integration of Europe. They were a repudiation of the meddlesome bureaucratic intrusions delineated in the extremely weighty 450 page package of rules, restrictions and special privileges the Eurocrats had the temerity to call a constitution. They were a rejection of an elitist program imposed on them without their input. As well, the vote was an expression of their unease with the performance of the economy, as many votes become. Most Europeans understand that their future lies in closer ties to their neighbors, believing that economic dependence, and along with it political integration, subverts the urge to engage in destructive conflict. The outcome of the two votes does not threaten to terminate this understanding.

Ratification of this or any constitution in itself will not make the Euro strong. Although political integration is a prerequisite for a Euro that will replace the US dollar as a favored reserve currency, it is only one among other important ingredients, such as more open markets, primacy of property rights, minimal direct governmental economic activity, diminution of an oppressive regulatory regime, and scaling back the enormous social programs. The constitution, sadly, offered none of these. As such, the Euro will remain largely a regional currency, albeit an important one due to the size of the economies on its fold.

Consequently, the vote was mostly neutral, or at most slightly bullish for gold. The supportive effect for gold will be short lived.

timbervision$$$$427.7$$$$#1330906/12/05; 20:58:27

The Euro will survive the recent French and Dutch votes. In the short run these election results will be perceived as bad for gold, as gold has been seen to have a special relationship with the Euro. But the Euro and the dollar are probably not really in conflict with each other but part of an unfolding powers-that-be currency evolution, meaning, for the benefit of those powers. Gold will be the wealth holding medium for these giants, and so "nothing" will stop this "evolution." As for how much the current price of gold will move, its largely a guess. It could go either way. Any movement will be insignificant to the bigger picture.
GoldiloxWild Asian DX open#1330916/12/05; 21:25:51

Serious Coney Island action!
goldquest$$$$427.80$$$$#1330926/12/05; 22:30:03

I believe that the rejection of the EU constitution by the French and Dutch people, is the beginning of the end for the Euro.
The French had a 70% turnout for this election, a high number, indicating an emotional issue for the French citizens.
The Dutch had about a 63% turnout.

The proposed EU constitution states that passage of the constitution is not valid unless all countries of the EU ratify it.

There are already grumblings from some countries politicians, to return to their previous currencies.

Good for Gold? Yes! We are back to the only true item that has ever held it's value.

Gold will be going up no matter what the future may be for the Euro. It's demise will hasten the rise!

$525.00 by September 2005.

Buongiorno!$$$$$427.50$$$$$#1330936/12/05; 22:39:33

The Euro will survive recent votes, just as the dollar will survive many mistakes. Both are sisters, one younger and perhaps more attractive in some ways, but sisters still....and in the same business. As George Will put it, "The Euro represents an anthem no one sings and a flag no one salutes". He said something about leadership, but I forget--it was in the same vein.

Euro drop -off represents a fall from overbought situation. Happens all the time. The recent voting represents an example of the difficulty in getting together a bunch of quarrelsome socialists who really do not like each other very much. Or anyone else either. Am amazed they got this far. Best of luck for the future.

Gold. Ah, gold will go it's own manipulated way. Drifting higher, I would guess. Past year has about put me to sleep--lookout! Sharp moves ahead according to my sleep index!

OvS$$$$$417.9$$$$$#1330946/12/05; 22:47:02

Yes, the Euro will survive.
It was created as a safety-
valve for Western Society.
Or for global hegemony, if
you will.
How can this little incident
called French and Dutch re-
sistence be positive or nega-
tive when a governmental
trading group massages the
numbers for serious financial
I wouldn't seriously pretend
that I could put myself into
their head to guess the price
of gold, but there is a chance
that the price of gold will
have a quick drop; seven dollars
below 424 seems possible. There-
fore my guess of 417.9 is the
low guess, and if it should go
the other way, well, good for us.

spotlightDollar/Euro/Gold#1330956/12/05; 23:05:20

The world has discovered that the Euro is not a good store of value. They also have learned that when the Euro falls, the place to be is in the dollar. That has been "carefully taught" along with the "fact" that when the dollar rises gold falls. Those are the econmic "facts" of today.

However, there are other facts. Such as, a large part of the world that understands the value difference between paper and gold and who care nothing about what the rest of the world has been "carefully taught". Tonight, as there is a flight to the dollar, gold shorters have pushed gold down so far, $2.90. These are the chartists, speculators and uneasy long gold holders.

If it is true that a flight to quality is in progress, (out of the Euro) then a famous Alan Greenspan word comes into play. The word is "conumdrum." It is quite possible that the small, existing gold quantities are being gobbled up by those who trust gold over paper, but at a much smaller dollar volume than the volume of Euro sellers seeking dollars. The amount of available dollars are in the trillions, while the amount of real gold, (not paper gold contracts) is in comparatively limited suppy. In other words the "conumdrum" could lay in the fact that there could be a gold squeeze in the making even while the price is falling.

I would expect to see a rush into US bonds,lowering interest rates at the same time the US is losing its credit rating. This is the kind of economic world we live in today due to institutions like hedge funds owning contracts for more currencies or commodities (such as gold and silver) than exits. These contracts were bought from speculators who do not own the commodities or currencies, but are just gambling on the price, which affects the price of the real thing.

The old saying, "let the market tell you" no longer applies short term. First, the market has to rid itself of false "managed" or manipulated signals. However long that takes, in each case, will be the waiting period for the true market price . That includes the most important commodity signals we used to be able to depend on for guidance, such as, interest rates, currency rates, and gold and silver prices. These once dependable signals longer apply due to such market interference.

Goldendome$$$$$$$$ 429.70 $$$$$$$#1330966/12/05; 23:06:15

The Euro will survive the no votes on the Constitution. The politicians power grab is stymied, but not their paper money, thus far.

The no vote appears somewhat favorable for the price of gold as some may sell some Euros and look for something other than dollars. Perhaps $10.00 has been added to the gold price now.

I get suspicious when banks are saying gold will be higher, as they may be setting up the next pigions for their paper short capers. We would have more confidence if Big Money folks say they are buying and buying physical!

Gandalf the WhiteKeep those ENTRIES coming !!! #1330976/12/05; 23:39:20

Less than thirty minutes to the POG CONTEST Entry DEADLINE !



$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ THE "PRICE of GOLD" GUESSING CONTEST!! $$$$$$$$$$$$

Entries as of 6/13/05 at just about 00:01 Denver time !!!

Listed in order of decreasing values !

$$$$ $481.0 $$$$ djac (06/08/05; 20:32:34MT - msg#: 132962)

$$$$ $443.00 $$$$ Caradoc (6/12/05; 00:34:02MT - msg#: 133067)

$$$$ $440.0 $$$$ Sundeck (06/07/05; 04:18:03MT - msg#: 132912)

$$$$ $439.0 $$$$ mackattack (6/11/05; 22:33:16MT - msg#: 133064)

$$$$ $436.0 $$$$ mdgc (6/12/05; 17:38:06MT - msg#: 133085)

$$$$ $435.5 $$$$ Chally (6/11/05; 11:08:47MT - msg#: 133047)

$$$$ $434.5 $$$$ Max Rabbitz (6/11/05; 12:55:48MT - msg#: 133051)

$$$$ $434.0 $$$$ Goldilox (6/9/05; 00:19:32MT - msg#: 132970)

$$$$ $433.6 $$$$ arbyh (6/12/05; 09:22:12MT - msg#: 133073)

$$$$ $433.3 $$$$ Gandalf the White (6/11/05; 00:39:40MT - msg#: 133037)
$$$$ $433.2 $$$$ Smeagol (6/11/05; 00:39:05MT - msg#: 133036)

$$$$ $432.9 $$$$ osa104c (6/8/05; 13:20:05MT - msg#: 132952)

$$$$ $432.7 $$$$ goldenpeace (6/12/05; 05:28:27MT - msg#: 133071)

$$$$ $432.4 $$$$ Liberty Head (6/8/05; 23:23:45MT - msg#: 132969)
$$$$ $432.3 $$$$ Federal_Reserves (6/6/05; 14:22:20MT - msg#: 132894)

$$$$ $431.7 $$$$ Dollar Bill (6/12/05; 20:24:49MT - msg#: 133088)

$$$$ $431.5 $$$$ Felix the Cat (6/11/05; 01:32:32MT - msg#: 133039)

$$$$ $431.1 $$$$ Clink! (6/12/05; 09:22:46MT - msg#: 133074)

$$$$ $430.5 $$$$ HOOSIER GOLDBUG (6/12/05; 19:23:09MT - msg#: 133086)

$$$$ $430.1 $$$$ commish (06/08/05; 20:47:37MT - msg#: 132963)

$$$$ $429.7 $$$$ Goldendome (6/12/05; 23:06:15MT - msg#: 133096)

$$$$ $429.4 $$$$ The Hoople (6/10/05; 10:17:57MT - msg#: 133009)

$$$$ $428.8 $$$$ Topaz (06/07/05; 00:15:29MT - msg#: 132909)

$$$$ $428.1 $$$$ Black Blade (6/12/05; 11:37:33MT - msg#: 133079)

$$$$ $427.8 $$$$ goldquest (6/12/05; 22:30:03MT - msg#: 133092)
$$$$ $427.7 $$$$ timbervision (6/12/05; 20:58:27MT - msg#: 133090)

$$$$ $427.5 $$$$ Buongiorno! (6/12/05; 22:39:33MT - msg#: 133093)
$$$$ $427.4 $$$$ 7nomads (6/12/05; 16:25:13MT - msg#: 133084)
$$$$ $427.3 $$$$ Rimh (6/9/05; 23:39:35MT - msg#: 132993)

$$$$ $426.8 $$$$ Shermag (6/12/05; 20:29:11MT - msg#: 133089)
$$$$ $426.7 $$$$ R Powell (6/12/05; 09:33:18MT - msg#: 133075)

$$$$ $426.4 $$$$ Yellow Jacket (6/12/05; 20:06:57MT - msg#: 133087)

$$$$ $426.2 $$$$ Golden Lionheart (6/11/05; 19:29:25MT - msg#: 133061)

$$$$ $425.8 $$$$ Rocky (06/10/05; 19:04:53MT - msg#: 133030)

$$$$ $425.0 $$$$ DryWasher (06/08/05; 18:17:47MT - msg#: 132959)

$$$$ $424.6 $$$$ Toolie (06/10/05; 19:49:48MT - msg#: 133031)

$$$$ $424.2 $$$$ slingshot (6/10/05; 09:12:57MT - msg#: 133000)

$$$$ $423.3 $$$$ nugget101 (6/8/05; 12:46:23MT - msg#: 132951)

$$$$ $418.1 $$$$ 2023 (06/07/05; 22:17:14MT - msg#: 132934)
$$$$ $418.0 $$$$ Zhisheng (6/8/05; 08:09:30MT - msg#: 132943)
$$$$$417.9$$$$$ OvS (6/12/05; 22:47:02MT - msg#: 133094)

NOW, we await the COMEX Settlement on Tuesday (USA Flag Day) June 14th to determine the WINNERS !!

The Invisible Handex-EU's Delors vs Mundell#1330996/13/05; 02:30:12

Stephen King: The euro is unlikely to disappear, but its benefits are increasingly difficult to spot
13 June 2005
Following Robert Mundell's pioneering work in the early Sixties, a large body of literature about optimum currency areas has sprung up.
The euro itself is unlikely to disappear but the economic benefits that should have derived from its introduction may be increasingly difficult to spot; and the absence of those benefits may eventually imply that Delors' dream of living together in peace could turn into a political nightmare as nation states attempt to re-assert their independence.
Stephen King is managing director of economics at HSBC
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

TopazBeep ...Beep!#1331006/13/05; 03:32:43

The Bond Truck is clearly tyre-spinning in reverse here, desperate to keep within the rising up channel and knowing full-well to slip out means chaos.

PoG/DX maintaining their upward momentum as of this ...let's see how Gold reacts IF Bond confirms reversal today.

Belgian@ TIH#1331016/13/05; 06:08:21

Briefly : Europe was united behind the Dm...then progressively converged around the ecu...and now this new Euroland has its euro-CONCEPT (!!!) ...- CONCEPT - in place.

For the first time in six years, a Dutch CDA minister wished to inform the public about the fact that within this decade w'll have a global "energy-crisis" (or war if you prefer). The (non-nee) public should know that the euro-concept is architected to absorb this coming crisis !

Those who don't see the economic relevance of the euro (currency) now,... do have a very short (and selective) memory !
In what shape would old Europe be if we were still on a multitude of floating (and competing) currencies on the same continent !?

There is more than enough convergence around the euro-concept, and the purpose of this concept will become very visible (tangible) when the (global) energy-crisis smashes through the many doors.

Have you been reading 968 latest (Orient Express) post on China-EU relations !?

Knallgoldeuro/$#1331026/13/05; 09:16:32

"Euro lost its shot at competing with dollar.
Dollar faction is supreme. NWO rules.

Elections were a disaster for gold.

Gold will trade higher"---$Bill

The elections,or to be more precise,the vote,was a no to a European constitution and not a no to the euro.And,it was in my view a vote against NWO with its unification,forcing into line obsession.If its being respected by the leaders is Another issue,and these European leaders are notorious to ignore their people.I already heard voices of Schröder and Chiraq intending to continue the signing process for the constitution, as there would have been no vote,this alone is against the rules,and they even had the guts to say "we have to do this for the respect of democracy"-what a pompous arrogance of this dilettants!

European nations are still trading peacfully with each other,we don't knock our heads-member or not member of the EU.If everything fails we still can revive the EFTA (was in my view anyway the better alternative than the EU)

Almost everyone around the globe is against the US elite,not really the ideal prerequisite for $ faction supremacy.Besides that,the $ is an already stinking quasi- dead body.Even an euro with crutches can outrun it.

Gold:FOA said once,if the euro fails,Gold will go even higher (did anyone think 100'000$/oz?).
And,in his most probable scenario,there is also an euro devaluation inherent (3000-6000euro/oz.).$ devaluation is obvious in the 30'000$/oz. #.If the former has already begun is probably too early to tell.(Resistance is broken by appearing to fail a smart trader said on the other castle.)

The latter has begun,make no doubt.I hear targets for this $ bear rally (dead cat bounce) of 1.32 aginst the sFr. (now 1.27).It will run out of steam

If there is a point in the abstractness of a currency,it certainly is more so without a constitution.

GoldiloxGold rises to highest point against euro#1331036/13/05; 09:30:10;jsessionid=CHALQH2LLSPVWCRBAEOCFFA?type=goldMktRpt

LONDON, June 13 (Reuters) - Gold priced in euros hit its highest ever on Monday, rising above 356 euros an ounce, up 2.4 percent from Friday, on renewed fund buying.

Traders said gold also gained in other currencies as uncertainty in foreign exchange markets attracted buyers.

"It seems to be a continuation of Friday -- it is a resumption of that," a trader said.

Spot gold reached $428.00/428.70 an ounce on renewed fund buying by 1446 GMT, up from New York's late quote on Friday of $427.00/427.70.

Bullion prices have recently loosened a tight link with the dollar/euro, showing independent strength despite a stronger U.S. currency.

"I actually think that for the first time during this entire rally, you could argue that gold is genuinely benefiting from concerns people have about currencies," said Kamal Naqvi, precious metals analyst with Barclays Capital.

"The euro, which has benefited the most from the anti-dollar movement, has clearly got all sorts of major issues."

A firmer U.S. currency would normally put pressure on dollar-denominated gold as it becomes more expensive for overseas investors.Although gold has seen a near 80 percent rally in dollar terms since 2001, prices in euros have been contained in a familiar range for the past four years.
Analysts say a true bull market is when a commodity rises in all currencies.

"Certainly there would appear to be room for further upside in the gold price if the tight relationship between gold and the euro/dollar rate has broken down," Alan Williamson of HSBC said.

"Any further advance is likely to start triggering renewed momentum and technically driven buying," he added.

Traders said gold needed to clear current resistance to maintain upward momentum.

"If it can get through here, then it should plough up to $432," the trader said.


"Up, up and away!"

TownCrierIMF gold not option in G8 debt plan#1331046/13/05; 09:38:13

13 June 2005 (Reuters) -- The sale of gold held by the International Monetary Fund is no longer an option for funding debt relief for poor countries, [SA] Finance Minister Trevor Manuel said today.

"It is no longer on the table because a different route has been found," said Manuel, who was among representatives of developing nations to meet the G8 finance ministers in London.

"The issue of gold sales is now entirely academic," he told a news conference in Pretoria.

Manuel said the world's wealthy nations had committed themselves to finding other means of debt relief funding, pointing to a section of the G8 weekend communique which said it would be "met by the use of existing IMF resources".

Where existing IMF resources could not meet such need "donors commit to provide the extra resources necessary".

Manuel said this meant that gold sales was no longer an option.

After the weekend meeting British Finance Minister Gordon Brown, who championed the cause of debt relief, reserved the right to propose measures to fund debt relief with IMF gold in future.

^------(from url)----^

Euro softness coupled with the specter of IMF sales being put to bed has charted a course for higher euro-denominated gold, and well through the strong psychological resistance of €350. This bodes well for the physical market as Europeans tend to be more gold-minded than the American public to begin with, and now they have more obviously a euro-denominated price-trend basis of a bull market in gold to inspire their greater participation.

If gold leasing/lending is curbed, how will the market balance this new demand except with higher prices?

Quarterly Eurosystem mark-to-market revaluation of reserves is slated two-and-a-half weeks away,,,, good timing to strengthen the books with this hint of "free-er" gold.


GoldiloxWorkers, output returning after US Gulf storm #1331056/13/05; 09:52:57


June 12, 2005 16:53:03 (ET)

By Mark Babineck and Erwin Seba

HOUSTON, June 12 (Reuters) - Oil and gas activity in the Central U.S. Gulf of Mexico continued returning to normal on Sunday after the passage of Tropical Storm Arlene, which had prompted several precautionary shut-ins.

Major producers that reported evacuations and output stoppages at offshore platforms said on Sunday that workers and production were returning in Arlene's wake. Some companies began repopulating facilities late Saturday.

No significant damage was reported from Arlene, which sloshed through the U.S. Gulf for two days before making landfall on the Florida Panhandle on Saturday afternoon.

"We're in the process of sending our people back to our operations," Kerr-McGee (KMG,Trade) spokesman John Christiansen said. "Production is back up and online as the pipelines allow."

Some companies had not planned to shut output but were forced to do so because pipeline operators closed their valves. Pipelines were major casualties last September when Hurricane Ivan took a similar route through the Central Gulf, causing damaging mudslides on the sea floor.

Ivan cut 45 million barrels of U.S. oil production and was the most devastating storm in the industry's history, according to the U.S. Minerals Management Service. Arlene did not have nearly the intensity of Ivan, however.

Arlene's winds, which did not quite reach the 74 mph needed to become a hurricane, still spooked some pipeline and platform operators into shutting in late last week.

According to company announcements and industry estimates, at least 145,200 barrels per day (bpd) of crude output, or 8.5 percent of total Gulf production, were shut in on Saturday as Arlene passed through the Gulf. At least 682.5 million cubic feet per day (mmcfd) of natural gas production, or 5.5 percent of total Gulf output, was shut by the storm.

Most of it was expected back online by Monday, company officials said.

The Gulf of Mexico produces about 25 percent of the nation's oil and gas. In 2003, offshore crude production in the Gulf was 1.7 million barrels per day. Natural gas production was about 12.3 billion cubic feet per day.

The Louisiana Offshore Oil Port LLC was out of service for 18 hours because of the storm, but resumed offloading tankers on Saturday and was running normally on Sunday, scheduling manager Mark Bugg said.

The LOOP takes 900,000 bpd of crude from tankers in the Gulf, but Bugg said it had ample crude in storage to meet any refiner demand while offloading was halted.

BP Plc. ((BP.L)) and Unocal Corp. (UCL,Trade) said they were returning workers on Saturday. BP never reported any shut production, while Unocal said the 4,800 bpd it shut were flowing again on Sunday.

Along with Kerr-McGee, Shell ((SHEL.L)) ((RD.AS)), Marathon (MRO,Trade) and Exxon Mobil Corp. (XOM,Trade) said they were ramping up on Sunday.

"We are reboarding platforms, and we will do an assessment of any damage. If there is no damage, we will restart," Marathon spokesman Paul Weeditz said.

Anadarko Petroleum Corp. (APC,Trade) and Apache Corp. (APA,Trade) said they never took down any production.


one or two days precautionary outage, but not much damage.

TownCrier"Strong dollar" not reflected in a nominal easing of oil prices#1331066/13/05; 10:12:20

NEW YORK (Reuters) - World crude prices strengthened on Monday as dealers focused on strong global demand for diesel and eyed OPEC members ahead of their policy meeting in Vienna this week.

U.S. July light sweet crude was up 66 cents to $54.20 a barrel...

"The market accepts that OPEC is producing almost at capacity and there is very little it can actually do to bring down prices," Rob Laughlin at Man Financial in London said.

OPEC is already pumping well above formal quotas, so any increase to the official quotas will merely legitimize current overproduction.

Iran Oil Minister Bijan Zanganeh said OPEC was helpless as it was producing very close to full capacity.

"We are worried about it but we can't do anything," he said of the price. "Prices will remain high until 2006 or 2007 as there will be no excess capacity in the market until then."

^----(from url)----^

For your purchasing power to keep pace with natural (i.e., "real world") price valuations floating upon a sea of depreciating national ("paper") currencies, choose the natural ("real world") currency of savings -- choose gold. That is to say, crudely, that unlike digitally manufactured monies, gold is "OF" the world, and is therefore not apt to devalue against it.


USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.Helping you enter the gold market with grace and confidence#1331076/13/05; 10:30:52">Change paper into gold!
BelgianIMF#1331086/13/05; 11:04:49

The IMF debt relief initiative remains as UN-transparant as can possibly be. This debt debt forgiviness is NOT UN-conditional !!!
Indebted Madagascar has been wellcoming gold-explorers. Idem dito for Mauretania...Tanzania...
Shrewd Brown has not been giving a high profile to IMF-gold for "nothing" !!!
Add the WGC's statement (posted by TC) that gold (a good goldprice) is vital for those particulary indebted places (states-?).

This somewhat (temporary-?) free-er gold-price (yes Randy), evidences, AGAIN, that goldpricing is NOT a market driven fenomenon. Freegold, where gold-wealth can be marked to the market, needs a "real" Free goldmarket. We might be going a step closer to this "new" goldmarket with the breaking of 350 €/Oz...15 YEAR OLD !!!!!...resistance level !!!

But 350 €/Oz is hardly the beginning of the real "revaluation" of the wealth metal...but possibly a good incentive to start (continue) exploring/producing more gold as to keep freegold at bay.

No problem for the euro-currency, since it has gold-wealth-RESERVES, that are marked to the market. For the time being (!!!) only on a quarterly basis...and someday on a daily (permant) basis ! A euro-numeraire and gold without a constitution, but with citizens who are going to like the concept.

Simply watch how the price of oil is behaving increasingly free-er ! Oil owning states also wish to mark their oilreserves to the market !!! Let's have a "real" market driven oilpricing. Fair, no.

But it is not only gold or/and pricing should also be for floating currencies, interest rates, stockmarkets ! Over-regulation and intervention is a suicidal regime wich always leads to its other extreme as to restart the cycle.
We have (another) conondrum starting : Unjustified very low IRs and a rising goldprice in "all" currencies now !?
That's a break with the previous IR/Gold regime of the past 3 decades. Will this adjust in IRs rising with the goldprice ? Wait and see.

Knallgold : The "voting" public (referenda) is a VERY tricky (hazardes) business !!! An extremely fertile feeding bottom for all sorts of populistic opportunism (abuses).
Bear this in mind whilst pulling conclusions on these votes.
Perception balloons are very often Zeppelins filled with inflammable hydrogen gas.

Very low "growth" and increasing debt in the Western hemisphere, is an explosive mixture. The approaching energy crisis will make the situation such that w're gone need a lot of cool heads instead of "populism" !
And please, do remember that it is NOT about the euro as a "currency" but everything about the gold-concept behind it ! Populists like to produce convenient amalgams as to easely confuse the masses. Standard procedure.

Black BladeGold: Surges and delinks dollar#1331096/13/05; 11:31:58


The precious metal appears to be distancing itself from the normal correlation to the greenback, encouraging traders to buy into gold.

Black Blade: It was only a matter of time before the US Dollar delinked from Gold. The supply-demand fundamentals for the precious metals remains very strong and even more so at this time of growing concern over market "bubbles".

The CoinGuyI will mention....#1331106/13/05; 12:21:13

Lot's of attention on euro gold. Which is understandable in this forum. Although, I'd imagine the Jipangu group isn't exactly upset. Gold is breaking out in Yen as well.



Black BladeThe overlooked $2.3 trillion deficit#1331116/13/05; 12:24:36


If the government were held to the same standards as public companies, its accounting methods would make Enron's misdeeds pale in comparison. Here's how they obfuscate the truth.

Blessed by historical habits that have no relationship to what our government does today, our legacy of cash accounting now serves to mislead and confuse. The April issue of Economic Indicators, a publication prepared by the Council of Economic Advisers, for instance, projects a unified budget deficit -- the one that lumps the Social Security surplus in with the rest of government -- of $427 billion. (New reports this week that we may be on track for a smaller deficit don't change the fact that the accounting methods are misleading. We'll stick with the $427 billion figure until they make the new estimate official in midsummer.)

The $427 billion deficit, however, is a massive understatement of our true deficit. The real deficit is $2.3 trillion larger. That's more than five times the publicly discussed $427 billion figure -- but it never enters public discussion.

If the executive branch of government were held to the standards of Sarbanes-Oxley, it would be on a fast track to a criminal trial. We would forget about Ken Lay because the crimes at Enron are mere rounding errors compared to what our government does.

Black Blade: Add to this the "off budget" items and the national debt exceeds $14 Trillion. Then there is the current account and trade deficits that put additional pressure on the US dollar. So as other global currencies decline against the dollar there is only one available option for consumers (indeed all of us bi-pedal hominids) to protect our collective ass-etts, and that is the only currency with intrinsic value - Gold!!! The only real "portfolio insurance" for us is in the precious metals. (check out the CPM treasury at the castle).

Black BladeGold up, dollar up: what does that tell you?#1331126/13/05; 12:32:17


Over the past two weeks or so there has been an inversion of the law that says the price of gold tracks the euro against the US dollar. Gold now seems to have detached itself from the value of the euro, and is rising alongside the dollar. What does this new relationship mean?

Black Blade: More talk of the decoupling of Gold-US Dollar. Meanwhile, gold miners simply do not have the ability to significantly increase production for rising demand. They have neglected exploration programs and most are only growing through acquisition of smaller miners. My friends in the Gold fields tell me they are re-examining old shelved projects several years old. Remember that it takes anywhere from 5-7 years to bring a new mine online - and that after years of wrangling with regulators and grass roots exploration efforts. Of course we don't have to worry about that as we can simply raid the castle treasury for a fair price and avoid all that messy digging in the ground). ;-)

USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.Second Chance at U.S. $10 Liberty Coins!#1331136/13/05; 12:38:29

Our June Buyers' Group on $10 Liberties last week proved to be quite the deal and was extremely well received. It took a mere 36 hours to sell out of the original lot, leaving a number of you asking for more.

Due to this overwhelming response, we sent our supplier back into his vault and were pleasantly suprised to hear this morning that he could make another 75 coins avaiable, FOR THE SAME PRICE!

Yes, that's right. Although gold has moved up nicely since the original offer sold out, you can still purchase these coins for the same price as originally offered.

Given the demand we experienced for these coins last week, we don't expect these additional 75 coins to remain beyond today. And after these are gone, that's it for this fantastic deal.

Click the URL above for more details, or feel free to call our trading desk to place your order for additional savings.

1-800-869-5115, Extension 100

Black BladeFor Whom The Euro Tolls#1331146/13/05; 13:13:06


European Companies With Few Operations In The U.S. Will Be Helped By The Currency's Slide. Others Will Be Clobbered.

Black Blade: In light of the "Gold Contest" question.

968BIS : Banks wading deep into debt markets.#1331156/13/05; 13:13:24

BASEL, Switzerland (AFP) - International banks are wading deep into debt markets to the detriment of traditional lending, a Bank of International Settlements (BIS) report says.

The bank also noted Chinese banks had repatriated 16 billion dollars from off-shore British and US accounts in the final quarter of last year, which it attributed to changes in Chinese banking regulations rather than abandoning the sagging dollar.

With bond markets continuing to grow, BIS said the amount of bonds held by international banks had quadrupled between 1995 and 2004, rising from 604 billion dollars to 2.4 trillion dollars.

The BIS said growth was particularly strong in issuing of bonds in the eurozone and by emerging countries in their local currencies, with Poland the most successful of the emerging countries by placing three billion euros in bonds.

The Basel-based BIS said Chinese and Korean banks repatriated a massive amount of funds held abroad in the fourth quarter of last year, leading to a net inflow of capital in the countries.

It said Chinese banks brought home 16 billion dollars they had held in offshore British and US accounts.

The BIS said much of this was likely due to new Chinese banking regulations that went into effect last July limiting the activities of foreign banks creating new lending opportunities for Chinese banks.

Korean banks repatriated seven billion dollars from off-shore centers, but then placed six billion in British, Swiss and US banks.
See URL for full report :

Chris PowellBlanchard drops MorganChase from gold price rigging lawsuit#1331166/13/05; 13:54:50

Suit apparently continues vs. Barrick Gold.

Latest GATA dispatch.

To subscribe to GATA's dispatches, send an e-mail to:

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TownCrierIs this a slight sign of focus shifting toward euro as a significant numeraire?#1331176/13/05; 14:09:08

DOW JONES NEWSWIRES -- In a repeat of Friday, gold futures shook off a stronger U.S. dollar to post gains Monday on technical strength as the cash market remained above 350 euros, traders said.

August gold settled up $1.80 to $431.10.

A trader said gold generally remained technically strong after cash metal climbed through the 350-euro area on Friday.

"It's just holding its strength despite the dollar," he said.

"The focus does seem to be on the gold price in euro terms," said Bernard Hunter, director of precious metals with Scotia Mocatta.

Cash gold got up to roughly 356.75 euros, he said.

"It's been above €350 all day," he said. "That's a psychological level. And we broke that (previous) high of €355.80ish."

But while gold has drawn decent buying lately, said Hunter, the cash market needs to break above $430 in a meaningful manner to maintain upside momentum.

August gold got as high as $432.60, its strongest level since May 6.

^-----(from url)----^

Changing times? In the mainstream media we didn't used to see a focus given to the price of gold as expressed in anything except dollars.


USAGOLD Daily Market ReportPage Update!#1331186/13/05; 14:24:15">
The Daily Gold Market Report has been updated.

If you are considering investments in gold we invite you to">request our free introductory information packet detailing the products and services offered by USAGOLD ~ Centennial Precious Metals. We welcome your inquiry and look forward to working with you.

Monday Market Excerpts

Gold extends rally, decouples vs. dollar

June 13 (from MarketWatch) -- Gold continued its bull run Monday, setting a new five-week high in the face of a stronger dollar. COMEX August gold futures rallied $1.80 to finish at $431.10.

At its best level, the contract touched $432.60.

"Gold's ability to resist the sharp rise in the U.S. dollar is causing both a short covering rally and new fresh long positions to be added," said Peter Grandich, strategist at Grandich Letter.

The dollar struck a nine-month high against the euro on Monday, benefiting from hopes for more U.S. rate increases and a hint from a European Central Bank official that the ECB could cut its rates.

Gold has continued to detach itself from the dollar and euro, which it had tracked over the last four years, as traders who had anticipated further price declines were forced to cover their short positions, according to James Moore of

Gold posted solid gains last week, advancing 0.9% to close at a one-month high despite the dollar's rally against its major counterparts.

Some traders said the recent decoupling of gold and currencies also showed gold's traditional status as a safe haven has returned to favor as inflation concerns are creeping back on to investors' radar screens.

The continued rally in gold was further driven by news over the weekend that G8 countries had reached agreement to write off the debt of the world's 18 poorest countries without using gold.

-----(see url for full news, 24-hr headlines)----

TownCrierSecond-chance at Liberty special has come and gone.#1331196/13/05; 15:05:54

Jonathan informs me that the additional 75 coins were eagerly snatched up by investors within two hours.

Congrats to all who partook in this monthly installment of the Buyers' Group.

Until next time, don't be shy about calling to inquire about interim offers and diversification opportunities with great pricing on a wide selection of gold coins and bullion through USAGOLD-Centennial Precious Metals.


CoBra(too)Gold further de-coupling rom the US-$ today!#1331206/13/05; 16:11:51

Gold reaching new highs vis a vis the € and the Yen today add more credence to the BO last Friday in €-terms. Dollar again was surging strongly against its main competitors today; Still gold was going higher even vs the greenback!

I understand that the japanese public were heavy sellers of bullion (40Moz) today, which seems to support this assumption; At least from a contrarian view.

Over the weekend I've digested quite a few analysts commenting on the €/Gold move as being the long awaited, and in some cases expected gold move, against all fiat currencies to establish a probably generational gold bull market in its true reality.

Well, it's not really dreams come true for us gold advocates; It's more like the - sometimes even dreaded - end result of a monetary system, which was primarily based on promises, false assumptions and in effect on debt alone.

... and debt only can survive by more debt, almost by definition, this was played out to the extreme - and most of the rest of the globe was either happily playing along, when opportune, or playing along in lack of alternatives , or even playing along in fear of consequences.

In all fairness, all of the above is understandable, as the whip of IMF/WB have domesticised some major tigers, wolfes and even sharks. Meanwhile they seem to have "farmed" crocodiles, cobras and skunks in form of leveraged food supplies for hedge beasts. Beasts, which at some stage will go against their trainers - (not as in - Radi was a circus lion, Radi had a lady trainer - radiator; That'll prolly be too simple) - as the exits for the trainers become too narrow to escape their own overindulgance in, lastly complacency. - The Siegfried and Roy ploy may serve a warning lesson; To tame the beast you've got to be either one or dominate it totally.

The former is happening again with a pseudo kind of free trade, id est globalization on false and utterly mad assumptions, while the latter never has been achieved for any prolonged time ... in history; The history of empires in whatever guise have failed.

... Are we again watching the collapse of an empire? The empire of the US-Dollar Reserve Standard, which may take the rest of former (relative)free and industrialized West with it down the tubes? Only to see a new empire "RE"-emerging in the far East, which has been around as a civilized world long before the Europe's ancient Greece and Roman culture has arrived - and its belated offsprings in the northern Occident, the feed stock for the USA!

Oh, sorry - didn't want to get philsophical - effects of the ubeski - BTW the official Finnish word for water of life - id est whisky keg - Cheers cb2

Dollar Bill.,.#1331216/13/05; 16:45:53

I cant see this price rise as a sign of collapse.
canamamiGold/US$ decoupling and Blanchard lawsuit#1331226/13/05; 17:01:00

Is it possible the two are linked?

In any event, it will be interesting to see if the action against Barrack proceeds.

Is it possible that some money which had viewed the Euro as a safe haven is now finding its way to gold, as the Euro's prospects seem to be dimming for now?

SmeagolSmart Chinese Woman#1331236/13/05; 17:47:44 of a great many, we assumes... we wonders how much of It she has set aside...

"In the meantime, Chinese like Zhang remain skeptical that the authorities can provide a safety net that would allow them to abandon their caution. "It is ridiculous that the government encourages people to spend money," she said. "We can't be fooled by the government.""

She would fit right in, here at the Table Round.


The Invisible Handnumeraire#1331246/13/05; 18:15:55

What does that mean, numeraire?

The French Nouveau Petit Le Robert dictionary defines it in its didactic sense as that which serves to count and the dictionary gives the example of the "pieces numeraires" which were used to establish distances on the road.
The dictionary gives also a second definition, this time in the sense of "especes numeraires". Here it means moneyed pieces (as opposed to scriptural money). Since 1729 it means metallic money and, by extension, any money which has legal tender.

In paragraph 5 of Chapter XIV of Human Action, Mises defines it as an ethereal and undetermined unit of accounting of that vague and undefinable character which the fancy of some economists and the errors of many laymen mistakenly had attributed to money. Mises continues in paragraph 5 of chapter XVII by saying that money is neither a numeraire nor a standard of value or prices. It is necessarily an economic good and as such is valued and appraised on its own merits, i.e., the services which a woman expects from holding cash.

Is numeraire then fiat money?

Gandalf the WhiteTHE "KING OF THE HILL" on Monday is -----#1331256/13/05; 18:29:19

Sir Clink! <;-)
$$$$ $431.1 $$$$ Clink! (6/12/05; 09:22:46MT - msg#: 133074)
Hang on Sir Clink!
We will know tomorrow.

mackattackDecoupling proves Sinclairs incompetence#1331276/13/05; 18:58:53

Not once did Sinclair say gold would decuple from the dollar.His understanding of this market has been so wrong and simplistic as to be ridicilous.He promised 480 by august 2004 and to shut down his harmful site.He didnt,he said gold stocks would soon set your hair on fire many months ago,they didnt,unless you mean losses!He said gold is tied to the dollar,it isnt.It is time to face the fact that Sinclair mislead the market for his own profit and that he most likely makes most of his money shorting while screaming ridiculously bullish statements.This time as gold stocks rise,we will unleash an unholy fury of selling.The 70's were a fluke for Sinclair before the manipulation,he simply fluked out.In this gold market almost anyone can call the market better than him.Im here to remind the gold community of the blatant betrayl of embry and sinclair of the gold bugs to the powers that be.They simply delivered us to the slaughter,knowingly and with intent.They were paid off by their profits shorting the very stocks they stocks you to buy.Either buy physical or ignore embrys or sninclairs advice.If you had listened to them you would have lost more money than a nadsog crash and that isnt easy to do.Stop trusting these money hungry wolves who could care a aless about you or your family and try and remember embry and sinclair work hand in hand with the banks.They are the wolves in sheep clothing and the losses they have dished upon the gold community are disgraceful and astounding.So much so a retard could pick better than them.Ignore them and make your own will lose far less.Buy physical gold stocks are a scam and embry and sinclair are the front pretending to be on your side while they fleece you.Return unto embry and sinclair as they have done unto you.Their record in the last 2 years plus...pathetic!!This is a warning to the newbies,when an analcyst says buy,then sell.They make their money betraying the community and then shorting.Dear mr Sinclair you havent said anything noteworthy or profitble in years ,what did the cartel offer you?Embry has an excuse he is owned by the banks.Buy physical and ignore these buffoons.Track their picks,a 2 year old could do better.Accept them as they are ,humans who know no more than you so they betray to make profits.Im still waiitng for sinclair to take down his informationless,decpetive,cant make any profit take your french curves and put them where website.The fact these guys are tolerated shows any bull run is far away.The real gold bull begins when the useless, cant make a dime on my pick analcysts are gone.Produce or hit the road!We wont forget Mr Sinclair but i enjoy laughing myself into tears now as i read your useless website!
GoldiloxRage attack!#1331286/13/05; 19:12:05


Wanna tell us how you really feel?

Whew, it's warm in here.

GoldiloxNorth Chilean EQ @ 7.9#1331296/13/05; 19:15:43

Isn't this in a region where there are many miners?

7.9 is a nasty one!

GoldiloxPowerful earthquake shakes northern Chile#1331306/13/05; 19:20:27


A powerful earthquake with a magnitude of 7.9 shook the northern mining region of Chile earlier today (AEST), causing power cuts and driving residents from their homes in the heavily populated city of Iquique.

Acting Interior Minister Jorge Correa said on Chilean television that one person was confirmed dead in a landslide triggered by the earthquake.

Local authorities said the region suffered power cuts and telephone communication was down in the area.

"We are evaluating the situation minute to minute," one official from Chile's national emergency centre ONEMI said.

Local television reported that the cities of Iquique and Arica were the most affected by the earthquake, also felt in Peru and Bolivia.

The US Geological Survey said the earthquake's magnititude meant it was capable of widespread and heavy damage.


I was right about the mining region.

GoldiloxLargest recorded EQ in Chile 1960#1331316/13/05; 19:25:32


First Place Honors
The honor of greatest earthquake of all time goes to the 1960 Chile earthquake because scientists were able to catch this one on tape. In other words, there have been a lot of really big earthquakes throughout human history (and even greater ones before we came on the scene), but this one they were able to measure, record and verify it's ground motion strength. The instruments that seismologists use to measure earthquake magnitudes are designed to detect the amount of energy released by the movement of the ground during a quake. In the case of the Chile earthquake, the amount of energy released during the quake, not the number of human deaths and damage to structures, earned it the title of greatest.
The epicenter of the earthquake (the point on the earth's surface directly above the focus of an earthquake) was 60 meters down below the ocean floor about 100 miles off the coast of Chile out in the Pacific. The nearby towns of Valdivia and Puerto Montt suffered devastating damage because of their closeness to the center of such a massive quake. The loss of human life was not as bad as it could have been because there were large foreshocks that sent people into the streets talking.

About 30 minutes after the foreshocks, when the main jolt came, many people were still outside calming their jitters from the first shock. The buildings and homes that fell had pretty much vacated. However, damage cost estimates were over a half billion dollars.

Not only was there damage to man-made structures during the quake, but the earth itself was forever changed by the enormous amount of energy released from below. Huge landslides, massive flows of earthen debris and rock, were sent tumbling down mountain slopes. Some landslides were so enormous they changed the course of major rivers or dammed them up creating new lakes. The land along the coast of Chile, particularly in the Port city of Puerto Montt, subsided (sunk downward) as a result of the movement of the ground during the quake and the coastal city was flooded with ocean water. (See below, left).


Today's 7.9 was not that big, but it may prove to be tragic in the coming hours.

SmeagolAs far as we're concerned...#1331326/13/05; 20:20:17

..."numer-AIR-e" pretty much defines itsself. (grin)


knotakareRe: Sinclair#1331336/13/05; 20:45:06

When the gold stocks zoomed in 2001 and 2003, it was easy to see they sent the wrong message to the markets.

Sinclair is a true beliver in gold. and he is right. but he can't control the boyz who short the heck out of the stocks. He can't make miner stocks go up, and a pro knows this. When you buy mining stocks, your taking a calculated gamble.


PRITCHOLATEST ON GOLD - - Richard Russell (With comments on who's selling after the close!)#1331346/13/05; 20:53:29

Richard sheets it home to the Fed - -see end comment

"Gold -- With gold breaking out in terms of the weakening euro, there's now an incentive for Europeans to buy gold. Friday, for the first time in months, gold rose sharply in the face of a stronger dollar. Today again, with a stronger dollar, we're seeing gold rise. The indication here is that gold is beginning to be accepted as an alternative currency.

After all, what are the alternatives? You have the euro which is backed by no single nation or if you prefer, by an "un-united" Europe that is near recession. You have the yen, which is backed by a nation that is deflating and yet grinding out billions in new yen, and you have the US dollar, which is backed by the world's biggest debtor. As has been said so often, gold is the only money that is not someone else's liability. Gold is pure intrinsic money, money that is outside the global system run by the central banks.

The daily chart below of HUI, the "gold-bugs" index, shows a "head-and-shoulders" bottom having formed, and a breakout is now in the process of occurring. Note that HUI is now well above its (blue) 50-day moving average."
"Gold looking better but still appears to be struggling, but at least at present it's struggling HIGHER. The surest thing in the market is that gold in the aftermarket will be down. Who's selling gold down after the close? We'll probably never know. I'll bet it's some clerk at the Fed."


*CAN U SAY MANIPULATION? - -It doesn't get plainer than these comments from a Market Professional

"CONCLUSION -- It's a strange market. It seems like every day the market moves up early, and then they sell if off later in the day. But even with the sell-off, the market closes higher. It's not the kind of market that I like, but it's all we have, so respect it -- no, better still, learn to love it."

GoldiloxThe Expectations Game - Peter Schiff#1331366/13/05; 22:11:56


Coming in at $3 billion less than some had feared, today's release of April's $57 billion trade deficit is being heralded as good news. The fact that the fourth worst monthly deficit ever is considered good news is startling evidence of just how far the bar has been lowered when it comes to America's deteriorating trade imbalance.

If America's monthly trade deficits continue at the "benign" level of 57 billion for the rest of the year, the annual 2005 deficit will top $685 billion, 11% higher than last year's record $617 deficit, and approximately 6% of GDP. On a per capita basis, that equates to about $2,300 per person, or $9,200 per family of four. That literally means that the typical American family will go $9,200 deeper into debt to the rest of the world, or almost 20% of average household annual pre-tax income. That is on top of the approximate $40,000 the typical family already owes the rest of the world. Were the trade deficit to continue at its present level for another 10 years, (an optimistic assumption given that it would require the deficit to stop growing), the typical family of four would owe approximately $150,000 to the rest of the world. If by that time interest rates were to rise to 8%, that would equate to monthly payments abroad of approximately $1,000 per household.

Though the dollar may have rallied against other fiat currencies is reactions today's "positive" data, it fell against gold. More importantly, priced in euros, gold broke through the 350 euro per ounce level for the first time ever, trading as high as 352 euros per ounce, up two percent for the week, and up 6% over the last three weeks. As I wrote in my commentary last week (available on my web site at, surging gold prices could force the ECB into a surprise rate hike, reversing the dollar's recent strength, and throwing the world's financial markets into turmoil.


The "calm before the storm?"

TownCrierGoldilox, Peter Schiff says...#1331376/13/05; 22:50:57

"As I wrote in my commentary last week, surging gold prices could force the ECB into a surprise rate hike..."

I wonder what it is that makes Peter Schiff believe that the ECB would put singular significance on gold price suppression as a possible policy goal to outrank its highly publicized price stability mandate measured more generally as conditional against HICP inflation. (??)

Why does Schiff favor blowing smoke in this regard?


GoldiloxSingular Significance#1331386/13/05; 23:25:03

@ TC,

I don't really read it that way, but more as a collection of effects. If the ECB feels a tide growing and wishes to stem the fall, they might raise rates to slow the rapid revaluation.

. . . and then again it could be smoke!

TownCrierGoldilox, a metaphor for your consideration#1331396/13/05; 23:45:13

A dusty canvas is discovered by a monk while clearing up some cluttered nooks of an old Italian abbey.

Upon unrolling the item, what had once been an underpriced and underappreciated scroll by the hand of Leonardo da Vinci is now suddenly the focal point of a singular price explosion as it is revealed to be a greatly desirable asset in the light of day.

Why should a central banker fret at a revaluation of a singular underappreciated asset such as this? Who would argue the case that it somehow makes a poor reflection on the currency of the realm?

What am I missing?


Goldiloxda Vinci rug#1331406/14/05; 00:05:23

I think what we're disagreeing on amounts to "cause and effect"

The gold/euro rise is an effect.

The euro's "fall from political grace" is more the cause.

Although euro manufacturers wanted to see the euro's rapid rise haltd, they probably don't want a waterfall correction, either.

TopazThe Euro is Dead! ...long live the EURO.#1331416/14/05; 00:27:38

Gold: We've seen a bit of a flurry lately lifting June total to a shade under 11K, SO...NOW we run on Vapour 'till August and that SHOULD be enough to put the de-couple on the back burner for at least a few weeks.
COMEX/Access is SUCH a pull on PoG at present that Spot has lost a lot of it's relevance imo.

Bonds: ...are REAL interesting right this minute!

Euro: perhaps N-euro? or E-unit-y? ...but she needs to get to parity ..."then" the Marquis of Queensbury rules kick in methinks.

The Invisible HandAusgebrochen?#1331436/14/05; 02:10:23

Gold closed Friday in London at Dm 683.04 (€349.23). This compares to Dm 689.31 (€352.44) achieved on the New York close. While this latter price was a record high for gold in terms of the euro (which is less than 5-years old), it was not of course a record high in terms of the mark. As we can see from the above chart, there was no breakout from the huge basing pattern being formed (the saucer formation on the chart).
To breakout from this pattern, gold needs to close above Dm 706.31, the price it reached on July 30, 1993. This price equals €361.13. We are almost at that level, but 'almost' is not enough. Gold needs to break above €361.13 to give a clear signal that it is in a new uptrend against the euro, and I expect this breakout will happen soon.
Title was "Broken out?"

Topazalt-currency Gold.#1331446/14/05; 05:07:02

As mentioned earlier, the end of the beginning might be at hand here. PoG, from late Mar to "yesterday" has done blot in $ terms but in alts has out-performed ...with the glaring exception of that Mini-me, Freak-Show Aussie Dollar.
Bonds have managed to eke out a small increase across-the-curve this am so I'll err on the side of caution and declare this particular Deflationary Collapse (and concurrent Gold Breakout) ...OVER!

DX needs to scurry back to sub85 (where it belongs) before June 30 ...don't mistake the NEXT $Gold uptick for anything more than Status-quo.

arbyhTrade Imbalance question#1331456/14/05; 09:08:50

Someone wrote yesterday about quantitative amounts of trade imbalance and equated it to each person and family's debt. My question is this: When I purchased that made in China shiny piece of crap gizmo off the shelf of walmart and paid cash for it, where did the cash go? I already paid the asked how do I owe anything? Doesn't the payment for the gizmo flow freely to China, or does the USA syphon it off Soc Sec trust fund rip off?
Point is it seems like a national problem, not a consumer problem.

TownCrierUSAGOLD is pleased to welcome Mark Griffith as a special contributor with this featured article...#1331466/14/05; 09:21:38 Mark Griffith has a BA in Economics and Philosophy from Cambridge University, England; has traded in the open-outcry futures and options pits of LIFFE, London; has been published by Forbes Magazine, Financial Times newsletters, and American Spectator.

He writes about commodity markets and finance, and is researching a book about how firms can profit from virtual currencies.

FEATURE: Why resistance at 427?

I'm not saying gold speculators are wrong to be watching the woes of the dollar and the euro closely right now. They're both sick and they both count.

But another currency cross rate might have yielded gold bulls more immediate gains in the last couple of days: the dollar/rupee rate.

That's right, I did say that. The exchange rate between the USA, world's largest economy, and India - well, actually, world's largest country, since it squeezed past China at the end of the 90s. But large or not, even the explosively growing India is surely still a small factor in international financial flows?

In my June 6th online article I drew attention to some technical levels in the precious-metals markets Western traders are not always aware of. Watching round numbers in other currencies and other traditional units of weight can make a lot of sense out of what look like some random retracements on the dollar/ounce chart.

An excerpt: (June 6) -- every day huge quantities of gold change hands on the street all across Asia. In Arab countries, Pakistan and India, Indochina and the Far East, many small businesses treat gold as the only real thing. It's different there, not like the West where gold bugs are often seen as eccentrics, and Western businesses are happy (to date) to accept payment in wired dollars, pounds, euros. Or in paper promissary notes.

It would make a lot of sense to watch gold trading in Asia more closely, where they laugh at people who don't value gold. So how to better track their daily unofficial ups and downs for the yellow metal, traded off the official radar screen?

Every Western gold trader realises that breaching a level like 400 dollars an ounce is a big moment. There will be resistance from sellers on the underside, and once through and consolidated, 400 dollars an ounce will quickly act like a floor with resistance from buyers.

But how many Western gold speculators watch levels like 7000 rupees a tola? Or 3500 yen per tael?

7000 rupees a tola translates, at the moment, into around 428 dollars an ounce.... (end snip)

^------(please see url to read this full article)-----^

Thanks for the article, Mark. We hope for many others to follow.


HenriSee the most recent solar flare 6-13#1331476/14/05; 10:14:21

The link takes you to the solar orbiting laboratory website and the beautiful golden flares of any moment. if you let the movie load it will auto play back the image sequence over the past few days and you can get a feel for the size of some of the s coronal mass ejections (CME's) I have been wathcing for awhile and one large CME a week seems about normal lately. last winter/spring there were up to three per week routinely...enjoy the golden rays :-)
TownCrierOne-bn-dollar fund allocated to purchase 35 aircraft#1331486/14/05; 10:16:00

Tehran, June 14, 2005 -- Minister of Roads and Transportation Mohammad Rahmati here Tuesday said that one billion dollars has been allocated for the purchase of 35 passenger planes from the hard currency deposit account and financing share of the Ministry of Roads and Transportation in the current Iranian year (started March 21).

He told IRNA that another fund worth 150 million dollars has also been earmarked for buying aircraft for the state sector.

^----(from url)----^

The previously discussed shift out of papery reserves into tangibles and infrastructure seems to be building momentum.

If you, personally, have no need for a fleet of airplanes, or if you would rather preserve a greater degree of liquidity, then choose gold -- it's perfect for savers of all sizes.


TownCrierLatest von Braun -- "The Two Greater Fools Theory"#13314906/14/05; 11:04:53

Thanks to the professor for the latest submission.

(snip -- from The Rocket School of Economics, June 14)

There is a subtle difference between the stock market bubble, especially the NASDAQ market that peaked in March of 2000, and the current real estate bubble that is being given much press of recent times.

This bubble is occurring not only just in the US, but in other countries such as Australia, New Zealand and the United Kingdom. Low interest rates, silent seconds, interest only loans, no deposit purchases, etc. We hear all about what the buyers are doing and receiving as inducements to purchase a house, anything it seems to keep the 'bubble' going. That is of course the greater fool theory at work with 'agusto'.

But in this wonderful day and age, we hear very little about the other side of the transaction, as in 'who is buying these mortgages?' Banks and other financial institutions are not offering these inducements without the knowledge of the fact that they can be packaged and flipped fairly quickly, which means they have a buyer, a buyer best described as greater fool number two....

(end snip)
Please see url for full commentary and archives of 'The Rocket School' commentaries


USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.FREE Gold Information Packet...#13315006/14/05; 12:06:38

BelgianTIH > Broken Out !?#13315106/14/05; 12:49:05

All fiat are political units. Their exchange rate and local purchasing power, as well. Perfect play-thing for the financial industry.

The gold and oil-pricing are also political. The financial industry prefers you to perceive it as a "market" result.

Airbus and Boeing are also political...even GM or Volkswagen...etc !

But,...regardless of all the politics behind the euro and dollar,...there is ONE MAJOR political difference ! And that difference is the "gold-pricing" policy.

As I've stated before : There is a degree of concert between the policies of euro and dollar. Just like the two competitors Airbus and Boeing are NOT killing each other.

The decoupling of the goldprice-level (not the gold-pricing) from USDX ($-€-+) is simply a search for another goldprice level where the usual goldpricing continues.

At the Paris airshow, Boeing must now take into account that there is an equal competitor, just like the dollar must share the goldprice + goldpricing with the competing euro currency. But competitors do form temporary cartels, whilst their competition goes on.

Hope I don't have to repeat what the opposite concepts of dollar-euro > gold, are.

From my daily observations of the changes in €-$ exchange rate + $-POO + $/€-POG...I conclude that the gold-pricing regime is "CHANGING" !!! Oil and gold are being priced in function of the altering €-$ exchange rate...minute by minute. Just like Airbus and Boeing have to price their products in function of each other's currencies.

But as long as a big majority continues to believe that the goldprice is the result of a genuine goldmarket...this change of goldpricing regime can stealthly continue.

Watch the 20 yrs Goldollar-Index chart (url) :
USDX/100 x $-POG = goldollar-index
In this USDX, we have 50% euro now (instead of Dm).
The chart is a 20 year long saucer (pan) and has recently broken out of a 20 years resistance pivot. The euro (concept) now shares the management of the goldprice AND goldpricing !!! Because of the euro-gold concept where the euro numeraire is supported by a rising goldprice, whereas the dollar concept is based on competition with the goldprice, that was exclusively managed by the dollar, before the euro came into existance.

Euro-dollar and gold are now a trio and have to compromise for as long as it takes !!!

Watch how "indifferent" the goldmine prices remain whilst there is the perception of decoupling ! >>> Goldpricing regime is changing !

TopazBonds.#13315206/14/05; 13:22:52

Rather than a "Scramble for the Exits", Bonds are beating an orderly retreat here, so much so that one might be inclined to consider a retest of the low before the BIG blow-off.
Federal_ReservesHappy Flag Day!#13315306/14/05; 14:38:13

Microsoft under fire for censoring China blogs

By Reed Stevenson

SEATTLE (Reuters) - Microsoft Corp.'s new MSN China Internet venture is censoring words such as
"freedom," "democracy" and "human rights" on its free online journals, Microsoft said on Tuesday,
putting itself in the middle of a major Web controversy.

The world's largest software maker said that its "MSN Spaces" service operated out of China, which
allows users to set up their own blogs, or online journals, was acting in accordance with local laws.

"MSN abides by the laws, regulations and norms of each country in which it operates," said Brooke
Richardson, MSN lead product manager.

AMAZING! US CORPORATIONS ABIDE TO CENSORSHIP and the Communist Manifesto! The soliders who reported to Hitler said they same thing as they gassed the Jews! One day MSN will come looking for you TOO with the automated WEBWARES and SPYBOTS!

HAPPY FLAG DAY! Be sure to pick your copy up at Wall Mart! Made in communist China!

USAGOLD Daily Market ReportPage Update!#13315406/14/05; 14:45:58">
The Daily Gold Market Report has been updated.

If you are considering investments in gold we invite you to">request our free introductory information packet detailing the products and services offered by USAGOLD ~ Centennial Precious Metals. We welcome your inquiry and look forward to working with you.

Tuesday Market Excerpts

June 14 (from Reuters) -- Gold futures in New York closed lower and below a previous five-week peak on Tuesday, as investors cashed in on gains after U.S. data eased inflation fears a bit, dealers said.

COMEX August gold futures fell $1.80 to settle at $429.30.

Futures have been tracking crude oil primarily in the last several days, with players looking at inflationary factors rather than focusing on currencies, traders said.

High oil prices often give gold a boost as traders can use the metal as an inflation hedge.

U.S. crude was down 42 cents at $55.20 per barrel at mid-afternoon.

Heavy liquidation overnight in Tokyo gold futures also weighed on the COMEX market, dealers said. [According to DowJones Newswires-- "We had seen in the previous few days good fund buying, but the price has been kept in check by selling overnight on Tocom," said one trader.]

Analysts said, meanwhile, that bullion prices have loosened their tight correlation with the euro/dollar rate, showing strength despite a stronger U.S. currency.

"The safe haven money is moving from the euro to gold and other commodities," said Peter Schiff, chief global strategist at Euro Pacific Capital.

The euro slumped at $1.2050 at midafternoon, close to a nine-month low against the dollar. The common European currency is down about 10 percent this year, due to sluggish regional growth and concerns about political cohesion after French and Dutch voters recently rejected the EU constitution.

Euro-priced gold was quoted at 354 euros on Tuesday after shooting Monday to a record high above €356.

Chartists put resistance in key COMEX August gold at $432 and $435 with support at last Thursday's low of $423.

RemarxSwiss Franc#13315506/14/05; 14:59:16

Anybody know what is up (or should I say down) with the Swiss franc, in relation to both the dollar and gold? I would have guessed that many exiting the euro would choose the Swiss franc as well as gold.
The Invisible HandJohn Snow and the House of Saud in Riyadh#13315606/14/05; 18:19:13

Interview of Snow by the FT

...whether the rejection of the EU constitutional treaty threatens economic reforms.
"I don't know that they are linked as such. The point I'm trying to make is that wherever Europe goes with these constitutional votes Europe can't and won't overlook the need to achieve its economic potential."
"There are going to be debates when you have 25 member states trying to work together. The US wasn't created without a lot of debates, and we're not free of a lot of debates now. Such debates are just part of the democratic process.

...Chinese actions on the currency.
"I think they are actively engaged in working their way through the issue. We are convinced that China has made such progress over the last couple of years, that they're ready to now to move to greater flexibility."


The London Times on the not-inevitability of European integration,,1055-1654321,00.html
But the events of the past month have overturned all the assumptions on which relations have been managed hitherto. Our continued prosperity outside the euro, and the devastating rejection of the European constitution by two of the EU's founder states, overturns the myth of "inevitability" completely. There is nothing inevitable about European integration any more than it was inevitable that there would always be a Habsburg on the throne of Austria-Hungary, Russian tanks on the Vistula, or, indeed, a House of Saud in Riyadh.

Let me try to understand this. In Europe there must be debate about integration. In China, it's the CB which will decide. In Britain, they are prospering outside the euro (they never heard about recession). The Times is linking Britain's being outside of the euro to the presence of the House of Saud in Riyadh. Do you mean that after the Riyadh revolution, Britain and oil will join the euro?

Gandalf the WhiteFINALLY !!! TA TA TAAAAAAAAAAAAAA -- WE HAVE WINNERS !!#13315706/14/05; 19:42:51

SORRY, for the DELAY !!
The "ROYAL" trumpeters thought that today, Tuesday June 14th ("FLAG DAY" in the USA) was an OFFICIAL HOLIDAY for musicians and the rest of the CASTLE workforce. I advised them to think about their future and whether they had "enough" YELLOW set aside for their retirements, IF THEY WERE FIRED !
Shortly, they all decided to return to work and assist in the announcement of the POG CONTEST WINNERS !

The Town Crier said that the COMEX August Gold Contract (GCQ5) Settlement today was exactly $429.3, and therefore the closest group of ENTRIES were:
$$$$ $430.1 $$$$ commish (06/08/05; 20:47:37MT - msg#: 132963)
$$$$ $429.7 $$$$ Goldendome (6/12/05; 23:06:15MT - msg#: 133096)
$$$$ $429.4 $$$$ The Hoople (6/10/05; 10:17:57MT - msg#: 133009)
$$$$ $428.8 $$$$ Topaz (06/07/05; 00:15:29MT - msg#: 132909)
$$$$ $428.1 $$$$ Black Blade (6/12/05; 11:37:33MT - msg#: 133079

AND, therefore the WINNER of the Gold 20 Francs Swiss Confederatio Helvetica goldpiece is --- The SIR Hoople !!!

While the RUNNERS-UP WINNERS of an one ounce pure Silver U.S. Eagle, are Sir Goldendome and Sir Topaz !!!

CONGRATULATIONS to the three WINNERS ! Will each of the winners please provide their Forum "handles", REAL NAMES and snailmail address to Marie, via email to This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. to allow shipment of the PRIZES !

PS: to Sir Topaz -- YOU still owe me <;-)

commishWay to go. #13315806/14/05; 20:07:45

This contest is fun and educational too!
Chris PowellMorgan Chase pays $2.2 billion for facilitating Enron fraud#13315906/14/05; 21:26:17

Latest GATA dispatch.

To subscribe to GATA's dispatches, send an e-mail to:

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Black BladeWinners!#13316006/14/05; 22:15:20

Congrats to the winners. As secret agent Maxwell Smart always said: "I missed it by that much". ;-)

- Black Blade

slingshotHappy Flag Day#13316106/14/05; 23:29:27

This evening I came in contact with an soldier who has been in battle in Iraq. His pictorial record is supreme.
Each face within the picture has meaning. I have never been this close to one who has been there and lived to tell the story. He is going back to Iraq. To help the people acheive freedom.

somehow gold has lost its luster tonight.

Go Airborne!

slingshotGet Ready To Rumble!#13316206/15/05; 00:29:46

Which has the most influence on the price of Gold

Political- Greenspan or Bush.
Military- Acquisistion of oil fields/ unstable regions
Financial- Derivatives/ bubbles.

Getting down to brass tacks!

slingshotAre you ready for this!#13316306/15/05; 01:12:16

Gee Whiz, I have heard all I can Stand on the subject of BREAKOUT! Breakout is $451 U.S. The reason being nobody wants gold till it becomes expensive. Time and time again we have heard gold is a bargain below $500 and its true. Gold was beaten down to $414. Why? Because if it was allowed to rise aboe $450 it would arouse the interest of the major players. $450 is lots of money to the small fry. To the big players its peanuts. (Ever been to Vegas) So $451 paper burns if it consolidates.

slingshotContest#13316406/15/05; 01:16:28

Congrats to the Winners.

slingshotInvisible Hand#13316506/15/05; 01:24:01

Great "t" shirt

Gold, Ausgebrochen!

TopazPoG Contest.#13316606/15/05; 01:43:09

Thanks Gandy, MK and the crew at USAGOLD Centennial Precious Metals, Inc. These contests are truly a Hallmark of your Company's generosity and integrity...
...and yes GtW I do owe you, but if you notice how the bloody thing flirted with my "guess" before AND after the Comp close you'll no doubt relent and grant a little slack eh?

Big Quake in CA 5 hr's ago.(linked) ...Aftershocks still occurring.

slingshotHello Topaz#13316706/15/05; 01:51:40

Long Night.

Topazslingshot.#13316806/15/05; 02:07:08

Hi mate,

You got a burr in the sleeping-bag or what?

GoldiloxIncreased Quake Activity?#13316906/15/05; 02:10:42

Barely a day after the 7.9 Chilean quake, Crescent City near the Oregon Border has sustained a 7.0 offshore event. A 6.8 was also recorded in the Aleutian Islands.

Ove the past two years, I have been monitoring the CA-NV weekly EQ list.

The average over that period has been 250-360 measurable events.

With all the accompanying tremors to the large quakes, this week's list has hit 800 events.

No seismologist, I have to wonder if the Sumatra event on Dec 26 was the first of a series of harmonic events circling the Pacific Plate.

TopazG'lox#13317006/15/05; 02:26:49

ANOTHER curiosity is that increasing seizmic activity inevitably is related to the Lunar Cycle ie: as the moon waxes thru 1/2 to full Moon, activity increases.
Dunno if this is accepted theory, just my observations.

GoldiloxLunar Cycle#13317106/15/05; 04:21:14

@ Topaz,

There are two theories that address the lunar cycle.

The most widely accepted (gravitational) is that when the moon reaches perigee (closest to Earth), the gravitational pull is strongest, as evidenced by the tidal peak. Solar alignment exerts some effect, athough the greater distance diminishes its contribution.

The second relates to McCanney's electrical theory - that alignment of the Sun and Moon creates a solar capacitor discharge - a secondary effect perturbing the electrical relationship between the Earth and Moon. This could actually introduce energy into the system at both Full and New Moon.

The two are not mutually exclusive, in that they might act together to create a cumulative tug. Plotting apogee and perigee along with solar alignment should result in the most pull when these intersect, i.e. perogee and New Moon or perogee and Full Moon.

According to the Lunar calculator at the URL above, we are mid-phase and mid-distance, so neither effect should be currently at its strongest, unless the EQ activity is relaxing from the pull rather than reacting to it. It's probably more likely that terrestrial sources are exerting more effect than the Sun and Moon.

The period I have been watching is much longer than the lunar cycle, however, as we are witnessing a doubling and trebling of activity over the last two years.

It will be interesting to see if it waxes or wanes from this point.


In regards/relations to the settlement ($2.2 Billion) over the ENRON fiasco and in light of JPMORGAN/CHASE being dropped in the BLANCHARD lawsuit, are we (goldbugs)going to one day find out that they settled with DOYLE and the other two related parties/lawsuits in the gold manipulation case and after BARRICK settles or the pending case/lawsuit is litigated in a court of law, will we (goldbugs) partake in the spoils of that MONETARY SETTLEMENT ?????????????????? DOYLE cannot speak to the subject because of the GAG ORDER.
Remember, this is the same group that argued before the judge that since they were in bed with parties immune to prosecution, they were to be exempt! TRUTH CANNOT BE BOTH WAYS! If Doyle fights for a monetary settlement, and all the goldbugs reinvest that money into GOLD (who would want worthless paper/fiat), that would definitely break the $451-$500-$600-$700-$800 BREAKOUT THRESHHOLDS and put GOLD in the limelight!!!!

slingshotTopaz#1331736/15/05; 06:17:49

Sorry to take so long to get back to you. Guess I had a reality check.

Topaz@G'lox#1331746/15/05; 06:21:24

Thanks for that, it was too apparent to think that someone hadn't mulled it over.
Makes sense too as when at 1/2 Moon, we'd be at the most "stressed" from a dual attraction perspective (90 degrees) current "activity" cycle should wane as this Moon waxes to full - (aftershocks and terrestrial counter-actions permitting).

We certainly DO live in interesting times ...from MANY angles.

Clink!Congrats to all the winners !#1331756/15/05; 07:30:52

And thanks to our generous host and industrious wizard !
I feel your pain, BB, and consoled myself with the words of Warren Buffett, who said (approximately) that you can often tell where the market is going, but getting the timing right is wellnigh impossible !
C! (dethroned King of the Hill)

The HoopleGandalf, MK#13317606/15/05; 08:26:08

Thanks for the Swiss shiny. I'll try not to make a habit out of this lest I be accused of being a cabal guy. After all, only THEY could know the Comex closing price ahead of time, right? Congrats also to the runners-up. Can't go wrong with a silver shiny either. I think the last thing I won was a duck at the county fair. This is much more preferable and definitely less noisy!
White RoseGold is trying to break 7000#13317706/15/05; 08:59:21

7000 Indian rupees/tolas to be exact.
I have 43.575 rupees to the dollar
.375 troy oz for 1 tola
so 428.30 is about 7000 rupees to the tola.
It may take awhile to break this important barrier.

GoldiloxCrude Watch#13317806/15/05; 09:47:02

Lt Sweet Crude has gained $1.43 today to reach $56.43/bbl, leaving analysts wondering if $60/bbl is in reach.

No serious energy price relief in sight!

RimhCongrats to the Winners!#13317906/15/05; 09:55:52

And thanks again, MK, Gandalf and staff at CPM for hosting the contest and this most excellent forum!
USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.Only gold offers the combination of longevity and liquidity that's suitable for savings#13318006/15/05; 10:12:28

gold coins
Why should YOU buy gold?

Because no one else will do it for you.

USAGOLD-Centennial can help.
1-800-869-5115 Extension 100

GoldiloxGold Gains; Dollar Falls After Purchases of U.S. Debt Slows#13318106/15/05; 10:12:38


June 15 (Bloomberg) -- Gold prices in New York rose as foreign investors purchased U.S. assets at a slower-than-expected pace in April, driving the dollar lower and boosting the appeal of the precious metal as an alternative investment.

The dollar fell from a nine-month high against the euro after the Treasury Department said international investors bought a net $47.4 billion in Treasury notes, corporate bonds, stocks and other financial assets in April. The median forecast of seven economists surveyed by Bloomberg was $70 billion.

``What most of the gold traders are watching is how the dollar's going to fare,'' said Frank Lesh, a trader at Rand Financial Services Inc. in Chicago. ``Gold is still really tied to the dollar.''


Lower than expected foreign purchases of US Debt, rising energy prices, rising POG - sounds like inflafla to me!

Gee, the CPI fell on "lower energy costs" - lower than what?

CNBC is harping the "falling gas prices" down 4.4%, but that's measured from the bubblicious high when CA was paying $3.00/gal for premium unleaded.

After bottoming at a 3.8% rate last week, the TenY bond is back around 4.13 today, as some selling (or lack of buying) has taken its toll.

We may be in the eighth inning, as the Dallas FED prez remarked, but does anyone really know "the score"?

GoldiloxJPM settles ENRON suit for $2.2Billion#13318206/15/05; 10:28:28

CNBC reports that JPM, following in Citibank's footsteps, settled the ENRON investor suit for over $2 billion today, the fourth such company to do so in a couple weeks.

HMMMM . . . $8+ billion in settlement for "no wrongdoing"? These brokerage guys are downright altruistic! We should let them handle ALL our retirement funds! NOT!

Of course, were I invested in those "assets", I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for remuneration.

Take your retirement back while you still have some!

Jonathon at CPM has some interesting ideas on Gold IRAs!

TownCrierIran suggests research on economic corruption#13318306/15/05; 10:32:38

Tehran, June 15, IRNA -- Minister of Economic Affairs and Finance Seyed Safdar Hosseini, speaking at the fourth international meeting in Brazil on campaign against economic corruption and support for a clean economy on Wednesday proposed the formation of the world center for research on economic corruption.

... Hosseini attributed the drop in economic efficiency to the constant expansion of Iran's government sector, which in turn has paved the way for corruption.

^-----(from url)-----^

The lesson here on the human condition is that no matter where you go, the problems we face are variations on similar themes.

And the relevance of this to the Forum is that some of the solutions are universal, too. In the struggle we all face against the erosion of our savings in the wake of various monetary imperfections, gold ownership offers the shining pathway to security.

It is no surprise, then, to see that it is in those areas of the world where people have struggled hardest against monetary misdeeds that the individual regard for gold ownership is held in the highest esteem. A lesson we will all eventually learn, and likely not the easy way through the example of others.


GoldiloxDX and Ag#13318406/15/05; 10:35:56

Interesting DX and Ag chart anaysis over at JSMineset submitted by Lars Lundgren.
TownCrierNY gold firms above $430 early; dollar trims gains#13318506/15/05; 10:45:32

NEW YORK, June 15 (Reuters) - Gold futures in New York steadied above $430 an ounce on Wednesday morning...

The dollar hit a nine-month high against the euro before paring its gains...

"The U.S. dollar rally has yet to manifest in a breakdown in dollar-priced gold," Greg Weldon, an independent analyst and publisher of the Metal Monitor report, said.

That was because gold was making its most aggressive effort to date to break away from all paper currencies and rise against them all, with buoyant commodity prices in energy and industrial metals "holding up" gold, Weldon said.

^-----(from url)----^


GoldiloxHUI action#13318606/15/05; 10:49:43

After bottoming around 170 in May, the HUI is closing in on 200 again this morning at 195. Probably good for gold to see the producers regain some equity strength.
mikalGold strength defies bears#13318706/15/05; 10:56:47

Precious Metals Still Higher Late In The Day
GoldiloxGold abve $430#13318806/15/05; 10:56:59

@ TC, the Hoople, MK, and Gandy

SURE! Right after the contest closes, Gold Futures make a bee line towards my guess.

I wonder how many contracts the Hoople shorted to hold it down Tuesday.

Congrats to you and the new Ag recipients!

Thanks MK and Gandy for another frustrating contest.

Sore loser? Who said that? GRRRR!

Goldilox"Hallucinated CPI"#13318906/15/05; 11:28:28

An analyst on CNBC today said the Bond Vigilantes don't believe the "hallucinated government hype", but rather may believe that the deception itself will continue for some time.

He thinks no one thinks housing, as reflected in the CPI. is up just 0.1 percent and energy investments are still cheap as long as they continue to reflect their future on $35 oil.

No mention of PMs, however.

A bit surprising to see someone say this on Bubble Vision. It seemed like he caught Bill by surprise!

The next analyst just said that San Jose and Detroit are still losing jobs and reflect an outflux of workers. Only 500 apartments are under construction in San Jose this year.

Hmmm . . . the old economy and the new economy. I guess we're all gonna take in each others' laundry a while longer.

None of this sounds anything like the admin's "solid recovery".

GoldiloxMore Oil price gouging from Chavez#13319006/15/05; 11:37:48

Reuters (from E*trade)


ENNA, June 15 (Reuters) - Venezuela will raise the tax rate on four multi-billion dollar oil upgrading ventures in a new bill to be presented to the National Assembly, Oil Minister Rafael Ramirez said on Wednesday.

The plan to hike the oil tax rate from 34 to 50 percent on the foreign-controlled ventures comes on the heels of wide-ranging reforms to foreign investment in the oil sector amid government accusations of massive tax evasion.

"In the existing law the Orinoco projects have an exception where they pay 34 percent but we are introducing a modification on income tax," Ramirez told reporters after an OPEC meeting in Vienna.

"We are going to re-establish what was there was in the 1960s which is a separate chapter on oil in income tax law ... which adjusts all oil tax rates into one rate without any reductions."

The tax hike would be the latest measure in a campaign by President Hugo Chavez to extract higher rent from contracts with foreign oil companies signed before he took office in 1999. He says the deals often broke the law and robbed Venezuela of income by giving preferential terms.

Chavez had first announced the income tax increase in April, but tax authorities had later given the impression that the hike applied only to foreign oil production contracts, and not the Orinoco ventures.

Ramirez said the increase would apply to both types of contract, but that the change in terms of the Orinoco ventures would first have to be approved by the National Assembly.


Never dexcribed as "timid", Chavez is pushing for state revenue increases that will likely place more upward pressure on POO!

This should make the US oil admin furious!

The HoopleGoldilox#13319106/15/05; 11:52:55

Me piling on shorts at the close yesterday? Naw, it was much easier spreading a rumor down in the pits that Gordon Brown was seen selling gold bars out of the back of a Brinks truck in front of IMF headquarters. Lennie Kaplan ate it up and advised his clients to puke their positions MOC. I love those lemmings.
TownCrierThe Hoople, great story#13319206/15/05; 12:03:47

But one question. If they're hanging on Kaplan's every word, shouldn't you change that from lemmings to "Lennings"?

Just a thought.


GoldiloxLennings?#13319306/15/05; 12:05:58

"Go ahead. Make my DAY!" ROFLMAO!
GoldiloxTIC figures#13319406/15/05; 12:14:06


The US Treasury International Capital Report (TIC) came in at a positive $53.6 billion below the lowest published expectation and below the US Trade deficit for the same month.

There is simply no more important economic report outside of the TIC. This is comparable to a deposit coming into the US Federal checkbook to pay its monthly bills. The monthly bill can be considered as the dollar affect of the US Trade deficit.

International investors - be they government or other entities -do not make interest on US dollars. They make dollar interest on US Treasury instruments. If an interest rate differential or a weaker euro was in fact a benefit to the value of the US dollar, it would be clearly demonstrated by a major increase in the net inflow figure of the TIC report. Such an event would define that improvement because this is the report on international buying of US dollar-denominated instruments and equities.

The TIC report actually dropped below the US Trade Balance today and the prior report was revised lower than previously announced. This says without a doubt that neither the lower euro nor the interest rate differential favoring the US dollar has had any impact at all on international dollar buying.

If you fail to comprehend this, you have missed the most important criterion for understanding the real market for US dollars that underlie and will control the derivative market for dollars. The reasons given for this dollar rally, which resulted in maniac short dollar covering, had zero impact on real dollar demand.

The dollar rally is therefore all in the spin of the specs and that is not a strong hand or a long term trend maker.

It is quite important now for the US equity market to remain attractive to international investors because the TIC report also takes into account the international purchases of US securities versus international sales of US securities. If the stock market trend appears to be unattractive to international investors on a net basis, the TIC figures will fall further.


JS' timing predictions may be no better than Jim Rogers, who readily admits to being the world's worst market timer, but the fundamentals of his argument remain intact. It would be pretty obvious if we see interest rate wars in the near future, especially if gold continues decoupling.

The HoopleTC #13319506/15/05; 12:44:34

'Lennings' - pl. n. : people who follow a perennially bearish gold advisor off a financial cliff.
GoldiloxGold ETFs#13319606/15/05; 12:46:42

CNBC is hawking the Gold ETFs, suggesting that Ag and Euro ETFs may be on the way.

I guess this POG rise has the Big Boyz worried enough they want to introduce more "Lennings" to their paper chase!

mikal@Goldilox#13319706/15/05; 12:58:30

Re: More ETF's
Wherever the pimps are- India, USA or Bornio-
the prevailing paper pushers motivation is to always
keep going with the flow...or be swept aside and away
by the boss. "Consistency" in dressing up the pig.

Chris PowellBlanchard withdrawal against Morgan was settlement; suit continues vs. Barrick#13319806/15/05; 14:47:00

Latest GATA dispatch.

To subscribe to GATA's dispatches, send an e-mail to:

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

HOOSIER GOLDBUGTHANKS!#1331996/15/05; 15:27:47

Mr. Powell,
Thank you for all your posts and all you do for this forum!

USAGOLD Daily Market ReportPage Update!#1332006/15/05; 15:28:00">
The Daily Gold Market Report has been updated.

If you are considering investments in gold we invite you to">request our free introductory information packet detailing the products and services offered by USAGOLD ~ Centennial Precious Metals. We welcome your inquiry and look forward to working with you.

Wednesday Market Excerpts

June 15 (from DowJones) -- Fund buying lifted prices throughout the precious metals futures complex Wednesday, traders and analysts said.

Fund buying appeared heaviest in the gold, said Tom Boustead, metals analyst with Refco.

He pointed to a softer U.S. dollar as a catalyst that may have helped the metals. The greenback, in turn, was hurt by a soft Treasury International Capital System inflows of $47.5 billion April and a 0.1% drop in the May Consumer Price Index, said Boustead.

Comex August gold futures settled up $1.60 to $430.90.

"The CPI looked a little weak, and that might take some of the pressure off the Fed to hike rates," said Boustead.

Some traders, however, offered the view that gold has been decoupling some from its normal euro/dollar relationship lately. Thus, they suggested, the metal appeared to find some support even before the dollar weakened.

[According to Reuters, Independent analyst Greg Weldon said in his morning Metal Monitor report that dollar-priced gold managed to avoid breaking down even during the recent dollar rally. That was because bullion was making its an aggressive effort to break away from and rise against all paper currencies, buoyed mainly by higher prices for energy and industrial metals, Weldon said.]

As gold closed, the euro was just above $1.21, compared to $1.2032 late Tuesday.

----(see url for full news, 24-hr newswire)----

TownCrierHEADLINE: Why We Were So Wrong About 2005#1332016/15/05; 15:46:17

by Jim Jubak

(excerpts) -- At the turn of the year, a consensus of economists, prognosticators, market gurus and various experts without a portfolio -- I'm in one or the other of those categories, I think -- predicted that in 2005 the dollar would fall, long-term interest rates would rise, economic growth would slow and the bond market would tumble.

Halfway through 2005, how could we all have been so wrong?

I still think the chickens -- big budget deficits, huge trade deficits and crushing consumer debt -- will come home to roost. The dollar will fall, interest rates will rise and the economy will stumble -- just later than everyone predicted. The predictions made at the beginning of 2005 were a victim of lag, one of the worst problems in economic forecasting.

Economics is relatively good at telling us what should happen next, but it's downright awful at telling us when next is. For example, if consumers keep borrowing more and more to spend more and more, at some point, economics says, the debt pyramid will come crashing down. But is "some point" the second half of 2005, 2006 or 2010?

If you study the nature of the lags that derailed the predictions of January 2005, that "some point" looks likely to be 2006. Maybe mid-2006.

Consider the mess that has swallowed the euro in the last few months... what has been bad for the euro has been good for the dollar.

It's not so much that the dollar looks so much better than it did in January. The U.S. still faces huge budget and trade deficits. In fact, the April trade deficit climbed to $57 billion after the monthly deficit had dropped to a revised $54 billion in March. But some of the fear that Asian banks would start dumping their dollars to buy euros has dissipated, now that so much uncertainty swirls around the euro.

...The argument at the beginning of 2005 for a weaker dollar and higher U.S. interest rates was based, in good part, on a belief that international investors were becoming gradually unwilling to hold an ever-increasing supply of U.S. dollars. That unwillingness started to show up earlier this year in announcements from Asia central banks that they were thinking about reducing their portfolio concentration of dollars in favor of other currencies.

Haven't heard much talk like that since the euro's political crisis, have you?

Where does that leave investors? we move into 2006, those predictions from early 2005 are likely to seem more and more correct. The trends set by the economy, interest rates and currencies so far this year are closer to their end than to their beginning. And many of the strategies that have made money in the first half of 2005 will look increasingly risky as the year's second half plays out.

In other words, we market prognosticators weren't wrong in January 2005. We were just very, very early.

^-----(see url for full article)----^

When it comes to diversification and preparation, it is better (nay, NECESSARY) to be early than to be a moment too late.

Choose gold, and do it soon, for all the right reasons.

Call USAGOLD-Centennial for friendly, professional guidance and assistance with your purchase.


BoilermakerBlanchard-JPM Settlement#1332026/15/05; 16:17:56

Chris, thanks very much for the "settlement" info. Can you tell us the source of this? I'm disappointed that Blanchard apparently will let JPM off the hook for a cash settlement. I wonder how many "discovery" documents will get buried in this outcome. Blanchard does not seem to be interested in the larger PM community nor in the welfare of this country. The word sellout comes to mind.

Blanchard now has inside information regarding what has been going on and might be expected to trade on that. I'm not impressed with their moral or business ethics. Our host, MK, should consider pursuing this matter for the benefit of all.

GoldiloxOut of Court Settlements#1332036/15/05; 17:11:11

I'm totally with Boilermaker on his evaluation of the Blanchard scenario.These settlements are often the most damaging thing that can happen. I remember during the Microsoft anti-trust suit, the defense proposed that Apple's strong presence in the education market was evidence of no monopoly. So what did the court order? Microsoft was told to "give away" millions of copies of Windows to the education market as settlement, thus undercutting their only remaining competition with full court support.

I like to think these courts are just stupid, as the only alternatives are completely sinister.

$8 Billion in "no wrongful conduct" settlements in the ENRON case tells the same story. No true rectification, just dirty money passing hands.

GoldendomeYes, Sir MK ! Thanks for the contest funding.#1332046/15/05; 17:27:39

Just a lucky guess on my part... And, one that was proximate enough to Sir Hoople's, to benefit from his blatant and admitted market manipulations!

One question on the contests: Why do we use the closest futures month for the contest, rather than simply guessing the closing spot price on a particular day?

Dollar Bill.,.#1332056/15/05; 17:47:34

Alan Greenspan: "The problem I have is that there are a whole series of hypotheses all of which are credible. But clearly, while some of them can be concurrently functioning, it's also conceivable – I can conceive of hypotheses which are mutually contradictory. The reason we are having trouble fully understanding this process is that we've never run into anything like this before. This is the first time – despite a half-century of globalization – following World War II - that we have really begun to see the movement, of not only goods and services, but of capital and debt instruments, all sorts of exotic new types of financial innovations going across boarders and integrated worldwide. The behavior of the American interest-rate structure for the last fifty years, in the context of what we're looking at. So I do think that the most relevant likely reason why we are dealing with what we are dealing with are new forces at work in the international market, but their nature and their behavior is not something we are going to fully understand, if ever, certainly except in retrospect."

ha ha, nice try greenie.


Do you really think that with all the documentation in the world, Doyle and Blanchard can make JPMORGAN and Barrick and the cartel cover their short positions and make them DO THE RIGHT THING???????? Do you really think JPMORGAN and Barrick will never set up some offshore Carribean entity to circumvent the law??????????? Do you really think that the exchanges, the financial firms, the politicians, the central banks, etc. will let free markets exist in this world?????????????????????? Do really think that 8 billion dollars in the hands of GOLDBUGS would not do some damage to the cartel and affect the GOLD MARKET????????? EVERYTHING IN THIS WORLD IS CONTROLLED, BUT ONCE IN A WHILE THE PEOPLE IN CONTROL MAKE A MISTAKE. YOU CAPITALIZE ON THE ERROR THE BEST WAY YOU CAN AND TAKE WHATEVER YOU CAN GET! THE JUDGE ALREADY SAID THERE WAS ENOUGH CAUSE TO COME TO A SETTLEMENT! SHE EVEN SET A DATE FOR BOTH PARTIES TO RESPOND TO HER DEMAND (MARCH 30 or was it MARCH 31). WAS THE NEXT STEP IN THE PROCESS, THE JUDGE THROWING EVERYTHING OUT OF COURT IF MR. DOYLE AND BLANCHARD DID NOT SHOW EFFORT OR GOOD FAITH IN COMING TO A SETTLEMENT??????????????????????????????? WITH THE GAG ORDER WE MAY NEVER KNOW. Before we get too negative or critical of the situation and Mr. Doyle and Blanchard's actions, we need to see how this all plays out! At the minimum, DOYLE and MURPHY and HOWE and their associates are the only people to this point in time to step up and take on the force. At any rate, whatever the outcome, they will have done way more than anyone else has accomplished with regards to GOLD MANIPULATION!

GoldiloxManipulation#1332076/15/05; 21:03:00

@ Hoosier Goldbug,

In a word, "NO".

Black BladeGoldilox#1332086/15/05; 21:34:39

" that was proximate enough to Sir Hoople's, to benefit from his blatant and admitted market manipulations!"

Ah, that must be it. Always had my suspicions about Sir Hoople. ;-)

Black BladeOoops!#1332096/15/05; 21:36:36

Should've said to Goldendome.

All in jest of course. Cheers!

- Black Blade

Chris PowellBlanchard, MorganChase, and Barrick#1332106/15/05; 21:54:38

The Blanchard people aren't saying what their
settlement with Morgan was but are striving
to impress on people that their goal has been and
remains to stop the use of bullion banks and
Barrick as covers for central bank intervention in
the gold market -- which would make sense, the
theme of the case always being that empowering
the bullion banks and Barrick to rig the gold
market was contrary to anti-trust law even as
the central banks always had the power to go
into the gold market directly. But of course any
direct and visible intervention by the central
banks in the gold market would sharply reduce
the benefits of doing so, since the market would
know that the gold price wasn't really a market
price after all but the product of intervention
and thus that gold no longer could be used as a
barometer of economic conditions.

GATA doesn't KNOW this, but it may be fair
surmise that the Blanchard case will result
in agreements, public or not, with MorganChase
and Barrick that they haven't done what was
alleged and won't do it in the future. If
that left the central banks to have to rig
the gold market in the open, it would be, I
think, a great victory, for at least the world
would finally know what was going on.

CHRIS POWELL, Secretary/Treasurer
Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee Inc.

mackattackAnd blanchard,murphy et all will be financially rewarded...will gold bugs?#1332116/15/05; 21:59:27

No!If the case is settled and swept under the rug only Blanchard,Murphy etc. will get the gain,not gold bugs who were fleeced.We dont have the dollars to get the world's best attorneys and take on the big boys.And of course, going into this Blanchard would have known full well this would be not only a possible outcome but a likely one.We can see now that Murphy and Gata work in their own interests and so should you.If they get a huge payoff for scaring everyone out of the market,how is that justice for us?This whole trial was a bunch of hype about nothing and the cartel wont collapse until they run out of physical.One day a big big buyer will hit the physical market, until then buy physical and be real careful of wolves in sheeps clothing ;)
Chris PowellGATA has no financial interest in the Blanchard case#1332126/15/05; 22:43:12

Mackattack, GATA has no direct financial interest in the Blanchard lawsuit and no more financial interest in the case than you or any gold investors do. GATA has provided some information and advice to Blanchard but is not even a party to the lawsuit. The lawsuit seeks to stop anti-trust violations in the manipulation of the gold price, and continues to have a good chance of doing so. That would benefit everyone.
Gandalf the WhiteAn attempt to ANSWER Sir Goldendome's Question <:-)#1332136/15/05; 22:44:49

Goldendome (6/15/05; 17:27:39MT - msg#: 133204)
"One question on the contests: Why do we use the closest futures month for the contest, rather than simply guessing the closing spot price on a particular day?"
The reasoning behind NOT using "the closing spot price on a particular day" is --------------that there are as many DIFFERENT "spot prices" as there are dogs "SPOT" !!!
"SPOT" prices never really "close" for a whole day !
You might think of using the London PM "Fixing" (a number selected by the "Group of Bookstirs"), or perhaps, any of the numberous other SPOT prices, like "thebulliondesk" at a SPECIFIC instance, but that would require numerous JUDGES to "SEE" and agree on the price as it changes so fast. However, One should never consider using the "SPOT" price from the "Hall of FOOD Fights", as it is often INCORRECT !

SO, I have "selected" the SETTLEMENT price on the COMEX MOST ACTIVE MONTH contract, (not the CLOSEST futures month), for use in the POG CONTESTS, as I felt "it" was the most "fair", plus most easily and timely obtained, as it STAYS the same for the time between the Close and the next day's OPEN !. ANOTHER, point of reasoning is that the daily COMEX trading price action is most often the MOST VOLATILE of ALL the WORLD trading sessions !
Thanks for asking !
ALL comments are received with an open mind !
(Open, I said, NOT empty !)

RimhA little harsh, don't you think, mackattack?#1332146/15/05; 22:47:35

I have no clue how you think Murphy and gata are supposed to benefit from this suit any more than the average gold bug. What exactly do you mean? As far as I can tell, they've been trying to set things straight for the gold bugs for the last six years. Where've you been and what have you done to publicly expose the gold scandal that's been brewing?
GoldendomeSir Gandalf: Thanks for the explained reasoning.#1332156/15/05; 23:07:00

In the POG contests.
donnemuirTsunami#1332166/15/05; 23:08:30

Last night's west coast tsunami evacuation exercise brought a long time friend of mine up from the flood plain to my house a couple of blocks away and 90 feet higher. He was wrestling with two good size military ammo boxes. The tsnami warning broadcasts were predicting 20 minutes to zero hour and it took him 15 minutes to get the boxes out of hiding. I asked him if he was able to get anything else; and he said " yea, I grabbed a 6-pack just in case you were watching the Mariners game.

He called the boxes his "go to hell" stash. Filled with plastic tubes of gold coins and weighed about 60 pounds each. I thought I was making a joke when I asked him if that was all of it...his answer; "no, but only my kids know where the rest of it's hid".

We have been good friends for nearly 60 years; he never mentioned his gold collection (even though he knew that I had been an amateur prospector). Our friendship immediately took on a whole new dimension. We watched the Mariners beat the Phillies; Ichirio got his 1000; we drank the 6-pack; compared coin collections until the evacuation alert was cancelled.

Two septegenarian widowers who have their priorities straight.

SmeagolNice sstash, your friend has, but...#1332176/15/05; 23:26:35

what about the wave? Was it a wash? (O, that was sssooo bad, precious...)


TopazBonds,Gold etc#1332186/16/05; 02:13:47

The Long end of the curve sure enough gave a bit back yesterday and is now an each-way directional bet ...just to confound the experts!
This is where ALL the interest lies (no pun intended), as to retest the 120 high (price) we'd need to "drop" both DX and OIL ...and "raise" PoG.
Pray for such GoldHearts ...if for no other reason than to keep those Peak-Oil blokes off every B-Board on the Net ;-)

Nice tale Donnemuir.

Topaz...speaking of "experts"#1332196/16/05; 02:34:42's simply amazing (to me anyway) that NONE of the Mainstream commentators have made the connection between PoG's increasing periods of "out-performance" correlating with the Comex Delivery Window .
Blind Freeddie can can see it, Experts can't ...or won't!

Such is the REALITY of Bullion.

TopazSorry about the double posts...#1332216/16/05; 04:02:49

...but, just to explain, as the delivery month rollover approaches, the alt$-PoG tends to outperform it's currency counterparts and continues to do so until OI in the month fizzles out.
We then "calm-down" 'till the Cycle repeats.

This trend has become more magnified going forward up until now ...when we all are crying "Breakout"

To consider the mechanics of this (Ag does it too) we could assume that in order to effect delivery, traders are: 1. spreading their obligations further and further into the said month and 2. having to ramp SPOT in order to get the Metal.

August ...bring it on!

USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.Proven Reliability, Longevity, Quality and Professionalism ---- Invest with Confidence -- Since 1973!!#1332226/16/05; 05:44:13

donnemuirSmeagol#1332236/16/05; 05:54:00

Tempesssst in a teapot
BoilermakerBlanchard-JPM Settlement#1332246/16/05; 07:28:56

Chris, I agree with you that "their goal has been and
remains to stop the use of bullion banks and
Barrick as covers for central bank intervention in
the gold market...." is an important and useful goal.

However, this does nothing to expose to the public the decade(s) of corruption that has been a feature of the gold market and quite likely other markets. The bankers and their illegal activities are still completely hidden from public scrutiny and presumably the persons who directed these activities will not be subject to the same justice that prevails for most of us. In my opinion this resolution does nothing to expose the breadth and depth of corruption that pervades the world's banking sector.

I'm sure that GATA will carry on the crusade and I am most grateful to you, Bill Murphy and all the excellent minds that continually reveal what is happening.

White RoseGold is now 7086 rupees per tola#1332256/16/05; 07:39:05

It is nice that it crossed the 7000 line so decisively.
Goldilox"Same Justice"#1332266/16/05; 08:52:16

@ BM,

I hesitate to be too political before the weekend, but where would this "same justice" stop? IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN!

If TPTB were submitted to the "same justice" as the electorate, they would all be rotting in the prisons they so proudly build to house "non-connected" offenders. This only happens during events like the French Revolution, whereby a new set of "rulers" reverse the bias and enforce their own advantage.

If we "clean up" the gold trade, what about tax-exempt religious corporations, derivatives, currencies, securities, insurance companies, banks, energy cartels, drug cartels, diamond cartels, illicit drug and arms markets run by intelligence agencies, space "research", etc. - including the courts themselves. One does not get elected to a court by being "immune from the system".

Government is touted as a protection for the individual, but ALWAYS comes down to a protection racket for the benefit of the "protectors" - at a heavy price for the individual. Not unlike the street "protection rackets".

Simple case in point:

Why do the "blind trusts" of Congress and admin officials ALWAYS beat the best professional investors? It's not what you know, but who you . . .

It's a rigged game, and the individual must plod along on the sidelines as best he can - either out of the spotlight or as part of the crooked "family".

Those who choose other alternatives just garner undesirable labels.

. . . just my highly political opinion.


GoldiloxReal Estate Bubble?#1332276/16/05; 09:04:49

CNBC is running a piece about foreign RE investor activity in US commercial and residential real estate.

Having lived through the 1980's sellout to Japanese investors, I wonder if this is not the signal that Re has peaked.

In 1980, Japanese industrial cash was sopping up hotels, office parks, theme parks, etc. and essentially fueled that RE boom. Soon after the global "turn around" cost them zillions in devaluation of highly leveraged properties.

With RE leverage at an all-time high, is this just the right setup to repeat this bubblicious behavior, relieving the paper-rich winners of the previous mania of their "excess capital"?

If you have "excess capital", there is probably no better way to protect it than to dig a hole and drop some real money (gold and silver) in it before risking it all in the next bubble.

Bizarro-GreenspanAs far as I can recall...#1332286/16/05; 09:11:10

Old jack of all trades ORO was the first (by a country mile,that is)to note the significance of Euro 350 POG.

Many are lining up to take credit for this,but they are mere pretenders.

Gandalf the WhiteGREAT JUMPING today "SPOT" !!! <;-)#1332296/16/05; 09:19:23

Well above the Hobbits POG Contest value of a couple days ago !
Where is Goldfly to "sing" with us ?
Still awaiting Sir ORO to surface again too!

GoldiloxPOG jumping#1332306/16/05; 09:28:00

Not to be confused with "frog jumping".

Probably due to the Hoople covering his shorts - after he sopped up the all of bars in Gordie's truck sale. LOL

GoldiloxDX - ESF action#1332316/16/05; 09:33:28

Boy, if one of the big currency traders jumps on the regular ESF morning open moves at this point, we could be in for quite a rush!
GoldiloxUnion Troubles#1332326/16/05; 09:55:09

CNBC just ran a discussion of some rumblings on the Union front.

It seems four of the fastest growing unions are making noise about leaving the AFL-CIO.

Ironically, the four unions, who represent public employees, find the AFL inneffective in dealing with the admin's union busting activities.

Do they really think they can be more effective in dealing with their own "management", or do they just wanna further distance themselves from private labor, who is taking it in the shorts from the corporate friendly administrations not very cooperative with traditionally Democratic labor representation?

GoldiloxSix Dollar Limit?#1332336/16/05; 10:22:45

Au up $6.60 this morning

Limit? We don need no schtinkin' LIMIT!

Black Blade"No More Rabbits!" - OPEC Falls Short Of World Oil Needs#1332346/16/05; 10:39:40


Consuming countries face a worrying outlook this year, with questions posed over the ability of Russia to maintain its production growth, Iraq's output and crude quality, diesel consumption in the U.S., and with the value of Saudi's spare capacity in doubt given the refining logjam. Kamel al Harami, a Kuwait-based oil analyst, said: "OPEC isn't able to cool prices. The situation is out of its hands. The other 500,000 barrels a day, even if it is available, isn't the right quality." Saudi Arabia is the only producer in the world with an ability to sharply boost output at short notice. But the kingdom has few takers for its remaining 1.5 million barrels a day of sulfur-rich crude. Members have complained previously that the old basket of seven crudes, created in 1987, overstated the value of the group's output. They pushed for a basket that better represents grades that are higher in sulfur and, as such, relatively cheaper. A further 500,000 barrels-a-day increase in the ceiling would, on paper, sanction additional production. The worth of that second stage is in doubt, given how many OPEC producers are currently near, or at, maximum production.

Black Blade: New OPEC quotas fall short. Also there was a bullish natgas storage report today. I don't see oil and gas prices falling anytime soon. And yet the Head Fed (Alan Greenspan) sees only "benign" inflation.

The HoopleGoldilox#1332356/16/05; 10:56:48

Once again your assumption of my short covering is wrong. Gold is higher after yet another rumor that an Arab, an Indian, and a Chinese fellow showed up at Gordon Brown's Brinks truck and got into a fight over who was going to buy the whole damned truckload of gold. Sec. Snow intervened and recited "he who sells what isn't his'n, ...". The Brinks truck allegedly then left for a warehouse marked "deep storage".
RimhHoople#1332366/16/05; 11:01:50

GoldiloxTruck Sale#1332376/16/05; 11:14:04

Scooped by the Hoop AGAIN! LOL
USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.Save right... and sleep tight!#1332386/16/05; 11:34:07

Golden Goal

"Treasure chests throughout history
have been filled with gold, and not by idle choice."

-- R. Strauss

Henri@Goldilox - third lunar theory#1332396/16/05; 12:10:33

That gravity is merely an illusion and what keeps the oceans and atmosphere on earth is a ubiquitous pressure of some unknown dimension. This pressure is then blocked by the moon and so explains why the tides rise on both sides of the earth not just one side as would be predicted by an attractive force. Since this mysterious force or pressure is exerted isotropically (from all sides equally), the lunar passing blocks some of the force allowing the tides to rise where the pressure is blocked/adsorbed by the moon
TownCrierHEADLINE: Gold emerges as currency of choice as euro buckles#1332406/16/05; 12:25:48

NEW YORK, June 16 (Reuters) - Collapsing confidence in the euro has become one of the principal factors behind the breakdown in the close correlation between gold prices and the dollar, suggesting gold may become something of a currency of choice this summer.

The euro's 2005 decline has accelerated in the last three weeks after voters in France and the Netherlands rejected a proposed European Union constitution, which has raised question marks over the drive for broader European political unity.

The resulting political crisis in Europe has been one of the main factors driving the dollar higher, normally a condition of lower dollar-denominated gold prices, and decoupling the relationship between the euro and gold.

Yet gold, whether priced in dollars, euros or yen, has strengthened markedly in the past few weeks leading some analysts to say that it may now be emerging as a genuine investment alternative in its own right.

"To me, it's one of the most interesting things to happen in the gold market for a few years," said John Reade, precious metals analyst at UBS in London.

"The performance of gold means you can make the case that gold's now a genuine diversifier (asset) of the dollar."

...The euro has fallen around 4 percent in the three weeks since French and Dutch vote ..... the dollar index , a flows-weighted measure of the dollar against a basket of currencies, has risen around 3.5 percent. ..... Yet in that time gold has risen by almost 5 percent, hitting a 6-week high of $434.40 an ounce on Thursday.

"We've seen a de-coupling, mainly because of what's going on in the euro," said a senior bullion dealer at a bank in New York.

Until a couple of weeks ago, many banks traded gold from their foreign exchange desks, the dealer said. Now, however, the moves in gold and currencies have unnerved many traders, leading to a decrease in banks' proprietary gold trading and increase in investment fund activity.

With the euro probing fresh 9-month lows (against the dollar) this week, gold in euro terms is hitting record highs...

"In short, gold has become the currency of choice," ...Gold is often seen as a hedge for investors against inflation, political instability or gyrating financial markets.

^------(from url)-----^

Click url to read all of this refreshing pro-gold article. However, to improve the jargon, I would submit that gold is emerging more fully as the "currency of savings" of choice. And that includes becoming the "currency of reserves" in the official sector. Not to be confused with transactional currency, however, for there will necessarily remain the various national (or regional) monies.

Call the brokers at USAGOLD-Centennial to assemble a diversification strategy that's exactly suited for you.


TownCrierFederal Reserve buys Treasuries outright, also adds $17 billion in temporary reserves to boost money supply#1332416/16/05; 12:37:00

While the market in overnight fed funds was trading nicely in line with the FOMC policy target, the trading desk for the Federal Reserve nonetheless saw fit to enter the open market, adding $9 billion to the cash reserves of the nation's banking system through 14-day repurchase agreements, and adding another $8 billion through overnight repos.

More signficantly, the Fed helped prop up the market in Inflation-protected Treasury bonds, buying TIPS outright in the range of January 2007 to April 2032, thereby 'permantly' adding $425 million in high-powered (multipliable) reserves into the nation's money supply.

As you can see, money is easy to manufacture by the billions. Gold, however, is much harder to come by, and therefore has a long-established credibility in the role of savings and reserves. Call USAGOLD-Centennial -- they can make the getting of it a little easier for you.


TownCrierFundamentally, the dollar could be much weaker...#1332426/16/05; 13:01:05

HEADLINE: Turkish central bank reserves rise to $39.096 bln

ISTANBUL, June 16 (Reuters) - Turkey's central bank said on Thursday its foreign currency reserves rose $1.980 billion...

Foreign currency reserves had also increased sharply a week earlier, rising $1.343 billion.

The gains over the two weeks reflected the impact of the central bank's intervention in the forex market to buy dollars ... [a] wave of interventions, aimed at cooling the lira amid strong demand for Turkish assets so far this month.

Gold reserves remained unchanged at $1.596 billion, the bank said in its weekly bulletin.

^-----(from url)-----^

It remains a slow and arduous exit strategy to preserve the greatest possible level of transitional stability, but the central bankers of the world fully realized as the dollar generally weakened 30% across the board in recent years that bond yields are no match for exchange-rate losses. They also realized that as any given national currency has exchange rate risk against any other national currency used as a reserve asset over time, the one reserve asset that is reliable against losses versus all currencies as an ongoing venture is gold. That is, in its exchange rate against all national currencies, gold is the only one free of the various political and economic risks which ensures that it has been and always will be a riser over time -- the closest thing to a "sure thing" to help central bankers pare down their exposure to systemic and operational risk and losses.

The point of my headline being, if we were to roll into the future further into (or past) the transition, the Turkish central bank would not likely be buying dollars, but would rather be "augmenting" its balance sheet as it deemed appropriate with a few additional pounds of gold.

Food for thought.


The CoinGuyTC RE: #133240#1332436/16/05; 13:26:42

A lo-o-o-ong wait for that headline.


The CoinGuy

TownCrierFive Dollar Salary That Changed Corporate History#1332446/16/05; 13:30:10

JUNE 17, 2005 -- In 1914, Henry Ford, chairman of Ford Motor Company, made a critical decision.

The decision was whether to give five dollars per day to workers, which triggered serious resistance from other companies that had given only two dollars per day to workers. However, Henry Ford didn't yield to this objection because he believed that high wages guarantee good labor quality, which eventually paved the way for the era of the mass production of autos.

Ford made another critical decision 60 years later not to recall the Pinto, a compact car manufactured by the company, even though a defect in it was confirmed. This decision was grounded in that the recall cost would surpass the damage costs when accidents took place due to this defect.

However, this decision was wrong because it seriously tarnished the image of Ford Motor Company, which put the company under persistent scrutiny from consumer organizations as a result.

When making decisions, managers always go through a very hard time, as shown in Napoleon's words: "Anything can't be more difficult and important than making decisions."

^----(from url)---^

This article was posted, not because it related to gold per se, but rather because it relates the the decision-making process that ultimately every man must resolve for himself to gamble on currencies, their relative exchange rates plus their yields over time -VERSUS- the altnerate desire for security, that is, to nurture the fair value once he has earned it by conversion of the currency units into tangible wealth such as gold -- a savings good for a lifetime.


GoldiloxUbiquitous forcce of some unknown dimension?#1332456/16/05; 13:33:27

@ Henri,

Sounds a lot like gravity, except for the discalimer in the first sentence.

Lots of scientific sounding words without any explanation, direction, magnitude, or source.

Might this be a new age description from someone who is "channeling" some here-to-before unknown exogenous being?

Federal_ReservesUnions#1332466/16/05; 13:44:02

In Feb 2000, the AFL-CIO's executive council reversed its longtime policy on immigration and called for a blanket amnesty for the estimated 6 million illegal aliens currently working in the U.S. The federation's executive council also called for repeal of the 1986 law crim-inalizing the hiring of undocumented workers. Because labor unions had been the principal proponent of employer sanctions, their reversal is a dramatic shift in policy. Historically, unions have opposed any increase in immigration, viewing immigrants as competitors for scarce jobs and as potential strikebreakers. Why did the AFL-CIO reverse course? The jobs and wages of union rank and file are threatened by an enormous influx of undocumented workers, but today's union leadership has concluded that only by shepherding tens of thousands of low-wage service workers onto membership rolls can it reverse the decline in union membership!
DruidTownCrier (6/16/05; 13:30:10MT - msg#: 133244)#1332476/16/05; 13:50:04

Druid: TC, what is also a HUGE component of your article is that during that time, Henry Ford helped stopped the race to the bottom in terms of pricing labor and in earnest helped bring forth our "middle" class(increasing wages). What if China were to take a page out of ole Ernie's playbook and start pricing their labor upward so that their workers could afford what they produce.

Hmm, sounds like a conundrum.

TopazVolatility!#1332486/16/05; 14:47:36

Boy oh boy we've got it in spades today, the data services simply can't keep up.
Dollar and Euro are both hell-bent on lowering their exchange rate here, Buck back to 85> and Euro desperate for Buck parity.
Sub-currencies having to absorb this.

Bond Yields, all over the place like a mad womans breakfast.

TownCrierGold surges to seven-week high#1332496/16/05; 14:55:06{E6B9D8EC-D0C7-46F8-B5B0-631D9B45461C}&siteid=mktw

New York (MarketWatch) -- Gold and copper staged strong rallies Thursday with the yellow metal surging to a seven-week peak on a wave of speculative buying and continued decoupling from the currency market.

Gold continued to detach itself from currencies, rising against both the euro and dollar, as investors, who are concerned over currency losses, purchased gold for hedging purposes, according to analysts.

"There is a growing realization that gold, commodities and commodity derived products offer far more stable investment prospects than European or US financial products," said James Moore of

Dale Doelling, chief market technician at Trends in Commodities, said the upward sentiment in gold will continue in the foreseeable future and forecast gold will trade at above $500 an ounce by August.

"We'll probably see a 'two steps forward and half-a-step back,'" he said.

^------(From url)----^

Particularly liked James Moore's comment -- "a growing realization that gold, commodities and commodity derived products offer far more stable investment prospects than European or US financial products." Now if we could just keep the financial houses from derivatizing, paperizing and financializing these tangible assets into counterparty-dependent obscurity, I'd say we'd be ON THE ROAD to where we need to be.

Simply put, outright gold OWNERSHIP is for kingly men and for all those who would similarly choose to be masters of their own destiny. By contrast, gold LOANS are for fools -- so don't play that game, and steer clear of UNallocated accounts.

Call USAGOLD-Centennial to be steered down a path that's safe and solid.


USAGOLD Daily Market ReportPage Update!#1332506/16/05; 14:58:12">
The Daily Gold Market Report has been updated.

If you are considering investments in gold we invite you to">request our free introductory information packet detailing the products and services offered by USAGOLD ~ Centennial Precious Metals. We welcome your inquiry and look forward to working with you.

Thursday Market Excerpts

June 16 (from Reuters) -- U.S. gold futures rallied to a seven-week high on Thursday, as fund and speculator buying across the metals complex and bullion's decoupling from the U.S. dollar buoyed prices, dealers said.

COMEX August contracts gained $7.00 to end at $437.90.

Prices broke above first resistance at $432 an ounce in early trade and ultimately shot past the next key barrier at $435 on waves of broker and investment fund buying.

"There's huge fund buying in gold, both short covering and perhaps new longs," a broker at a futures commission merchant said.

With bullion apparently appreciating against a host of currencies, like the euro and yen, some saw the metal emerging as a genuine investment alternative in its own right.

"To me, it's one of the most interesting things to happen in the gold market for a few years," said John Reade, precious metals analyst at UBS in London.

"The performance of gold means you can make the case that gold's now a genuine diversifier (asset) of the dollar."

Merrill Lynch said gold's resilience despite a weaker euro and stronger dollar was partly due to "very strong first quarter demand," particularly in China and India.

"Prices are starting to turn upwards in most non-U.S. currencies," Merrill said in a report.

"With underlying demand showing strength despite higher local prices, we consider this bullish for bullion."

Euro-priced gold hit an all-time high on Thursday at just over 361 euros. It was the fifth straight session holding above the technically significant 350 level.

----(see url for full news, 24-hr headlines)----

GoldiloxChina's Consumers#1332516/16/05; 15:34:41

@ Druid,

I think you've raised an interesting point here. So far, China is re-investing the profits from their state-owned interprises in infrastructure, resources, and global investment vehicles, but others have suggested that their longer term goal is to build a consumer society.

Should be fun to watch, except for the fact that waiting on the Chinese so often resembles "watching paint dry".

I guess that is to be expected from a society that has trudged along since the days when western history was comprised of "hunting tales around the tribal campfire".

Goldilox$500 by August?#1332526/16/05; 15:36:23

Hey, TC.

I like that Doelling guy! I hope he guesses right.

GoldiloxShake, Rattle, and Roll#1332536/16/05; 15:51:34

Another 5.3 EQ in Riverside, CA - following a 5.2 in Anza, a 7.9 in Chile, 7.2 in Eureka, and a 6.8 in the Aleutians.

Weekly measurable events for CA-NV is now up to 837 from a prior average of 25-300.

Which first - $500 gold or 1000 EQ/week in CA? Or maybe they will coincide?

Great Albino BatHenri - your brief post re gravitation...#1332546/16/05; 16:03:29

Henri - most interesting post, yet competely off topic.
Let's hope I can sneak this through.

I have read that there is an oddity associated with the gravitational theory of the tides - that the Sun should have a much greater effect on the tides than the Moon, due to the Sun's huge mass, which although far distant, should yet be stronger in effect than the Moon's small mass, by comparison. And yet, the Moon has much greater effect.

Perhaps we can continue this, Friday afternoon?

To appease the Censor: The question of the day is "Is gold finally coming into its own, recognized as an alternative money?"


GoldiloxGravity#1332556/16/05; 16:50:07

@ Henri and GAB,

Perhaps the most interesting thing about this discussion is how little we really understand about gravity and the analogous effects of other forces.

Sure would like to see gravity "defied" in the POG future!

@ Gandy,

"Who let the dogs out? Whoof, whoof, whoof whoof."

Chris PowellReg Howe's new study#1332566/16/05; 19:13:10

"Gold Derivatives Are Skewing the World."

Latest GATA dispatch.

To subscribe to GATA's dispatches, send an e-mail to:

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

RAPGold & gravity#1332576/16/05; 20:22:45

Paper money, in the form of $100 dollar bills, has 7 times the importance to gravity as gold.
GoldiloxFSO Market Wrap - Jim Willie CB#1332586/16/05; 23:25:29

snip ftom "Commodity Bull Resumption":

Gold rejected the euro fall as a reason to test $400 per ounce. Gold did see prints at 417, but now is above 430. The news media prefers to stress the strong USDollar, when the real story is the faltering euro and the resurgent gold price. Little reported was the firm yen currency and the firm Canadian currency. Nobody seems to attach any connection to the strong crude oil price and the end of the rally in most foreign currencies. Nowhere in the news is how gold is finally rallying in Europe, surely from euro weakness more than from gold strength. Recall that the single-most important item to measure the prospective power of secular deflation is gold. Here we saw gold reject the euro fall and USDollar rise. European politics next dictate more monetary inflation in Europe to match monetary inflation in the USA and monetary inflation in Japan. This is great news for gold.

The GM stock share price jumped over 2 full points last Friday. Few attempted to attribute any reason to the event. It was surely short covering, as it seemed most of the bad news was out. The GM stock price was not to descend any lower, at least not yet. From my viewpoint, this meant the hedge fund community has cleared their trades, had washed the blood off their decks, had taken their lumps, and had completed their cleanup process. Call it no coincidence that on the same Friday, the 10-yr Treasury yield rose from 3.98% to 4.04%, no longer under that critical watermark. Call it no coincidence that on the same Friday, the gold price rose from 424 to 427 per ounce. Call it no coincidence that on the same Friday, the crude oil price rose from 54.6 to 56.8 per barrel. Call it no coincidence that on the same Friday, the HUI precious metal stock index rose from 184 to 192. The Treasury-based spread trade damage had run its course. The commodity bull market has resumed. The USDollar, unlike what many in the gold community contend, is no longer the driving force for gold. It is now worldwide monetary inflation!!! Let's repeat that. On Friday June 10-th, the USDollar became a story on the second page, and …..


In the past week, the financial markets and economic analysts have been scratching their heads trying to figure out what is happening. They guess on how many more USFed rate hikes. It is amusing to watch all the denial or acceptance of the housing market bubble, as the commodity bull climbs its own wall of worry.

TopazAnother Bone jarring EQ in CA.#1332596/17/05; 01:46:15

This one just coming off the boil, a 6.4 in the vicinity of the BIG one earlier this week.
Curious that there's no "lead-in", just whoomp!!.

TopazJust for a change, the SI-CL Cycle.#1332606/17/05; 03:16:00

Ag/Oil are keeping close company at present (and have been for a while) so, it might be worth a watch as we approach the July Delivery window.
Action in May would suggest Ag is on the Launch-pad ...and so too are Ag Lease rates.
It comes down to "whether" there's any to Lease ...if so, LR's will imo top the 2002 spike and threaten the '98, if not, the impact on "price" could be ...ahem!


GoldiloxCA EQ #1332616/17/05; 05:54:53

@ Topaz,

Not sure exactly what you mean by "no lead in", but I suspect that a medium to large quake every day this week may just be a "lead in".

CA-NV weekly event list is now up to 887.

Are these after-shocks? or pre-shocks?

A quick check of the world event map shows strong activity all around the Pacific "Ring of Fire".

Personally, I am stocking up on water and food.

GoldiloxDX action#1332626/17/05; 05:57:20

Down in Europe markets this morning. Will the ESF boyz jump on the US open, as they often do?
White RoseGold and the Bexley rush#1332636/17/05; 06:36:03

I just got back from my reunion from MIT. I had lots of time to remember my freshman year. When I came to MIT, there were many fraternaties and 8 dorms. The first week was an orientation period before classes started. You got to stay for a week in a temporary location while you sorted out where you wanted to live that year.

I stayed in a dorm called "Bexley". It was an amazing place. It was an old apartment building. Each apartment was occupied by about 4 students. One large room for two freshmen, and two smaller rooms for one upperclassman apiece. Each apartment also had a bathroom and a kitchen. In no other dorm did students have so much room and privacy. There were lots of other advantages. You could modify the rooms. here was virtually no supervision. It was a haven for hippies, oriental students and Orthodox Jews (the reasons for this curious demographic breakdown were largely due to the access to kitchen facilities).

A key part of the orientation week was the "Bexley rush". While other living groups tried to recruit students, Bexley discourged them. Students wet down the basement, and told prospective students that the water sometimes came to hip level. The rats and the cockroaches were described in vivid terms. Pots were left with massive mold growths in certain kitchens so that "typical kitches" could be shown.

I quickly saw through the follies, and marked Bexley as "first choice". The "Bexley rush" was so successful and in my freshman year, 7 students were placed in Bexley who marked it as 8th choice (remember there were 8 dorms).

How does this relate to gold? It seems that every form of "investment" has people advertising its wonders. Only for gold are people out there describing the rats and the cockroaches in vivid terms. A few of us wonder why every voice on TV, Newspapers, and financial commentators are so full of vemon on gold and silver. We end up on the internet and finding places like this.

By the way, if anyone has kids going to MIT, tell them to check out Bexley. It is still a swell place (it is legally co-ed now) and they still do the "Bexley rush". I'm sure they have some new twists and evil tales to tell the incoming freshmen that were not thought of when I was there so many years ago.

GoldiloxMitsubishi Materials makes world's largest gold bar#1332646/17/05; 07:12:59


OKYO — Mitsubishi Materials Corp said Thursday it has made the world's largest gold bar weighing 250 kilograms and filed for a listing in Guinness World Records.

The gold bar, valued at 400 million yen (about $3.7 million), measures 45.5 centimeters by 22.5 cm at the base and is 17 cm high, it said. The gold bar, made at its Naoshima refinery in Kagawa Prefecture, will be put on show at a tourist facility in Izu, Shizuoka Prefecture, from July 11. (Kyodo News)


The picture alone is worth the the visit.

Clink!How Brazil is growing itself to energy independence#1332656/17/05; 07:15:32,1,6833300.story

Err, sorry, no snip - it would appear that you can only go to the story once without a subscription. Interestingly, ethanol is also a current topic for the US energy bill passing through the Senate and you can read the latest at,1,6002033.story

Of course, the big question with ethanol is that as it comes from an agricultural process, how much energy is required in the form of tilling/sowing/reaping/extracting compared to the energy output ? There is an interesting, if rather debatable, article which discussed this at the From The Wilderness site.

Food for thought ?

Dollar Bill.,.#1332666/17/05; 07:15:52

The business cycle is broken, or, fixed, by the nwo.
The fed can safely raise interest rates because increased costs for debt repayment are not an issue for the govt.
A downturn that usually effects 80% of stocks is the standard result of interest rate increases. The higher goal has to be to slow down the world economy, and the nwo can do that now without destroying the structure.
No matter what they have to paper over, they can.
As long as the key players are on board, and they sure give no evidence that they are not, and with the EU -problem- out of the way, I dont see Willies trade war scenario anywhere in the cards.
How far the fed will raise interest rates, how much short squeezing will keep stock prices up, how we transition, and to what, how much splashing around in the tub we will do frightened by the prospect of a looming tidal wave of economic destruction, I dont know.
But, I think the big 8, 12, whatever, are all agreed quietly to keep the providing goods and services to one another despite the math.
Despite the confusion, despite the uncertainties.
Gold in hand is there to provide an insurance in case they do the typical human thing, and fail.

GoldiloxBreakout?#1332676/17/05; 07:21:36

I haven't consulted Sanders' currency chart recently, but just went to look at the euro/gold comparison.

Very nice!

Topaz@G'lox re:EQ#1332686/17/05; 07:21:37

It may have been the proximity of the machine? (so close to the epicentre) Usually there's an indicative build-up to the large spikes on the chart as witnessed on more distant seizmograms. I presume the different waves travel at varying speeds.

We really are at nature's mercy G'lox, prudence is warranted I agree.

GoldiloxNWO#1332696/17/05; 07:43:05

@ $ Bill,

As you seem very interested in NWO origins, have you seen the books by David Icke?

"The Truth Will Set You Free", and "The Biggest Secret"

Very interesting investigations on the bloodlines of rulers and the "secret societies". Ever wonder why inbreeding is considered bad for the masses, but practiced rigorously by the ruling classes?

"Every Presidential election since George Washington has been won by the candidate with the greatest number of 'Royal' genes" - from "Burkes Peerage", by Harold Brookes-Baker.

One of the most obvious agenda items for conquest of the New World in the 16-18th Centuries was the desire of the European Royalty to control the mineral wealth, i.e. Gold and Silver

He also discusses the role Freemasonry in the USofA corporation, the FED, and other behind-the-scenes manipulation topics, including the dual-sided participation of rulers in all the major wars and revolutions.

Be prepared for shocking revelations.

Clink!Earthquakes#1332706/17/05; 07:46:13

Ah, give me a goo old hurricane anyday - they're big and you can see them coming from a l-o-n-g way away.
Stay safe, guys.

Nice story, Sir WR. The answer to your rhetorical question is to ask "qui bono ?" Who knows, once the POG gets past $1000 maybe we'll be starting to "rush" It too ?!


GoldiloxIranian Election#1332716/17/05; 07:47:23

CNBC reports that President Bush called the Iranian elections "a farce intended to keep a small ruling party in power".

Is he plagiarizing his script from the hated "liberal press"?

I think I've heard that quote before.

GoldiloxHUI Watch#1332726/17/05; 07:54:41

Broke through 200 this morning - currently sitting at 203.

Gold is strong again this morning as the DX has settled to 88.2x

Gandalf the WhiteYes, Sir Goldilox !#1332736/17/05; 09:08:24

Goldilox (6/17/05; 05:57:20MT - msg#: 133262)
DX action
Down in Europe markets this morning. Will the ESF boyz jump on the US open, as they often do?
LOOK Sir "Lox"
Beautiful WATERFALLS have returned and the POG is "LOOKING GOOD" !
Happy days have returned and should run for a while !
One should have known, as SIR MK called for a CONTEST !!

The Invisible Hand$$$$8,752.0$$$$#1332746/17/05; 09:18:23

$$$$8,752.0$$$$ The Invisible Hand (2/18/02; 01:46:17MT - msg#: 70296)
Confirmation and discussion ****$ 8,752****
I do hereby confirm my guess of ****$ 8,752 ****
Discussion: Although in an earlier post of the last fortnight I said that A/TG predicted an upward surge of 50 bucks a day, I think it would be more precise to say that the gentlemen argue the unexpected move towards $ 30,000 can occur at anytime. It must thus start once. Why not within the 'time limit' of the contest?
Didn't Gandalf say contest?
In the old days, Saturdays used to Trail Guide days.
Maybe tomorrow, again?

USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.A risk-free request, helping you enter the gold market with grace and confidence.#1332756/17/05; 09:30:01">Change paper into gold!
GoldiloxGold Strength#1332766/17/05; 10:12:20

@ Gandalf,

It's nice to see the turn around, before poor "Lox" was turned into a "bagel".

Now if my Giants can continue the mini-rally they have begun in Minnesota, all will be "golden", indeed.

Federal_ReservesReckless and Unsustainable.#1332776/17/05; 10:14:55

Current Account Deficit at 6.4% of GDP !

U.S. Current Account Gap Widens to Record $195.1 Bln in 1st Qtr
June 17 (Bloomberg) -- The current account deficit grew more than expected to a record $195.1 billion from January through March, increasing the U.S. dependence on borrowing from abroad to feed Americans' appetite for imports.

Higher-priced oil and demand for consumer goods from abroad helped widen the first-quarter gap from $188.4 billion in the final three months of 2004, the Commerce Department said today in Washington. The current account is the broadest measure of trade, encompassing financial transfers along with goods and services. The median forecast called for a deficit of $190 billion.

The deficit poses a risk to the economy, because foreign investors who are financing the gap may eventually reduce their dollar-based holdings, say economists including
Federal Reserve Governor Donald Kohn. Interest rates may then go up to attract investment, raising the cost of consumer borrowing.

''It's not a crisis, but it does at least raise a flag that there's a serious imbalance,'' said Doug Porter, senior economist at BMO Nesbitt Burns in Toronto, before
the report. ''The U.S. has to borrow about $2 billion a day from the rest of the world, and there is no doubt it's unsustainable.''

Not a a crisis? That's what a lot of folk on the Titanic said. Hey, its unsustainable but..but what the heck we are unsinkable, full speed ahead through the icebergs in the dark and fog of night!

GoldiloxGold Sets New 7-week High#1332786/17/05; 10:21:55{050A373E-05B4-4B75-A61E-C0A69FF6F0CB}


Gold has attracted strong buying recently, rising against both the euro and dollar, as investors, who are losing confidence in currencies, tout gold as a safe haven investment, analysts said.

Exerting little influence over metals recently, the dollar weakened against the euro after news of a record high current account deficit in the first quarter reignited concerns about how the U.S. will fund the shortfall. See currencies report.

Earlier, the Commerce Department unveiled a record $195.1 billion quarterly current account deficit that amounted to a record 6.4% of gross domestic product.

With the negative sentiment towards the euro following the French and Dutch rejections of the EU constitution and the dollar weighed down by the U.S. structural problems of twin deficits, there's a growing realization that gold and other commodities offer far more stable investment prospects than paper currencies, said James Moore of


YEE-HAW! The real currencies are seeing more interest.

GoldiloxThe Sideways Market#1332796/17/05; 10:28:26

CNBC's Tyler Matheson and his current stock drummer are surmising that profits will need to see a "little more inflation, as long the FED doesn't go crazy with interest rates". They are concerned that "US businesses lack pricing power in this low inflation environment".

Can you say "Clueless", boyz and girlz?

WhitewaterwomanSpiking or upward trend, anyone?#1332806/17/05; 10:35:32

If California gets hit with one more earthquake (after the 4 they've had since Sunday), I may have to second Invisible Hand. Especially if these are foreshocks. (Perhaps God isn't just super-happy with the Michael Jackson verdict?)

Get it, got it, gold = good!

geSome Idle "Back of the Envelope" time estimates#1332816/17/05; 11:14:19

Hamilton says; "Great secular gold bulls tend to go through three stages. Stage One, which runs for the initial third or so, is driven by a currency devaluation in the dominant currency used in world commerce at the time."…He then continues by saying that he suspects that €350 is possibly the major catalyst for igniting Stage Two.

Let us make a rough calculation. Approximate length of stage one is 4 years. Therefore, bull market duration could be about 12 years. Judging that the bull market started at 1999, estimated year for bull market completion is 2011 (1999+12).

Can we make a crosscheck? Last bull market for gold was about 14 years (1966-1980). This places the estimated completion year at 2013. So far so good.

geInterview with Ferdinand Lips#1332826/17/05; 11:49:26

He sounds like FOA.


What do you think about the „ticking timebomb derivatives market" which positions already grow exponentially? In the long term rather a risk or a chance for the gold market?

F. Lips:

Both – but ultimately a chance. Those investors, who have invested in „paper gold" will lose their money with high probability when the bomb detonates. It is possible that the gold price makes a short diver as well, because in panic everything is being sold. This phenomenon could be observed as well on the Black Monday 1987. Admittedly, the gold price then recovered far stronger than the popular stock markets. Whereas at the LTCM debacle the gold price immediately made a big jump to the upside. I am convinced that this time will be different. I believe that gold will already rise gradually in the forefront of a big financial collapse and then explode to the upside. I justify my perception with the fact that we live in a time today where the broad public begins to see slowly but surely. The trust in our paper money system is shrinking virtually daily. Gold is the only currency on which no debts are linked to. I wish that one day we all will live with a new and healthy currency system in which gold again is anchored as a solid fundament.


For how likely do you see a banking crisis (possibly in the "domino effect"?) because of the derivatives markets? When and how fast one could come? Would well-informed paper gold investors have enough time to sell their derived paper or could an impairment of these "assets" come "over night"? Why is it safer to hold mining shares during those times?

F. Lips:

A banking crisis along with a potential domino effect is as certain as the "Amen" at church. Unfortunately, nobody knows how long the timebomb is ticking. By all means, such a crisis can come "over night" and the investors will not have enough time to separate themselves from paper gold or the popular share markets. I recommend the investors to position themselves early enough. A farmer as well is seeding in spring-time to harvest in autumn!

****a couple of paragraphs later****

F. Lips:

Gold and silver must be held physical. I am against metal accounts. However, big amounts of silver are neither easy to buy nor easy to stock.


GoldiloxTiming Estimates#1332836/17/05; 11:55:31

@ ge

If we use the 2001 bubble top as a beginning, it puts us right at the four year point of phase transition.

Either way, we're feeling "winds of change".

GoldiloxDX Waterfall#1332846/17/05; 11:57:18

The falls continue. Now under the "double snowman" figure of 88.
GoldiloxEQ's#1332856/17/05; 12:07:44

@ Whitewaterwoman,

Or perhaps the announced 3X power boost to HAARP is bearing fruit on a Democratic coastline after a very successful Indonesian test run.

Worse yet, maybe the original test is still reverberating, and the idiots can't turn it off.

Why attribute to "GOD" what is perfectly within the capabilities of very human Black Ops goons.

Either way, one-a-day all week has me purchasing extra bottled water and dry foodstuffs.

Waverider$$$$$ 5,550.50 $$$$$#1332866/17/05; 12:08:47

$$$$8,752.0$$$$ The Invisible Hand (2/18/02; 01:46:17MT - msg#: 70296)

Contest??? I'll keep you company TIH, but honestly, I think it was last week and I think that maybe we both missed it...mabye we'll have a jump on the next one! :) Cheers,

geGoldilox#1332876/17/05; 12:11:57

You are right, my math does not add. If 1999 is the bottom then we are 6 six years into this bull market. This places the target at 2017. If 2001 is the bottom then we have travelled 4 years in the bull setting the target at 2013.
mikal@Waverider#1332886/17/05; 12:28:12

Hi. I think IH was thinking there might be Another contest.
Well, just in case your's is a near miss, let me close ranks
...$$$$$5,550.40$$$$. MK will have at least one more
contest before gold guessing gets out of Hand(Invisibly).

osa104cDecision or Turning Point??#1332896/17/05; 12:43:24

Reckless and Unsustainable.
Current Account Deficit at 6.4% of GDP !

''It's not a crisis, but it does at least raise a flag that there's a serious imbalance,'' said Doug Porter, senior economist at BMO Nesbitt Burns in Toronto, before
the report. ''The U.S. has to borrow about $2 billion a day from the rest of the world, and there is no doubt it's unsustainable.''

Mr. Webster's definition of CRISIS is : decision.. the turning point for better or worse......acute?? I think not.

The Hoople$$$$ 2,999.9 $$$$#1332906/17/05; 13:00:21

I'm gonna have to come up with one helluva rumor in the Comex pit to get Lennie's lennings suckered in on this one.
BTW, if I do win this one I'm going to change my handle to "ESF Homie"

GoldiloxUnsustainable? ROTFL#1332916/17/05; 13:37:51

@ osa104c,

You qouted, ''The U.S. has to borrow about $2 billion a day from the rest of the world, and there is no doubt it's unsustainable.''

Last year about this time the figure was $1.5B/day. Can we expect it to be $2.5B/ day next year, or $3B? The snapshot figures are incredible, but the time-plotted growth is even more staggering.

In a period where there is little "perceivable inflation", we watch helplessly while government borrowing and deficits rise geometrically. The admin continues to pimp a story that GDP and tax revenue growth will cover the shortfall. How can this be when more and more jobs are clobbered by the globalists' "free trade" charade? Just float more bonds, the CA governator suggests.

Who's buying this fairy tale and why are they all cavorting in the buff?

TownCrierOil is NOT dropping in response to dollar's recent rally.#1332926/17/05; 14:21:34

NEW YORK, June 17 (Reuters) - U.S. Treasury debt prices ticked lower on Friday but losses were modest as a renewed rally in the oil markets largely obscured a jump in consumer sentiment.

The surge in crude oil prices to a new record high $58.60 a barrel was interpreted as [drumroll, please.......] a positive for bonds.

Traders reasoned that no matter how confident consumers might be, a spike in gasoline prices could prevent them from making those key purchases that keep the U.S. economy going.

"Oil is starting to creep back into the back of people's minds as a potential restraint on the economy," said Alan De Rose, a trader at CIBC World Markets.

"The consumer watches the pump price, they are not so aware of the dollars per barrel," said Kurt Karl, head of economic research from Swiss Re. "There is a lag, so the current oil price will be a shock probably about a month from now."

...The U.S. current account deficit ballooned to a new record in the first quarter, amounting to 6.4 percent of gross domestic product, which many consider to be unsustainably high.

Still, part of the blow-out was pinned on U.S. aid payments to victims of the Dec. 26 Asian tsunami, and analysts expected an improvement in the second quarter.

The University of Michigan's measure of confidence jumped to 94.8 so far this month from 86.9 in May ... analysts warned that the trend could well reverse now that oil was setting fresh records.

^-----(from url)------^

It's a brave new world out there. Choose gold and be ready to face anything that comes your way.


ChallyMarkets maybe not "upside down"??#1332936/17/05; 14:43:02

Now that the dust is settling on the weeks activity, especially after today, maybe all the 'decoupling' talk was premature. Maybe all that happened is that this week, instead of gold FOLLOWING the USDX inversely, it took the view of the $$Euro trading today. Gold may have moved 'meekly' today, but it way way outperformed the buck and the Euro moves earlier in the week......same might be said for the SM which was also moving higher in spite of the $$ rally. The puzzle for me was the transports, (haven't looked today) which were moving higher in spite of the now 'new record' crude prices. Can't see how that makes any sense, unless all those higher costs can be passed along to us, which means more 'non-existant' INFLATION which ought to mean even higher gold.
GOLDILOX- Giants rally? Thought you guys were done with the Twins? btw- Thanks for the whoopin you put on 'em.......GO WHITE SOX!! ;-))

NedSustainable? #1332946/17/05; 15:18:52

Make me laugh!

We all said the lights were going out when oil breached $30 a couple years ago. It's almost double that now.

We all said the dollar was toast when the trade deficit crossed $30 billion a month many, many moons ago. It's almost double that now.

Six months to a year ago the wind-bags like Roach called the whole stinkin' mess unsustainable at 5.2/5.4/5.6% (current acct deficit/% of GDP). They ALL said it was a concern north of 5%, historically once the 5% marker is crossed trouble is next. Looky now.....6.4% and with oil/energy imports growing and unit prices climbing the deficit/GDP ratio gets uglier and uglier.

When do the lights go out? What REALLY is the unsustainable?


P.S: I saw Richard 640's grumblings today.......he is correct. Gold should be putting together a better show w/ the news of the last 2 days, namely the sour TIC report and the 6.4% deficit ratio. Gold should have tacked 20-50 in my not so humble opinion.


Have a golden weekend.

GoldendomeTrends that appear unsustainable probably are#1332956/17/05; 15:49:42

Ned-Ned-Ned: Take a fist full of Valium buddy and relax. You know that no one can call the markets...tops, bottoms, or timing, no matter how much you're not payin 'em for the free info. Sure these folks see that the U.s. is operating way out of the norms. Budget deficits generally matter at least by 5% of GDP, current account deficits and trade deficits--certainly, no other nation has plumbed these levels. Paperization?equals deforestation.

This just goes to show how far the power brokers can push things when they have control of the money supply and can push liquidity where ever they need to and when ever they need to. A whole lot of " 'flatin" goin on. This could continue for a long time yet,IMO, as the momentum really seems to be carrying everyone away. Don't forget either, that we have more canned "Whoop Ass" on hand than the rest of the world combined; that always helps protect that WRC (world reserve currency) from would-be interlopers! Cheers!

USAGOLD Daily Market ReportPage Update!#1332966/17/05; 16:24:40">
The Daily Gold Market Report has been updated.

If you are considering investments in gold we invite you to">request our free introductory information packet detailing the products and services offered by USAGOLD ~ Centennial Precious Metals. We welcome your inquiry and look forward to working with you.

Friday Market Excerpts

June 17 (from MarketWatch & Reuters) -- COMEX August gold futures rose $2.10 to close at $440. At its best level, the contract touched $441.30 an ounce. For the week, the contract moved up $10.7, or 2.5%.

Exerting little influence over metals over the last few weeks, the dollar weakened against its major rivals after news of a record high current account deficit in the first quarter reignited concerns about how the U.S. will fund the shortfall. Earlier, the Commerce Department unveiled a record $195.1 billion quarterly current account deficit that amounted to a record 6.4% of gross domestic product.

Gold has attracted strong buying recently, rising against both the euro and dollar, as investors, who are losing confidence in currencies, tout gold as a safe haven investment, analysts said.

With the negative sentiment towards the euro following French and Dutch rejections of the EU constitution and the dollar weighed down by U.S. structural problems of twin deficits, there's a growing realization that gold and other commodities offer far more stable investment prospects than paper currencies, said James Moore of

Brian Hicks, co-portfolio manager of the U.S. Global Investors Global Resources Fund, said inflationary concerns also helped prop up gold with the recent rally in oil prices.

U.S. light crude prices set a new record high late Friday at $58.60 per barrel on strong fuel demand and a threat from foreign Islamic militants to the U.S. presence in the oil producing country of Nigeria.

"There's a lot of fund buying and gold is strong as can be right now," said Scott Meyers, analyst at Pioneer Futures in New York, who added that some players felt there could be supply issues for the market down the road.

This was because of declining production in the world's top three producers -- South Africa, the United States and Australia -- and a willingness among central banks to hold on to their reserves, they said.

---(see url for full news, 24-hr headlines, market quotes)----

CaradocContest?#1332976/17/05; 16:25:21

Did someone mention a contest? Well, instead of guessing a price for a particular date, let's reverse it and say the price is...

$$$ 6,760 $$$

In short, POG high enough to "balance the books" of the US federal government. (Note that a few years ago, $1,640 would have been high enough, but we all know what the US and its multiple deficits have been doing since then.)

Guesses as to when POG reaches this number could be as a particular date or as a certain length of time after a perticular trigger event takes place. Two advantages of such a contest:
1. Probably no need to hand out prizes for at least several months.
2. When the winner does receive the prize, it will be of significant value.

Not sure whether this counts as a benefit or not, but simply writing the accompanying essay to explain "why" would serve as a catharsis uniquely tailored for each entrant. The scholarly could demonstrate their intellect by explaining the mechanics behind a guess like "24 months after the US government announces the time table under which social security payments will be adjusted based upon need." The intuitive could provide an exegesis of whatever their oracle has whispered to them. And paranoids like me would feel a lot better after having an opportunity to explain how gold will react to any one of (or some particular combination of) the various crises we see looming over the horizon.

Meanwhile, I suspect that this will not be the weekend that North Korea does its first nuke or Yellowstone blows a new caldera or Los Angeles experiences "The Big One." Nor will a massive collapse in the Canary Islands send a worldclass tsunami westward. So spend this weekend being kind to yourself and to those in your life.

Regards to all,


Topaz$25 and/or 25%#1332986/17/05; 16:38:03

Comex Gold Delivery saw a flurry of activity today with 100 contracts worth "on-the-move". A now "tidy" 11K for June. The magical 200K OI (aug) looks good though.
Gold however has begun the re-coupling process as it's now largely a paper play to support an "orderly" decline of the Dollar to sub-85 by endQ2 ...(SM repats)

Will we get to August? Not if Ag has a say. With their window (July) closing, Ag shorts should start to ramp Silver to avoid what promises to be one helluvan interesting Month.

TownCrierUS Comptroller Of Currency Sues NY Atty Gen Spitzer#1332996/17/05; 17:45:32

WASHINGTON -(Dow Jones)- The Office of the Comptroller of the Currency said Thursday it has filed a lawsuit in federal district court against New York State Attorney General Eliot Spitzer, seeking to bar him from interfering in the agency's supervision of national banks.

The suit comes after Spitzer in April opened a probe into possible discriminatory practices in mortgage lending by some nationally chartered banks. Spitzer's move set up a turf war between his office and the OCC, which oversees national banks.

The OCC's action follows the filing earlier Thursday of a lawsuit by the Clearing House Association, a commercial banking group. In its suit, the group asked for a preliminary injunction to prevent Spitzer from conducting inquiries into the lending activities of federally chartered national banks...

According to the Clearing House Association lawsuit, Spitzer's office in April sent letters to the banking units of HSBC Holdings PLC, J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. and Wells Fargo & Co. seeking certain lending data they are required to report to the federal government...

Citing the National Bank Act, the OCC said it forbids state authorities from inspecting the records of national banks or bringing enforcement actions against national banks, except as specifically authorized by federal law.

^---(from url)----^

I wonder how this will shake out.


Smeagol$$$$ 000.0 $$$$#1333006/17/05; 18:48:29

A Contesst with no Quesstion or Horn-blowing deserves an equally resounding Guess, yess... and results to match!

We are 100% certain this will be the ultimate price of It, some day... and ALL who possess It will be the winners!

S. >8-)

goldquestSpitzer#1333016/17/05; 19:12:49

is prosecuting the crooks that the various U S Government agencies should be doing. The lawsuit against him is designed to slow him up, but it won't work! More power to him!
mikalOil price is already tall and erect#1333026/17/05; 21:12:41

Back when lt. sweet crude was $20, $30 or higher was widely considered unthinkable. Now it seems the media has mollified the masses to the point
where "POO isn't yet TOO high".
What if TPTB could have taken alternative energy seriously and expanded exploration and refining capacity and kept it 'off- budget' like the Iraq expenditures?
Instead was it SOP to create a cushion for their already fat shieks and geeks and exalted petroleum products monopoly? Same procedure with exploration and energy stock offerings, IPO's and Trusts buttressed by the ETF, Fed repos etc?
A popular scapegoat for inflation and complaints of skying consumer and producer prices is OIL.
There is no excuse to propagate this ubiquitous economic diversion.
Is it a signal that it's time to ramp up coal and nuclear output and take radical "decisive action" to treat their disease- inflation, and drive-offs at the gas pumps? Is it
time to resurrect "the axis of evil" and military conscription? Is it time to abort nascent impeachment plans in "our" Congress?

Liberty HeadComfort of Gold#1333036/17/05; 22:40:16

40M credit card accounts were hacked recently, but not one ounce of gold was taken.
Gold has all the integrity and honesty of its holder.
Digital fiat has all the integrity and honesty of the weakest link in a rusty trillion link chain.

The Constitution can be ignored, pensions can be defaulted, 401k's can be raided, homes can be foreclosed all with great ease.
It's not so easy to take gold from the hands of someone who is determined to keep it.

To paraphrase an old adage, "You don't have to outrun the MFs, you just have to outrun fiat guy.

Best Wishes

GoldendomeIraqi insurgents, Longterm effects.#1333046/18/05; 00:44:09

Open forum post.

As public support for U.S. action in Iraq begins to wane and revelations regarding static and canned pre-war posturing comes to greater light both at home and in Great Britain, Administration proponents fear --as opponents anticipate-- a 1960's type shift in party allegiances beginning as early as the 2006 congressional elections.

* This week, U.S. Rep. Howard Coble, dean of the North Carolina congressional delegation and an avowedly strong supporter of President Bush said, it's time for the United States to consider withdrawing from war-ravaged Iraq.

Coble, a Republican from Greensboro, is one of the first members of Congress -- Republican or Democrat -- to say publicly that the United States should consider a pullout.

The 10-term congressman, head of the House Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism and Homeland Security, said he is "fed up with picking up the newspaper and reading that we've lost another five or 10 of our young men and women in Iraq."

Coble said he has noticed a shift among his constituents in the 6th Congressional District regarding their feelings about the war. Letters, phone calls and messages that had been overwhelmingly supportive of the war are now about even, his office said.

---In response, the Bush administration declared that setting a deadline would play into insurgent's hands. In effect, allowing them to decrease activity as we prepare to leave and then increasing their mischief again once we have left. No--says the administration. The answer in Iraq is to continue to train their citizen army to protect themselves, while not encouraging the insurgents by limiting by length or material or manpower, our own commitment there.

But is the administration correct in it's assumptions? They have been wrong about Iraq before: In the misinformation regarding the presence of weapons of mass destruction leading up to the war; in the belief that a short war would be followed by a swift and peaceful transition to civilian rule; in the belief that the Allies would be welcomed with flowers in Baghdad as were the GI's that liberated Paris during World War II.

---In his new book, "Dying to Win: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism" -- Robert Pape, points out that suicide terrorism has been a common form of rebellion against occupying forces as far back as Biblical times. Ninety-five percent of suicide terrorist attacks occur as part of coherent campaigns organized by large militant organizations with significant public support. Further, every suicide terrorist campaign has had a clear goal that is secular and political: to compel a modern democracy (largely through the loss of long term public support) to withdraw military forces from the territory that the terrorists view as their homeland. The fact also emerges that military activity overseas while disrupting the terrorists (freedom fighters they would call themselves) does not protect the occupying nation long term from terrorist activity.

---In a recent interview with Diane Rehm, Pulitzer Prize winning author, David McCullough, author of the recently published "1776" said that the American revolutionaries were relentless in the face of superior British forces. Washington, to his credit, would not quit the fight. He made mistakes, but learned from them. One thing that he learned, was that if you do not lose, then eventually, you can win. He would not quit; he would not give up.

Then asked if there were lessons from "1776" that apply today. Mr. McCullough indicated that Washington's attitude would be great inspiration to people today in many walks of life; and further, that the United States would do well to examine it's past when considering it's place in world affairs. Perhaps I'm incorrect, but I took this as an oblique reference to United State's interventions around the world.

---Many, including myself until recently, have wondered: why are the Iraqi insurgents killing so many of their own people? In a recent letter, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, leader of the Iraqi insurgents explained it thus, "These Iraqi's [particularly the police and security forces] are the eyes, ears, and hands of the Americans. They are collaborators with the occupiers of Iraq."

---I fear, that contrary to hopeful administration utterances repeatedly suggesting that U.S. forces have gained the upper hand, these insurgents (like Washington's) will never give up; they will never surrender, they will never quit. The Arab insurgents have the American forces, unfortunately, where they don't want them, but where they are easily accessible (in the Persian Gulf region), that makes our troops constant and local targets. Is time on the side of the insurgents? History would appear to say, yes. In case after case that Robert Pape relates, the occupying nation suffers constant and growing losses, both economic and in personnel. This leads to the eventual loss of support for the occupation at home as total losses rise-- the United States is again, beginning the experience.

* (Portions on Coble from

Knallgoldoil and euro#1333056/18/05; 02:25:32

The recent weakness in the euro gives its operators at least a bit of moving space regarding an oil for euro move.

I do hear voices who point to high oil prices and weak euro exchange rate being a double whammy for the economy of the european continent.

The high euroGoldprice is also being noted in the mainstream media!Gold increasingly seen as an alternative to ALL currencies.Finally'some are waking up.Healthy egoism I think.

And I don't hear much protest from officialdom and banking-not (yet) sure this is a positive.

SmeagolSsspeaking of manipulation, scandals and other ssubtleties...#1333066/18/05; 02:59:50 Snip copy/pasted from "Ageka" in GIM forum, 5/24/04 - a little over a year ago (If one has the time to read the entire (still ongoing!) thread regarding Silver Eagles non-delivery on e-bay at the link, it is a better tale than some that Holly-wood spins... ):

"It is absolutelly impossible to get tubes in Europe
Moreover the best vendors are in Germany and Germany has put US silver on the list of illegal products which carry Tax like 7% and then for breaking the law another tax of 7 %"

Eh, what? Freegold - but not freesilver?...and when we assked the poster further about this a few days ago we got thiss reply:

"I should have said silver is on the restricted list of products. There is always some or other tradewar with the US Like French wines being on the hitlist in the US and I do not follow the politics ; probably the US dumped steel in Germany and they retaliated with an 8% extra tax on American Silver alone and not on Canadian silver base tax is I think 7% but this changes from Euro country to country all have a different silver tax Anyway silver here is like 30% more expensive if you are not a craftsman In the last case you can recuperate the value added tax which you pass
on to the buyer Since it is very hard to import silver and since the buy sell spread is like 50% nobody in his right mind is going to invest here in silver bought in a bank here"

Sss! So much for free markets! High taxes on Silver for other than indusstrial or 'craftsman' use is ssusspiciouss, no? Friendlier to the silver users/manipulators, yess, perhaps? Maybe high taxes and fees contribute to "lack of investor interest" in the metal of the White Face in Euro-zone and elsewhere... even as supplies get thinner?

It would be interessting to know what tribute is levied against Silver and Gold by country... and how much that affects the buying and the using, and the saving - and manipulating, of them.


S. >8^)

When buying Metal...
White or Yellow...
Except at USAGOLD Castle...
Burma Shave

SmeagolNever ever give up#1333076/18/05; 03:17:21

Ssir Goldendome: "---I fear, that contrary to hopeful administration utterances repeatedly suggesting that U.S. forces have gained the upper hand, these insurgents (like Washington's) will never give up; they will never surrender, they will never quit."

Who would not, if it was their country under seige? If the tables were turned, it would be the same tale...

A similar battle has been raging concerning Gold and fiat for centuries... same tale, different names...


SmeagolAch, too much Blue Moon ale...#1333086/18/05; 03:21:39

Ssir Belgian: "In this USDX, we have 50% euro now (instead of Dm)."

Is thiss then why Gold is half the price it should be, in dollars? (grin, cackle)

S. >8-)


For everyone's information:
Based on a United Nations Weapons Inspection Report, dated 06-10-2005, and released by the UNITED NATIONS, from air surveilance inspections since Bush will not let U.N weapons inspectors into IRAQ at this time (that dirty SOB president), agents/chemicals used in the creation of weapons of mass destruction are missing in 109 sites throughout IRAQ! But, wait a minute, I thought there were NO weapons of mass destruction, but now the chemicals and agents are missing. I believe they can all be found in Dick Cheney's basement. (Please exerpt/download the RUSH LINDBAUGH telecast for 06-10-2005 for all the details).

GoldiloxWMD vs." Convenience Stores" - if we only knew#1333106/18/05; 09:12:58

Recently a "crackdown" was launched (I believe it was in Atlanta) against convenience stores who sold the ingredients for making meth-amphetamines on their store shelves. These, unfortunately, are common household chemicals, and it is difficult to ban them.

Notice that there is never any "crackdown" on companies that sell arms or nuclear technology to the likes of North Korea, or helicopters, bio-warfare gases, bacterial agents, or torture technology to Saddam Hussein, South American generalissimos, "Afghan freedom fighters", etc.

As a member of the board of the Swiss (not Russian) company that sold reactor technology to North Korea, Rumsfeld was totally mum about it until he became SecDef and decided it was "a danger to US interests". Then he told Congress that at the time, he believed they would not use it to develop nuclear weapons. Is our SecDef really that naive?

It doesn't take a genius to see that the "intelligence" agencies are often running profitable enterprises on both sides of every conflict, and are ignored on purpose so they can maintain "control" of the arms and drug trades.

Historically, 'the company" was arming both Castro, Ho Chi Min, Noriega, Saddam, and even Osama bin Laden right up to the moment they decided these guys were "bad" and started started vilifying and attacking them.

The levels of secrecy in our "free" society have obscured this knowledge from the media and the masses, so it's easy to label someone ally on Tuesday and belligerent by Thursday.

This "national security" mentality has overflowed into the markets, as well. We see settlements in the ENRON and Blanchard suits that lay no blame - but just pass money from some big hands to other big hands. Then they declare everything "fixed". One can be reasonably sure that truly nothing has changed at all, and perhaps new methods of obscuring the facts are the only outcome of such blatant legal manipulations.

One has to wonder if the desire to "fix" SSI is wrought from the same forge of deception.

New Orwellian definitions:

broken - adjective,
Investigative light has been shed on shady anti-policy dealings that benefit the dealer but threaten public health or welfare.

fix - verb
Impose new circumvention of public watchdog efforts so that the shady dealings can continue in the darkness of obscurity.

GoldiloxThe "massage" never changes#1333116/18/05; 09:26:55

@ GoldenDome,

Your quote, "---In response, the Bush administration declared that setting a deadline would play into insurgent's hands. In effect, allowing them to decrease activity as we prepare to leave and then increasing their mischief again once we have left. No--says the administration. The answer in Iraq is to continue to train their citizen army to protect themselves, while not encouraging the insurgents by limiting by length or material or manpower, our own commitment there."

. . . comes right from the words of the Nixon campaign who undermined the Paris peace talks during the 1972 election so they could bomb Hanoi soon after taking office and stretch out an unpopular war effort another four years. Just cut and paste "VietNam" over "Iraq".

Can Dubya be so short-sighted that he doesn't see his message on the Iranian elections comes straight from the mouths of his own 2004 detractors?

So much is said about the "very smart" messaging apparatus of the politicians. They never invent new messages. They are just smart enough to know that the masses have been dumbed down sufficiently that only a little spin doctoring is required.

GoldiloxBurma Shave - LOL#1333126/18/05; 09:37:50

@ Sir Smeagol,

You date yourself, friend, by recalling these friendly, but nearly extinct "signs along the path".

As we have regressed from "textual" to "visual" stimuli, their replacements are usually bikini-clad promoters of some fantasy I can never obtain.

"A picture is worth a thousand (dollars worth of) words" to the advertiser.


GoldiloxNew CA-NV EQ total#1333136/18/05; 09:46:30

$$$$$ 5440 (or fight) $$$$

My question of the other day may find an answer sooner that I suspected.

Although we have not experienced additional large magnitude quakes in the last 36 hours, the CA-NV total measurable events is now at 957 for the week, more than triple the average of 250-300 we have seen in recent years.

Now if we can just see that $500/oz gold figure catch up. Are we witnessing a tortoise/hare contest here?

What? CONTEST? Who said "CONTEST"?

USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.Serving gold investors for over 30 years, now serving you 24 hours each day!#1333146/18/05; 10:42:15">gold -- a global calling card
Gandalf the WhiteOK -- a QUESTION for Sir Smeagol !!!!!#1333156/18/05; 10:57:03

Are you possible speaking of the "Blue Moon" within the Emerald City ?

Gandalf the Whiteoops#1333166/18/05; 10:59:06

Clink!Burma Shave ?#1333176/18/05; 11:46:07

Being neither of the right origin nor age to appreciate the joke, I did a quick Google for the young-uns and furrners. My favorites were :-

Drinking drivers
Nothing worse
They put the quart
Before the hearse.

Dinah doesn't
Treat him right
But if he'd shave
Burma Shave

The wolf
Is shaved
So neat and trim
Red Riding Hood
Is chasing him


Goldendome350 Euro more significant than $500 Gold!?#1333186/18/05; 11:51:49

In the linked article, Adam Hamilton makes his point that gold breaking and holding above the 350 Euro mark for some time, is much more significant than would be gold hitting the $500. mark here in the U.S. while leaving the Euro gold price behind.

As pointed out before on this forum by our fellow knights, the price of gold in Euros has been "stinko" for the past three years in Euro terms as the price continued to move up the ladder in U.S. dollar terms.

350 and above writes Hamilton, has had his e-mail and phone going crazy as new investors are beginning to see a possible secular gold bull outside the dollar. (In all currencies)

He makes a point that even a rise in the Euro coupled with a fall in the dollar and corresponding dollar increases in the gold price, will keep the Euro price in gold strong enough to spark and maintain stage 2 of the Gold bull market.

Friday I believe, the Euro gold price settled between 357 and 358 and has been above 350 for over a week now.

CaradocBlair and Chirac square up over EU cash#1333196/18/05; 12:32:16

Snip from middle of article in today's Scotsman:

On the eve of the 190th anniversary of the Battle of Waterloo, Britain and France were once again pitted against one another in a struggle to determine which will shape the future of the continent.

And once again, Belgium provided the battlefield, this time the EU's drab concrete headquarters in Brussels.

Underlining the sour relations between them, the British and French leaders did not meet one-on-one during the two-day summit. Instead they communicated through intermediaries and by speeches in the group meetings of all 25 EU leaders.

Mr Chirac - wounded by the death of the EU constitution - yesterday mounted a rearguard action to rally support around a plan that could cost Britain £6 billion over the 2007-2013 budget period.

The fight over the budget has become a symbol of a broader conflict over what the EU should be: a broad free-market association of open economies or a politically integrated and protectionist "social Europe".

Mr Blair has insisted he would only accept any change to the rebate if it were accompanied by a wider reform of the EU budget, and especially cuts to the Common Agricultural Policy subsidy programme.

This gives French farmers about £7 billion a year, more than a quarter of the EU's total farm spending. And Mr Chirac, badly in need of domestic support, cannot afford to anger France's powerful farm lobby.

The directly opposing domestic pressures on Mr Blair and Mr Chirac last night brought the summit to an end without an agreement, something the European Commission has warned will mean a leadership crisis that could paralyse the EU.


I admit I do not know anything about the ENRON lawsuit retribution proceeds ($8 billion, I think from big hand to other big hands with no blame), but the proceeds from the BLANCHARD lawsuit will go from big hands (BARRICK AND JPM) to little hands (goldbugs), who upon receipt of the settlement proceed to invest into real money will undoubtable affect the market and provide some justice to the real faulted parties. Its not perfect, but it is as good as BLANCHARD could get under the circumstances. Better than anybody else has achieved for 5000 years.
TownCrierRECAP: Current account trade deficit reaches all-time high#1333216/18/05; 16:44:41

(AP) WASHINGTON -- The deficit in the broadest measure of international trade rose to an all-time high of $195.1 billion from January through March of this year as the country sank deeper into debt to Japan, China and other nations.

The Commerce Department reported Friday that the deficit in the current account rose by 3.6 percent from the previous quarter...

...the deficit now represents 6.4 percent of the total U.S. economy, also a record as a percentage of the gross domestic economy.

The current account deficit has risen to record heights in recent years as America's demand for foreign goods and services has soared, raising worries about the country's ability to continue financing a trade deficit at such heights.

...economists worry that at some point foreigners may lose their enthusiasm for dollar-denominated investments and begin dumping their holdings in U.S. stocks and bonds.

Such a development could cause interest rates in the United States to soar and push the value of the dollar and stocks down sharply. If the reaction were severe enough, it could push the country into a recession.

^-----(from url)----^

Individuals (and central banks) diversify into gold saving (and reserves) so as not to be left holding a bag of fading promises at the end of the day.


BoilermakerPlate Tectonics#1333226/18/05; 17:05:22

Just musing on the possibility that the sudden release of the geological stress along the West Coast might be the trigger for the sudden release of the financial stress that's been building for decades. Both stresses are hidden from the view of most. Both stresses will be relieved. Gold is a protection against financial earthquake. The geo kind suggests living in a tent. You guys and gals be careful out there.
mackattackSo let blanchard buy $8 billion publicly!#1333236/18/05; 18:42:32

If this was done for the goldbugs,then let them take that money and publicly buy $8 billion in physical gold.Dont they believe in gold?They have certainly said there is nowhere else to keep money,have they not?The proof this is a feeble win at best is that Blanchard takes the $8 billion in fiat.Why didnt Bill Murphy insist they be paid in bullion?I don't trust gata,blanchard,the system or anyone who says this is a great day for gold because of this settlement.Buy physical Mr blanchard/gata and then ill be impressed.
Goldilox$8 Billion#1333246/18/05; 19:51:36

@ Mackattack,

The $8 billion number was the cumulative of the ENRON settlements, not the Blanchard settlement. I don't think those numbers were released to the public.

I like your thinking, however.


For everyone's information:
This lawsuit was/is for goldbugs! Goldbugs will be compenated for damages! They (goldbugs) will buy gold with their settlement money! Bill Murphy is not a party to the lawsuit, Donald Doyle/Blanchard is! The settlement amount with JPM has not been disclosed!

heavy mettlePossible EU unification scenario #1333266/18/05; 20:40:01

Caradoc's msg#: 133319)

At least to me, there always seems to be a motive for outcomes similar to the French and Dutch ‘no’ vote beyond the usual rationale. With rigged voting mostly just a formality in these times, why would the people be given a chance to lead something as important as a 500 page constitution? Well, possibly because it was meant to fail in the short term.

If anyone has read Ron Paul's piece on the Neo-con's long list of demands for the UN, there exists the possibility that a crisis develops whereby the UN is generously offered relocation to Brussels as those nasty Neo-cons want to run everything. This would please most Americans. Very easily the UN's shell could be stepped into slowly by EU bureaucrats as a governing body for an ailing crisis ridden EU economy in the future.

EC > EU > UN - thesis / antithesis / synthesis.

Sure this scenario is full of holes, but it only takes an unforeseen crisis a la 9/11, tsunami, genocide, etc., to get freedoms pulled, to see large scale mobilization, to get war enacted, etc. Before such crisis, no one would entertain the though that any of the results would even be possible let alone come about.

Just my 2 cents on an open forum weekend.

The Invisible HandThe Invisible Hand at work#1333276/18/05; 21:04:17

After the rejection of the Constitution, the EU budget has been rejected.
The reason why the EU needs so much money (Why can they not earn money in a honest way, like you and me, Ah no, they are government) is because of its Common Agricultural Policy (CAP).
Why don't they abolish the CAP and re-institute a market in agricultural products? Market without Monopoly money but with real euros.
Britain's socialist government, led by Tony Blair, takes over the six months rotating presidency of the Council of the EU on July 01, 2005.
Not possible that socialist government breaks up the CAP? Look at tomorrow's Observer's Business frontpage,6903,156039,00.html

Blair vows to break up CAP for Africa's sake
Tony Blair will warn his European partners in the final two weeks before the crucial Gleneagles G8 summit that unless they dismantle the £30 billion Common Agricultural Policy, Africa will never free itself from poverty.

How Europe cheats Africa
Heather Stewart describes how the EU's cosseted farmers are helping to keep a continent in poverty.

Campaigners against the CAP

Subsidies that breed poverty
Africa is dumped on and locked out. It can't trade its way out of its malaise because rich countries protect powerful interests.

UK Prime Minister Tony Blair said the rebate was needed to compensate for the distortions caused by agricultural subsidies, the biggest beneficiary of which is France.;jsessionid=0XIBRQQREVFHXQFIQMGSM5OAVCBQWJVC?xml=/news/2005/06/19/neu19.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/06/19/ixportaltop.html&secureRefresh=true&_requestid=15885
Tony Blair faces a bruising six-month stint as president of the European Union as Jacques Chirac plots revenge for this weekend's summit showdown in Brussels.
President Chirac is planning to disrupt both Britain's EU presidency, which is about to begin, and Mr Blair's hosting of the G8 summit of leading industrialised nations in Gleneagles next month
With Britain set to take over the EU presidency, the prospect is for more of the same for six months. Mr Blair is making it known that he believes ordinary Europeans support his desire to "modernise" the EU, and plans to appeal to them over the heads of their leaders. If the stage were not already set for further crisis and disarray, such a campaign should ensure further bitter recriminations.


If even socialists are speaking about breaking up the CAP, I don't see why the A/FOA?TG story about the euro could not become through. I would like help in finding the link.

The 4th century BCE Aristotle defined intuition as the ability to hit upon the correct basic principles of nature. This ability is necessary for Aristotle to make the right deductions, scientific knowledge consisting of deductions from more basic principles of nature (The Cambridge Companion to Aristotle, p. 206).

My intuition tells me that something is happening.

Let me quote from the backcover of the 20 YEARS OLD book by a member of the European Parliament (Richard Cottrell, "The Sacred Cow – The Folly of Europe's Food Mountains", London: Grafton Books, 1987):
The bizarre inside story of the bureaucratic folly and extravagance which have paralysed and all but bankrupted the EEC, and made swollen food mountains and wine lakes into permanent features of the European landscape.
... [The book] reveals how the sacred cow of Europe's CAP is leadiuing us toward a world food crisis.
(The Invisible Hand: see Bob Gelfdof's band aid
In creating the greatest agricultural machine in history, the European countries have crushed the fragile economies of Third World nations, while in Europe the balance of nature has been destroyed by agricultural over-production.
... [The book] prersents a challenging case for the ending of all forms of state support for agriculture. It is a case which has to be answered if the POLITICAL (emphasis by The Invisible Hand) collapse of Western Europe is to be averted.

That was 20 years ago. Now Blair has brought us there. The euro has now left puberty and can ....

"May you live in interesting time." (Chinese proverb)

masAnd? So whats your answer? All I see is people talking after the fact.#1333286/19/05; 07:13:23

What has Tony done for the EU? Besides belittle it, anything else? Anything contructive come out of his government lately? Have you ever seen the joker next to the king?
Why doesn't the UK pull it's self out of the EU, be best for all....
Maybe they can go park the island next to Manhatan?
Always complaining and never contributing, so the answer from poverty rock is?

I find this piece to have relevance to both Anglo Saxon countries.
Are you a service economy?

Can We Be Of Service?:
In about half a century, the US has "evolved" from a manufacturing to a service-based economy.
From the latest US employment data, we see that last month, there were a total of 133.4 million jobs
reported by the Labor Department (up 1.5% over the past year). But what KIND of jobs are these? At
14.3 million, US manufacturing employment declined 0.3% over the past year. It now makes up just over
10% of the total workforce. Government positions were up 0.8% to 21.7 million. The US has a
population of close to 300 million. Using UN and OECD data and scaling all the world's economies to
the same scale (in this case the scale used is population numbers), the entire US economy fits near
perfectly in the bottom third of the grouping of THIRD WORLD economies.

masAnd...#1333296/19/05; 07:22:06

That Is The USA Today:
Now look again at the US economy, with 21.7 million people "employed" by government and standing
opposite to those in US industry, the part of the economy which produces economic goods which can later
all be consumed or worn out over time. US industry employs only 14.3 million people. The rest of the
employed population works either in government or in services. There are 97.4 million people employed
in services and 21.7 million in government, all carried by the 14.3 million in industry.

masMaybe the King and Joker are really after the big prize?#1333306/19/05; 07:27:22

From the Privateer as always....

Waging Peace:
The Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI) has produced its annual yearbook. With an
expenditure of $US 455 Billion, the United States accounted for almost half the global figure on military
spending, more than the combined total of the 32 next most powerful nations. SIPRI is widely recognized
for the reliability of its data. In 2003, US spending stood at $US 405 Billion. "The major determinant of
the world trend in military expenditure is the change in the United States, with its 47 percent of the world
total," the Swedish institute said. This is an entirely un-historic imbalance, it is something entirely new in
terms of world history. When one nation stands with armament expenditures this out of gear with any
GENUINE national defence needs, one must look for the real answer elsewhere.
Here it is: The US Department of Defence (DOD) currently lists SEVEN HUNDRED AND TWENTYFIVE
(725) official US military bases located OUTSIDE the USA.
In Iraq, US forces currently occupy 106 bases ranging in size from the sprawling Camp Victory complex
near Baghdad's international airport (where the US military command is headquartered) to outposts with
as few as 500 soldiers. US military commanders have now prepared plans to consolidate American troops
in Iraq into the four large air bases as they look ahead to giving up more than 100 other bases now
occupied by international forces, American officers have said.
This is historic, because it is the military footprint of Empire with expenditures to match. It is an Empire
which vastly exceeds the past historical cost of any prior Empire. The only motive which is in keeping
with the scale is an attempt by the US Administration to gain and hold GLOBAL domination.
The Pivot Of Empire:
The "problem" is that the financial underpinnings for this US Empire are utterly dependant upon the US
Dollar's current global standing as an international reserve currency. Were it otherwise, were the US
Dollar just a large regional currency, not only would the US not be able to place its US Dollars in ever
climbing volumes into the vaults of other Central Banks around the world, but the US would find it
necessary to hold other nation's currencies as ITS reserves.
It is THAT which the US does NOT have to do today. It does not need to hold any other nation's money
as the official reserve behind its own national currency. Once it does (and it will), the current US Empire
will go the way of the former British Empire, which disappeared when the Pound lost its reserve status.

masMessages 133319 & 133327#1333316/19/05; 07:52:36

Nice to have the King's toy's parked in your back yard, isn't it? They can go anywhere they like and you can't stop them. How does that feel with your bank account?
Joker allows this to happen in Scottish territory? I'm surprised this didn't get more attention from the Scottish people or maybe they were misinformed?

The G-8 Global Window Of Temptation:
When the G-8 Summiteers arrive in Scotland, the Scots themselves might wonder what they have done to
deserve it. A US aircraft carrier packed with hundreds of US Marines will be anchored off the west coast
of Scotland during the G-8 summit, according to US security sources. A US assault ship, also laden with
attack helicopters, is expected to be dispatched as the United States armed forces prepare their own
massive security operation to protect the President, George Bush, during the Gleneagles Summit in July.
A fleet of Galaxy C-5 planes carrying armoured limousines and the helicopters that will take Bush and his
entourage to the venue is expected to touch down at Prestwick airport. Of course, all the other leaders
will arrive with their own security details, all of which combined will not rival the US one.

GoldiloxThe Joker and the King#1333326/19/05; 08:40:33

@ mas,

Makes me think of one of the best Rock and Roll image songs ever written, and very pertinent to these days, as well.

"Now, for ten years we've been on our own
And moss grows fat on a rolling stone
But that's not how it used to be
When the Jester sang for the King and Queen
In a coat he borrowed from James Dean
And a voice that came from you and me.
Oh and while the King was looking down,
The Jester stole his thorny crown.
The court room was adjourned.
No verdict was returned.
And while Lennon read a book on Marx
The quartet practiced in the park
And we sang dirges in the dark
The day the music died."

Don Mclean, of course

DryWasherCongressman Ron Paul Video on the Iraq war.#1333336/19/05; 10:18:40

"June 14, 2005:
Congressman Paul and Congressman John Duncan of Tennessee discuss why true conservatives should oppose the undeclared and unnecessary war in Iraq (approximately 50 minutes)."

DryWasher Comment:
Dr. Paul describes the impact of the war, including the economic impact, which should be of particular interest to the readers of this forum. Well worth the time to watch it in my opinion.

USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.Your friend in the business, helping you enter the gold market with grace and confidence.#1333346/19/05; 10:31:35">Get a head start on the gold market!
TownCrierDubai gold exchange...#1333356/19/05; 12:10:46

19/6/2005, (UAE) -- Dubai Gold and Commodities Exchange is the only borderless commodities exchange in the world, according to a board member.

The trading systems on the DGCX are already in place and trading will take off by the third quarter of the current year, according to officials.

DGCX has said it will float a fully-owned subsidiary to carry out the settlement of trades on the exchange.

The establishment of DGCX will not only help protect Dubai traders against price volatility, but will also confer on Dubai a global recognition, and enable the exchange to set new price benchmarks for gold.

In the process, Dubai will act as new reference points for gold prices, especially on Saturdays and Sundays when all other exchanges remain closed, it has said.

^-----(from url)-----^

Stepping forward toward a brave new world.


TownCrierGold Souq to glisten in summer fair#1333366/19/05; 12:19:59

19/6/2005, (UAE) -- Dubai is known as the city of gold and one of the main tourist destinations is the Gold Souq, where the glow of the yellow metal and the plethora of designs attract people from across the globe.

It is one of the most-visited destinations each year during the Dubai Summer Surprises.

"The big campaign organised each year encourages people to make big glistening buys during the major summer event."

"This year we experienced a growth of about 13 per cent in the first five months compared with the same time of last year. DGJG will announce its campaign soon and is expecting a big increase in the number of shoppers and a sales growth of 25 per cent during DSS."

^---(from url)----^

Rising demand for gold.


Great Albino BatToday, when our world is visibly falling apart....#1333376/19/05; 12:52:57

Let us listen to Thomas Hodgkin, writing in "Italy and Her Invaders" (Oxford, 1885 . Vol. III):

"God save the King!" - words how lightly spoken by revellers at a banquet, or by shouting crowds as a monarch moves slowly through their midst! Yet in this familiar formula are enshrined two words of mysterious power, which have come down with the stream of national life, 'through caverns measureless to man,' from those distant highlands wherein the eye of science strains, and strains in vain, to discover the origins of the human race and of human society. To argue from the ancient origin of these two names or power that there is any necessary connection between them; to aminatin, ad the advocates of the divine right of kings once did, that religion forbids men to govern themselves under republican forms, however clear it may be that the State will best be so administered, is an absurdity of which few men will now be guilty.

[Note by the GAB: perhaps if Hodgkin were alive today, he would not think it so absurd, given the results we are witnessing, of "republican forms of government".]

But, nevertheless, it is permitted us to gaze, with a wonder in which there is something of love and something of reverence, on this wonderful world, so different in form in the various languages of the earth, - Melech, Basileus, Rex, Thuidans, King, - yet so essentially the same in power, which constrains the many members of one vast community, her strong men, her wise men, her holy men, to bring the best of their gifts to the treasury, and to devote the strength of their lives to the service of one man, in mind and body no different from themselves, but - a King.

Reverence for the kingly office seems to have been deeply implanted in the heart of the Germanic branch of the great Aryan family; and it has been, in the World-life, the especial function of the Germanic peoples to carry kingship and faithfulness to the king, or - to borrow two words from the Latin tongue - Royalty and Loyalty, farther down into the ages than any other group of free nations. How early the old Homeric royalties of Greece and the kings of Rome disappeared from the scene we all know. On the other hand, the long-lived royalties of Assyria, of China and of Persia, were mere despotisms, giving no free play to the national character, and stiffening the peoples that were subjected to them with immobility. To reign in such terms, to be the master of millions of slaves, was comparatively and easy task, when once the nation had become used to the clank of its fetters.

[The GAB: Is this what now awaits us?]

But to maintain for generations, to prolong into the strangely different world of modern society, that peculiar combination of kingly authority and popular freedom which was characteristic of most of the Germanic royalties in the first century after Christ, and which contained the seeds of the institution which we now call Constitutional Monarchy - this has been a great and marvellous work, and one which could only be accomplished by a race with exceptional faculties for governing and being governed.

The GAB - monarchist at heart, and goldbug.

GoldiloxCSPAN - Downing St Memos and the Iraq War#1333386/19/05; 14:33:06

Since Thursday, they have been airing segments of the Congressional hearings on the Downing St memos and the effects of the "intelligence revolution" on the Iraq war.

Some very prominent career intelligence officers are saying things like "If Boulton is confirmed, those career intelligence officers who haven't already left will resign, as there is no sense in serving under an admin that only considers "intel" as spin for preconceived war plans."

- Ray McGovern

Ambassador Wilson is also participating, whose CIA agent wife was revealed publicly by the White House in response to Joe's concern over the validity of pre-war intelligence, ending her CIA career and placing all her assets in danger of enemy retaliation.

The meetings are takign place in a basement room in the Capitol, but at least it is not being aired at 3AM.

After two Republican Congressmen expressed concerns that Iraq was definitely becoming the next VietNam, it looks like some other than kooks and conspiracy nuts are beginning to question the admin's justification for war.

mikalGold Banker Lips latest interview#1333396/19/05; 17:19:41 "Swiss Banker Ferdinand Lips talks about gold"
Like me you may not agree with every point, but
should appreciate the solid insight
and perspective offered in reply to the interviewer's
very incisive questioning.

GoldiloxDx Gap#1333406/19/05; 19:22:09

Interesting gap up on the DX in Asia, but starting to fill back.
GoldiloxAust dollar climbs higher#1333416/19/05; 21:29:14

The Australian dollar is higher this morning after a rise in the price of commodities including gold and copper.

At 7:30am AEST the Australian dollar was buying 77.67 US cents, which is up 0.27 on Friday's close.

The dollar gained 2.2 per cent last week after copper prices reached a 16-year high and gold traded at its highest in seven weeks.

The local currency is usually influenced by changes in the price of metals because raw materials account for around 60 per cent of exports.


The week begins!

GoldiloxRands and bonds - 20 June 2005#1333426/19/05; 23:24:26


Johannesburg - The rand raced to its best levels in over a week on Friday in the wake of a flagging dollar and perky gold prices, traders said.

At 5pm the rand was bid at R6.6525 to the dollar, 15.25c stronger than at the same time on Wednesday. Local markets were closed for the holiday on Thursday, but on that day in New York the rand ended at R6.68.

Earlier on Friday the rand hit a nine-day peak of R6.6505, lifted by gold, which benefited from renewed fund interest to fix at $437.50 in London afternoon trade.

Dealers said the rand backed off its intraday high as importers sold dollars. They said gains this week would depend on the euro, which is the currency of South Africa's main trade partner.

One Johannesburg dealer expected the rand to "be pretty rangebound" this week, but said the euro got a nice bounce on Friday. "If that continues, the rand could come under pressure to go lower [stronger].


The scurrying of currency mice throughout the global attic.

TopazBonds Dollar 'n whatnot.#1333436/20/05; 01:50:53

I thought I'd toss in Ag as I believe THIS is where all the action will be as we move into July.

Most disconcerting POO! We are seeing a situation developing where Dollars (and all that hang off her) are not containing price. This must be causing (those who hold Bonds as Oil proxies) some concern.

GAB ...M-GB! Now there's a minority group if ever there was one.

Topazalt-currency Gold.#1333446/20/05; 02:15:10

Whilst I'm not too thrilled with the scalings, this one clearly shows PoG's "out-performance vis the "other" currencies lately.
The last time through here -$338ish, the equivalent DX was approx 83.6 ...time before that, 82.6.

The Invisible HandEuro godfather commends lira's return#1333456/20/05; 03:49:47;jsessionid=A3GOSG1QYCVZZQFIQMGCM5OAVCBQUJVC?xml=/money/2005/06/20/cneuro20.xml&menuId=242&sSheet=/money/2005/06/20/ixcity.html&secureRefresh=true&_requestid=23513

A leading currency expert [Stanford professor Ronald McKinnon] and "godfather" of the euro has suggested [at a European Central Bank conference in Frankfurt] that Italy might be better off abandoning monetary union, given the harsh sacrifices required to remain in the system.
Robert Mundell, the Nobel Prize-winning theorist of currency unions, told the ECB conference that Italy faced certain "disaster" outside EMU, warning that interest rates on its huge public debt (106pc of GDP) would spiral out of control.
Otmar Issing, the ECB's chief economist, said: "Several countries did not fully understand what signing the Maastricht Treaty and joining EMU would imply."

The Invisible HandIt's politics stupid, or is it?#1333466/20/05; 07:04:51

In the final post of the day before yesterday I quoted the backcover of Richard Cottrell's book "The Sacred Cow – The Folly of Europe's Food Mountains" (London: Grafton Books, 1987) saying that the book presents a challenging case for the ending of all forms of state support for agriculture and that the case has to be answered if the POLITICAL collapse of Western Europe is to be averted.

Now (in today's third post)I quoted, Otmar Issing, the ECB's chief economist, saying that: "several countries did not fully understand what signing the Maastricht Treaty and joining ECONOMIC and Monetary union would imply."

The Maastricht Treaty was signed by the EU, then EC, member-states on February 07, 1992. The treaty consisted of two texts, the text on joining ECONOMIC and Monetary Union and text concerning POLITICAL Union.

The budget disagreement due to agriculture has destroyed the POLITICAL Union.

Is the ECONOMIC Union also going to be destroyed? Not according Klaus-Uwe Benneter, the General Secretary of the German socialist party (remember that it is Tony Blair's socialist party which brings the EU's Common Agricultural Policy (CAP) to an end – see the final post of the day before yesterday), who says Europe must go into the offensive of representing the European idea.

It's an interview in the German weekly Der Spiegel under the title "Europa ist sicher nicht am Ende"- "Europe is certainly not at its end",1518,361158,00.html
Benneter: Nein, Europa ist sicher nicht am Ende. Aber wir müssen die europäische Idee jetzt offensiv vertreten - das heißt nicht populistisch und opportunistisch, wie CDU/CSU und FDP das jetzt tun. Sie meinen, man müsse Europa jetzt abschreiben oder könne die europäische Idee dazu benutzen, Ängste zu schüren.

attempt at translation
Benneter: No, Europe is certainly not at its end, but we must go in the offensive to advocate it, that is not in a populistic and opportunistic way like the christian-democratic party and the liberal party. They think we should forget Europe or that we could use Europe to frighten people.
FOA (2/23/2000; 19:49:22MT - msg#6)
Our most broad view, expressing our strongest position is this: From ten or perhaps twenty years ago A POLITICAL WILL, a concept was being formed that would today change the economic architecture and power structure of the world. Within this change, gold would undergo one of the most visible transformations since it was first used as money. We expect that starting three or four years ago, the actual gold market itself, started responding to this sea change. As such, in our time, physical gold will enter the greatest bull phase in it's human use history.

Conclusion ???
You tell me! Gij ook!

TownCrierHEADLINE: Are gold and oil due a 20-year boom?#1333476/20/05; 10:19:28,,9556-1659549,00.html

June 19, 2005 (Times Online) -- COMMODITY prices are heading back to record highs after the spring's sell-off and the City is once again talking of a 20-year bull run in the sector.

The commodity market is not for the faint-hearted, however. Mining shares can be extremely volatile: they slumped by nearly 10% in April, one of their biggest one-month falls for 20 years, before staging their recent comeback.

Even analysts who believe that commodities are in the midst of a long-term bull cycle accept that there are signs of a bubble in some parts of the market, especially among small oil and mining stocks quoted on the Alternative Investment Market.

Shares in Regal Petroleum, an AIM-quoted oil firm, have lost nearly 90% of their value in the past two months after the company was forced to admit that a much-hyped oil discovery off the coast of Greece was not commercially viable.

Philip Richards, manager of RAB Special Situations, said: "There are some great opportunities, but also big potential pitfalls."

Despite the risks, he believes that the commodity market is in the midst of a "supercycle" — a 20-year bull market fuelled by the industrialisation of China and India.

Richards said: "If you look at history, there have always been supercycles in demand for commodities. There was a super- cycle during the British industrial revolution, during America's huge period of growth before and after the second world war and during Japan's industrialisation in the 1970s."

Now it is the turn of China. ... As China's economy expands, it is sucking in raw materials to build up its infrastructure, including roads, power stations and factories.

Goldman Sachs, the investment bank, has even forecast that the oil price could hit $100 a barrel in the event of a "supply shock"...

...Graham French of M&G Global Basics has recently cut back his holding in Cameco, a Canadian uranium miner trading at 40 times earnings — a valuation reminiscent of the tech bubble.

French said: "Whenever there is a bull market in commodities, a bubble always develops among the smaller stocks. It happened in the early and mid-1990s with gold shares.

"Some people will make a lot of money from the bubble, but when you are running a fund for the average saver, you have to stick with good long-term bets..."

^-----(from url)----^

A good reminder that owning shares in a company is not a proxy for owning the product that's in demand. Recent years have amply demonstrated that stocks, by their nature, are at risk from many angles. Therefore, if you believe as I do that gold is poised to rise, then don't risk side-stepping the bull run by attempts to gain leverage with nearby investments that aren't exactly gold. Choose the gold itself -- take the bull(ion) by the horns and let it carry you along directly.

Choose gold coins and bullion if you want to make the most of this bull market.


TownCrierGold (mining) sector struggles despite price#1333486/20/05; 10:35:26

20 June 2005, (Reuters) -- Nearly half of gold output in SA, the world's top-ranking producer, is struggling to make a profit due to high costs despite the recent spike in gold prices, the Chamber of Mines said today.

"The industry is not out of the woods yet," said Roger Baxter, chief economist at the Chamber.

A combination of a weaker rand currency and a rally in the dollar gold price has meant the local gold price has shot up 15% over the past six weeks to a 17-month peak.

But high costs mean that many mines are still either in the red or close to it, Baxter told Reuters in an interview.

In the first three months of the year, around 86% of gold production was either loss-making or marginal, he said.

Production fell....

In late March, the country's fourth largest gold producer DRDGOLD closed its loss-making North West mines...

"the industry at the moment is focused on cost and productivity issues," he said.

"The challenge has been rises in production costs. Last year production costs before capital expenditure rose by 13,4%. The year before that, they rose by 9%, way above inflation and way above what this industry can really afford," Baxter said.

Consumer price inflation has fallen to around four percent. Prices have soared for steel, water and wages, he said.

^-----(from url)----^

See comments to previous post.

To best invest in gold's bull market, first accumulate your full share of the metal before you seek a single share of the companies that toil to find and mine it.

The difference between having gold metal versus gold mining shares represent the difference between safety and security of portable property versus a sitting duck in an alligator pond during hunting season.

Call USAGOLD-Centennial today for all the assistance you need to diversify your portfolio into gold with grace and confidence.


TownCrierThe whereabouts of China's currency stash#1333496/20/05; 11:59:54

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Recurring talk China may be diversifying its swelling pot of foreign currency reserves away from U.S. dollars has been fueled by large gaps in U.S. data on Beijing's holdings, but experts warn against jumping the gun.

The whereabouts of China's foreign reserves -- some $659 billion in March -- puzzles analysts.

...No one except the Chinese authorities claims to know for sure where this money is banked. China closely guards details of how much is held in dollars, euros or yen, or even Treasury securities, corporate debt or federal agency paper.

a recent paper from economists at the International Monetary Fund suggested China's holdings of U.S. Treasury instruments has been falling steadily since early 2003 ... All this raises concern China is moving away from dollar holdings, with potentially far-reaching consequences for U.S. financial markets and the economy.

^------(from url)-----^

There will always be many things we don't or can't possibly know... events and counterparties beyond our control.

This is why sovereign nations and individuals choose to build a portfolio of gold -- because ultimately that is something over which they CAN exercise control. The essence of "ownership" is an empowering device. Why sit aside with a counterparty's promise (money/bonds) when you can have the ready power of real savings (gold/wealth)?


USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.Proven Reliability, Longevity, Quality and Professionalism ---- Invest with Confidence!!#1333506/20/05; 12:01:03

TownCrierBillionaraire Buffett still bearish long-term on dollar#1333516/20/05; 13:51:33

NEW YORK, June 20 (Reuters) - Warren Buffett, chairman of Berkshire Hathaway Inc. , still believes the swelling U.S. trade deficit will cause the U.S. dollar to decline over the long term.

"There's no change in the underlying factors affecting currencies," Buffett said at a press conference in Boise, Idaho. "The policies that we're following are likely to lead to a weaker dollar over a long period of years. It's not a forecast for next week, or next month, or even next year."

Buffett, whose remarks were reported by Bloomberg News, also said Berkshire's bet against the dollar "is likely to be very long term," and that he hasn't changed his views about the dollar since Berkshire released its annual report on March 5.

The world's second-richest person was scheduled on Monday to give the keynote address at a conference in Boise held by the National Association of Regulatory Utility Commissioners.

^-----(from url)-----^

Warren speaks, people listen.

Seek diversification of your portfolio for protection from likely depreciation of dollar.


Belgian@ TIH#1333526/20/05; 14:18:49

The European political melting pot will always remain what it is. I do prefer...feel happy with... this "imperfect" (clownesque) type of society, above many others !

The many evolving (global) realities are moving Euroland, exactly there where it has to move. Nothing more, nothing less.

It is only a matter of *- correctly -* interpreting the $-€-oil-gold > COMPLEX. Add the $-€ interest rates differential to it for some more (convenient) confusion.

Point is that the majority refuses to see things as a "complex" and stare (comment) on the separate elements of it. Much easier for opportunistic profiling that completely misses the ongoing fundamentals. So be it, whilst we both wait for the final outcome.

And,...whatever the final all holders of gold in possession should...simply hold on. The gold-debate will be over once gold starts its inevitable revaluation with the appropiate numerical compagnon.

Ridicule the EMU/EU-concept as much as you please,...but don't forget to relate it to gold's future > A higher price with/in the same goldmarket or full revaluation in Another goldmarket.

Look "through" the political circus and see what the facts tell us. One long trail of never-ending stories for amusement only next to a linear evolving reality. You certainly will forgive me (or beg) not to repeat my personal opinion on the matters. Absolutely Nothing of the evolving reality (concept), has changed ...Nothing Sir ! On the contrary, we recently had a break-through (€-POG>350 €)in the building momentum ! At the Eagle's nest, there are a few people starting to think into a different mode (at last) about the real meaning of the simple complex's (recent) behavior.

USAGOLD Daily Market ReportPage Update!#1333536/20/05; 14:36:03">
The Daily Gold Market Report has been updated.

If you are considering investments in gold we invite you to">request our free introductory information packet detailing the products and services offered by USAGOLD ~ Centennial Precious Metals. We welcome your inquiry and look forward to working with you.

Monday Market Excerpts

June 20 (from Reuters) -- Gold was seen nearing a 2005 peak as investors upped their exposure to the precious metal.

The market started to back off slightly in the afternoon, but dealers were confident of more gains as the metal had seen an undercurrent of fund buying on the back of last week's significant gains to seven-week highs.

"You can't stand in front of an express train...there's a head of steam building and standing in the way of it would be foolish," Peter Hillyard, head of European metal sales at ANZ bank, said.

COMEX August gold futures settled flat at $440, after trading between $438.50 and $443.20. Gold priced in euros hit an all-time high at 361.97 euros.

"Gold has clearly been in an upward trend, and at some point the trend followers will take positions long in gold if that trend continues," a fund source said.

Dealers said the move was all the more significant as the market rose in defiance of normally unfavourable currency fundamentals... "Funds have taken a view that the price of gold in euros is going to go up and sure enough they've been right," SGCIB economist Stephen Briggs said.

"Metals are trivially small markets -- if enough people decide the market is going to go up then it will go up."

Analysts say the average daily global trading volume in the gold market, at less than $10 billion, is equivalent to about 0.5 percent of average daily global foreign exchange trading volume.

----(see url for full news, 24-hr headlines, market quotes)----

TownCrierECB's Caruana defends rate policy#1333546/20/05; 15:26:49

VALENCIA, Spain, June 20 (Reuters) - European Central Bank Governing Council member Jaime Caruana on Monday defended current euro zone interest rates as appropriate and said the bank had no rate bias in either direction.

"The absence of inflation, the weakness (that is) implied in the euro zone, justifies the current policy framework on interest rates," he said at a meeting hosted by the Foundation for Stock Market and Financial Studies in Valencia.

The ECB has held rates at record lows of 2 percent for two years, and has resisted recent pressure from politicians in several euro zone countries to cut rates to kickstart the sluggish economy.

...Referring to the French and Dutch "no" votes in referendums on the European Union constitution, Caruana said his view was that European integration had never gone in a straight line.

"It has had times when it has speeded up and times when it has gone more slowly and it has had its difficulties, but it has always progressed...I think the solution lies in 'more Europe' -- more Europe, closer to the citizens," he said.

^---(from url)----^

There's more than one way to fry an egg.

If politicians want a softer euro that the ECB is reluctant to deliver itself (via softer interest rates) as if a bad omen of its vigilance toward price stability, they can lob forth such things as public referenda to acheive predictable results through another avenue. We then come away with the euro slightly softer, with gold gaining recognition as the proper savings reserve, and with everybody smoothly one step further down the long road.


The KnifeDid You Know??????#1333556/20/05; 17:41:56

I got this e-mail from the governments own web site at the Bureau of Engraving & Printing (BEP), stating this fun fact and trivia item on U. S. Currency. "The U. S. government prints over 8 billion notes each year: enough to wrap around the earth's equator over 30 times!"

The knife's edge: I don't know about you, but I don't want anything in that quantity, especially fiat.

GoldiloxRealty Reality - FSU#1333566/20/05; 19:38:10


In the boom phase of the trade cycle, it is not predictable as to where the fiat money and credit will flow. In the late 1990s, we saw "Easy" Alan's money and credit flowing into internet-related companies such as the dot.coms and telecoms. Correspondingly, individual "investors" threw trillions of dollars into the tech-laden NASDAQ with the belief that the internet would lead us into a bold new cyber-world where wealth would be created simply by sharing and transferring information. When this mania ended (as bank credit and venture capital dried up), the NASDAQ bubble burst—in early 2000—and the once high-flying and telecom companies came crashing down to earth. It was all an illusion fueled by the Federal Reserve's loose money and credit—with a notable clustering of entrepreneurial and investor error associated with internet-related companies. Hence, in 2000, the economic bust (recession) descended upon the U.S.

Alan Greenspan, of course, would not tolerate a recession. Accordingly, the Federal Reserve went on a money and credit creation binge and eventually brought short-term interest rates down to 1% (in 2003). The Federal Reserve, in total, cut interest rates 13 times between 2001 and 2003. With interest rates so seductively low, Americans went on a borrowing and spending spree which pulled Uncle Sam out of the recession—at least for now.

As Murray Rothbard explains, in The Austrian Theory of the Trade Cycle, America's debt-driven "prosperity" is a mirage built upon the opiate of easy credit. Alan Greenspan's multiple interest rate cuts, as Dr. Rothbard conveys, is nothing new in the field of central banking:

… the point is that the credit expansion is not one-shot; it proceeds on and on, never giving consumers the chance to reestablish their preferred proportions of consumption and saving, never allowing the rise in costs in the capital goods industries to catch up to the inflationary rise in prices. Like the repeated doping of a horse, the boom is kept on its way and ahead of its inevitable comeuppance, by repeated doses of the stimulant of bank credit.
Sadly, there will be a comeuppance. In this case, a clustering of errors will be exposed on the part of the high-flying housing developers, lenders, and homeowners. Mortgage lenders, eventually, will find that homeowners cannot handle such crushing debt loads especially as rising interest rates cause defaults on interest only and adjustable rate mortgage loans. As mortgage payment delinquencies and defaults rise, bankers and other mortgage lenders will begin to see the error of their easy-credit ways. This is where boom turns to bust, as described by Dr. Rothbard:

It is only when bank credit expansion must finally stop, either because the banks are getting into a shaky condition or because the public begins to balk at the continuing inflation, that retribution finally catches up with the boom. As soon as credit expansion stops, then the piper must be paid, and the inevitable readjustments liquidate the unsound over-investments of the boom…
Not to forget the housing developers, at this juncture, they will be caught with too much inventory on hand right when housing prices and demand are on the decline.

Just as night follows day, bust follows boom—as long as central banks exist. The housing bubble is merely another manifestation of the Federal Reserve's reckless manipulation of money and credit. Presently, most Americans believe that houses are a sure-fire investment while adherents of Austrian economics know they are nothing more than consumer durables caught up in a speculative frenzy. When the housing bubble bursts, millions of Americans will find themselves buried alive in debt while living in their financial tombs.


Eric Englund joins the plethor of analysts warning about the "easy money" real estate market.

DruidTownCrier (6/20/05; 15:26:49MT - msg#: 133354)#1333576/20/05; 20:49:04

Druid: What the ECB gives up in terms of a lower priced Euro, it gains in higher priced gold for its mark to the market objective. A higher price of gold in Euros will force the hand of dollar priced gold thereby putting more pressure on the dollar exchange rate. If the ECB doesn't budge on its price stability objective, it will continue to gain credibility in terms of monetary policy while it allows gold to do the heavy lifting in other areas.
Great Albino BatThe Knife: a little more simple math...#1333586/20/05; 21:49:34

According to your post:

The Bureau of Engraving & Printing (BEP) informs that "The U. S. government prints over 8 billion notes each year"

One million notes take up 1 cubic meter - roughly 36 cubic feet.

So, 8,000 X 36 cubic feet equals 288,000 cubic feet. Since the number is "over 8 billion", let's round that out to 300,000 cubic feet.

That is the space occupied by a building 60 feet wide by 100 feet long and 5 stories high. More or less.

Every year...

And remember, printed notes make up only a very, very small fraction of the total money supply.

We are living in a nightmare, is all I can say.

Stock up on gold, forget the daily variations. It's cheap at ANY "price" in paper or electronic digits.


Great Albino BatNew exchanges in the MIddle East...#1333596/20/05; 22:00:40

Interesting that Dubai plans to open a Gold Trading Exchange.

Add to that, that Iran is planning an Oil Trading Exchange on its territory for the near future.

Dubai will be open seven days a week. It seems quite fitting that there should be a Gold Exchange in the area which is most interested in gold. Why London or New York, places where the population has little or no interest in buying gold? This is a significant rollover in gold trading, to where the action is, the Middle East, and a step away from the largest buyer of gold, India.

Oil Trading in Iran brings the trading to where the production takes place: the Middle East. Another rollover, dreaded no doubt, by New York, Rotterdam (?) and London.

Seems as if the Real Economy is feeling its oats.

Perhaps as in the case of Iraq quoting its oil in Euros, the Oil Exchange may be snuffed out in Iran by means of WAR, which as Scott Ritter informs us, is already going on.

The Day of Reckoning seems ever closer. Stock up on GOLD, the upheaval will be historic and unpleasant when it comes.


Great Albino BatAnother little "x" on the P & F Chart....#1333606/20/05; 22:12:36$GOLD,P

Another little "x" has appeared on the P & F chart for gold. It's at $440.

"The Powers That Be" are desperately trying to sell it down, and now have it at $435. To make a dismal "0" show up and reverse the trend on the chart, they have to sell it down to $428 or less.

With gold up to Euros 360 or so, and thus stimulating European demand - or are Europeans asleep at the switch? - and brisk world demand, it will be hard to push gold down in the face of a lot of buyers out there.

Interesting week this wll be.


TopazThe Bond/Oil is "really" out of shape here.#1333616/21/05; 02:35:14

...and softer Yields this AM is causing all sorts of dislocations.
Even our well-watched seismograms, although nothing of note is apparent, they simply WON'T settle.

Equinox? ...maybe!

GoldiloxChina M&A#1333626/21/05; 08:11:46

Maytag, UnoCal?

CNBC is reporting that China Offshore Oil Co. has bettered Chevron's bid for UnoCal, and another firm (I didn't catch the name) has made a bid for MayTag.

This is more active use for their excess US$ than buying T-bonds, for sure!

I guess the Chinese figure that they ought to supply both the management and the labor, oh, and why not take the profits too, while they're at it.

Who was it that warned about China having too many $ reserves and creating some imbalances here?

If the ESF has to start defending US corporate assets, watch out for some interesting market battles in the global "Monopoly" game.

I always like the car game piece, and I predict it will not be long until the Chinese agree with me. Perhaps that is what is behind Icahn's GM scramble?

GoldiloxBernanke's new job#1333636/21/05; 08:35:49

CNBC reports that President Bush just swore in "Helicoptor" Bernanke as Chair of the President's Council on Economic Advisors.
GoldiloxMore corporate "issues"#1333646/21/05; 08:39:21

CNBC's darling of the post-bubble period, Krispy Kreme, announced today that 6 execs have been fired as a result of financial shenanigans.

I guess that could be considered "reduced fat".

USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.What you need to know before you buy your first ounce of gold...#1333666/21/05; 09:48:08

Q. I've noticed that USAGOLD / Centennial stresses education more than most of your competitors. Why is that?

MK. For years, we have emphasized "We educate first-time investors" in our advertising. We believe education to be the key to successful gold ownership. To make a long story short, we tend to keep our clientele as they become better educated, while many of our competitors tend to lose their clientele once they become educated. It shows in the type of services we consider important to complement our sales and delivery programs.

Q. What are some of the criteria a prospective investor should look for in a gold firm?

MK. Credibility, longevity, pricing, service and compatibility -- all come into the mix. Of those I rate credibility and its sister virtues -- reliability and reputability -- the most important. Too many of the national firms have brokers who were selling condos at the beach or automobiles a month ago and now suddenly they've become "gold experts" selling leverage schemes, $50,000 rare coins, reproduction medallions at 25 times their gold content, or overpriced silver investments. Most sophisticated gold investors would probably like to avoid that sort of thing.

Q. How does USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals position itself among its competitors with regard to credibility, reputability and pricing?

MK. USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals has always been considered one of the most reputable firms in the business and it's always been that way. We have placed literally thousands of ounces of gold with investors and our repeat business and referrals are both very strong. That doesn't happen unless you know what you are doing and your clients know that you know what you are doing. If I were to sum it up, I would say we combine the first rate services and research that you would expect from a very large firm with the favorable pricing you would expect from a smaller, client-conscious firm.

TownCrierFor anyone...#1333676/21/05; 12:27:13

There are many merits and benefits to owning gold. Some are fundamentally obvious, some are obscure, and some are so deeply rooted in technical financial/economic esoterica that many hours of devoted study would be required to reach a full appreciation and understanding.

Given such a wide scope for consideration, and given the population's normal distribution in the range of interest in the topic, there are surely gaps between what people know (or think they know) versus what they WANT to know about investments in gold and gold ownership.

With a relative lull in the amount of discussion-worthy news today, why don't we try to dredge up some of those nagging questions that people or their friends have ---- what are the primary concerns or skepticisms that you've encountered that have made you or your friends apprehensive about diversifying your portfolio to include gold?

If we can face those head-on, we'll have provided a valuable public service.

So, what are the various questions, concerns, and skepticisms?


TownCrierWorld to temporarily join ranks and inflate its way over present obstacles?#13336806/21/05; 13:19:29

CHICAGO, June 21 (Reuters) - Bonds garnered additional support as Bill Gross, manager of the giant PIMCO bond fund, said the Federal Reserve could stop raising the federal funds rate this summer and start cutting again, perhaps by year's end.

A dip in bund yields after a larger-than-expected rate cut by Sweden's central bank overnight added support.

Speculation has arisen that the European Central Bank may be gearing up for a rate cut by year-end.

...Long bonds yields tumbled after a U.S. debt agency official, speaking in London, suggested the Treasury could issue $20 billion to $30 billion in 30-year bonds per year starting next February. The Treasury said in May it was thinking about bringing back the 30-year bond, last issued in 2001.

Crude oil futures were lower but within striking distance of $60 per barrel, a level some pundits think could put more pressure on consumers' budgets.

^-----(from url)-----^

It is hard to seriously believe that a rational investor would want $20 to $30 billion tied up in 30-year IOUs when rising oil prices are so obviously demonstrating that the dollar's purchasing power is fading, with increased likelihood of a continued paradigm shift away from dollars/bonds in the architecture of international reserves.

Choose MTM gold reserves within a free-(unleased)-gold market regime.


USAGOLD Daily Market ReportPage Update!#1333696/21/05; 14:10:59">
The Daily Gold Market Report has been updated.

If you are considering investments in gold we invite you to">request our free introductory information packet detailing the products and services offered by USAGOLD ~ Centennial Precious Metals. We welcome your inquiry and look forward to working with you.

Tuesday Market Excerpts

June 21 (from Reuters) -- U.S. gold futures erased steep morning losses to end higher Tuesday, as investors snapped up the yellow metal after a burst of fund selling and profit taking overnight briefly sent it to cheaper levels.

COMEX August gold contracts rose 50 cents to end at $440.50.

"You saw some fund buying and speculative call (options-based) buying, and after the market held and rallied a bit, some shorts were covering," said a New York desk trader.

"Technically, gold looks great. People are still pretty bullish," said the desk trader.

Interestingly, two big investment banks had opposing views on gold's price outlook in new research reports on Tuesday.

UBS Investment Bank revised downward its average forecast for 2005 to $430 per ounce from $440 previously, "largely due to a reassessment of the prospects of the euro," it said. Usually, a stronger dollar makes gold and other metals denominated in the currency more expensive for non-U.S. investors but recently gold prices have rallied sharply despite a tumbling euro.

Meanwhile, Goldman Sachs JBWere said diversification away from the euro could drive world gold prices as high as $520 an ounce over the coming year.

----(see url for full news, 24-hr headlines)----

Topaz@G'lox, Randy.#1333706/21/05; 14:27:10


Are you watching?
We seem to be in a most unusual period here where the planet is shivering! Why even the normally comatose Black Hills gadget (linked) is registering a cronic vibration ...reminds me of sitting on a boat out at sea with lightning flashes all around (over the horison) but, clear skies above!


Might I attempt to address your poser?

Most people I come in contact with are conditioned to "accept" the here-and-now based on past experience ...rather than anticipate the "future" basing expectations on here-and-now developments.
They cite "risk of storage" as a main factor, with nary a thought of risk when driving their car or engaging in the many "riskier" persuits of everyday life.

The vast, VAST majority are content with the status-quo (Politian to Pauper) as they eke out an existance derived from the System du-jour.

At $50K/Oz these same souls will flock to Gold via an ETF or somesuch still faithfully devoted to a system clearly broke(en)

So it goes! :-(

TownCrierTopaz, sure, I can buy into that particular rationale...#1333716/21/05; 15:11:52

That, stated somewhat another way, there are simply some people who are on autopilot, conditioned by their previous routines, and they are not likely to give thought to doing anything outside of their existing routines until such time as they look around at everyone else and realize that they are now sticking out as abnormal because they have been too slow to evolve and adapt with the changing times. This sort of person will only begin a program of personal gold ownership when they perceive that that is what most of the other normal people are doing. But until then, they won't seriously consider adjusting their current pattern of behavior.

Unfortunately, that probably describes the mentality of a large portion of the industrialized population.

Thanks for the thoughts.


GoldiloxShivering Planet#1333726/21/05; 15:41:52

@ Topaz,

If I may be excused from answering an off-topic post, I will try to be brief.

USGS EQ specialists often respond quickly to concerns that a flurry of EQs might be precursorial, with the hope that pressure relief "postponing" larger events is a better explanation. To their and everyone's comfort, it has seemed so more often than not.

The recent increase in activity around the Pacific "Rng of Fire" has caught even main stream media attention, as it has been as anomalous as four hurricanes within a ten mile radius last year in Florida.

We know so little about the geological past (our real data is maybe 50 years old, with smatterings of event before that, but no accompanying data), that serious "prediction" is simply folly from this tiny data set.

Add in, however, the recent volcanic activity, both in eruptions (mostly minor) and off-gassing, and realize for a moment that these are NOT localized events, as geological activity on the planet is all interconnected, as much so as the atmosphere, not unlike a person's circulatory system.

I don't have any definitive answers, but questions remain.

"Are the cumulations of these events a definite pattern, leading to a bigger picture event that we are totally missing as we concentrate on the trees instead of the forest?"

Are the volcanic and earth movements leading us to something for which we are totally unprepared as a society?

Are TPTB totally ignorant of this potential, or clinging to their "don't panic the populace" policies of the past?

TopazG'lox#1333736/21/05; 15:56:02

I was leaning that way ie: a precursoral Volcanic event ...maybe a generalised? or, if localised I'd punt on western Pacific.

Off to the coalface ...

melda laureBumps in the night#1333746/21/05; 17:19:16

The richter scale is log base 100, not log base 10. It would take a hundred 7.0's to relive the energy of an 8.0 and it would take 1 million 5.0's to equal an 8.0. To put it another way, that means suffering ten magnitude 5.0's every day for 300 years to equal an 8.0

The total raw energy of course doesn't capture the total destructiveness. A low frequency rolling displacement may pack a lot of energy but relatively little damage. Come to think of it, the magma continues to roll and swirl deep down under your feet every single minute and you'd hardly notice it at all (it keeps the balrogs asleep), in the same way that the 3 to 6% inflation is referred to as "benign". It's the sudden dislocation of the "hidden" extra 1% inflation that has been integrating for the last 60 years that get's you when in a single week you find yourself with 40 cent dollars.

melda laureTopaz, What's past experience anyhow?#1333756/21/05; 17:35:08

No geologist now living saw the upheavals attested to in ancient records. So you have only their opinions and interpretations.

Only 7 months ago they thought that a 9.5 quake extremely improbable! That's like thirty 8.9 events at once!

In like manner, nobody belives the dollar could fail. Where is the "experience" that informs that belief?

Sir Lox, there are those who would answer "Yes" to all those questions. Vine DeLoria for one. Vusamazulu. Just remeber to consult "The Tabloids of Truth" (wink) It is useless to listen to what TPTB say. It is interesting to watch what they DO. I, for one do not think they ALL belive their own propaganda.

BoilermakerEQ/POG Cause and Effect#1333766/21/05; 18:02:05

"The magnitude of an earthquake is a measure of the amount of energy released. Each earthquake has a unique magnitude assigned to it. This is based on the amplitude of seismic waves measured at a number of seismograph sites, after being corrected for distance from the earthquake. Magnitude estimates often change by up to 0.2 units, as additional data are included in the estimate.
The Richter scale is logarithmic, that is an increase of 1 magnitude unit represents a factor of ten times in amplitude. The seismic waves of a magnitude 6 earthquake are 10 times greater in amplitude than those of a magnitude 5 earthquake. However, in terms of energy release, a magnitude 6 earthquake is about 31 times greater than a magnitude 5."

Boilermaker's fearless prediction:
The magnitude of a gold revaluation associated with an earthquake on the US West Coast will be:
POG increase = (EQ intensity - 5)squared x 10

Be careful out there.

GoldendomeTC ; your earlier question to anyone#1333776/21/05; 22:24:08

TC: One of the comments that I frequently hear as a reason for not holding savings in Gold or Silver:

They Pay no Interest!

Liberty HeadTC gold vs house argument#1333786/21/05; 23:08:53

Gold is no better of a hedge against inflation than owning a house. While you're waiting for the price to rise you can live in the house. You can also use the house to produce income beyond simple rent money by turning it into some type of home care facility.

Liberty Head retort

Of course a house usually comes with a variable interest mortgage loan, maintainence costs, liabilities and property taxes.

djacgold ownership#1333796/21/05; 23:18:31

dear sirs,
I would like to argue, that at the present time the central banks aren't trustworthy anymore, and therefore the private ownership of gold is more desirable than at times when solidarity allowes the centralised storage of the wealth of a nation with some confidence.

As you mentioned, most people don't want to know about the abuse of the power inherent in the creating of fiatmoney.
So maybe the going out of business of the central banks and the private ownership of gold might just go hand in hand.

good luck to you,
history ain't on my side

GoldiloxCentral Banks#1333806/21/05; 23:26:54

@ djac,

Your quote:

"I would like to argue, that at the present time the central banks aren't trustworthy anymore"

suggests tehre was a time when CBs WERE trustworthy. Can you enlighten me on just when that was?

Central banking may not be "the oldest" profession, but it is perhaps the dirtiest!

TownCrierGoldendome, "They Pay no Interest"#1333816/22/05; 00:52:32

That is indeed a common reason that some people cite for not holding gold while choosing bank accounts and bonds instead.

A fair response would be to ask them what is so special or important about intererest as an investment incentive. Especially when compared or contrasted in light of the possibility for countervailing depreciation of the currency, or the counterpoint of capital gains upon the non-interest bearing asset. BTW, gold CAN bear interest, but it's best that it doesn't -- otherwise it is inflating the apparent supply through paper gold, which is ultimately counterproductive to the goal of capital gains.

When "interest" is what one seeks, one instantly thinks of money -- i.e., the dollar, or more properly, interest bearing savings accounts and bonds. In the last few years, the dollar has lost 10, 20, 30 percent in purchasing power against many of its major international rivals and alternatives. This loss has not been compensated by the pittance earnings of low interest rates concurrent with this time.

Meanwhile, non-interest bearing gold has enjoyed capital gains of 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 percent(!) in dollar terms during this time.

So, in addressing that desire for interest, simply point out to your friends that conditions of interest require successful counterparty performance (in payment of debts owed) and even if successful may yield a negative return when balanced against the concurrent inflation/depreciation of the currency. Meanwhile, capital gains on tangilbes such as gold can be quite substantial, and more importantly are generated with the added safety and security of the asset being well in hand at all times -- risk of counterparty default is not an issue.


TownCrierTrichet, President of the ECB: Reflections on the international financial system#1333826/22/05; 02:03:40

(excerpts, highlights)

It is a particular pleasure for me to speak in Berlin, which symbolises more than any other city the historic peaceful re-integration of Europe.

...In my view, international financial integration and the state of the international financial system are far less abstract topics than one might think at first glance. They reflect one of the most complex, intriguing and powerful aspects of the phenomenon that is generally referred to as globalisation. This phenomenon represents a key issue that policy-makers in Europe and beyond have to deal with. It is therefore of utmost importance that we understand the significance of this issue for our role as economic policy-makers, and it is against this background that I would like to reflect on international financial integration and the international financial system today. trade is not a process in which only one party gains. Each export corresponds to an import, and economies benefit mutually from each other.

...In the early 1970s global exports accounted for only one tenth of world GDP, but they have increased to one quarter of world GDP today.

... In the 1970s, worldwide cross-border holdings of assets amounted to only one tenth of world GDP. Since then, cross-border capital flows have steadily increased, and countries have now accumulated foreign assets in an amount equivalent to the annual GDP of the entire world.

...How should we assess these recent developments in the international financial system?

...In a world without transaction and information costs, all countries should hold the same portfolio. Each country should diversify its investment in all other countries relative to the size of their financial markets. This would provide the best insurance against shocks to any economy in the world, including the economy of the country in question, and at the same time it would increase the returns for all countries. During the last decade countries have indeed been reducing their risk positions through this mechanism.

However, the world economy is still far away from a theoretically optimal portfolio and, as yet, there is no strong empirical evidence for economic stabilisation resulting from risk-sharing. This should be taken as an indication that there is still scope for further reduction of risk and stabilisation of income.

...most developing countries cannot yet borrow internationally in their local currencies, and have to resort to foreign currency. Foreign currency debt makes these countries more vulnerable to exchange rate movements. For example, the positive effect of depreciation on international competitiveness may be outweighed by the government's higher debt service on foreign currency bonds and by deteriorating economic conditions. Recent trends in domestic and international financial markets point to developing countries also having improved access to different types of finance.

...Overall, I consider the recent developments in international financial integration to be welcome, because they reflect trends towards an efficient allocation of resources and, in this way, support growth and promote welfare in the global economy. They do not only benefit the recipient economies, but also the countries of origin, where they facilitate international risk sharing and participation in returns abroad. However, the rapid integration of financial markets across borders is not without new risks. These risks include adverse market dynamics, unwarranted spillovers, and challenges for international financial stability. And this brings me to the second part of my reflections, which concerns the institutional governance of the international financial system.

Potential risks stemming from international financial integration should be addressed with firm governance, requiring solid institutional foundations and policies. These institutional foundations, often referred to as the international financial architecture of the system, will help prevent adverse financial pressure and deal with it when it arises. Therefore, the key questions for policy-makers are whether the international financial architecture is at present sufficiently well-equipped to deal with this task, and whether it is adjusting sufficiently fast to the ongoing changes in international financial integration.

These are clearly not trivial questions, and definite answers can be given only with the benefit of hindsight. It is easy to count the crises that have occurred, but impossible to count those that have been averted. However, without forgetting the necessary note of caution, I consider the adjustments implemented in the international financial system in the aftermath of the Asian financial crisis altogether sufficiently important that they now constitute a system that is significantly different from the one prevailing before the crisis. Indeed, I would classify some of the changes implemented in the international financial architecture since the Asian crisis as major ones. Let me expand on this hypothesis...

The Asian crisis was indeed severe. It is estimated that 600 billion dollars' worth of national income was lost within the first year of the crisis (1997-98).

...There remain a number of open issues in the international financial system that need further reflection. One such issue is the role of the official sector in crisis resolution. .....Another open issue is the lack of clear guidelines for IMF involvement in the process of sovereign debt restructuring in the event of a country facing an unsustainable debt situation. The case of Argentina is an example of a very difficult debt restructuring process, which has taken a long time to complete and which has caused uncertainty for all parties concerned.

...I ... support attempts to review the functioning of the international monetary system and the Fund's role in it. Specifically in this context, the IMF is well-placed to analyse issues like reserve accumulation and the evolution of exchange rate regimes in emerging markets, to take due account of their global implication. Finally, it is important to review the financial position of the IMF and the implications of lower lending activities on the Fund's operational budget.

...My reflections on the current state of the international financial system would be incomplete without putting them into the context of the current global economic situation. First of all, I have to note that this is no time for complacency and that we currently find ourselves in a challenging situation.

The global economy is expanding at a comfortable pace, but there are large global imbalances, which have actually widened in recent years. These imbalances involve the industrialised countries as a whole, which have a large aggregate current account deficit and amongst them, more particularly, the United States, whose current account deficit has reached levels not seen before. The increase in the current account in recent years has occurred against the background of a decline in national savings, in turn attributable to rising budget deficits and a household savings rate that has fallen to levels not far above zero. The financing of the current account deficit, which calls for inflows of the magnitude of around two billion US dollars every working day, takes place largely through Asia. Central banks in the region have been intervening heavily for various reasons, such as to prevent their currencies from appreciating, and they have become large-scale purchasers of US debt securities in recent years. While the current situation is rationalised by some observers, in particular as it supports strong growth in both regions and smoothes the adjustment path, it clearly raises questions regarding the sustainability of recent developments and associated policies.

...In conclusion
I would like to stress three points. First, in my view it is remarkable that the current global imbalances have again brought to the fore the importance of monetary and exchange rate issues in the global economy, namely issues of exchange rate configurations, reserve accumulation and global liquidity. This underscores the fact that the focus on financial sector and market institution issues should not be at the expense of macroeconomic and exchange rate surveillance.

Second, the scientific and technological revolution, the phenomenon of globalisation and the structural changes that are ongoing on all continents, not the least in Europe, are calling for utmost vigilance and for a permanent adaptation of the international financial architecture. We must keep a constant check on whether we have taken the systemic interactions between the various pillars of the international financial architecture into consideration in an appropriate manner. Much remains to be done in this regard and, as I already said, this is no time for complacency. The ECB is keen to play its role fully...

Third, further work also remains to be done to achieve full inclusiveness of emerging economies and economies in transition in the international financial architecture.

^-----(from url)----^

Apologies for the length although this is has been greatly abridged from the original. Unfortunately, a casual reader might get out of this only a reflection of what he goes with into it. Ideally, as you read it you bear in mind the nature of currency, the nature of cenral banking reserves, and especially the mark-to-market paradigm employed by the Eurosystem as set up by my earlier comments regarding the safety of capital gains with an in-hand asset versus the chasing of interest upon wayward foreign currencies.


TopazIt's ALL your fault TC ;-)#1333836/22/05; 02:34:17

This morning on my way to work, whilst absent-mindedly mulling over what might be a knockout reason to acquire and hold Bullion, I missed an off-ramp and was consequently half an hour late for an appointment.

To those gathered who were starting to show a little impatience, I a l m o s t went with, "I'm sorry I'm late - but I was thinking of an absolute reason to own Gold Bullion - and missed the turn-off" ...but thought better of it and just blamed the turn-off ....prudent or what?

Sooo a form of payback, the following is what I came up with: -
GOLD - The Ultimate Consumable.
No special storage, No refrigeration, No Use-by date.
There at the ready in pristine condition WHEN you have to use it ...fair warning, use ONLY as a last resort as it may not find it's way back to you!

Topaz...meanwhile, back in the FishBowl#1333846/22/05; 03:04:47

The two Fat Ladies are getting ready to hand over DX. It took a "London-based" Fed man AND Pimco's Boss to bark the Bond into a reversal yesterday, which in turn backed up DX.
Positive Bonds this am is seeing a continuance.

Everything else is falling into line. Ag needs just a little more spinach here then ..."Look-out Olive"

jenikaWhy my friends don't own gold - despite my nagging#1333856/22/05; 08:27:52

In Australia we have compulsory superannuation, this is currently 9% of someones gross salary.
This money is invested into funds and if you add more money to your superannuation you get a tax break - you cannot get any of this money out until you reach retirement age.
With the cost of living rising, the cost of fuel rising, there doesnt seem to be much money left over to invest in gold for most people. Thats one of the reasons Iam hearing.

Another reason I beleive is people are just too busy to LEARN about gold and then if they try to they will need to read for months before they understand even half the story. MHO. The only reason I know a little is because Iam lucky enough not to work and have spent the last two years reading about it, and even then I cant follow some of the posts here :)
Have a good one :)

KnallgoldTo Gold or not to Gold#1333866/22/05; 09:02:28

TC asks:"So, what are the various questions, concerns, and skepticisms?"

In one word,capital gain or no capital gain.For a long time people looked at me and asked,"so where is the Goldprice now?" I responded "well,at 14'000-15'000sFr per kilo".And there it was one,two or three years ago (they queried periodically).Why should one have Gold?Especially when it is remebered that the high was 30'000 in the eighties-"boy,it is still that low?"

Only recently,when my answer was 18'000 and I explained I bought most of my stash at 15'000,they rasied their eyebrows!$-Gold gains are just not on the radar screen here-real gains ARE!

The banking systems favourite "no interest on Gold" isn't impressing neither as most found out there isn't interest on any account.And'safety is rather futile to to discuss with sheeple (wealthy or not)as they fear nothing for "their" money -if someone is a bit concerned on the financial system and says so,the Gold=insurance can be brought up though.

MKEuro constitution posts . . . with an abbreviated intro#1333876/22/05; 09:04:08

With things fairly quiet around here, I thought I would post the link to my collected observations on the Euro referenda. I note that John Hathaway agrees with me (in a MineWeb article) that the vote and its impact on the euro has been the most important gold event in some time. He characterized recent events as "the implosion of the euro."

On 4/13/05 I remarked that "In the end though, a No vote by France and/or Netherlands in my view will create strong gold demand in Europe, and you might see that break from currency related trading only we have all been looking for."

Hathaway similarly commented in a recent speech in San Francisco that: "The first half of 2005 has been 'noteworthy in that two important capital havens have been soundly discredited: (1) multiple categories of speculate debt investments and (2) the euro. The demise of both is still in progress.'"

Direct demand in Europe resulting from the "No" vote and subsequent dissolutions, mostly having to do with the European federal budget (such as it is) is one new source of demand. The other is the knock-on effect from speculators reacting to this new set of circumstances. Private physical investors and their paper trading counterparts in the futures, forward and options market are likely to build the volume in both arenas as the summer unfolds and the deep divisions among key participants in the international monetary order become even more apparent to the wider world.

I have also included below the lost post mentioned here previously. I hope the framework at the link is helpful for those attempting to put the euro vote into some logical construct with respect to gold. I find it remarkable that only now key central bankers and politicians in Europe -- chastened and humble as they are -- have deferred to their previously neglected citizenry. Unfortunately, the damage is already done; the cat is out of the bag so to speak. There are very serious calls for a return to national currencies, and one cannot walk away from the financial page this morning without noting Sweden's quick and decisive reaction to economic weakness in that country (by lowering interest rates).

The link above goes to a print ready page for those interested.

Many thanks to all here in helping to stimulate my own study of the matter -- particularly Belgian, 968, TC, The Invisible Hand, Cavan Man, DA and Dollar Bill.

Best wishes for a relaxing but interesting early summer (gold-wise) to all. . .



Lost post referenced above
circa 4/20/05

Last week in response to some questions from Sir 968, I commented that though the euro might at times exhibit stronger appeal than the dollar in the international reserve sweepstakes, it is a still a fiat currency and subject to the same weaknesses exhibited by all fiat currencies. I also pointed out that if the political union is defeated by France in the upcoming end of May vote it would greatly undermine the single currency. Subsequent to that a round of posts here attempting to pick apart that argument fell short of addressing the issue.

The issue is not whether or not the euro is a more ethical currency. The issue is whether or not the currency will survive in the rough and tumble of Real Politic. The Duisenberg statements about a de-politicized currency came in the glow of euro introduction -- all the world seemed at Europe's feet and the future lay before it like an eternal spring. It was an attempt to make lemonade. Spin the euro weaknesses. Make them a strength.

But I am talking real politic/real economics in a nasty, competitive world where one's national interests need to be advanced and defended, and where political decisions, particularly with respect to the economy, do affect one's currency whether we like it or not.

So, gone are those halcyon days when Duisenberg baptized the euro/ECB and now we are left with a vital vote (as it is now commonly portrayed) on a constitution that a majority probably doesn't want (at least in Netherlands and France according to the polls) at a time when the European nation needs some political girding to legitimize the existence of its currency.

Along comes Wolfgang Munchau in this morning's Financial Times to tell another woeful tale of the euro -- one that sounds very similar to my own of a week ago. The article is by subscription only at the FT site, so I will quote the salient aspects:

"By voting No [on the Constitution], French voters would throw their own country and the EU into a protracted political crisis and thereby create the worst possible political climate for economic reform. . .

For the first time since the creation of the euro in 1999, we might be discussing what the European Central Bank and euro advocates have most dreaded: how long the euro might survive.

Without the prospect of eventual political union on the basis of some constitutional treaty, a single currency was always difficult to justify, and it might turn out to be even more difficult to sustain. I never thought it was possible to defend the euro purely on economic grounds."

End quote. . .

Now, I understand that EU's defenders might see Munchau's comments as coming from someone opposed to the rise of Europe, but, as one who has no problem with a rising Europe, I see no harm in dealing with the realities the lack of political union represents.

Beyond the discussion on the euro, there is another question to be dealt with here -- and a difficult one at that:

The citizens of France and Netherlands are about to cast the most important vote of their lifetimes. I don't think I would be stretching it to say that it is the most important vote in the history of modern Europe. Should French and Dutch voters endorse a constitution they might see as flawed and perhaps not in their best long term interest in order to sustain the drive toward union? Frankly, given the stakes, I would not relish having to cast that vote.

Munchau concludes like this:

"Europe is easy to caricature but difficult to comprehend. If you mess with this constitution, you take risks. The potential outcomes are assymetric. If you vote Yes, you get an imperfect constitution. If you vote No, you do not know what you get." End quote/

Does Europe end up in chaos out of a No vote? In my view, it won't be pretty, but chaos will be avoided. The euro will continue on but not perhaps in as formidable a fashion as it could have. I disagree with Munchau in that I find the unknown easier to deal with than a bad political document. As for the euro, I'll just say that it will make gold, the traditional European haven, look all the better given the dollar's on-going prospects. If the constitution goes down to defeat, eventually the Germans might yearn for their D-mark, and the French their franc, but finding neither one available, they will opt for gold.

And that process could begin as early as June 1, 2005. [End post}

Great Albino BatTowncrier: Trichet is talking absolute ROT...#1333886/22/05; 09:47:07

I stop listening when I hear words such as these:

"Each export corresponds to an import"

Words uttered by Trichet in the piece you quoted, TC.

Exports=imports USED TO BE THE CASE, in the days of the gold standard. Any imbalance between Ex/Im was paid in gold. No gold? No deal!

The blatant example of imports that DO NOT CORRESPOND to exports, is the great U.S.of A., which simply prints up bills, or easier, applies electronic credits to foreign accounts at its banks in N.Y.

The U.S. of A. is killing itself with "prosperity", getting something for nothing - the destruction of the productive plant is the upside-down result of the dollar accepted as money, world-wide.

The Devil will have his due. Privileges turn into self-destruction. Nemesis follows hubris. It all fits in nicely with the Laws of Nature.

If Mr. Trichet were to start talking about the FACTS - he would be off the scene in 24 hours. ("As is common in most modern discussions, the unmentionable thing is the pivot of the whole discussion." - GK Chesterton. From, last night, quoted by Bill Murphy.)

Is a Euro, a Yen or a Dollar a FACT? I'd say, the Euro, the Yen, the Dollar - whathaveyou - is an OPINION which is shared by (virtually) all. Is an OPINION a FACT?

Gold is a FACT. Hang on FACTS!


TownCrierTopaz, lost in thought#1333896/22/05; 09:48:31

Sorry for that, mate!

The good of it was, however, that you got some good thinking done and appreciated the care-free immutability of gold.

As Liberty Head pointed out, in contrast with owning houses, maintenence is nil, and you're scarcely subject to the various local jurisdictions -- there's no annual property tax on gold.

Better still, gold is highly liquid, and highly portable and divisible. If you want to relocate to a friendlier jurisdiction, or need to sell a portion of it, you easily can. Just try that with a house!


Druid@TC#1333906/22/05; 10:22:55

Druid: Reference your question to the forum, capital appreciation and not paying interest are the primary responses.

I generally cut the conversation short when I ask them, where does interest come from?

People, by-in-large, don't understand inflation and purchasing power and confuse that lack of undestanding by substituting CPI as a response to that ignorance. This is especially prevalent when they use CPI in an overall equation to discount whatever cashflow they are trying to project.

You've hit on an excellent question as to how do you best formulate a simple answer to reach this mass of ignorance. One of the best reflections I have ever come a cross in describing the concept of purcahsing power was put forth by you not to long ago when you listed and compared the prices of 1 oz. of gold in different currencies. This was oh so simple but textbook in describing the concept.

TownCrierjenika, a question#1333916/22/05; 10:25:56

You point out that the learning process may be too daunting -- that people will choose other investments because they are too busy to learn about gold.

You also point out that they may have committed so much of their money to other investments, and to extra funding of their superannuation, that they have nothing left with which to buy gold.

This all begs the question whether or not they've got a matching shoe on each foot. That is to say, have they undergone and successfully surmounted the aforementioned learning process in order to learn all that there is to learn about these non-gold investments? If not, then why the double standard upon due diligence regarding these investment alternatives?

Frankly, I think it is musch easier to learn the basics of a gold ownership than to learn the basic parameters and risks of investments and "ownership" in bonds or company stock.

Perhaps the root of this particular phenomenon (at least among the industrialized populations) gets back to the discussion I had with Topaz yesterday (posts #133370 and 371) that there is a herd mentality of sorts. That in choosing their own actions and decisions people rely heavily upon what the people immediately surrounding them are doing.

Sometimes it is definitely better to look beyond the surrounding picnic in order to assess the skies (big picture), and seek shelter -- regardless of whether the others do or not.

Bringing this to a close, I would turn this over to Charles Mackay who has previously written:

"Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

TownCrierGAB, Trichet -- "Each export corresponds to an import"#1333926/22/05; 10:36:14

I think you have not approached this from the better angle.

I think Trichet was counting on his audience to recognize the folly in the choices being made by some exporters -- that they have chosen a swelling pile of risky bonds to round out the corresponding balance of imports.

The writing is on the wall.


TownCrierKnallgold, goldprice vs capital gain#1333936/22/05; 11:04:47

You bring up some excellent issues in your msg#133386.

"Capital gains" can be an obscure nut to crack, especially due to the independence of price movements of all items against all others.

Most easily would be to discuss nominal capital gains -- that is, what has been the increase (if any) of my item when measured against dollars. However, that neglects the more important issue regarding whether or not those gains have been REAL, and not merely a phenomenon of currency volitility (appreciation, depreciation).

For an example of "real" capital gains, (that is, as an item is measured relative to another real item or service), we could consider how gold has held up against, say, personal computers over the past few decades.

Think back over twenty years on the prices on top end computers, and especially think about the capability and computing power of those computers. Not only has the quality greatly improved, but prices have dropped, too. The same few ounces of gold that could have bought the best available personal computer in 1985 can be cashed in for a much much MUCH more capable computer today.

I wonder how many of gold's naysayers would absolutely cringe to consider that a few ounces of this brutish relic has shown such strong REAL capital gains over the years especially as measured against these various tangible modern marvels of technology.

There are many angles from which to observe and perceive a situation, and we are best served when we consider the lot of them, not limiting our vision to a singular dollar-pricing lens and small snapshots of time.


GoldiloxInterest and Investment#1333946/22/05; 11:07:39

@ TC, et al,

Perhaps the real answer to Jenika's friends and family dilema lies in the latest Stock Hawker commercial,

"Trust your advice,
trust your advisor!"

or the other gem,

"I have ten good years left to concentrate on earning,
I need someone else to concentrate on my investments."

Like Jenika, my reduced labor commitment has left me more time to explore options and opportunities personally.

I doubt if many of the traditional money management outlets would have led me in this direction, unless I had picked Puplava out of a hat.


GoldiloxCapital Gains measurement#1333956/22/05; 11:12:01

@ TC,

Although I certainly get your point, computers are probably the extreme in this comparison, given their short history and rapid development.

Perhaps that is why some astute posters choose oil as a value benchmark over FIAT, in that oil, like gold, has intrinsic value.

USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.Avoid the crowds...#1333966/22/05; 11:49:13

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Wednesday Market Excertps

June 22 (from MarketWatch) -- Gold futures edged narrowly lower Wednesday as traders consolidated recent gains and the dollar firmed following renewed speculation of U.K. rate cuts.

The COMEX August gold contract closed down 80 cents at $439.70.

"We viewed it mostly as profit-taking. You realize that gold has had a pretty significant run over the last several sessions," said David Meger, senior metals analyst at Alaron Trading. "Any types of dips in the market are probably going to be short-lived."

After decoupling from the euro and dollar over the past few weeks, gold seems to be resuming its dollar-watching theme, analysts said.

"Currency watching and speculation over U.S. and European interest rates have been the focus of the precious metals...following the release of the minutes from the Bank of England's June meeting," said James Moore of

Earlier, Bank of England meeting minutes revealed two members went against their seven colleagues in favor of an interest-rate cut. The news renewed speculation that the UK may be close to cutting interest rates, pushing the dollar higher against sterling and the euro.

Looking ahead, analysts remain bullish on gold while cautioning that consolidation can be expected throughout the week. "[Gold] is likely to see further mixed interest over the coming sessions as traders continue to speculate on the outcome of next week's interest rate decisions," said Moore.

----(see url for full news, 24-hr headlines)----

TopazLong Bond and the Zero%#1333986/22/05; 15:58:20

With Oil stubbornly resisting a return to status-quo, it was interesting to read the Senate opting to sue OPEC for Price fixing just can't trust anyone these days!

The "other" notable item on the Chart is the repeated "gap" on Yield @ 4.3 - 4.35% . I'd nominated 4.4% as the waterline where, when inflation and cost of carry are factored in, the Bond nets at Zero return seems I wasn't too far off.

They have their hands full here trying to lower DX for an SM "bonus" by June 30. With Ag on cat5 and Top-Gun Gold already in the dogfight, this could all be over in 5 minutes.

TopazFIRST rule of engagement ...#1333996/22/05; 16:20:18

...NEVER leave your Wing-man!
NedLooking for a MONSTER bull signal?#1334006/22/05; 17:17:20

Toronto's 'commodity' TSX index rose 112 points and firmly broke the 10,000 resistance at 10,051 and change. Meanwhile, the DJIA lost a dozen points or so. Always and I mean almost every single time when the TSX mauls the DOW it means oil and gas and base metals and PM's have out-performed. Of special interest today is the fact that 2 week, 10k resistance was shattered today with the rise of 112 points. Traders are committed, huge. Traders are committed to the fact that commodity issues will be the fact 'de jour'.

Put this monster bull signal in your back pocket and watch for the next. The PTB are getting sloppy at this point, to be forward and frank they are screwed.

Sorry, get your physical and wait for TEOTWAWKI.

NedCometose#1334016/22/05; 17:19:07

Need one of your 'rants' buddy boy!

Give it to me, both barrels!

CoBra(too)EU - € and no Constitution .... So What!#1334026/22/05; 17:21:37

Vs a US Constititution amended to "smithereens" and its unconstitutional hegemonial Dollar Reserve Currency of debit, called credit - it seems quite natural that the EU - and here I say public - rejects the scary scheme of bankruptcy by edict!

Our national notions have had enough of the kind of hedonics the US of A is now exemplary standing for. Even if we may be aware of the systemic risks to one of the most unfair currency systems ever, multiplied by IMF and WB, I guess noone can estimate the final fallout of the final redemption of the debt the US has amassed in all walks of life.

I used to be a real friend of the US - and still am to many friends, hopefully - in the last few years the country has deteriorated and degenerated to the complete opposite of its old ideals.

Don't ever try to tell me I'm wrong - as I can see the hedonic idiocy of dumbing down the rest of their respective constituents - will follow their hollow promises of redemption.

The US, the US-Dollar and its vasalles are way past redemption and the only question remaining ...

... Can you weather the tempest - personally - ...

... Got a vegetable garden, some chickens and a few coins .... Gold and silver - that is ... cb2

PS - The CRB will be "re-weighted" by the BLS coming July.First time ever!°
OK- I believe in real weights, though still having fun playing the games of our Ballistic, Laborous and Statistic - some say only BLS - hedonic lunacy the "regime" is spewing out!

Or'well - not really sorry for ranting - though I guess to say goodbye for a while would be just what the doc. ordered ....

masFell out of my chair on this one....#1334036/22/05; 18:13:51
No spare cash? Foolish American
Wednesday June 22, 6:00 am ET
Barbara Whelehan

You've heard Aesop's fable -- the one about the ant and the grasshopper.
It goes something like this: The ant spends his time industriously storing food supplies for use in the future while the grasshopper lounges around on a leaf, poking fun at the ant. The grasshopper's motto is "live for today," while the ant's creed is "be ready for tomorrow." Then, when winter comes and food becomes scarce, the grasshopper searches for his ant-friend and begs for scraps.

The rest is an excellent example of manipulated data.....
Good luck all.

GoldiloxHistory "Rhymes" - Chris Sumner#1334046/22/05; 19:58:58


A recent book by Eric Clements was sent to me this past week (I have a home in Jerome, Arizona) that provided some insight to the radical change in perception of wealth creation in the Southwestern United States. The Grand Canyon State was once known for its mining (copper), cotton (Pima) and cattle industries. Today, there seems to be no shortage in credit stimulating demand for residential housing developments in the Arizona as well as much of the Sonoran Desert.

Clements made some interesting observations about past western United States resource towns, documenting the attempts by the Federal Government to "artificially inflate the price of gold" in the 1930s (efforts to depreciate dollars in circulation after seizing private holdings of gold) as well as the deflationary consequences of excess credit on the properties in many areas. [5] While I must confess I have yet to finish this book, I note the author seems to have an excellent idea of what money was and is today. Specifically, he comments on how many institutions in the industrialized East benefited greatly from the financing and ownership of many tangible asset based companies (mines as well as energy, food and water) and rights in the west. In summary, Bernard DeVoto was quoted suggesting western mineral development "has not made the west wealthy" but rather the stockholders in the eastern banking entities.

One interesting note, Jerome, Arizona was named after Eugene Murray Jerome, a New York investor and the cousin of Sir Winston Churchill's mother, Jennie Jerome. Sir Winston Churchill said it best… "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."

Investment Opportunity

Looking at arguably America's greatest investor, we see from actions (not words) the fact that Warren Buffett understands our current fiat currency situation (inflation and potential loss of confidence in paper assets – credit risk) from his father. He may been taught some Keynesian economics at Columbia U but the his father, Hon Howard Buffett obviously well understood Austrian economics in a speech to congress 57 years ago today [8]:

"But it was not always this way. Before 1933 the people themselves had an effective way to demand economy. Before 1933, whenever the people became disturbed over Federal spending, they could go to the banks, redeem their paper currency in gold, and wait for common sense to return to Washington." ~Howard Buffett

The last three deals for Berkshire Hathaway involved energy, natural gas and pipelines. In addition to the silver purchase in 1997 (37% of the worlds above ground stockpile) he's been moving to foreign currencies via FX bonds [6]. I would speculate the management at Berkshire not only understand the structural demands for energy (peak oil thesis), but also knows petrochemical commodities are rising in price because of the dollars loss of purchasing power (inflation) due to excess money supply and credit.

"Anyone who thinks there will be deflation does not understand twenty-first-century central banking. There may well be a deflationary collapse later, but before that happens the government will print money until the world runs out of trees." ~ Jim Rogers


Sweet and to the point over at Puplava's Market Wrap for today. Excellent commentary on the conundra.

OvSKobratoo#1334056/22/05; 20:43:27

So we can't tell you that you are wrong?
Guess what. I'm telling you that you are
Me thinks you have an overreaction to
your diplomatic "Papi" because you sound
like a streamlined Hohenzollern, instead
of a smooth Wiener Patzi...
I could see if you have your say against
"The Clique" or "The Inner NYC Circle",
but when you phrase it "The U S of A" it
sounds you put down the average American
and that will not do.
So, enjoy your Heurigen, but when down to
earth again, lets address what really does
bother you...namely, that the "Inner Euro-
pean Clique" just does not have the guts
the American one sure does have...
Yes, it is a matter of style and brinksman-
ship, but what else do you do? Twiddle your
thumbs and grow bored?
Have I gotten to you yet? I deserve a peppery
answer, jawohl Herr Hauptmann.

CometoseNED#1334066/22/05; 21:02:18

I Bow to you NED and
I Bow to Marc Faber ..........

To watch this scene unfold is simply breathtaking in its many twists and turns like a novel....with protagonist and antagonist warring with one another where the right and sterling is always magnified intensely in its own light next to the dark and errant behavior of the rogue(sque).

I'm more convinced by the day that we are going to recieve an economics lesson served up to us AUSTRIAN STYLE and it is going to come through the dawning of a new era and brilliant vibrancy of morning .

Not much moves me in the world of Sizzle that surrounds us ; I'm much settled into the promises that I must keep (so much so that I am not able to be in attendance here near as often as I wish ).....and we here as students are often double tasked to keep up with the day to day and also remain vigilant and watchful in this the vocation that we have espoused.
We are rewarded by her attendance.

Through all of the daily stages I go through in my life , I relentlessly have the occasion to be exposed to new people and over the course of a year , I have the occasion to have the great fortune of seeing some of the people that I work with repeatedly........ Of all these people , those that are the most rewarding and those who I have gained the most respect for now and in the past ........have a special knack for lifting others up in the concious act of making them feel important. This gift given freely on a repeated basis over a broad expance of Human Beings will change the world .... This is a gift that can only be given out of the abundance that a man/woman hath .

Thank you , Ned , for doing this for me .....

Stay Tuned .........for an episode of EVIL being overtaken by GOOD ....

specifically in the WORLD OF ECONOMICS and Finance in the weeks , months and years to come .

Cavan ManCheers Cobra 2#1334076/22/05; 21:11:49

Somewhere in Texas, a village is missing their idiot. Going for physical GOLD and SILVER plus a few XCLent juniors!
Cavan ManUnocal and Maytag#1334086/22/05; 21:17:29

"Chinese oil producer makes offer for Unocal
Unsolicited $18.5 billion bid sets up takeover battle with Chevron"

What exactly do we expect the Chinese to do with their USD CREDITS? There is not enough physical gold to satisfy their CLAIMS. Go AU...CM

mikal@Cavan Man#1334096/22/05; 22:11:25

The Chinese will also have to spend their euros, yen and dollars(aussie and canadian) etc. as there are presses,
computers and heli's humming all over the world...

GoldiloxUS of A#1334106/22/05; 23:52:03

@ OvS,

Maybe its just my own perception filter, but I got the impression that Cobra2 meant the "corporation US of A" and the sheeple that refuse to address some very obvious issues, not the entire populace.

I took no offense, as the "awareness situation" leaves me saddened as well.

I count Cobra2 as one of the "seekers", and try to remember that cross-language communication does not always deliver concepts exactly as desired.


TopazBond/DX#1334116/23/05; 03:10:21

The Gaps I mentioned yesterday are much more obvious on this 15min chart.
It appears critical for Yields to fall in sync with a falling DX however, I can't see too many takers for Long Bond @ less than Zero% ...conclusion: any softness in Yields from hereon out will coincide with a higher DX.

Bullion Ag and it's newfound sucker-fish Paper Au are about to show some REAL muscles against the trend imo.

BoilermakerChina Buyouts#1334126/23/05; 08:26:02

First we saw China looking at Maytag, now Unocal, perhaps tomorrow Newmont and JP Morgan. They seem to be setting the stage for a chess game vis-a-vis the US whining about unfair trade and currency manipulation. I really think a bid for Newmont or JPM would create a bit of panic in the financial world.

Anyway, the Chinese are putting their hard earned $ to work, buying some of the last pieces of productive assets remaining in the US. T-bonds for oil and gold in deep storage. Good idea.

The Invisible HandDoes Drudge read this Forum?#1334136/23/05; 08:26:05

Drudge has an headline "Blair Keeps Open Option of Joining Euro... "
It sends you to this,,30000-13376077,00.html
but there's no talk in that article about Blair saying he keeps those options open, neither do other reports on other websites of Blair's speech this morning in the European Parliament refer to the euro.
What's happening?

The Invisible Handconfirmed#1334146/23/05; 08:37:31
UK prime minister Tony Blair said his country should keep its 'position open' on joining the euro and not focus on the currency's recent falls

KnallgoldGold is making new highs against euro and sFr.#1334156/23/05; 08:41:42

Gold is not only rising against computer,it is also rising against Goldmining!Very interesting...
GoldiloxStoopid Media - The G-8 Corporate Fest#1334166/23/05; 08:44:13


With the upcoming G-8 (plus five) meetings coming up, we notice that China is again talking about how their RMB currency is valued. The valuation of Chinese currency will have everything to do with whether Chinese companies can up their bid for Unocal, remember. Meantime, the follks of Scotland are battening down for possible violence because the anarchists are expected to show up to protest the G-8 meeting (as usual). And, in typical Stoopid Media fashion, the distinction between people who are genuinely concerned about corporatism's bad end and anarchists will be predictably missed.


In a discussion of the current global woes, I experienced the label "anarchist" recently, as the other party just did not fathom different levels of "dissenter", only "for" and "against"

It goes back to Dubya's warped Bible mis-quote, wherein he reverses Jesus' "If you are not against me, then you are for me", to D's infamous "If you're not with us, you're ag'in us!". Seems like a subtle distinction on the surface, but the former counts fence-sitters as friends, and the latter, as enemies . . . a big difference in practice.

GoldiloxCNOOC - UnoCal bid#1334176/23/05; 09:07:10

Those who have lurked or participated in discussions here over a longer term will recognize this as a revisited concern.

About a year ago, the Chinese deep pockets came over and bought up airplanes, building supplies and technologies, and inked some long-term deals for oil and metals acquisitions, including percentage purchases in some mining concerns.

Now, in an effort to further guarantee delivery of oil for their own "strategic reserve", the Chinese have bettered Chevron's $16.5 B offer for UnoCal with an $18 B response. Although UnoCal has already accepted the Chevron offer, fiduciary responsibilty requires them to review the offer before continuing.

Sir AG is making a statement today on his view of Chinese-US trade relations before CONgress and the threat of "protectionism".

It seems the Chinese, in addition to being shrewd dealers, are very timely politicians!

The Invisible HandFull text of Blair#1334186/23/05; 09:10:21;jsessionid=JIEI0WVKICRBZQFIQMGCM54AVCBQUJVC?xml=/news/2005/06/23/ublair2.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/06/23/ixportaltop.html

This is the full text of Blair's speech in the European Parliament. At first sight, he doesn't indeed mention Britain joining the euro.
Why these contradictory reports?

BoilermakerGlox#1334196/23/05; 09:24:45

Reference your bible quote "If you are not against me, then you are for me". Matthew 12:30 (NIV) says "He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters." While I share your jaundiced view of dubya I think his reference accurately reflects the bible verse.

With respect to China's recent aquisition flurry I think it reflects the beginning of a long and well planned effort to play their strong (paper $) hand against the bluster and bluff of US interests. Conversion of paper to hard assets is a no brainer for us goldbugs and now China seems to have caught the bug. I want to see how the Unocal bidding goes. If the directors recommend/accept a lower US bid they will be subject to many legal suits. It's possible the US Govt. will intervene on some "national interest" basis. If that happens the Chinese will have a strong case to ignore any more whining about their currency.

Belgian@ TIH#1334206/23/05; 09:26:58

Breaking news : Blair wants the UK to replace the pound by the lira...within 6 months.
GoldiloxMatt 12:30 or Mark 9:40?#1334216/23/05; 09:42:26

@ BM,

The version of the story in the Gospel of Mark reads:

"For he that is not against us is for us." Am Std Version

Interesting difference in the accounts by the two gospel authors.

GoldiloxMore on gospel differences#1334226/23/05; 09:47:41

@ BM,

Perhaps only slightly ironic that the more radical differentiation is attributed to a "tax collector".

Given the variation in accounts, it's obvious which would be chosen by a deficit-minded politician.

We probably should get back to topic, as it's only Thursday.

GoldiloxLIRA emulation - LOL#1334236/23/05; 09:54:06

@ Belgian,

It seems that Lira-envy may be a communicable disease, perhaps approaching epidemic proportions, as we experience bugger-thy-neighbor currency policies.

Gold and silver are up again this morning with NO accompanying USDX erosion.

See the Jim Rogers quote I posted yesterday.

"Governments will continue printing FIAT until all the trees are gone!"

USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.Proven Reliability, Longevity, Quality and Professionalism ---- Invest with Confidence!!#1334246/23/05; 11:35:15

USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.The Fruits of Your Labor#1334256/23/05; 11:45:54

Swiss gold francs

The Harvest
Whatever it is that you may have sown,
we'll give you the power to reap GOLD.

USAGOLD-Centennial has three decades of experience in the field

TopazG'lox#1334266/23/05; 12:00:41

Truth be told, Rogers quip is or was plagerised (sp?) from our very own TC who, several weeks ago, made a similar remark.

The logic that deflation can be contained by simply "printing money" is flawed in that all that is achieved is a continual deterioration of "return" as asset prices are inflated ...which actually begets MORE deflation.
A point is eventually reached where it becomes pointless to hold Zero Yielding Long Term Assets and these are abandoned en-masse for short-term (Cash-Gold).

This is the logical blow-by-blow scenario of a Deflation-Hyperinflation event and it appears we're so close right now!

Asset price inflation doesn't impact the overall trend to the extent that might be hoped G'lox.
The only road to "inflation" is consumer driven via Wage-price increases. Given the continued tech driven productivity miracle we continue to "enjoy", a classic "inflation" is but a pipe-dream from hereon out.

All IMHO of course.

YGMTopaz...Rogers Quote....#1334276/23/05; 12:18:17

Old Jim is a little ahead of the pack he made that comment in 2003 :-)

"Anyone who thinks there will be deflation does not understand twenty-first-century central banking. There may well be a deflationary collapse later, but before that happens the government will print money until the world runs out of trees."

Jim Rogers,
Adventure Capitalist (2003)

TopazKen#1334286/23/05; 12:34:19

My humblest apologies to Mr Rogers in that case.
TownCrierTopaz, on deforestation, 'flations, money, and gold#1334296/23/05; 13:09:38

Might you be thinking of someone else? I've certainly conveyed sentiment regarding inflationary expectations, but I most certainly would have had no part in propagating any further that anachronistic bluster about money and trees/paper.

I would embrace Jim Rodgers 2003 quote (see YGM) only so far. This much I agree with:

"Anyone who thinks there will be deflation does not understand twenty-first-century central banking." --JR

From that junction I would depart from his train of thought, and ride these rails instead:

"At the present time, by and large the culmination of all past experience has handed down a guiding principal by which independent central banks take aim at general price stability -- operating to PREVENT deflation while striving to COMBAT inflation." --RS

The most radical reforms in our history of monetary banking have come out of the dire war for the prevention of deflation. Most notable among them is the establishment of banking networks and central banks on one front, and the transition to fiat currency on another.

Secondary to that war objective, on the inflationary front there has been merely a long, grinding battle in which the plan has been to yield ground as slowly and steadily as possible without compromising the condition on the deflationary fronts.

As we all are participants upon this field, to safely travel through time and place choose a heavily-armored tank of gold!


GoldiloxSupreme Court Rules Cities May Seize Homes#1334306/23/05; 13:29:02


By William Branigin
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, June 23, 2005; 3:02 PM

The Supreme Court today effectively expanded the right of local governments to seize private property under eminent domain, ruling that people's homes and businesses -- even those not considered blighted -- can be taken against their will for private development if the seizure serves a broadly defined "public use."

In a 5-4 decision, the court upheld the ability of New London, Conn., to seize people's homes to make way for an office, residential and retail complex supporting a new $300 million research facility of the Pfizer pharmaceutical company. The city had argued that the project served a public use within the meaning of the Takings Clause of the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution because it would increase tax revenues, create jobs and improve the local economy.

A group of homeowners in New London's Fort Trumbull area had fought the city's attempt to impose eminent domain, arguing that their property could be seized only to serve a clear public use such as building roads or schools or to eliminate blight. The homeowners, some of whom had lived in their house for decades, also argued that the public would benefit from the proposed project only if it turned out to be successful, making the "public use" requirement subject to the eventual performance of the private business venture.

The Fifth Amendment also requires "just compensation" for the owners, but that was not an issue in the case decided today because the homeowners did not want to give up their property at any price.

Writing for the majority, Justice John Paul Stevens said the case turned on the question of whether New London's development plan served a "public purpose." He added, "Without exception, our cases have defined that concept broadly, reflecting our longstanding policy of deference to legislative judgments in this field."

The majority endorsed the view that local governments are better placed than federal courts to decide whether development projects serve a public purpose and will benefit the community, justifying the acquisition of land through eminent domain. In his opinion, Stevens wrote that "for more than a century," the high court has favored "affording legislatures broad latitude in determining what public needs justify the use of the takings power."

New London officials "were not confronted with the need to remove blight in the Fort Trumbull area, but their determination that the area was sufficiently distressed to justify a program of economic rejuvenation is entitled to our deference," Stevens wrote. "The City has carefully formulated an economic development plan that it believes will provide appreciable benefits to the community, including--but by no means limited to--new jobs and increased tax revenue."


Now your property can be siezed not only for "public use", but for some promoted "public benefit".Developers must be drooling at the opportunity to convince planning commissions that their "pet project" fits the new ruling, so they can justify taking any property they want for some perceived "public good."

TopazTC#1334316/23/05; 13:35:20

Randy, at the time (back then) I recall thinking what a beautifully apt impression it (the tree analogy) conveyed ...and crediting YOU with it went hand in glove with that thought.

My Kingdom for a search-engine?

CoBra(too)OvS#1334326/23/05; 13:50:18

Mr. Otto, Oswald, Oscar or whatever von S. - Yes you can tell me I'm wrong - and I usually are in the short term.

Unfortunately the bigger picture has proven more often than not to be pretty accurate. And yes I didn't mean your typical US of A citizen, patriot or else I would have said patridiot ...

No, I would not want to engage in any peppery answer, as I'm a bit annoyed by your rather intrinsic knowlege of my family history and your rather indiscriminate use of your sleuthing.

Thanks, though thank you no - I wouldn't want to go into further discussions with you - Mein General-Feldwebel!


To all my old friends of the forum I would like to state that the US of A was meant as Uncle Sam is meant - The Admin! Thank you

PS: A special thanks to CM - There's some great Iris(h)tocracy around here...

YGMTopaz...#1334336/23/05; 14:34:08

Hey I don't think Jim would mind getting confused w/ TC. After all we know there is a major sharing & similarity of intellect. We can't have JR's thoughts and sound advice here, but I agree we're fortunate to have Randy and MK's views among some of the other great posters & thinkers :-)

YGMCoBra(too)#1334346/23/05; 14:45:07

Greetings from one old goldbug to another..Long time no talk..Fishing season is here, the grass is green, birds in the trees. Might even dig out the Gold pan this summer.
Have a good one! Papua New Guinea next & on to Bolivia (if the masses settle down there) Life is good. Gold won't rot!

TownCrierTopaz, no harm done, mate#1334356/23/05; 14:53:19

You've simply given more credit to me than I deserve... and I thank you for the generosity.

Speaking of "credit", it brings us back to the theme of our discussion. My point being...

credit: no trees required.



slingshotIt's The Greatest Show On Earth!#1334366/23/05; 14:59:36

Greenspan and Snow sure had their hands full as question after question was fired at them. Both were "Tip Toeing Through the Tulips",using their Street Smarts as they used the Street Signs, to navigate the Congressional terrain.
What the Heck was accomplished by this Meeting?
Here is my take on the meeting.

We have a problem.
Yes, and its getting bigger.
Do you have a plan?
No, but you knew it was a problem for sometime.
Yeah, What do we blame this problem on.
Our educational system?
Wow and they will not know the difference.
How about another meeting at the Plaza?
The Plaza, where the Minestrone soup is fantastic.
O.K. Make sure we invite everyone.
What will we talk about?
You Know.
Want to invite the Chinese?
We have discussed plenty about China. Trade /Military/ Economy/Political/ Currency.
They Have No PLAN!

They are Running Scared. M3 on the rise? If it is, there might be something over the horizon.

TownCrierGoldilox, (msg#: 133430) on the seizing of homes#1334376/23/05; 15:05:57

Another good argument in favor of choosing PORTABLE property --- GOLD.

The case you've cited is, even in my own even-tempered opinion, an outrageous abrogation of the market by government intervention that bodes horribly upon the (now quaint) notion that a man's home is his castle.

A wise king will always be sure he is positioned and able to pack up the bulk of his treasury (gold) and leave the bricks (house) behind, if needs be.


GoldiloxTrees#1334386/23/05; 15:25:31

@ TC & Jim Rogers,

My congratulations to you both for your deepfelt concern over the problems of deforestation!

"God bless the grass that grows through the crack.
They roll the concrete over it, and it grows right back.
And God bless the truth. The friend of the poor,
And the wild grass growing at the poor man's door.
God bless the grass. God bless the grass."

- Pete Seeger

GoldiloxInterest levels and housing bubble#1334396/23/05; 15:48:08


1. As the Current Account deficit grows in percentage GDP terms faster than the Trade Deficit it implies an exit of dollars for exogenous reasons.
2. The expansion of a Current Account deficit by itself or faster than the expansion of the Trade Deficit means a growing supply of dollars are entering the international currency market.
3. Increased supply devoid of increased demand or a neutral supply/demand situation means the dollar will go lower.
4. A lower dollar implies a loss on US treasuries purchased by non-US entities.
5. Such losses will have to be offset by appreciation of the bonds purchased which means rates must continue downward. Failure to witness dollar appreciation in this case or at least a constant dollar value says the buyers are masochistic in monetary terms. Central banks may be while others are not.

So the conclusion offered above is possible but improbable as everything has limits. At 3.5% short term money, the US economy's cost of money is really zero percent. This is true because inflation is predicted even on the skewed inflationary indices at 3.5% one year from today.

That means that the entire result of the much advertised Fed measured increases in the Discount Rate is that we have moved from a negative real rate of interest to a zero return on short term money. This is the engine behind the housing bubble. This is the engine behind the carry trade. This is the engine behind the coming inflation caused by Bernanke's injection of massive amounts of US dollars into the global economy that simply can't be withdrawn.

The tech market overpriced itself and imploded in 2001. Gold overpriced itself in 1980 and imploded. The dollar over priced itself over 100 USDX and imploded. Housing is over pricing itself and will also implode. Tulips over priced themselves and imploded. The South Sea Bubble over priced itself and imploded. So why should this be any different?

We should not be trying to split deep economic hairs but rather draw a trendline under the US housing sales and price appreciation charts so when the technicals collapse it will be obvious to everyone.

All the balls that have been kept in the air prove that the present Administration is damn smart and "market able" but even that has its limits.


Sinclair adds some insight into the inflafla issues and the impact of monetary policy.

TownCrierGood quip from DowJones...#1334406/23/05; 16:10:18

Dan Vaught, futures analyst with A.G. Edwards:

"I think a lot of Europeans are buying gold with their euros as safe-haven or flight-to-quality type buying," he said. While an alternative might be to buy dollars, he continued, "a lot of folks in the world, including myself, are not terribly confident about the outlook in the dollar, either."

^------(end snip)----^

It is not a question of transactional currency, but rather an issue of ensuring integrity in the selection of your RESERVE (savings) asset. Hence the irresistible paradigm shift away from the dollar-bond based reserve structure in favor of MTM gold reserves as the essential core of central banking portfolios and of all thinking people around the world.


USAGOLD Daily Market ReportPage Update!#1334416/23/05; 16:15:30">
The Daily Gold Market Report has been updated.

If you are considering investments in gold we invite you to">request our free introductory information packet detailing the products and services offered by USAGOLD ~ Centennial Precious Metals. We welcome your inquiry and look forward to working with you.

Thursday Market Excerpts

June 23 (from MarketWatch) -- Gold futures closed at their highest level in three months Thursday, shrugging off a stronger dollar.

"Gold's ability to defy a stronger U.S. dollar, the constant rehashed talks about IMF and central bank sales and the constant doubts from mainstream Wall Street who refuse to see economic upheaval on the horizon has set the stage for new highs above $455 sooner than most think," said Peter Grandich, editor of the Grandich Letter.

COMEX August futures tacked on $3.50 to close at $443.20.

"The reason for gold being higher despite the strength in the dollar is that the commodities, particularly oil, are up, and we still have good physical demand for gold," said Refco analyst Jim Steele.

"The physical demand is very good from the Middle East and from Asia."

The dollar continued to offer little direction for the metals market. The greenback furthered its advance against the euro and gained against the yen, after a U.S. report showed some labor market improvement and highlighted a divergence between European economic conditions and the pace of growth in the United States and Japan.

"Gold continues to push ever higher and is looking to break out to a new weekly high," said Dale Doelling, chief market technician at Trends in Commodities.

Most analysts reiterated their bullish outlook for gold in the short term. "I don't expect this market to do anything but continue on its current course," added Doelling.

"This trend is strong, and other than the usual short-term retracements, it makes sense to buy any break for further gains."

But Octagon gold analyst Paolo Lostritto pointed out that gold looks bearish in the short term, although the long-term outlook is very different.

"There is a possibility for a correction in the gold price in the short term ... In the longer term, the U.S. dollar is going to suffer severely and that's why we are big believers in gold," he added.

----(see url for full news, 24-hr headlines)---

arbyhGold will reach 6000 @ oz a lot quicker then it will reach 600 @ oz#1334426/23/05; 16:29:06

Gold will reach 6000 @ oz a lot quicker then it will reach 600 @ oz. When the bough breaks, from anyone of many that could, gold will reach for the moon.
Topazalt-currency Gold-15 Yr.#1334436/23/05; 18:15:27

Apart from late '96, this period is the only time in 15Yr's that Gold has moved contrary to alt-DX.

Has the transition from "currency" Gold to "free" Gold begun?

masThe Joker...#1334446/23/05; 18:22:43

Reactions to Blair at European Parliament
After Tony Blair's presentation on the upcoming British EU presidency came some intense reactions from the leaders of the parliament's political groups. Hans-Gert Pottering spoke for the largest group, the conservatives; Martin Schulz spoke for the second-largest, the socialists, and so on.

Following the debate, Daniel Cohn-Bendit, the German co-president of the European Greens group in parliament, said Blair had an especially testing time ahead:

"The problem for every president of the Union is can he have the vision not as the British prime minister but as European leader. It's not the same, it's not identical. As British prime minister he defends British interests; It's normal; as European leader you must defend European interests, and this is not the same."

Polish liberal former foreign minister and now an MEP Bronislaw Geremek was less than happy with what he had heard:

"We have grounds for disappointment in Mister Tony Blair's speech; he didn't stress the importance of having policies of solidarity with the new member states."

Indicating there might be some promise in the British EU presidency, European Policy Centre analyst John Palmer saw a man in clear evolution:

"He is much less arrogant that he was after the end of the European Council, he has also begun to show more flexibility in what he is actually expecting to achieve: on agricultural reform, more long-term rather than short-term changes -- on the British budget rebate, by admitting its days are probably numbered."

Blair has said he is confident he can coordinate a budget accord for an enlarged Europe during his six months at the helm.

GoldiloxScience Hour#1334456/23/05; 19:40:42

In his Weekly Radio broadcast tonight, Jim McCanney talks about the "funding" of Tier 1 and Tier 2 science, NASA, and NOAA, and how they relate to IMF/WB monetary and military control.

He also talks about independent space activities and their "perceived threat" to the M-I space monopoly.

I loved his description:

"Basically, all these loans to 3rd world poverty-stricken countries is "Monopoly money" whose value is only manintained outside US borders by military and intelligence control.

Forgiving the debt is like reshuffling the bank in a big Monopoly game."

Good show this week. Scroll down his page to the archives to access the audio. He usually posts each week's link late Thursday night or early Friday morning.

Liberty HeadThat's The Way The Constitution Crumbles#1334486/23/05; 20:29:51

Well, our government has given itself increased power to seize property. Isn't that nice?
That's another good reason to own more gold instead of more real estate.

The anti-flag burning ammendment is next. The timing makes perfect sense. I expect more citizens will be inclined to burn the flag in the near future.

It is excruciatingly painful to see what this country has become.
I would rather have pride in my country than $6000 gold. $6000 gold is the only option though.

Best Wishes

Smeagol #1334496/23/05; 20:51:47

"The ash-heaps of history are piled high with governments, not countries." (we doesn't know the source of this quote.)

So we say, take pride in the country, from which comes gold, and never in government, from which comes fiat.


BelgianAttention please....#1334506/24/05; 01:01:11

Henry C K Liu and Another have been meeting !!!
CaradocThe hounds are loose!#1334516/24/05; 02:31:48

The pattern this evening is that breaks below 443 are less and less convincing and the rebounds above 443 are sharper and steeper. So, at least some probability of breaking past 446 tomorrow, in'sh'Allah.

While typing the above, 10-second chart showed support forming at 443.02 and excursions above 443.30. My hunch is that we're about to see new multiyear highs. Again, that's if the good Lord is willing and the creek don't rise.


NedBIG question!#1334526/24/05; 04:28:26

Well the media and the pundits sure have been on a major theme in the last few weeks. Apparently it is a given that the US and global economies are in the earliest stages of a massive rollover.

I must ask one and all:

a) do you see this?

b) what impact will this have on our favorite topic, gold?


slingshotNed#1334536/24/05; 06:24:57

Yes Ned. I do see it happening. The world has become smaller and more complex almost like Physics. A object will remain still untill another force reacts with it. E=mc2, Mass x Acceleration = Force. What goes up, must come down. The market is simular to a nuclear reactor with the controll rods being removed one by one and not replaced. The warning lights are flashing yet the operators are pushing the core to produce more heat to make more electricity. I see it . Why don't others see it. Most of us have half a brain and have learned not to touch a hot oven. Is it that people are wrapped up in their hedonistic lives so much they have no use for the politics of the country. What bothers me the most Ned, is when you try to inform them the problems is the ridicule you get in return. We Know Too Much! And what we know does not fit into others lives and it upsets their apple cart.
The impact on our favorite Topic of Gold? With all the new laws,unemployment,pension reductions,bankruptcies things will change.Gold will be hidden till the smell of cosmuline and cordite disappear. This is not the same USA and the World Knows It.

GoldiloxAtimes link#1334546/24/05; 07:51:34

@ Belgian

Your atimes link to Henry CK Liu is broken.


otish mountainTry This#1334556/24/05; 07:54:27

only part way thru it . Good reading .
Gandalf the WhiteOOPS -- The COMEX "Banksters" could not stand the "HEAT" !#1334566/24/05; 09:08:22

Wait til next week !

TownCrierAM gold market#1334576/24/05; 10:46:20

NEW YORK, June 24 (Reuters) - U.S. gold futures eased a tad Friday morning as traders grabbed profits after a spike to three-month highs, but prices quickly uncovered support and many players expected more gains soon, dealers said.

By 10:08 a.m. EDT, August delivery gold was off 80 cents at $442.40 an ounce on the New York Mercantile Exchange...

"Some profit taking has been seen on the U.S. opening today but gold feels as if it wants to push higher over the coming sessions, with likely targets being $445 and $448," said analyst James Moore at

"End of week book-squaring is a risk though, particularly after the recent gains with no obvious consolidation. A close nearer $435 would not surprise me," he said.

In dollar terms, gold futures are up almost 6 percent so far this month and around 2.8 percent since the start of 2005.

The rally has been fueled by investment funds piling more money into commodities, partly as a diversification away from currencies into hard assets, traders and analysts have said.

"The commodities super-cycle story is gaining momentum each week with continued record crude oil prices" and higher metals and other goods, Macquarie Bank in a report overnight.

Crude oil prices rose to touch $60 a barrel for a second day, extending a streak of record highs that have yet to curb robust U.S. energy demand.

^-----(see url for full article)----^

Call USAGOLD-Centennial Precious Metals to speak to a broker about a physical gold ownership and discuss a diversification strategy that's right for you and your investment goals.

1-800-869-5115, Extension 100


TownCrierOlson ought to (but doesn't dare) mention gold in the 'Ownership Society'#1334586/24/05; 11:07:58

Remarks by Fed Governor Mark W. Olson
At the Community Development Policy Summit: Exploring the Benefits and Challenges of an Ownership Society
Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland, Cleveland, Ohio
June 23, 2005

Revisiting Traditional Paths to Ownership

I'm pleased to be here today to discuss the benefits and challenges of the ownership society. ... We all want to create healthy, sustainable local economies that provide good jobs, decent housing, and educational opportunities for everyone. At the core of all community development activity is the understanding that individual ownership is one of the most important components of economic and social success, whether in the form of the purchase of a home or an investment in education or a small business.

Immigrants instinctively understand that America is an ownership society and, in fact, come here in search of the ownership opportunities that increase the well-being of family members both here and at home. Immigrant communities often create their own economies, establishing the relationships necessary to support one another in finding work, starting small businesses, pursuing education, and purchasing homes. This model has worked for generations of newcomers to the United States.

...As federal policy has evolved, its role has shifted from being the sole source of funding through direct appropriation to providing tax incentives and credit enhancements that encourage private investment by offsetting risk. The federal government also plays an important role in creating incentives for private investment, encouraging innovation, and protecting consumers. Federal policy, when properly implemented, can smooth the path to ownership by ensuring that markets operate efficiently.

In my remarks, I will discuss two of the most traditional and reliable paths to ownership in our society: homeownership and entrepreneurial pursuits.

^-----(full speech at url)----^

As a counterpoint, however, please see yesterday's discussion for disturbing new latitude in the imposition of eminent domain for the seizure of homes to serve a more broadly defined "public use".

Thus, it is wise not to put all of your (nest)eggs into one (home ownership) basket. Diversify. Choose gold coins and bullion and have all the benefits of ownership, with the added benefits of liquidity, divisibility, and mobility. There is no wonder that around the world gold is the universal savings asset.


TownCrierAdvice from yesterday's Daily Market Report...#1334596/24/05; 11:17:42

..."we still have good physical demand for gold," said Refco analyst Jim Steele. "The physical demand is very good from the Middle East and from Asia."

"Gold continues to push ever higher and is looking to break out to a new weekly high," said Dale Doelling, chief market technician at Trends in Commodities.

"I don't expect this market to do anything but continue on its current course," added Doelling. "This trend is strong, and other than the usual short-term retracements, it makes sense to buy any break for further gains."

^-----(from url)-----^

If you would like to be a well-positioned and mobile member of the "Ownership Society" with tangible wealth instead of IOUs, call USAGOLD-Centennial to stake your claim on gold coins and bullion at today's prices.


TownCriermelda laure, looks like a bad neighborhood!#1334606/24/05; 11:59:46

I'm sure, whatever problems we have here on Earth, they absolutely pale when compared to life in this other nearby solar system. (see link for Hubble image)

"A spectacular, luminous ring offers the best evidence yet that a nearby star is circled by a newly formed solar system. The ring is composed of dust particles in orbit around Fomalhaut, a bright star located just 25 light years away in the constellation Pisces Austalis – or the Southern Fish. A recent image captured with the Hubble Space Telescope - which makes the system look uncannily like the Great Eye of Sauron from the blockbusting Lord of the Rings trilogy - confirms that Fomalhaut's ring is curiously offset with respect to the star."

I guess this signals that "open forum" and the weekend are officially upon us. Thoughts on gold during this time, however, remain as appreciated as always.


GoldiloxCrude Reality $60/bbl#1334616/24/05; 12:07:17

Lt Sweet Crude has turned around from some profit taking, and is now at $59.90 and climbing.

Betting against T. Boone Pickins in the oil patch (he who predicted $100/bbl) is not often a healthy endeavor.

mikal@Goldilox#1334626/24/05; 14:39:12

Re: "Crude Reality"
Yes, it's cruddy isn't it? But maybe there will be a silver lining in this POO raw deal- we get to own and drive alternative fuel cars sooner rather than past our expiration dates.
Proving that financial necessity is one of the oldest mothers of invention, inflationary utility and gas bills
help galvanize attraction to the primordial golden raw material. The impulses of current events flow with
the same raw energy, connecting the planet with it's roots.

USAGOLD Daily Market ReportPage Update!#1334636/24/05; 15:56:11">
The Daily Gold Market Report has been updated.

If you are considering investments in gold we invite you to">request our free introductory information packet detailing the products and services offered by USAGOLD ~ Centennial Precious Metals. We welcome your inquiry and look forward to working with you.

Friday Market Excerpts

June 24 (from MarketWatch) -- Gold futures closed lower Friday but logged a $2-an-ounce gain for the week with analysts upbeat on the outlook for the precious metal.

After gold climbed past $440 an ounce Thursday, "there is probably not much between here and $450" for the metal, says Thomas Hartmann, analyst at Altavest Worldwide Trading.

"We may see bears regroup with heavy selling pressure at those highs," he wrote in a recent note to clients, adding that profit-taking could limit gains but "a larger rally could be brewing."

On the New York Mercantile Exchange, August contracts fell $1.20 to close at $442. A week ago, the contract closed at $440.

The focus of the recent gold rally "has not been the dollar but crude," said Charles Nedoss, analyst at Peak Trading Group. "Gold has followed the crude market and focused on inflationary implications of higher crude," he added, noting that "this not only stokes the inflationary fire but adds to the cost of production for a host of industries, as well the cost of mining."

For now, "the geopolitical dynamic has taken a back seat with the dollar but will come to the forefront next week when President Bush talks," emphasizing the "fact that we're not gaining much traction in Iraq," Nedoss said.

Looking ahead, "the icing on the cake for the bulls next week would be dollar weakness."

---(see url for full news, 24-hr headlines)---

GoldiloxKudlow and Co.#1334646/24/05; 16:18:16

My amusement for today was watching Larry the Legend blaming the "fear of protectionism" as the scapegoat for two 125 point drops in the DOW.

He actually said, "It's not like oil is any kind of 'strategic industry'!"

It's NOT?

Let's see, oil cutoffs fueled the decision of Imperial Japan to attack Pearl Harbor in 1941, was rumored to be an important driving factor in the VietNam conflict, certainly plays a major role in the Middle East unrest, and drives the current Caspian tensions. But it is not "strategic"?

OK, let's play this one out. CNOOC buys UnoCal. Chinese oil workers begin displacing American and European oil workers, especially management, adding to the bonepiles of high-tech and manufacturing. Then one day, Taiwan tensions reach a boil and CNOOC says something like, "CNOOC oil supplies can no longer be delivered to countries who support the "rebels" on Taiwan, as they are considered a potential 'terrorist' threat.", or whatever more acceptable diplomatic language is spun.

Now the US government is caught between a rock and a hard place. Give up support for Taiwan completely, or give up access to offshore UnoCal oil.

Nope, definitely not a "strategic industry", but the globalists sure wann give up their shares for a quick profit.

GoldiloxThe Supremes#1334656/24/05; 16:30:48


Judging by the emails, people are feeling very much betrayed by the Supreme Court, which has set off a firestorm of reader reaction - none of it favorable. From the relative comfort and safety of the Canadian side of the border, New Hound Tim B of our Canada Bureau offers this perspective:

I have seen it noted before that whenever any high court comes out with a damning verdict against the Constitution, it will ALWAYS be a 5-4 ruling! ALWAYS!

This is to make it appear to the sheeple that there was much hand-wringing and anguish over the ruling, and that the result should not appear to be alarming or cause for concern--after all, the ruling was Sooooo close!

What is missing to most is the point that I believe is being taken as too narrow a view on the verdict--if one goes back to the Founding Fathers, they were arguing that only males "with property" should be allowed to vote. They had good reason, as with mob rule demoncracy, the voters who have everything to gain because they have nothing to lose will always keep asking for more from the trough, until the system implodes.

Point is, at that time, I believe, "property" meant ANY and ALL ASSETS, not just a homestead. After all, there was cattle, horses, furniture, perhaps a smithy business, etc.

So today's verdict is much more worrisome than it even first appears!


Interesting take on the long term utility of the Supreme Court over at Of course, even George forgot to include GOLD as a property asset.

BoilermakerKudlow#1334666/24/05; 16:41:30

Glox, This guy is the most incredible shill on TV. Whenever I see him I marvel at the pure BS that comes from him. He is a shameless characiture(sic) of modern US capitalism. He will earn a place in history as the Pied Piper of stupid investors, leading them blissfully into the swamp of no return. May he soon feel the wrath of the madding mobs and be banished forever from society.
GoldiloxFormer IRS CID agent acquitted of Tax Fraud and Conspiracy#1334676/24/05; 16:41:35

The page is not copyable, so click the URL for more info.
arbyhThe "Right Wing" is a dangerous thing.#1334686/24/05; 17:03:20

With the new supreme court decision it all falls into place for the right wing. They have now puppeted Bush into:
-Inheritance laws that will consolidate wealth over generations.
-Tax breaks for the wealthy, while the country is at war and going broke.
-govt. ability to confiscate property for private interests.
-Bankruptcy laws that allow everything except your IRA to be grabbed. It had to go to the supreme court to protect even the IRA.
-Homeland security laws that will allow power to be used for practically any reason against citizens. Plus unlawful long term detention without due process for citizens.
-I'm sure I have left a few out.
Add on the Social Security 2 trillion dollar rip off, the national debt, trade imbalance and consumer have many seeds of disillusionment of ma and pa middle America. However when that time comes the tools of total govt dominance are already in place. Just do a trend analysis of what is and where it will lead.

GoldendomeRichard Duncan on lower long term interest rates.#1334696/24/05; 17:04:36

Richard Duncan, in an updated chapter from his book, "The Dollar Crisis", explains what is worrying the Chairman. Has the Fed lost control of interest rates? Duncan examines the recycling of the burgeoning U.S. current account deficit in an atmosphere of slightly lower Government debt issuance and dollar centric world.

Duncan's article has similarities of thought in areas with the Henry Liu article that was linked earlier today. See if you can spot them.

A short read with PICTURES!

SundeckA "fair price" for oil - Matt Simmons#1334706/24/05; 17:15:54

Boilermaler, Goldilox, mikal, et al.,

Matt Simmons was interviewed on Australian public radio (In the National Interest) a few days ago...discussing Hubbert's peak and the uncertainty surrounding Saudi fields etc.

He referred to the concept of a "fair price" for a commodity. He did not detail the factors that determine a "fair price" (presumeably they involve the commodity's usefulness, its cost of delivery, its long-term availability, the degree to which it may be substituted for in applications, its "strategic importance", etc), but he did say that he thought a present fair price for oil is in the "mid triple figures"...that is around $500 per barrel...presumeably in 2005-dollars.

Who knows what the price will be as the dollar depreciates over time???

Perhaps no need to get a horse just yet, but maybe better brush up on equestrian knowledge and skills...


GoldiloxLeft Wing, Right Wing, Thigh, Breast and Chicken Wings#1334716/24/05; 17:58:46

@ arbyh,

While matriculating in the 50's and 60's, it was often suggested to me that extremes in either direction were dangerous, and Hitler and Stalin were portrayed as the pinnacles of those extreme right-left wing motions (Actually, the only difference between them was that Hitler's tyranny utilized "corporate middlemen" instead of direct state "ownership".

Then along came the late 60's and VietNam, where the media supported a very unpopular war effort as long as they could and claimed those who dissented admin war policy were "traitors and radicals" until the media and Congress finally succumbed to popular opinion.

In the most recent national elections, centrist Democrats were demonized by the NeoCon-owned media and replaced by candidates from the richest, rightmost segment of the Democratic party (those who, in my youth, attained the title "good ole' boyz"). Modern exit polling was touted as "faulty" - which is scarey, as that same polling method is still used to determine almost every other issue in teh media.

Now that even centrists are labeled radicals, the only powers seem to be the right, the extreme religious right, and "slightly to the right of Genghis Khan", as my Dad (a life long Republican) used to say.

We do not live in a politically balanced society where left and right haggle for a compromise somewhere in the middle. Those with alternative views to the ruling ultra-right have been essentially politically disenfranchised.

Third-party politics was traditionally looked upon as grass-roots efforts to overcome the two-party gridlock. There was even a popular "hard-money" party at the beginning of the 20th century. Nowadays, third-party efforts are more often labeled as "some pariah just trying to create unrest", and media gives them zero airtime, thanks to the Reagan era dismantling of FCC fair campaign rules.

Maybe we're in for a swing back toward some kind of left-right balance as a result of this impending collapse of economic gluttony, but I suspect this will not occur without significant blow-back from those who have enjoyed the fruits from this imbalance - even to the point of dirty-tricking us to believe we can't afford to lighten their control in any way - maybe even a second Reich-stag fire!

I'm also concerned that the surprising support for the CNOOC purchase of UnoCal is a setup - as it is coming from the traditionally hard-line anti-communists. They're all in too big a hurry to make a quick buck on their UnoCal stock from the Chinese while it is up 3X.

A lot of mention of the Japanese RE asset accumulation in the 1980's surfaced during the discussions today. Do some actually believe they can sucker the Chinese into buying Disneyland just before a RE collapse? Not likely. "This time it's different" might just mean a different player finds himself chair-less when the music stops. UnoCal and it's long term oil holdings is probably a more comfy chair (i.e. strategic holding) than Disneyland RE in the long run.

Just my political $0.02 on an open forum Friday,


P.S. Who here would have traded an oz. of IT for a Trillion DMs in 1923, with the suspicion that the next day it might be worth 2T? The scramble for paper is getting just weird enough that Gold and Silver are starting to ignore their squabbles.

GoldiloxEquestrian skills#1334726/24/05; 18:08:48

@ Sundeck,

I suspect if things get bad enough to benefit much from "equestrian skills", said horse would be of infintely more value plowing ground or providing steaks!

GoldiloxThree Great Big Lies#1334736/24/05; 18:12:33


The financial press & media has promoted three major league gargantuan lies. The lies support the established financial sector. They pertain to bonds, economic growth, and oil supply. The time has come to stand on the rooftops and shout "LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE." Be sure to know that the US population is subjected to hundreds of repeated lies, bold lies. Three big lies stand out as current critical underpinning pillars of propaganda.

1) Strong foreign demand exists to purchase US Treasury Bonds
2) The US Economy is expanding at over a 3.5% growth rate
3) Speculators are driving up the crude oil price

The United States is no longer a place where the truth is held dear, where truth is of paramount importance. In fact, truth has become a tactical tool to deceive and control the masses in the new age of Orwell we find ourselves lodged within. Information is a weapon. The above are major lies, made worse due to their critical importance. If the public comes to learn that foreign central banks have almost lost faith in our government bonds, then both the stock & bond markets will falter, and the housing market will enter a decline. If the economy is in a stall at 2% growth or less, not the robust expansion we are told, then US Federal Reserve tightening is highly likely to lead to accidents, not the least of which is a recession. If crude suffers from severe supply problems, then new capital is urgently required to invest in new production to bring oil to market. Energy producers need their stocks at higher values in order to raise critical capital. The economies need oil like a car needs radiator fluid, like a human body needs blood (and water). The age of disinformation has gone over the edge in boldness. The system is officially at risk from lies, spin, promotional information, vested interest forecasts, political ambition, and the motive to defuse trade war. The truth has sadly become an expedient. Has dishonesty become institutionalized within the USA culture, at least the financial sector? One must wonder.


Jim Willie CB ponders the value of information and, well, disinformation in unraveling the current conundra!

J-BullionKudlow#1334746/24/05; 18:46:19

Goldilock and Boilermaker:

While we are Kudlow bashing, I figured I would jump in relate my favorite Kudlowism from a month or so ago. He basically stated (seriously, without laughing) that the U.S. should include IMPORTS into how we calculate our GDP. I was actually flabbergasted, I didn't know whether to laugh, or cry at the fact that there were people out there that actually listened to his nonsene.

Imagine how high our GDP would be if we were all unemployed and the Fraud...I mean FED (same thing) just printed up some FRN's to buy all those cheap Asian imports. I mean according to Kudlow's logic, the U.S. could make paper throw some ink on it and buy up the world, and our GDP would be massive, and we wouldn't actually be doing a damn thing but sitting on our butts. And this crap passes for economics these days...........unreal.

GoldendomeHow about Kudlow's former running mate#1334756/24/05; 20:24:51

Jim Cramer-Have you glimpsed any of his show "Mad Money" on CNBC, I believe. That show is a glimpse of investor gone mad. A surreal financial Gong Show! With Cramer- the instant reality investment show know it all- for every company any where. Unbelievable that it's on the air!
TopazBIG Bubbles? ...yes Troubles!#1334766/25/05; 00:29:45

I've put this one up before to highlight the degree of irrationality in the market-place at this time.
Clearly, rampant money creation has powered both Stocks and Bonds these last 12mth's as such, the market types are left without an "exit-strategy" should things turn ugly.

Weighting in the SnP would favour "domestic" trade and DOW leans heavily toward "international" so, given the inability of DX to retrace to sub85, small wonder DOW is on a much more slippery slope at present.

Can we expect DX to retreat from here? Hardly likely as Bond Yields simply don't have too much left on the upside to accomodate the Bubble to end all bubbles (Buck-Bubble) could be just around the corner.

Topaz...and with Gold now looking papery,#1334776/25/05; 01:47:52

it too handed a bit back to the alts.

Ag goes "hot" next week to focus once more on "reality"

SundeckOpen Forum: Iraq versus Vietnam - oil, gold and the dollar.#1334786/25/05; 06:29:32

This Iraq thing is awakening old memories and likenesses to Vietnam in my mind... Here is a (brief) mostly-Australian perspective:

1. Emphasis on training the locals. Australia and the US both contributed enormous resources in the 60s and early 70s to train the South Vietnamese forces in the mistaken assumption that they would be able to pick up the baton and allow Australia and the US to eventually run victorious from the field. However, local resistance was no match for the North Vietnamese/Viet Cong who were fighting for homeland freedom and unification rather than vague idealism in a foreign land. Allied resistance crumbled and sent a flood of collaborator-refugees, "boat people", in all directions. So too in Iraq, there is great emphasis on training the local army and constabulary with, as is becoming apparent, similar success. These "collaborators" are targeted by the Iraqi resistance and blown to bits in ever increasing numbers.

2. Vague, idealistic "cause". In the 60s, Australians were fed the notion of the "horrors of communism", the "yellow peril" and the risk of successive collapse to communist rule of countries to the north...the so-called "domino theory" the reason for its military involvement and support for the US in Vietnam. In Iraq we were fed the totally fallacious "weapons of mass destruction" argument as the reason for involvement and support for the US. As this has been shown to be no better than emotive lies, the argument is now one of "freeing the world of a cruel dictator" (probably true, but only one cruel dictator...a very special one...of many) and ushering in a new order of democratic freedom for the oppressed people of the region. In Vietnam, our involvement was supposedly "requested" by the (corrupt/puppet) South-Vietnamese government. In the case of Iraq, no such initial invitation was made (smile), but there is now an attempt to legitimise US/UK/Oz involvement through the "democratically elected" government of Iraq – perhaps not so dissimilar to the historical circumstances in Vietnam.

3. Mounting resistance in the US and Australia. There is a difference far. The manpower commitment to Vietnam by Australia was substantially more than it presently is for Iraq. That ushered in an era of national service which was bitterly opposed...not the least because the age for entering the national service ballot was 18 years, whereas the voting age for national elections was 21 years. Thus youth was being drafted with absolutely no say in what they thought of the whole affair. I suspect that this (the unfair draft and the scale of involvement for a savage war for no clearly defined reason) is probably why there were large public anti-Vietnam demonstrations in the 60s and early 70s, which ultimately lead to the defeat of the conservative government of the day and Australia's withdrawal from Vietnam. It remains to be seen what will happen in Iraq. The US is having trouble recruiting army personnel and I dare say that there will be great reluctance on the part of the Administration to institute a draft. Meanwhile anti-Iraq-war feeling is mounting and both the independent and mainstream media (as well as senior military personnel) seem to be agreeing that the mess is deepening in Iraq. Bush's popularity is declining and dissent is mounting in Republican ranks. So far, few people in government in the US have sons and daughters serving in Iraq. A draft would change that...and I suspect it would also change the somewhat tepid atmosphere in Congress to the whole affair.

4. False optimism to the last. "Failure" and "stalemate" in Vietnam was massaged into "phoney success" and "false cause for hope". Governments have to do this (lie) to rally the domestic populace as well as maintain military morale. However there comes a time, if defeat or failure is likely, when the truth overwhelms the "spin" (a relatively modern term – "deceit" is more accurate). I wonder if and when we will reach this point in Iraq?

5. The scale of losses. Losses by Australia and the US in Vietnam were substantial, but significantly greater than is presently the case in Iraq. Losses by South Vietnamese and North Vietnamese were much heavier than combined allied losses. It appears that losses amongst Iraqi civilians (both passive civilians and resistance forces) also are much greater than allied losses. Unlike Vietnam, where the allied tactics provoked widespread humanitarian outrage, no such outrage appears to have surfaced in widespread, organised form. Either things are "cleaner" in Iraq or they are better hidden.

6. Bravery and commitment of allied forces. In both Vietnam and Iraq, allied forces acquitted themselves with competence and bravery. Meanwhile, governments and some sectors of the community try to silence public dissent for the war by declaring it to be unpatriotic and "letting down our boys over there". However public dissent is directed at the government and the wisdom of its decision, not towards the engaged military personnel who, like all military professionals, are obliged to do the bidding of the government of the day…whether reasonable or not.

7. The end game. As mentioned, the end game in Vietnam sent a flood of refugees in all directions. It seems likely to me that a collapse of allied resolve in Iraq, followed by evacuation, will result in a repeat of Vietnam where "collaborators" are hunted down and slaughtered and those people who fear for their lives attempt to leave by any means available. Not a pretty prospect.

8. Ramifications? Guns and butter policy by the US in Vietnam lead to a prolonged period of inflation, depreciation of the US-dollar, the collapse of the "remnant" gold standard, and ushered in large increases in US-dollar prices of oil (and gold) as oil suppliers attempted to protect the "monetary exchange" value of their oil. What will happen if the US gives-up in Iraq? Already there is widespread unease about the value of the dollar, the US is relatively more indebted than it was in the 60s and 70s, oil was plentiful then and it is under tight supply constraints now, demand is growing more rapidly than ever (the China effect). I suspect that an allied collapse in Iraq would propel the price of oil (and gold) much, much higher: firstly because of an abrupt fall (loss of confidence) in the dollar and secondly because it would be immediately apparent that Iraq's petroleum resources/reserves would not be under the control of the "free world". Thus, a repeat of the 70s (rising oil prices, rising gold prices, double-digit inflation) might not be so unrealistic… The difference is that the rising price of oil would be unrelenting. So too, perhaps, the price of gold as the fate of the dollar is determined by world opinion on US indebtedness, widely-visible domestic energy shortages and falling production.

Just one man's reflections on a quiet Saturday night in Oz…


GoldiloxComparisons of Iraq to VN, and future scenarios#1334796/25/05; 10:09:41

@ Sundeck,

Very interesting and (IMHO) valid comparisons. This week a rather substantial group of Congressfolk held a multi-day marathon meeting on the ""Downing St. Memos and Faulty Intelligence" as it relates to the war. They were unable to get a proper meeting room from the Congrssional leaders, so they opened a basement storeroom and held it anyway. What a satement that makes!

There was a lot of meeting time broadcast on CSPAN, but virtually ZERO coverage by the mainsream "bought and sold media" - especially not King Ruppert. They were too busy telling and retelling the story of a lost Boy Scout in Minn.

Grass roots anti-war efforts are growing, even without a draft, as continually using untrained reservists in overseas adventures, whose main job is really local disaster relief - is wearing thin here at home, not unlike the attitude toward the draft in 1970.

The Florida hurricane disasters of 2004 were exascerbated by the absence of the Florida National Guard to assist the people in cleanup. Thus we had stories of Federal "carpetbaggers" hualing away bodies in refer meat trucks and not cooperating with locals. These have not been corroborated, but this is the kind of confusion we get when non-locals are imported to do the job absent local reservists were expected to do.

Any second round of disaster here without reservists to help their neighbors out will enrage a lot of folks!

Homeland Security Department is not trusted by most, as their only experience with them is grope-fests, language barriers, and authoritarian "attitudes" in airports and border-crossings, as this job seems to be a magnet for "brand new citizens" with poor English skills, Their English-speaking bosses stay in the back rooms and conduct "strip searches" and "interrogations", especially on foreign journalists.

I've noticed that EQ activity has settled down to normal levels almost overnight, as if none of the huge activity of two weeks ago even happened. If there is EM manipulation going on, and they can urn it on and off like a light switch, it won't be long until some "enterprising" black ops group sees another opportunity to build security fears back to a "fever pitch". The best time might be just prior to the 2006 elections.

The best "chance" for the individual is truly personal preparation, as erosion of power is looked upon as "insurgency" by the current PTB, and they will not go down without a bloody fight of some sort.

With all the "advances" in physics, EM engineering , etc. in the last century, we have seen no virtually public progress, as many non-government scientists have seen their work confiscated over the last decades, and top tier government scientists cannot reveal the slightest information, under penalty of blackball, or worse. Note the plethora of untimely microbiologist deaths in the last five years, right at the point where "Bird FLU" is spreading through Asia.

The billions that have been funneled through NASA, et al, have not delivered any public or commercial space program, but only bostered the ability to send covert weapons into space. The X-prize made fools of NASA for anyone that was watching, as a $20M private project showed more promise than the hundreds of bIllions we've dumped into the greedy coffers of the M-I complex bleeding NASA dry. The Rutan concept completely obsoletes current long range travel designs - 1/10th the fuel reqirements, and 10X speed capabilties using sub-orbital glide paths instead of brute force tropospheric jumbo jets, but FAA regs will stifle it and funnel it back to the loyalists at Boeing and Lockheed before any real progress can be seen. The public will be forced to plod along with 19th century "fuelish" technology.

OK, where have these funds gone, and what "research and development" did we really pay for? Has space been primed to manage RFID "total control" of the world's population, along with unmanned EM weaponry to deliver the "crowning touch"? Watch how TPTB tout the glories of RFID in the next few years. First to watch felons, then monitor our vulnerable children, then to watch everyone! Orwell and Bradbury were just a few years early!

As many have warned, major unsettling in "financial control" will unleash some other "control monsters" that make usury and random terrorism seem tame by comparison. "Security" has displaced freedom and intelligence. Those who prefer the latter will be looked upon very suspiciously. That is why Sinclair warns that $500 gold is good, but much higher numbers do not bode well for political reasons.

I do not see a benign, benevolent world government in our immediate future. Those who do are usually employed by same!

Goldilox"Buck Bubble"#1334806/25/05; 10:24:05

@ Topaz,

I think you've hit on something here. As long as the CPI, PPI, BLS and other pertinent statistics are succcessfully "massaged", we are likely to see strength in the US DX. Especially the DX itself, as it measures comparative value, not real value. The US Dollar can rise against other currencies in a bugger-thy-neighbor's currency environment, while "real" inflation is hidden in the commodity and RE "bulls".

This also plays into the hands of the tax entities, as paper gains funnel revenues back to the gubmint coffers, even when real gain is illusory.

I expect inflation to remain "covert" as long as TPTB can convince the majority that this is the case. They might even engineer some positive change in the twin deficits, by some smoke and mirrors trick, and place their heads in the tiger's mouth, but eventually, the tigers will munch down!

Naked Emperors seem to be "all the rage" during times of international stress.

White RoseA bad joke#1334816/25/05; 10:41:23

So I got a Jewish joke e-mailed to me from a rabbi (I know this is not offensive since I got it from a rabbi, right?

A man dies and his 3 best friends, Shlomo, Patrick and Peter are looking at his body in the coffin.
Patrick says, "He was such a good friend to me that I don't want him to go to his maker empty handed." He then throws $200 in $20 notes into the coffin.
Peter says, "I agree, so I'll match that," and he also throws $200 in notes into the coffin.
Shlomo says, "What cheap-skates you both are. I'm ashamed to know you. I'm going to give him $1,000."
Shlomo then writes out a check for $1,400, throws it in and takes the $400 in change out of the coffin.

So this this got me to thinking. Some of the biggest banks (City Bank and JP Morgan) are probably busted years ago, and function now as arms of the Federal Reserve. Working with these guys is like working with "Shlomo". Whatever the deal they do, they are the one scooping up all the cash and putting their check in the coffin.

Some day this scandal will be so bad, that even the dead will start cashing their checks. At that point, it will be a good idea to have a solid position in precious metals.

GoldiloxThe dead cashing checks - LOL#1334826/25/05; 10:55:25

@ White Rose,

. . . just like that brokerage commercial where a stop order is filled during the estate hearing.

"He was active in the markets, and apparently still is."

USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.FREE Gold Information Packet...#1334836/25/05; 13:17:24

GoldendomeYes, Sundeck--It appears a sequal in the making.#1334846/25/05; 13:48:26

Sundeck: Well thought out comparisons and contrasts on your part. I will not argue--only add.

Sundeck, you heard the first response to the election in Iran of the so-called "hardline" mayor of Tehran as their leader? The first utterance from the US State Dept. was to the effect, "This shows Iran is out of step with it's neighbors in the region, like Iraq and Afghanistan."

Yes! We are the experts to judge and critique every election held round the world-- and to pass judgements on the winners. So it will continue, either get in line with the rest of the undemocratic vassal states of the Middle East (Saudi,Kuwait, etc), carry the King's (U.S.) cape, accept our fiats, or face threats, intimidation, or worse!

Interesting isn't it, that the one country in the region that probably holds the freest and open election, now faces recrimination because the results were not to the U.S. liking. The results were over-whelming; so despite the usual protestations by the losers as to election fraud, it would seem difficult to make the case that fraud made any significant difference in this instance.

Do we read that Iran is the world's second largest oil exporting nation? If so, and if attacked over the nuclear issue--we could see oil at $100 a barrel over night when they close down their ports to shipment.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

mikalGold flickers to life#1334856/25/05; 14:46:57

Gold Rush May Mean Inflation Bust - Katie Benner - June 25, 2005
Excerpts: "The metal's recent jump worldwide and high oil prices signal serious inflation pressures ahead."

"Gold rising along with the dollar -- and with oil jumping to record highs near $60 a barrel -- may signal serious inflation woes ahead.
It's enough to give a gold bull deja vu."

TopazAg ...and EQ's#1334866/25/05; 15:57:41

As we approach the great Silver reckoning, it might be worth a look at LeaseRates and recent Comex activity as a primer to this next rollover (7-1-05)
Prior to the May delivery window, LR's (1Yr) were at 1%. You-all may recall a certain "stammering" which saw "odd" activity that time through (Butler for one commented on it).
The 1Yr rate peaked at 3% and has settled back to 2.4% currently.

During May and through June Ag LR's have increased (on average) 3 fold.

Is there Metal this time around to quell or contain a price spike? ...we'll know soon enough!

Yes G'lox, a time of calm has descended upon us. If the Lunar theory has legs and given the "trembling" we're STILL experiencing, I'd expect some "action" through June27-29 (waning through half to Black)

We watch!

TownCrierLatest 'Rocket School' update from special contributor von Braun...#1334876/25/05; 18:42:48

Unintended Consequences! Part 1

June 25th, 2005


In a recent article by Richard Duncan entitled "What's worrying the chairman?" the author raises the question as to whether the Fed has lost control over interest rates. Within the last two years a buying binge by the Bank of Japan has seen their holdings of US Treasuries rise by nearly 80% to a record level. In another article by the same author, entitled "How Japan financed global reflation", he discusses Japan's actual buying binge of US Treasuries.

Now Mr. Greenspan talks of a conundrum when it comes to the fact that as he is raising interest rates, albeit gradually, the interest rate of the 10 year bond continues to decline, recently falling below 4%.

It seems that the Fed's fear of deflation, resulting in a loosening of the money supply over the last few years, may be having several unintended consequences. Japan is of course the largest holder of T-bills, followed by the 'collective' Caribbean tax havens, then of course China.

As the trade deficit continues to rise both Japan and China, along with other Asian countries, continue to accumulate US dollars; ... they therefore buy more and more of the interest-paying T-bills, pushing down the yield.

...The world is awash with paper currencies and the main players all have a vested interest in keeping the game going and going and going. We, the participants, are now in uncharted waters, since never before has the economic activity on this planet been so dependent upon one currency, backed by nothing other than a willingness of the participants to hold it, forsaking redemption.

...With a rising inflation rate and a low return on cash deposits, money as such is not showing an attractive return. On the contrary, it's losing purchasing power, what little it has left, and as such will soon be seen for the very real problem that it is.

..The majority of paper currencies are starting to look like they are at best, an instrument that may be nearing the user date. The interconnectedness of Central Banks -- by virtue of the reserves they hold and need to continue to accumulate more and more of these irredeemable reserves, while providing the US consumer with a vast selection of widgets, gadgets and gizmo's, as well as providing them with the money to buy them -- is astounding. Free money it may not be but it is as close as it gets!

...the main argument against owning gold -- which is that it does not earn interest -- has just been completely demolished!

Now it's a case of neither does anything else earn enough interest to offset the risk of owning it...

The smart money will eventually figure this out. Demand for gold in the form of actual metal, as opposed to paper contracts, will increase as the Greenspan conundrum becomes more clearly understood by market participants.

^-----(see url for full commentary)-----^

Thanks again to the 'professor' for e-mailing in his latest. Archives are also available at the url.


The Invisible HandChina says no to yuan revaluation #1334886/25/05; 23:34:37

Once again, China's government is making it clear it will not be pushed into revaluing its currency.

The Invisible HandFound on Drudge#1334896/25/05; 23:45:49

June 26, 2005
With Bid for Unocal, U.S. Struggles on China Policies

"We have so much on the plate with China," said an adviser to Mr. Bush, who would speak only on the condition of anonymity because the president discourages unauthorized discussions about internal deliberations. "How do you come down hard on them for this deal?"
Remember, to the Chinese everything is related: the economics, the diplomacy, the military posture. It's all one," said a senior administration official, who declined to speak on the record because of the sensitivity of the diplomacy.
But there are other strategic reasons to keep the relationship on an even keel. The financial stability of the United States, with its chronic budget deficits and propensity to spend far more than its saves, depends increasingly on the willingness of China to buy American government bonds. Any breach in relations could lead to higher interest rates.

SundeckSundry comments#1334906/26/05; 04:11:27


Yes, Iran must present the Administration with a real quandry.

Personally, I don't see why nations, such as the US or the UK or Russia or whoever, cannot just accept the status quo in other countries and work with it or around it as best they can. Attempting a revolution overnight, as it were, that is supposed to change a generation's mindset, is ridiculous. Look at the history of the UK, for example. It did not become a unified democracy without many centuries of conflict, invasion, insurgency, rebellion, bigotry, nationalistic arrogance, religious inertia and what have you. (Some may say that it is still not united!!) (wry smile)

Perhaps the Administration should just leave it up to "business" to find a is far less worried about a person's (or a nation's) peculiarities and far more interested in finding win-win situations within the status quo.


I didn't realise that the reservists played such a supportive role in the US during times of environmental mayhem.

Also, I too worry about the **implementation** of homeland-security-type legislation. Inevitably, some petty bureaucrats are entrusted to enact the legislation who have no idea of the wider agenda and just "follow rules" as they see them...blindly empowered by the imperative of the times. This can result in some very in-your-face unpleasant interactions for completely innocent people who find themselves compromised in some unanticipated way at check-points.


Dollar Bill.,.#1334916/26/05; 05:35:59

MK, I saw on the forum that Blair discussed joining the euro, (details, I didnt see), are we seeing a settleing down into what you said below?
"Europe [would] become a nation state with a national currency instead of loose confederation issuing what amounts to sophisticated bank scrip."

Do you think the yaun controllers are right when they say that some of this g8 pressure to change thier currency is political? Meaning, I would guess, that the complaints by some govts is just on the surface, and underneath, they are for a continued fixed exchange at this time.

Is the long bond the one that controls the houseing market?
seems like an elementary question to ask, but, apparently I do not know.
If so, is the -manipulation- of the long bond down, while at the same time greenspan is rising interest rates.......the impact...what is the goal? OK, the long bond would be to support the houseing bubble, and business and financial players, ...the rising rates....could you help me see what the heck that is about and its impacts?

Is it a way to break the old pattern? In the nwoland, the dollar can do all manner of new things and get away with used to be, I believe I read, that interest rate rises, at some point, lead to a stock recession, where 80 percent of stocks delcline.
Where the us govt previously would have concerns about interest rate rises because debt payments increase.. now that is not an issue because we are already in nwoland?

I just drove from Conn to williamsburg virginia. Flying is smarter unless you have reasons to drive. However, what I saw, was that those record breaking auto sales of the last 6 years or so have really had an impact on the roadways.
The interstate highway system in that part of the country is jammed.
The head of the saudi royal family keeps coming to see Pres. Bush. I would love to hear the meeting. What is in it for the saudi king?

ToolieSimulated oil meltdown shows U.S. economy's vulnerability#1334926/26/05; 07:48:53

Snip: WASHINGTON _ Former CIA Director Robert Gates sighs deeply as he pores over reports of growing unrest in Nigeria. Many Americans can't find the African nation on a map, but Gates knows that it's America's fifth-largest oil supplier and one that provides the light, sweet crude that U.S. refiners prefer.
It's 11 days before Christmas 2005, and the turmoil is preventing about 600,000 barrels of oil per day from reaching the world oil market, which was already drum-tight. Gates, functioning as the top national security adviser to the president, convenes the Cabinet to discuss the implications of Nigeria's spreading religious and ethnic unrest for America's economy.
Fast-forward to Jan. 19, 2006. A blast rips through Saudi Arabia's Haradh natural-gas plant. Simultaneously, al Qaida terrorists seize a tanker at Alaska's Port of Valdez and crash it, igniting a massive fire that sweeps across oil terminals. Crude oil spikes to $120 a barrel, and the U.S. economy reels. Gasoline prices hit $4.74 a gallon.
Fast-forward again, to June 23, 2006. Emboldened Saudi insurgents attack foreign oil workers, killing hundreds. A mass evacuation follows from the world's pivotal oil producer, the one country that could be counted on to boost production during shortages in global supplies.
"It was striking that by taking such small amounts off the market, you could have such dramatic impact" on world oil prices, said Robbie Diamond, the president of Securing America's Future Energy.
Richard Haass was a top adviser to former Secretary of State Colin Powell until 2003. The simulation taught him how little influence policy-makers would have in reversing an oil shock wave.
"I think where most of the work has to happen now, both intellectually and politically, is on demand" reduction, Haass said. (end article)

The article above was apparently yanked from Yahoo. Fortunately, we can count on the Middle East to accommodate our free speech "rights". Even talk of such things can be dangerous.

With such studies such as this in the hands of our central planners, it's easy to see the Union 76 deal being disallowed. The message to China will likely be; keep making our widgets, buying our bonds and negotiating with N. Korea. Other than that, buzz-off.

Dollar Bill, May I take a crack at one of your questions for MK?

>>Do you think the yaun controllers are right when they say that some of this g8 pressure to change thier currency is political? Meaning, I would guess, that the complaints by some govts is just on the surface, and underneath, they are for a continued fixed exchange at this time.<<

I think that the reason that we see the US pressuring for a Yuan revaluation is because they want to throw our congress a bone. Congress doesn't have the votes to pass CAFTA. A Yuan revaluation will make it appear as if there is hope for domestic producers – easing pressure on congress.

Counter-intuitively, I expect that any upward Yuan revaluation will have a negative impact on the trade deficit. It would simply make imported goods more expensive. There is little chance of production increasing here while wages in China are 1/10 of US wages and, wages in India for engineering are about 30% of US wages.

Cheers all.

GoldiloxRevolutions#1334936/26/05; 09:35:39

@ Sundeck,

"Revolutions", or regime change, as they are currently called, are promoted as a complete change for the poor people who bleed and die in them. The top dogs, the ones who never get closer to the war than a map table, look at them more as "management shuffle".

That's why, all too often, the deposed end up in some other country living off tons of booty.

Remember Marcos, the despot who pocketed huge sums of Filipino contract money from the Air Force? No one in the Air Force was gonna blow the whistle and implicate themselves, so he and his shoe-addict wife left the country with a "King's ransom", so to speak.

Even the Nazis, who paid the price of about 12 hangings at Nuremberg, found elite jobs awaiting them in the OSS and AEC for those who bargained with their "intelligence" and "knowledge" assets.

Until Noriega, from whom no one has heard in a long time, despots were mostly allowed to abscond with all they could carry like the winner in a game show. No one talks about Noriega's fate (or his inside knowledge), as he is under permanent "house arrest" without the annoyance of a "public trial". I suspect he is living quite comfortably, compared to the minions held in Guantanamo Bay.

Saddam Hussein seems headed for a similar fate as they stall and delay any potential "public justice".

Wars only accomplish two things in most cases.

1) Excess labor force is annihilated.
2) Old infrastructure is demolished to make way for new.

Aside fom that, it is business as usual - same control system, different crooks.

canamamiUS Relations with China and the World#1334946/26/05; 09:46:32

The Chinese would change their tune on the yuan post-haste if a the US threatened a 100% tariff on all Chinese goods, and simultaneously let it be known sotto voce that "illegal arms traders" may be on the cusp of delivering nukes + delivery systems to Taiwan.

I hate what has been done to gold investors (myself among them), but one must also not lapse into defending tyrannical regimes and belief systems against what Reagan rightly called "mankind's last, best hope". In resisting tyrannies and evil belief systems, it's time for the US to stop fighting with its hands tied behind its back.

CaradocAnarchists prepare for G8 summit#1334956/26/05; 10:16:50

Snips from today's Scotsman:

...preparations for the July 6-8 summit at Gleneagles include a series of training camps being held this weekend to teach activists how to break into the Faslane naval base on the Clyde, in a protest timed for Monday, July 4. They will be taught fence-cutting techniques, how to climb over razor wire and how to avoid being injured by guard dogs. Meanwhile, 'factories' have been set up in Edinburgh and Glasgow to manufacture 'lock-on tubes' - devices which protesters wear on their arms to hinder police attempts to clear them from road blockades.

...a major tactic will be to block roads leading from Edinburgh, Glasgow, Dundee and Perth to Gleneagles to prevent administrative staff from reaching the hotels where world leaders and their aides will be staying. Crucial sites for road closure have already been scouted, down to the specific road sign poles that will be used to link chained demonstrators.

Chris PowellJapan would diversify out of the dollar ... if it only could#1334966/26/05; 10:44:14

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mikalHeadline Roundup#1334976/26/05; 10:54:46

CNNfnBonds: Boom or bust? Sun Jun 26, 2005
Bloomberg- U.S. Manufacturing Growth Held Near Two-Year Low in June, Report May Show Sun Jun 26, 2005
Seattle (WA) Times- Summer dilemma: cash or experience? Sun Jun 26, 2005 [Option 3- Learn a foreign language]
Los Angeles (CA) Times-Business- W.Va. Rejects $5.5B Pension Bond Proposal Sun Jun 26, 2005 [What's the problem, not big enough?]
Los Angeles (CA) Times-Business- Market Awaits Quarter's End, Fed Statement Sat Jun 25, 2005 [Breathless in anticipation!]
CNNfn- House votes to block United from default on pensions Sat Jun 25, 2005 [After all the muckraking, will they bend?]
Bloomberg- U.S. Stocks Post Biggest Weekly Loss in Two Months on $60-a-Barrel Oil Sat Jun 25, 2005 [What will the terrorists think of next?]
CBS Marketwatch- Wal-Mart sticks to sales forecast Sat Jun 25, 2005 [Why I was just headed there! GOOO Team!]
CBS Marketwatch- Stocks to Watch: Nike, Walgreen, Paychex and more Sat Jun 25, 2005 [The economy is healthy and vibrant! Watch the stocks, keep your eye on the stocks...]
CNNfn- Lawmakers seek tough review of Chinese Unocal bid Sat Jun 25, 2005 ["Tough" lawmakers? Why not start by fixing the laws you broke?]
CNNfn- Morgan Stanley eyes bringing back ex-CEO Sat Jun 25, 2005 [The sound of musical chairs]
MSNBC- OPEC chief starts talks on output increase Sat Jun 25, 2005 [The "good Arabs" play up their role in contrast to the OPEC troublemakers and bullies]
MSNBC- Wall Street on economy watch after rough week Sat Jun 25, 2005 [Watch the bouncing ball, keep your eye on the ball...]
MSNBC- Indian tribes move beyond casinos, gaming Sat Jun 25, 2005 [Indians "moving" again... into another entertainment business]

USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.Gold ownership with the click of a mouse...#1334986/26/05; 11:32:04">gold -- a global calling card
YGMcanamami (6/26/05; 09:46:32MT - msg#: 133494)#1334996/26/05; 11:40:43

The talk by US on Yuan revluation is all posturing in my opinion (and most others). A higher Yuan or trade tariffs does nothing but export inflation to US shores. China can get along quite fine on it's internal growth engine and it's exports to the rest of the world, primarily Asia itself. Nobody is going to start talks of Nukes. China is too big nowadays to threaten and all the parties know it. The more pressure Congress puts on China the more they'll resist. Quite obviously when the tariffs became to great the Chinese would just dump dollars. No need for Nuke talk. (at least from where they stand) A full blown Fiat war will suffice for a start. Then we all know who will talk military action in some form or another. If China decided to spend it's chest of dollars on Gold, where would the Fed be? Kaput sooner than the inevitable later....
The Invisible HandDollar Bill and Caradoc #1335006/26/05; 11:52:52

Dollar Bill,
the link on Britain joining the euro
"Politically the case for (Britain joining the Euro) is very strong," but not in economic terms, Blair told a news conference at the European Parliament. "We should keep the position open," he added. Blair's government wants to join the Euro in principle, but has set five economic tests for membership: sustainable convergence between Britain and the Euro economies; flexibility to cope with economic change; impact on investment; impact on jobs; and the impact on Britain's financial services industry. British opinion polls have long detected heavy public opposition to the common currency.

Not all lunatic idealists are anarchists.
Not all anarchists are violent.
Some non-violent lunatic idealist anarchists, like myself, have a strong anti-government protest experience (and have even been jailed for that in 1990 when we (me and my pal) were protesting the Gatt, now WTO, in 1990 in Brussels and the pamphlets where stolen by the police from my car). On Another earlier occasion, when I was alone protesting against the EU, the police stole my banner – "Abolish the CAP" (Common Agricultural Police, euh, Policy) or something like that – by the way, continues today in its business pages the campaign against the CAP – the max came when I was allowed on December 31, 1998 to hand my "Stop Euro"-pamphlet to Wim Duisenberg – leaving the governor of Belgian national bank (he had been video-conferencing at the Belgian National Bank with the euro central bankers) to meet the euro finance ministers in the EU headquarters - two weeks later, I discovered this Round-Table)


So who's milking it?,6903,1514504,00.html
It's sold as a policy to help small farmers - but it's the agribusinesses that benefit most, reports Nick Mathiason.
Digby Jones: Off with the CAP and on with the new Europe,6903,1514505,00.html

Danish MPs get millions in farm subsidy
Four Danish cabinet ministers, several of its MPs and even the country's EU commissioner receive payments under the Common Agricultural Policy running into millions of pounds.,6903,1514531,00.html

TownCrierA bit of reverse psychology?#1335026/26/05; 11:57:41

If the U.S. administration is using every last trick to maintain the present dollar-reserve structure of the international monetary system, is it possible that the pressure being applied to China is a calculated ruse intended to strengthen China's political resolve NOT to deviate from present structures so as not to appear bowing to American pressure?

And all played for public consumption, of course.

Step aside. Choose gold.


canamamiReply to YGM#1335036/26/05; 12:13:43

There's a great deal of truth to what you say.

However, I do think you underestimate the US' role a consumer to the world, and to China. China's society and economy is also wildly imbalanced, and prone to a major internal upheaval. Long-term, assuming the world doesn't explode, India is probably the power to watch, though China is still important. Moreover, a destroyed $US also destroys the savings of the holders, of which China is the biggest. Further, there can be no default on sovereign US debt, as it is dollar-denominated and all the FED has to do is print more money. There'll be inflation, etc., and massive disruption, but America will bounce back eventually, barring the destruction of the world.

Re China's strength: Yes, China is very strong, and the US should have risked war (even nuclear war) 10 years ago to stop both China and the Islamic extremists in their tracks. That being said, China keeps getting stronger and stronger, so its better to act now than to wait. In any event, why shouldn't the Taiwanese have the bomb? Better that the choice be between Taipei v. Beijing, Guangzhou, Shanghai, etc., than be between LA, NY, Chicago v. Red China. Let the "better dead than Red" choice rest with the Taiwanese rather than a US commitment to defend Taiwan (though the US can't very well abandon Taiwan, without losing all credibility).

I guess I've come to an apocalyptic world-view. Nukes will fly no matter what happens. Therefore: Better that the US dictate terms now, while it can inflict more harm on its opponents than they can inflict on the US. China could cripple the US, but the US could exterminate the Chinese as well as any other group of crazed crackpots with dreams of imposing their belief system on the relatively free peoples.

Too bad the US didn't try to impose a Pax Americana on the world a decade ago; it wouldn't have been perfect, but at least the world would have been less likely to have blown itself up. Now, a nightmare is unavoidable; it's just the outlines of the nightmare which are left to be determined.

YGMThe Pirate Who Inspired Bankers.#1335046/26/05; 12:13:45,3604,1514317,00.html

Very real & revealing portrayal of what harm has been done to 3rd world countries by exploitation of resources and borrowing from Banksters. This is Equador, but applies around the world identically.
mackattackHave you found those WMD's yet?#1335056/26/05; 12:52:02

All this re value the yuan is clap trap.Big corps dont want it as it would mean higher wages paid out,which means less profit.They are busy setting up in china to take advantage of the cheap labour and lenient environmental policies.They tewll us we need to make less,then close down and move to a place where they can pollute all they want,pay workers no benefits and a dog's wage.Everyone knows revaluing the yuan will do very little to lower a budget that is sprialling out of control while draining all of america's future resources through debt and i.o.u's.But instead everyone focuses on the new scapegoat,its all China's fault.America does not have its hands tied behind its back,aka Iraq and WMD.They are busy kicking ass all over,China is merely playing diplomatic poker to delay the inevitable or forestall something really bad.Has anyone ever considered what the impact of 40 percent higher goods will mean to the now highly indebted barely getting by middle class?Along with higher gas/fuel,it will wipe them out just as the tsunami of inflation hits.You feel bad for goldbugs?I feel bad for those who dont own any!
MKDollar Bill, All. . . .#1335086/26/05; 14:58:03

Saw a number of errors in that hastily drawn up post. I'm going to develop some of those ideas and present them in a future Market Update.

My apologies.

Dollar Bill.,.#1335096/26/05; 16:26:21

Sundeck, there are so many good posts here and I am tempted to respond to quite a few. I was in Busch Gardens resort this week, and being a very militaried part of the country, the resort was ablaze with patriotic message.

I suspect your media might be like the US, you can let me know. Here, there is a faction, a faction that can hardly be said to be just -one faction- but, I will do it for simplicity. There are many among us who are, well, reformer types. They come in many styles, but I classify them as reformer faction. In american universities, there are many reformist types that are teachers. They try in many and varied ways to make students into the type of thinkers that the reformist teachers are. Oh, they claim they are just exposeing students to larger thinking, but, that -varied- thinking is quite narrow.
While claiming diversity, if you are not in the factional thinking, you will find yourself not getting the tenured position, or in more cases than they will admit, a high grade.
This faction produces journalism students that are quite similar. Let me insert here, that factions have a nasty tendency to view the lie as a worthy tool in getting results they want when they view the general citizenry as ...bound by outdated, harmful, heritage thinking that is just the result of cultural, religious, family thinking that the reformers are trying to change.

I view the media as haveing, at present, an invasion of this type of character. The political world is also littered with these guys, and girls, and thier foundational rock that thier views are based on, are not the same as many of those that they are trying to convert.
I read posts here, that are reflective of the reformer crowds work. But, you know, I guess the decision was made a long time ago, that us humans are much more interesting lost in a fog rather than all standing around repeating the obvious.
I do think it is time for someone to take a stand on one crucial spot, and say some essential things. Maybe this year?

Dollar Bill.,.#1335106/26/05; 16:35:44

MK, Didnt see that post, it is hard to imagine an MK post with "errors". But, I guess your wife is not the only one that gets to see your "errors" today. Speaking of errors, I wonder if Buffett got a beating due to the French vote. He was playing the currency markets with some unimaginable amount of money.
More than 20 billion I believe.

Great Albino BatDollar Bill: Ah, yes! You are talking about the MELIORISTS.#1335116/26/05; 18:10:24

The Meliorists - the "improvers".

The US began to be afflicted by these people back in the late 19th Century. Dr. Clarence Carson did the intellectual dissection of these people, in "The Flight from Reality" back in the 60's.

The first notable appearance in the US, of one of the blessed "improvers" of the human race, was Bellamy, who wrote a book that became a big hit and started a kind of cult: "Looking Backward".

It's about a man who goes to sleep in 1880 and wakes up in the US of 2000. What he finds is that all problems have been solved for the human race. No more unemployment, no more sick people with no means of support, no more poor people, no more high prices, everyone is well-educated, no more crime, everyone has a nice home, etc. - everything is perfectly managed and controlled and all the problems of existence have been solved by - superior direction.

With Bellamy we have perhaps the first "improver" in the US who was not satisfied with the Constitution and Bill of Rights, nor with sound money and low tax rates which the US had. No! He wanted to IMPROVE THINGS and with him, began the curse of the "improvers" which are so prevalent today in the US.

Lord, save us from the "improvers"!


White RoseA key Presidential Address#1335126/26/05; 18:21:54

Here is a news story:

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Bush will deliver a major address to U.S. troops and the nation about Iraq on Tuesday night from the U.S. military base at Fort Bragg, NorthCarolina, the White House said.

"This is a critical moment in Iraq," White House spokesman Scott McClellan said on Friday in announcing the speech. "This is a real time of testing."

McClellan said the speech would be delivered at 8 p.m., and that the White House has asked U.S. television networks to air the address live.

Bush is expected to use the prime time speech to outline his strategy in Iraq amid increasing public doubts about the war.


A presidential address from a military base at a time when there is no good news from Iraq.

What are the chances that Bush will announce that Israel has attacked Iran, and because of the causualties Israel has received, the US must attack Iran to defend Israel. We just happen to have US troops in about every nation surrounding Iran. The newly trained Iraqi troops may not be very useful against Iraqi insurgents, but they may make excellent cannnon fodder against the Iranian army.

Right now, I suspect that they are preparing 3-4 different speeches for Bush. Only hours before 8pm will they know which one to use.

I predict that if the war card is to be played, it will be dealt at 6:15 PM eastern time. That is 15 minutes before the network news, and it is the point of maximum confusion for them. It is also in the middle of the night in the middle east, an excellent time to take down air defenses with stealth technology.

It is the technological imperative "because we are capable of doing it, we must do it" mixed up with the kindergarden imperative "because you have it, I must take it away from you" (here we are talking about world oil resources instead of a set of Pokemon cards).

No one but the Neo-cons and the hard right leadership in Israel knows exactly what will happen. No one knows how it will all play out.

My worst fear is that the world in running out of time to get things into balance. Once the dogs of war are let go, no one knows where they will go. On Sept 1, 1939, Germany started a war of aggression. It ended with Berlin and all the German cities in rubble and ashes. The top leadership found themselves with nooses around their necks.

I could go one, but I have made my point. I hope I am just jumping to conclusions and being overly dramatic.

GoldiloxBuffett beating?#1335136/26/05; 18:27:08

@ $Bill.

from the typical day-trader mentality, I suppose Warren took a "beating" of a few million or so. We've all been so conditioned to think of the "daily score" and certainly no farther than the end of the quarter.

Buffet has often been ridiculed for his longer-term, value approach to investing, but the longer-term has been berry, berry good to him.

If he was sitting on all June options, he was probably creamed, but somehow I suspect he is not playing the short-term derivative game, and will once again have the last laugh.

Liberty HeadBogus through and through#1335146/26/05; 18:31:46

The dollar is as sound as any promise from a pathological liar can be. What could be more bogus than a government promise?
On the bogusometer the US gov't is surely off the scale.

"In God We Trust", Ha ha ha ha. What a joke!
If the USA were to have an honest currency the motto would be "If your going to be stupid, you have to be tough". I hallucinate though, no such truth will be found on a gov't creation.

It's sundown at Disneyland folks. Soon there will be a massive pyrotechnic display. That's the way U.S. fantasies come to a close, with a blaze of glory. Then it's back to the ghetto to await the credit statement.

Stay out of debt, don't sell your babies to the gov't, own gold.

Best Wishes

PRITCHO@ CANAMAMI - - - AND A BEAT EM UP MENTALITY !#1335156/26/05; 18:42:41

I cannot ignore outlandish & racist comments as expressed in your earlier posts.There are other right wing, radical
web sites where your thoughts might be welcome ,however I really don't enjoy reading such thoughts here.

What arrant nonsense to suggest the USA impose a 100% tariff on China --AND deliver "nukes" to Taiwan. Ha Ha

It's obvious you haven't got past watching Fox News as your only source of information - OR more dangerous- you DELIBERATELY choose to ignore what's really happening in the world. Probably both!

It's a pity that a couple here may agree with the gist of your insane ramblings- - but I'm sure that the majority are appalled at your utterances.

GoldiloxTenure and Tradition#1335166/26/05; 19:21:37

@ $ bill,

Your quote, "While claiming diversity, if you are not in the factional thinking, you will find yourself not getting the tenured position, or in more cases than they will admit, a high grade."

I wonder if this is why anyone who suggests we question the axioms of the physics realm or traditional astronomy theory or outdated meteorological concepts gets bumped from Grad school?

So often we hear people talk about "brainwashing" in Universities by those who suggest looking at more than one way of thinking, but perhaps the real brainwashing is from those who refuse to question.

How can one possibly advance science, economics, sociology, or even theology without questioning the dogmatic spoonfeeding of the comfortable?

Galileo was fed to the inquisition for his crazy ideas that the Sun was the center of the Solar system.

Tesla was blackballed from further funding and ripped off by Westinghouse when he announced that direct solar energy extraction might obsolete his own Niagara Falls power plant and the soon to be pervasive grid system.

Einstein, condsidered a genius today, was not successful in the rigid university environment of his day.

In today's world, we have McCanney, Hutchison, and many "alternate" scientists who are barred from publicly funded research data, blackballed for their "radical" theories and test results, and often "ghosted" by those who would steal their advances and hide them away in the name of "national security".

For me, the bottom line is that creative thinkers are often derided for daring to be wrong, and still being willing to continue on. Those who oppose them so vehemently are usually the "made men", who, resting on the laurels of a PhD or political success, are no longer adding to the creative efforts, and are desperately afraid of being deposed.

In the economic world, we are undergoing a questioning of the traditional system of credit (debt) financing. While not much is likely to change as long as the same banksters pull the strings, the shifting sands under their foundation is one of the reasons we congregate at this fine forum.

My great admiration of the fine people who frequent this forum is the ability to disagree on issues of great import and still keep the discussion going without derision. I wish that freedom was more pervasive in the universities, but I think it also comes from "maturity" (a synonym for AGE).

MKDollar Bill. . .#1335176/26/05; 19:44:31

Let me give you the short answers.

First, the workable solution to the monetary problem translates to a vindication of gold ownership. There is no escaping it for both nation states and individuals. This will become apparent as time passes.

Second, the Fed has lost control of U.S. monetary policy. The bond overhang means that money floods into the country and washes out the Fed's attempt to raise interest rates. I predicted this in "The ABCs of Gold Investing." It is not difficult to understand why Alan Greenspan is disturbed by the process. The market is dictating where this thing is going. Governments’ economic plans are being waylayed by the free market. This is true throughout the G-8 and political and economic leaders haven't figured out yet how to react to it.

Third, American continues to borrow against the bubble to create a bigger bubble. This is the definition of inflating away the debt. America, as a nation, hopes to benefit from the inflation process just like the average indebted consumer.

Fourth, Japan and China will vie in their efforts to rid themselves of excess dollar deposits. This benefits the debtor. Creditors will suffer.

Fifth, the Chinese bid for Unocal offers an interesting sidebar and a situation worth understanding in as much as this may be the template to the future. What better way to recycle dollar fiat than to acquire hard western assets including oil companies, gold miners (?) -- and resource companies and business infrastructure in general. What price is too high to pay when you have banks and government coffers splitting at the seams with dollar reserves? If the Chinese are closed out on this, I would suspect a severe reaction at some point down the road.

Sixth, Tony Blair is now president of the European Commission. He will toss the occasional bone across the channel and euro positive rhetoric is part and parcel of that. Britain will not go to the euro. It's interests lie with the United States and the rest of the old British empire -- still the most formidable grouping on the planet.

Seventh, Europe's interests lie with Russia and its vast natural resources. Look for Russia and Europe to move inexorably closer. We are not in a period of synergy worldwide, but a period of dissolution with Europe's rapid descent symptomatic of the larger trend. For Europe to move forward it must constitute itself politically, forge a resources treaty with Russia, and sell itself to the wider world. It is still possible for Europe and the euro to move forward but enlightened leadership is required.

Eighth, rising oil and commodities will play a bigger role in the big picture at this juncture than interest rates for reasons discussed above. When Wall Street wakes up to what China and Japan are attempting with their huge dollar reserves, we might see an explosion in the commodities markets, including gold. Main Street is already aware. We will continue to see commodities, gold, goods and services -- not competing currencies -- the most direct beneficiary of the recent shift in worldwide sentiment.

mikalGold not really a "commodity"#1335186/26/05; 19:56:21

Gold Breaks Out But the Best is to Come - John Dizard - June 26, 2005

A BOOK well worth the reading ----

Hegemony: (n.) dominance exercised by one state over others

From the world's foremost intellectual activist, an irrefutable analysis of America's pursuit of total world domination and the catastrophic consequences that will follow.

For over half a century, the United States has been pursuing a 'grand imperial strategy' with the aim of staking out the globe. Its leaders have shown themselves willing to follow the dream of dominance right up to the edge of extinction. Now the Bush administration is intensifying this process, driving towards the final frontiers of imperial control, towards a choice between the prerogatives of power and a livable Earth.

In Hegemony or Survival, published in Australia in December 2003, Noam Chomsky investigates how we came to this moment, what kind of peril we find ourselves in, and why America's rulers are willing to jeopardise the future of our species.

With the striking logic that is his trademark, Chomsky dissects America's quest for global supremacy, tracking the US government's aggressive pursuit of policies intended to achieve 'full spectrum dominance' at any cost. He vividly lays out how the most recent manifestations of global politics-from unilateralism and the dismantling of international agreements to state terrorism and the militarisation of space-unite in a drive for hegemony that ultimately threatens our survival. In our era, he argues, empire is a recipe for an earthly wasteland.
Lucid, rigorous and thoroughly documented, Hegemony or Survival is Chomsky's most urgent and sweeping work in years, certain to spark widespread debate.

"Judged in terms of the power, range, novelty and influence of his thought, Noam Chomsky is arguably the most important intellectual alive."
- The New York Times

"For anyone wanting to find out more about the world we live in...there is one simple answer: read Noam Chomsky."
- The New Statesman

Cavan ManMK Analysys#1335206/26/05; 21:12:01

This is one smart guy from State College. Good luck and remember.....prota O Theos....CM
SundeckMore sundry comments...#1335216/26/05; 21:46:37

@Dollar Bill

I am almost certainly not the best person to provide you with an accurate critique of the qualities that pervade the Australian media, or the "schools" (universities plus on-the-job) from which media-professionals emerge.

Undoubtedly there are fads in the media. Also, undoubtedly, there are many "special interest groups", SIGs, who seek to tilt the tables one way or another so as to get Reality to roll into the pocket of their choice... Some of these SIGs reside in the formal media schools, some reside in the editorial boards of the various commercial media, some reside in socio/politico bodies and institutes, such as privately-funded think-tanks, and still others are associated with church groups, environmental lobby groups, employer groups and employee union groups...really, the list is long indeed, if not endless.

Reformers? Well, the world would be a sorry place without some and a better place without others. But this subject is really too vast for me to address in a forum such as this, without making myself very unwelcome. I will say, however, that it is very difficult to be a dispassionate reporter in today's world, where in order to sell something (like "the news"), it seems necessary to present it in a sensational light whilst surrounded by the trappings of conventionality (if that is not too much of a contradiction). In this mould, trivial things get elevated in the public perception while truly great things get swept to oblivion.

@White Rose

I symphathise with your uneasiness... The US appears to have painted itself into a corner in Iraq and they have two choices...keep painting or make a very conspicuous exit. Like in Vietnam, pride and pig-headedness may have further to run before the humble pie comes out of the oven...let's hope the world community takes a stronger role in engineering a face-saving solution for all...

@Dollar Bill

Buffett has been short the dollar, or at least long five other currencies, for several years...he is well ahead on his "currency speculation" over that time.

@TC et al.

I doubt that reverse psychology is being applied to China. I feel that China is genuine in wishing to loosen the yuans ties, but they genuinely have to move cautiously to ensure their financial system is prepared. This has been acknowledged over the last year or two by significant financial figures in several countries, not all of which are aligned with the US. I do sense however that Greenspan and Snow and the Administration are flying blind by the seat of their pants into an unknown future and they feel that China is probably the major obstacle in their path, so they are seeking to make a big deal of China's apparent "intransigence" for domestic leverage. Why not? Hell, if you don't know where you are going, any path will get you there...


Dollar Bill.,.#1335226/26/05; 22:08:25

Pritcho, Chomsky assumes there is no other more accurate view than the one he bases his thinking on.
Because his economic understanding is too limited, he sees control where there is agreement, he misunderstands the disagreements, doesnt see the big picture, doesnt understand the virtual impossibility of attaining globalist fiat system that is close to implimented, assumes the saudis are idiots and just havent read his book, assumes the Japanese are in some sleepy state that is just waiting his book to wake them up, assumes the real dealings of real men could be done in some sanitized way because he is part of the faction that thinks man is perfectable.
If only, yup, if only we were, well, the way WE want to be.
But, we aint.
As much as I am for local economy and some system that supports that, the numbers of people, the limitations of fiat, the unpredictable nature of human behaviour, the predictable nature of human behaviour, the realities of what is, the difficulties and frankly, the limited options presented because you can only work with what is in front of you and you can only work as circumstance allows, and most of all, you can only proceed as the lord helps you make way.
How would Chomsky have dealt with the taliban? How would he deal with any tyrant? Some appeal to some vision of his?
To me, he is the faulty basis, the faulty basis that that reformer faction is based on. The basis that is leading more and more media and political reformers to say and do things that threaten the lives of American Heros, actual heros, who in trying to defend freedom, oppose those that are trying to impose thier tyranny impulses on the rest of us.
The facts are, that Chomsky has no ideas on how to improve the lives of desperately poor people all over the world, and how to make a world currency that does as much as possible to help the maximum amount of people.
He has no ideas on how to make fiat work on a global basis with no underpinnings. I suppose guys like MK and the guys on the forum should just put thier brains aside and dismiss the complexities as unneeded.
By mislabeling George Bush, by misunderstanding US actions, he paints a dark false picture and incites who knows who, to take actions, actions that are based on a false foundation.
How possibly, can we move to a new world order? Financially, the central banks are already there I believe, but just recently, how can you move a complex, fragile, unimaginably complex network of financial agreements, to a system basically floating on air?
How would chomsky suggest we do it?
The choice is not empire, why does he think Russia gave up the rest of the soviet union? It is a pain in the butt to deal with vast amounts of people and their needs and desires. Chomsky has that unenlightened "enlightenment" dogma drilled into his head by the "faction" that I was referring to......those that think we can self perfect.
We cannot do the bee or ant thing. Nice idea, wrong species.
It is a dog eat dog world, and we are impossibly lucky to have the feature of self interest lead us to the result that chomsky can sell a book and buy global products cheap for his indulgent pleasure.
Pritcho, I do appreciate you posting the post, I was wondering what was underpinning the logics of those in media and politics whose behaviour I could only describe as traitorous.
Now I see, he has incited them to view all actions through the dark prism of empire.
The attempt to build the impossible, a global fiat, and get there without some tyrant forcing it like a Mao, to get there by agreements, is complex, and necessarily secret.
chomsky is a destructive NON HERO.

PRITCHO@$BILL - - - AND A "REAL" AMERICAN HERO #1335236/26/05; 22:31:46

It is NOT a surprise that YOU would disagree with what NOAM CHOMSKY has to say. Having been in disagreement with some of your previous postings I'd say your reply was par for the course - and expected.

That is - -you're quite happy to bury your head like an ostrich when it comes to critisism of your Country or Leader whether common sense says it's justified critisism or not.

So it's not worth talking - -OK?

Dollar Bill.,.#1335246/26/05; 22:49:08

If the united nations are going to grow up to be the controllers of the global military, if the un is going to grow up to be the administrators of the new world order financial arrangement, they will have to outgrow the immaturity.
Who is going to hand them control when they are so pathetic at this point?
You have any kids? Isnt it obvious when they arent ready for some things?
What country, pick one around the globe, what country, having the opportunity to provide global currency, global military, what country, if was in that position, do you think would stand the greatest chance of actually give it up?
Only the US.
Maybe the lord decided he just wanted the maximum amount of help to go around. How do you get there without doing some superman thing where you just come all almighty and tell everyone how to do it?
But would that work? No, people have to walk as people in directions and find there way even if the goal is the lords wish.
Do I know if it is the lords wish? No I do not, and that is what I have been looking for to see.
Getting this far is making me think we are going to get there. Do I see problems for local economy? Oh yeah, do I see solutions? Not yet. Are there some? Hey, maybe this global money allowance system will have unintended (we think) Positive consequences.
Oh hell, the devil has to have his hand in it, so, chomsky gets to be "influential".
Glad I am not a darkened one clinging to his -vision-.
If you read history, you can see how really tough life was just a very short time ago for ALL people.
Now, today, honestly, what consitituets "tough" in your day?
Tivo shuts down?
How did we come so far? So fast? And with whose help?
Dare we try to dismiss as "unprovable" the lord who we should instead try to earn his respect?

Dollar Bill.,.#1335256/26/05; 23:25:30

Pritcho, these posts are NOT aimed at you. At all.

Will it be the case that one who is not the lords is the one to tell us all about reality?
Chomsky, brings false light, and a false vision.
My personal hero is a local man who died fighting tyranny in defense his family, my family, and the community of free people everywhere. Including the country of Iraq, a country that is DEFENDING ITSELF.
Lying by media does not change that reality.
How would that faction sweet talk saddam and the taliban?
Like they did.
George Bush is the free familymans freind, defender, and hero.
Hissing and spitting wont change that reality.
I cannot change the human condition here. My generation cannot change the human condition here. My kids, grandkids, ect, will all face the same basic stuff. Always the devil is there to challenge us as we walk in and out of fog.
Religious speakers also walk in and out of the fog, and yet thier inablilty to admit that, or to fix that, helps give us the human condition we have here. I do know that a large part of the present faction thinks the only thing between us and peace on earth, is religion.
So, they try to do what they can to destroy religion and I dont think the evidence is that hard to see.
I suppose chomsky just assumes that the hutus and the tutsis are unique in that they fight about who is taller.
Or, that is one of thier real issues.
No, they just remind us that the devil will get us to fight over anything, and no organization of human construction is immune to the devils workings.
I went to the Princeton Theological library, and looked up the section on the devil factor.
It was a lot smaller than it warrents!
My local hero left his 6 year old son.
I cannot imagine that loss. If it was a loss that this faction claims is a wasted effort, I would see that.
What I do see, and clearly, is that liars, based on piss poor logic, try to rewrite reality, and distort the truth.
Oh, yeah, it is only too easy to say "I want peace in MY time". What about that child that is now 6? If my local hero and I do not stand up to confront the dangers of our time, we leave a greater mess for our child.
He fought for the sake of his son.
Of course he didnt want to die.
No patriot does.
It is not nationalism. It is not throwing yourself away for some stupid empire. It is not being the pawn of currency warfare. saddam and even more so, his sons, were the enemies of free men everywhere. Especially the men in thier own neighborhood.
They tortured the family man down the street, they raped his wife and daughters, they killed children in front of their parents, cruelly, and not once, but continuously.
Where are the --free saddam-- demonstrations in Iraq?
Who the hell liked him? What was legitimate about the evil tyrant family? The traitors of America have no honor, and have no reasonable place to stand. Their arguements use lies because there is not honest basis for thier darkness.

PRITCHORE NOAM CHMSKY - - - Check out this web page #1335266/26/05; 23:44:46

SNIP - -
Summary: Noam Chomsky is demonized by people to justify U.S. reprisals against Arab terrorists, and other U.S. government initiatives, but how can I know if he really is unpatriotic unless I do many hours of research? How do you know whom to believe on issues of which you have no direct knowledge?

Sensible reasoning consists of more than pages full of hyperbolic language. A good essay will admit the strongest arguments from the opposing position. Dwayne Holmes and I are starting a new web magazine called DecentAmericans.Us [Note: on 01May2005 we cancelled DecentAmericans.Us because of lack of public interest in what we were doing], in which we will feature our own writing, invited authors (some of whom we strongly disagree with), and links to well-reasoned essays by other authors. We will publish writing which avoids the sort of extreme language which is used against Noam Chomsky.

PRITCHOWHO SHOULD WE BLAME FOR - -- - - - - ? #1335276/26/05; 23:52:45

This guy is brilliant - -A clear thinker --A good read.

The Bush administration, along with Clear Channel and Fox News and the other organizations that pander to the average idiot will treat this situation using the same approach that got us into this mess in the first place: by conducting a witch-hunt to put everyone (in this case, everyone in the U.S. military) into two groups -- the Bad People, and everyone else. Then they will punish the Bad People in a dramatic way, and wash their hands clean of the whole thing. Then it's back to church to sing about how morally upright they all are.

Fundamentalist religions -- and not just fundamentalist Christianity, but it is fundamentalist Christianity that wields the most sway in the United States -- are based, by definition of the word "fundamentalist", on a simple, straightforward, and uncluttered philosophy about morality and the nature of God, and a tendency toward a literal interpretation of scripture: the world was literally created in six days; Adam and Eve were literally the first two humans on earth; all of the animals in the world are literally descended from the animals on Noah's ark (which sailed on a sea that literally covered the entire surface of the earth).

Answers to moral questions tend to be grouped into large, easily defined categories that uneducated people can understand. Under this regime it only takes a few moments to decide whether an entire category of behavior is right or wrong: gay marriage is against the natural order; flag burning is unpatriotic; all violent people who dislike America are terrorists. It is a system of belief that appeals to unsophisticated people who have no time to understand the nuances of a particular problem. The more things that can be put into a single category, the sooner everyone can get back to watching television.

American fundamentalist Christian organizations seek out these people, and encourage them to believe that their simple-minded approach to problem solving is the very thing that places them at the apex of morally correct thinking. The faster they can come up with answers to complex moral problems, the more certain they are that their brand of morality must be correct: the fact that their analysis was uncluttered with exceptions and contradictions is proof, as far as they are concerned, that the analysis must be correct.

GoldendomeSirs Pritcho & Dollar B.#1335286/27/05; 00:11:10

Lest you lose open forum privileges for all, I would like to suggest that you discontinue your argument until at least next weekend. Remember? Noon on Friday until noon on Sunday?
SundeckMore sundry comments: MK 's Market Making points; Chomping on Chomsky and is The Dollar billing its creditors?#1335306/27/05; 00:40:35

@MK et al.,

Very nice array of points, Sir MK. A couple of comments/questions:

a) You said:
"If the Chinese are closed out on this, I would suspect a severe reaction at some point down the road."

If one were to be just a little bit cynical and suggest that the US is playing hard-ball in the ME over energy-security, then the Chinese are being just a little bit naughty in bidding for UNOCAL - downright provocative, in fact...sort of like the US pouring oil in at the top while China is punching holes in the barrel and taking it out at the bottom. With their dollar reserves they could buy about 30 UNOCAL's at the price bid...of course, that number will come down as POO rises and the dollar declines (against commodities) and the market capitalisation of companies like UNOCAL increases. Hence, there is some urgency for China to spend early. I suspect China will be "closed out", as you put it...perhaps with a lot of argybargy to and fro. Certainly an interesting diplomacy challenge.

b) What of Japan though (your eighth point)? I don't recall it being in the news lately as a corporate raider of note, and its dollar reserves are enormous, and its energy/resource needs are just as pressing, if not more so than China's. Of course, the Japan/USA relationship is a little different...I suspect Japan is bankrolling the US in exchange for defacto military security...Uncle Sam "billing" its major creditor, if you like?

@Dollar Bill and PRITCHO

Chomsky...a formidable, scientific intellect in (one of) the land(s) of free speech... Let's try to keep it that way.

Scientific and intellectual ability and political nous are frequently miles is all about honesty and truth and observational integrity, and politics is all about expediency by whatever means are available...

I don't know if Chomsky would have made a good politician. I am a little more convinced that George Bush would not have made a very good scientist...

Have a nice day...


GoldiloxOpen Forum closed#1335316/27/05; 00:41:06

@ Goldendome

You are correct, and I will understand if my tardy reply is deleted by ADMIN.

Apologies to the site!


GoldiloxChina and oil#1335326/27/05; 00:53:37

@ Sundeck,

I heartily agree with your observations on the Chinese motives for the CNOOC bid. Naughty, indeed! A little winking and flexing in the mirror, perhaps?

With the recent hullabaloo about Japan's war crimes in China, it seems a bit of a slap to them, as well, since Pearl Harbor was "inspired" by the cutoff of oil to Imperial Japan.

China has been scurrying about signing contracts with Venezuela and Iran, thus the offer for UnoCal seems like a move to "cover all bases".

In the annals of world chess, this move ranks up there with Saddam's request to the UN for payment in Euros, but probably a lot better politically defended.

GoldiloxDX#1335336/27/05; 01:05:14

@ Gandalf,

The DX seems to be setting up for more Monday morning waterfall action, but with gold seeming to "decouple", I wonder what the reaction effect will be.

I hope the mutts are "at the ready"!

GoldiloxDesperate to Withdraw?#1335346/27/05; 01:18:04


With GW giving a speech on Iraq tomorrow night, we are hearing from our highly credible sources in Baghdad that the US is desperate to cobble up a withdrawal strategy:


This gets us to the latest notes from HPH:

Note the days that this occurred. And when it is now appearing. We will see much fallout from this. Many of the current supporters of Bush will see this as a sell-out. And this will likely rile the markets...if the US concedes what happens to Iraqi oil and Haliburton contracts? And how do the political class justify the deaths and other crimes to come from their action?

Curious though that it took place on the 3rd and again the 13th.

Rumsfeld: U.S. Met With Iraq Insurgents By THOMAS WAGNER, Associated Press Writer1 hour, 53 minutes ago Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld acknowledged Sunday that U.S. officials have met with insurgents in Iraq, after a British newspaper reported that two such meetings took place recently at a villa north of Baghdad. Insurgent commanders "apparently came face to face" with four American officials during meetings on June 3 and June 13 at a villa near Balad, about 25 miles north of Baghdad, The Sunday Times reported.

Unfortunately, now that this kind of thing kicks out into the public, it will fuel the will of the insurgents and will make a "victory" all that much harder for the US to attain - provided someone can show us a definition for "victory" there that makes sense beyond fattening up corporate coffers and depressing unemployment...


Recognizing UrbanSurvival as an unofficial "underground" source, the field reporters have a stellar record so far.

I post this not as commentary on the war, but its potential market effects.

TopazS-o-StockMarket.#1335356/27/05; 01:42:27

They've got but 3 days to get the Buck down below 85 and deliver a windfall... they can't, can they?

Bonds (yield) are getting by on snorkel gear at this time, any lower and full-blown scuba rig is needed ...requiring a return to the surface... a quick trip down to 85 and rapid return is not "completely" out of the question.

Au - imo, it'll flop with the Currencies.
Ag - Let's not go there!!

SundeckDiscretion#1335366/27/05; 03:10:27


"Discretion is the better part of valour."

I hope someone pulled W aside and whispered this to him in both ears.

Seriously, the US has so much to offer the world without Ramboistic displays...for Pete's sake, they created The Blues (ok, with a bit of help from Africa), they were the first to the Moon and the IT explosion is ongoing... Why NOT rest on the laurels for a bit?


SundeckOnly the good die young#1335376/27/05; 03:39:02

I am waiting for my potatoes to roast in the oven and listening to the **golden** voice of Eva Cassidy on CD...what a great loss; only the good die young...


White RoseI disagree with George Ure (Goldilox msg#: 133534)#1335386/27/05; 05:20:14

1) Bush's speech at 8pm Tuesday night is being broadcast at a major US military base (Fort Bragg). You do not go to a military base to announce a cowardly series of negotiations with your enemy. It is far more likely to be the announcement of a war on Iran.
2) Perhaps the negotiations were intended to stay secret and were designed to facilitate the war on Iran. After all, most of the Insurgents are Sunni, and Iran is Shiite.
3) I will still lay even money that a new war will start around 6:15 Eastern Time on Tuesday.
4) Watch the oil market. Negotiations with insurgents would imply a lower oil price. War with Iran implies a higher price. Which direction are you seeing?

canamamiReply to Pritcho - somewhat OT#1335396/27/05; 07:14:40

I'm not going to respond in kind to your comments, partly because when I composed the post I was indeed wound up by a Washington Times article that the Pentagon now believes China will invade Taiwan within two years.

But I do have some replies.

Why should China be allowed to invade Taiwan? They have only de facto been part of the the same country for 4 years out of the last 110 years (i.e, 1945-49). How is it RACIST to want to allow the Taiwanese to deter an invasion; both groups are ethnically Chinese (though the native Taiwanese may have a somewhat different view of themselves). Why should we allow a democracy of 30 million to be conquered by a non-democratic country? Would you also abandon Australia and New Zealand, if they were attacked? Why defend Australia if not Taiwan? Perhaps the response to that question might reveal something akin to "racism".

Does anyone really believe the US would be in the Middle East now but for 9/11? Evil attacked your shores, and continues to wish you ill. That's why you Americans must act vigourously to save yourselves before it's too late. In human history, tyranny is the norm. For all its faults, the US has always been a great beacon of a better way.

The $US role as a reserve currency was not part of an evil design; it arose haphazard after the War because only the $US could fulfill that role. The gold exchange was a "freebee" add-on by the US at the end of the Bretton Woods negotiations; the world would have accepted $US hegemony without the gold exchange provision. Moreover, no country has suffered more from the hegemony than the US itself - you don't make very much anymore, and your economy is wildly distorted.

Look, like all great powers, the US has blood and some injustices on its hands. But, relative to other great powers, the US is positively saintly. Heaven help us if the US ever ceases to be the dominant military power. Be careful of what you wish for.

Cavan Mancanamami#1335406/27/05; 07:58:01

"Root cause" analysis is always prudent and a necessary prerequisite for problem resolution. Asking "why" is the first step upon the path to understanding. Yes, 150,000 innocent human beings lost as collateral damage in the hunt for WMD is indeed a few pints of blood. As we try to "save ourselves", humanity and life hangs in the balance.
GoldiloxUre's view of Bragg Speech#1335416/27/05; 08:08:19

@ White Rose,

You posted George's speech analysis, and stated that you disagree.

I'm curious. What do you see instead?

GoldiloxMore Root Cause#1335426/27/05; 08:37:56

@ Canamami,

Your Quote: :Does anyone really believe the US would be in the Middle East now but for 9/11?"

ignores the fact that 9/11 evidence has been so not forthcoming and distorted that no one really knows who truly engineered the deed. Nine of the accused "martyrs" are alive and well in Paris and other locations. Reincarnation - or just a case of "mistaken identity"?

It's been widely shown that Saddam (a secular leader) had little or no contact with the religious radicals (who hated him as much as anyone) that were blamed for 9/11, so the above quote fails everywhere except on the FOX surface. In fact, the Pax Americana documents planning the invasion of Iraq were drawn up in 1998, long before the 9/11 trigger event.

As we have seen obvious non-participation in African civil strife that has left millions dead, one must surmise that decisions about involvement require that strategic demand be high enough - political ideology alone is not sufficient.

The Taiwan question is going to grow in relevance, but will the western oil powers risk all for it, or will it be "negotiated" into a RE deal a la Hong Kong?

China's rather boisterous oil activities are very likely fomented to position them well in said negotiations as at least a secondary motivation.

GoldiloxAnother Interesting "Conundrum"#1335436/27/05; 08:42:21

We see the Dx fall some today without contrary reaction in the PMs. More evidence of "decoupling"?
White RosePrez speech and George Ure#1335446/27/05; 09:00:51

Things can bounce around in these web forums.

1) On Sunday, George Ure's site suggested the speech will be about peace with the insuregents

2) This morning, Goldilox reprinted the Sunday column

3) I posted disagreement, and then decided to e-mail my comments on this forum to George Ure. He immediately printed my comments.

4) Now it looks like I say "I disagree" when my comments are in both places.

5) George thinks things are leaning towards some sort of peace deal. I say things are leaning towards war with Iran. We could be both right (the US negotiating peace with the insurgents to allow for war).

6) As it stands, George still thinks peace is coming, and I still see more war. We will see. I suggest we all get our ducks in a row.

canamamiReply to Goldilox#1335456/27/05; 09:01:09

Re Iraq - Yes, the stated reasons for going in do seem to be shaky. Going in under incorrect pretences with incoherent objectives has undermined the whole operation.

The thing is, if Saddam had simply contented himself with bullying Kuwait for concessions without actually invading, he'd be sitting pretty right now. The whole chain of events re Iraq would not have occurred, and he'd probably be a US ally in the region. He could have moved to Euro settlement with impunity, if he wished.

He was primarily a secular leader. However, he apparently had moved to a more Islamist stance in the years following the First Gulf War, such that he was less of a secular leader than before.

USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc.FREE Gold Information Packet...#1335466/27/05; 09:40:46

Dollar Bill.,.#1335476/27/05; 09:43:35

Goldendome, I will stick to scheduleing. I read Pritcho too often to get myself to think I was argueing with him. I think he makes a great discussion mate. We are reacting to the world round us, and it is a wild world. I did feel a bit, hmmm, I cant find the adjective, I did start the day wanting MK's vision, and I was not at all itching to lay out a nwo vision that I apparently have.
I hope it does not wreck the possibility of MK laying out his thoughts on the various topics. Well, I know it wont, and when he next posts, is up to his self generated impulses. I know MK has great vision, and this is a wild and unexplored terrain we are in now. Randy too of course, and the whole dang crew here.
The financial dealings of the world, I would say, is perhaps the greatest man made show on earth right now.
And viewing it from USAGOLD is just a real fortune.

GoldiloxSpeech#1335486/27/05; 09:45:36

@ White Rose,

Thanks very much for the clarification.

TownCrierSpot gold predicted to double in coming months#1335496/27/05; 10:10:19

June 27, 2005

Speakers at the recent New York Institutional Gold Conference predict that the price of spot gold could get as high as $850 a troy ounce in coming months from its current level slightly in excess of $425.

Some economists contend this means investors are leaning toward the precious metal, and not the dollar, as their speculative hedge against future inflation.

The last time gold got anywhere near the projected high was in the late 1970s when out-of-control inflation, unrest in the Middle East and an oil crisis pushed the precious metal from $150 to $810.

...It is oil prices that are really making the gold market look like 1970s redux, with crude oil prices hovering near $60 a barrel. ..."Middle East nations are getting more petrol dollars as (oil) prices rise, and they're not putting it back into paper assets," writes Charles de Vaulx, manager of the First Eagle Gold Fund. "They're trying to protect the value of their profits—just like in the 1970s—so they're buying gold."

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TownCrierUS imbalances could disrupt forex markets - BIS#1335506/27/05; 10:26:03

BASEL, Switzerland, June 27 (Reuters) - The U.S. current account deficit is unsustainable and the continuing lack of policy response could disrupt markets, the Bank for International Settlements said in a report on Monday.

In its annual report, the Basel-based BIS said disorderly currency movements caused by imbalances could damage the dollar's prominent position as a reserve currency.

"...the continuing absence of a policy response increases the chances of a disorderly market adjustment."

"Disorderly currency movements could alter the roles of the U.S. dollar and euro as reserve currencies, with further unpredictable outcomes," the BIS said.

"The dollar zone has been shrinking, and any acceleration of this could eventually give rise to portfolio imbalance in both private and official sectors," the BIS said.

The BIS added: "The fact that creditors to the United States bear the market risk associated with dollar depreciation raises the possibility that they could try to cover their positions in times of stress.

^------(from url)-----^

Who's your Friend? Having thus been duly cautioned against an unprecedented shake-up, the task of diversification for personal financial security is now up to you. Choose gold. USAGOLD-Centennial stands ready to help.


Goldilox"Islamist Stance" and Taiwan#1335516/27/05; 10:27:16

@ Canamami,

Your quote: "However, he apparently had moved to a more Islamist stance in the years following the First Gulf War, such that he was less of a secular leader than before."

. . . is an interesting hypothesis, but hasn't survived the scrutiny of post-war investigations. The evidence is stronger that he was the puppet who said ""NO" to his masters once too often.

More important is the realization that invasion of Iraq was predicated on its strategic importance, as opposed to the lessor strategic targets but much worse human rights crises in Africa.

My reason for continuing the discussion (carefully) is to suggest that the Taiwan issue is much more convoluted than the Iraq question by virtue of the huge trade relations with China. Do we sacrifice Wal-Mart and 80% of tech manufacturing to save face in Taiwan?

In fact, judging the tone of the press and Congress, China's effect on the oil demand curve is an even greater concern than Iraq's effect on the supply curve.

The Chinese are proving to be much stronger chess opponents than Saddam, and one would question whether the Taiwan situation will get anything near the response of the Kuwait invasion. Thus my suggestion of a Hong Kong style "RE deal".

canamamiGoldilox - Taiwan#1335526/27/05; 11:42:42

I fear you are right that the world (including the US) will abandon Taiwan to its fate. I don't think it will be primarily for economic reasons, but because it matters more to the Chinese than to the West, and the US will not want to risk a nuclear war over Taiwan. That's why it would make sense to smuggle nukes and delivery systems to Taiwan - let the choice be theirs how to deal with the mainland, and what risks to take. After all, it's their freedom, not ours.
canamamiGoldilox - Saddam#1335536/27/05; 11:48:17

I didn't say that Saddam was in tight with al Quada, but rather that he was promoting himself as an Islamic as opposed to a secular leader, in the period after the Gulf War.

The US has got itself in a pickle trying to play the political game in that part of the world. Better simply to let all parties know: "Leave us alone, or we'll wipe you off the face of the Earth, no holds barred". In other words, update Eisenhower's policies to the present day.

Cavan Mancanamami#1335546/27/05; 12:03:33

"Seems to be a bit shaky"; no kidding? SH was a a US ally. We made him what he was and maintained him in the region.
TownCrierEye on China: One currency, two views#1335556/27/05; 12:32:25

June 28, 2005 -- The single greatest issue facing anybody trading or investing in China now is whether the decade-long link between the US dollar and the yuan will be dismantled.

...the peg has become the focus for US politicians wishing to protect the jobs of their constituents and to reduce the United States' US$700 billion trade deficit.

It has also become a test of how China's leaders, President Hu Jintao and Premier Wen Jiabo, can resist US pressure.

The US knows that if the yuan is made to strengthen, more US dollars will be needed to acquire Chinese goods. More expensive Chinese goods should mean reduced demand, thereby trimming the US deficit with China, giving local goods a better chance.

However, it is possible to accuse the US of bad faith. Some argue that a fairer and less confrontational way to reduce the trade deficit would be by signalling to US citizens - through much higher interest rates - to consume fewer foreign goods.

...There is only one problem with this argument, but is a big one. It would offend the US consumer - politically a difficult option.

...Were the debate to remain in the economic sphere, Chinese concerns would be limited. But, of course, there is a political dimension and the precedents make China profoundly uneasy.

Take the experience of Indonesia's former leader Suharto. Many Chinese believe the Indonesian rupiah, which was also pegged to the US dollar, was forced off the peg by the intervention of the International Monetary Fund, to bring about the economic collapse of the country and, hence, regime change. The plan, if indeed there was one, worked beautifully: widespread resentment in the wake of the bank failures and capital flight triggered by the devaluation of the rupiah forced Suharto out of power in 1998.

The Chinese will also have seen the effect currency devaluation had on Japan. In the 1980s, the US was facing many of the problems it faces now, including spiralling trade and budget deficits.

In 1986, the US convened the world's No 2 and No 3 economies, Japan and Germany, and told them to find ways to shrink the US trade deficit ... or else.

... Japan (Germany demonstrated more spine) agreed to help reduce the US deficit by boosting domestic consumption. Japan slashed interest rates and printed money at twice the growth rate of GDP, thereby unleashing a terrific bubble. As is well known, that bubble detonated in 1990 causing a crash that is still reverberating throughout the Japanese economy.

If that's the way the US treated its most loyal east Asian ally, the Chinese have every reason to be concerned about how the US will use economic policy against them...

^-----(see url for full article)----^

For security in these times of uncertainty, choose gold.


TownCrierDollar slips against euro amid record crude prices#1335566/27/05; 12:46:34

NEW YORK, June 27 (Reuters) - The dollar and yen both slipped against the euro on Monday on concerns that record high oil prices could threaten economic growth...

The yen was also hurt, edging nearer to an eight-month low against the dollar, after China said it would not be browbeaten into revaluing its yuan currency peg.

"The Chinese confirmed they like the idea of a revaluation but they will not be pushed around by the United States," said Tim O'Sullivan, chief dealer at Gain Capital in Warren, New Jersey.

Oil prices remained one of the big trading drivers on Monday, analysts and dealers said, with crude leaping 1 percent to a record above $60 a barrel.

The rise in energy prices sparked concerns from the world's most powerful central bankers, meeting in Basel for the annual meeting of the Bank for International Settlements...

The euro was ... helped by comments from Qatar's central bank governor, who told Reuters at the weekend that the oil-producing country was considering shifting some of its largely dollar-denominated currency reserves back to the euro given the currency's fall this year.

^----(see url)----^

With oil at $61 and currency squabbles showing no end in sight, don't let yourself be bullied by inflation. Choose gold as your principal savings, securely preserving your purchasing power.


GoldiloxSmuggling Nukes#1335576/27/05; 13:43:54

@ Canamami,

Smuggling nukes is a really dangerous and short-sighted game. All too often, the regimes the CIA has supported turned on them in the long run. I'd hate to have those nukes become the "preferred currency" of regime change anywhere in the world. If the Taiwanese don't use them, they are likely to become property of the Chinese Army at some point.

We trained Al Qeada to do a job on the USSR in Afghanistan and "according to secret intelligence", they used that training to engineer 9/11 (something I am not completely convinced of). Reagan called these guys "heroic freedom fighters" and dedicated a Shuttle mission to them. Now they are enemy #1 of the free world. There's just too much flip-flopping of who's friendly and who's not to derive any warm fuzzies from this dangerous trade!

GoldiloxEQ watch#1335586/27/05; 13:59:45

The latest surprise comes in the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, a little too close to the Canary Islands for comfort. Of major concern is the volcanic lip hanging off La Palma, which has the potential to create a very large Tsunami if fractured.

Of course, a similar situation exists off shore from the constant flow of Kilauea, so neither ocean is exempt from this concern.

GoldiloxSpecs still driving rallies#1335596/27/05; 14:04:27

Oil crosses $60/bbl

Gold holds near $440/oz

GOOG crosses $300/share

Media pundits suggest FED sponsored liquidity is still active in the markets. I leave it to your imagination to decifer which market has the greatest "spec" participation.

Maybe everything going up is the best confirmation of "invisible inflafla".

TownCrierPssssst... a new Buyers' Group Special has just been born#1335606/27/05; 14:14:01

Wilhelm I gold 20 marks, plus an associated deal on gold 20 franc Napoleon III's.

Click url for more details.


USAGOLD Daily Market ReportPage Update!#1335616/27/05; 14:49:35">
The Daily Gold Market Report has been updated.

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Monday Market Excerpts

Gold steady ahead of Fed

June 27 (from DowJones) -- Gold futures finished with a tiny loss in New York on Monday when the market initially fell at least partly in reaction to the most recent Commitments of Traders data, but recovered most of a modest decline late in the day on short covering encouraged by ongoing strength in crude-oil prices, analysts and traders said.

The session was described as one of the quieter ones in a while. One trader suggested the metals might in a holding pattern ahead of a Federal Open Market Committee meeting on Wednesday and Thursday, while another suggested the inactivity could have been due to the expiration of the July options.

August gold dipped 30 cents to $441.70.

"We had two-way fund action," said Tom Boustead, metals analyst with Refco. "And dealers were selling into it." However, the metal did recover from a low of $440.10.

"That was (because of) the oil," said George Gero, senior vice president with Legg Mason Wood Walker. "People were covering their shorts, just in case." Shortly after gold closed, August crude was up 81 cents to $60.65.

Otherwise, both Boustead and a trader suggested that a modest amount of pressure might have come from the big jump in the net long position of large speculators, as reported in Friday's Commitment of Traders data. The large specs' net long position now stands at 108,510 lots. "A lot of speculative buyers have entered quickly," said Boustead.

----(see url for full news, 24-hr headlines)---

mdgcTaiwan#1335626/27/05; 15:42:37

Canamami The people of Tawiwan are voting with their feet. About 1,000,000 of them now live on the mainland, about a half million in Shanghai alone. Some are there working for Tatiwan companies with operations on the mainland. Many are retired, and some just like the big city. The likelihood of war is in fact quite remote.
TownCrierEuro off highs but stays firm on talk of reserves diversification#1335636/27/05; 15:47:23

LONDON : The euro fell back off earlier highs but remained firm on talk of central banks diversifying their reserves away from dollars and into euros....

"The last couple of weeks have been very good for the dollar, but it didn't manage to hold below 1.20 against the euro last week and now we're seeing a bit of a pause," said Gary Noone, analyst at Informa Global Markets.

The euro moved higher earlier Monday on talk that Qatar's central bank may be looking to diversify its reserves away from dollars by buying euros, he said.

He also pointed to a comment over the weekend from a Japanese official suggesting that Japan may look to rebalance its foreign exchange reserves away from US dollars once the dollar is sufficiently strong to avoid any negative impact.

"All this has ignited concerns that central banks want to reallocate reserves towards the euro and away from the dollar," Noone said.

^----(from url)----^

Will reiterate what I have said before.

Given the sticky political situation that has been caused by the "strong" (reserve dollar) structure of the international monetary system, we can estimate that European politicians are not overly eager to tread that same path -- having the torch passed to the euro region as the bearer of reserve currency status (with attendant non-competitive effect on export sector).

Given that central banks have demonstrated ample understanding regarding the breaks and/or acceleration than can applied to gold capital gains on the basis of leasing activity which they do have the power to control, the trail ahead should begin to look clear even to a novice hiker.

When a central banker evaluates the best structure for the CB's balance sheet, he has every reason to be impressed by the combined effect of the gold leasing curbs of the Washington Agreement together with the gains in average annual gold price over each of the past three years of 14.4 percent, 17.3 percent, and 12.6 percent.

Compared to these capital gains, the alternative interest yields on government bonds look trivial at best, and the attendant political and depreciation risks look worrisome on top of it all.

Therefore, in light of political realities and sound economics, it becomes an easy and prudential decision to consider a realignment of the primary reserve structure from one centered on floating U.S. dollars and dollar-denominated bonds to one centered on floating (mark-to-market) non-leased gold.

It would be against the market value of this asset base that each central bank would issue the high-powered monetary base which is put into full popular use by commercial banks.

Adjustments to the 'permanent" money supply (similar to the Fed buying or selling Treasuries outright in this current era) would subsequently be done effectively through either decisions against gold's revaluation account (whether or not to monetize capital gains) or though open market gold purchases or sales.

Fine tuning of monetary policy would likely continue as presently done -- with marginal lending or refinancing operations conducted repurchase and reverse-repo agreements at a target rate against politically appropriate collateral such as mortgage-backed securities.

A bold new world with a value upon gold that you will probably simply have to see (experience) to believe.


MKSundeck#1335646/27/05; 16:47:26

Thank you for your well-thought out comments. I took particular notice of this:

"With their dollar reserves they could buy about 30 UNOCAL's at the price bid...of course, that number will come down as POO rises and the dollar declines (against commodities) and the market capitalisation of companies like UNOCAL increases. Hence, there is some urgency for China to spend early. I suspect China will be "closed out", as you put it...perhaps with a lot of argybargy to and fro. Certainly an interesting diplomacy challenge."

In the modern art of war, one need not send a conquering army. A team of accountants will do. The agressive nation state simply acquires its adversary. War over. If China can acquire 30 Unocals today, how many will it be able to acquire five years from now? Ten years from now?

On the subject of Japan, I got a bid ahead of myself. I'll just say that Japan is likely to be watching the Unocal deal with a great deal of interest.

If this route is roadblocked, it will send a very negative message to those holding the dollar. What good is it to build up a boatload of dollar reserves only to find that you can't acquire anything with it? If on the other hand the door is opened to acquisitions of U.S.-based companies, we could see a wholesale change in the make-up of corporate America. (This is the same sort of thing Putin is facing in Russia.) I suspect that the former is a more likely outcome than the latter.

Isn't it odd that the East would now be looking to the West for an Open Door policy??

Gold is the unassailable alternative in a financial world gone awry. These are dangerous times. One mis-step -- one wrong signal -- here and the whole financial system could come unglued.

Great Albino BatTowncrier: "Everything is relative!"#1335656/27/05; 17:49:32

That's the thought that crossed my mind reading your post:

"Given the sticky political situation that has been caused by the "strong" (reserve dollar) structure of the international monetary system, we can estimate that European politicians are not overly eager to tread that same path -- having the torch passed to the euro region as the bearer of reserve currency status (with attendant non-competitive effect on export sector)."

Remember that Switzerland some 25 years or so ago, actually imposed a TAX on Swiss Francs held in Switzerland by foreigners. They did NOT WANT the whole world holding their money as a reserve; their economy could not accomodate that, the strength of their money would have killed their exports.

Now, the case of Europe, as you make it out, might be quite similar: not even Europe, with a Euro in which so many Europeans countries participate, can withstand a world demand for its money as a reserve. As you point out, it will kill its exports - just as the dollar reserve system has killed US manufacturing and exports.

So, all is relative - except GOLD! That's the only numeraire that can take on the whole world - at the right price! - with no harm to anyone's exports.


DruidCountdown to Iran ... and Unprecedented Spikes in Oil and Gold Prices#1335666/27/05; 18:52:52


"Background: On June 7, 1981, in a surprise air attack the Israeli Air Force using F-15 and F-16 fighter jets destroyed Iraq's Osirak nuclear reactor located 30 kilometers south of Baghdad. Fast-forward 20 years later. Meir Dagan, the Chief of Mossad (an Israeli intelligence and counter terrorism agency), reveals to parliament members in his inaugural appearance before the Israeli Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee that Iran is close to the "point of no return" and that the specter of Iranian possession of nuclear weapons is the greatest threat to Israel since its inception. In a 2002 address to the nation, U.S. President George W. Bush called Iran, Iraq and North Korea an "axis of evil".

During a 2003 visit to the United States, Israel's Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz stated "under no circumstances would Israel be able to tolerate nuclear weapons in Iranian possession." Six weeks earlier, Mossad had revealed plans for preemptive attacks by F-16 bombers on Iranian nuclear sites.

In September 2004, Iran rejected the International Atomic Energy Agency's call for closing down its nuclear fuel production program, which many in the U.S. and Israel believe to be linked to a covert nuclear weapons program. Iran then test fired a ballistic missile with sufficient range to hit targets in Israel as well as U.S. military installations in Iraq and throughout the Middle East.

What follows is a chronology of signs and events over the past few months pointing to an imminent conflict with Iran and, as a result, the potential interruption of oil flowing from the Gulf region.

February 2005: Former U.N. Chief Weapons inspector in Iraq (1991-1998) Scott Ritter, appearing with journalist Dahr Jamail in Washington State, dropped a shocking bombshell in a talk delivered to a packed house in Olympia's Capitol Theater. The ex-Marine turned UNSCOM weapons inspector said that U.S. President George W. Bush has "signed off" on Pentagon plans to have military capability in place by June 2005 to launch a massive aerial attack against Iran. Tehran responded that it would retaliate, if attacked, in the form of ballistic missile strikes directed against Israel. These attacks could also target U.S. military facilities in the Persian Gulf. President Bush followed this stating, "The notion that the United States is getting ready to attack Iran is simply ridiculous." He quickly added, "Having said that, all options are on the table.""

Druid: An excellent read about what might be transpiring literally at any moment regarding confrontation with Iran.

TownCrierECB President Trichet: Monetary policy in EMU - views and challenges#1335676/27/05; 19:08:50

24 June 2005

...Good and promising practices or policies can be better identified and more widely implemented, while less successful or ill-designed economic policies are easier to recognise.

I am fully aware that it is not easy to implement structural reforms and consolidate government budgets because of the fact that the public opinion is sometimes not fully convinced that everybody would benefit from these reforms. The ECB, for its part, is not lecturing anybody, but considers itself part of the necessary process of awareness raising, of tireless explanation. We all need to explain to the citizens of Europe that policies which enhance competition, competitiveness and flexibility contribute to higher employment and will ultimately improve prospects for real wage developments, growth and consolidation of government budgets.

^----(from url)----^

Just a nice soundbite.


Dollar Bill.,.#1335686/27/05; 19:09:53

MK, thanks, Just found your 8 point message.
Now to digest.

Bulldogiran#1335696/27/05; 19:23:01

Perhaps when Bush addresses the nation on Tuesday night from Fort Bragg he will be announcing that Israel just bombed nuclear sites in Iran and have asked the U.S. for support in the area...
FlaccusBush-Tuesday#1335706/27/05; 19:26:11

It will be a pep rally. If it were serious, it would come from the Oval Office.
Cavan ManFlaccus#1335716/27/05; 19:58:07

You are right. It would be the height of folly to attack Iran and have them come storming over the Iraq border to attack a US force that would be inadequate to handle the onslaught. Reminds one of the Korean War. Unless the US is prepared to exercise the nuclear option which would assure Iranian compliance (and a likely global war though perhaps good fodder for the evangelicals), I view any talk of Iran's demise as a sovereign nation to be wrong footed and scare mongering at best. The reasons to own physical gold are legion and monetary in nature.

Whither common sense @ this forum? Will the chicken littles carry the day?

SundeckBush - Tuesday#1335726/27/05; 20:16:51

@Flaccus, Cavan Man et al.,

My guess is Bush will announce a "staged withdrawal" by allied forces in exchange for a "staged reduction" in hostilities by the Iraqi resistance (whose titles will be changed from "terrorists" and "insurgents" to "moderate elements amongst the Sunni populace"). The final deal to be worked out pending progress in the staged reduction of conflict. Someone else can fill in the blank squares...

Impact on gold, dollar and oil? Oil down, dollar stable, gold stable...though I may be wrong.

Just guessin'...definitely NO inside information!


Dollar Bill.,.#1335736/27/05; 20:50:05

would the proof of the nwo, or the fate of the world, rest on the long bond? If, or rather, when, greenspan stops the short term interest rate rise, and all factors say the long should rise, and doesnt, is that the evidence?
If it does rise, well, collapse here we come, if it doesnt, despite a worsened situation, despite an iran war, ect, arent we then, officially, in nwoland?
Is the long bond the one key thing? For nwo?
Since everyone is speculating......I vote that irael not attack till after the summer driving fun, and before winter.
So, hmmmm, how about sept 11?
Shall we have a iran bomb date guessing contest?
Maybe just on the weekends?

PRITCHORE IRAN & PRE-EMPTIVE STRIKES - - -#1335746/27/05; 21:36:49

Having read all of the previous posts on the above subject it is MOST DISTURBING that not ONE said how cowardly & despicable such action would be.

We even have Bill wanting/suggesting a bomb Iran guessing contest! - I mean what's up here?

For my money Iran is a sovereign Nation & has as much right as Israel to have nuclear weapons - -if that is the intent. Why not?

To the best of my knowledge Iran has not invaded any of it's neighbours - - AND only had a war with Iraq at the instigation of the USA --who supplied in case yo'all forget
the chemical weapons supposedly used by Sadam - -oops!

IF Israel or the USA attacks Iraq it will NOT be because of any supposed nuclear weapons threat -it will be to get the OIL - - the other is just the excuse. IF Israel had to face inspection of it's WMD -- and was forced to pull it's head in --there might be a chance for peace in the Middle East. If Israel was forced (by withdrawal of USA funding)to make a just peace with the Paestinean owners of the land - - there could be peace. I'd vote for that but I don't see it happening.

A much higher GOLD price is too much to pay for lives already ruined and nonexistent futures.I challenge future posters on this subject to think hard before commenting.
Just who is the terrorist?

Great Albino BatGold: the battle rages...#1335756/27/05; 22:25:00

A look at the 24 hr Spot Gold chart reveals a heavy struggle going on, with quite a bit of volatility; the managers want it down, the market bids it up - back and forth, the last 24 hrs.